HUGE McAfee screw up

[BenBurch]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2010/04/massive-manual-pc-cleanup-triggered-by-mcafee-error/1

An automatic update has damaged millions of Windows PCs by seeing a normal standard system file as a virus, and deleting it.

And you ask me why I would rather use Macs or Linux or BSD or Opensolaris????

[JWideman]

Or you could just use a different anti-virus. McAfee is known to be garbage.

[Fnord]

I use Avira at home. Both the original package and the updates are free (ignore the upgrade popup).

[Policenaut]

It is also the affected companies fault for still using XP. Upgrade your OSes you greedy CEOs.

[BenBurch]

It is also the affected companies fault for still using XP. Upgrade your OSes you greedy CEOs.

XP is very stable. Sometimes the devil you know...

[Psi Baba]

A clear example of the "cure" being worse than the disease.

[CORed]

Or you could just use a different anti-virus. McAfee is known to be garbage.

My 6 year old Dell came with McAffee. I made the mistake of paying for it after the trial expired, but gave up on it at the next renewal because it would not install updates unless I was logged in as an administrator. I don't know if this particular "feature" was ever fixed, but it was enough for me to look elsewhere.

[GreNME]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2010/04/massive-manual-pc-cleanup-triggered-by-mcafee-error/1

An automatic update has damaged millions of Windows PCs by seeing a normal standard system file as a virus, and deleting it.

And you ask me why I would rather use Macs or Linux or BSD or Opensolaris????

http://image.grenme.com/thread/StrawMan.jpg

A more sensible argument to have made would have been something like "see why I use ClamAV / Avira / MSE / Kaspersky / Eset / etc. ?" instead of trying to make a platform argument out of it.

Interestingly, Windows XP (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2010-04-21-mcafee-antivirus_N.htm)-- you know, that version of Windows OS that's two versions behind-- seems to be the one that's having the svchost.exe deletion problem. Want to know why? The answer is simple: because even the "computer administrator" user doesn't have privileges to delete system files permanently like that in Vista and Win 7, and the privs required actually require more than a UAC prompt to perform such a task-- the user has to prompt so that SYSTEM (a pseudo-init would be the closest approximation for the *nix folk) can do it (and can't do it without a computer user accepting it). On top of that, Windows keeps shadow copies of its system files that it can restore in the event that one goes missing or is damaged. I'm not saying that a flub like the OP would be impossible on a Win 7 system, but it would be nearly (if not precisely) as difficult as it would be on a Mac system to do, and is unlikely to happen through stupidity like what McAffee did.

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt with facts. Feel free to resume the Platform Warz.

[GreNME]

XP is very stable.

No it's not. The build is stable on its own, but just like any other OS it gets bogged down over time without maintenance and cleaning. The only reason so many places are still using XP is because many software companies kicked their feet up and failed to deliver on Vista-capable enterprise software updates, and now that most of them are catching up the trickle-down of updating has yet to make it into the enterprise offices, which tend to be a year or two (or even three or more) behind the update cycle for most software development.

In other words: business IT tends to hate change. The current hope is that enterprises will upgrade to 64-bit while they leave XP behind, making the transition complete and the architecture move smoother than the last change (from 16-bit to 32-bit).

[whatthebutlersaw]

Yeah, we had that at work. IT sent round a memo saying we had virus. Turned out it was the McAffee. I was unaffected but some pcs broke down.

[shadron]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2010/04/massive-manual-pc-cleanup-triggered-by-mcafee-error/1

An automatic update has damaged millions of Windows PCs by seeing a normal standard system file as a virus, and deleting it.

And you ask me why I would rather use Macs or Linux or BSD or Opensolaris????

What - this couldn't possibly have happened on these other platforms? For what reason would you say this?

[CORed]

What - this couldn't possibly have happened on these other platforms? For what reason would you say this?

Well, because MacOs, UNIX and Linux never get viruses, never crash and never even have to be rebooted ... in fanboy fantasyland.

[Segnosaur]

And you ask me why I would rather use Macs or Linux or BSD or Opensolaris????
What - this couldn't possibly have happened on these other platforms? For what reason would you say this?
Every operating system will have security problems (even Macs/Linux). However, virus/worms/trojan horse problems are less likely to happen on those platforms, for a couple of reasons:

- Better security design - e.g. things like the IE browser seem to be tied a lot more into the Windows OS; Windows apps in the past have had 'unneeded' functionality, etc. (Some of these problems are due to Windows having to provide at least some backwards compatibility, but it still leaves security holes)

- More Windows machines makes the platform more attractive for virus developers, and makes it more likely that a Windows virus will be transmitted than a Linux/Max virus

Even with a 'good' virus scanner, there is no guarantee that your platform will be protected against the latest and greatest virus.

It may also be possible that since Linux/BSD (and to a certain extent Macs) are based on open-source software that there are more people able to seek out and fix security problems, although supporters of Windows will probably point out that it also makes it easier for evil hackers to find the security problems in the first place.

[BenBurch]

What - this couldn't possibly have happened on these other platforms? For what reason would you say this?

Because they are in such an extreme minority, people do not write viruses for them. Hence no viruses.

Not that it is impossible, just that they do not exist, and there is no looming prospect that they are about to, either.

[CORed]

Because they are in such an extreme minority, people do not write viruses for them. Hence no viruses.

Not that it is impossible, just that they do not exist, and there is no looming prospect that they are about to, either.

Mostly true. There have been viruses, worms, trojans, etc. written for many non-windows OS's, but there is nothing like the constant barrage of malware that you have to watch out for with Windows. That's the bad side of using the OS with the biggest market share. The good side is that you can be confident that just about any hardware you buy will work with Windows, and that there is a much wider variety of software available for Windows, whether commercial/proprietary, free as in beer proprietary, or open source.

A lot of the Mac and Linux fans and Microsoft haters, though tend to grossly exaggerate the faults of Windows, and the advantages of their favorite OS.

Of course, the reverse sometimes happens with Windows fans and Microsoft marketing people.

[Rolfe]

Light bulb comes on! Our computers crashed in a heap about 5 o'clock last night, and some people had a message about apparent virus attack.

I got to go home early on time!

Everything was still down this morning, and someone had to borrow my memory stick, get some sort of a patch, then go round every PC one at a time fixing them. The Centre Manager was attending a funeral today, and when she finally got back she couldn't use her PC because nobody had fixed it. It was bloody carnage.

We are all on XP and the virus protection is McAfee.

Rolfe.

[BenBurch]

Mostly true. There have been viruses, worms, trojans, etc. written for many non-windows OS's, but there is nothing like the constant barrage of malware that you have to watch out for with Windows. That's the bad side of using the OS with the biggest market share. The good side is that you can be confident that just about any hardware you buy will work with Windows, and that there is a much wider variety of software available for Windows, whether commercial/proprietary, free as in beer proprietary, or open source.

A lot of the Mac and Linux fans and Microsoft haters, though tend to grossly exaggerate the faults of Windows, and the advantages of their favorite OS.

Of course, the reverse sometimes happens with Windows fans and Microsoft marketing people.

Oh, I use Windows every single day, in fact, I am a windows device driver engineer. But I do not want it for my home machines, or for my netbook.

And because I know there is a very slight risk, I run clam antivirus on my machines. And it does a great job on catching all of the Windows malware that comes into my machines via email. This way, at least, I never pass it on.

[Policenaut]

I wonder how much more efficient companies would be if McAfee was uninstalled on all these corporate computers and a non-system resource hog antivirus was used instead. If these computers are still running XP the odds are they are using antique hardware by today's standards. They probably have the minimum amount of ram required to run XP and yet they are running McAfee which is notorious for slowing down systems.

[Segnosaur]

Mostly true. There have been viruses, worms, trojans, etc. written for many non-windows OS's, but there is nothing like the constant barrage of malware that you have to watch out for with Windows. That's the bad side of using the OS with the biggest market share. The good side is that you can be confident that just about any hardware you buy will work with Windows...

Not necessarily. It depends on the version of Windows, and what hardware you're trying to use with it.

For example, you may be out of luck if you're using the latest version of Windows but trying to use hardware that has only drivers for 'old' versions of Windows. Furthermore, you can sometimes run into situations where a recent version of Windows simply will not run at all on certain machines, whereas you will often find that at least some version of Linux will work.

...and that there is a much wider variety of software available for Windows, whether commercial/proprietary, free as in beer proprietary, or open source.

Yeah, there is a lot more software available for Windows than for Linux/Mac/BSD. The question is, does it really matter? After all, a lot of software is just variations on a theme... For example, there may be a dozen word processors available for Windows (more than for Linux/Mac), but most Windows people really aren't going to bother using more than Microsoft Word, so also having WordPerfect, AmiPro, StarOffice, etc. isn't really useful.

I rather suspect that the majority of users could probably survive quite well if they were 'stuck' with one basic software package consisting of web browser, email program, and simple spreadsheet... no need to have access to a million different programs.

[GreNME]

For example, there may be a dozen word processors available for Windows (more than for Linux/Mac), but most Windows people really aren't going to bother using more than Microsoft Word, so also having WordPerfect, AmiPro, StarOffice, etc. isn't really useful.

Actually, Linux-land has a butt-load more text and word processors. Most people use MS Office because it's an industry standard, and would use whatever else if that was an industry standard. Xerox was the king of copiers until others began making a name for themselves. It's similar with programs people run (or food that they eat, or clothes they wear, or appliances they buy, etc.).

I rather suspect that the majority of users could probably survive quite well if they were 'stuck' with one basic software package consisting of web browser, email program, and simple spreadsheet... no need to have access to a million different programs.

Steve Jobs is banking on that notion with the iPad.

[rjh01]

I wonder what the future of the McAfee anti-virus program is? Are people going to be looking for protection elsewhere or are they going to say it was a freak accident that could happen to any company and keep on using it?

[Almo]

It is also the affected companies fault for still using XP. Upgrade your OSes you greedy CEOs.

We don't upgrade unless we know it won't cause us loads of hours in lost productivity, as Vista apparently would have. I expect we may go to Win 7, but I don't know when.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Yeah, there is a lot more software available for Windows than for Linux/Mac/BSD. The question is, does it really matter? After all, a lot of software is just variations on a theme... For example, there may be a dozen word processors available for Windows (more than for Linux/Mac), but most Windows people really aren't going to bother using more than Microsoft Word, so also having WordPerfect, AmiPro, StarOffice, etc. isn't really useful.

I rather suspect that the majority of users could probably survive quite well if they were 'stuck' with one basic software package consisting of web browser, email program, and simple spreadsheet... no need to have access to a million different programs.


Reading that was somewhat amusing, since one of the "talking points" that Linux zealots use against Windows is "freedom of choice". It's also the counter they use when someone points out the mind-numbingly large number of Linux distributions that exist.

[JWideman]

Reading that was somewhat amusing, since one of the "talking points" that Linux zealots use against Windows is "freedom of choice". It's also the counter they use when someone points out the mind-numbingly large number of Linux distributions that exist.

There's a large number of Linux distributions because everyone who puts one together has their own idea of how it should be done, which is sort of the major reason to use Linux in the first place. The result is that there is often some brilliant innovation even though there's little - or even no - commercial interest.
There's a number of applications that all do the same thing because everyone who makes one knows there's money to be made there. The result is little innovation - only that which has proven commercial interest gets developed. What little innovation there is, is all about copy protection - as if the reason people aren't buying the same program every year is because they're stealing it.

[BenBurch]

Reading that was somewhat amusing, since one of the "talking points" that Linux zealots use against Windows is "freedom of choice". It's also the counter they use when someone points out the mind-numbingly large number of Linux distributions that exist.

At last count, there are around 30 quite usable spreadsheets for Linux, BTW...

And do not forget that quite a lot of Windows software runs on Linux unmodified under WINE. I have Kindle for PC running on my Xubuntu netbook, in fact.