Will Dubya dump Dick?

[zakur]

Story (http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=22128) The vice president, whose moderation and 35-year Washington experience reassured voters worried about the callowness and inexperience of Bush during the 2000 campaign, is seen more and more by Republican Party politicos as a drag on the president's re-election chances in what is universally expected to be an extremely close race.

The reasons are simple: instead of the moderate voice of wisdom and caution that voters thought they were getting in the vice president, ongoing disclosures about his role in the drive to war in Iraq and other controversial administration plans depict him as an extremist who constantly pushed for the most radical measures.

He is seen as not just an extremist, but also a kind of 'eminence grise' who exercises undue influence over Bush to further a radical agenda, a notion that was furthered by the publication of a recent book about former treasury secretary Paul O'Neill, who described Cheney as creating a ''kind of praetorian guard around the president'' that blocked out contrary views.

In addition, Cheney's association with Halliburton, the giant construction and oil company he headed for much of the 1990s and that gobbled up billions of dollars in contracts for Iraq's post-war reconstruction, is growing steadily as a major political liability.

[...]

Reports were already surfacing two months ago that a discreet ''dump-Cheney'' movement had been launched by intimate associates of Bush's father (former president George HW Bush) -- his national security adviser Brent Scowcroft and former secretary of state James Baker, who now has a White House appointment as Bush Jr's personal envoy to persuade official creditors to substantially reduce Iraq's 110-billion-dollar foreign debt.

In addition to their perception that Cheney's presence would harm Bush's re-election chances, the two men, who battled frequently with the vice president when he was defence secretary in the first Bush administration, have privately expressed great concern over Cheney's unparalleled influence over the younger Bush and the damage that has done to U.S. relations with long-time allies, particularly in Europe and the Arab world.Is Cheney really a liability? Could dropping him hurt Bush more than help him?

[The Fool]

Originally posted by zakur
Story (http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=22128) Is Cheney really a liability? Could dropping him hurt Bush more than help him?
well, it seems to me that someone needs to have a lot of stuffups nailed to them and thrown overboard for the good of the re-election ship..... Why not Chaney?

[hammegk]

I'm betting on Rudy in the 2004 VP slot, and for Pres in 2008.

[corplinx]

Originally posted by zakur
Story (http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=22128) Is Cheney really a liability? Could dropping him hurt Bush more than help him?

"handouts to halliburton" has become "the big lie" that is connecting somewhat. Even Nancy Pelosi mentioned it. If they can make it really connect then Cheney may be a liability.

[Supercharts]

Bill Frist (Senator, TN) would be a good bet.

[BTox]

Originally posted by hammegk
I'm betting on Rudy in the 2004 VP slot, and for Pres in 2008.

Interesting choice - could Rudy deliver NY to Bush? Dems would have no chance without NY.

[a_unique_person]

Given that Cheney really seems to be running the place, why would he dump himself?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Supercharts
Bill Frist (Senator, TN) would be a good bet.

He would be my frist choice.

[Zep]

Is there a grassy knoll or a schoolbook repository handy? :)

Looks very much like Dad is coming to Junior's rescue...again. Dag nabbit!! Cain't that boy keep hi'self outa trouble for more 'n four years??

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
Given that Cheney really seems to be running the place, why would he dump himself?

That may have been the original plan, pre-911 when W was to be primarly a one term amiable dispenser of patronage, with a "humble" foreign policy.

This is who is running the war:
http://www.ajax.org/images/people/rice,condoleeza-2.jpg

Go Condi!

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by zakur
Story (http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=22128) Is Cheney really a liability? Could dropping him hurt Bush more than help him?

I seriously doubt that Cheney will be dumped unless something were to happen that really forced the issue (such as his periodic heart problems).

[Ladewig]

I can easily picture Mr. Cheney saying, "you can have this vice-presidency when you pry it from my cold, dead hands."

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Ladewig
I can easily picture Mr. Cheney saying, "you can have this vice-presidency when you pry it from my cold, dead hands."

I can much more easily picture him saying that he wants to spend more time with his family. He could still be some kind of unofficial advisor.

[Andonyx]

Originally posted by Crossbow


I seriously doubt that Cheney will be dumped unless something were to happen that really forced the issue (such as his periodic heart problems).

I've no doubt the Republicans can arrange something just like that.

[Number Six]

While I think the Dems have a chance against Bush/Cheney, if it were Bush/Condi instead I think the Reps would have it won as soon as they announced the new ticket.

[Ladewig]

I can much more easily picture him saying that he wants to spend more time with his family. He could still be some kind of unofficial advisor.

From what I see and hear of Dick Cheney, he would have a hard time going from official status to unofficial. Giving up complete unfettered access to the president, the cabinet, and all parts of the executive branch might be hard for someone who has been at the top of the org-chart for decades. Even the perks, Air Force 2, office in the White House, large staff, immediate access to the media, would be hard to surrender.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Ladewig


From what I see and hear of Dick Cheney, he would have a hard time going from official status to unofficial. Giving up complete unfettered access to the president, the cabinet, and all parts of the executive branch might be hard for someone who has been at the top of the org-chart for decades. Even the perks, Air Force 2, office in the White House, large staff, immediate access to the media, would be hard to surrender.

1) His current power as an "advisor" far exceeds his constitutionally mandated duties as Vice President.

2) Unfettered access to the President is at the discretion of the President in any case, even for the Vice President. Hubert Humphrey, for instance had little access to Johnson.

3) Cheney won't stubbornly hang on if it might mean W losing the election!

4) His office in the White House? I though he was at an "undisclosed location" most of the time.

5) He hasn't used his access to the media much, now has he?

[Evolver]

Could Howdy Doody dump Buffalo Bob?

more approprate:
Could Knucklehead dump Paul Winchell?

[Dorian Gray]

It suggests that the GOP are looking at 2004 as a slam-dunk and thinking ahead to the electability of Cheney in 2008. Which is Kucinich-like, IMO.

[Ladewig]

1) His current power as an "advisor" far exceeds his constitutionally mandated duties as Vice President.

2) Unfettered access to the President is at the discretion of the President in any case, even for the Vice President. Hubert Humphrey, for instance had little access to Johnson.

3) Cheney won't stubbornly hang on if it might mean W losing the election!

4) His office in the White House? I though he was at an "undisclosed location" most of the time.

5) He hasn't used his access to the media much, now has he?

I see your point. Karl Rove has the power, the access, and the juice without holding a prominent position. On the other hand, convincing a man as opinionated as Mr. Cheney of the possibility of #3 might be difficult.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Ladewig


I see your point. Karl Rove has the power, the access, and the juice without holding a prominent position. On the other hand, convincing a man as opinionated as Mr. Cheney of the possibility of #3 might be difficult.

If W loses the election, what is Cheney?

As for the perks, c'mon he's rich. He has most of the perks anyway if he cares to pay for them, which he easily can.

He will step aside for the good of the party if necessary. It only remains to be seen if it is necessary.

Supposing that Bush is a moron is a mistake. He's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he knows when to delegate power. That is the mark of a competant executive.

You may hate him if you will, but nobody is pulling his strings. Not Cheney, not Rove, not even Condi to whom he has delegated running the war.

Wasn't it FDR who had his "kitchen cabinet" of unofficial advisors? Or did that formulation originate with Woodrow Wilson or maybe Lincoln?

This war is a world war and a civil war also, though not officially.

[davefoc]

I thought Cheney might cost Bush the election last time around.

He seemed too old then, plus he came from a state and a region with few electoral votes that was likely to go for Bush.

I think this next election will be very close and dumping Cheney may not be a sufficient action to get Bush the election but it may be a necessary action for Bush to win again.

[Evolver]

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred


You may hate him if you will, but nobody is pulling his strings. Not Cheney, not Rove, not even Condi to whom he has delegated running the war.



To paraphrase Bobcat Goldthwaite

Do you think Ronald McDonald is out in back cooking your hamburger?

[Dorian Gray]

If W loses the election, what is Cheney? CEO of Halliburton.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Dorian Gray
CEO of Halliburton.

Highly unlikely. He would probably write a book and hit the rubber chicken and mashed potato circuit.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Dorian Gray
CEO of Halliburton.

Don't be silly. He's been there and done that.

Golf until he dies is more likely. :p