Bill on the table; calls for Puerto Ricans to go out and vote for staying the same

[Dorian Gray]

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-2499

Basically they can vote for Independence, Sovereignty (like Indian reservations), Statehood or Commonwealth (staying like they are now). I'm pretty sure they'll vote for staying like they are now, given all the parameters. So why is Congress wasting their time? (I know a 'Rican sponsored the bill, but still.)

[Travis]

I wonder why they abhor statehood.

I think Beck was ranting about this the other day.

[The Fallen Serpent]

Mostly, the Congressional bill is about giving pre-approval for the Puerto Rican referendum and basically stating the US is not happy with the status quo but will abide by the decision of Puerto Ricans even though it will keep asking the question until the status quo changes.

Previous referendums, even if Puerto Ricans had opted for statehood or another option, would still have had to await Congressional approval.

Largely, Puerto Rico is treated as a state in relations with the Federal government with some obvious exceptions or where it would disrupt the operation of Federal branches. Obvious exceptions are no-voting members of Congress. One of the other big exceptions is that Puerto Ricans pay fully into Medicare as much as any other US citizen does but residents in Puerto Rico do not receive the full benefit that states and federal districts do. I cannot recall the exact number but I believe it was determined they receive 15% of what they would receive as a state. It is a very lopsided tax in that regard. Most Puerto Ricans, individuals and corporations, do not pay Federal income tax. Most of the Commonwealth's admistrative costs are paid out of commonwealth taxation. Yet there are some obvious holes. For instance Puerto Rico does not pay much into National Defense expenditures.

So there are advantages and disadvantages to the situation. Personally I do not care for their current status but agree it should be up to them to decide the final relationship. I think this measure by Congress will put pressure on the residents that will eventually lead to statehood in the next twenty years. As I understood it, the current status is not popular in Puerto Rico either but the divide is too large to decide which direction they wish to go. Statehood is the most popular but fails to achieve majority status. This Congressional bill splits the referendum into two parts: 1) Is the status quo satisfactory 2) What method is preferred. Previous referendums defaulted to status quo if no other option gained majority. This version essentially treats the status quo question separately and if the status quo fails one of the other options will have to pass.

[Skeptic]

I think it isn't abhorrence, but the usual human suspicion of dislike of change. Here, we're speaking of a big change for what seems to most Puertoricans as being done for no good reason. Can't say I disagree.

[tyr_13]

Do they want to get in on the sweet new government run healthcare? Oh wait...

[Dorian Gray]

I wonder why they abhor statehood.

I think Beck was ranting about this the other day.I thought Beck would be in favor of a sea change, but depending on where it's at it's still not a lost cause. Time will tell if people think he's a jack-ass or if they simply pay no mind.

[The Fallen Serpent]

I think it isn't abhorrence, but the usual human suspicion of dislike of change. Here, we're speaking of a big change for what seems to most Puertoricans as being done for no good reason. Can't say I disagree.

Well, most Puerto Ricans do not like the current situation they just cannot agree on what the change should be. Status quo is really just the most popular of multiple unpopular choices. It is like winning an election with 26% of the votes, the elected is more popular than the other candidates but still not individually popular nor representative of the constituency's opinion. It is not a perfect analogy I know, since one can get that sort of vote and still coincidently be both popular and actually representative of the majority. The political party that promotes the status quo is not exactly doing just that, as they promote the status quo and some of the other options. So that party's primacy represents a few different positions on Puerto Rico's status, not just status quo. If that party just represented the status quo the party that represented pro-statehood would likely be the majority party.

I can understand why Puerto Ricans do not like having the choice being forced on them but I see good reason to do so. It is 4 million US citizens living under a different system than the most of the country. The usual benefit to living in Puerto Rico is claimed to be taxes. The income tax is only slightly less than US Federal income tax. It maxes out at 33% instead of the Federal of 35%. I would pay the same. The sales tax is 7%, and there a number of states with smaller that do not have income taxes. Puerto Ricans still pay into Medicare (for less benefit) and Social Security. They do not have a say in the Federal government.

[Dorian Gray]

I'm in Ohio, which is around 7% sales tax, and we have income tax. Florida has around 7% sales tax also, but no income tax.

[The Fallen Serpent]

I'm in Ohio, which is around 7% sales tax, and we have income tax. Florida has around 7% sales tax also, but no income tax.

It is still on the low end of US states, but I hear constantly that Puerto Rico is some sort of anti-tax wet dream and that is why they should refuse statehood. Really it is just on par with our low tax states and still higher than about four or five. The US haven for working class individuals to avoid taxes is Alaska. Land of socialized oil removing the need for income and sales tax.

[WildCat]

I wonder why they abhor statehood.
It exempts them from taxes.

[WildCat]

The US haven for working class individuals to avoid taxes is Alaska. Land of socialized oil removing the need for income and sales tax.
Alaska oil is not socialized. Alaska owns no oil rigs, no tankers, no pipelines.

What Alaska does own is the oil in the ground in state-owned land, the rights to which they lease to private corporations in return for royalties which are distributed among Alaska residents.

Owning raw materials is not socialism, it's socialism when you own the means of production.

[Dorian Gray]

It exempts them from taxes.No. Pay attention.

Alaska oil is not socialized. Alaska owns no oil rigs, no tankers, no pipelines.

What Alaska does own is the oil in the ground in state-owned land, the rights to which they lease to private corporations in return for royalties which are distributed among Alaska residents.

Owning raw materials is not socialism, it's socialism when you own the means of production.Then why all the fuss about socialized medicine? The federal government doesn't own the vast majority of hospitals and drugs. And there is no production in Social Security. Why do they call THAT socialism?