Another question for Rolfe or others

[Suezoled]

Um, you might not want to read if you are eating:

Okay, Thorougbred horse. Grey. 25 years old. Generally healthy, normal high metabolism a weenie thoroughbred has. Wears 2 blankets in the winter. Turnout during the day. I have recently been assigned to work with him. Have not worked with this horse for several years. I bring him into the stable, tie him, and pull off the blankets. Just past his whithers, along the top ofhis back, where a saddle would lay, are funny lumps under his hair. I run my hand over them, not lightly but not heavily. The lumps break loose. They approximate in size from a man's thumb to his smallest finger. The flesh underneath the scab is exposed; it's pink and kind of moist looking. The scab itself has horse hair imbedded in it, it's dry, but with a "creamy" accumulation of puss underneath. Removing the lumps doesn't seems to bother the horse. Moving excess hair from the exposed pink flesh causes him to flinch. There are about 10 lumps on either side of of the horse. If the scabs were smaller and more numerous, I would think rain rot/rain scald. The area of affliction is confined pretty much to his back just beyond his whithers. There is no way I'm going to get a saddle on him until the skin heals.

How I dealt with it: well, the owner was recovering from a minor surgery. I made sure the flesh was free of dirt, and then used an activated charcoal mix to coat the wounds, and let it dry a bit. He then had his blankets put back on, as it's very cold, he was given an apple, and set back outside. The owner will look at him tomorrow.

I have never seen anything like this before. The scabs broke off so easily, but the flesh was very obviously not healed.

[Rolfe]

Dermatophilus? If it's that, it could be identified in a lab.

I remember a client once coming into the surgery where I was working with one of these scabs in her hand. The boss took one look at it and said "rain rash" (dermatophilosis). Didn't even bother with the microscope or culturing it, as far as I remember.

But it's hard without seeing it for yourself. My pony had something similar once and it wasn't dermatophilus, because we looked. It would be worth just letting your vet see a bit of scab/hair.

Rolfe.

[El Greco]

That's where a digital camera comes handy. We could all have a yummy picture now, instead of an inadequate -albeit lyrical- description :D

[Zep]

Ooof, and here I was putting mango yoghurt on my cornflakes while I read this...

[Rolfe]

It really does sound very like Dermatophilus, actually. The rawness of the flesh and the presence of pus once the scab has pulled off fits the description. (Whatever my pony had, it just left normal skin when the tuft of hair was pulled away.)

The only oddity is that it's happening under a rug. It's usually seen on the back on exposed skin.

It's treatable with antibiotics or topical antibacterials and so on, so it would be worth getting the diagnosis confirmed and your vet's advice about how to handle it.

I just did a search on the organism, but I didn't find the academic information I was hoping for. Lots of amateur pages, some better than others, some awfully keen on woo-woo self-treatments. But there were some individual vet sites with reasonable information too.

Definitely worth asking your vet.

Rolfe.

[MRC_Hans]

I'm sure there is a homeopathic remedy for this.

:p


:eek:


:hit:


(ducks, runs)

Hans

[Suezoled]

Thanks folks (yes Hans, there is a lot of homeopathic remedy for the skin... more's the pity). I don't have a digital camera, so I just had to be content taking pics off the internet. Although, if I could have taken pics, they'd have been real beauties. Nice big large scabs oozing dead white blood cells, nice large raw skin ....


http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/docs/osucvm/students/course/fungal/sld050.htm (what the scabs looked like, but much larger.)

http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/docs/osucvm/students/course/fungal/sld047.htm (what the wound looked like.)

http://www.worldzone.net/recreation/virtuallyhorses/dermatophilus.html (another happy picture, this one half-healed)

Now my scalp is itching because I had looked to see if it was ringworm...

[Rolfe]

That last one is a better link than I thought it was when I checked it out earlier this morning (anyone who thinks that the word "bacteria" is singular tends to get my back up, and maybe I'm prejudiced, but "aloe vera, neem oil and Manuka honey (activated) are very good for healing wounds" just registered on my BS detector).

However, it's mostly very good, and they point out quite sensibly that you can get it under rugs if the rug is put on when the horse is wet.

I don't think this is ringworm, because the description of pus isn't consistent with that. I hope it isn't, because even Trichophyton ringworm is contagious to humans!

Nah, Dermatophilus is consistently coming up top of my search engine on this presentation.

Rolfe.

[Rolfe]

Double post, sorry.

:)

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Rolfe
That last one is a better link than I thought it was when I checked it out earlier this morning (anyone who thinks that the word "bacteria" is singular tends to get my back up, and maybe I'm prejudiced, but "aloe vera, neem oil and Manuka honey (activated) are very good for healing wounds" just registered on my BS detector).

However, it's mostly very good, and they point out quite sensibly that you can get it under rugs if the rug is put on when the horse is wet.

I don't think this is ringworm, because the description of pus isn't consistent with that. I hope it isn't, because even Trichophyton ringworm is contagious to humans!

Nah, Dermatophilus is consistently coming up top of my search engine on this presentation.

Rolfe.

You mean there's more than one bacteria Rolfe? In the Whole Wide World? Wow! (I'm kidding.)
I'm thinking maybe that horse was worked by the last girl who leased him and he was blanketed while still sweaty. She does that sometimes. And yes, the "alternative treatments" made me wrinkle my nose. But it was generally pretty consistent with other descriptions of Dermatophilus, and I linked to it mainly for the picture anyway.

Well, the blanket was dry when I inspected it for other traces of hair, wetness, etc. Just a bit... dirty (reddens in shame). I used the activated charcoal just as a way to coat the wound... they looked very exposed and kind of raw.

[Rolfe]

Oh, get the poor horse some antibiotics and help your friendly local vet pay his mortgage! :)

Rolfe.

[Suezoled]

I'm right on it this afternoon.

and I'm not trying to be cheap. I just wasn't sure what to do until I contacted the vet. So, I used the charcoal until the vet can see him. Until then, I also pestered Rolfe.

[Rolfe]

I was JOKING, OK? :D You know, like these evil allopaths are only in it for the money and they don't care about the patient and I'm sure you can fill in the rest of the rant for yourself....

Rolfe.

[Suezoled]

I knew it was a joke, but I contacted Dr Cool Vet Guy anyway. He took one look and said "Rain Scald." Dermatophilas. Very good call Rolfe! (Very lucky call?) <---I kid.

I've only ever seen rain scald on a "the crusties are small and on the legs, under the belly, etc" scale. I've never seen them so BIG though, or so easy to bump off.

Why is Dr Cool Vet Guy so cool? He didn't charge me for the 5 minute consult. He was in the neighborhood anyway, he said, so it was no bother. Also, he said he didn't think the horse needed oral antibiotics, as he seemed to be doing okay.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Suezoled
Why is Dr Cool Vet Guy so cool? He didn't charge me for the 5 minute consult. He was in the neighborhood anyway, he said, so it was no bother. Also, he said he didn't think the horse needed oral antibiotics, as he seemed to be doing okay. Ah, proof you're lying!

We all know (because we're always being told....) that these people only go to medical or veterinary school because they're smart and they see it as the best way to a good income and a good lifestyle! They don't care about their patients, not like these wonderful holistic healers who give away their homoeopathic remedies for free and don't charge for a consultation and do everything for the love of it....!

No way would this guy not have charged you! :roll:
[/DEEP SARCASM MODE]

Glad to hear the horse doesn't need systemic A/Bs, the milder cases do fine on toplcal treatment, but it's best to be sure.

Your description of the lesions was text-book classic, the only reason I put a question mark in the first post was not to sound too smart-aleck. :D

Rolfe.