my lunch with a chinaman [Archive]

corplinx

28th January 2004, 08:53 PM

Since I work in high-tech, its inevitable that I work alongside asians of all races and creeds ::wink::. Today I had lunch with a pal of mine named Zen who is from eastern China.

During the course of lunch, he mentioned his mandatory 1 month of military ROTC type service. I joked "sure, they probably fired you for running over that kid in the square."

He became noticeably perturbed and informed me that the student got what he deserved and that the tank driver should have backed up and rolled over him 100 more times.

So I asked him if he would have rolled the tank forward himself if he were driving. He answered enthusiasticly yes and that any Chinaman would.

I am still speechless. Mind you, I made a joke once about a month ago about "you should join the Chinese military so you can beat up Tibetan monks" to which he simply told me that Tibet is a province of China, it always has been, and the Tibetans want the Chinese in and the dissidents out.

This person has been here in America for well over 7 years now.

I am still speechless over today's lunch. I tried the socratic method to try to draw him out a bit but it didn't work.

Zep

28th January 2004, 08:58 PM

So now do you understand what mindless jingoism, "my country, right or wrong", "all the other countries can kiss my ass", looks like to someone of another nationality??

Clancie

28th January 2004, 08:59 PM

I'm assuming you don't know this, corplinx, but "chinaman" is a slur. :(

corplinx

28th January 2004, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by Clancie
I'm assuming you don't know this, corplinx, but "chinaman" is a slur. :(

uhhhhhh....... is it? my bad. Someone call the PC police.

corplinx

28th January 2004, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Zep
So now do you understand what mindless jingoism, "my country, right or wrong", "all the other countries can kiss my ass", looks like to someone of another nationality??

More than anything, I feel sympathy for him because he grew up in a place with state run media where even something as ludricrous as running over a student full-on with a tank intentionally on international TV no less is championed as heroic.

a_unique_person

28th January 2004, 09:06 PM

Clancie

28th January 2004, 09:10 PM

epepke

28th January 2004, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Clancie
I'm assuming you don't know this, corplinx, but "chinaman" is a slur. :(

Even worse, it's the mildest possible slur for someone who believes that the kid deserved to be run over.

I could probably think of a couple of hundred, most of them forbidden in this forum.

Zep

28th January 2004, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by corplinx
More than anything, I feel sympathy for him because he grew up in a place with state run media where even something as ludricrous as running over a student full-on with a tank intentionally on international TV no less is championed as heroic. Funny, we feel the same thing when we see something as ludicrous as a big country getting their huge military to invade some 3rd-world little country based on really piss-weak excuses and outright fraud and with coverage by CNN, and some mindless people cheer the instigating leader on like he's doing something heroic and good.Originally posted by a_unique_person
He doesn't like what he sees in the mirror.Unfortunately and sadly, I agree. And he's not the only one.

corplinx

28th January 2004, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by Zep
Funny, we feel the same thing when we see something as ludicrous as a big country getting their huge military to invade some 3rd-world little country based on really piss-weak excuses and outright fraud and with coverage by CNN, and some mindless people cheer the instigating leader on like he's doing something heroic and good.Unfortunately and sadly, I agree. And he's not the only one.

We've come to grips with Vietnam thank you. Its a sad chapter of american history and we have dealt with it. However, CNN wasn't around back then.

At first I thought you were comparing The police state in Tibet where religion is supressed and people are at whim beaten or killed perhaps to the one in Iraq. Or perhaps the joyous mowing down of a peaceful protestor with a tank compared to the remorse for an Iraqi policeman mistaken for an insurgent. But then I thought that would be downright insulting and silly and guessed what you really meant.

corplinx

28th January 2004, 09:48 PM

By the way, is englishman a slur also or it only a slur if the person being referenced isn't white when you add "man" to their nationality. Is this something some chinese pride activist group says is a slur or is it really a slur? I apologize if it is.

Zep

28th January 2004, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by corplinx

We've come to grips with Vietnam thank you. Its a sad chapter of american history and we have dealt with it. However, CNN wasn't around back then.

At first I thought you were comparing The police state in Tibet where religion is supressed and people are at whim beaten or killed perhaps to the one in Iraq. Or perhaps the joyous mowing down of a peaceful protestor with a tank compared to the remorse for an Iraqi policeman mistaken for an insurgent. But then I though that would be downright insulting and silly and guessed what you really meant. Moi? Insulting? Heaven forbid that I should draw such comparisons...! :) One COULD mention motes and eyes and such, though.

a_unique_person

28th January 2004, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by corplinx
By the way, is englishman a slur also or it only a slur if the person being referenced isn't white when you add "man" to their nationality. Is this something some chinese pride activist group says is a slur or is it really a slur? I apologize if it is.

Englishman is a slur, as is Pommy B@stard.

Clancie

28th January 2004, 10:22 PM

Posted by corplinx

By the way, is englishman a slur also or it only a slur if the person being referenced isn't white when you add "man" to their nationality.
(still giving the benefit of the doubt....) Its the way the word "chinaman" has been used historically as a slur (and...side note...the grammatical parallel you're looking for--though irrelevant--is "Englishman"= "Chinese"; "chinaman"="englandman")
Is this something some chinese pride activist group says is a slur or is it really a slur?
Well, what's the difference?

And, yes, it's really a slur (i.e. there's a historical context for it being a genuine slur). It sounds as if you want some kind of source--a little hard to find a really good one online (books do better)--but this one, a press release from an Asian American journalists' organization, may help.

Recognize and avoid racial slurs such as ``Chink'' and ``Chinaman.'' These words are offensive and derogatory and should ONLY be used in direct quotations or when making historical references.

ethnic slurs (http://www.huaren.org/diaspora/n_america/usa/news/052499-01.html)

The Central Scrutinizer

28th January 2004, 10:25 PM

I really admire Asian folks. They are very clever and crafty, not to mention industrious.

Clancie

28th January 2004, 10:46 PM

btw, corplinx, I don't know if you remember the students at Kent State University who were protesting during the Vietnam War and were shot and killed by the National Guard troops.

At the time, it was very easy to find people who had no problem at all with the Guard killing those students.

Brainwashing citizens to think that "my government is always right because they say they are" can happen anywhere.....

Zep

28th January 2004, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Clancie
btw, corplinx, I don't know if you remember the students at Kent State University who were protesting during the Vietnam War and were shot and killed by the National Guard troops.

At the time, it was very easy to find people who had no problem at all with the Guard killing those students.

Brainwashing citizens to think that "my government is always right because they say they are" can happen anywhere..... I agree, and I think this was the point of my original post in this thread...

PS. I was a student at the time - Kent State echoed all the way to Australia, as does Vietnam still now (which, again, we went into at the USA's request).

charley_bigtime

28th January 2004, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by a_unique_person

Englishman is a slur, as is Pommy B@stard.

No it isn't.

Clancie

28th January 2004, 11:37 PM

(and...side note...the grammatical parallel you're looking for--though irrelevant--is "Englishman"= "Chinese"; "chinaman"="englandman")

And the "man" part isn't necessary anyway, as in sentences like..."He's English." and "He's Chinese."

demon

28th January 2004, 11:39 PM

"At first I thought you were comparing The police state in Tibet where religion is supressed and people are at whim beaten or killed perhaps to the one in Iraq. Or perhaps the joyous mowing down of a peaceful protestor with a tank compared to the remorse for an Iraqi policeman mistaken for an insurgent. But then I thought that would be downright insulting and silly and guessed what you really meant."

Rachel Corrie anyone?

corplinx

28th January 2004, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by demon

Rachel Corrie anyone?

I prefer a nice spicy chicken corrie, but thanks.

Iconoclast

29th January 2004, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
I really admire Asian folks. They are very clever and crafty, not to mention industrious.
Racist! RACIST!!!!

richardm

29th January 2004, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by corplinx
So I asked him if he would have rolled the tank forward himself if he were driving. He answered enthusiasticly yes and that any Chinaman would.

Really? I wonder who was driving the tank, then?

Jon_in_london

29th January 2004, 02:57 AM

Originally posted by Clancie

And the "man" part isn't necessary anyway, as in sentences like..."He's English." and "He's Chinese."

You should actually say Chinaperson to avoid pissing off the feminazis.

Zep

29th January 2004, 03:01 AM

Originally posted by Jon_in_london

You should actually say Chinaperson to avoid pissing off the feminazis. Actually, you can't even say "person" - that's sexist because it has the word "son" in it. So the proper PC version is "Chinaperoffspring". MUCH better, no??!

shemp

29th January 2004, 04:57 AM

Originally posted by Zep
Actually, you can't even say "person" - that's sexist because it has the word "son" in it. So the proper PC version is "Chinaperoffspring". MUCH better, no??!

Actually, even this is incorrect, as it contains the slur "ape". The correct term is "Chinprimateroffspring".

CFLarsen

29th January 2004, 05:27 AM

Isn't it amazing how fast one can destroy the intent of a discussion with accusations of racism?

Because somebody pretended to be offended on somebody else's behalf, the intentions of this thread is averted.

Scary how efficient this method is.

Jon_in_london

29th January 2004, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by shemp

Actually, even this is incorrect, as it contains the slur "ape". The correct term is "Chinprimateroffspring".

Shemp you rascist git!

Cant you see that the word contains 'mater' which disenfranchises the male parent?

I therefore suggest "Chinpriparenteroffspring"

Jaggy Bunnet

29th January 2004, 05:32 AM

Originally posted by Jon_in_london

Shemp you rascist git!

Cant you see that the word contains 'mater' which disenfranchises the male parent?

I therefore suggest "Chinpriparenteroffspring"

Isn't the inclusion of the phrase "enteroffspring" a clear incitement to child abuse and incest?

Jon_in_london

29th January 2004, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by Jaggy Bunnet

Isn't the inclusion of the phrase "enteroffspring" a clear incitement to child abuse and incest?

Not fair- you have to come up with your own modifications or the game wont work!

Jaggy Bunnet

29th January 2004, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by Jon_in_london

Not fair- you have to come up with your own modifications or the game wont work!

OK then

"Chinpriparrelatetooffspring"

Jon_in_london

29th January 2004, 06:25 AM

Still discrimintaes against orphans!

So "Chinprilegalguardianoffspring"

Jaggy Bunnet

29th January 2004, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Still discrimintaes against orphans!

So "Chinprilegalguardianoffspring"

"Chinprilegalorguyguardianoffspring"

wollery

29th January 2004, 06:48 AM

[Terribly English comment] Actually I think you'll find that a chinaman is a left arm spin bowlers off break to a right handed batsman. [/Terribly English comment]

Jon_in_london

29th January 2004, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by wollery
[Terribly English comment] Actually I think you'll find that a chinaman is a left arm spin bowlers off break to a right handed batsman. [/Terribly English comment]

And a creeping coolie?

c0rbin

29th January 2004, 06:53 AM

Four years ago I lost my chin in a mountainbiking rally raising awarness for the Chinese disenfranchised parents whose orphan upbrining gave them an unnatural fear of apes and their sons.

So insentetive to use

I would prefere you use: "Chinprilegalorguyguardianoffspring"

You must use Mandibledprilegalorguyguardianoffspring

Tmy

29th January 2004, 06:54 AM

Corpolix.

Im surpised he didnt punch you in the face for being such a jerk. Imagine the gall of you (an American) telling him (a Chinaman) how his country works and the real story on whats going on over there. The guy is from China!!! Have you ever been there?

Picture yourself in France and having a Frenchmen lecture you about how Americans are all about ruling the world, bombing poor countries, stealing oil from the mideast, andd keeping black americans pent up in ghettos. Im sure you'd be a little annoyed.

Clancie

29th January 2004, 06:59 AM

If the comments in this thread are perceived as humorous, I think Girl 6's idea of minority outreach has a long way to go....

ceo_esq

29th January 2004, 07:00 AM

Interestingly, the generally authoritative Oxford English Dictionary does not indicate that the term Chinaman is in any way a slur, although that work usually does mention where a particular expression is considered offensive. Several American dictionaries I consulted do indicate that the same term is a slur. I wonder if there is a difference in usage between Great Britain and the United States.

ceo_esq

29th January 2004, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by Zep
So now do you understand what mindless jingoism, "my country, right or wrong", "all the other countries can kiss my ass", looks like to someone of another nationality?? I'm reminded of some newspaper's recent observation about how tedious it becomes to be continually told that your country is doing it all wrong by people from countries lacking the competence, conviction or means to do it at all.

c0rbin

29th January 2004, 07:09 AM

I'm reminded of some newspaper's recent observation about how tedious it becomes to be continually told that your country is doing it all wrong by people from countries lacking the competence, conviction or means to do it at all.

::swish::

roger

29th January 2004, 07:12 AM

For anyone not interested in discussing the proper term to refer to a chinese man, may I recommend the book River Town. It's an excellent account by a peace corps volunteer who spent two years teaching English in China. He learned quite a bit about how many Chinese think about their country, politics, Tibet, etc. You will probably not agree with them at the end of the book, but you will have insight into why they draw their conclusions.

c0rbin

29th January 2004, 07:15 AM

You mean Pearl Buck is not the definitive source on Chinese culture!?

c0rbin

29th January 2004, 07:16 AM

And now for something completely different... (http://www.elyrics.net/go/m/Monty_Python/I_Like_Chinese/)

tdn

29th January 2004, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by c0rbin
Four years ago I lost my chin in a mountainbiking rally raising awarness for the Chinese disenfranchised parents whose orphan upbrining gave them an unnatural fear of apes and their sons.

So insentetive to use

I would prefere you use: "Chinprilegalorguyguardianoffspring"

You must use Mandibledprilegalorguyguardianoffspring

Seasonist bastards.

Mandibledprilegalorguyguardianoffseason.

CFLarsen

29th January 2004, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Clancie
If the comments in this thread are perceived as humorous, I think Girl 6's idea of minority outreach has a long way to go....

And yet, you percieve the towelette's remarks as funny, because the object is skeptics....(well, certain skeptics, whom you refuse to name)

Not only is your opinion on skepticism, mediumship etc the only correct one, now you want to decide what humor is.

Get off your high horse, Clancie. You're just pissed because nobody wants to follow you down the trail of self-righteous political correctness.

Clancie

29th January 2004, 08:19 AM

You're on "Ignore", Claus, but let me guess....

Your two posts in this thread have nothing whatsoever to do with Corplinx topic...they're all just more criticism of me.

Am I right? :rolleyes:

You make it so easy to always know this....in -whatever- thread I post to.....

CFLarsen

29th January 2004, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Clancie
You're on "Ignore", Claus, but let me guess....

Your two posts in this thread have nothing whatsoever to do with Corplinx topic...they're all just more criticism of me.

Am I right? :rolleyes:

You make it so easy to always know this....in -whatever- thread I post to.....
OMG!! You're psychic!!
:jaw:

Here's how you apply for the million bucks.... (http://www.randi.org/research/index.html)

Seriously, you should go for it!

crackmonkey

29th January 2004, 09:08 AM

Your sexism is revolting.

Persondibledprilegalorguyguardianoffseason.

Jaggy Bunnet

29th January 2004, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by crackmonkey
Your sexism is revolting.

Persondibledprilegalorguyguardianoffseason.

All you have done is swap "man" for "son". You should be ashamed of your ingrained bigotry.

Evolver

29th January 2004, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by crackmonkey
Your sexism is revolting.

Persondibledprilegalorguyguardianoffseason.

Yours, too.

Perchilddibledprilegalorguyguardianoffseachild

GroundStrength

29th January 2004, 10:20 AM

There is not a chinaman's chance that your going to get me to say 'Perchilddibledprilegalorguyguardianoffseachild'

so there.

hawkins_anderson

29th January 2004, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
I really admire Asian folks. They are very clever and crafty, not to mention industrious.

Originally posted by Clancie
If the comments in this thread are perceived as humorous, I think Girl 6's idea of minority outreach has a long way to go....

I should say so......

Jon_in_london

29th January 2004, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by GroundStrength
There is not a chinaman's chance that your going to get me to say 'Perchilddibledprilegalorguyguardianoffseachild'

so there.

Pfff! ageism!!!

'Perchilddibledprilegalorguyguardianoffseahumanbei ngofunspecifiedraceageorgender' if you dont mind!

GroundStrength

29th January 2004, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
...
'Perchilddibledprilegalorguyguardianoffseahumanbei ngofunspecifiedraceageorgender'...

Now THAT I'll say!!

Tmy

29th January 2004, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Jon_in_london

Pfff! ageism!!!

'Perchilddibledprilegalorguyguardianoffseahumanbei ngofunspecifiedraceageorgender' if you dont mind!

Alright!!! Alright!!!! Enough already. Even a Chinamen could see that this joke has run its course.:p

tdn

29th January 2004, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Jon_in_london

Pfff! ageism!!!

'Perchilddibledprilegalorguyguardianoffseahumanbei ngofunspecifiedraceageorgender' if you dont mind!

This is blatent discrimination against both Ian and George!

Perchilddibledprilegalorguyguardunspecifiedmaleadu ltoffseahumanbeingofunspecifiedraceaunspecifiedmal eadultnder

(Yes, this joke is getting old, but I'm still laughing like a hyena.)

Chanileslie

29th January 2004, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Jon_in_london

Pfff! ageism!!!

'Perchilddibledprilegalorguyguardianoffseahumanbei ngofunspecifiedraceageorgender' if you dont mind!

That is still a bit sexist as guy is included and that nasty man word is back so it must be:

Perchilddibledprilegalorguyorgalguardianoffseahuth ingbeingofunspecifiedraceageorgender

Suddenly

29th January 2004, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by corplinx

uhhhhhh....... is it? my bad. Someone call the PC police.

What seems to be the problem sir?

Oh I see.

I hereby sentence anyone posting in this thread to 20 pushups and the reading of a Toni Morrison novel.

There is no appeal. The PC police have the final word. Fear us.

That is all. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Evolver

29th January 2004, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Suddenly

What seems to be the problem sir?

Oh I see.

I hereby sentence anyone posting in this thread to 20 pushups and the reading of a Toni Morrison novel.

There is no appeal. The PC police have the final word. Fear us.

That is all. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Both cruel and unusual. Thank you.

c0rbin

29th January 2004, 12:28 PM

Isn't "Perchilddibledprilegalorguyorgalguardianoffseahuth ingbeingofunspecifiedraceageorgender" Mandarin for "overly well-to-do honkey with a poor grasp of dancing and an unlucky propensity for plaid socks"?

Suddenly

29th January 2004, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by c0rbin
Isn't "Perchilddibledprilegalorguyorgalguardianoffseahuth ingbeingofunspecifiedraceageorgender" Mandarin for "overly well-to-do honkey with a poor grasp of dancing and an unlucky propensity for plaid socks"?

40 Pushups. Further trangressions will involve large quanities of Maya Angelou's poetry. You have been warned.

(Your friendly neighborhood PC cop)

Tmy

29th January 2004, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Suddenly

40 Pushups. Further trangressions will involve large quanities of Maya Angelou's poetry. You have been warned.

(Your friendly neighborhood PC cop)

Pushups unfairly punishes women more than men since they generally have less upperbody strength. You un-PC sexist scumbag!

Great, now you have me doing it.

Suddenly

29th January 2004, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Tmy

Pushups unfairly punishes women more than men since they generally have less upperbody strength. You un-PC sexist scumbag!

Great, now you have me doing it.

On the contrary, pushups benefit those with less upper-body strength and thus promote equality. It is not a punishment, as punishment is not PC. It is simply rehabilitation. Push-ups do not punish the weak, they help the weak become strong.

Your seem to advocate keeping this dreadful situation where women are weaker than men. This is a gross violation of the PC code, and proof that people like you are just trying to oppress other people by your ill-concieved notions of "fairness."

You are hereby sentenced to 100 sit-ups and a one year term in Oprah's book club.

corplinx

29th January 2004, 01:57 PM

I just asked the chinaman if chinaman was an offensive term and he asked "why would that be offensive?" and looked at me like I was a retard.

Thanks a lot Clancie!

GroundStrength

29th January 2004, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by corplinx
I just asked the chinaman if chinaman was an offensive term and he asked "why would that be offensive?" and looked at me like I was a retard.

Thanks a lot Clancie!

You know corplinx I am for one glad you did that. If the chinaman has no problem with being called a chinaman...then maybe people who aren't chinamen should have a glass of STFU and quit feining faux dismay over them being called chinaman.

Ralph

29th January 2004, 02:23 PM

DavidJames

29th January 2004, 02:25 PM

"Post of the Year"
I was thinking more along the lines of strawman of the year.

Clancie

29th January 2004, 02:41 PM

Posted by corplinx

I just asked the chinaman if chinaman was an offensive term and he asked "why would that be offensive?" and looked at me like I was a retard.

Thanks a lot Clancie!
Why not ask a Chinese-American, corplinx? Your friend hasn't been here that long (or grown up here) which could make quite a difference. He also may not have the complete array of language skills need to pick up on all the subtle historical, cultural and linguistic clues to prejudice.

I gave you a lnk, but people in this thread seem to be enjoying the ridicule angle...(Personally, I think the "humor" in this thread has been inane, but...just my opinon).

Another thing....In Chinese, "Chinaman" is a literal translation for "Chinese" just like "England man" is the literal translation for "Englishman"...its just how the characters go together, there are no other choices. So, if he is thinking of it that way, he wouldn't understand the history of the term.

If you really care if its derogatory, my recommendation is still to look at my link, look in a dictionary, or ask someone who's more likely to know.

Zep

29th January 2004, 02:44 PM

Zep

29th January 2004, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by ceo_esq
I'm reminded of some newspaper's recent observation about how tedious it becomes to be continually told that your country is doing it all wrong by people from countries lacking the competence, conviction or means to do it at all. OK, my wording was over the top. But sometimes it takes a bit of a jolt to make some people take a look in the mirror. All of us are not above this.

And it's a slippery slope fallacy that says one thing done wrong implies that all is being done wrong. We both know that is patently not true.

Oh, and also please don't assume that it is only the USA that has a total stranglehold on competence, conviction and means to do things on the world stage. That would be arrogant, no?

Perhaps your "some newspaper" should do a bit less parochial editorialising and a bit more educated research.

charley_bigtime

29th January 2004, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Zep
Perhaps more recently called "a googlie" in view of the inherent racism in the previous name? :)

Just for the sake of pedantry.

CHINAMAN:
A ball bowled by a left arm wrist spinner which spins into a right handed batsman.

GOOGLY (or wrong 'un)
A ball bowled by a wrist spinner that turns the opposite way.

Chinaman is specific, Googly generic.

A JAFFA is a is an unplayable delivery and also a name for a eunuch.

Or perhaps I've got it all wrong. Rugby is better anyway.

The Central Scrutinizer

29th January 2004, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by Clancie

Why not ask a Chinese-American, corplinx? Your friend hasn't been here that long (or grown up here) which could make quite a difference. He also may not have the complete array of language skills need to pick up on all the subtle historical, cultural and linguistic clues to prejudice.

I gave you a lnk, but people in this thread seem to be enjoying the ridicule angle...(Personally, I think the "humor" in this thread has been inane, but...just my opinon).

Another thing....In Chinese, "Chinaman" is a literal translation for "Chinese" just like "England man" is the literal translation for "Englishman"...its just how the characters go together, there are no other choices. So, if he is thinking of it that way, he wouldn't understand the history of the term.

If you really care if its derogatory, my recommendation is still to look at my link, look in a dictionary, or ask someone who's more likely to know.

:s2:

Dorian Gray

29th January 2004, 10:10 PM

"Individual from China" - now, on with the point.

a_unique_person

30th January 2004, 12:44 AM

shemp

30th January 2004, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by Chanileslie
That is still a bit sexist as guy is included and that nasty man word is back so it must be:

Perchilddibledprilegalorguyorgalguardianoffseahuth ingbeingofunspecifiedraceageorgender

Why you fishist! How dare you leave out all other fish species! The correct term is Ichthyoilddibledprilegalorguyorgalguardianoffseahu thingbeingofunspecifiedraceageorgender !

CFLarsen

30th January 2004, 05:09 AM

Originally posted by Clancie
Why not ask a Chinese-American, corplinx? Your friend hasn't been here that long (or grown up here) which could make quite a difference. He also may not have the complete array of language skills need to pick up on all the subtle historical, cultural and linguistic clues to prejudice.

I gave you a lnk, but people in this thread seem to be enjoying the ridicule angle...(Personally, I think the "humor" in this thread has been inane, but...just my opinon).

Another thing....In Chinese, "Chinaman" is a literal translation for "Chinese" just like "England man" is the literal translation for "Englishman"...its just how the characters go together, there are no other choices. So, if he is thinking of it that way, he wouldn't understand the history of the term.

If you really care if its derogatory, my recommendation is still to look at my link, look in a dictionary, or ask someone who's more likely to know.

I asked my American family, who also happens to be Chinese. Nobody gave a flying rice bowl.

Your next move, Clancie?

hammegk

30th January 2004, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Dorian Gray
"Individual from China" - now, on with the point.

Soon the 800# gorilla that China is becoming will want to be addressed as "sir".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61968-2004Jan29.html

Money quotes:
A China of 1.3 billion mostly impoverished people will influence only its immediate neighbors. A China that is the world's sixth-largest economy and fourth-largest exporter, with stunning economic growth rates (9.1 percent in 2003) and ambitions to excel in almost every technology, is something else entirely.
Its imports in 2003 rose 40 percent, or about $118 billion, says Lardy. Steel imports totaled 36 million metric tons, a record for any country and double the level of the late 1990s. "Most of that steel is coming from Korea and Japan -- even India is selling. . . . They're elated," says Lardy. In 2003 China accounted for 35 percent of the global growth in oil demand, he says. The Chinese appetite for metals raised copper prices 40 percent and lead prices 55 percent.

The 35% oil demand growth should scare anyone who has a clue as to the geopolitics of petroleum. You bunch? Who knows.

30th January 2004, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by GroundStrength

You know corplinx I am for one glad you did that. If the chinaman has no problem with being called a chinaman...then maybe people who aren't chinamen should have a glass of STFU and quit feining faux dismay over them being called chinaman.

A warning. I know a lot of people who were born in the USA to parents born in China. Every one of them would either be insulted or would write you off as uncultured.

Most of their parents would be, too. There is a history of things like signs reading "No dogs and chinese" that makes people a bit sensitive to this.

I don't dispute corps' experience, I'm just relating my own.

30th January 2004, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer

:s2:

Shame you're snoring. Clancie has the language points right. To someone for whom it would have no cultural meaning, "chinese man" would be the direct translation from Mandarin (something with no pejoritive sense), like I'd be a "white person". Of course, Yang Gwei, bai gwei, and Lo Fan might not be quite the same, but so it goes. :D

On the other hand, someone who's had an old lady from the midwest ask her husband "does she speak english" (referring to somebody born in Mississippi and raised in Colorado), the term "chinaman" might not be so well taken. The answer to that question was, in fact: Yes, do you speak Welsh? (the old lady was of distant Welsh extraction)

Such is life.

Skeptical Greg

30th January 2004, 12:58 PM

Never mind...

shemp

30th January 2004, 05:42 PM

I'll probably get reprimanded for this, but I can't resist:

Did you hear about the Chinese spy who broke into Buckingham Palace? Seems the guy got past the guards and into Prince Charles' personal chambers. He poked around for awhile looking for information, but he heard guards coming. With nowhere else to hide, he climbed into an ancient suit of mail nearby. But the guards found him anyway and arrested him. The next day, the headlines read "Guards Find Chink in Prince's Armor."

kerfer

30th January 2004, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
I really admire Asian folks. They are very clever and crafty, not to mention industrious.

You mean Russians?
Afghanis?
Turks?
Indians?
Uzbeks?
Pakistanis?
Tibetans?
Kurds?

:confused:

;)

Suddenly

30th January 2004, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by shemp
I'll probably get reprimanded for this, but I can't resist:

Did you hear about the Chinese spy who broke into Buckingham Palace? Seems the guy got past the guards and into Prince Charles' personal chambers. He poked around for awhile looking for information, but he heard guards coming. With nowhere else to hide, he climbed into an ancient suit of mail nearby. But the guards found him anyway and arrested him. The next day, the headlines read "Guards Find Chink in Prince's Armor."

That's it. You get the P.C. Cop's toughest punishment for that.

That's right. We are coming over to your house and blocking all T.V. Stations except for "Oxygen" and "BET."

You brought this on yourself. You may now beg for mercy.

-- Your friendly local P.C. Cop --

Ignatius

30th January 2004, 09:39 PM

Suddenly,

I was willing to dismiss your earlier Draconian suggestions of punishment as the overzealous reaction of a young, go-get-um PC officer.

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your understanding of "crual and unusual" would eventually win out over your immediate, primal over-reaction.

Then you posted this:

Originally posted by Suddenly

That's it. You get the P.C. Cop's toughest punishment for that.

That's right. We are coming over to your house and blocking all T.V. Stations except for "Oxygen" and "BET."

You brought this on yourself. You may now beg for mercy.

-- Your friendly local P.C. Cop --

Now I understand that you are nothing more than a garden variety sadist. I shall promptly bring this up with the Citizens PC Oversight Committee.

Good day, sir!

peptoabysmal

30th January 2004, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by Clancie
btw, corplinx, I don't know if you remember the students at Kent State University who were protesting during the Vietnam War and were shot and killed by the National Guard troops.

At the time, it was very easy to find people who had no problem at all with the Guard killing those students.

Brainwashing citizens to think that "my government is always right because they say they are" can happen anywhere.....

I don't remember anyone "at the time" who was not disturbed about that incident. Do you also remember the riot, what was it, the Friday before at Kent State and the burning down of the ROTC building? Tensions were very high at the time and you have one group armed and trained for war, not peacekeeping duties and another group who were rioting. Recipe for disaster, right there. The National Guard was there only because the peace officers were already overwhelmed.

Clancie

31st January 2004, 07:01 AM

Peptoabysmal,

Kent State Students Killed (http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/05/04/kent.state.02/)

The ROTC building had been burned the previous day, yes. But on May 4, the students who were killed weren't rioting. One was 250 yards from the Guardsman, on the way to class.

But, if they had been "rioting", would it have made killing them okay, iyo? :confused: And what about the killings at Jackson State? Can we find a rationalization for those, too?

a_unique_person

1st February 2004, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by peptoabysmal

I don't remember anyone "at the time" who was not disturbed about that incident. Do you also remember the riot, what was it, the Friday before at Kent State and the burning down of the ROTC building? Tensions were very high at the time and you have one group armed and trained for war, not peacekeeping duties and another group who were rioting. Recipe for disaster, right there. The National Guard was there only because the peace officers were already overwhelmed.

And there was only a riot because people didn't want to be sent off to die in a stupid war, well, those that didn't have friends in high places to pull some strings for them.

Frank Newgent

4th February 2004, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
I really admire Asian folks. They are very clever and crafty, not to mention industrious.

http://www.origamiboulder.com/

crackmonkey

4th February 2004, 10:56 PM

A Vietnamese coworker of mine used the epithet 'Chink' in my presence - without a trace of irony, he was referring to a generic oriental.
I was unable to decide whether to chide him for ignorant racism or to console him for the obvious White Oppression that had branded this foul term into his consciousness.
What to do?

CFLarsen

4th February 2004, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by Clancie
Peptoabysmal,

Kent State Students Killed (http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/05/04/kent.state.02/)

The ROTC building had been burned the previous day, yes. But on May 4, the students who were killed weren't rioting. One was 250 yards from the Guardsman, on the way to class.

But, if they had been "rioting", would it have made killing them okay, iyo? :confused: And what about the killings at Jackson State? Can we find a rationalization for those, too?

Not so fast, Clancie.

Some students were throwing rocks. (http://dept.kent.edu/ksumay4/welcome.htm)

Despite the substantial literature which exists on the Kent State shootings, misinformation and misunderstanding continue to surround the events of May 4. For example, a prominent college-level United States history book by Mary Beth Norton et al. (1994), which is also used in high school advanced placement courses,(2) contains a picture of the shootings of May 4 accompanied by the following summary of events: "In May 1970, at Kent State University in Ohio, National Guardsmen confronted student antiwar protestors with a tear gas barrage. Soon afterward, with no provocation, soldiers opened fire into a group of fleeing students. Four young people were killed, shot in the back, including two women who had been walking to class." (Norton et al., 1994, p. 732) Unfortunately, this short description contains four factual errors: (1) some degree of provocation did exist; (2) the students were not fleeing when the Guard initially opened fire; (3) only one of the four students who died, William Schroeder, was shot in the back; and (4) one female student, Sandy Schreuer, had been walking to class, but the other female, Allison Krause, had been part of the demonstration.

...

Yelling and rock throwing reached a peak as the Guard remained on the field for about ten minutes. Several Guardsmen could be seen huddling together, and some Guardsmen knelt and pointed their guns, but no weapons were shot at this time. The Guard then began retracing their steps from the practice football field back up Blanket Hill. As they arrived at the top of the hill, twenty-eight of the more than seventy Guardsmen turned suddenly and fired their rifles and pistols. Many guardsmen fired into the air or the ground. However, a small portion fired directly into the crowd. Altogether between 61 and 67 shots were fired in a 13 second period.

...

Four Kent State students died as a result of the firing by the Guard. The closest student was Jeffrey Miller, who was shot in the mouth while standing in an access road leading into the Prentice Hall parking lot, a distance of approximately 270 feet from the Guard. Allison Krause was in the Prentice Hall parking lot; she was 330 feet from the Guardsmen and was shot in the left side of her body. William Schroeder was 390 feet from the Guard in the Prentice Hall parking lot when he was shot in the left side of his back. Sandra Scheuer was also about 390 feet from the Guard in the Prentice Hall parking lot when a bullet pierced the left front side of her neck.

Source: THE MAY 4 SHOOTINGS AT KENT STATE UNIVERSITY: THE SEARCH
FOR HISTORICAL ACCURACY (http://dept.kent.edu/sociology/lewis/lewihen.htm)
(Emphasis mine)

We are not talking about some cold-blooded killers here, who wanted to shoot someone from the get-go. We are talking about a situation, spanning several days of rioting (following years of civil unrest, all over the country) that went bad and people got hurt.

It was an extremely tense situation, Clancie. Nobody is saying that this was a good thing. There is absolutely no need for you to point your moralistic finger at anyone.

But if you absolutely want to, at least get the facts right.