Oklahoma Considering State-Sanctioned Tea Party 'Militia'

[GreNME]

I kid you not. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_militia)

These knuckleheads are aiming to "to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty."

The irony: this is the same state where one of the most devastating domestic terror attacks in US history was perpetrated by an anti-government right-wing extremist, and now a populist anti-government right-wing extremist group is looking for state sanction to "defend" (translation: attack) the federal government.

The hubris: as poor as the state of OK is, if they ever tried to fund such a militia it would be at least in part paid for using federal tax dollars given to the state (a form of "welfare" and "wealth redistribution") that was paid by the more commerce and wealth-rich states, like those liberal (North)East and West coast states that certain TP celebrities have implied aren't "real Americans."

The tragedy: I'm sure there will likely be people who will actually consider this a good idea.

[tyr_13]

It's good to know that Oklahoma won't be running out of fertilizer this year.

Seriously, they cite the fact that they can't get their ideas through politically, so they're going to make a militia? That's a big bitchslap these 'Constitutionalists' are giving democracy there.

[Bob Blaylock]

The irony: this is the same state where one of the most devastating domestic terror attacks in US history was perpetrated by an anti-government right-wing extremist, and now a populist anti-government right-wing extremist group is looking for state sanction to "defend" (translation: attack) the federal government.


Irony on top of irony. Up until the terrorist attack of which you speak, the most devastating domestic terrorist attack to have taken place in the United States was perpetrated by the federal government itself. McVeigh cited this as his reason for carrying out his attack, in which he murdered about twice as many innocent people as the federal government had murdered in the terrorist attack which McVeigh thought he was avenging.

[GreNME]

Your woo is noted, Mr. Blaylock.

Really, that you have to make an argument defending McVeigh's actions to try to make a (fallacious tu quoque) point shows just how ridiculous an argument in favor of what the TP-ers are trying to do in Oklahoma truly is.

[ponderingturtle]

I kid you not. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_militia)

These knuckleheads are aiming to "to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty."

Cool, it is nice to see states preparing for civil war.

[tyr_13]

I'm predicting insurgent violence that drives people screaming away from the movement.

[BenBurch]

Cool, it is nice to see states preparing for civil war.

We're ready in Illinois. We have nukes. ;-)

[GreNME]

I'm predicting insurgent violence that drives people screaming away from the movement.

http://image.grenme.com/thread/this.gif

The more I see things like this taking place in the Tea Party and extreme political circles, the more I see the likelihood that these knobs with the megaphones or at the decision-making tables are over-playing their hands. Keep walking right up to the edge of violence with a group of people who are being driven by anger, and sooner or later one or more of those angry followers are going to cross the line.

[Bob Blaylock]

Your woo is noted, Mr. Blaylock.

Really, that you have to make an argument defending McVeigh's actions to try to make a (fallacious tu quoque) point shows just how ridiculous an argument in favor of what the TP-ers are trying to do in Oklahoma truly is.


I wasn't defending McVeigh's actions. I was merely pointing out that he claimed, as his motive for committing a horrendous act of terrorism, a perceived need to avenge a previous horrendous act of terrorism that had been carried out by the government. He was certainly correct in identifying the torture and murder of approximately eighty members of an unusual religious cult in Texas for what it truly was.

But ultimately, McVeigh's act was to commit an even greater crime, than the one he felt he was avenging. Approximately eighty innocent civilians were murdered in the previous act of terrorism, so McVeigh murdered approximately twice that many innocent civilians. This makes him no better than the criminals who were responsible for the attack in Texas. The only real difference is that McVeigh ultimately was held accountable for his crime.

[rwguinn]

I wasn't defending McVeigh's actions. I was merely pointing out that he claimed, as his motive for committing a horrendous act of terrorism, a perceived need to avenge a previous horrendous act of terrorism that had been carried out by the government. He was certainly correct in identifying the torture and murder of approximately eighty members of an unusual religious cult in Texas for what it truly was.

But ultimately, McVeigh's act was to commit an even greater crime, than the one he felt he was avenging. Approximately eighty innocent civilians were murdered in the previous act of terrorism, so McVeigh murdered approximately twice that many innocent civilians. This makes him no better than the criminals who were responsible for the attack in Texas. The only real difference is that McVeigh ultimately was held accountable for his crime.
Wow.
Just...Wow.:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp

[mortimer]

I read the thread and story expecting that the militia would be formed by and of Tea Partiers. Imagine my surprise when I found the title of the thread to be completely misleading and inflammatory.

It's still an idiotic thing for the state of land thieves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sooners) to even consider.

[KingMerv00]

Cool, it is nice to see states preparing for civil war.

My money is on the REAL military. You know, the one with the AC-130s, daisy cutters, and nuclear submarines.

[tyr_13]

My money is on the REAL military. You know, the one with the AC-130s, daisy cutters, and nuclear submarines.

Yes, but how do you get them to Oklahoma?

[KingMerv00]

Yes, but how do you get them to Oklahoma?

The Gulf of Mexico is 650 miles away. Tomahawk missles have a range of 1500 miles.

[Spindrift]

Yes, but how do you get them to Oklahoma?

They really don't have to get too close. They can launch Tridents from the Atlantic or Pacific and easily hit anywhere in Oklahoma.

[NWO Sentryman]

are Call of Duty Jokes acceptable here?

[mortimer]

I say we take off and nuke the entire state from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[INRM]

I just hope that this doesn't end up being used to justify a crack down on all dissidents

[BobTheDonkey]

Yes, but how do you get them to Oklahoma?

There's a naval base in OKC ;)... Ok, so it's a shared base with the AF...but it's still a full-fledged naval base...

[Dorian Gray]

Gives a whole new meaning to "with the fringe on top".

[GreNME]

I wasn't defending McVeigh's actions. I was merely pointing out that he claimed, as his motive for committing a horrendous act of terrorism, a perceived need to avenge a previous horrendous act of terrorism that had been carried out by the government. He was certainly correct in identifying the torture and murder of approximately eighty members of an unusual religious cult in Texas for what it truly was.

Per the highlighted text, you are defending McVeigh's claimed motivations. So you're using conspiracy theorist nonsense to try to make a defense. The Conspiracy Theory subforum is thataway---> (http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=91)

But ultimately, McVeigh's act was to commit an even greater crime, than the one he felt he was avenging. Approximately eighty innocent civilians were murdered in the previous act of terrorism, so McVeigh murdered approximately twice that many innocent civilians. This makes him no better than the criminals who were responsible for the attack in Texas. The only real difference is that McVeigh ultimately was held accountable for his crime.

The jihadis on 9/11 stated as their motivations things like the support of Israel's actions against the Palestinians, the imposition of American military forces on Saudi soil, and the mistreatment of Mid-Eastern Muslims through unethical business dealings and unfair diplomatic manipulation. That in no way justifies anything about the actions on 9/11, because much like McVeigh's motivations they are made up of ideological baloney that has little (read: pretty much zero) basis in fact and were built on paranoid, extremist, fundamentalist woo and not rational critical thinking.

So feel free to keep banging that drum, Mr. Blaylock. However, using conspiracy theory falsehoods to try to defend what is essentially a contradictory, hypocritical, anti-government idea being floated by the TP-ers in Oklahoma really doesn't make the Tea Party or Oklahoman legislators (or yourself) seem any more rational, intelligent, or in any way reasonable in terms of motivation or logic.

[tyr_13]

I read the thread and story expecting that the militia would be formed by and of Tea Partiers. Imagine my surprise when I found the title of the thread to be completely misleading and inflammatory.

It's still an idiotic thing for the state of land thieves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sooners) to even consider.


What were you led to believe by the title? It seems to be an accurate title. From the article...



Tea party movement leaders say they've discussed the idea with several supportive lawmakers and hope to get legislation next year to recognize a new volunteer force. They say the unit would not resemble militia groups that have been raided for allegedly plotting attacks on law enforcement officers.

"Is it scary? It sure is," said tea party leader Al Gerhart of Oklahoma City, who heads an umbrella group of tea party factions called the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance. "But when do the states stop rolling over for the federal government?"

Highlights mine.

[KingMerv00]

I just hope that this doesn't end up being used to justify a crack down on all dissidents

:rolleyes:

[GreNME]

I read the thread and story expecting that the militia would be formed by and of Tea Partiers. Imagine my surprise when I found the title of the thread to be completely misleading and inflammatory.

Gee, you're totally right... except for everything you said in the quote above. This post (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5915471#post5915471) points out why your accusation is completely false. So, unless you have some sort of evidence that the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance isn't a TP-affiliated organization, you may want to re-think your reading comprehension skills.

[Manopolus]

Oklahoma, OK


Yep, Oklahoma is that crazy. I remember a conversation in a bar somewhere in eastern Oklahoma where some guy said that the only thing the OKC bombers did wrong was accidentally kill a few kids. If it was only adults, I guess the guy thought it was OK. There's some genuine wackos out there.

[Darth Rotor]

There's a naval base in OKC ;)... Ok, so it's a shared base with the AF...but it's still a full-fledged naval base...

IIRC, that's a Naval Air Station (you refer to Tinker, do you not?)

There is some small irony here that our friends north of the Red River may be missing out on ...

The First Militia act of 1792 was to federalize the militia. So, if Congress federalizes these new Militia ... can we chuckle a bit? ;)

Likewise, we can consider Title 10 ...

TITLE 10 A PART I CHAPTER 13 § 311 § 311.

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The official classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

(Note:The Militia Act of 1903 declares the militia to be every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age who are not members of the National Guard or Naval Militia, which is ... anyone who would be eligible for a draft).

In passing I note the similarity to

Second Militia Act of 1792
, ... passed May 8, 1792, provided for the organization of the state militias. It conscripted every "free able-bodied white male citizen" between the ages of 18 and 45 into a local militia company overseen by the state. [/quote}
Bloody tyrannical Founding Fathers! :p

Militia members were required to arm themselves at their own expense with a musket, bayonet and belt, two spare flints, a cartridge box with 24 bullets, and a knapsack. Men owning rifles were required to provide a powder horn, 1/4 pound of gun powder, 20 rifle balls, a shooting pouch, and a knapsack.

Some occupations were exempt, such as congressmen, stagecoach drivers, and ferryboatmen.

So, we have the unorganized militia in Oklahoma trying to get organized. This should be good fun, but make sure none of them congressmen try to sneak into your unit. Nor stagecoach drivers.

DR

[uk_dave]

I just hope that this doesn't end up being used to justify a crack down on all dissidents

You know, I'm pretty certain that if I were to go back through your posting history.......

[MattusMaximus]

The tragedy: I'm sure there will likely be people who will actually consider this a good idea.

Yup, and I'm sure that once those loons get some real power and start making absolutely idiotic decisions that negatively impact the rest of OK, then the residents of OK will be really happy about it.

:popcorn1

[CORed]

Irony on top of irony. Up until the terrorist attack of which you speak, the most devastating domestic terrorist attack to have taken place in the United States was perpetrated by the federal government itself. McVeigh cited this as his reason for carrying out his attack, in which he murdered about twice as many innocent people as the federal government had murdered in the terrorist attack which McVeigh thought he was avenging.

This makes sense if you substitute "law enforcement action gone horribly wrong" for the second and third use "terrorist attack".

As written, it makes no sense at all.

[dudalb]

I kid you not. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_militia)

These knuckleheads are aiming to "to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty."

The irony: this is the same state where one of the most devastating domestic terror attacks in US history was perpetrated by an anti-government right-wing extremist, and now a populist anti-government right-wing extremist group is looking for state sanction to "defend" (translation: attack) the federal government.

The hubris: as poor as the state of OK is, if they ever tried to fund such a militia it would be at least in part paid for using federal tax dollars given to the state (a form of "welfare" and "wealth redistribution") that was paid by the more commerce and wealth-rich states, like those liberal (North)East and West coast states that certain TP celebrities have implied aren't "real Americans."

The tragedy: I'm sure there will likely be people who will actually consider this a good idea.

Wow, that sure worked GREAT in the 1860's......

[dudalb]

Irony on top of irony. Up until the terrorist attack of which you speak, the most devastating domestic terrorist attack to have taken place in the United States was perpetrated by the federal government itself. McVeigh cited this as his reason for carrying out his attack, in which he murdered about twice as many innocent people as the federal government had murdered in the terrorist attack which McVeigh thought he was avenging.

Your de facto justification for Mc Veigh is noted.

As is your later ignoring exactly what David Koresh was up to. Yes, the Waco compount situation was horribly handled, but that does not make Koresh a innocent.

[dudalb]

Wow.
Just...Wow.:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp

Please note rwguinn is a conservtive on most issues, and he find Blaylock's rant to be way over the top.

[mortimer]

What were you led to believe by the title? It seems to be an accurate title.
Just what I said... "I read the thread and story expecting that the militia would be formed by and of Tea Partiers." That the teabaggers are behind the legislation doesn't make it a "State-Sanctioned Tea Party Militia".

I do agree that it's a stupid, and possibly dangerous, idea.

[BenBurch]

I just hope that this doesn't end up being used to justify a crack down on all dissidents

We must neutralize all free radicals.

[KingMerv00]

We must neutralize all free radicals.

Neutral free radicals must be charged.

[dudalb]

Fort Sill might be a problem to the Miltia.........

[rwguinn]

Please note rwguinn is a conservtive on most issues, and he find Blaylock's rant to be way over the top.
conservative != lost his mind:D

ETA: BTW-Thanks. I defended Obama elsewhere and was soundly trounced by thye librulz for it...

[fuelair]

My money is on the REAL military. You know, the one with the AC-130s, daisy cutters, and nuclear submarines.

Hmmm, fuelair bombs over OK. I hear faint music just over yon cornfield........"OOOOOak-la homa where the fire comes sweeping through the plains, mini-guns leave tracks o'er shotguns and ax as those TP fans just die in vain........":D:jaw-dropp

[dudalb]

The Gulf of Mexico is 650 miles away. Tomahawk missles have a range of 1500 miles.

Fort Sill, the US Army's main Artillery training center, is located in Oklahoma. As an ex Redleg,I can tell you you won't need any Tomahawk missiles. A 155MM shell will do the job just as well......

[Darth Rotor]

Fort Sill, the US Army's main Artillery training center, is located in Oklahoma. As an ex Redleg,I can tell you you won't need any Tomahawk missiles. A 155MM shell will do the job just as well......

Not to mention MLRS and ATACMS ... :eek: