These are the people that UCE cheered for the death of (long)

(Circa 3000 lines removed)

Well, if he's sorry, I guess that makes everything just fine. :rolleyes:

[rikzilla]

Sundog,...

Geoff said he was sorry. We all make crazy statements from time to time. His was pretty damned crazy...but coming from a "warmongering right wing nutcase" like me this might carry a little weight.

Cut the guy some slack.

-zilla

sundog.

Yours is one of the voices from America that gives me hope. I wish there were more Americans willing to express opinions like yours.

Geoff.

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by sundog

(Circa 3000 lines removed)

Well, if he's sorry, I guess that makes everything just fine. :rolleyes:

Sundog,

The respect that I ever had for you is gone.
Your tactics are dirty and disgusting.

Q-S

[Hazelip]

What the hell is this all about?

[subgenius]

Inquiring minds want to know what's dirty and disgusting?

[Aoidoi]

Hey, it's only dirty and disgusting if it's done right! (apologies to Woody Allen)

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Aoidoi
Hey, it's only dirty and disgusting if it's done right! (apologies to Woody Allen)
Thanks for reminding me of that one. My favorite quotes are Woodyisms.
Don't mess with my brain its my second favorite organ.

"The heart wants what it wants." (more Woody)

Suck the poison out!

"That's a BIG chicken..." (Woody...)

Genius.

Originally posted by sundog

(Circa 3000 lines removed)

Well, if he's sorry, I guess that makes everything just fine. :rolleyes:

I don't get it. What's the joke?

[a_unique_person]

my guess is the list of people killed in the WTC

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Hazelip
What the hell is this all about?

Simple...

In another thread ( http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14787&perpage=40&pagenumber=2) undercover elephant made the comment that he 'cheered when the wtc came down', because he felt that America needed to be taught a lesson or something. (He thinks America is evil or something, and doesn't like the fact that they didn't sign on to Kyoto.)

Now, in a later post, he said that he didn't REALLY cheer, he was horrified. But the damage is already done.

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Segnosaur

Now, in a later post, he said that he didn't REALLY cheer, he was horrified. But the damage is already done.

You guys are trying to misrepresent UCE's real opinion about the WTC tragedy. He is one of the most pacifist and humanist persons I have found in this forum.

You all forget his posts about peace and environmental issues and bring this unfortunate comment that he said in a bad moment.

Segnosaur, please don't use UCE's words in your sig.

Q-S

[Doctor X]

Oh my. . . .

I missed the thread in question.

I am afraid it is hard to misconstrue sentiments this specific:

I cheered when then the WTC came down. I saw it as the first real sign of hope for the world. Finally somebody had provided a message to the US in the only language it is capable of understanding - that of violence and dollars.

I am not interested in dissecting them, frankly.

What is necessary, if, as Q-Source states they are not valid representations of the individual's actual opinion, is for him to apologize.

--J.D.

Originally posted by Doctor X
Oh my. . . .

I missed the thread in question.

I am afraid it is hard to misconstrue sentiments this specific:



I am not interested in dissecting them, frankly.

What is necessary, if, as Q-Source states they are not valid representations of the individual's actual opinion, is for him to apologize.

--J.D.

I already withdrew the comment, and I will apologise now for any offence caused by that comment. I did not cheer when the WTC came down. All avoidable loss of human life is tragic.

As for the rest of the comment - it may have been politically unwise to voice my opinion, but I don't feel it was neccesarily inaccurate to state that the only language America will really listen to is violence and money. One look at the events of the past two years seems to confirm that view in spades.

[Plutarck]

Dirty, discusting, and entirely low-down debating tactic, sundog.

...I like it. It was great, though not seing the whole list made it not nearly so powerful an effective. That and I didn't really know what you were talking about

*sings*

"You'll take the high road,
And I'll take the low road,
And I'll be in Scotland before ye..."


*ahem* While I am not for endlessly and pointlessly beating people in the head for something unwisely said, I am not so against it when they appear to really mean it and attempt real weasel-cum-politician style "apologies" - which translate more like "Oops, shouldn't have said that outloud! Don't hurt me! Don't hurt me!"

I won't dissect the issue to figure out which is which, and will leave it to those more directly interested in the matter.

[crackmonkey]

...so you apologize for stating your politically incorrect opinions? You regret the lives lost, but you feel that it was worth it somehow to teach the US a lesson?

Originally posted by crackmonkey
...so you apologize for stating your politically incorrect opinions?


I apologized for making a false statement for the deliberate purposes of being inflammatory.


You regret the lives lost, but you feel that it was worth it somehow to teach the US a lesson?

I like to hope that in the long run it will trigger a process which sees a desperately needed greater awareness from Americans about their relationship with the rest of the world. I am not sure this process would have started without something on the scale of 9/11. I believe we live in a world where radical change is needed, and maybe 9/11 could be the start of a process of bringing down an old way of doing things that does not work any more and replacing it with new ways of living in peace with ourselves and our environment.

Plutark :

I stand by my comment about America listening only to violence and money. I believe it to be justified. At the end of the day if a nation attempts to use military force and trade/money control to build a global empire, then that nation should not be so dumbfounded when somebody comes along and replies in exactly the same language. Is this not true?

[Shaun from Scotland]

Wow.

I have read some utterly despicable sh*t on this noticeboard.

UCE makes a bad comment, apologises and still gets a hard time.

Someone else makes a bad comment, doesn't apologise, donates some money and gets his very own little thread about what a nice guy he is.

Bye JREF it's been swell knowing you all...........

[Doctor X]

I already withdrew the comment, and I will apologise now for any offence caused by that comment. I did not cheer when the WTC came down. All avoidable loss of human life is tragic.

Very well.

. . . but I don't feel it was neccesarily inaccurate to state that the only language America will really listen to is violence and money. One look at the events of the past two years seems to confirm that view in spades.

On the contrary, the events of the past two years rebut this bias.

--J.D.

[Plutarck]

Originally posted by UndercoverElephant
Plutark :

I stand by my comment about America listening only to violence and money. I believe it to be justified. At the end of the day if a nation attempts to use military force and trade/money control to build a global empire, then that nation should not be so dumbfounded when somebody comes along and replies in exactly the same language. Is this not true?

There, now that was much better.

And to your comment directly, it is considerably more inline with my observations and thinking; that is, no it isn't really surprising, regardless of how bad it is (depending upon the length of time within one does the measuring, and what precisely is being measured). It doesn't shock me at all that people all over the world have a variety of beefs with the american government, and that some of them find them compelling enough, and their belief systems are permitting enough, to permit just about any scale of slaughter they can muster.

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland
Wow.

I have read some utterly despicable **** on this noticeboard.

UCE makes a bad comment, apologises and still gets a hard time.

Someone else makes a bad comment, doesn't apologise, donates some money and gets his very own little thread about what a nice guy he is.

Bye JREF it's been swell knowing you all...........

Is meeting drama with more drama really the best answer available?

JK is very probably a nice guy. His posts can be nutty and inflammatory, but I've read him for quite a while and think he says a lot of what he does just to pull chains and amuse himself with the reactions. Trollish? Yah, but he adds to the forum spiciness.

UCE has said many things I am forced to agree with, and I don't believe his post was intended as anything other than an outrageous statement designed to get reaction.

Let's not be too damning, folks. We're all of us human, faulted, and probably very nice people...

[Doctor X]

I am sure there are some who may wonder why I have not used language "a triffle on the harsh side of strict" on Jedi Knight after the decimation wrought upon some unfortunates on another section.

Those so treated behaved in such a manner that required such severe remonstration.

Thus far, while I have disagreed with Jedi Knight--we come from Mars?--he has not descended with me to a personal level.

Let me rephrase that. . . .

He has not engaged in argumentum ad hominem with me and some of the other rather ungentlemanly fallacies.

I found Undercover Elephant's word completely offensive. He made a mistake. Understand, though, the severity of the mistake.

This was one that would really merit offense compared to calling someone a "moron" over whether or not a deity exists or if it is Michael Jackson's face on Mars.

Of course that would explain some things. . . .

Nevertheless, I can accept Undercover Elephant's apology as I can accept that it will take some time for other feelings to cool.

--J.D.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Shaun from Scotland
Wow.

I have read some utterly despicable **** on this noticeboard.

UCE makes a bad comment, apologises and still gets a hard time.

Someone else makes a bad comment, doesn't apologise, donates some money and gets his very own little thread about what a nice guy he is.

Bye JREF it's been swell knowing you all...........
Money talks and its persuasive ......Elvis Costello.
"Trollish? Yah, but he adds to the forum spiciness."
--Thorin
No, my friend, it drags the level of discussion down to anti-skepticism=wild speculation=delusion=hatred/ignorance.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by sundog

(Circa 3000 lines removed)

Well, if he's sorry, I guess that makes everything just fine. :rolleyes:
I agree on calling people out when they're deserving of it.
Please tell me when my sh*t stinks.
Its called a reality check.

[Girl 6]

Come on, cool down people.

UCE has apologized. We all say things in the heat of the moment. Evaluate him on his history and not on one offense.

And, Shaun, please, please stay. I'm tired of seeing people run away when it gets tough around here. Everytime someone lieaves I feel like I've failed in some way. I know that doesn't makes any sense, but it's how I feel.

Believe me, it's been worse. Just stay, okay? One incident like this should make you stronger and want to stay to defend and debate your position.

thanks!
G6

Originally posted by Q-Source


Sundog,

The respect that I ever had for you is gone.
Your tactics are dirty and disgusting.

Q-S

As these are the first words you've ever directed at me, I was unaware that you had any respect for me. I am less than devastated.

I am surprised that this thread is still around. Rik asked that I reconsider; I did, and erased the 3000 names. End of story, except for the drama-deprived like yourself.

Q-Source, I happily join the growing number of people on this forum whom you disrespect. They seem to include anyone who has even a minor disagreement with you.

Let's let this die. UCE has apologized (I didn't see his apology before I posted this).

I reject the idea that my posting of the 3000 names was dirty pool of any sort.

Originally posted by UndercoverElephant
sundog.

Yours is one of the voices from America that gives me hope. I wish there were more Americans willing to express opinions like yours.

Geoff.

UCE,

I apologize for letting your remarks enrage me. I hope you understand a little better just what an open wound 9/11 is for all of us Americans.

[rikzilla]

Sundog...

Thanks for reconsidering. Geoff did deserve it....but hey, we all say stuff we regret ya know? :( I know you and I have not seen eye to eye either...honestly I appreciate the chance to interact here with people of opposing opinions. I respect you, Wayne, Geoff, and Vic a great deal. You are all honest and thoughtful people whom I just happen to disagree with very much. ;)

Don't take Q-S to heart...he has no track record as an honest and thoughtful poster here....If I were you I'd be more concerned with how people here that you have respect for yourself think of you. This place has plenty of trolls and nuts....from every part of the political spectrum. :rolleyes:

-zilla

Originally posted by rikzilla
Sundog...

Thanks for reconsidering. Geoff did deserve it....but hey, we all say stuff we regret ya know?
-zilla

Gee, not me. :D

As originator of this thread I politely request that it now be either locked, deleted entirely or BORBed.