Bomb Hit WTC Before Plane? 9/11

[Resolver]

What are good refutations to all the supposed eye witness testimonies that say they heard/experienced bomb effects in basement of WTC before the planes hit?

I'm not able to post links yet, but if you replace the * with a . there is a video with these testimonies.

youtube * com/watch?v=NLlMXkWW_LM&feature=player_embedded#!

One good one I noticed is from about 4:14 to 5:00

[Redtail]

What are good refutations to all the supposed eye witness testimonies that say they heard/experienced bomb effects in basement of WTC before the planes hit?

I'm not able to post links yet, but if you replace the * with a . there is a video with these testimonies.

youtube * com/watch?v=NLlMXkWW_LM&feature=player_embedded#!

One good one I noticed is from about 4:14 to 5:00Sound travels faster through steel than air.

[AJM8125]

These days, when a truther ask such questions, it is probably best to whack the truther with a rolled up newspaper, give him a wedgie and send him on his way.

But I'm certainly not advocating that.

[Resolver]

Oh, ya, that's true.

I watched this pretty carefully. Many if not all of it can be explained in that:

Shock waves travels faster through steel than sound travels through air

In fact, it would be strange NOT to hear and experience an explosive-like shock eg at the bottom of the building as the shock from the plane travels down to the base.

[A W Smith]

What are good refutations to all the supposed eye witness testimonies that say they heard/experienced bomb effects in basement of WTC before the planes hit?

I'm not able to post links yet, but if you replace the * with a . there is a video with these testimonies.

youtube * com/watch?v=NLlMXkWW_LM&feature=player_embedded#!

One good one I noticed is from about 4:14 to 5:00

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5959984&postcount=2603

[Dave Rogers]

Another point to note is that, if they were in the basement, they couldn't have known exactly when the planes hit; they just heard two different-sounding bangs, and filled in the blanks themselves.

Dave

[Resolver]

CT making this point. Please suggest refutations:

"One question that shuts everyone up.....they say the building temperature was well over a thousand degrees. thats why the metal melted and the building collapsed....i ask you then.....how is it the temperature was well over a thousand degrees yet there were people waving for help right out of the hole made by the plane. why didn't they burn with the building metal. if it was that hot they would have burned to death."

I suppose the heat was localized, and the hot air and flames were barred/slowed from traveling to building perimeter in some places by the interior walls and such.

[AJM8125]

1. Sane people don't claim the steel got to its melting point, truthers do.

2. One person, Edna Cintron, is seen waiving for help from the impact zone shortly before she jumped. To paraphrase one of the first responders, "you gotta wonder how bad it is up there if they're jumping out."

And lastly Resolver, this board does have have a subforum dedicated to everything 9/11. You might want to mosey over, the answers you're looking for can be found there. Many. Times. Over.

http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=64

[Dave Rogers]

Two things on this one. Firstly, the temperatures rose over a significant period of time as a result of the fires, and the photo of Edna Cintron was taken very early on before they'd got that high. Secondly, the impacts pushed a lot of the combustible material away from the entry holes, so the highest temperatures were actually on the far side of the building. Both the collapses initiated with buckling of the columns opposite the point where the planes hit, for the same reason. So she was standing in the coolest part of the structure, before the heat had risen to intolerable levels.

We know the heat rose to intolerable levels later, because there's a picture of her falling after jumping from the building. Don't look for it if you value a good night's sleep.

BTW, all this is covered in one thread or another in the 9/11 CT forum, which is where this one belongs. I'll ask the moderators to move it.

Dave

[Alferd_Packer]

Speaking of basements, can we move this thread to the appropriate sub-forum?

[Resolver]

Am I able to do that? Or can only the moderator?

[MikeW]

"One question that shuts everyone up.....they say the building temperature was well over a thousand degrees. thats why the metal melted and the building collapsed....i ask you then.....how is it the temperature was well over a thousand degrees yet there were people waving for help right out of the hole made by the plane. why didn't they burn with the building metal. if it was that hot they would have burned to death."
This question "shuts everyone up"? What a joke.

The answer can be found in the NIST fire simulations. Ask this person what temperature they show for the area of the impact hole. When they dodge the question, ask them how they can criticise the "official story" when they don't have the faintest idea what that actually is.

[A W Smith]

Am I able to do that? Or can only the moderator?
Yes you can do it yourself by "reporting" your original post requesting the thread be moved to AAH, Then the mods will move it for you to the appropriate sub forum.

[Bell]

A bomb exploded in the basement of the WTC 8 years before the planes hit.

[Thunder]

What are good refutations to all the supposed eye witness testimonies that say they heard/experienced bomb effects in basement of WTC before the planes hit?


um.....how many people say they saw/heard an explosion in the WTC basement before the plane hit?

and Mr. Rodriguez was in the basement when the plane hit. So it was IMPOSSIBLE for him to know that the explosion he felt or heard was before the plane hit. He is totally full of **** and an attention whore...with a capital W.

[Thunder]

CT making this point. Please suggest refutations:

"One question that shuts everyone up.....they say the building temperature was well over a thousand degrees. thats why the metal melted

CT just debunked himself. No one has ever argued that the floor trusses melted. All they had to do was lose maybe 50% of their strength..and they collapse.

That did not require steel melting temperatures....but Truthers know this already.

They just like to play stupid and deny it.

[grandmastershek]

This question "shuts everyone up"? What a joke.



translated into reality: after he says that he shoves his fingers in his ears and dances around yelling "LA LA LA LA LA!!!".

[Resume]

translated into reality: after he says that he shoves his fingers in his ears and dances around yelling "LA LA LA LA LA!!!".

And his fingers meet in the middle.

[dafydd]

And his fingers meet in the middle.

That reminds me of an insult from my days as a schoolboy in Wales,I'll spit in your ear and drown your brain! In the case of truthers it wouldn't take a lot of saliva.

[Dave Rogers]

translated into reality: after he says that he shoves his fingers in his ears and dances around yelling "LA LA LA LA LA!!!".And his fingers meet in the middle.

Nominated for pith.

Dave

[fagin]

Is this part of another argument with your holocaust denying friends?

Do I smell troll under the bridge?

[Panoply_Prefect]

I'm still amazed, nay, indeed flabberghasted by the fact that truthers still hasn't grasped what it would take for a person to stand at the entry hole, with no railing whatsoever, some hundred floors up in a building.

Do they think Edna stands there because its fun to finally being able to enjoy an un-obscure view?

Truthers: Its_because_she_is_forced_to. And let me tell you, its not the NWO-guards forcing her.

And they call us sheep.

[Brattus]

I'm still amazed, nay, indeed flabberghasted by the fact that truthers still hasn't grasped what it would take for a person to stand at the entry hole, with no railing whatsoever, some hundred floors up in a building.

Do they think Edna stands there because its fun to finally being able to enjoy an un-obscure view?

Truthers: Its_because_she_is_forced_to. And let me tell you, its not the NWO-guards forcing her.

And they call us sheep.

This post sums it all up!
With the truthers the victims are just things to discuss right along with rivers of molten steel and super nano thermite.

That really pisses me off!

[Nursedan]

To the OP-

The people in the basements could not have known that a bomb had exploded before the planes hit because if they were in the basement they would have no idea that a plane had hit. There would be no reference point in time for them to look to.

Put yourself in their shoes. You're 50 feet or so below ground level and you hear a strange sound above you, feel the building shake, and see fire coming from the elevator shaft. One could realistically assume a bomb had been detonated. Only later would you know that no, it wasn't a bomb, it was a plane 1000 feet above you that slammed into the building.

Reasonable, rational people accept this. Irrational people with an agenda, like Willie Rodriguez, do not.

[Thunder]

To the OP-

The people in the basements could not have known that a bomb had exploded before the planes hit because if they were in the basement they would have no idea that a plane had hit. There would be no reference point in time for them to look to.

Reasonable, rational people accept this. Irrational people with an agenda, like Willie Rodriguez, do not.

yup.

[dafydd]

This post sums it all up!
With the truthers the victims are just things to discuss right along with rivers of molten steel and super nano thermite.

That really pisses me off!

Sickening isn't it?

[phunk]

To the OP-

The people in the basements could not have known that a bomb had exploded before the planes hit because if they were in the basement they would have no idea that a plane had hit. There would be no reference point in time for them to look to.

Put yourself in their shoes. You're 50 feet or so below ground level and you hear a strange sound above you, feel the building shake, and see fire coming from the elevator shaft. One could realistically assume a bomb had been detonated. Only later would you know that no, it wasn't a bomb, it was a plane 1000 feet above you that slammed into the building.

Reasonable, rational people accept this. Irrational people with an agenda, like Willie Rodriguez, do not.

And keep in mind that since sound travels through steel faster than air, you'd feel it before you heard it. You'd feel it through your feet (or your ass if you're sitting) since that's the part of you in contact with the building. A building shaking always feels like it's coming from below.

[Profanz]

If there were bombs in the WTC it would be covered up no matter who did it. That wasn't suppose to be able to happen. The more that things can appear AS IF nothing could have been done to prevent it, and the least amount of people who should be held accountable for the lack of security, the better. The better for everyone.

Blame it on the ghosts. That way no one is in the dog house who should be. And in the end there is a very bankable scapegoat. ching! ching! Can you say no bid contracts? I bet you can.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Just as incoherent as ever.

[dafydd]

If there were bombs in the WTC it would be covered up no matter who did it. That wasn't suppose to be able to happen. The more that things can appear AS IF nothing could have been done to prevent it, and the least amount of people who should be held accountable for the lack of security, the better. The better for everyone.

Blame it on the ghosts. That way no one is in the dog house who should be. And in the end there is a very bankable scapegoat. ching! ching! Can you say no bid contracts? I bet you can.

Are you taking your meds? That is pure babble.

[Par]

If there were bombs in the WTC it would be covered up no matter who did it. That wasn't suppose to be able to happen. The more that things can appear AS IF nothing could have been done to prevent it, and the least amount of people who should be held accountable for the lack of security, the better. The better for everyone. Blame it on the ghosts. That way no one is in the dog house who should be. And in the end there is a very bankable scapegoat. ching! ching! Can you say no bid contracts? I bet you can.Just as incoherent as ever.Are you taking your meds? That is pure babble.


I like the way he's typed noises into it.

[BigAl]

If there were bombs in the WTC it would be covered up no matter who did it.

Countless thousands of people would have heard the blast. That's what happened when the 1993 bomb went off. People on all the tower's floors and out on the street heard it.

The sound of the second blast, at least, would have been recorded on countless video cameras.

Nobody heard the blast.

It isn't on any video recording.

[Oystein]

If there were bombs in the WTC...

...then what? Where and how would that fit into which truther theory?

[leftysergeant]

What Willie and Jennings did not say tells us more than does what they did say, to some dgree.

Willie probably did not hear the plane strike the building he was in. He heard the explosion of fuel that had gotten inside the core and down the elevator shaftys.

Schroeder was right across the street when the first plane hit An explosion so powerful that ot must have been audible a couple basements down occurred as Schroeder was entering the building. It involved a lot of flames. This is clearly not high explosives, but a second blast of igniting jet fuel vapors.

Jennings, over in WTC 7 describes a massive explosion that blew him and Mr Hess back up a stairwell. Clearly, there was a massive over-pressurization of the ground floor. Jennings said that it was definitely NOT a boiler explosion. Boiler explosions would be sharp, sudden, and over and done with in milliseconds.

Hess described the force that blew them up the stairs as a "strong wind." The blast from HE would be a sudden shock wave.

Neither of them describes the collapse of either tower as they experienced it from inside WTC 7. We know that there was a collapse while they were in there. We know that the collapses caused massive movements of air. A mass of moving air will over-pressurize the interior of a building, and being funneled into a stairwell would locally magnify that over-pressurization.

Clearly, the "big explosion" was, then, the collapse of one of the towers.

[tsig]

Just as incoherent as ever.

I think he's for/against no-bid contracts for ghosts.