The possibility of resurrection

[EternalUniverse]

Just some speculation. Do any of you think that, if humankind is able to survive, let's say, at least for another million years, we will possess the technology to resurrect past humans? Think of it, people who will die, and have died, will somehow "wake up" again far into the future due to advanced technology. It is definitely farfetched, due to many hurdles. One of these may include having to find and reassemble the physical components of each individual body. Another involves the question of the relationship between the mind and brain - even if we reassemble brains, does this entail the resurrection of the mind behind the brain? Tough questions. But if this pans out, then it gives us another perspective when it comes to viewing our deaths.

[plindboe]

Creating a clone of a human from the past could be regarded as resurrection. This could probably be done in a near future. Personally I would love to see another Einstein, or perhaps even a thousand Einsteins that could work for mankind, though I suspect many will be opposed to that idea. ;)

[Yahweh]

Jesus was a zombie ya know...

[Abdul Alhazred]

Use your time-hook to snatch them from the past just before they die. Then cure them with your advanced medical techniques. If necessary you can use your time-hook again to put back a convincing fake corpse. :p

[Gestahl]

There are two possibilities:

1) Cloning. Without arguing the existance of a permanenet soul, the person would have to have precisely the same upbringing, environment, and input to be the "same" person. Otherwise, you are just a clone.

2) Actual reconstruction/revitalization of a once alive person. This has more of a chance (although freezing oneself is really stupid... they are almost gauranteeing they cannot be revived due to cell bursting). However, there is a possibility that the "consiousness" of a person is held not within the static synapse connection of the brain, but rather in the self-propagating patterns therein. Termination and restarting of the process might not work.

[pupdog]

There was a great movie, "The Reanimator" based on an HP Lovecraft story (the version broadcast on TV cut the funniest scene). Also "Night of the Living Dead"--so I guess it must be possible.

[Hand Bent Spoon]

A clone is nothing more than a twin brother/sister. Not the same person at all.

Replicating a person who's very bones are long since dust will probably remain impossible, regardless of tech level.

If time travel is used to take people into the future at the moment of death, then where are all the disappearing-on-their-deathbed people? Replaced with a corpse impossible to tell from the real thing? Now we're treading on nonfalsifiable grounds, and this becomes a belief rather than a rational fact.

So, in answer to the question, no.:p

[Eos of the Eons]

Originally posted by Hand Bent Spoon
A clone is nothing more than a twin brother/sister. Not the same person at all.

Replicating a person who's very bones are long since dust will probably remain impossible, regardless of tech level.

If time travel is used to take people into the future at the moment of death, then where are all the disappearing-on-their-deathbed people? Replaced with a corpse impossible to tell from the real thing? Now we're treading on nonfalsifiable grounds, and this becomes a belief rather than a rational fact.

So, in answer to the question, no.:p

Time travel ain't possible. Making a clone is dumb. Why does everyone think Einstein was the smartest person alive? He didn't even invent the A-Bomb, or discover genes, or figure out there was no god. :p

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
Time travel ain't possible. Making a clone is dumb. Why does everyone think Einstein was the smartest person alive? He didn't even invent the A-Bomb, or discover genes, or figure out there was no god. :p
As your velocity approaches the speed of light, time begins to slow...

At the speed of light, time is stopped all together...

So naturally, pushing yourself beyond the speed of light, time should flow backwards...

(Or you could just as easily throw yourself in a cloud of Tachyon particles...)

[/sciencefiction]

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons

Time travel ain't possible.


Technically, the theory is that it's not possible to transfer useful information backward in time. Accelerated forward motion is just fine.

So a time-motorcycle such as in HG Wells' The Time Machine is definitely out.

Hooking an almost corpse from the past into the present is certainly A-OK, and replacing it with a convincingly simulated corpse sure as heck doesn't transfer any useful information back to you 21st century saps. :p

[plindboe]

Originally posted by Hand Bent Spoon
A clone is nothing more than a twin brother/sister. Not the same person at all.


If we could extract memories from a person's entire life from a dead brain, create an adult clone, and insert the memory in the clone's brain, then it would virtually be the same person. Let's try that with Einy. :p

[EternalUniverse]

Originally posted by Hand Bent Spoon

Replicating a person who's very bones are long since dust will probably remain impossible, regardless of tech level.

If we don't kill ourselves first, hopefully we'll have practically an unlimited time to develop the technology.

[EternalUniverse]

Originally posted by plindboe


If we could extract memories from a person's entire life from a dead brain, create an adult clone, and insert the memory in the clone's brain, then it would virtually be the same person. Let's try that with Einy. :p

This brings up the whole problem of identity. What constitutes the same thing? If you make a photocopy, you have two copies of the same thing. However, each copy can not be considered exactly the same thing (for one they don't occopy the same space and share the same material). You can make a clone, but it is merely a copy. If a clone is made of you, and you died but the clone survives, would you still survive?

[chance]

If their DNA were available, I’m sure we could grow a clone (in typical Jurassic Park style).

If the “frozen” body were available, it might be possible to extract some the brain memories (as they were at death), but putting the memories back into another brain (even your perfect clone) might not be possible at all. Memories being stored may rely in part on how physically dynamic the brain is during ones life, i.e. if the brain has the ability to physically “rewire” it’s self as you learn then I would say you can’t do it.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by plindboe


If we could extract memories from a person's entire life from a dead brain, create an adult clone, and insert the memory in the clone's brain, then it would virtually be the same person. Let's try that with Einy. :p

If we can transfer the consciousness, why bother with clones? Rather, let us go shopping for better more fashionable bodies. :p

Unless you think your body is already perfect! :p :p :D

[Soapy Sam]

For a good murder mystery on the subject, try "Cyteen" by C.J.Cherryh. A brilliant scientist is murdered, cloned and retrained to as closely as possible recreate the original. This has devastating effects on her and the people around her. Good stuff from one of the best writers in the business.

There was an even scarier short entitled "Her smoke goes up forever", by James Tiptree Jr. (Also a woman , I believe), about people being revived and forced to relive their worst traumas endlessly for the entertainment of ...someone.

Or "Altered Carbon" by Richard Morgan, in which conscious electronic analogues of living minds are interrogated till they die in agony, then rebooted to do it again.

I rather hope this stays in the realm of fiction.

Me? I'm sort of looking forward to staying dead.

[Eos of the Eons]

Originally posted by chance
If their DNA were available, I’m sure we could grow a clone (in typical Jurassic Park style).

If the “frozen” body were available, it might be possible to extract some the brain memories (as they were at death), but putting the memories back into another brain (even your perfect clone) might not be possible at all. Memories being stored may rely in part on how physically dynamic the brain is during ones life, i.e. if the brain has the ability to physically “rewire” it’s self as you learn then I would say you can’t do it.

Yeah, how exactly are memories stored? I just can't see it being in a way that could ever be extracted.

The brain is so so so much a curiosity. How the heck? Does anyone know anything about that?

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons Yeah, how exactly are memories stored? I just can't see it being in a way that could ever be extracted.

The brain is so so so much a curiosity. How the heck? Does anyone know anything about that?

However memories are stored, they are stored in the brain. Failing more subtle methods, your consciousness can be transferred to another body, clone or otherwise, by a straightforward brain transplant.

No problem. :p

[neutrino_cannon]

There was a musing on the part of Cal Sagan at the end of Broca's brain about the possibility of recovering information from dead people's brains due to the nature of information storage in them. Could be useful, and all the more reason to aim for the head when you kill someone.

[TillEulenspiegel]

Information in the brain isn't stored linearly, but "holographically". It is a complex brain state so the ghost in the machine requires the machine to be functional.

As for reanimation , I saw a documentary once that showed a group of cells dying, it almost seemed like someone threw a switch all the cells turned off at the same time and all the cells ceased to function. The way we think of death is "well he got stabbed in the heart so he died" rather the a wave of instructions thru the body telling all cells to turn off. The prospect of reanimation once the cells in the body go thru this change seems all but impossible.

[chance]

Eos of the Eons Yeah, how exactly are memories stored? I just can't see it being in a way that could ever be extracted.

The brain is so so so much a curiosity. How the heck? Does anyone know anything about that? Short answer, unknown. But a million years is a very long time.

[epepke]

This is the subject of Spider Robinson's Deathkiller. Unfortunately, it's a combination of his Mindkiller book, which was pretty good, and another one, which pretty much sucked wind.

[Dymanic]

Yeah, how exactly are memories stored? I just can't see it being in a way that could ever be extracted.

The brain is so so so much a curiosity. How the heck? Does anyone know anything about that?


working on it (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/miot-mtd020404.php)

[Eos of the Eons]

Originally posted by Dymanic



working on it (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/miot-mtd020404.php)

Whoa, still trying to wrap my head around it. Thank you :)

[Wudang]

Isn't that the plot of Philip Jose Farmer's "Riverworld"? I don't quite recall the exact details as after a couple of volumes it kind of drifted and I found something better to read. Anyway the plot has all the population of earth up to date umpteen something waking up on another world, recalling past life including their death.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Wudang
Isn't that the plot of Philip Jose Farmer's "Riverworld"? I don't quite recall the exact details as after a couple of volumes it kind of drifted and I found something better to read. Anyway the plot has all the population of earth up to date umpteen something waking up on another world, recalling past life including their death.

Religion as bad science-fiction. It's not just for Scientologists.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by EternalUniverse
This brings up the whole problem of identity. What constitutes the same thing? If you make a photocopy, you have two copies of the same thing. However, each copy can not be considered exactly the same thing (for one they don't occopy the same space and share the same material). You can make a clone, but it is merely a copy. If a clone is made of you, and you died but the clone survives, would you still survive?
That is an interesting question. I think this little Philosophical game (http://www.philosophers.co.uk/games/identity.htm) can teach you a bit about Personal Identity...


In the mean time, you're never going to believe it, but... someone's stolen everything out of your bedroom, and replaced them with EXACT REPLICAS!!

[rockoon]

Doesn't everybody want to own their own Baby Jesus?