Proposition to close the 9/11 subforum

[Bell]

A challenge to the truthers

This post is from last night in the Silverstein thread:

here here.
this is the only reason i occasionly come here. you guys still pretend to be balanced and it constantly suprises me.

the fact you have a section entitled 'resources for debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories' indicates you have made the decision that the official theory is 100% correct at any given moment (despite the official explanation changing periodically) and is based around the assumption that the mainstream media and western establishment in general, could never, ever, ever possibly be incorrect about this event.

close the forum .. or admit you just hate anyone questioning the official story for personal reasons.

To which I replied:

Beside everything that is wrong in your post, could you post 1 (one) piece of evidence that proofs 9/11 was an inside job? Once you have done that, I'll ask Terry to close this forum.

So how about it, truthers? You provide us with 1 (one) piece of evidence that proofs 9/11 was an inside job and we'll ask the JREF that this subforum be closed.

And just to prevent you wasting your own and our time, this helpful tip from Regnad Kcin:

See, here's the thing: all you have to do to shut up the big, bad ol' JREF skeptics is present proof of what you are suggesting. Evidence. Considering any "inside job" on the scale of 9/11 would leave countless amounts, both large and small, of physical evidence, paper trails, eyewitnesses, participants, and on and on...why, the mind reels.

Questions are not evidence. Things looking funny and seeming suspicious to you does not constitute evidence. You know what evidence is. That you cannot provide it should suggest something to you.

[uke2se]

Proof. (http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/10/17/129003157345881165.jpg)

Now we can close it.

[RedIbis]

Close it. I have yet to see this subforum fulfill the mission of the jref, to be a friendly and civil place to discuss this historical event.

The subforum is moderated as if the veracity of the 9/11 official story is a foregone conclusion. Not exactly the most objective way to host discussion. Instead it's been allowed to become a sandbox from which to hurl childish insults and gang up on anyone who dares question the prevailing view.

[ImANiceGuy]

How about Sibel Edmonds claim that the CIA was in direct contact with OBL in the days leading up to 9/11. This is evidence.

[ImANiceGuy]

Close it. I have yet to see this subforum fulfill the mission of the jref, to be a friendly and civil place to discuss this historical event.

The subforum is moderated as if the veracity of the 9/11 official story is a foregone conclusion. Not exactly the most objective way to host discussion. Instead it's been allowed to become a sandbox from which to hurl childish insults and gang up on anyone who dares question the prevailing view.

Hey Red.........you've taken a lot of abuse around these parts.....I wonder why we are such suckers for abuse......most of these idiots can't see the forest from the trees.

.......does not compute........cannot process new information.......must trust politicians.....

[sadhatter]

How about Sibel Edmonds claim that the CIA was in direct contact with OBL in the days leading up to 9/11. This is evidence.

Even assuming veracity this is not evidence of anything other than sibel edmonds meeting with the cia.

Unless that is you have a record of what was said. Otherwise it is just a situation you don't know the details too that you are saying is proof. Which is just a sneaky way of using the argument from ignorance. Its like saying me meeting with the police is proof i was arrested. Yes this might be proof if you have proof of the content of my meeting but until you do it is nothing more than proof i met the police.

As far as proof and 9/11 truth go i go with andre the giant on this one " i do not think that word means what you think it means. "

( again i am giving you the benefit of the doubt this even happened. And still your example has more holes that cheesecloth. )

[MikeW]

How about Sibel Edmonds claim that the CIA was in direct contact with OBL in the days leading up to 9/11. This is evidence.
It's not exactly what Edmonds said, though, is it.

[RedIbis]

Hey Red.........you've taken a lot of abuse around these parts.....I wonder why we are such suckers for abuse......most of these idiots can't see the forest from the trees.

.......does not compute........cannot process new information.......must trust politicians.....

It's a good question, and one I've wondered myself. It's probably not much different from why the illustrious debunkers continue to post here, even though they know the truth and all questioning is moronic: It can be entertaining and a way to work through your own analysis and research on the subject.

My primary reason for coming here was because this was considered the best forum for debunking conspiracy theories, and Gravy was the grand dame of the ball, so I wanted to see how solid his work was. As you can see, he's since abandoned ship and his vaunted gravylinks are nothing but an out of date, speculative, subjective mess.

[uke2se]

most of these idiots can't see the forest from the trees.


Excuse me but, who exactly are you calling idiots?

[Thunder]

Close it. I have yet to see this subforum fulfill the mission of the jref, to be a friendly and civil place to discuss this historical event.

i have been around here since 2006, and its always been very clear to me when the incivility starts..and who starts it.

it always begins with a Truther calling "debunkers", either a troll, an agent, a Mossad spy, a NWO tool, etc etc etc.

if debunkers have responded with a little incivility of their own, it is your fault.

[funk de fino]

Close it. I have yet to see this subforum fulfill the mission of the jref, to be a friendly and civil place to discuss this historical event.

The subforum is moderated as if the veracity of the 9/11 official story is a foregone conclusion. Not exactly the most objective way to host discussion. Instead it's been allowed to become a sandbox from which to hurl childish insults and gang up on anyone who dares question the prevailing view.


Ironic that you had to lie in your post.

[funk de fino]

How about Sibel Edmonds claim that the CIA was in direct contact with OBL in the days leading up to 9/11. This is evidence.

No, its not. It's even more sad you think it is.

[Bell]

IAmANiceGuy and Red Ibis. Thanks for your thoughtful replies. I'd like to point out however that you forgot to post the evidence that 9/11 was an inside job. Just saying.

[funk de fino]

It's a good question, and one I've wondered myself. It's probably not much different from why the illustrious debunkers continue to post here, even though they know the truth and all questioning is moronic: It can be entertaining and a way to work through your own analysis and research on the subject.

My primary reason for coming here was because this was considered the best forum for debunking conspiracy theories, and Gravy was the grand dame of the ball, so I wanted to see how solid his work was. As you can see, he's since abandoned ship and his vaunted gravylinks are nothing but an out of date, speculative, subjective mess.

See post number 3 and see if you think you may be displaying hypocrisy by engaging with someone and replying to that post.

[JimBenArm]

i have been around here since 2006, and its always been very clear to me when the incivility starts..and who starts it.

it always begins with a Truther calling "debunkers", either a troll, an agent, a Mossad spy, a NWO tool, etc etc etc.

if debunkers have responded with a little incivility of their own, it is your fault.

Well, the fact debunkers respond in kind in no way makes this anyone's fault but the debunkers. No one can make me respond to anything in any particular way. I choose to respond that way. Yes, if I respond to uncivil posts with another, it's a poor choice and reflects badly on me, but it still remains my choice. I've done this too many times, myself, because it's easy to respond to vitriol with more of the same, rather than ignoring it or responding without the emotion.
As with all humans, I remain a work-in-progress, so I will continue to do this, but I think I've come to recognize it in myself a bit more, and try to control it with some better results. Which is one of the reasons my frequency of posts here is dramatically reduced.

[Sabrina]

Even assuming veracity this is not evidence of anything other than sibel edmonds meeting with the cia.

Unless that is you have a record of what was said. Otherwise it is just a situation you don't know the details too that you are saying is proof. Which is just a sneaky way of using the argument from ignorance. Its like saying me meeting with the police is proof i was arrested. Yes this might be proof if you have proof of the content of my meeting but until you do it is nothing more than proof i met the police.

As far as proof and 9/11 truth go i go with andre the giant on this one " i do not think that word means what you think it means. "
( again i am giving you the benefit of the doubt this even happened. And still your example has more holes that cheesecloth. )

Actually, it was Inigo who said that.

[Thunder]

Fact: 9-11 Truthers bring a sense of "holyer than though" to this forum. They have made up their minds even before they post. They come here mostly to insult those who dare defy their "theories". They see this as a place to play games, not engage in actual debate. They NEVER believe anything that we tell them. Ever. Regardless of the source.

To them, anything that counters 9-11 Truth, is an evil plot to install a New World Order.

Period.

[Tatyana]

How about Sibel Edmonds claim that the CIA was in direct contact with OBL in the days leading up to 9/11. This is evidence.

I claim that OBL lives in my basement and the CIA calls him at least once a month.

[16.5]

Close it. I have yet to see this subforum fulfill the mission of the jref, to be a friendly and civil place to discuss this historical event.

The subforum is moderated as if the veracity of the 9/11 official story is a foregone conclusion. Not exactly the most objective way to host discussion. Instead it's been allowed to become a sandbox from which to hurl childish insults and gang up on anyone who dares question the prevailing view.

Talking about foregone conclusions, I heard that Larry Silverstein made out like a god damn bandit when the WTC complex was destroyed!

Right, Red? Keep on truthing brother!

[DavidJames]

I would prefer more moderation to limit discussion to serious debate, you know the kind that includes evidence, intellectually honest research and analysis (Greg U. for example), and and not be a social club for the deluded as some above would like. But I doubt the subforum will ever be closed. JREF still supports bigfoot, moon hoax and JFK CT discussions. I think the best approach would be to fold it into the general CT forum. They will then become smaller deluded fish in a bigger sea of crazy, not something they want.

I think the answer is to ignore them. They are here to chat, provoke or annoy, but not for honest debate. Ignoring them will deprive them of the only thing they really want, attention. Without it, they will move on. Responding under the excuse of concern for lurkers is just that, an excuse to...chat, provoke or annoy.

[Brainster]

So how about it, truthers? You provide us with 1 (one) piece of evidence that proofs 9/11 was an inside job and we'll ask the JREF that this subforum be closed.

This sounds to me more like a proposal to keep the subforum open forever.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Leave it open!

I just like to laugh at the Truthers for being themselves without no expierence or education in world physics.

The Truthers in this subforum are our own source of comedy. They do relieve tension & bring ease to our minds that we know that what they claim, say or think is totally rubbish. And they bring laughter to the subforum because when they erupt in a temper tantrum it's like talking to a child, more or less.

[Oystein]

...the illustrious debunkers continue to post here, even though they know the truth...

...the truth which is - what?

That Larry Silverstone made out like a bandit? You never supported that libellous claim with any evidence and sourced numbers.

As long as guys like you go around flinging, libel, slander and mud at fellow people, this subforum ought to stay open.

[Thunder]

It's probably not much different from why the illustrious debunkers continue to post here, even though they know the truth

so, not only do we work for the NWO, but we actually KNOW that 9-11 was an Inside Job, and are just pretending to believe otherwise?

that's a great way of disregarding the ideas and thoughts of those who disagree with you.

"eh....they are lying. they deep-down know we are right."

its posts like this that lead people to have very little respect for Truthers.

[RedIbis]

so, not only do we work for the NWO, but we actually KNOW that 9-11 was an Inside Job, and are just pretending to believe otherwise?

that's a great way of disregarding the ideas and thoughts of those who disagree with you.

"eh....they are lying. they deep-down know we are right."

its posts like this that lead people to have very little respect for Truthers.

You totally misread what I wrote.

[RedIbis]

Talking about foregone conclusions, I heard that Larry Silverstein made out like a god damn bandit when the WTC complex was destroyed!

Right, Red? Keep on truthing brother!

No, wrong. He made out like a bandit when he received much more compensation than he invested and refuses to contribute his own money to the rebuilding, seeking instead public and private funds.

This has been laid out for you ad nauseum. If you want to continue this discussion bump one of the many threads on the topic and stop derailing this one.

[fourtoe]

Isn't the fact that Israel is still in existence proof that 911 was an inside job?

How you gonna act, duh'bunkers?!

[16.5]

No, wrong. He made out like a bandit when he received much more compensation than he invested and refuses to contribute his own money to the rebuilding, seeking instead public and private funds.

This has been laid out for you ad nauseum. If you want to continue this discussion bump one of the many threads on the topic and stop derailing this one.

Oh mercy, that bold line was a freaking HOOT!!!!

Well, Red, if it has been "laid out for you ad nauseum" maybe we SHOULD close the freaking sub-forum!

hee hee, off to bumbity bump the thread! Se ya there Red! In the meantime, KEEP ON TRUTHERING!!!

/Done and done Red! YEAH BABY, we gonna get some answers NOW!

[Thunder]

Isn't the fact that Israel is still in existence proof that 911 was an inside job?

How you gonna act, duh'bunkers?!

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[Thunder]

Lets say we lose the 9-11 section.

what happens to all future 9-11 topics?

will they just go into the general CT section...or will 9-11 CTs no longer be a valid topic of discussion?

[T.A.M.]

1. Red, you can mock and misrepresent Mark's leaving this forum all you want. Those of us who were here when he decided to leave know why he left, and it has nothing to do with "abandoning ship". Just the opposite, in his mind all of the CTs in the 9/11 area had been debunked, and therefore he so no further purpose in posting here. If it makes you feel more comfortable believing some other delusion where he gave up out of defeat, well, that of course is your prerogative.

2. If the subforum was closed, I would imagine we could transfer over the "General Discussion" thread, and any other threads would be treated just like new "JFK" or "Moon Hoax" threads.

Lets face it, this forum, for the most part, has lived out its usefulness as a place for civil or productive discussion. As others have said (and some bragged of), it is now a place to mock others.

TAM:)

[Bell]

Lets say we lose the 9-11 section.

what happens to all future 9-11 topics?

will they just go into the general CT section...or will 9-11 CTs no longer be a valid topic of discussion?

How credible do you think closing this sub forum is (in regards to my OP)? :)

[RedIbis]

1. Red, you can mock and misrepresent Mark's leaving this forum all you want. Those of us who were here when he decided to leave know why he left, and it has nothing to do with "abandoning ship". Just the opposite, in his mind all of the CTs in the 9/11 area had been debunked, and therefore he so no further purpose in posting here. If it makes you feel more comfortable believing some other delusion where he gave up out of defeat, well, that of course is your prerogative.



It's ridiculous to the extreme to think that all discussion of arguably the most complex single day in American history is finished.

If Gravy stopped posting here for personal reasons, that's his business and I'd never begrudge him it, but if it's as you say that he believed everything had been "debunked" then this is the type of pseudo-intellectual hubris that killed this subforum in the first place.

[Thunder]

but if it's as you say that he believed everything had been "debunked" then this is the type of pseudo-intellectual hubris that killed this subforum in the first place.

then, why are YOU here?

[Bell]

It's ridiculous to the extreme to think that all discussion of arguably the most complex single day in American history is finished.

If Gravy stopped posting here for personal reasons, that's his business and I'd never begrudge him it, but if it's as you say that he believed everything had been "debunked" then this is the type of pseudo-intellectual hubris that killed this subforum in the first place.

So you have proof?

[Edx]

I realise this isn't the point of the OP but I hope the JREF never closes this subforum

[TexasJack]

It's ridiculous to the extreme to think that all discussion of arguably the most complex single day in American history is finished.

If Gravy stopped posting here for personal reasons, that's his business and I'd never begrudge him it, but if it's as you say that he believed everything had been "debunked" then this is the type of pseudo-intellectual hubris that killed this subforum in the first place.

If this doesn't meet your standards, go find a better one...where would go, Loose Change?

[JohnG]

I propose we open a new subforum to house all the threads related to discussions about closing down the 9/11 subforum.

[Dave Rogers]

No, wrong. He made out like a bandit when he received much more compensation than he invested and refuses to contribute his own money to the rebuilding, seeking instead public and private funds.

This has been laid out for you ad nauseum.

No, it's been asserted ad nauseam. Post a profit-and-loss account with justification for the numbers, and you might have something worthy of the term 'laid out'. At the moment all you're doing is mudslinging, along with every other truther. The sad thing is, if you were prepared to do anything more constructive, we wouldn't need this forum; we'd be discussing it in History.

Dave

[Magenta]

I think the answer is to ignore them. They are here to chat, provoke or annoy, but not for honest debate. Ignoring them will deprive them of the only thing they really want, attention. Without it, they will move on. Responding under the excuse of concern for lurkers is just that, an excuse to...chat, provoke or annoy.


I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Also, it seems apropos to link to this thread by Gravy from 2008:

Some observations and statistics about this subforum (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=126090#JREF_Forum_top)

[...] Before starting a thread or post, ask yourself, "What is my goal here? Am I more likely to be helping extinguish this conspiracy theory or will I be prolonging it by adding fuel? Do I have something essential to add to this discussion? Is it necessary to give this truther attention? Am I enabling the negative behavior of an ineducable person? Am I asking questions that have already been answered or that I know won't be answered?"


Message from the Department of Redundancy Department: use the great resources at your disposal

Why take the time to make the same argument to a truther for the hundredth time if the issue has been dealt with effectively and that discussion/paper/video is readily available? You've done your homework. In fact – and please don't forget this – you've done their homework also. The least they can do is read it. It's still 2006 for the truth movement here. Let's make it 2008.

[T.A.M.]

It's ridiculous to the extreme to think that all discussion of arguably the most complex single day in American history is finished.

If Gravy stopped posting here for personal reasons, that's his business and I'd never begrudge him it, but if it's as you say that he believed everything had been "debunked" then this is the type of pseudo-intellectual hubris that killed this subforum in the first place.

I have been on this forum for FOUR years now. Since 2008 I can count on 1 hand the number of GENUINE new topics that have been put forward and discussed on this subforum, concerning the attacks of 9/11.

All the other topics have been discussed to death here, and IMO, each and every one of them has been debunked. Most times, through a lack of provision of evidence to prove a theory proposed.

TAM:)

[DC]

Close it and make it a AGW denial debunking sction.

[Telltale Tom]

Ha, so I see that most of the debunkers want to close it while the truthers want to keep it open. Which proves that the search for truth is strongest

I expect that the truth will win the forum. You see most people only read the last 2 pages and when debunkers dominate these last 2 pages then we win.! Its easy for us to open new threads asking the same old questions and that pushes the more embarrassing threads to the back. Just look at the quality of some cracking threads started by IAmANiceGuy. For instance we must have 6 threads on how to debate Richard Gage and some of the early one are much better than the later ones

Its clear to me that you guys are tiring while we continue to have new fresh members that want to question the official story and who don't want use the search function

You might as well give up now

[DC]

Ha, so I see that most of the debunkers want to close it while the truthers want to keep it open. Which proves that the search for truth is strongest

I expect that the truth will win the forum. You see most people only read the last 2 pages and when debunkers dominate these last 2 pages then we win.! Its easy for us to open new threads asking the same old questions and that pushes the more embarrassing threads to the back. Just look at the quality of some cracking threads started by IAmANiceGuy. For instance we must have 6 threads on how to debate Richard Gage and some of the early one are much better than the later ones

Its clear to me that you guys are tiring while we continue to have new fresh members that want to question the official story and who don't want use the search function

You might as well give up now

:rolleyes:

[T.A.M.]

Ha, so I see that most of the debunkers want to close it while the truthers want to keep it open. Which proves that the search for truth is strongest

I expect that the truth will win the forum. You see most people only read the last 2 pages and when debunkers dominate these last 2 pages then we win.! Its easy for us to open new threads asking the same old questions and that pushes the more embarrassing threads to the back. Just look at the quality of some cracking threads started by IAmANiceGuy. For instance we must have 6 threads on how to debate Richard Gage and some of the early one are much better than the later ones

Its clear to me that you guys are tiring while we continue to have new fresh members that want to question the official story and who don't want use the search function

You might as well give up now

lol...you guys lost your battle selling the snake oil when Obama took the WH.

Welcome to the back shelf of the CT library.

TAM:)

[Bell]

Ha, so I see that most of the debunkers want to close it while the truthers want to keep it open. Which proves that the search for truth is strongest

I expect that the truth will win the forum. You see most people only read the last 2 pages and when debunkers dominate these last 2 pages then we win.! Its easy for us to open new threads asking the same old questions and that pushes the more embarrassing threads to the back. Just look at the quality of some cracking threads started by IAmANiceGuy. For instance we must have 6 threads on how to debate Richard Gage and some of the early one are much better than the later ones

Its clear to me that you guys are tiring while we continue to have new fresh members that want to question the official story and who don't want use the search function

You might as well give up now

Dearest Telltale. Or is it Tom? Anyway. Even though I enjoy your contribution to this forum, your insights and your positive image building of the Truth (TM) Movement, you missed the ball so to speak with this last post. See, what I asked for was PROOF that 9/11 was an inside job. PROOF that left no doubt that George W. Bush and his evil cabal were smart enough to pull it (no pun intended) off. I gave you a perfect opportunity to explain to us why we are still waiting for this evidence and what the Truth (TM) Movement is doing that keeps this situation unchanged. I hope you will enlighten us very soon. The Truth (TM) needs more people like you!

[RedIbis]

lol...you guys lost your battle selling the snake oil when Obama took the WH.

Welcome to the back shelf of the CT library.

TAM:)

You really don't realize that the guy's trying to be satiric?

[Thunder]

Its clear to me that you guys are tiring

I will admit it. I am indeed getting tired.

Tired of hearing about Exotic Energy Weapons. Tired of hearing about all the WTC steel being turned to dust. Tired of hearing about no planes at the WTC, even though thousands of people saw them.

Tired of being called an "agent", or a "NWO mole", or a "Neo-Con lover", or a "Mossad spy", or a "dual-citizen Zionist".

Tired of being accused of being a co-conspirator. Tired of being told I will be hung at the gallows for my "treason". Tired of being told the people will rise up in revolution and make me pay for my "crimes".

Yup. Maybe we are a little tired.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Ha, so I see that most of the debunkers want to close it while the truthers want to keep it open. Which proves that the search for truth is strongest

I expect that the truth will win the forum. You see most people only read the last 2 pages and when debunkers dominate these last 2 pages then we win.! Its easy for us to open new threads asking the same old questions and that pushes the more embarrassing threads to the back. Just look at the quality of some cracking threads started by IAmANiceGuy. For instance we must have 6 threads on how to debate Richard Gage and some of the early one are much better than the later ones

Its clear to me that you guys are tiring while we continue to have new fresh members that want to question the official story and who don't want use the search function

You might as well give up now

What possible "truth" do you have to prove that 9/11 was an "Inside Job"?

All you can do is spew out lies, BS & propaghanda on behalf of a group of idiotic people who know NOTHING about world physics.

Put that in your crack pipe & smoke it!

[Myriad]

You really don't realize that the guy's trying to be satiric?


It's possible, but how do we tell for sure? He's made no claims that I haven't seen other Truthers, whom we're apparently supposed to take seriously, make. If there's any difference, it's that he seems to be just a little more honest about acknowledging certain details about the 9/11 conspiracist position and conduct (such as their not wanting to use the search function, which is self-evident in any case).

Are you trying to be satiric, when you make allegations like "Silverstein made out like a bandit" and then refuse to show supporting evidence? How do we tell?

Respectfully,
Myriad

[RedIbis]

It's possible, but how do we tell for sure? He's made no claims that I haven't seen other Truthers, whom we're apparently supposed to take seriously, make. If there's any difference, it's that he seems to be just a little more honest about acknowledging certain details about the 9/11 conspiracist position and conduct (such as their not wanting to use the search function, which is self-evident in any case).

Are you trying to be satiric, when you make allegations like "Silverstein made out like a bandit" and then refuse to show supporting evidence? How do we tell?

Respectfully,
Myriad

Why do you constantly use the tactic of conflation to minimize any questioning of 9/11?

I can use the search function. I've provided the links to articles which very clearly show how Silverstein made a profit from the insurance settlements and avoiding bearing the cost of rebuilding. I suppose this makes me a twoofer and by extension an anti-semite.

It's disheartening when a moderator employs such a transparent debate tactic.

[Myriad]

Why do you constantly use the tactic of conflation to minimize any questioning of 9/11?

I can use the search function. I've provided the links to articles which very clearly show how Silverstein made a profit from the insurance settlements and avoiding bearing the cost of rebuilding. I suppose this makes me a twoofer and by extension an anti-semite.


That's not what I asked. I asked, are you being satiric when you make these claims? And more important (since of course most people being satiric would also satirically deny they were being satiric, while people being serious might still satirically claim to be being satiric), how do I tell for sure?

Respectfully,
Myriad

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I've provided the links to articles which very clearly show how Silverstein made a profit from the insurance settlements and avoiding bearing the cost of rebuilding. I suppose this makes me a twoofer and by extension an anti-semite.

Right, and we're to believe you because you have no evidence to support what you're saying?

You're guilty by association for being a Truther & with the 9/11 TM saying that the Jews perped 9/11. That makes you an anti-semite as well!

[beachnut]

...
My primary reason for coming here was because this was considered the best forum for debunking conspiracy theories, and Gravy was the grand dame of the ball, so I wanted to see how solid his work was. As you can see, he's since abandoned ship and his vaunted gravylinks are nothing but an out of date, speculative, subjective mess.
Your obsession is Gravy who put you on ignore. Gravy debunked 911 truth. 911 truth continues spewing lies, you ineffectively give tangential support to 911 truth based on nothing save opinions worthy of earning placement on ignore.

Gravy completed debunking 911 truth and revealed all of 911 truth was worthless insane rant made up out of ignorance and hate.

Gravy finished debunking 911 truth, you failed to figure out 911. Flight 93 Passengers figure out 911 in minutes; you can't touch that with > 8 years. Got math?

[Thunder]

9-11 may be a worthwhile subject, but 9-11 Conspiracy Theories have been beaten to death. They no longer deserve their own sub-section, as nothing new of any significance has come out or been "discovered".

End the 9-11 CT section, and let all new 9-11 conspiracy "theories" go with the rest of the conspiracy theory garbage.

[The Platypus]

Why should the 911 nuts have their own can? After this many years they aren't new or current or even interesting anymore, they are just another bunch of nuts from the lunatic fringe. So just throw them into the mixed CT nut can.

[Bell]

Just to be clear: I was talking about closing this forum after the truthers present to us the proof that 9/11 was an inside job (like that will ever happen).

But it's fine by me to discuss it merging into the general CT thread.

[twinstead]

But won't threads like "The Freeman Movement and England" and "ALL 43 VIDEOS-"SECOND HIT" [EXPLOSION]at WTC 2: PLANE or NO PLANE???", if they were to actually exist in the same subforum, cause a tear in the fabric of the universe and destroy our planet entirely?

[TSR]

But won't threads like "The Freeman Movement and England" and "ALL 43 VIDEOS-"SECOND HIT" [EXPLOSION]at WTC 2: PLANE or NO PLANE???", if they were to actually exist in the same subforum, cause a tear in the fabric of the universe and destroy our planet entirely?

.
No, but we can make it *look* like it has...
.

[Thunder]

Like I said, 9-11 Conspiracy Theories have become too stupid and annoying to deserve their own sub-forum. Let this topic be relegated back to the mess of regular Conspiracy Theories, where it belongs.

Is this like a philisophical demotion? You got it. And its well deserved.

[Hans]

I would suggest letting the 911 forum run until then tenth anniversary of the terrorist attack - then shut it down - unless something new actually shows up. The 911 conspiracies will be placed on the shelf with all the other old and failed routines.

[Thunder]

I would suggest letting the 911 forum run until then tenth anniversary of the terrorist attack - then shut it down - unless something new actually shows up. The 911 conspiracies will be placed on the shelf with all the other old and failed routines.

that sounds like a happy compromise.

the 9-11 CT section will stay as is until the 10th Anniversary. And by then, if nothing amazing and monumental comes up, the 9-11 section gets sent to storage, available for reading only, and any new 9-11 CT related topics go to the regular Conspiracy Theory section, with the rest of the crap.

:p

[Oystein]

In the last 24 hours, there have been new posts to 16 different threads in this sub-forum.
This, to me, is a sub-forum well and alive. It beats Education, Economics, History, Non-USA Politics, and Computers. Let's close/merge these before we close 9/11, because here's where posters exhibit real interest and activity.

[aggle-rithm]

I've provided the links to articles which very clearly show how Silverstein made a profit from the insurance settlements and avoiding bearing the cost of rebuilding.


Good for you! Now how about addressing the topic?

[Bell]

In the last 24 hours, there have been new posts to 16 different threads in this sub-forum.
This, to me, is a sub-forum well and alive. It beats Education, Economics, History, Non-USA Politics, and Computers. Let's close/merge these before we close 9/11, because here's where posters exhibit real interest and activity.

On the other hand. In the last 34 hours none of the truthers have posted even 1 (one) piece of evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.

[aggle-rithm]

I would suggest letting the 911 forum run until then tenth anniversary of the terrorist attack - then shut it down - unless something new actually shows up.

The potential for something new is endless! We haven't even TRIED to respond to every truther claim with Haiku, for instance.

[RedIbis]

Right, and we're to believe you because you have no evidence to support what you're saying?

You're guilty by association for being a Truther & with the 9/11 TM saying that the Jews perped 9/11. That makes you an anti-semite as well!

Jref style "debunking" at its finest. Thanks for the laugh.

[Thunder]

naaaa. close this silly sub-forum on 9-11-11.

let the truthers make new "topics" about new "theories" in the Conspiracy Theory section.

oh no!! 9-11 Truthers don't get their own sub-section any more!!! its bigotry!! its censorship!!! its the New World Order!!

:)

[Bell]

Jref style "debunking" at its finest. Thanks for the laugh.

If you really want to laugh, then show us proof that 9/11 was an inside job :rolleyes:

[Oystein]

On the other hand. In the last 34 hours none of the truthers have posted even 1 (one) piece of evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.

Hmmm that's your evaluation of posts by jammo, bio, RedIbis, LGR, Profanz. Theirs differs...

[GlennB]

But won't threads like "The Freeman Movement and England" and "ALL 43 VIDEOS-"SECOND HIT" [EXPLOSION]at WTC 2: PLANE or NO PLANE???", if they were to actually exist in the same subforum, cause a tear in the fabric of the universe and destroy our planet entirely?

Yes.

btw - do you have a phone number for the hot nun in your avatar?

[TexasJack]

It's fruitless to argue with these people. No matter how much evidence, logic, or rational thought you present them, they reply with: "These go to 11."

[T.A.M.]

You really don't realize that the guy's trying to be satiric?

Sometimes I do, other times his sarcasm/wit is a little too dry.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

In the last 24 hours, there have been new posts to 16 different threads in this sub-forum.
This, to me, is a sub-forum well and alive. It beats Education, Economics, History, Non-USA Politics, and Computers. Let's close/merge these before we close 9/11, because here's where posters exhibit real interest and activity.

A room full of crows cawing is a "busy, active" room. Doesn't mean we should keep it open etc...

TAM:)

[sheeplesnshills]

Close it. I have yet to see this subforum fulfill the mission of the jref, to be a friendly and civil place to discuss this historical event.

The subforum is moderated as if the veracity of the 9/11 official story is a foregone conclusion. Not exactly the most objective way to host discussion. Instead it's been allowed to become a sandbox from which to hurl childish insults and gang up on anyone who dares question the prevailing view.


Yet I've yet to see one intelligent question from the truthers. They seem to fail to grasp the fact that simply because they don't understand something, it must therefore be evidence of something. Lets face it Truthers are now essentially either insane and/or terminally ignorant/stupid and/or out to make money.

[Scott Sommers]

I've been a member here for less than a year. While it was fun at first, in many ways my experience here has been a big disappointment. Many of the Truthers posts appear to be multiple posts by the same people under different names. A typical debate these days is someone posting an old argument that's been thrashed to death somewhere else. This is typically answered by posting a link to the old threads and then hurling names at the Truther that made the post. In fact, the only person posting anything original here is Jammonius, and that's like arguing with someone on an acid trip.

911 Truth has had its day. It's not some new idea looking for adherents. It's a full blown conspiracy theory and nothing more. No one talks about it except the same people who talk about all those other nut case conspiracy theories. It's at the point where you can't believe it unless you also believe in some other collection of nut job theories.

I don't see much use for the 9/11 subforum. Nothing new gets said here. It's the same people saying the same things over and over and over and over. It's the same collection of Truthers pretending they're informed people while at the same time not even knowing who the Unification Church is. The problem is that if you shut this one down, the 911 nutters will start flooding the other conspiracy forums with their rantings.

[twinstead]

btw - do you have a phone number for the hot nun in your avatar?

Only in my fevered dreams ;)

[funk de fino]

If you really want to laugh, then show us proof that 9/11 was an inside job :rolleyes:

I would accept proof for some of his cowardly and below the belt claims about certain people. He cannot even back them up.

[Profanz]

Oh brother. Another 9/11 truth is dead thread. Can't these threads just all be merged together? They have been popping up for at least four years now. Still the same debunkers are here fighting what they claim is dead. (even if some of them have different names now shhhh...)

But really.

[Thunder]

Oh brother. Another 9/11 truth is dead thread. Can't these threads just all be merged together? They have been popping up for at least four years now. Still the same debunkers are here fighting what they claim is dead. (even if some of them have different names now shhhh...)

But really.

claiming that 9-11 Truth is not dead, over and over, again and again, for 4 years......

...doesn't mean 9-11 Truth isn't dead.


"VHS isn't dead!! It isn't dead yet!!!"

"Yes, it is. VHS is indeed dead".

"No its not!! Can't you hear what I am saying??? VHS isn't dead!!"

"Whatever dude, get a life".

[Profanz]

claiming that 9-11 Truth is not dead, over and over, again and again, for 4 years......

...doesn't mean 9-11 Truth isn't dead.


"VHS isn't dead!! It isn't dead yet!!!"

"Yes, it is. VHS is indeed dead".

"No its not!! Can't you hear what I am saying??? VHS isn't dead!!"

"Whatever dude, get a life".

I still have a VCR and an 8-track. And I ain't never getting rid of my albums or my turntable. I also have a HD big screen TV, DVD player, CD player, and an ipod. I also have a bunch of different computers. Some really old with the original operating system. Some newer. Macs too. I use all of them. I love them all.

What's your point?

[Thunder]

I still have a VCR and an 8-track. And I ain't never getting rid of my albums or my turntable. I also have a HD big screen TV, DVD player, CD player, and an ipod. I also have a bunch of different computers. Some really old with the original operating system. Some newer. Macs too. I use all of them. I love them all.

What's your point?

Let me know when you can get episodes of The Office on Betamax.

[UNLoVedRebel]

...doesn't mean 9-11 Truth isn't dead.

This does,

http://www.google.com/trends?q=9%2F11+truth%2C+fat+wife&ctab=0&geo=all&date=2009&sort=0

[Profanz]

Let me know when you can get episodes of The Office on Betamax.

I'm sure they can still be converted if you really need it man. Look around. My dad fell for the Beta back in what I think I remember now was 1983, and tossed it later. If you have it now and it works and you have stuff that will play on it then what's the problem? Remember the laser discs? The big ones? I'm sure some people still have those. Me? I still don't have a cell phone. I hate watching people when they use them constantly. Such insecurity. They can never be alone with them self. I guess I'm still old fashion in some ways.

9/11 truth ain't old fashion just because some people are wishing it was. The same people who still frequent this place day after day for years no matter what their name is this year. You're definitely still intrigued.

[Thunder]

You're definitely still intrigued.

sorry to hurt your feelings man, but I come here not because of honest intellectual interest in 9-11 conspiracy theories, but to see what stupid/funny/silly things Truthers have posted, and to watch you guys get a hilarious beat-down, which brings a smile to my face.

my interest in 9-11 theories ended a long time ago. now its pure ***** and giggles for me.

[UNLoVedRebel]

my interest in 9-11 theories ended a long time ago. now its pure ***** and giggles for me.
A few threads down some Truther moron didn't know the difference between NEADS and the FAA.

[Thunder]

A few threads down some Truther moron didn't know the difference between NEADS and the FAA.

see?? that's why I am here.

to laugh....at Truther's expense.

Schadenfreude. Tut mir leid.

:)

btw, did Floyd Goethe actually say that line in your sig? That's hilarious **** man. Is it wrong for me to laugh at the village idiots?

[T.A.M.]

Is it wrong for me to laugh at the village idiots?

Not wrong, but perhaps a little shameful. However, you are not alone in the shame...I laugh at them here daily.

TAM:)

[Thunder]

I should also mention that as a NYC gov. employee who helped in the recovery effort, and a relative of two NYPD Sergeants, and as someone who grew up in the shadow of the WTC and breathed in the yellow crap air for months, I guess I take this 9-11 stuff kinda personally. I am at times, deeply offended by 9-11 Truth.

so its not just for laughs.

[Profanz]

This does,

http://www.google.com/trends?q=9%2F11+truth%2C+fat+wife&ctab=0&geo=all&date=2009&sort=0


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3483477/The-30-greatest-conspiracy-theories-part-1.html

Debunkers have had no impact whatsoever except to start people questioning when some things are automatically labeled "conspiracy theory" as an attack or political strategy. Good job.

That's why you all hang here when it comes to 9/11. You've been cornered. And you can never leave. Except to quit like Gravy. Your hero who has abandoned you.

[UNLoVedRebel]

btw, did Floyd Goethe actually say that line in your sig? That's hilarious **** man. Is it wrong for me to laugh at the village idiots?Yup, # 17 on the stundie list.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=153042

You should've heard what he had to say about Jews. He made 9/11 Investigator look like a Simon Weisenthal museum curator.

[AJM8125]

That's why you all hang here when it comes to 9/11. You've been cornered. And you can never leave. Except to quit like Gravy. Your hero who has abandoned you.

Yeah, not like those truther leaders, still out there, still pluggin away, still selling DVDs and books, still begging for handouts, still traveling the globe courtesy of your lunch money.

[Thunder]

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3483477/The-30-greatest-conspiracy-theories-part-1.html)
That's why you all hang here when it comes to 9/11. You've been cornered. And you can never leave. Except to quit like Gravy. Your hero who has abandoned you.

um........ok.

whatever gets you up in the morning dude.

but for now, City Slickers is on the TV Guide channel!!!!!

Poof!! I press the button, and 9-11 Truth utterly and completely dissapears from life. Bye bye.

[Foolmewunz]

Well, the fact debunkers respond in kind in no way makes this anyone's fault but the debunkers. No one can make me respond to anything in any particular way. I choose to respond that way. Yes, if I respond to uncivil posts with another, it's a poor choice and reflects badly on me, but it still remains my choice. I've done this too many times, myself, because it's easy to respond to vitriol with more of the same, rather than ignoring it or responding without the emotion.
As with all humans, I remain a work-in-progress, so I will continue to do this, but I think I've come to recognize it in myself a bit more, and try to control it with some better results. Which is one of the reasons my frequency of posts here is dramatically reduced.

Okay, who are you? And what have you done with JimBen? Someone get out to KC (I hear they've got some lovely little women there) and book the Ghostbustermobile. An alien's taken over JimBen.

Nice try, fella! But JimBen once managed a single serious sentence (1959, it was a Tuesday, it was raining), but TWO WHOLE PARAGRAPHS!!??? Hoisted by your own petard, evil dastardly alien thing!


@OP - leave it open. I drop in for yuks every now and then. There are people who enjoy it. Why is there this constant movement around here to shut things down, limit access, move things, etc...

I'm a bit put off that TellTale is right - it's the debunkers who want to shut it down. Why? No one's asking you to give your life to this sub-forum. Everyone wants to emulate Gravy's debunking? Why not emulate Marc Roberts? One of the things that I believe he was pointing towards was the debunking Truth is not a life's calling, he had/has other interests and wherever he is, I believe he's pursuing those and I hope he is.

It should be noted that many of the primary debunkers of today have arrived in the last couple of years. Some of the original wave just got tired of knocking down the same old/same old. Mebbe that's what some are now feeling, but I have every faith that as long as there is another screwball with another oft-repeated (and I do mean "oft") smoking gun, there will be someone who takes the JREF credo to heart and will pursue them and their lack of actual evidence.

I know some of the primary debunkers who were here when I arrived four years ago are still here, and Ryan will still speak up when someone actually has numbers to discuss, as will Beachnut and a few others. It's just not a life's calling.

[Foolmewunz]

<snip>

9/11 truth ain't old fashion just because some people are wishing it was. The same people who person will still frequent this place day after day for years no matter what their name is this year. You're definitely still intrigued.

Fixed that for ya. Nice of you to admit the m.o., by the way.

The TM credo. "Hey, it's the internet. We can be everywhere at once, man! Wanna be a soldier? Go on over to a gaming forum and tell 'em you're a master sergeant in the USMC. Wanna be a pilot? Heck, there's a whole fantasy site for that! Wanna be a crack investigative journalist (or is that crackhead?... ) - there's always CIT. Got some junior high math skilll? A&E is for you. And the great thing - all of these can be the same person! One guy with fifteen nicknames!"

[Profanz]

Fixed that for ya. Nice of you to admit the m.o., by the way.

The TM credo. "Hey, it's the internet. We can be everywhere at once, man! Wanna be a soldier? Go on over to a gaming forum and tell 'em you're a master sergeant in the USMC. Wanna be a pilot? Heck, there's a whole fantasy site for that! Wanna be a crack investigative journalist (or is that crackhead?... ) - there's always CIT. Got some junior high math skilll? A&E is for you. And the great thing - all of these can be the same person! One guy with fifteen nicknames!"

I didn't admit to anything Mr. 11,822 posts. Good job.

[Foolmewunz]

I didn't admit to anything Mr. 11,822 posts. Good job.

Why thank you. And I should point out that that's all under one name!

Oh, and.... Up Arsenal!

[Bell]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3483477/The-30-greatest-conspiracy-theories-part-1.html

Debunkers have had no impact whatsoever except to start people questioning when some things are automatically labeled "conspiracy theory" as an attack or political strategy. Good job.

That's why you all hang here when it comes to 9/11. You've been cornered. And you can never leave. Except to quit like Gravy. Your hero who has abandoned you.

And you are posting here because of, exactly what?

[NutCracker]

Yes.

btw - do you have a phone number for the hot nun in your avatar?

I never dared to ask UNLoVedRebel.

His avatar makes him a very loved rebel.
:boxedin:

[T.A.M.]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3483477/The-30-greatest-conspiracy-theories-part-1.html

Debunkers have had no impact whatsoever except to start people questioning when some things are automatically labeled "conspiracy theory" as an attack or political strategy. Good job.

That's why you all hang here when it comes to 9/11. You've been cornered. And you can never leave. Except to quit like Gravy. Your hero who has abandoned you.


Thanks for the unveiled threat of hanging, but as a Canadian, **** you! Try and hang me.

TAM:)

[funk de fino]

That's why you all hang here when it comes to 9/11. You've been cornered. And you can never leave. Except to quit like Gravy. Your hero who has abandoned you.

Ha ha, cornered by the same poster in 15 different guises. With the same fat wife and the same stupid posts.

Gravy is your hero. You are distraught he is not here. It really hurts doesn't it?

[Thunder]

Gravy is my hero..for realizing when this place and debunking 9-11 conspiracy "theories" had become a joke..and decided to move on with his life.

You would think that with the loss of Gravy to debunk their silly ideas, 9-11 Truth would have won the day. But yet, it has not.

[roscoe_the_first]

Oh no we wont Gungadin. Close this thread and we'll just say like we're already saying all over the internet that you're too afraid to enter into debate with us.

[funk de fino]

Oh no we wont Gungadin. Close this thread and we'll just say like we're already saying all over the internet that you're too afraid to enter into debate with us.

Going by this post, I hope there is not a roscoe_the_second

[Bell]

Oh no we wont Gungadin. Close this thread and we'll just say like we're already saying all over the internet that you're too afraid to enter into debate with us.

What is there to debate? The evidence that... oh wait...

[carlitos]

Oh no we wont Gungadin. Close this thread and we'll just say like we're already saying all over the internet that you're too afraid to enter into debate with us.If you say it all over the internet, that makes it true.

[ElMondoHummus]

I'm on record in previous threads as saying we shouldn't close the subforum. However, as a compromise, I'd like to propose that all threads started by conspiracy peddlers which does nothing but rehash what's gone before get an automatic reply consisting of the Picard facepalm. It would save everyone the trouble by summing up what the inevitable responses would be anyway.

:D

[DC]

If you say it all over the internet, that makes it true.

not alsong there is no YT video of it.

ETA:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ElMondoHummus !!!

[carlitos]

When I first signed up here, my goal was not to engage any truther that wouldn't put forward an actual hypothesis for the day's events. Fail by me.

[Dave Rogers]

Oh no we wont Gungadin. Close this thread and we'll just say like we're already saying all over the internet that you're too afraid to enter into debate with us.

Yeah, we're terrified now that the government has fallen and the truther death squads are roaming the countryside, hunting down anyone who disagrees with them and stringing them up on the spot in the name of freedom and justice. If only we'd made a few more posts on an obscure Internet forum, maybe we'd have kept the lid on this thing just a little longer.

Dave

[twinstead]

Oh no we wont Gungadin. Close this thread and we'll just say like we're already saying all over the internet that you're too afraid to enter into debate with us.

You are free to say whatever you want; only idiots, ideologues, and insane people will actually believe you.

[jaydeehess]

Close it. I have yet to see this subforum fulfill the mission of the jref, to be a friendly and civil place to discuss this historical event.

The subforum is moderated as if the veracity of the 9/11 official story is a foregone conclusion. Not exactly the most objective way to host discussion. Instead it's been allowed to become a sandbox from which to hurl childish insults and gang up on anyone who dares question the prevailing view.

Hmm, what is the mission of PfT, of the CiT and why do those 9/11 forums ban members for having the veracity to challenge the TM? Why do they immediatly and without prior provacation, insult and gang up on those who challenge them?
If JREF is not perfect in this regard then it is a darn sight closer to it than the sites politically dedicated to the opposing view.

Hey Red.........you've taken a lot of abuse around these parts.....I wonder why we are such suckers for abuse......most of these idiots can't see the forest from the trees.

.......does not compute........cannot process new information.......must trust politicians.....

Hmm, in this thread , before any name calling occured from the debunker side we have a truther calling his opponents idiots and political lackeys.

Yet Red had nothing to say about that.

The political arguement is a favourite of the TM. "You do not believe in therm?te/faked planes/ faked DFDRs/ DEW weaponry/mini-nukes/ therefore you are a political lackey/NWO agent/spook" Personally I and others who agree with my position have been called pedophiles (on another forum) simply based on my opposition to the TM. I have been told that I am receiving money to post and that since I do not believe that 9/11 attacks and the subsequent carnage was propigated by a big bad gov't entity I believe everything that a gov't official or work-a-day plebe tells me.

The political arguement/accusation is the fall back and default position of the TM. It is the starting point from which they derive all 'evidence' and if the perception is that something fits this prejudice then they accept and wear it with pride even if it can be shown to be in gross error. (i.e. we are still told that the absence of a mention of the hurricane in NY weather casts is suspicious despite the fact that this supposedly significant event apparently caused clear skies and light winds in NYC on Sept 11:D.)

[dudalb]

I'm on record in previous threads as saying we shouldn't close the subforum. However, as a compromise, I'd like to propose that all threads started by conspiracy peddlers which does nothing but rehash what's gone before get an automatic reply consisting of the Picard facepalm. It would save everyone the trouble by summing up what the inevitable responses would be anyway.

:D

Seconded.

And Happy Birthday!

[Thunder]

"Boxcutter Conspiracy Theorists".

is there any doubt as to why we think this section should be closed?

[Thunder]

Oh no we wont Gungadin. Close this thread and we'll just say like we're already saying all over the internet that you're too afraid to enter into debate with us.

why should we want to debate you?

there is nothing of significance left to debate. the real fun ended years ago.

[T.A.M.]

Think about why most of us stayed here, once we had found the evidence and explanations we needed to confirm what we suspected...that the allegations and claims of the truthers were bogus...lies.

Most of said we stay in order to expose the charlatans that were promoting the lies, for the fakes they were. We were staying to allow/enable the "fence sitters" to see the lies of the truth movement for what they were...snake oil.

We have done that now...there are very few if any fence sitters left. the vast majority of people who were in any doubt, came, had a look, and most of them decided the TM was full of crap.

After 9 years, what have they done, who have they convinced? You really think we need to stay here and expose them? I don't...they have already been exposed, and the jury is in...guilty of lies and mistruths.

We are only validating, incorrectly, the notions of a few remaining dingbats, if you ask me, by keeping an entire subforum dedicated to the topic.

Let it die I say.

TAM:)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

No, wrong. He made out like a bandit when he received much more compensation than he invested and refuses to contribute his own money to the rebuilding, seeking instead public and private funds.

Paying more than a billion dollars in rent on a hole in the ground that hasn't generated any income in nearly ten years is "making out like a bandit" to you?

Are you on drugs?

[Thunder]

Paying more than a billion dollars in rent on a hole in the ground that hasn't generated any income in nearly ten years is "making out like a bandit" to you?

$150 million a year in rent x 9 years= $1.35 billion in rent....for a hole.

yikes.

[fourtoe]

I know a lot of the arguments have been done over and over again. I can appreciate why ppl are sick of seeing the same threads with the same trolling tactics etc etc etc.

But there are two main things that I kind of just thought of that I think still make this forum important. One is that this conspiracy is so recent, and because of that there is still a bunch of evidence being released. And there is KSM's trial that is pretty significant. The second thing is that the big shots in the TM are con artists. They are using dishonest tactics that should still be called out. Sure they're using the same crappy arguments, but they also do so in very deceitful ways.

Just my 0.02.

[RedIbis]

Paying more than a billion dollars in rent on a hole in the ground that hasn't generated any income in nearly ten years is "making out like a bandit" to you?

Are you on drugs?

Except he's not.

[T.A.M.]

I know a lot of the arguments have been done over and over again. I can appreciate why ppl are sick of seeing the same threads with the same trolling tactics etc etc etc.

But there are two main things that I kind of just thought of that I think still make this forum important. One is that this conspiracy is so recent, and because of that there is still a bunch of evidence being released. And there is KSM's trial that is pretty significant. The second thing is that the big shots in the TM are con artists. They are using dishonest tactics that should still be called out. Sure they're using the same crappy arguments, but they also do so in very deceitful ways.

Just my 0.02.

Valid arguments, though I think your first is better. I hadn't really thought about the KSM and Bin ALshibh trials. Perhaps they will generate other angles. I suspect they will generate a lot of rehashing more then anything, but I suppose it may be a valid reason to give 9/11 truth more then just a single thread...

TAM:)

[JoeTheJuggler]

So how about it, truthers? You provide us with 1 (one) piece of evidence that proofs 9/11 was an inside job and we'll ask the JREF that this subforum be closed.

I don't follow the reasoning here. It seems to me if there were anything to this CT that would be all the more reason to discuss it.

I'd be in favor of closing it simply because all the Truther's "arguments" have long since been debunked, and they're just repeating the same old nonsense.

Oh--I think I get it. If you close the 9/11 CT subforum, these threads would appear elsewhere on the forum. How about close the forum, and any new 9/11 CT threads get moved to AAH?

[MikeW]

I hadn't really thought about the KSM and Bin ALshibh trials. Perhaps they will generate other angles.
I'm sure they will. There's also likely to be more activity around the 10th anniversary: new books, documentaries, I'd guess As Sahab will provide one or two of the more important hijacker video wills. And after that, there's the release of Bush-era documents to NARA.

But on the other hand, while this might provide more material for debating truthers, it won't make the process any more worthwhile. They will continue to deny and deceive, repeat the same old things, demand answers and then ignore the ones they're given.

So, I've no doubt that there will be interesting things to learn about 9/11 in the next few years. But not by debating no-planers or discussing whether fire really could have melted steel.

[Profanz]

If this place would close it would be the debunkers who keep 9/11 truth alive in the other forums. Which is probably why this sub-forum as created in the first place. They really have nothing better to do. Except try to pretend their job is done. Why don't some people go back and do some statistics about what side of the issue posts here the most? Is it really the truthers?

BAH HA HA HA HA HA

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[Brattus]

In my humble opinion the point of this sub forum has been made long before most of us even started coming here.

The horrible and tragic events that occurred on 9/11/2001 do not involve imaginary rivers of molten steel, the temperature that melts steel or what did and did not turn to dust when the towers collapsed.

9/11/2001 involved people. Ordinary people who had one last choice to make in life and one last choice to make to live.

Jump to certain death or burn alive.

Go down when all the others were going up.

Keep moving or leave the stairwell and follow that faint cry for help you only thought you heard.

To walk or jump over that person who had fallen on the steps or stop and reach out a helping hand.

To run into a towering hell storm when everyone else was running as far away from it as possible.

Leave when you still had the chance or staying till the last second of your life fighting to save just one more person.

To huddle in the back of the plane in fear or rise up as one and shout in a loud clear voice your terror will not win today!

Perhaps in our own small way on this sub forum we can follow the example shown to us by those brave and departed people.

We can do something unprecedented in forum history and stand as one and in one voice say we will not allow you to insult the memories of the victims and survivors of the tragic events that occurred on 9/11/2001 on our forum with your insane babbling and just asking questions any longer.

The twoofers who come on this sub forum and create their silly stupid threads simply couldn't care less about those people who were killed, crippled or somehow some way lived through that murderous day.

To them it's a word based internet chess game.
Black against white. White against black.
They cherry pick out of context responses from the debunkers here and carry them back to their twoofer forums holding them out like trophy's of trivial concessions.

BUT!

They can't play with out us!
I suggest that no matter if this sub forum is closed or not we as one simply no longer dignify the stupid silly crap they post with any response whatsoever!
We are the fuel to their fire!
Let's all follow Gravys example and put that fire out once and for all!

This of course being my last post in this sub forum.

[Bell]

If this place would close it would be the debunkers who keep 9/11 truth alive in the other forums. Which is probably why this sub-forum as created in the first place. They really have nothing better to do. Except try to pretend their job is done. Why don't some people go back and do some statistics about what side of the issue posts here the most? Is it really the truthers?

BAH HA HA HA HA HA

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

4 and a half days since this thread is up, and still no evidence that 9/11 was an inside job. You do realize that as soon as you and your fellow truthers proof 9/11 was an inside job, there would be nothing more to debunk? Hence this sub forum could be closed, since there would be no need for it anymore. But maybe you need 8.5 more years?

[Foolmewunz]

If this place would close it would be the debunkers who keep 9/11 truth alive in the other forums. Which is probably why this sub-forum as created in the first place. They really have nothing better to do. Except try to pretend their job is done. Why don't some people go back and do some statistics about what side of the issue posts here the most? Is it really the truthers?

BAH HA HA HA HA HA

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You have no idea how right you are. Take a look at the formerly mighty LCF, who took to banning debunkers on sight (and JREFF members if they recognized even a screen name). They never recovered from the lack of opposition. Take a look at the PFT and CIT forums. You could stage the World Cup in there, there's so much space available. Threads start in those places every day or second day. Responses number five or six, at most, in a day. Why? The don't allow debunkers.

The debate is over. All that's left is the true believers and mercenaries. And as you're clearly saying, the true believers just want to be left alone with your monomania to count moonbeams in the garden without having to deal with pesky old reality. The mercenaries - Gage comes to mind - just want to milk this cow for as long as they can.

I wouldn't miss it if this sub-forum closed down. But I'd hate to lose the focal point for so many truthers. It's nice to have them all here so that when we start rounding them up for the death camps we can find them easily.

[Arus808]

I propose that the 9/11 subforum be moderated. And that any new threads be monitored then released if its actually something that is new and not old debunked stuff.

911 is over.

[roscoe_the_first]

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Also, it seems apropos to link to this thread by Gravy from 2008:

But you don't make an argument. You always come up with some standard answer and when that gets hit back at you you then cry foul and start in your usual ridicule mode. You think that once you've made a response and it didn't impress that's the end of the argument and you have no back up.

No closing your 911 section will be reported around the internet that JREF is running away from the issue.

You suffer from Cognitive Dissonance. It's the old fox and the sour grapes fable from Aesop. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes)

[dafydd]

It should be closed down.The CT business is dead and buried,apart from a few nutters on the internet.

[twinstead]

No closing your 911 section will be reported around the internet that JREF is running away from the issue.


You say that as if "the internet" thinking that JREF is running away from the issue actually means that JREF is running away from the issue--just as much as "the internet" thinking 911 was an inside job actually means it was. Both mean no such thing.

[Dave Rogers]

No closing your 911 section will be reported around the internet a small group of delusional conspiracist websites that think they're the whole Internet that JREF is running away from the issue.

FTFY

Dave

[NutCracker]

FTFY

Dave

Yep, and

issue->their nonsense

[T.A.M.]

But you don't make an argument. You always come up with some standard answer and when that gets hit back at you you then cry foul and start in your usual ridicule mode. You think that once you've made a response and it didn't impress that's the end of the argument and you have no back up.

No closing your 911 section will be reported around the internet that JREF is running away from the issue.

You suffer from Cognitive Dissonance. It's the old fox and the sour grapes fable from Aesop. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes)

oh noes. does that mean you'll all get together (all 4 of you left) and high five over defeating the JREF.

The JREF 9/11 SF has been here for 4 years now. It has had many truthers visit, many who argue much better then you roscoe. It is over, it has all been argued. No one here attempts or expects to convince you or any other truther of anything...that has been proven here time and time again. Stick with your delusions all you want. The Jury of public opinion on the 9/11 CTs came in in 2006-2007, and sentencing was returned when Obama took the white house.

but, just like the arguments of 9/11, I suspect my above statements will have no effect on you...so be it.

TAM:)

[kookbreaker]

I think that it should be kept open, but we should adapt a variation on the BAUT forum rules where kooks are not allowed to keep on ranting without answering questions. It prevents moon-hoax nutters from using the platform for their unsupported opinions without answering the direct confrontations to their claims.

[kookbreaker]

I would point to the sticky on their Conspiracy section:

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/86593-Advice-for-Conspiracy-Theory-Supporters

Adapting some of those rules for this subforum might not be a bad idea. Pretending to be neutral and then become full-out woo? OUtta here.

[EventHorizon]

But you don't make an argument. You always come up with some standard answer and when that gets hit back at you you then cry foul and start in your usual ridicule mode. You think that once you've made a response and it didn't impress that's the end of the argument and you have no back up.



Evidence?

[rsalinger]

I like the idea of keeping it open but with more moderation so that we aren't seeing the same items each time when they've been answered in previous threads but are still open to new stuff from the truth movement. I know that I post elsewhere and I always come over here and see what some of the people here are saying as well. I've gotten some excellent points over the years and I'd miss the forum's take on new material as it surfaces.

[I Ratant]

Other than providing obviously mentally disturbed people a forum other than the usual standing on the street corners and shouting at the passing cars, this subsection has no purpose.
There are sufficient sewers available on the Internet for these brain damaged people to fester at.
Their presence here demeans the purpose of the site, as dementia can't be fixed with a few words.

[carlitos]

I would point to the sticky on their Conspiracy section:

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/86593-Advice-for-Conspiracy-Theory-Supporters

Adapting some of those rules for this subforum might not be a bad idea. Pretending to be neutral and then become full-out woo? OUtta here.

I like these rules. They seem quite reasonable, given what happens when people here don't adhere to such reasonable conduct.

[dafydd]

Other than providing obviously mentally disturbed people a forum other than the usual standing on the street corners and shouting at the passing cars, this subsection has no purpose.
There are sufficient sewers available on the Internet for these brain damaged people to fester at.
Their presence here demeans the purpose of the site, as dementia can't be fixed with a few words.

Hear hear!

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Except he's not.

Says the Holocaust denier:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/Kilstryke/JonesEndorsement.jpg

[RedIbis]

Says the Holocaust denier:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/Kilstryke/JonesEndorsement.jpg

What are you babbling about?

[T.A.M.]

I Love the "half truths, false information, speculation, and no substance" line.

Talk about the ultimate POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK!!!

The meters are on bust.

TAM:)

[dafydd]

What are you babbling about?

Your penny will drop eventually.Think about it.

[Thunder]

I have changed my mind on this issue 100%.

I say keep this place open...forever.

Or at least until the only folks posting here are Truthers, and the traffic is reduced to maybe 5 posts a day.

But in my 3 day sabbatical, it became very clear to me that MANY "debunkers" and others totally love this section, and love arguing with and dissing Truthers.

So, let it stay!!!

:)

[T.A.M.]

I have changed my mind on this issue 100%.

I say keep this place open...forever.

Or at least until the only folks posting here are Truthers, and the traffic is reduced to maybe 5 posts a day.

But in my 3 day sabbatical, it became very clear to me that MANY "debunkers" and others totally love this section, and love arguing with and dissing Truthers.

So, let it stay!!!

:)

It does provide a distracting type amusement that allows one to vent or metaphorically "beat up" on someone to get rid of the pent up frustrations.

Notice the large increase in active truthers here in last few days. Whats up with that???

TAM;)

[Thunder]

It does provide a distracting type amusement that allows one to vent or metaphorically "beat up" on someone to get rid of the pent up frustrations.

exactly. if anything, leave the section open just for the fun you guys have at making truthers look stupid and silly.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The 9/11 CT section stopped being a discussion forum a long time ago. Now it's almost solely a containment vessel, shut down the forum and you lose containment.

I'm not unsympathetic to those who think it has lost all usefulness, however.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

What are you babbling about?

That's the source of the claims that Silverstein hasn't lost gobs of money due to 9/11. We've discussed Rajter, his sloppy research and his rabid hatred of jews before (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=79316). I'll let you go read that link now so you can come back here and pathetically flail about trying to defend work that even the ignominious Dr. Jones admits is probably bull@#$%.

[Thunder]

The 9/11 CT section stopped being a discussion forum a long time ago. Now it's almost solely a containment vessel, shut down the forum and you lose containment.

oh, you mean that if we close the 9-11 CT section, this will happen:

-DpPicOZOig

Notice all the truthers ghosts escaping from WTC 7.

:)

[Foolmewunz]

But you don't make an argument. You always come up with some standard answer and when that gets hit back at you you then cry foul and start in your usual ridicule mode. You think that once you've made a response and it didn't impress that's the end of the argument and you have no back up.

No closing your 911 section will be reported around the internet that JREF is running away from the issue.

You suffer from Cognitive Dissonance. It's the old fox and the sour grapes fable from Aesop. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes)


Yeah, the JREF is running away from the issue. Sez the CIT/PFFFFT stooge who couldn't even take the heat IN HIS OWN THREAD and ran for the hills after he was diced into little tiny Aldo bite-sized pieces, chewed up, and then spit out all over the area rug in our Junior Debunkers' Lounge. The Big Dawgs didn't even come out for this one, Roscoe. They let us lightweights have you as a chew-toy.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6013909#post6013909

Yeah, Roscoe.... you go tell your vast following to check out your threads, here. We'll thank you for it. It'll remind them that even their type-o-tastic blabbermouths start crapping their pants before long.

I'll re-emphasize my vote to keep it open. (Is that what I said last time?) It's like a Bizarro World Roach Motel. Truthers check in, and they check back out.

[RedIbis]

That's the source of the claims that Silverstein hasn't lost gobs of money due to 9/11. We've discussed Rajter, his sloppy research and his rabid hatred of jews before (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=79316). I'll let you go read that link now so you can come back here and pathetically flail about trying to defend work that even the ignominious Dr. Jones admits is probably bull@#$%.

That aint the source. I've posted numerous links in this thread that document Silverstein's investments and his settlements.

Don't fling that crap around like it's the only source of this information, a very silly tactic that for some reason is preferred around here.

[Bell]

This thread is running for a week now. And still not one single piece of evidence to proof 9/11 was an inside job.

Thank you truthers for showing (or rather not showing) that the 9/11 conspiracies have no grasp in reality whatsoever.

I'm afraid that this subforum will never close but stay in perpetual motion of bat crap crazy.

[Thunder]

I'm afraid that this subforum will never close but stay in perpetual motion of bat crap crazy.

Lets be perfectly honest: this sub-forum is being kept alive by Debunkers....not Truthers.

[dtugg]

That aint the source. I've posted numerous links in this thread that document Silverstein's investments and his settlements.

Don't fling that crap around like it's the only source of this information, a very silly tactic that for some reason is preferred around here.

You haven't posted a single link in this thread. Why do you tell such obvious lies?

[T.A.M.]

Lets be perfectly honest: this sub-forum is being kept alive by Debunkers....not Truthers.

It is being kept alive by human nature. Human nature to respond when one see verbal diarrhea being flung around as gospel.

Truthers come and post nonsense, and debunkers respond.

TAM:)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I've posted numerous links in this thread that document Silverstein's investments and his settlements.

You've posted no links in this thread of any kind whatsoever. One has to wonder why you choose to lie when the lie is so easily checked and you have nothing to gain from it? I wonder if it's a mental illness with you, something you literally cannot control, maybe?

Anyone interested in further proof that Redibis is deliberately and blatantly dishonest may simply page through the last 3 and a half pages of this thread.

[Mr.D]

Close it down and merge the threads back into the Conspiracy Theories forum.

Let any 9/11 CTers who wish post new topics in the CT forum. The mere existence of the subforum is the only reason there's any significant number of new topics opened up on 9/11.

Besides, it's distracting away from the "Real Truth" like the conspiracy to gang stalk the chemtrails on the fake moon set. Or something ...