[Merged] "She's a raghead" / Racial politics in South Carolina? Say it ain't so! [Archive]

Tricky

4th June 2010, 08:02 AM

I should be immune by now to the stream of mud that is South Carolina politics, but I cannot help being outraged by this latest effluvium (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/03/nikki-haley-called-raghead-by-political-opponent/?fbid=RHjLij53dNO).

“We already got one raghead in the White House, we don’t need a raghead in the governor’s mansion,” Knotts said, according to multiple people present for the broadcast.
Knotts made the comment after discussing Haley’s Sikh background, said Phil Bailey, one of the show’s hosts and the communications director for the South Carolina Senate Democratic Caucus.

And this is just infighting. Nikki Haley is running for the Republican nomination.

If I were a moderate Republican right now, I'd be hanging my head in shame for the disgusting hatred and racism that comes out of my party. I guess a few of them are.
South Carolina Republican Party chairwoman Karen Floyd called on Knotts to apologize.

johnny karate

4th June 2010, 08:26 AM

Sikh = raghead?

Let this be a lesson to the kids: the important thing is to hate, not necessarily be accurate in your hatred.

KingMerv00

4th June 2010, 08:30 AM

Deleted because I wasn't paying attention.

Tricky

4th June 2010, 08:31 AM

Sikh = raghead?

Let this be a lesson to the kids: the important thing is to hate, not necessarily be accurate in your hatred.

Well, Sikhs are more likely to wear a turban than many near-east folks. In fact, they're the only ones I know that wear them regularly in the US.

rwguinn

4th June 2010, 08:32 AM

johnny karate

4th June 2010, 08:47 AM

Do a Google image search for this clown. He looks like the poster boy for white Southern bigots. It's how I imagine the movie Mississippi Burning would look if it were a person.

Thunder

4th June 2010, 09:35 AM

ahhh.....South Carolina.

I will never forget my tour of Fort Sumter, the Civil War battle re-enactment, or the guy dressed as General Lee at Bessinger's BBQ joint.

Jekyll's Guest

4th June 2010, 09:40 AM

ahhh.....South Carolina.

I will never forget my tour of Fort Sumter, the Civil War battle re-enactment, or the guy dressed as General Lee at Bessinger's BBQ joint.

The South shall rise again!, and get more chicken wings!

TragicMonkey

4th June 2010, 09:40 AM

ahhh.....South Carolina.

I will never forget my tour of Fort Sumter, the Civil War battle re-enactment, or the guy dressed as General Lee at Bessinger's BBQ joint.

Barbecue that good is almost worth all the stupid. And those onion rings! I love bringing people who've never been there and telling them "this is an onion ring". They always think they're doughnuts.

Tricky

4th June 2010, 10:20 AM

Barbecue that good is almost worth all the stupid. And those onion rings! I love bringing people who've never been there and telling them "this is an onion ring". They always think they're doughnuts.
Just add Carolina tomatoless barbecue to the things that South Carolina can't be forgiven for.

Jekyll's Guest

4th June 2010, 10:27 AM

Just add Carolina tomatoless barbecue to the things that South Carolina can't be forgiven for.

A squeezy bottle of Craft BBQ is ok though, right?

Drudgewire

4th June 2010, 10:30 AM

Just add Carolina tomatoless barbecue to the things that South Carolina can't be forgiven for.

You can trash our politicians, but you start dissing mustard-based BBQ sauce and we're going to have problems pally. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/fist4su.gif

Tricky

4th June 2010, 10:32 AM

Just add Carolina tomatoless barbecue to the things that South Carolina can't be forgiven for.

A squeezy bottle of Craft BBQ is ok though, right?
A slight improvement. Real barbecue sauce is made at with tomato sauce and lots of other ingredients (not giving you my recipe) and cooked into the meat slowly.

But we derail. If you want to discuss barbecue over in Community, I'm game. (Though it's been done before.)

ETA:
Barbecue's cookin' over in community. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=5998956#post5998956)

dudalb

4th June 2010, 11:33 AM

What can you expect from the state that gave us The Civil War?

Drudgewire

4th June 2010, 04:53 PM

In fairness, the fact South Carolina has a Republican gubernatorial candidate who is a woman with a Sikh family background suggests there are a lot of us who don't fit the stereotype.

And in addition to his many other shortcomings Knotts is no friend to gun owners, so the quicker his political career ends the happier MANY Republicans as well as Democrats in this state will be.

johnny karate

4th June 2010, 05:00 PM

Please don't rain on our South-bashing parade.

Redtail

4th June 2010, 05:00 PM

Just add Carolina tomatoless barbecue to the things that South Carolina can't be forgiven for.
Oh hell no! Do I have to bring up the white sauce from bama?

Howie Felterbush

4th June 2010, 05:15 PM

I am pro-Sikh.

I'm not really a religion guy, but I like a religion that requires you to whip ass to protect the little guy and get together once in a while and have a big feast. :)

Ziggurat

4th June 2010, 05:49 PM

Sikh = raghead?

They wear turbans. There isn't really any more substance to the insult than that for arabs or muslims either.

Tricky

4th June 2010, 06:35 PM

They wear turbans. There isn't really any more substance to the insult than that for arabs or muslims either.
Yes, Sikhs do wear turbans, and do so in western society as well as in their homelands. However, their turbans are usually extremely high quality cloth and not inexpensive, so even if it weren't just intended as demeaning, it would still be wrong.

As far as I can tell, though, Obama, the other person he called a "raghead" is not and never was Sikh, and does not wear a turban. But really, there is not any doubt that this was meant as an ethnic slur. Maybe racial. I'm sometimes unclear on the lines of race vs. ethnicity.

Thunder

4th June 2010, 06:39 PM

Rag-head is a term for Muslims/Arabs. Clearly, this guy can't understand the difference between Sihks and Muslims. This is a common misunderstanding in the good ol' USA.

Accidental Martyr

4th June 2010, 07:41 PM

Oh hell no! Do I have to bring up the white sauce from bama?

Mmmm, yeah. :) Invented in 1925 by Big Bob Gibson in Decatur, Alabama.

Chaos

5th June 2010, 05:26 AM

Rag-head is a term for Muslims/Arabs. Clearly, this guy can't understand the difference between Sihks and Muslims. This is a common misunderstanding in the good ol' USA.

It´s a common misunderstanding with racists everywhere. At least inasfar as misunderstanding is the correct term referring to the mental processes of those who build their world view on not understanding anything.

Schrodinger's Cat

5th June 2010, 06:55 AM

Do a Google image search for this clown. He looks like the poster boy for white Southern bigots. It's how I imagine the movie Mississippi Burning would look if it were a person.

great description.

Yalius

5th June 2010, 04:23 PM

Tricky

6th June 2010, 07:52 PM

If I might add something in defense of the state I used to live in, not everywhere in SC is controlled by racism. I was happily present in a town called Goose Creek during a march by the Ku Klux Klan. Who did the town council employ supervise the marchers? This is the person who inspected the marchers, their vehicles, and approved the path they took through the city.

Reuben Greenberg. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuben_Greenberg)

He roller skated along with the marchers, up and down the entire length of the procession, shaking hands and greeting spectators.
Yeah, that's true I'm sure. There are pockets of any place that are not like the others. I grew up in Alabama, but Huntsville is a progressive, fairly liberal city. Also, some colleges are better.

One of my most fond rememberences at the University of Alabama (in the 70s) was when they elected a black homecoming queen. I think most people did it so George Wallace would have to kiss her. (For the record, he only shook her hand, the jerk.)

So yes, I don't mean to condemn the whole state.

Just most of it.

Accidental Martyr

6th June 2010, 10:36 PM

Yeah, that's true I'm sure. There are pockets of any place that are not like the others. I grew up in Alabama, but Huntsville is a progressive, fairly liberal city. Also, some colleges are better.

One of my most fond rememberences at the University of Alabama (in the 70s) was when they elected a black homecoming queen. I think most people did it so George Wallace would have to kiss her. (For the record, he only shook her hand, the jerk.)

So yes, I don't mean to condemn the whole state.

Just most of it.

Have you seen this?
http://www.bamagirlfilm.com/

ponderingturtle

7th June 2010, 06:47 AM

Well, Sikhs are more likely to wear a turban than many near-east folks. In fact, they're the only ones I know that wear them regularly in the US.

It makes more sense than Sikhs. Kenyan muslims don't seem to be terribly likely to wear such a hat.

Alferd_Packer

8th June 2010, 07:23 AM

Jake Knots, a South Carolina State Senator said this about Lexington Rep. Nikki Haley, an Indian-American Republican woman running for governor"

"She's a ***** Raghead."

he later clarified his remarks.

"I didn’t mean to say "*****."

He also seems to think that she is part of a foreign conspiracy to take over South Carolina.

Earth to Knots: the Indians have enough trouble with fundy nut jobs, they don’t need ours.

KoihimeNakamura

8th June 2010, 07:30 AM

.... *sweatdrop*

Ah, South Carolina..

ponderingturtle

8th June 2010, 07:34 AM

You are about 4 days late

Tricky beat you to it. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=177299)

Jekyll's Guest

8th June 2010, 07:44 AM

Firstly, he was mis-quoted. He meant to say "we already have a chick on the rag in the White House, and don't need another one". See? Outrage over nothing.

Secondly, that is one white bread looking Sikh family. If you can be upset by John and Jane there you can be upset by anyone.

Suddenly

8th June 2010, 08:15 AM

If you know how to cook the BBQ in the first place, you don't need any sauce. Nobody puts sauce on my brisket, or at least not without risk of bodily injury.

Anyway, there is always something to be shocked about in the south. I was fond of my first day as a public defender in a rural southern county. I'd until then lived in the far north of the state and in the bigger cities. We were at a conference at some low rent resort, and our board chairman was there and said a blessing before the meal. All fine and dandy, just that he ended it with....

"...and God bless the father of our country, Robert E. Lee."

I'm not easy to shock. That one ranks in my top five.

Undesired Walrus

8th June 2010, 08:30 AM

Well, Sikhs are more likely to wear a turban than many near-east folks. In fact, they're the only ones I know that wear them regularly in the US.

It's not very raggy is it though?

Jekyll's Guest

8th June 2010, 08:33 AM

"...and God bless the father of our country, Robert E. Lee."

I'm not easy to shock. That one ranks in my top five.

"He then slapped his penis out on the table, shouted 'GET IT WHILE IT"S HOT!', and the assembled folks broke out in whooping and lip smacking.

My fifth shock happened in the parking lot on my way out..."

leftysergeant

8th June 2010, 10:24 AM

Sikh = raghead?

Let this be a lesson to the kids: the important thing is to hate, not necessarily be accurate in your hatred.

Don't make much never-mind to your average redneck.

I heard of two or three Sikhs being shot during the aftermath of 9/11/01.

Haters are obviously not much sharper than a bowling ball.

As for Southern culture, I have my problems with that corner of the country.

When I returned from Libya in 1968, I thought the country had changed in a way that I was going to like, based on Seattle. Then I reported to Pope AFB, NC.

First thing I saw at the city limits of Fayetteville was a big bill board that read: "Fight Communism and Integration...Join the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan."

Oh, Lord, now what?

I almost didn't get out of there alive.

Sword_Of_Truth

8th June 2010, 10:45 AM

In fairness, the fact South Carolina has a Republican gubernatorial candidate who is a woman with a Sikh family background suggests there are a lot of us who don't fit the stereotype.

Funny how they slide right past the fact of Haley's existence and head straight for mid-level flunky making a jackass of himself, ain't it?

Haley is also enjoying a 20 point lead in a 4-way race (http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/06/haley-staying-strong.html) thus making it a large majority of republicans failing to live down to the stereotype. A sloppy, ineffectual attempt by the OP. Too bad.

Sword_Of_Truth

8th June 2010, 10:49 AM

Yes, Sikhs do wear turbans, and do so in western society as well as in their homelands. However, their turbans are usually extremely high quality cloth and not inexpensive, so even if it weren't just intended as demeaning, it would still be wrong.

I live in a suburb in Canada with large Sikh and Hindu minority (or maybe I live in a Sikh/Hindu neighborhood with a large white minority?), and from what I've seen, Sikh women don't wear turbans. It's exclusively the males.

Cleon

8th June 2010, 11:12 AM

Funny how they slide right past the fact of Haley's existence and head straight for mid-level flunky making a jackass of himself, ain't it?

Haley is also enjoying a 20 point lead in a 4-way race (http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/06/haley-staying-strong.html) thus making it a large majority of republicans failing to live down to the stereotype. A sloppy, ineffectual attempt by the OP. Too bad.

Re-bolding mine. It's really not the "republican" part that people are associating with racism. It's the "South Carolina conservative" part.

Sword_Of_Truth

8th June 2010, 11:17 AM

Re-bolding mine. It's really not the "republican" part that people are associating with racism. It's the "South Carolina conservative" part.

And the south carolina conservatives appear to be acquitting themselves well. Her skin color, religion and gender have thus far not appeared to hurt her prospects.

Cleon

8th June 2010, 11:27 AM

And the south carolina conservatives appear to be acquitting themselves well.

Considering their record lately, glad to see it.

Her skin color, religion and gender have thus far not appeared to hurt her prospects.

Her skin color is pretty light-skinned for a south Asian. As for her religion - she's a Methodist. Believe me, if she was still Sikh (or other non-Christian religion), she wouldn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of getting elected. Maybe in NC, but not in SC.

Sword_Of_Truth

8th June 2010, 11:37 AM

As for her religion - she's a Methodist. Believe me, if she was still Sikh (or other non-Christian religion), she wouldn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of getting elected. Maybe in NC, but not in SC.

Perhaps.

In my neighborhood, if a sikh can't get into office, it's because of hindu block-voting (or vice-versa). It's a weird situation where local politics is dictated as much by what's happening on the other side of the planet as it is by city hall.

Tricky

8th June 2010, 12:43 PM

I live in a suburb in Canada with large Sikh and Hindu minority (or maybe I live in a Sikh/Hindu neighborhood with a large white minority?), and from what I've seen, Sikh women don't wear turbans. It's exclusively the males.
That's true, but when it comes to racial slurs, vehemence is more important than absolute accuracy. Truthfully, I think it is mostly men that wear turbans in most turbanic societies. If women cover their heads, it is with a scarf or robe.

johnny karate

8th June 2010, 01:10 PM

You guys are quibbling over irrelevant details. She wears some rag-like cloth on her head, and that's all that really matters. Let the hatred commence!

ponderingturtle

8th June 2010, 01:16 PM

That's true, but when it comes to racial slurs, vehemence is more important than absolute accuracy. Truthfully, I think it is mostly men that wear turbans in most turbanic societies. If women cover their heads, it is with a scarf or robe.

True remember the politician who used macaca. He used it improperly, it is for calling black people monkeys not people from india. It is just shameful how little effort people in to be sure to use the right racial slur.

Jekyll's Guest

8th June 2010, 02:03 PM

True remember the politician who used macaca. He used it improperly, it is for calling black people monkeys not people from india. It is just shameful how little effort people in to be sure to use the right racial slur.

So now you're demanding he use a racially sensitive slur?

PC gone mad!

dudalb

8th June 2010, 02:12 PM

Perhaps.

In my neighborhood, if a sikh can't get into office, it's because of hindu block-voting (or vice-versa). It's a weird situation where local politics is dictated as much by what's happening on the other side of the planet as it is by city hall.

What is intersting is that there are a large number of Sikhs in and around Sacramento, and they own a lot of the large Rice Farms in the Sacramento valley,particularly around Marysville and Yuba City..which also have a large population of ,for lack of a better term, Rednecks transplanted from the South.
There are a politicla power to be reckoned with, and anybody in either party running for office in the Northren Part of the Sacremento Valley makes a point to visit the Sikh Temple in Marysville and be seen eating at an Indian Restaruant....

fuelair

8th June 2010, 04:15 PM

Don't make much never-mind to your average redneck.

I heard of two or three Sikhs being shot during the aftermath of 9/11/01.

Haters are obviously not much sharper than a bowling ball.

As for Southern culture, I have my problems with that corner of the country.

When I returned from Libya in 1968, I thought the country had changed in a way that I was going to like, based on Seattle. Then I reported to Pope AFB, NC.

First thing I saw at the city limits of Fayetteville was a big bill board that read: "Fight Communism and Integration...Join the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan."

Oh, Lord, now what?

I almost didn't get out of there alive.But, when they wear their little nightshirts, you have a big advantage - just put your shot in the cross over the heart or the one over the place where the brain is found on real people.

JoeTheJuggler

8th June 2010, 06:08 PM

Wow--I only just now read about some of these goings on (http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/06/08/south.carolina.primary/index.html?hpt=T1). I can't believe people are trying to support their stories with polygraph tests.

It sounds like a Jerry Springer episode. I'm waiting for someone to use "lie detector" as a verb. (As in, "Lie detector my opponent!")

Tricky

8th June 2010, 06:15 PM

So now you're demanding he use a racially sensitive slur?

PC gone mad!
"Well, to tell the family secret, my grandmother was Dutch."
--Sheriff Bart (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/quotes)

KoihimeNakamura

8th June 2010, 06:28 PM

Sword of Truth: Maybe, but it's a bit effective to mock the one idiot and hopes he loses traction. (Besides, the South traditionally votes Republican or local Dem/national Republican anyway - thanks to the Civil Rights Act.)

Skeptic

9th June 2010, 04:54 AM

Sikh = raghead?

Well, literally speaking, yes... the male ones at least... but I think what he meant by "raghead" was "Muslim" or "Arab".

Both of those groups, unlike Sikhs, do not as a rule wear a cloth headdress.

Then again, perhaps he had no choice. Is it his personal fault that, in America, there is no racial slur specifically aimed as Sikhs?

"Raghead" is the closest he could get, I suppose.

ponderingturtle

10th June 2010, 07:18 AM

So now you're demanding he use a racially sensitive slur?

PC gone mad!

No this is not PC but being pedantic.

Jekyll's Guest

10th June 2010, 08:20 AM

No this is not PC but being pedantic.

So now I have to touch kids?

You liberal scum sicken me!

Naddig74

12th June 2010, 08:28 AM

Tricky

12th June 2010, 08:56 AM

You guys must have seen Chris Rock's controversial stand-up about 'black people versus n-words.'

I suggest a similar distinction here; rational, sensible, humane arabs and muslims we call arabs or muslims. Anyone who wants to kill, maim and destroy in the name of A Big Beard In The Sky gets to be called a Raghead.
It works in a comedy routine. In real life, how are you going to analyze each Arab or Muslum or Sikh or Hindu to determine what their exact politics are before you apply the "raghead" appelation?

Seriously, if a person uses racist terminology, then people are going to assume they are racist. They're not going to be able to read their mind to know, "Oh, he only means terrorists when he says raghead". And you know what? They'll be right.

Naddig74

12th June 2010, 08:57 AM

There's that problem of course :P

ponderingturtle

14th June 2010, 03:10 AM

You guys must have seen Chris Rock's controversial stand-up about 'black people versus n-words.'

In addition to Tricky's point I will also make the point that this comedy routine only works for him because he is black. A white comic could never get away with the same routine.

So a Muslim comic might well be able to do some Muslims vs Ragheads routine but even then it is not useful for the reasons Tricky outlined.