Is Obama not stregthening border security on purpose?

[applecorped]

Senator: Obama Told Me He's Not Securing Border on Purpose




President Obama is refusing to secure the border until Congress reaches a breakthrough on comprehensive immigration reform, Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl said at a recent town hall meeting.

The No. 2 Senate Republican, in a video clip posted on YouTube showing the senator speaking to a local Tea Party crowd on Friday, said the president told him during a one-on-one meeting in the Oval Office that he was concerned he wouldn't win GOP support on immigration legislation if he took care of border security first.

"The problem is, he said, if we secure the border, then you all won't have any reason to support comprehensive immigration reform," Kyl said, as the crowd in the room gasped loudly. "In other words, they're holding it hostage."

The White House denied the claim on Monday. Spokesman Bill Burton and Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer both said Kyl "knows" Obama did not make that comment to him in their meeting.

"The president didn't say that and Senator Kyl knows it," Pfeiffer said in a written statement. "There are more resources dedicated toward border security today than ever before, but, as the president has made clear, truly securing the border will require a comprehensive solution to our broken immigration system."

Burton repeated the claim at the press briefing Monday afternoon.

But Kyl's office stood by the senator's account. Kyl spokesman Ryan Patmintra said, "There were two people in that meeting, and Dan Pfieffer was not one of them." He said Pfeiffer's call for comprehensive immigration legislation "only confirms" Kyl's story."


Is someone taking advantage of a he said/he said situation to score points? I hope so, because the alternative is depressing.

[applecorped]

Forgot qoute mark before first word.:o

[applecorped]

Can't spell quote either.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Didn't Obama just order an additional 1200 National Guard troops to the border?

It sounds like Sen. Kyl is looking for an explanation for something that isn't so.

But apparently it's popular in Arizona for politicians to claim that the federal government isn't enforcing immigration laws--a blatant falsehood.

[applecorped]

The troops have yet to arrive I hear. Didn't he announce that a month ago?

[JoeTheJuggler]

The troops have yet to arrive I hear. Didn't he announce that a month ago?

Yes, it was announced not quite a month ago. The news stories I read says that Obama ordered them to be deployed. I don't know why they haven't actually deployed yet. (I assumed they had.)

I haven't seen anything about Obama blocking them or holding them up until comprehensive reform passes. I think he correctly said that extra troops is not the solution. Comprehensive reform is.

He also requested an additional $500 million to spend on border security. I haven't heard whether Congress went along with request. Did Kyl make any mention of this funding?

[MikeMangum]

There's an easy way to resolve the he said/he said. Oval office discussions are taped, as Nixon came to regret. I wonder which one of them would balk at the release of the tapes of their discussion? If Kyl is lying, and it is on tape, I can see Obama scoring big points (and taking down someone who called him a liar) by releasing the tape of their conversation. Of course, he'd have to weigh that against the precedent of releasing the tapes merely to rebut a political attack and the effect that would have on increased calls for their release.

[leftysergeant]

Kyl confabulates a lot.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I just looked this up for another thread, but the meme coming out of Arizona that the U.S. government is not enforcing immigration laws is false. (I take Kyl's comments to be a version of this larger meme.)

In fact, in the most recent year for which the statistics are available (2008), enforcement is at record levels:

Reflecting the impact of heightened, strategic enforcement efforts, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) efforts reached record levels in virtually every enforcement category in fiscal year 2008, from criminal, gang and fugitive alien arrests to federal prosecutions and formal deportations. The significant increase is a direct result of ICE's expanded interior immigration enforcement strategy, focusing on three priorities - targeting criminal and fugitive aliens; eliminating the magnet of illegal employment; and dismantling the infrastructure that supports illegal immigration including the criminal organizations engaged in wide-spread identity theft and document fraud.
Linky (http://www.ice.gov/pi/nr/0810/081023washington.htm).

[Beerina]

Is Obama not stregthening border security on purpose?

Probably, just like W. before him. Neither party wants to lose the ever-growing Hispanic vote, which apparently likes illegal immigrants.

So they do what they're good at: lying, to placate you.

[KoihimeNakamura]

Until you look at the stats.

[BeAChooser]

Didn't Obama just order an additional 1200 National Guard troops to the border?

... snip ...

But apparently it's popular in Arizona for politicians to claim that the federal government isn't enforcing immigration laws--a blatant falsehood.

But didn't Obama's administration stated that those 1200 would NOT be used to enforce immigration laws?

[Brainster]

I just looked this up for another thread, but the meme coming out of Arizona that the U.S. government is not enforcing immigration laws is false. (I take Kyl's comments to be a version of this larger meme.)

In fact, in the most recent year for which the statistics are available (2008), enforcement is at record levels:


Linky (http://www.ice.gov/pi/nr/0810/081023washington.htm).

Well, that settles it, provided Obama was the president in 2008. Errr.

[Neally]

Kyl confabulates a lot.Evidence?

Yes, it was announced not quite a month ago. The news stories I read says that Obama ordered them to be deployed. I don't know why they haven't actually deployed yet. (I assumed they had.)

Maybe because it was just a publicity stunt? Obama told Gov. Brewer that he would get back to her within 2 weeks regarding the deployment of Nat. Guard. It's been over 2 weeks and no word.

[INRM]

Of course he's not strengthening border security on purpose. The democrats have a vested interest in the Hispanic vote, so they want to get a lot of illegal immigrants to become citizens for this purpose.

[applecorped]

So, is amnesty next?

[Ysidro]

So why didn't Bush do it? Come on, he must have had a good reason completely different from Obama's right?

Right?

Guys?

[DDWW]

Yes.


DDWW

[Travis]

So, is amnesty next?

I sure hope so.

[applecorped]

Why?

[rwguinn]

I sure hope so.

Why?
If you wave your hand, the problem goes away, and you don't have to deal with it.

[Shalamar]

*WHY* an amnesty?

Bigger penalties for those that hire illegal immigrants, find something that will at least slow them from coming across the border.

I emigrated legally. I'm really annoyed at the illegals, and the government not seeming to want to do anything about it.

[SOdhner]

*WHY* an amnesty?

One thing I'll say is that I'm all for the amnesty thing AFTER some of the underlying problems (the border, the immigration system itself) are resolved. At that point it's just a good way to clean things up. Until then, however, I'm not clear on how it would help.

That being said, on this issue... I wouldn't be shocked to find out they are holding off to gain support for a more comprehensive plan, but I WOULD be shocked to hear that Obama actually said as much to Kyl. That would just be idiotic.

[WildCat]

Of course he's not strengthening border security on purpose. The democrats have a vested interest in the Hispanic vote, so they want to get a lot of illegal immigrants to become citizens for this purpose.
Why bother waiting for them to become citizens? That's why they're fighting having to show identification at the polls. Your word that you are a citizen is good enough.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Well, that settles it, provided Obama was the president in 2008. Errr.
No, it proves that the oft-repeated canard that the federal government is not enforcing immigration laws is not only wrong, it's absurdly wrong since enforcement is at record levels.

Or do you suppose enforcement efforts have dropped off in the last two years? Those statistics aren't available yet, but I'm happy to bet that there has been no significant drop off in these numbers. (If I had to make a projection, I'd say the trend will continue to higher numbers.)

ETA: In case people didn't bother to look at this page the last time I posted the link:
http://www.ice.gov/pi/nr/0810/081023washington.htm

[dtugg]

Sorry, them catching a few percent is hardly impressive.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Sorry, them catching a few percent is hardly impressive.

Compared to what?

And remember, people have been saying simply that the federal government isn't enforcing immigration laws, which of course is not true.

[dtugg]

Compared to what?

Hell, more people are arrested for weed.

And remember, people have been saying simply that the federal government isn't enforcing immigration laws, which of course is not true.

OK, so they should say the federal government does a horrible job of enforcing immigration laws instead.

[MikeMangum]

So why didn't Bush do it? Come on, he must have had a good reason completely different from Obama's right?

Right?

Guys?

Nope. His stance on immigration was about the same as Obama's. He supported "comprehensive reform" as opposed to securing the border. It was one of the things Bush got the most flack for from conservatives, even more than spending or the Harriet Myers nomination.

Karl Rove Forced To Defend Bush Immigration Policy - On Fox News? (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/05/07/karl-rove-forced-defend-bush-immigration-policy-fox-news)

From the wiki page for George W. Bush:
In May 2004, Gallup reported that 89% of the Republican electorate approved of Bush.[289] However, the support waned due mostly to a minority of Republicans' frustration with him on issues of spending, illegal immigration, and Middle Eastern affairs.[290]

And for a little flavor of criticism from actual republicans, here's Michelle Malkin in 2007: Dissecting the Bush/Kennedy shamnesty bill (http://michellemalkin.com/2007/05/20/dissecting-the-bushkennedy-shamnesty-bill/).

Google "Bush shamnesty" and you'll get tons of hits.

[Neally]

A bit more evidence that Obama is not strengthening the border on purpose:
The Obama administration has tapped an outspoken critic of immigration enforcement, Harold Hurtt, on the local level to oversee and promote partnerships between federal and local officials on the issue.

as a police chief, Hurtt was a supporter of "sanctuary city" policies, by which illegal immigrants who don't commit crimes can live without fear of exposure or detainment because police don't check for immigration papers.http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/24/obama-administration-picks-critic-immigration-enforcement-key-role-ice/

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I heard he's not guarding the borders until all his Kenyan relatives have snuck across.

[Newtons Bit]

Why bother waiting for them to become citizens? That's why they're fighting having to show identification at the polls. Your word that you are a citizen is good enough.

I voted in the 2004 election in Socorro, New Mexico. I went to the polling station, and the nice lady there that was checking people in asked me to find my name on a list and check it off. It was more than just a little bit disconcerting.

[Skeptic Ginger]

If it were true, one wonders why Obama would be so careless telling a Republic* that. Seems to me that party has a habit of projecting their own motives on the Democrats. Calling the BP escrow fund a slush fund, for example, is reminiscent of Bush's croneyism. There was no reason to suggest Obama would direct any of those funds as political favors.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

If it were true, one wonders why Obama would be so careless telling a Republic* that.

Maybe it's part of a larger Democ* strategy that we don't know about.





(*Tired of continuing to hear the "Republic Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Democ Party, in response.)

[Jekyll's Guest]

"During that secret meeting with Senator Kyl, he told me that he liked me. A LOT. He then touched my knee."

/Sarah Palin type wink.

[Disco]

So Kyl's now backing up a bit - says his comments were "taken a bit out of context". When he said they, he was referring to the president's base, not the administration.

Nice.

[rwguinn]

I voted in the 2004 election in Socorro, New Mexico. I went to the polling station, and the nice lady there that was checking people in asked me to find my name on a list and check it off. It was more than just a little bit disconcerting.

I think it may be mostly this:
DuJbTs93UY8
Call Rand-McNally!

[KoihimeNakamura]

That wouldn't surprise me (re his base)

[Arrow]

Looks like another 5 states are considering Arizona's new immigration law for them selves.

http://www.lauraingraham.com/blog?categoryID=6#a=1&action=blogArchive&destinationpage=%2Fpg%2Fjsp%2Fcommunity%2Fblog%2Fb loginclude.jsp&year=2010&month=5&categoryID=5&categoryID=6&categoryID=9&categoryID=10

June 25, 2010

States of Defiance: 5 states consider AZ-style immigration laws
Posted by Staff
Proposals similar to Arizona's tough new law against illegal immigraton are under consideration across the country.

Five states - South Carolina, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Michigan - are looking at Arizona-style legislation, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. The group said lawmakers in 17 other states, including Texas, had expressed support for similar measures.

In the first three months of this year, legislators in 45 states introduced 1,180 bills or resolutions dealing with immigrants, an unprecedented number, according to the NCSL. By the end of March, 107 laws and 87 resolutions had been adopted by 34 states, with 38 bills pending.

[Unabogie]

Wait, so a racist Teabagger was lying about about a Democratic President regarding a subject sure to inflame other racist Teabaggers? And now he claims he quoted himself out of context (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_06/024448.php)? I refuse to believe this! Teabaggers would never do such a thing. Kyl is obviously not a true racist Teabagger.

[INRM]

Wildcat,

Well if they get amnesty, and become citizens, that's not an issue anymore