Mel Gibson 's racist rant

[Jono]

You are still excluding the hispanics who identify as white, but since your point now seems to be that women are overrepresented in rape statistics I have no quarrel with that at all. I can't see it is a point worth making, but never mind

First of all, I didn't exclude the self-identifying hispanics who identify as white, according to the wiki demographics under "White alone" (which includes white hispanics and latinos) they are 75%, not 85%.

And my point to that was that white women aren't underrepresented as rape victims, which you claimed earlier.

[Jono]

See, you failed to account in any way for the surroundings, or the specifics of the situation that Jono had set up and instead tried to apply general statistics on rape.

Yes, I did state that a white girl would be more at risk of rape in LA in such surroundings, where white "non-latinos" are a minority (they constitute about 1/3rd) and, comparetively, rape and violent crimes in generel occur at peaking rates (I believe 1/10 rape occurs in Los Angeles). And from that, which I'm sure Mel inherently believes like most/many non-black people, it's almost pop-cultural to perpetuate the notion that black people in particular are more likely to committ an act of physical violence toward a white man, which is only generally true if you specifiy what you state; that the former are more likely in comparison to committ such acts against white people than white people are vice versa. I think rape/sexual assault it fluctates around 50-100 times more likely.

[Jono]

Well, twice their representation in the overall population, but that's only because rapes happen overwhelmingly to women and not men. You don't compare them to the overall population, you only compare them to the female part of other ethnic groups.

Right. Well going by -06 statistics, about 8,5% of all (194,000/228,200,000) white people were raped, 4,5 of afro-americans (18,000/37,600,000) were raped that year. And if about 90%, using Fiona's figure, of all rape victims were female, we'd have 7,6% of all raped white americans being female and 4,3% of all raped afro-americans were female.

[Fiona]

First of all, I didn't exclude the self-identifying hispanics who identify as white, according to the wiki demographics under "White alone" (which includes white hispanics and latinos) they are 75%, not 85%.

It specifically states it does not. Nor was your figure for the total population correct. I really don't know what else to say.

ETA: No you are quite correct: I misunderstood that. My apologies

[Fiona]

Fiona,


See, you failed to account in any way for the surroundings, or the specifics of the situation that Jono had set up and instead tried to apply general statistics on rape.


Fair enough. Perhaps there is something special about the surroundings that I did not grasp. What is it?

[Architect]

Right. Well going by -06 statistics, about 8,5% of all (194,000/228,200,000) white people were raped, 4,5 of afro-americans (18,000/37,600,000) were raped that year. And if about 90%, using Fiona's figure, of all rape victims were female, we'd have 7,6% of all raped white americans being female and 4,3% of all raped afro-americans were female.

Your % rates seem to be out by several orders of magintude. By my reckoning, for example. 194,000/228,200,000 is actually 0.085%.

[Fiona]

Right. Well going by -06 statistics, about 8,5% of all (194,000/228,200,000) white people were raped, 4,5 of afro-americans (18,000/37,600,000) were raped that year. And if about 90%, using Fiona's figure, of all rape victims were female, we'd have 7,6% of all raped white americans being female and 4,3% of all raped afro-americans were female.


Where does this come from?

The US department of Justice reports the total number of forcible rapes in 2006 as 92757.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_07.html

Nationmaster gives the latest figure (not sure what year that is) as 95136

ETA: clearly not the latest figure: seems to refer to 2002: that fits with the general decline reported elsewhere

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us-united-states/cri-crime

Rape figures are notoriously unreliable but this is a far cry from the 212000 you seem to be citing. Am I misunderstanding you?

[dudalb]

I note that instead of out and out denial, Gibson's PR person is using the "unable to comment about the tapes at this time" routine.
I say within a week the tapes will be all over the Internet, and it will not look good for Mel.
And I refuse to takes sides in this because they both come off as pretty scummy. I feel sorry for the kid with parents like that, though.

[Lucian]

RadarOnline (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/07/world-exclusive-mel-gibson-caught-tape-admitting-he-hit-oksana-you-fking-deserved) has a new report claiming that Gibson admitted hitting Grigorieva (and that she "*********** deserved it"). They also say that it wasn't she who leaked the tapes to them.

[dudalb]

RadarOnline (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/07/world-exclusive-mel-gibson-caught-tape-admitting-he-hit-oksana-you-fking-deserved) has a new report claiming that Gibson admitted hitting Grigorieva (and that she "*********** deserved it"). They also say that it wasn't she who leaked the tapes to them.

If the hitting is true then I have to say that Gibson is by far the biggest A Hole of the two.
Sad that in real life William Wallace turns out to be more Like Longshanks.

[Jono]

Your % rates seem to be out by several orders of magintude. By my reckoning, for example. 194,000/228,200,000 is actually 0.085%.

Yes you're correct, wrote it down 'sloppily' and the decimal should be twice removed to the left, indeed.

[Jono]

It specifically states it does not. Nor was your figure for the total population correct. I really don't know what else to say.

ETA: No you are quite correct: I misunderstood that. My apologies

No worries, I often make such blunders (as you can see with the percentages in the above post, I just did). Me thinks I should not calcuate and be playing online games at the same time.

[Jono]

Nationmaster gives the latest figure (not sure what year that is) as 95136

ETA: clearly not the latest figure: seems to refer to 2002: that fits with the general decline reported elsewhere

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us-united-states/cri-crime

Rape figures are notoriously unreliable but this is a far cry from the 212000 you seem to be citing. Am I misunderstanding you?

I used the stats in the wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States) on Rape (it uses this report (http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus0602.pdf) as source, table 42 I think), where I got 194,000 (white victims)/228,200,000(total white population) and 18,000(black victims)/37,600,000(total black population). Naturally, it fluctates, but I recall from past years the discrepencies tend to be more or less concistent.

[Lurker]

Fair enough. Perhaps there is something special about the surroundings that I did not grasp. What is it?

Well, it is not equivalent to the total population of the US, demographically speaking.

[Fiona]

Well, it is not equivalent to the total population of the US, demographically speaking.


That is true: but it does not have a particularly high rate of rape compared to other big cities, so far as I can see.

[dudalb]

The first tape leaked today.
Pathetic.Just Pathetic.
Frankly, neither one comes out like a parent of the year candidate. It's a case of which is the scummist of two scum buckets.
And now we hear that charges of physical assault against Gibson might be pending.

[Jono]

That is true: but it does not have a particularly high rate of rape compared to other big cities, so far as I can see.

Well, and while this is not exclusive to Los Angeles, I believe California tends to lead the rape and violent crime statistics by numbers. Then again it is the largest state by numbers isn't it? Rape'wise and state'wise, I remember Florida, Michigan, Illinois and Texas to be on comparable levels or worse, proportionately.

[quarky]

Just heard that Mel's agent has dropped him.

[Arrow]

Mel's agency did dump him for the use of the "N-word". Makes one wonder if the William Morris agency will now take action against other clients?

http://michellemalkin.com/2010/07/10/selective-n-word-outrage-william-morris-agency-dumps-mel-gibson/

Selective ‘N-Word’ Outrage: William Morris Agency Dumps Mel Gibson
By Doug Powers • July 10, 2010 02:28 PM
**Written by guest-blogger Doug Powers
Let me get this straight — the William Morris Agency has reportedly dropped Mel Gibson as a client because he used the “N-word” in an unhinged privately recorded rant, but William Morris continues to represent the likes of P. Diddy, Kanye West, Snoop Dogg, Mary J. Blige, Eminem, 50 Cent, and many more, who broadcast the same awful word to millions — daily, unabashedly and continually?
Gotta love Hollywood.
Take up a career in Hip-Hop, Mel — the WMA will bring you back on board in a heartbeat.
**Written by guest-blogger Doug Powers
Twitter @ThePowersThatBe

[Philosaur]

Mel's agency did dump him for the use of the "N-word". Makes one wonder if the William Morris agency will now take action against other clients?

http://michellemalkin.com/2010/07/10/selective-n-word-outrage-william-morris-agency-dumps-mel-gibson/

Selective ‘N-Word’ Outrage: William Morris Agency Dumps Mel Gibson
By Doug Powers • July 10, 2010 02:28 PM
**Written by guest-blogger Doug Powers
Let me get this straight — the William Morris Agency has reportedly dropped Mel Gibson as a client because he used the “N-word” in an unhinged privately recorded rant, but William Morris continues to represent the likes of P. Diddy, Kanye West, Snoop Dogg, Mary J. Blige, Eminem, 50 Cent, and many more, who broadcast the same awful word to millions — daily, unabashedly and continually?
Gotta love Hollywood.
Take up a career in Hip-Hop, Mel — the WMA will bring you back on board in a heartbeat.
**Written by guest-blogger Doug Powers
Twitter @ThePowersThatBe

Non-Black Person Befuddled at Use of N-Word by Blacks! Film at 11.

Snooze.

It's not a moral question on the part of the agent, it's a good business decision.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Non-Black Person Befuddled at Use of N-Word by Blacks! Film at 11.

Snooze.

It's not a moral question on the part of the agent, it's a good business decision.

Indeed, one could claim that the words "moral" and "agent" can never appear in the same sentence unless negation is involved. ;)

[Travis]

Well, he certainly shouldn't have hit her. That is not right.


What a douche.

[ZirconBlue]

Non-Black Person Befuddled at Use of N-Word by Blacks! Film at 11.

Snooze.

It's not a moral question on the part of the agent, it's a good business decision.


Eminem isn't black.

Good point, though.

[Philosaur]

Eminem isn't black.

Good point, though.

All cats are gray in the dark.

Wait, does that apply here?

[dudalb]

The problem Gibson is facing is the same one that Lohan, his main competitiion for "Scrwed up Celeb of the Year" is facing. He has become so notorious for his off screen antics that people find it difficult to forget them when they see him on screen.
It is much less of problem when you are behind the camera, and I would not be surprised if Gibson concnetrates more on his career as a director.

[pgwenthold]

The problem Gibson is facing is the same one that Lohan, his main competitiion for "Scrwed up Celeb of the Year" is facing. He has become so notorious for his off screen antics that people find it difficult to forget them when they see him on screen.
It is much less of problem when you are behind the camera, and I would not be surprised if Gibson concnetrates more on his career as a director.

Yeah, he should go back to making religious movies.

[grunion]

Wow, this conversation (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/07/exclusive-new-audio-mel-gibson-admits-hitting-oksana-threatens-kill-her-listen-it) is really beyond sanity. A violent misogynist rant that just goes on and on past the point where most insane people would have stopped.

[ryanebelhar]

Eminem isn't black.

Good point, though.

Eminem doesn't use that word either.

[ZirconBlue]

Eminem doesn't use that word either.

Well, OK, then.

[dudalb]

Its' gone from being about Racism to being about Assault and Death Threats.
Nice going, Mel,nice going.

[Roadtoad]

If I were getting death threats, I'd be taping the conversation, too, particularly if I'd already gotten smacked around.

This assclown has just demonstrated why he doesn't deserve any respect. Forget her, think about this: You are responsible for your own behavior. And this is how he acts in a high stress situation? News flash: Raising children is an even higher stress situation.

See ya, Mel.

[applecorped]

I'm not saying she's a golddigger, but she ain't messing with no broke bloke. (cracked maybe).

[sadhatter]

So, um anyone want to jump on mel's side still , with the new tirade out there? Anyone still think he is the victim in this?

Or can we all agree his is a racist violent knob that has a sense of entitlement because of his fame?

[Travis]

Holy ***! A bat to the head!


No wonder she was taping the conversations.

Momma might not be so great but at least she's not a psychopath.

[Darat]

So, um anyone want to jump on mel's side still , with the new tirade out there? Anyone still think he is the victim in this?

Or can we all agree his is a racist violent knob that has a sense of entitlement because of his fame?

Well it could be that that drove him to gain fame. :)

[Soapy Sam]

Am I to understand this thread is about things two hot headed, divorcing, ex-lovers said to one another over what each might reasonably have expected to be a private phone ?

[Vortigern99]

Wow, this conversation (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/07/exclusive-new-audio-mel-gibson-admits-hitting-oksana-threatens-kill-her-listen-it) is really beyond sanity. A violent misogynist rant that just goes on and on past the point where most insane people would have stopped.

Well, that tears it. I didn't listen to the audio because I don't like torture, but the transcript of key passages provided in that article amount to Mel Gibson openly admitting assault and battery on his wife while she was holding their infant daughter in her hands.

Never mind his "racist rant"; he knocked out his wife's front teeth, endangered his own baby in doing so, threatened to kill and bury his wife "in a rose garden", threatened to hit her with a bat, threatened to burn down her (and his) house.

Never mind his Oscars and his hugely successful bloody Jesus movie. His career is over.

[dudalb]

I'm not saying she's a golddigger, but she ain't messing with no broke bloke. (cracked maybe).

Oh, Oksana is a golddigger, all right. But that does not excuse assault and death threats...except in Mel's world, and the world of 16 year old males with an overdose of macho, who seem to be the most militant in supporting Mel on the Internet.
It possible to have a low opinion of Oksana (I do) but still think that Gibson is a total psycho who needs help, fast.

[sadhatter]

Am I to understand this thread is about things two hot headed, divorcing, ex-lovers said to one another over what each might reasonably have expected to be a private phone ?

No actually, it is about an admittedly violent toward women racist, who was finally caught admitting to beating the crap out of his wife, and uttering very clear death threats.

How else would she possibly have proven to anyone that he was saying these things ( not to mention beating the hell out of her.) without recording them?

He thought no one was looking is not a valid excuse for his violent actions, or his threats. Screw the racisim, the man admitted clearly that he beat the crap out of her. And threatened, clearly to kill her, going as far as to state that he is capable of it.

If you put her not telling him he was recorded , even in the same ballpark, heck even in the same sport, as him beating her and threatening to kill her , i don't really think the conversation can progress. The principal of clean hands comes into play here, if he was doing nothing illegal, just being a jerk i would side with you. Or if he was not outright admitting to illegal actions, again i would side with you. But this is the only way she could have proven these things were happening, of course one would only utter this type of crap in private, no one is going to willingly do something illegal on camera, or tape recording man.

[iknownothing]

How else would she possibly have proven to anyone that he was saying these things ( not to mention beating the hell out of her.) without recording them?

Especially when even with the proof of his threats available for everyone, some people still minimize it and dismiss her as a gold digger. (Was this part of her plot to get his money all along? Wow, she's devious.) How much worse would it be if she had nothing but her word?

[sadhatter]

Oh, Oksana is a golddigger, all right. But that does not excuse assault and death threats...except in Mel's world, and the world of 16 year old males with an overdose of macho, who seem to be the most militant in supporting Mel on the Internet.
It possible to have a low opinion of Oksana (I do) but still think that Gibson is a total psycho who needs help, fast.

She sucks, but if that gives one legal rights to beat and threaten then i am going to be taking a trip to sylvia browne's house in the near future.

Seriously if you could beat anyone that sucked hospitals would have lines out the door like a twilight premier. Nothing really, other than self defense ( or defense of someone else) excuses violence, Mel has no possible way to be defended at this point that has an ounce of logic behind it.

[iknownothing]

Seriously if you could beat anyone that sucked hospitals would have lines out the door like a twilight premier.

Nominated.

[sadhatter]

Especially when even with the proof of his threats available for everyone, some people still minimize it and dismiss her as a gold digger. (Was this part of her plot to get his money all along? Wow, she's devious.) How much worse would it be if she had nothing but her word?

I mean what next, are we going to get a tape with Mel beating the crap out of her on it, that gets dismissed because mel didn't know there was a camera where he was doing it?

Maybe he will beat her in the courtroom, but he will still be the victim, because no one told him there was a camera there.

Bullies avoid doing things when authority is around, a very common piece of knowledge. To try and defend them by saying " she wasn't following the rules." is trolling at best, idol worship somewhere in the middle, and flat out support of violence against women at worst.

[Vortigern99]

Yeah, my first wife used to record our arguments hoping to prove that I was some kind of abuser. She got some yelling -- boy, did we know how to yell at each other! -- but nothing incriminating.

I feel to this day that she was entirely within her rights to record me without my knowledge. If I had hit her or admitted to having hit her on tape, that would have been my fault, my error, and she could have used it to build a divorce case or prosecute me for assault.

But nothing like that ever happened, so all she was left with was some tapes of a couple yelling at each other. :rolleyes:

In this case, it's Gibson's fault, his error for admitting to past crimes (including child endangerment) and for making threats of death, violence and burial against his wife.

[sadhatter]

Yeah, my first wife used to record our arguments hoping to prove that I was some kind of abuser. She got some yelling -- boy, did we know how to yell at each other! -- but nothing incriminating.

I feel to this day that she was entirely within her rights to record me without my knowledge. If I had hit her or admitted to having hit her on tape, that would have been my fault, my error, and she could have used it to build a divorce case or prosecute me for assault.

But nothing like that ever happened, so all she was left with was some tapes of a couple yelling at each other. :rolleyes:

In this case, it's Gibson's fault, his error for admitting to past crimes (including child endangerment) and for making threats of death, violence and burial against his wife.

And that is the thing, if this was just gibson being a jerk, so what. Some people suck. But it is evidence of a crime, plain and simple. Saying she is at fault for illegally tape recording him makes about as much sense as saying the police should be arrested for stealing people's drugs. Or someone should be arrested for theft if they take away an attackers knife and run.

I always hold with the theory, don't say anything you wouldn't want recorded. To me if your feeling bad about something you said being made known, you should have used better judgment and not said it.

[sadhatter]

As a bit of an addendum to my previous statement.

At one point i was on a forum, and i had suspected a person had faked their beliefs in order to get on the mod team, and screw around. Now i received several private messages that confirmed this. Now i let this person ramble on, and eventually posted the messages.

It was the same basic situation. A portion ( no where near a majority.) supported the fact that i had shown the evidence that the mod was simply abusing power. But a fairly large amount of people were angry that i had the audacity to post " private " content.

Privacy ends when someone is breaking rules ( in the case of a forum or website) or laws ( in the real world.). It is a fine line, but when there is no other way to prove someone is breaking a law, recording, or displaying information that they think is private becomes the only way to prove one's case.

[dudalb]

I love the "it is Mel's Private Life and His Won Business" excuse. Since when was drunk driving (which is what Got Gibson in such trouble in the first place a couple of years ago) and assualt "private business"?

[Philosaur]

As a bit of an addendum to my previous statement.

At one point i was on a forum, and i had suspected a person had faked their beliefs in order to get on the mod team, and screw around. Now i received several private messages that confirmed this. Now i let this person ramble on, and eventually posted the messages.

It was the same basic situation. A portion ( no where near a majority.) supported the fact that i had shown the evidence that the mod was simply abusing power. But a fairly large amount of people were angry that i had the audacity to post " private " content.

Privacy ends when someone is breaking rules ( in the case of a forum or website) or laws ( in the real world.). It is a fine line, but when there is no other way to prove someone is breaking a law, recording, or displaying information that they think is private becomes the only way to prove one's case.

I think this is due to the fact that you're posting on an internet forum, where the influence of the EFF and other civil liberties groups have been strongest. No one wants to look like a toady for Big Brother, so they err on the side of liberty. The problem is when people forget that one person's liberty ends where another's begins.

[sadhatter]

I love the "it is Mel's Private Life and His Won Business" excuse. Since when was drunk driving (which is what Got Gibson in such trouble in the first place a couple of years ago) and assualt "private business"?

Depends on where your from, in small towns ( like where i am) it is common still to think that anything between a man and a woman is their business alone. Regardless of illegality or harm being done.

And heck living in a city with one of he biggest drunk driving rates in canada ( i think we are still in the top 3.) some people honestly still think that cops are just being a-holes enforcing that law.

We are the friggen deep south of canada.

[George152]

If you want to know why he's like that look up his family history and the secret is in his fathers 'history'

[Trigood]

She says she didn't leak them and you don't have any evidence that she did.
Besides which, I wouldn't blame her if she did. I would have. It may have saved her life.

I firmly believe that Nicole Simpson might be alive today if the technology existed then that exists now. OJ had some stellar rants that, if released on the intertubes, would have made him an a priori suspect in case she died violently.

At the very least, he probably would have been convicted.

[grunion]

Or can we all agree his is a racist violent knob that has a sense of entitlement because of his fame?The world (or at least parts of it) are filled with racist, violent knobs who never got famous. The fact that he is a millionaire has-been actor has no bearing on his psychosis, much as his attorney and publicity team may spin it that way. He blamed it on his alcoholism last time (see video in which he sees the "incident" as a blessing from God), this time it will be some other "disease" because of all the pressure he's under or some megalomania complex or some such rot. FDfUhlBgfoU

[Nursefoxfire]

And what's up with Whoopi?

"I know Mel, and I know he's not a racist," Whoopi on 'The View' on Monday, seeming both earnest and cautious to weigh in. "I have had a long friendship with Mel. You can say he's being a bonehead, but I can't sit and say that he's a racist having spent time with him in my house with my kids. I don't like what he's done, make no mistake."

I wonder if she still thinks of him as a lovable 'bonehead' after hearing the death threats he allegedly made.

[quarky]

I predict that Mel will have a dramatic come-back.
Much as I find his behavior repugnant, there is a touch of grace and honesty left in him.
He has certainly been run through the ringer of public humiliation.

Perhaps he will star in a movie wherein he is the anti-hero; gets the crap beat out of him, etc. Maybe he will even direct the movie.
Perhaps there is redemption?


Or,

Am I a hippy?

[Nursefoxfire]

I predict that Mel will have a dramatic come-back.
Much as I find his behavior repugnant, there is a touch of grace and honesty left in him.
He has certainly been run through the ringer of public humiliation.

Perhaps he will star in a movie wherein he is the anti-hero; gets the crap beat out of him, etc. Maybe he will even direct the movie.
Perhaps there is redemption?


Or,

Am I a hippy?

If he does, this will be the biggest act of contrition/comeback Hollywood has ever seen (and no, I did no research on that). Hugh Grant, Robert Downey Jr...pfft...amateurs!

[grunion]

If he does, this will be the biggest act of contrition/comeback Hollywood has ever seen (and no, I did no research on that). Hugh Grant, Robert Downey Jr...pfft...amateurs!Yep, Mel Gibson, OJ Simpson and Robert Blake are about to sign a major studio deal for a kids' action movie directed by Roman Polanski and music by Phil Spector.

[sadhatter]

And what's up with Whoopi?



I wonder if she still thinks of him as a lovable 'bonehead' after hearing the death threats he allegedly made.

I used to have a friend who was a dyed in the wool racist. Know what he did when meeting black friends of mine? He was nice.

Racists may be racists but a good majority of them realize they have to keep it under wraps in the real world. There is a difference between talking about the pack of n-words raping your wife, and saying it to the face of another human being who may react very poorly to the information.

[applecorped]

And what's up with Whoopi?



I wonder if she still thinks of him as a lovable 'bonehead' after hearing the death threats he allegedly made.

Didn't Whoopi also think that Polanski didn't comit rape rape?

[Trigood]

Yep, Mel Gibson, OJ Simpson and Robert Blake are about to sign a major studio deal for a kids' action movie directed by Roman Polanski and music by Phil Spector.
Okay this deserves to be nominated. Golden. :D

[Trigood]

Didn't Whoopi also think that Polanski didn't comit rape rape?
Whoopi has different definitions of all the major felonies in her Whoopi-Guide-to-the-Stars. She's so glad they include her in their parties that they can do no wrong.

Assault, if you're a star, must be on videotape. Rape doesn't count if you're a famous movie director and the girl is just a 13-year-old snotty-nosed nobody. These rules an more can be found in Whoopi-Goldbergs-Guidebook-to-the-Stars. Buy it at your local bookstore.

[TragicMonkey]

Whoopi Goldberg was never more sensible and coherent than when she was pretending to be a magic alien bartender on Star Trek while wearing a hat shaped like a toilet. That was the least silly she's ever been.

[applecorped]

Assault, if you're a star, must be on videotape.

R.Kelly?

[Redtail]

R.Kelly?
That wadn't rape! He gave that girl a golden shower!
Shoot... I wish I had a golden shower! [/grandad]

[Pardalis]

It looks like an anger management issue. From the tapes he looks like he's hyperventilating.

[quarky]

Yep, Mel Gibson, OJ Simpson and Robert Blake are about to sign a major studio deal for a kids' action movie directed by Roman Polanski and music by Phil Spector.

That's perfect. Can a zombie be worked in?

[MattusMaximus]

If I were getting death threats, I'd be taping the conversation, too, particularly if I'd already gotten smacked around.

This assclown has just demonstrated why he doesn't deserve any respect. Forget her, think about this: You are responsible for your own behavior. And this is how he acts in a high stress situation? News flash: Raising children is an even higher stress situation.

See ya, Mel.

This.

Mel admitted to bashing her around - breaking her teeth, I think it was. If I were in that situation, with a crazed partner who was likely double my weight and waaay stronger than me, knocking me around while I was holding my kid, I'd say by that time the gloves are off. Of course, this doesn't speak to the issue of whether or not Oksana was the source of the leaked tapes - but that's not relevant to my point.

In my opinion, Mel's lucky a couple of guys named "Guido" and "Moose" didn't take him for a ride and bust his kneecaps with a sledgehammer. Such an undertaking isn't that expensive if you know the right people, and I wouldn't have blamed Oksana if she'd contacted such individuals for just this purpose.

Full disclosure: I have a sister who was the victim of such domestic abuse, so I tend to take a dim view of "men" who pull this sort of crap. In my view, all the Mel-fans here attempting to defend him need to grab a clue and get real :mad:

[MattusMaximus]

That's perfect. Can a zombie be worked in?

I'll only pay money to watch the film if all those pricks die while the zombies eat them alive. Otherwise, what's the point?

[MattusMaximus]

It looks like an anger management issue. From the tapes he looks like he's hyperventilating.

Listening to his frothing rant, I couldn't help but wish - ever so slightly - that he'd just have a heart attack and get it over with.

[quarky]

I'll only pay money to watch the film if all those pricks die while the zombies eat them alive. Otherwise, what's the point?

Wouldn't they become zombies then?
Or am I mixing it up with vampires?

Btw, do zombies ever eat other zombies?
(I have much to learn.)

[LukeB]

Btw, do zombies ever eat other zombies?
(I have much to learn.)
No, zombies are not cannibals.
Dr. Millard Rausch on the subject: "The normal question, the first question is always; are these cannibals? No, they are not cannibals. Cannibalism in the true sense of the word implies an interspecies activity. These creatures cannot be considered human. They prey on humans. They do not prey on each other, that's the difference. They attack and they feed only on warm human flesh."

[blobru]

Wouldn't they become zombies then?
Or am I mixing it up with vampires?

It's been a while since my last horror movie marathon, but I think it goes:
If a vampire bites a zombie, it comes back as a mummy.
If a zombie bites a vampire, it comes back as frankenstein's monster.
If either bites O J Simpson, he comes back as Elroy "Crazy Legs" Hirsch.
If either bites Robert Blake, he comes back as Burt Reynolds' mustache in Smokey and the Bandit.
If either bites Mel Gibson, he comes back as Jesus, knocks up Mary Magdalene, and punches her teeth out.
Don't quote me on that, though.

Btw, do zombies ever eat other zombies?
(I have much to learn.)

Only for thanksgiving and bar mitzvahs.

[grunion]

That's perfect. Can a zombie be worked in?I think Tom Cruises' film career is the zombie - keeps coming back from the dead to eat our brains.

Come to think of it, maybe a little "auditing" is exactly what Melvin needs. It's those N-grams that are making him be such a meanie.

[quarky]

It's been a while since my last horror movie marathon, but I think it goes:
If a vampire bites a zombie, it comes back as a mummy.
If a zombie bites a vampire, it comes back as frankenstein's monster.
If either bites O J Simpson, he comes back as Elroy "Crazy Legs" Hirsch.
If either bites Robert Blake, he comes back as Burt Reynolds' mustache in Smokey and the Bandit.
If either bites Mel Gibson, he comes back as Jesus, knocks up Mary Magdalene, and punches her teeth out.
Don't quote me on that, though.



Only for thanksgiving and bar mitzvahs.


But what causes Phil Spector?
Can a wall of sound keep zombies out?

[Lurker]

No, zombies are not cannibals.
Dr. Millard Rausch on the subject: "The normal question, the first question is always; are these cannibals? No, they are not cannibals. Cannibalism in the true sense of the word implies an interspecies activity. These creatures cannot be considered human. They prey on humans. They do not prey on each other, that's the difference. They attack and they feed only on warm human flesh."

Oh no you didn't! You quoted famous Zombologist Dr. Millard Rausch. That is checkmate, my friends. Check Freaking Mate!

[quarky]

I'm trying to work my way back to Mel, but first this:

If a zombie isn't considered to be human, is it possible for a cow to become a zombie cow?
Or a dog?
Or even a big-foot?

What if Mel Gibson has become a zombie?
Does a zombie deserve some empathy?
Or does a zombie become a zombie through some fault of their own?

[grunion]

I'm trying to work my way back to Mel, but first this:

If a zombie isn't considered to be human, is it possible for a cow to become a zombie cow?
Or a dog?
Or even a big-foot?

What if Mel Gibson has become a zombie?
Does a zombie deserve some empathy?
Or does a zombie become a zombie through some fault of their own?Yes, all creatures can become zombies. It's unclear whether they will only crave the brains of their own species, or if any brains will do.

Empathy, as in, sharing one's emotions and feelings? Um, I don't think zombies have that.

[Ixion]

And what's up with Whoopi?



I wonder if she still thinks of him as a lovable 'bonehead' after hearing the death threats he allegedly made.

Didn't Whoopi also think that Polanski didn't comit rape rape?

Whoopi has different definitions of all the major felonies in her Whoopi-Guide-to-the-Stars. She's so glad they include her in their parties that they can do no wrong.

Assault, if you're a star, must be on videotape. Rape doesn't count if you're a famous movie director and the girl is just a 13-year-old snotty-nosed nobody. These rules an more can be found in Whoopi-Goldbergs-Guidebook-to-the-Stars. Buy it at your local bookstore.

Whoopi also supported Michael Vick's dog fighting in a round-a-bout way. She back-peddled and said she didn't support it, but that was "part of his cultural upbringing" suggesting Vick couldn't help himself. If that is the case, what about Mel's upbringing?

[MattusMaximus]

What if Mel Gibson has become a zombie?

What do you mean "if"? :rolleyes:

[blobru]

But what causes Phil Spector?

Burt Reynolds' mustache in Smokey in the Bandit was Phil Spector.

Can a wall of sound keep zombies out?

Temporarily, if you tack sounding boards across the windows.

[dudalb]

Whoopi also supported Michael Vick's dog fighting in a round-a-bout way. She back-peddled and said she didn't support it, but that was "part of his cultural upbringing" suggesting Vick couldn't help himself. If that is the case, what about Mel's upbringing?

Whoopi seems to be supporting every Celeb A-Hole who gets themselves in trouble.
SHe is coming off like a conservative parody of a "bleeding heart Liberal".

[dudalb]

Yep, Mel Gibson, OJ Simpson and Robert Blake are about to sign a major studio deal for a kids' action movie directed by Roman Polanski and music by Phil Spector.

News Flash: Lindsay Lohan has just been added to the cast.

[quarky]

Yes, all creatures can become zombies. It's unclear whether they will only crave the brains of their own species, or if any brains will do.

Empathy, as in, sharing one's emotions and feelings? Um, I don't think zombies have that.

I didn't make my point well. Its not about zombies having empathy, its about non-zombies having empathy towards the plight and fate of zombie-hood.

Or,

Are zombies victims?
Or did they sign some sort of pact with the devil?

[applecorped]

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=11174758

"The tapes, which some reports claim may have been altered, are seen as crucial evidence. Celebrity website RadarOnline on Thursday released a fifth recording available online, in which a panting Gibson again delivers a string of expletives at Grigorieva."

Huh? Hadn't heard that one before?

[applecorped]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/mel-gibson-tapes-tampered-11169063

[applecorped]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/15/mel-gibsons-oksana-rants-_n_647168.html

"Sources tell TMZ ... Mel Gibson's lawyers claim to have hard evidence the tapes Oksana Grigorieva secretly recorded have been tampered with and edited, which, if true, would make them inadmissible in a court of law."

[grunion]

I didn't make my point well. Its not about zombies having empathy, its about non-zombies having empathy towards the plight and fate of zombie-hood.

Or,

Are zombies victims?
Or did they sign some sort of pact with the devil?Yes, I understood your question in the first place.One can't empathize with something lacking emotions. One might feel sad while crushing its skull with a 2X4 but I wouldn't call it "empathy."

And any pact signed by an undead isn't worth the paper it's written on. Believe me, I dealt with a real estate agent once who was a total zombie.

[dudalb]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/15/mel-gibsons-oksana-rants-_n_647168.html

"Sources tell TMZ ... Mel Gibson's lawyers claim to have hard evidence the tapes Oksana Grigorieva secretly recorded have been tampered with and edited, which, if true, would make them inadmissible in a court of law."

THere admissibility was always questionable anyway. This case is being tried in the court of public opinion anyway.
If the tapes were edited to just include the juicy bits,but what Gibson said has not been tampered with, it will not help Mel much in the court of public opinion. All it will do is put Oksana on the same level as Mel.

[Nursefoxfire]

THere admissibility was always questionable anyway. This case is being tried in the court of public opinion anyway.
If the tapes were edited to just include the juicy bits,but what Gibson said has not been tampered with, it will not help Mel much in the court of public opinion. All it will do is put Oksana on the same level as Mel.

I was watching some news clip the other day where they had an expert on who listened to the tapes released by Radaronline, who definitively stated that they haven't been tampered with.

He also stressed that there's a HUGE difference between "editing" a tape and "tampering" with it. He said the sections were long enough and unbroken enough that the gist of the meaning was evident, and that the sound levels and modulation (I don't remember the technical terms he used) proved to him that this was actually as stated: one very angry man shouting down a phone line to a much calmer woman ( calmer because she knew she was taping him, perhaps?).

In other words, sections may have been removed (edited), but there was no evidence that multiple sound clips were patched together to make Mel say anything different than what he actually said.

[MikeMangum]

Whoopi seems to be supporting every Celeb A-Hole who gets themselves in trouble.
SHe is coming off like a conservative parody of a "bleeding heart Liberal".

Yes. Every (non artiste, hoi polloi) person who supports the Tea Party movement is inherently racist, according to Whoopi. Mel Gibson explicitly and specifically using racial epithets on multiple occasions? Not racist, according to Whoopi.

Any artist who does something wrong should be forgiven due to being an artist, assuming they are talented enough to be a member of the select artistic few. Roman Polanski? Not "rape-rape", according to Whoopi.

[dudalb]

Yes. Every (non artiste, hoi polloi) person who supports the Tea Party movement is inherently racist, according to Whoopi. Mel Gibson explicitly and specifically using racial epithets on multiple occasions? Not racist, according to Whoopi.

Any artist who does something wrong should be forgiven due to being an artist, assuming they are talented enough to be a member of the select artistic few. Roman Polanski? Not "rape-rape", according to Whoopi.

Whoopi is rapidly becoming the New Rosie O Donell on "THe View".

New joke making the rounds:
What do Gibson and Hitler have in common:
A.They are both Anti Semitic and
B.Both found their downfall in Russia......

[quarky]

We could 'feel' for Frankenstein's monster; feel for King Kong; feel for the Wolfman..especially the teenage one played by Little Joe Cartwright...

But zombies? We can't care about them, almost by definition?

If that's the case, I predict Mel's next movie will star him, as a zombie on meth or crack or both. He won't go down easy, but the fans will all be waiting for the gruesome end. He will go down. Sammy Davis Jr., back from the dead, or time traveling, will do the deed. He will force Mel to eat his own brain.

(I really need to call my agent.)

[Roma]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/15/mel-gibsons-oksana-rants-_n_647168.html

"Sources tell TMZ ... Mel Gibson's lawyers claim to have hard evidence the tapes Oksana Grigorieva secretly recorded have been tampered with and edited, which, if true, would make them inadmissible in a court of law."

Well I don't care if nine tenths of the purportedly "edited" tapes have Mel reciting bible verses and singing lullabies, he still has to be held accountable for the one tenth of the tapes that include him confessing to a felony assault while she was holding newborn baby, and also his death threat.

Of course she may have possibly edited out anything she said that "provoked" him, I don't care if she danced on his head he has no right to verbally abuse or threaten anyone, not her or anyone , it is a cime.

[grunion]

We could 'feel' for Frankenstein's monster; feel for King Kong; feel for the Wolfman..especially the teenage one played by Little Joe Cartwright...

But zombies? We can't care about them, almost by definition?

If that's the case, I predict Mel's next movie will star him, as a zombie on meth or crack or both. He won't go down easy, but the fans will all be waiting for the gruesome end. He will go down. Sammy Davis Jr., back from the dead, or time traveling, will do the deed. He will force Mel to eat his own brain.

(I really need to call my agent.)You can care about zombies all you want. You just can't empathize with them. Just like you can care about that rock in your garden, your dad's torque wrench, or that mole on your girlfriend's cheek, but you can't empathize with them because THEY DON'T HAVE EMOTIONS. Their "feelings" consists of Braaaains and that's it.

[MattusMaximus]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/15/mel-gibsons-oksana-rants-_n_647168.html

"Sources tell TMZ ... Mel Gibson's lawyers claim to have hard evidence the tapes Oksana Grigorieva secretly recorded have been tampered with and edited, which, if true, would make them inadmissible in a court of law."

Interesting...

:popcorn1

[Roma]

Interesting...

:popcorn1

Did you miss my post just a couple posts above yours ?

[Morrigan]

But zombies? We can't care about them, almost by definition?

Watch Day of the Dead. If you don't care about Bub... you have no soul.

[Bill Thompson]

What if he is just bipolar?

If that is the case, people who are exploiting him are the ones who should really be ashamed.

[quarky]

You can care about zombies all you want. You just can't empathize with them. Just like you can care about that rock in your garden, your dad's torque wrench, or that mole on your girlfriend's cheek, but you can't empathize with them because THEY DON'T HAVE EMOTIONS. Their "feelings" consists of Braaaains and that's it.


Spooky that you mention my dad's torque-wrench...

I left it out in the rain last night, and I felt sorry for the suffering of that wrench.

I can empathize with inanimate objects. Its probably a disease, with meds and all...but:

Zombies are a bit more than inanimate objects, aren't they?

Wasn't one of them that cute girl that worked at the 7-11?
The one that was always so nice to you?

Wait until we find out how horribly abused Mel was as a child!
It will up his rating by 27 points.

[PhreePhly]

I was watching some news clip the other day where they had an expert on who listened to the tapes released by Radaronline, who definitively stated that they haven't been tampered with.

He also stressed that there's a HUGE difference between "editing" a tape and "tampering" with it. He said the sections were long enough and unbroken enough that the gist of the meaning was evident, and that the sound levels and modulation (I don't remember the technical terms he used) proved to him that this was actually as stated: one very angry man shouting down a phone line to a much calmer woman ( calmer because she knew she was taping him, perhaps?).

In other words, sections may have been removed (edited), but there was no evidence that multiple sound clips were patched together to make Mel say anything different than what he actually said.

The problem I'm having with this is if she did not inform Mel she was recording the conversation, she broke the law in recording these tapes. I'm questioning why the DA hasn't filed charges against her.

IANAL, but was involved in a civil case as a witness. Someone on our side even had a taped phone call of the otherside requesting we not perform a certain task. (We were being sued for negligence, and not performing this particular task was a major case point).

Not only was the conversation inadmissible, but the guy that recorded it got charges filed against him. They were reduced greatly later, but the point was that even though they clearly absolved us of negligence, as they were recorded illegally, they were of no use.

However, it is very possible that the moment the custody battle started, there is a record in the courts that she informed Mel that she is recording every conversation between them. That should be enough to allow the tapes to be use in the custody battle.

Please not that I am in no way supporting Mel in any of this. He is a pig and if this whole issue leads to him disappering from the film world, then it was all worth it. I'm just curious about the law and how this all works.

[Neally]

The problem I'm having with this is if she did not inform Mel she was recording the conversation, she broke the law in recording these tapes. What law? Are these state or fed laws? What about when the fed wiretaps?

[quadraginta]

What law? Are these state or fed laws? What about when the fed wiretaps?


State laws vary. California is a "two (all) party consent" state. All parties to a conversation must provide informed consent. Other states only require the consent of one involved party. Many variations on this theme can apply. Interstate phone calls can be even more problematic. Fed law is another discussion entirely. Wiretaps, be they state or federal, are warrant authorized actions, or illegal (in theory :rolleyes:).

[dudalb]

You can care about zombies all you want. You just can't empathize with them. Just like you can care about that rock in your garden, your dad's torque wrench, or that mole on your girlfriend's cheek, but you can't empathize with them because THEY DON'T HAVE EMOTIONS. Their "feelings" consists of Braaaains and that's it.

Hey, I remember the TV commentator from the Original "Dawn Of The Dead" also.

[LukeB]

blah

[LukeB]

They're nothing but pure motarised instinct.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajcKkw29Jyo

[Roma]

State laws vary. California is a "two (all) party consent" state. All parties to a conversation must provide informed consent. Other states only require the consent of one involved party. Many variations on this theme can apply. Interstate phone calls can be even more problematic. Fed law is another discussion entirely. Wiretaps, be they state or federal, are warrant authorized actions, or illegal (in theory :rolleyes:).

Not against the law if she was being threatened.
She had a restraining order at the time of that phone call.
People who are in fear of their lives or are being threatened do not have to get any informed consent from the person who is threatening them.
Falls under the "terrorist threat" exclusion.

[Bill Thompson]

I have heard bipolar people throw the N word arond when they are having a manic episode and then when they are well they don't remember it. Someone being manic is a lot like when someone is on speed. I know. It is a family member I am talking about. When they are well, they are sweet, smart and kind and, of course, not racist.

Since Mel Gibson was panting and out of breath on the phone. I suspect he was manic and the phone conversation was contrived and the girlfriend is a the real monster in this story. She is taking advantage of him. She is no loving partner. And, oddly enough, perhaps Mel's rage is justified.

[quixotecoyote]

Zsthank you ductor. Now vat do you schtink avout his mudder?

[Bill Thompson]

What is the public opinion?
Is it for or against Mel?
If it is against Mel, it says alot for the stupidity of public opinon and our rush to judgement.

[quadraginta]

Not against the law if she was being threatened.
She had a restraining order at the time of that phone call.
People who are in fear of their lives or are being threatened do not have to get any informed consent from the person who is threatening them.
Falls under the "terrorist threat" exclusion.


Yes. Or perhaps, maybe.

I wasn't trying to give Neally a comprehensive treatise, just a rough breakdown.

The admissibility of these particular recordings is, as I understand, still under review, so even that aspect is not straightforward. Their release to the public after having been placed under seal by the judge is unfortunate. I hope that doesn't affect the issue.

[applecorped]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1295658/Mel-Gibson-leaves-States-selling-mansion-cut-price.html

"He has told friends that he will move back to Australia - where he grew up after moving from America when he was 12 - with his ex-wife Robyn, who still supports him.
‘Robyn has never seen a violent side to him.

‘She has persuaded him that he needs to get away from Hollywood and find peace on his ranch and she will go with him along with some of the children."

[quadraginta]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1295658/Mel-Gibson-leaves-States-selling-mansion-cut-price.html

"He has told friends that he will move back to Australia - where he grew up after moving from America when he was 12 - with his ex-wife Robyn, who still supports him.
‘Robyn has never seen a violent side to him.

‘She has persuaded him that he needs to get away from Hollywood and find peace on his ranch and she will go with him along with some of the children."





"Hi!

" Um ... Dad?

"Look, are you using my old room for anything right now?"

"..."

"Um ... no.

"No. Not really. No reason in particular for asking. Just curious."

[Normal Dude]

I have heard bipolar people throw the N word arond when they are having a manic episode and then when they are well they don't remember it. Someone being manic is a lot like when someone is on speed. I know. It is a family member I am talking about. When they are well, they are sweet, smart and kind and, of course, not racist.

Since Mel Gibson was panting and out of breath on the phone. I suspect he was manic and the phone conversation was contrived and the girlfriend is a the real monster in this story. She is taking advantage of him. She is no loving partner. And, oddly enough, perhaps Mel's rage is justified.

:eye-poppi

[quarky]

Maybe he could remake the Jesus movie, except he'd be on the cross, getting whipped by Jews, blacks, old girlfriends and such. No stuntmen. Real blood.

He's sitting on a goldmine of redemption comeback.

[blobru]

Maybe he could remake the Jesus movie, except he'd be on the cross, getting whipped by Jews, blacks, old girlfriends and such. No stuntmen. Real blood.

He's sitting on a goldmine of redemption comeback.


I wonder if that's why the gospels are so inconsistent: they had to be pieced together from trial leaks (jesus does come across as pretty bipolar).

[Skeptic Ginger]

Geese what's wrong with some people?

Mel Gibson's defense: conservative bloggers defend actor after rant against ex Oksana Grigorieva (http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2010/07/15/2010-07-15_mel_gibsons_defense_conservative_bloggers_defen d_actor_after_rant_against_ex_oks.html)

Then there was some woman on the news this morning (sorry channel surfing and I'm not sure which channel, it was a blonde woman, could have been on CNN Headline News) who was defending poor Mel as the victim of that evil Oksana who supposedly set him up.:rolleyes:

[cgaduck]

And this was in People online


Will the leaked tapes purportedly of Mel and Oksana be admissible in court?
"In general, it's illegal to tape someone without their knowledge but it's sometimes allowed in domestic violence situations," says L.A. criminal defense attorney Steve Sitkoff. "But the law in that regard isn't clear cut; there's lots of gray area. If the tapes are deemed illegal, they won't exist to a jury. The motive of the taping appears suspect; Oksana is extremely calm and appears to be provoking him. And if Mel was under the influence while making his threats, that would make it even harder to prove criminal intent."

Are the tapes authentic? Could there have been parts edited out?
"I wouldn't be surprised at all if the tapes were altered in some way, but that doesn't mean they aren't authentic," says Dallas-based forensic tape analyst Herbert Joe. "It's all up to the judge to determine the [overall] trustworthiness of the tapes on the whole."

[sadhatter]

What is the public opinion?
Is it for or against Mel?
If it is against Mel, it says alot for the stupidity of public opinon and our rush to judgement.

Yeah how stupid of us to call a person who admits to breaking his significant other's teeth a violent douche.

How stupid of us to have a lowered opinion of him after threatening to kill the mother of his child.

Your attempt to stir the pot is not working.

[grunion]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1295658/Mel-Gibson-leaves-States-selling-mansion-cut-price.html

"He has told friends that he will move back to Australia - where he grew up after moving from America when he was 12 - with his ex-wife Robyn, who still supports him.
‘Robyn has never seen a violent side to him.

‘She has persuaded him that he needs to get away from Hollywood and find peace on his ranch and she will go with him along with some of the children."




Sounds like the plot for one of Gibson's early directorial efforts, The Man Without A Face. Misunderstood man with mysterious past and rumors of sexual misconduct retreats to solitary life until young boy reawakens his passions.

[TragicMonkey]

Sounds like the plot for one of Gibson's early directorial efforts, The Man Without A Face. Misunderstood man with mysterious past and rumors of sexual misconduct retreats to solitary life until young boy reawakens his passions.

Uh, a young boy reawakens the passions of a man with a mysterious past of rumored sexual misconduct? If that's the sort of movie he makes, maybe Australia won't let him back in.

[sadhatter]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1295658/Mel-Gibson-leaves-States-selling-mansion-cut-price.html

"He has told friends that he will move back to Australia - where he grew up after moving from America when he was 12 - with his ex-wife Robyn, who still supports him.
‘Robyn has never seen a violent side to him.

‘She has persuaded him that he needs to get away from Hollywood and find peace on his ranch and she will go with him along with some of the children."





Something about that does not make sense.

" My husband has never been violent, but he needs a break from hollywood because......?"

The real story is she probably really does love him, and the more he was in hollywood the worse he became. She feels it is hollywood ruining him and wants to remove him.

[Mycroft]

What is the public opinion?
Is it for or against Mel?
If it is against Mel, it says alot for the stupidity of public opinon and our rush to judgement.

Who do you think is for Mel? I don't care how he may have been baited or provoked, that show was just awful and unmanly.

I don't think the issue is who is for or against Gibson, but to what degree people are also against Oksana Grigorieva. But however she may have capitalized on Gibson's faults, it doesn't make his behavior any less shameful.

[Roma]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1295658/Mel-Gibson-leaves-States-selling-mansion-cut-price.html

"He has told friends that he will move back to Australia - where he grew up after moving from America when he was 12 - with his ex-wife Robyn, who still supports him.
‘Robyn has never seen a violent side to him.

‘She has persuaded him that he needs to get away from Hollywood and find peace on his ranch and she will go with him along with some of the children."





Oh I remember back in 1990 after my old boyfriend had beaten me, yet again, and blamed me for causing him to lose his temper: "I'm sorry, but if you hadn't....blah blah blah", I phoned his ex-wife, the woman he was married to for 15 years and asked her if he had ever beaten her. She was quite sure that he had never laid a hand on her ever and was surprised by my question.
There is another thing that my old boyfriend had in common with Mel Gibson, he was also an alcoholic. I understand that a life time of heavy drinking could be the cause of these two guys mental problems because it can cause their brains to actually shrink and their personalities change. My guess is Mel has alcoholic dementia that is causing his rage and not bipolar disorder.

As for Oksana, well it is clearly her fault that she got her teeth broken, she should have dropped the new born baby and protected her face with her hands. Or maybe we could blame the new born baby for getting in the way. Whatever it is we know that it is certainly not Mel's fault.

[wasapi]

For me, this has nothing to do with celebrity, money or fame. It is unrelated to her motivation, unrelated to who leaked what, when or why. For me this is about the purest form of uglieness, about a man with such an ugly, dark, empty soul that it is evident it has been thinnly shrouded for a long time. The shroud had been slipping, and now it's gone, leaving the world to see the man that was behind the curtain all along.

It remains to be seen if there will be enough forgiveness for Gibson to continue. The very right-wing conservative Baldwin said that he just needs people to love him. In my opinion he doesn't deserve love. But maybe that's just me. Back in the days when there was no media as we have now, Walt Whitman remained loved as a poet, and literature classes in schools were kind towards him, though he was an unabashed pedophile. But we've come a long way. I don't believe Gibson's legacy will be anywhere near as kind.

[dudalb]

Who do you think is for Mel? I don't care how he may have been baited or provoked, that show was just awful and unmanly.

I don't think the issue is who is for or against Gibson, but to what degree people are also against Oksana Grigorieva. But however she may have capitalized on Gibson's faults, it doesn't make his behavior any less shameful.

You don't have to takes sides, you can think they are both Alpha Hotels, as I do.
Though, from evidence ,Mel is a much bigger Alpha Hotel then Oksana.

BTW Gibson is denying that "Moving Back To Oz" rumors. Good news For Austrialians, who probably don't want him back.

[dudalb]

For me, this has nothing to do with celebrity, money or fame. It is unrelated to her motivation, unrelated to who leaked what, when or why. For me this is about the purest form of uglieness, about a man with such an ugly, dark, empty soul that it is evident it has been thinnly shrouded for a long time. The shroud had been slipping, and now it's gone, leaving the world to see the man that was behind the curtain all along.

It remains to be seen if there will be enough forgiveness for Gibson to continue. The very right-wing conservative Baldwin said that he just needs people to love him. In my opinion he doesn't deserve love. But maybe that's just me. Back in the days when there was no media as we have now, Walt Whitman remained loved as a poet, and literature classes in schools were kind towards him, though he was an unabashed pedophile. But we've come a long way. I don't believe Gibson's legacy will be anywhere near as kind.

Let's keep politics out of it.
If you want I could come up with a list of Celebs with Left Wing Political views who are not exactly saints....Charlie Sheen comes to mind.

[Jekyll's Guest]

I listened to one or two of the tapes, and I came away thinking "that is a man who is dangerously mentally ill."

Before hearing the tapes I assumed that he was just a racist and a thug, but the way he talks, and the strange noises he makes...those aren't even people noises.

He needs psychiatric intervention, and not the BS Hollywood rehab kind, I mean men with a straight jacket and butterfly nets.

[quarky]

Can we work Lindsey Lohan into this thread somehow?

I'd heard that Mel dressed her up as Sammy Davis Jr. (black and Jewish), and Breach of Rule 2 content removed. forced Lindsey to preform my way.
(Or is this just some silly rumor?)

[blobru]

According to Lindsay Lohan's twitter page (unconfirmed), it was "Puff, the Magic Dragon".

[Blue Monk]

All I can say is I really picked a bad time to invest in a line of 'Mel Gibson Charm Schools'.

[TragicMonkey]

I listened to one or two of the tapes, and I came away thinking "that is a man who is dangerously mentally ill."

Before hearing the tapes I assumed that he was just a racist and a thug, but the way he talks, and the strange noises he makes...those aren't even people noises.

He needs psychiatric intervention, and not the BS Hollywood rehab kind, I mean men with a straight jacket and butterfly nets.

Yeah, it's sad when you think to yourself "Scientology would be a step up for this guy".

[iknownothing]

Oksana is extremely calm and appears to be provoking him

Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't. If she stays calm -- that must mean she planned it all and is provoking him. Yell back -- I'm sure she would also be provoking him.

Note: I am not saying I think she's great. Just that her calmness does not make me think she's manipulating things, or that he is blameless for his own behavior.

[iknownothing]

Since Mel Gibson was panting and out of breath on the phone. I suspect he was manic and the phone conversation was contrived and the girlfriend is a the real monster in this story. She is taking advantage of him. She is no loving partner. And, oddly enough, perhaps Mel's rage is justified.

What is the public opinion?
Is it for or against Mel?
If it is against Mel, it says alot for the stupidity of public opinon and our rush to judgement.

LOL, no rush to judgment in how you formed your opinion, huh? You simply deduced the most logical explanation: this prominent celebrity who no one (including his side) has implied or publicly suspected of being bipolar, is probably bipolar. So, the girlfriend must have manipulated things, and she's a monster. And the poor guy is not to blame at all for his own actions. Of course!

It couldn't be that he's just a jerk.

And if people hold him responsible for his own behavior, that "says alot for the stupidity of public opinion."

By the way, was the girlfriend also responsible for his anti-Semitic rant during his DUI a few years ago?

[Roadtoad]

Gotta go along with Roma on this one, as well as Mycroft. (Glad to see you here, Dude.)

I'm reminded of a friend of my sister's, Sabrina. Beautiful woman, smart as hell, and tough as they come. She married a guy who came home one night, smashed, and decided he didn't like what Sabrina made for dinner. He smacked her around for it, then went into their bedroom and passed out on the bed.

Sabrina tied him up in the bedsheets, took a baseball bat, and proceeded to administer a very serious attitude adjustment. She then packed her bags, and left him. I don't even think he contested the divorce.

I like women like that.

I really think if anyone deserved to lose some teeth, it was Mel.

[MattusMaximus]

As for Oksana, well it is clearly her fault that she got her teeth broken, she should have dropped the new born baby and protected her face with her hands. Or maybe we could blame the new born baby for getting in the way. Whatever it is we know that it is certainly not Mel's fault.

Yup, the ol' "blame the victim" card, though I would have said that it's Oksana's fault for hitting Mel's fist with her face. The crazy chick assaulted Mel's fist with her face - what kind of a lunatic does that?!!

Seriously, calling Mel Gibson a douchebag is an insult... to douchebags. He needs help of the professional psychiatric variety.

[Roadtoad]

Seriously, calling Mel Gibson a douchebag is an insult... to douchebags. He needs help of the professional psychiatric variety.

No, Mel needs a winch bar to the chops, along with a visit from a few dudes with CDLs. I wouldn't mind nailing his sorry ass with my steel toed boots.

[Jekyll's Guest]

I'm reminded of a friend of my sister's, Sabrina. Beautiful woman, smart as hell, and tough as they come. She married a guy who came home one night, smashed, and decided he didn't like what Sabrina made for dinner. He smacked her around for it, then went into their bedroom and passed out on the bed.

Sabrina tied him up in the bedsheets, took a baseball bat, and proceeded to administer a very serious attitude adjustment. She then packed her bags, and left him. I don't even think he contested the divorce.

I like women like that.

Have you talked to anyone about these sociopathic tendencies?

He smacked her about, so she tied him up and beat him with a bat, and we're supposed to cheer or something?

[Jekyll's Guest]

No, Mel needs a winch bar to the chops, along with a visit from a few dudes with CDLs. I wouldn't mind nailing his sorry ass with my steel toed boots.

Seriously, get help, your posts are terrifying.

[Roadtoad]

Have you talked to anyone about these sociopathic tendencies?

He smacked her about, so she tied him up and beat him with a bat, and we're supposed to cheer or something?

I know women who have done worse. Including one who nearly beheaded the guy who killed her child. He damned well deserved it.

Seriously, get help, your posts are terrifying.

Sorry. I calls 'em as I sees 'em. I'd have never dreamed of hitting my wife: First, I love her, and second, her dad would have knocked my teeth out.

[Jekyll's Guest]

I know women who have done worse. Including one who nearly beheaded the guy who killed her child. He damned well deserved it.



Sorry. I calls 'em as I sees 'em. I'd have never dreamed of hitting my wife: First, I love her, and second, her dad would have knocked my teeth out.

Look, either you're an internet tough guy (best case scenario), or you're advocating vicious (possibly fatal) vigilante style justice. Neither is very good.

We may all harbor dark fantasies about Charles Bronso-esque revenge sprees, but when you start bragging about them and tossing high fives, reevaluate, bud. Reevaluate.

[Jekyll's Guest]

I know women who have done worse. Including one who nearly beheaded the guy who killed her child. He damned well deserved it.

Also, this is flat out murder.

It doesn't matter if he deserved it, we have these pesky things called laws.

[Roadtoad]

Look, either you're an internet tough guy (best case scenario), or you're advocating vicious (possibly fatal) vigilante style justice. Neither is very good.

We may all harbor dark fantasies about Charles Bronso-esque revenge sprees, but when you start bragging about them and tossing high fives, reevaluate, bud. Reevaluate.

I'm neither. I'm the guy who watched his biological father beat the **** out of his mother as a three year old. Frequently.

I'm sorry, but sometimes, the bad guys are just vicious enough that the only way to get through to them that their behavior is damned wrong is to be every bit as vicious. It might not make them lovable, or even likable, (my biological father backstabbed me on several occasions, and it cost me seriously), but it might force them to re-evaluate the use of violence against those who can't fight back. And this is especially true when law enforcement and the courts won't take action.

Just so you know: My oldest son just got a serious reduction in my former daughter-in-laws custodial rights. Her boyfriend was beating my grandkids, and she was allowing it. A grown man in his 30's knocking the hell out of a three year old. Oh, yeah, I'd like to unleash a little vigilante justice on his sorry ass, but I don't have to. The courts took action. (Finally.)

[plumjam]

Sabrina tied him up in the bedsheets, took a baseball bat, and proceeded to administer a very serious attitude adjustment.

What was her nickname after that? Babe Ruthless? :p

[Roadtoad]

What was her nickname after that? Babe Ruthless? :p

Boo. :p

[Jekyll's Guest]

I'm neither. I'm the guy who watched his biological father beat the **** out of his mother as a three year old. Frequently.

I'm sorry, but sometimes, the bad guys are just vicious enough that the only way to get through to them that their behavior is damned wrong is to be every bit as vicious. It might not make them lovable, or even likable, (my biological father backstabbed me on several occasions, and it cost me seriously), but it might force them to re-evaluate the use of violence against those who can't fight back. And this is especially true when law enforcement and the courts won't take action.

Just so you know: My oldest son just got a serious reduction in my former daughter-in-laws custodial rights. Her boyfriend was beating my grandkids, and she was allowing it. A grown man in his 30's knocking the hell out of a three year old. Oh, yeah, I'd like to unleash a little vigilante justice on his sorry ass, but I don't have to. The courts took action. (Finally.)

The reasons for you feeling as you do are understandable, they just happen to also be reprehensible.

Vigilante justice bypasses the sorry joke that is the criminal justice system, great stuff. Except when it goes wrong.

Like when you beat the wrong guy to death, or when you put your daughter's bf in a wheelchair for 'raping' her, only to find out later that she lied because she was scared of your reaction to her having sex.

Add to that the fact that vigilante justice is only good when you're the one doing it, because you're 'morally righteous', unlike that guy over there! He beat a guy for doing WHAT? Outrageous!


Society can understand vigilantism, it can even turn a blind eye to it, but it must never laud it.

[quarky]

Christ, we are a sorry lot.

I'm fresh out of any 'love-bunny' re joiners.

I'm done killing; that's all i know.

[qayak]

Gotta go along with Roma on this one, as well as Mycroft. (Glad to see you here, Dude.)

I'm reminded of a friend of my sister's, Sabrina. Beautiful woman, smart as hell, and tough as they come. She married a guy who came home one night, smashed, and decided he didn't like what Sabrina made for dinner. He smacked her around for it, then went into their bedroom and passed out on the bed.

Sabrina tied him up in the bedsheets, took a baseball bat, and proceeded to administer a very serious attitude adjustment. She then packed her bags, and left him. I don't even think he contested the divorce.

I like women like that.

I really think if anyone deserved to lose some teeth, it was Mel.

Me too! I think Tiger Woods' wife got it right. He put her at risk for some life altering disease and her response was to **** him up with a golf club, take him for 3/4 of a billion dollars and, hopefully, divorce his sorry ass. Now that is a role model for young women!

Edited, breach of Rule 10. Please do not mask curse words, or otherwise attempt to avoid the auto-censor.

[qayak]

Society can understand vigilantism, it can even turn a blind eye to it, but it must never laud it.

What Sabrina did wasn't vigilantism, it was self defence. She had to make sure that useless POS couldn't come after her, or at least that he wouldn't want to. :D

[Jekyll's Guest]

Yes, it's hilarious until it's someone you like getting assaulted by someone you don't, then it's bad.

That's the thing with beating people based on personal morality, other people's morals will differ from yours.

It's why we have laws. No-one gets quite what they want, but (in theory) you're protected from people who think a blunt instrument is an argument winner.

I'm not even going to get in to how people hoot and cheer jilted wives gluing a penis or attacking with a knife, but if a guy goes after his cheating wife he should be locked up.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Just so you know: My oldest son just got a serious reduction in my former daughter-in-laws custodial rights. Her boyfriend was beating my grandkids, and she was allowing it. A grown man in his 30's knocking the hell out of a three year old. Oh, yeah, I'd like to unleash a little vigilante justice on his sorry ass, but I don't have to. The courts took action. (Finally.)

That's horrible but, in your former daughter in law's defense, it is probably blaming the wrong person to say that she "allowed it". Her boyfriend was the one abusing them and probably abusing her as well (or WOULD have abused her, had she tried to stop it.) She just had no choice. It probably hurt her immensely to see what he was doing to her children but she was powerless.

Plus, there's the whole psychology of abuse that the victim experiences in a situation like that that makes her go along with it. Identifying with the abuser and being compelled to side with him, defend him and protect him and so on. So it isn't just about physical threats and violence and fear, it's about a kind of psychological brainwashing.

[qayak]

Yes, it's hilarious until it's someone you like getting assaulted by someone you don't, then it's bad.

That's the thing with beating people based on personal morality, other people's morals will differ from yours.

It's why we have laws. No-one gets quite what they want, but (in theory) you're protected from people who think a blunt instrument is an argument winner.

I'm not even going to get in to how people hoot and cheer jilted wives gluing a penis or attacking with a knife, but if a guy goes after his cheating wife he should be locked up.

Ideally, I would agree with you. However, laws are written for reasonable people and some people just aren't reasonable. If they were, they wouldn't be beating their spouse.

Laws often don't protect anyone. It's not like you can hold one up as a sheied when your boyfriend, who outweighs you by 80 pounds, decides to lay a beating on you for some perceive transgression.

[wasapi]

Let's keep politics out of it.
If you want I could come up with a list of Celebs with Left Wing Political views who are not exactly saints....Charlie Sheen comes to mind.

Hhmmm . . . I didn't realize that I had brought politics into it. Much could be said about Gibson's politic's but I didn't. So to be clear, anyone could have said, "All Mel needs is love" and it would have been just as absurd.

[Fiona]

That's the thing with beating people based on personal morality, other people's morals will differ from yours.

It's why we have laws. No-one gets quite what they want, but (in theory) you're protected from people who think a blunt instrument is an argument winner.


Yes and no. I agree that the rule of law is profoundly important, and that vigilante action is ultimately damaging to us all. But there is another element, which is arguably missing from your analysis.

As a society we decide which rights are to be protected, and we make laws which reflect the consensus we can agree on. In the best case that is a peaceful process: those who are excluded make their case and reasonable people listen to that case and they adopt laws which extend the rights to minority groups where those are missing.

There are times when this process does not work well: it does not work when an artificial difference is manufactured or perceived in order to justify different treatment of some group. This is easily seen in the case of women's suffrage: or slavery: or the disenfranchisement of the poor. There are many examples.

In those cases the "morality" of the society was fine: the exclusion rested on a wriggle which allowed those with power to distance themselves from those without. It would be nice to think that this changes when the "outgroup" organises and makes a case which is persuasive in terms of the avowed principles of the society: and that is indeed a necessary condition. But as I look at the history of such movements it is not sufficient. Too many people are short on empathy: short on principles: long on laziness and personal comfort and advantage.

That kind of law is changed partly on the basis of some conception of justice but it is generally necessary to accompany that with some kind of threat: all that does is change the cost/benefit analysis somewhat: but that is required. It can be done by "passive resistance" as epitomied by Ghandi: that worked by makiing the mismatch between avowed values and actual practice uncomfortably apparent: and most folk are decent and will grasp that mismatch if it is forced on their attention. Thus the need for a case to be made. Very admirable if you can do that without violence: but it is only successful if other things conspire with it: wider social change, including a change in the economic/power benefit of retaining the status quo:I am not sure that ghandi's movement could have worked at another period: the effects of the war on the british attitudes to the "other" was important, amongst other things

For other groups at other times there is always the case: and the enforcement of the case. Each movement which seeks to participate in a culture which excludes them includes a majority which wishes to do so by peaceful means: and a minority which gets frustrated with the slow or non-existent pace of change. That minority will take direct action of one kind or another. And if the peaceful process is not producing a response then more will decided that direct action is necessary. The existent power will resist that and call it terrorism or criminality: and they will be right to call it that because that is what it is. But it is also effective, if it is sustained, because the cost of retaining the power gets higher. The reporting of the violence also raises the profile of the grievance and it forces more of the decent people to awareness and to thought.

Many would argue that this is not applicable to the position of women: and it is certainly true that some progress has been made through peaceful means. But it is also true that the law is not effective in protecting a great many women: and that violence against women is not quite seen in the same way as violence againt men. We can argue about the extent that is true, and to what extent a direct action response is justified in our present circumstances. One problem in answering that question is that in some senses women do not self-identify as a group - though that has changed to some exent it remains the case: one tension within the feminist movement is the way you reconcile the wish to be seen as fully human: and the necessity to develop a separate group identity in order to achieve that. That tension exists in other movements too, and it is a bit of a double bind which is difficult to negotiate. But one of the sad truths appears to be that the characterisation of women as "other" rests in part on their general reluctance to be violent. It is almost funny: the proof you are serious is willingness to fight when it comes to it: and the requirement to fight a bigger and stronger enemy, and to accept martyrdom, is what passes for a membership card to the human race: without it the theory that you are content is sustainable. And it is that attitude which forces the minorities to take direct action: then they cut up rough when the lesson is learned.

But the point is that if the law does not effectively protect the citizen by reason of membership of a group seen as "other" then one must make it worthwhile for those with power to re-think that stance. And one must also protect oneself, because for so long as you do not the majority will conclude that you are ok with how things are: born to be slaves or mothers or whatever: no need to think much about it if there is no evidence that the theory of difference is not correct. A few fighting back can be portrayed as aberrant, of course: but if many do then it is direct challenge to that theory and if other factors combine to support it change may well come.

Violence focusses the mind of the individual and the society. That is not desirable but it happens to be a fact. It is not inescapable: it is not the only way to achieve change: but it is a necessity when the culture will not recognise legitimate grievances because "power comes from the barrel of a gun". Like it or not many movements from the chartists to the civil rights movement show that this is true: the peaceful protest did not work by itself no matter how we like to re-write history after the event.

In the case Roadtoad described the action was not society wide: but the bloke had a theory: his theory was that he could beat up his partner with complete impunity. He has grounds for that belief: we as a society are very poor at protecting women in the context of the family so he could reasonably conclude he would get away with it. And we have a strong societal pressure against vigilante action, as you say. So his theory was she would not protect herself directly either. Such men do not assault big strong men in bars because they "see red" when provoked: funnily enough most of them manage to control themselves in those circumstances. So it is not a question of "losing it": it is a theory about the limits and entitlements of different relationships. In this case the lady demonstrated that the theory was wrong, or at least not as universally applicable as he liked to think. That is what is meant by "attitude adjustment", or, as I prefer to see it, education. He tested a hypothesis which holds true in many cases, and found it failed. But the real problem is that he had that hypothesis in the first place. And he did no make it up out of his own head: it is supported by the society we live in. And while that remains true it is not enough to characterise it as "vigilante-ism", for that is to individualise a societal problem.


I'm not even going to get in to how people hoot and cheer jilted wives gluing a penis or attacking with a knife, but if a guy goes after his cheating wife he should be locked up.

I hope that what I have said above is enough to demonstrate a difference between the two cases, though I expect it is not. It is a very common phenomenon to equate/conflate those things and to pretend that there is equality when there is not: it is perfectly possible to argue that the difference I am proposing does not exist; or is not relevant, of course. But you have to do it. It is not a given, as this part of your post suggests. Once again it is individualising a problem which is bigger than the individual. In the same way those suffragettes who broke the law were treated as common criminals by the state: and lauded as heroes by those who recognised the injustice of the position they were in. But do you really think those who broke windows for the right to vote were the same as those who broke windows for the pleasure of seeing glass break or for robbery? I dont. The actions have a context.

[applecorped]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3idce355ee2b302dc4e314dccf51febe6f

" The Hollywood Reporter has learned that after the disturbing Mel Gibson audio tapes (http://buzz.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/07/01/mel-gibson-rant-caught-tape/) became public earlier this month, Oksana Grigorieva wrote Gibson a text explaining why she'd surreptitiously recorded their conversations.

According to a source familiar with the case, Grigorieva writes in the text that the reason she recorded him was because "you broke your agreement with me."

The source says that there are additional emails that will likely be used by Gibson's attorneys to prove that Grigorieva attempted to use the audio tapes to extort money (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-mew-mel-gibson-extortion-syndicate,0,6763449.story) from Gibson. The source adds that Grigorieva was also upset about the breakup and was looking to reconcile.

The Los Angeles County sheriff's department today confirmed they are investigating Grigorieva."

[LibraryLady]

I think if it is an extortion attempt, that is a terrible thing. However, it does not mitigate the terrible things I'm hearing Gibson say in the tapes. If it is indeed Gibson speaking.

[applecorped]

It is a terrible thing. Especially for the child.

[Jonnyclueless]

I'm sure Gibson meant those things he said in the nicest way.

[ZirconBlue]

That's horrible but, in your former daughter in law's defense, it is probably blaming the wrong person to say that she "allowed it". Her boyfriend was the one abusing them and probably abusing her as well (or WOULD have abused her, had she tried to stop it.) She just had no choice. It probably hurt her immensely to see what he was doing to her children but she was powerless.


She may have felt she had no choice, or that she was powerless, but that's not actually true.

[dudalb]

I think if it is an extortion attempt, that is a terrible thing. However, it does not mitigate the terrible things I'm hearing Gibson say in the tapes. If it is indeed Gibson speaking.

That is why I did not want to jump on the Oksana bandwagon early on.
Both are pathetic excuses for Human Beings, frankly, and I agree that the kid is to be pitied with two parents like that.

[grunion]

With the whole Breitbart/Sherrod uproar I suppose it's only fair that Mel have his side heard. The court of public opinion is firmly against him, and I don't know that he will ever change that, and because of the way that the tapes were leaked, just showing that they were inadmissible isn't going to help him one whit in the public's eyes.

But if there were somehow some egregious editing of the tapes by Team Oksana that made him come out to be an abuser (instead of "merely" a racist jerk), then we've all been taken advantage of. Doubtful, but possible.

[grunion]

5bZ7dyi3Ynw

[sadhatter]

Look, either you're an internet tough guy (best case scenario), or you're advocating vicious (possibly fatal) vigilante style justice. Neither is very good.

We may all harbor dark fantasies about Charles Bronso-esque revenge sprees, but when you start bragging about them and tossing high fives, reevaluate, bud. Reevaluate.

Abusers are experts at manipulating the system in order to not get jail time. Ever met one? They know more about the law than half the lawyers out there, and they are great at instilling fear into people. No abuser picks on someone 6 inches taller and pure muscle.

Your line of logic would be great in a Utopian society , or even a society in which the pieces of crap were honest about being pieces of crap. But that is not the world we live in. We live in a world where it is actually possible to convince a woman you just kicked the **** out of that if she informs the authorities somehow things will get worse.

People hate to admit it , but sometimes violence is the answer. I find us liberals are the absolute worst for this, sometimes, seldomly , but sometimes there is nothing to do but grab a lead pipe.

Sure it makes you sound a lot better to say " i deplore violence" while i am saying knock out a few teeth.You come off as the cool headed and thinking, and i seem like a thug. But off the internet, in the real world this type of logic causes people to be victims. It gives people no recourse when someone has found ways to manipulate them and the system, and it takes the power away from the people who need it and gives it to the people who should in no way shape or form have it.

The justice system is just as flawed as vigilante justice, but simply in the opposite direction. This may be a good thing, a great thing , when it comes to thieves or vandals. ( i am sure people would beat down the kid tagging their store if they could get away with it. ). But when it comes to people who get a kick out of causing physical harm to others and manipulating the justice system, it is a crying shame.

Abusers are doing nothing more than starting a physical altercation, but doing the stupid thing and staying with the person they are in the altercation with. If someone sees this and decides to take advantage of the fact that they choose to sleep beside them, i say its no different than kicking someone in the stones during a fight. Not something i would encourage in every case, but well applied in the correct situation i would gladly cheer.

You cannot make a blanket statement that vigilante justice is a bad thing, the same way you cannot make a blanket statement that the current justice system is a good thing. They both have their pro's and con's and the real trick lies in finding when each is appropriate. It may be a 90% 10% split, but there is need for both in an imperfect world.

[Lurker]

He needs help of the professional psychiatric variety.

You know Mel really needs some help. A regular psychiatrist couldn't even help him. He needs to go to like Vienna or something. You know what I mean? He needs to get involved at the University level. Like where Freud studied and have all those people looking at him and checking up on him. That's the kind of help Mel needs. Not the once a week for eighty bucks. No. He needs a team. A team of psychiatrists working round the clock thinking about him, having conferences, observing him, like the way they did with the Elephant Man. That's what I'm talking about because that's the only way Mel is going to get better.

[LibraryLady]

You know Mel really needs some help. A regular psychiatrist couldn't even help him. He needs to go to like Vienna or something. You know what I mean? He needs to get involved at the University level. Like where Freud studied and have all those people looking at him and checking up on him. That's the kind of help Mel needs. Not the once a week for eighty bucks. No. He needs a team. A team of psychiatrists working round the clock thinking about him, having conferences, observing him, like the way they did with the Elephant Man. That's what I'm talking about because that's the only way Mel is going to get better.

Psychopathy is not curable.

[Roma]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3idce355ee2b302dc4e314dccf51febe6f

" ...
According to a source familiar with the case, Grigorieva writes in the text that the reason she recorded him was because "you broke your agreement with me."

The source says that there are additional emails that will likely be used by Gibson's attorneys to prove that Grigorieva attempted to use the audio tapes to extort money (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-mew-mel-gibson-extortion-syndicate,0,6763449.story) from Gibson. The source adds that Grigorieva was also upset about the breakup and was looking to reconcile.

The Los Angeles County sheriff's department today confirmed they are investigating Grigorieva."



Unless we can read the entire "agreement" we don't know which part of it she was referring to, for all we know it had nothing to do with money and everything to do with the custody agreement.

Women who are battered regularly go back to the men who beat them, back again and again, nothing unusual about that. Been there done that.

About time the police woke up and started investigating everything about this.