How widespread is the Truther tendency to implicate the NYFD in a 9/11 conspiracy?

[Titanic Explorer]

I saw a few Youtube clips of Alex Jones claiming he never claimed the FDNY of being 'in on it'-but insisting they 'got an order' to implode Building 7.

Jones did claim on his website just he thought at the very least the FDNY was guilty of manslaughter. I have personally encountered Truthers who thought the FDNY planted explosives in the Twn Towers and in Building 7.

Is this disgusting opinion held by most Truthers towards the FDNY and NY Port Authority ?

To claim that such HEROES as the FDNY could have been in on 9/11 is an insult unlike any other...

Have Truthers taken to harassing or threatening firemen?

I would have a very difficult time debating any Truthers face to face, as I find their views so repellant, I might be inclined to speak with my fists..

[Brainster]

It's FDNY, not NYFD. But yeah, the Truthers like to pretend they're all about the first responders, but they are happy to claim that the firefighters are protecting their pensions by not talking about 9-11 Troof. Jason Bermas did it on the fifth anniversary of 9-11 in an argument with Abby Scott.

[Titanic Explorer]

It's FDNY, not NYFD. But yeah, the Truthers like to pretend they're all about the first responders, but they are happy to claim that the firefighters are protecting their pensions by not talking about 9-11 Troof. Jason Bermas did it on the fifth anniversary of 9-11 in an argument with Abby Scott.

sorry about that

[Bell]

Every truther who claims that the Larry Silverstein's quote "and they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse" means WTC7 was demolished by explosives cannot deny they are implicating the FDNY.

[Thunder]

its impossible for WTC 7 to have been "pulled" without the help of the FDNY and NYPD.

hence, Truthers believe the FDNY and NYPD were part of the conspiracy.

[T.A.M.]

From my encounters with the truthers, I think they are forced into taking a position that "some" members of the FDNY, the "higher ups" were in on it. I am not sure if they truly believe it, but their position on CD nd WTC7 kind of forces them to take such a position.

TAM:)

[Edx]

Every truther who ever says that no one would imagine that WTC7 would collapse, or that it only had small/minor fires and small damage is implicating the FDNY, but they dont ever want to admit that.

[Thunder]

From my encounters with the truthers, I think they are forced into taking a position that "some" members of the FDNY, the "higher ups" were in on it. I am not sure if they truly believe it, but their position on CD nd WTC7 kind of forces them to take such a position.

TAM:)

um....but the higher-ups are the ones that died in the towers.

[Edx]

um....but the higher-ups are the ones that died in the towers.

Obviously not those higher ups, duh.

Truthers are almost always unspecific.

[Oystein]

...
To claim that such HEROES as the FDNY could have been in on 9/11 is an insult unlike any other...
...

An appeal to heroism should really have no place in an rational argument on a sceptic forum.

The cases of firefighters laying arson just to show off their fire fighter heroism to their flame (girl) are legion.



(Before anyone gets me wrong: I do not believe at all that even a single member of the FDNY had any foreknowledge of or even a hand in the criminal events of 9/11. Just saying that you can't logically conclude innocence from apparent heroism.)

[Walter Ego]

its impossible for WTC 7 to have been "pulled" without the help of the FDNY and NYPD.

hence, Truthers believe the FDNY and NYPD were part of the conspiracy.

Also the FDNY had foreknowledge that the building would collapse which they conveyed to the press. They had to be in on it!

Brian Williams MSNBC 9/11/01: "What we have feared all afternoon had apparently happened." :eek:

1KQA1KOKrPc

[Telltale Tom]

Its very interesting that the NYFD commander said that they had expected that building would come down by itself or it would be taken down. I guess they did not like the burning building and potential of collapse, hampering the rescue and recovery efforts on WTC 1 and 2.

So that means that if there had not been any secret quiet thermite fireproof explosives, then the NYFD may have used quite openly the noisy messy kind. Wow.! That would have been a blow to our conspiracy theory.

Or perhaps the purpose of the demoltition was simply to get safe access to WTC 1 and 2, and luckily the NYPD happened to have some quiet thermit expolsoves at hand, as they had left-overs from the WTC 1 and 2 demolition.

[Senenmut]

did any of the fireman predict the collapse of wtc 1 or 2 or 7 like this " engineer" did. the order came down from the top...the OEM (office of emergency management).

this was from a bbc special about wtc 7:

An engineer at the World Trade Center site correctly predicts that WTC Building 7 is going to collapse. Deputy Chief Peter Hayden of the New York Fire Department will later recall: “We had our special operations people set up surveying instruments to monitor, and see if there was any movement of, [WTC 7]. We were concerned of the possibility of collapse of the building. And we had a discussion with [B]one particular engineer there, and we asked him, if we allowed it to burn could we anticipate a collapse, and if so, how soon?” The engineer apparently predicts correctly that WTC 7 will collapse and also the time it will take before it comes down. As Hayden will continue: “And it turned out that he was pretty much right on the money, that he said, ‘In its current state, you have about five hours.’”

he not only predicted wtc 7 but the towers as well even though in a firefighters oral history peruggia states:

"We were always told
by everyone, the experts, that these buildings could
withstand direct hits from airplanes. That's the way
they were designed. They went through all of this
architectural stuff, way beyond the scope of my
knowledge. It was hit by an airplane. That's okay.
It's made to be hit by an airplane. I mean I think
everyone may have believed that. We were all told."


sunder knows the engineer as well:
In an Oct 15, 2008 interview with Allan Rees (following the release of the NIST WTC 7 report), Dr. Shyam Sunder (lead investigator) responded to a question about the evidence of foreknowledge of the collapse of WTC 7 by saying that they were “aware that an engineer or a technical expert or a technical advisor was providing advice to the city agencies with regard to the condition of building 7”, and that they had been hearing creaking noises and the area was cleared about 2:30 pm. He refused to name this person, and then implied it may have been more than one “advisor”.
http://www.ae911truth.org/info/39

[Telltale Tom]

At ae911truth the view of fireman is not as black and white as you describe.

We like some of the things about FDNY and dislike others. Our accusations about them being involved in the conspiracy tend to be vaque and implied, rather than direct and explicit as this gets us into less trouble and seems a better way of casting doubt about the official story. We have made the following statements at one time or other:

We think that most of the FDNY were not part of the conspiracy. But as Mr Gage said in SF, the evidence appears to implicate a few of the FDNY leaders which is why they need to be interviewed with a subpoena.

We like all the fireman who said they heard explosions. But we do not like the fact that none of them have signed our petition and we do not like the fact that they now say that these explosions were not caused by explosives. What do they know!

We like all the fireman who said that the tower was coming down. But we do not like them saying that was because they used their judgement, our implication is that they were warned by the demo team.

We find it very suspicious that no-one recognized any cutter charges or demolition debris during the clean-up.

We are very suspicious that the firemen allowed the debris to be removed before a proper fire investigation was completed. Of course we do not put that statement next to the need to do search and rescue... or that there was a big clue about the probable cause of the fire.

We believe the only reason that none of the firemen who were at ground zero have signed our petition is because they are frightened.

And we do work very closely with Firefighters for 911 Truth which includes a few firemen who nearly went to Ground Zero.

[Bell]

And we do work very closely with Firefighters for 911 Truth which includes a few firemen who nearly went to Ground Zero.

:dl:

Classic! Keep 'em coming! :D

[twinstead]

At ae911truth the view of fireman is not as black and white as you describe.

We like some of the things about FDNY and dislike others. Our accusations about them being involved in the conspiracy tend to be vaque and implied, rather than direct and explicit as this gets us into less trouble and seems a better way of casting doubt about the official story. We have made the following statements at one time or other:

We think that most of the FDNY were not part of the conspiracy. But as Mr Gage said in SF, the evidence appears to implicate a few of the FDNY leaders which is why they need to be interviewed with a subpoena.

We like all the fireman who said they heard explosions. But we do not like the fact that none of them have signed our petition and we do not like the fact that they now say that these explosions were not caused by explosives. What do they know!

We like all the fireman who said that the tower was coming down. But we do not like them saying that was because they used their judgement, our implication is that they were warned by the demo team.

We find it very suspicious that no-one recognized any cutter charges or demolition debris during the clean-up.

We are very suspicious that the firemen allowed the debris to be removed before a proper fire investigation was completed. Of course we do not put that statement next to the need to do search and rescue... or that there was a big clue about the probable cause of the fire.

We believe the only reason that none of the firemen who were at ground zero have signed our petition is because they are frightened.

And we do work very closely with Firefighters for 911 Truth which includes a few firemen who nearly went to Ground Zero.

Well maybe "WE" could actually convince somebody who can actually DO something about it, or is actually RESPECTED in the engineering and scientific community to not think you folks are full of it, because I suspect all of them believe your 'suspicions' are ill-founded.

[Woody-]

We think that most of the FDNY were not part of the conspiracy. But as Mr Gage said in SF, the evidence appears to implicate a few of the FDNY leaders which is why they need to be interviewed with a subpoena.

What makes truthers think that a subpoena is some kind of magical truth getting device. Do you actually think that someone involved with the murder of several thousand people will suddenly spill their guts just because of a subpoena?

[BigAl]

We believe the only reason that none of the firemen who were at ground zero have signed our petition is because they are frightened.



Hundreds of WTC first responders have died since 9/12/2001. If what you believe is true, what has prevented any of them from making a statement from their hospital room death bed to the press blowing the lid off the conspiracy?

Your act is getting tired.


And we do work very closely with Firefighters for 911 Truth which includes a few firemen who nearly went to Ground Zero.

That's like being a little bit pregnant.

Your "firemen" are just more idiots that won't speak in public to skeptics to demonstrate that they are who they claim they are and to explain on what facts they base their opinions. Sorry to be harsh but any one of them could prove me wrong by speaking in public to an audience of people with relevant knowledge.

[BigAl]

We like all the fireman who said they heard explosions.

You and the rest of the truth movement lie about statements of first responders. When the "Half Truth Movement" says that Fireman Joe "heard an explosion ..." and a check of the transcript shows that the ellipse served to hide "but it was just the collapse of the South tower", this is a lie on your part and an insult to fireman Joe.

Some of us know Fireman Joe.

There isn't one fireman that says they saw man-made demolition at WTC.

Lie lie lie. Much of it is lies by omission, you selectively leave out text in quotes that shows the quoted firemen don't believe or didn't see what you claim they did.

You can prove my claim for yourself by searching for the ellipses in the documents on Journal of 911 Studies. Paste this line into Google Search.
"..." site:http://www.journalof911studies.com

Today it returns 140 hits (up from 120 the first time I did this.) Some ellipses are innocent but many are lies by omission.

This exercise also proves to me that none of the papers on j911s went through any fact checking and fact checking is part of a peer review process. Claims of peer review is just one more lie on the part of the Movement that uses the word, "Truth" much too much.

[BigAl]

We believe the only reason that none of the firemen who were at ground zero have signed our petition is because they are frightened.


Do you actually know any firemen your believe to have been frightened into silence?

I know a couple that would be on you list and my life has put me in touch with countless others in the past 9 years.

I'd love to introduce you to some of them.

I'd like to know how someone put fear into thousands of eyewitness first responders spread over a couple square miles before any of them spoke to any the hundreds of reporters or spilled the beans in a cellphone call home.

[Telltale Tom]

What makes truthers think that a subpoena is some kind of magical truth getting device. Do you actually think that someone involved with the murder of several thousand people will suddenly spill their guts just because of a subpoena?

Well I am not quite sure. It depends if you believe people are more likely to lie when they are facing a murder charge than they would if they are helping an investigation, or if you believe that people will just give up and spill the beans if a new investigation happens. The ae911truth view is the latter.

[MaGZ]

I saw a few Youtube clips of Alex Jones claiming he never claimed the FDNY of being 'in on it'-but insisting they 'got an order' to implode Building 7.

Jones did claim on his website just he thought at the very least the FDNY was guilty of manslaughter. I have personally encountered Truthers who thought the FDNY planted explosives in the Twn Towers and in Building 7.

Is this disgusting opinion held by most Truthers towards the FDNY and NY Port Authority ?

To claim that such HEROES as the FDNY could have been in on 9/11 is an insult unlike any other...

Have Truthers taken to harassing or threatening firemen?

I would have a very difficult time debating any Truthers face to face, as I find their views so repellant, I might be inclined to speak with my fists..

To my knowledge no one died when the fire department imploded WTC 7 so they would not have been guilty of manslaughter.

[MaGZ]

its impossible for WTC 7 to have been "pulled" without the help of the FDNY and NYPD.


Correct, that is why the police told everyone to move back and warned everyone in the area "they are going to blow up the building."

[DGM]

To my knowledge no one died when the fire department imploded WTC 7 so they would not have been guilty of manslaughter.
So it's just conspiring to commit fraud that you accuse them of?

[MaGZ]

um....but the higher-ups are the ones that died in the towers.

Are you making a sick joke?

[MaGZ]

Also the FDNY had foreknowledge that the building would collapse which they conveyed to the press. They had to be in on it!

Brian Williams MSNBC 9/11/01: "What we have feared all afternoon had apparently happened." :eek:

1KQA1KOKrPc

Yes they knew WTC 7 would collapse. That is why they pulled it so it would be a control collapse and not fall into the Twin Tower area.

[DGM]

Yes they knew WTC 7 would collapse. That is why they pulled it so it would be a control collapse and not fall into the Twin Tower area.
And the reason they had to keep it a secret was.............?

Come on finish a thought for once.

[Edx]

Yes they knew WTC 7 would collapse. That is why they pulled it so it would be a control collapse and not fall into the Twin Tower area.

1. Why do no firefighters support that theory of yours? Were they in on it?

2. If it was a safety issue, then why as others have asked you, did they have to cover it up?

4. And who is "they"? Some super secret uber efficient and genius demolition company or what?

[Edx]

To my knowledge no one died when the fire department imploded WTC 7 so they would not have been guilty of manslaughter.

Since when do the FDNY do demolitions?

Why are they covering it up?

[Edx]

You and the rest of the truth movement lie about statements of first responders. When the "Half Truth Movement" says that Fireman Joe "heard an explosion ..." and a check of the transcript shows that the ellipse served to hide "but it was just the collapse of the South tower", this is a lie on your part and an insult to fireman Joe.

Some of us know Fireman Joe.


Isn't Tom joking though? I thought that was pretty well established :) Just read his post again and this time think "sarcasm" ;) To be fair he is the best Poe ever and should get an award.

[BigAl]

Yes they knew WTC 7 would collapse. That is why they pulled it so it would be a control collapse and not fall into the Twin Tower area.

As I recall, debris from WTC7 did fall into the same pile as WTC1 and 2.

So what, anyway?

[Bell]

To my knowledge no one died when the fire department imploded WTC 7 so they would not have been guilty of manslaughter.

Almost right. The FDNY did not implode WTC7 therefor no one has died at the hands of the FDNY.

[fess]

Yes they knew WTC 7 would collapse. That is why they pulled it so it would be a control collapse and not fall into the Twin Tower area.
Show me one fire truck that carries any equipment that could be used to "pull" a building.

[Titanic Explorer]

From my encounters with the truthers, I think they are forced into taking a position that "some" members of the FDNY, the "higher ups" were in on it. I am not sure if they truly believe it, but their position on CD nd WTC7 kind of forces them to take such a position.

TAM:)

Truthers seem to have a pathological hatred ,paranoia and distrust of all authority figures, be it polititians, the police ,firemen, or their parents.
For them to question the heroism of the FDNY says more about the character of the Truthers...

[BigAl]

Isn't Tom joking though? I thought that was pretty well established :) Just read his post again and this time think "sarcasm" ;) To be fair he is the best Poe ever and should get an award.

Maybe he joking, but when one attempts humor, it's without a safety net and the humorist can die if the audience doesn't find the act funny.

Tom's insults of all first responders fails for me.

[BigAl]

Bump for Telltale Tom. Even if you don't have the fortitude to respond, I'd appreciate a response that indicates that you've read this so that you know how at least one reader feels about your insults to first responders.

Do you actually know any firemen your believe to have been frightened into silence?

I know a couple that would be on you list and my life has put me in touch with countless others in the past 9 years.

I'd love to introduce you to some of them.

I'd like to know how someone put fear into thousands of eyewitness first responders spread over a couple square miles before any of them spoke to any the hundreds of reporters or spilled the beans in a cellphone call home.

[BigAl]

Bump for Telltale Tom. Even if you don't have the fortitude to respond, I'd appreciate a response that indicates that you've read this so that you know how at least one reader feels about your insults to first responders.


Originally Posted by Telltale Tom

We like all the fireman who said they heard explosions.

You and the rest of the truth movement lie about statements of first responders. When the "Half Truth Movement" says that Fireman Joe "heard an explosion ..." and a check of the transcript shows that the ellipse served to hide "but it was just the collapse of the South tower", this is a lie on your part and an insult to fireman Joe.

Some of us know Fireman Joe.

There isn't one fireman that says they saw man-made demolition at WTC.

Lie lie lie. Much of it is lies by omission, you selectively leave out text in quotes that shows the quoted firemen don't believe or didn't see what you claim they did.

You can prove my claim for yourself by searching for the ellipses in the documents on Journal of 911 Studies. Paste this line into Google Search.
"..." site:http://www.journalof911studies.com

Today it returns 140 hits (up from 120 the first time I did this.) Some ellipses are innocent but many are lies by omission.

This exercise also proves to me that none of the papers on j911s went through any fact checking and fact checking is part of a peer review process. Claims of peer review is just one more lie on the part of the Movement that uses the word, "Truth" much too much.

[BigAl]

Bump for Telltale Tom. Even if you don't have the fortitude to respond, I'd appreciate a response that indicates that you've read this so that you know how at least one reader feels about your insults to first responders.

Hundreds of WTC first responders have died since 9/12/2001. If what you believe is true, what has prevented any of them from making a statement from their hospital room death bed to the press blowing the lid off the conspiracy?

Your act is getting tired.



That's like being a little bit pregnant.

Your "firemen" are just more idiots that won't speak in public to skeptics to demonstrate that they are who they claim they are and to explain on what facts they base their opinions. Sorry to be harsh but any one of them could prove me wrong by speaking in public to an audience of people with relevant knowledge.

[Bell]

BigAl, calm down please. Telltale Tom is in no way insulting the FDNY. If you read his post careful you'll see that he is voicing the thoughts and opinions of A&E for 911 Truth as if he is part of this group. If anyone is insulting the first responders it's A&E for 911 Truth (brought to light by Tom in a (imho) amusing way) and every single goddamn "pull it lolol" truther (yes, that includes you, Red and Mag).

[RedIbis]

BigAl, calm down please. Telltale Tom is in no way insulting the FDNY. If you read his post careful you'll see that he is voicing the thoughts and opinions of A&E for 911 Truth as if he is part of this group. If anyone is insulting the first responders it's A&E for 911 Truth (brought to light by Tom in a (imho) amusing way) and every single goddamn "pull it lolol" truther (yes, that includes you, Red and Mag).

This place really has become a cesspool.

[funk de fino]

This place really has become a cesspool.

Says someone who said that firefighters on the ground were told by higher ups about the collapsing building!! Someone who actually believes the FDNY could be duped and setup by some unknown higher up. Someone who has said there were no discernible infernos in the WTC7 building. Someone who accuses Myers of gross negligence on zero evidence, while also saying Silverstein lied through his teeth and made out like a bandit.

Too funny.

[Edx]

Bump for Telltale Tom. Even if you don't have the fortitude to respond, I'd appreciate a response that indicates that you've read this so that you know how at least one reader feels about your insults to first responders.

BigAl you have been Poe'd, as I said :D

[fess]

This place really has become a cesspool.

Sucks to be sitting on the bottom... doesn't it?

[Mountweazel]

An appeal to heroism should really have no place in an rational argument on a sceptic forum.
Agreed.

The cases of firefighters laying arson just to show off their fire fighter heroism to their flame (girl) are legion.
Really?

[Mountweazel]

I'm a newbie here, but as I stated in my intro posting I'm an electrical engineer. I don't know anything at all about buildings, but considering all the stuff I had to learn about circuits, it always made intuitive sense to me that if the thousands of people around the world like me who had similar training in "building stuff" (a.k.a. mechanical engineers) saw what happened on 911 and thought it looked fishy, then they would have said something about it, right?

Well, interestingly enough tonight I got to test my theory without even realizing it. I was having dinner with some colleagues after work and I asked one of them, because he's game for odd conversation, if he knew anything about 911 conspiracies and what he thought about them. He said he didn't really know much about them, but didn't really consider them to be plausible on their face. Then I asked him what he thought specifically about the WTC building collapse. His reply was that if you heat steel to above 1000 degrees for an hour or longer it becomes brittle and will obviously result in instability and potentially collapse so he never saw anything weird about the WTC towers collapsing. It was only then that it dawned on me (duh I had already had a couple of brews and wasn't thinking clearly) that this colleague of mine is in fact a mechanical engineer.

Bingo.

Seriously Truthers, give it up. I respect you for your desire to learn the truth, but look no further than reputable peer-reviewed science journals. Trust us. We don't do whatever you do for a living and wouldn't expect to suddenly fall out of bed one morning and understand everything there is to know about investment banking or dentistry or whatever it is you do. So in the same way, have some confidence in the fairly obvious fact that the whole entirety of the human race isn't in on the conspiracy, and if there was really a legitimate basis for doubting the NIST report you would have plenty of professionals out there in the world going, huh?

[ElMondoHummus]

So in the same way, have some confidence in the fairly obvious fact that the whole entirety of the human race isn't in on the conspiracy, and if there was really a legitimate basis for doubting the NIST report you would have plenty of professionals out there in the world going, huh?

Oh, no... cue truthers stumbling over each other to bring forth the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth list... http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n94/elmondohummus/facepalm.gif

Please don't take this the wrong way, Mountweazel (and BTW: Welcome to the forum!), but I think I need to expand on this in order to make clear what point the argument is at nowadays. For starters, the conspiracy peddlers do in fact have a list of "professionals" that claim they see something fishy in the collapses. That in fact is what the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth group is supposed to be: A big argument to authority by listing a bunch of conspiratorially inclined people who believe that there's something suspicious about the collapses. That their arguments are either specious or refuted is another discussion, but the point is that such a list does in fact exist. So no offense, but your statement unfortunately builds right into one of their long prepared arguments, which is "What do building professionals think?".

It's always possible to find some kook somewhere. Taken at face value, the credentials of conspiratorially minded engineers can be pretty impressive. Gordon Ross - NASA engineer - is one example of this. But his credentials do not save him from being wrong:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1822297&postcount=576
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=86422
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=97584
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=137881
http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/theyoughtaknowbetter:critiquesoftheinept

Critiques against the notion of demolitions and conspiracy lies in proper evaluation of the "evidence" that conspiracy peddlers give, as well as proper knowledge of the facts of the collapses. That ultimately is where that AE911T group fails: Instead of reasonable, coherent analyses, they simply cite the conspiracy "canon" of 9/11 ("free fall", "signs of explosive 'squibs' in use", "collapsed in their own footprint", etc.). What they fail to do is actually demonstrate that any of those claims are accurate. And what many conspiracy peddlers do once they have your attention with the AE911T credentials is turn to attack the established body of knowledge rather than understand it; you can actually see that in some present threads, as well as many past threads where the NIST reports on the collapses are argued. So while you do have a point - there has most certainly been no general outcry from professional organizations, plus there's been zero legitimate academic activity on the conspiratorial proposals - that point unfortunately can get blurred by a very old argument-to-authority that the conspiracy minded have created. So ultimately, simply arguing that professionals would've spoken up by now simply travels an already well beaten route. It's always all about what a person says, not who that person is.

But please, do not take all that as a criticism of your post. Rather, it's an addition to it, posted only to inform. We of course welcome your contributions and your point of view, and would be happy to have you participate further in this forum.

[dafydd]

Isn't Tom joking though? I thought that was pretty well established :) Just read his post again and this time think "sarcasm" ;) To be fair he is the best Poe ever and should get an award.

Tom is joking.He has assumed the mantle of Bill Smith.

[dafydd]

This place really has become a cesspool.

Well if you introduce truther crap into a pool what do you expect?

[Miragememories]

Everyone produces crap.

Non-truthers revel in only producing crap.

Ah life in the sandbox.

MM

[Unsecured Coins]

Everyone produces crap

but truthers are the only ones charging for theirs

[dafydd]

Have any truthers ever gone to a New York fire station to expound this ''theory''?

[dafydd]

Everyone produces crap.

Non-truthers revel in only producing crap.

Ah life in the sandbox.

MM

Truthers produce 911 crap,we do our best to clean it up.

[sheeplesnshills]

BigAl, calm down please. Telltale Tom is in no way insulting the FDNY. If you read his post careful you'll see that he is voicing the thoughts and opinions of A&E for 911 Truth as if he is part of this group. If anyone is insulting the first responders it's A&E for 911 Truth (brought to light by Tom in a (imho) amusing way) and every single goddamn "pull it lolol" truther (yes, that includes you, Red and Mag).


another reason we need a sarcasm font...........

[sheeplesnshills]

"His reply was that if you heat steel to above 1000 degrees for an hour or longer it becomes brittle and will obviously result in instability and potentially collapse so he never saw anything weird about the WTC towers collapsing. It was only then that it dawned on me (duh I had already had a couple of brews and wasn't thinking clearly) that this colleague of mine is in fact a mechanical engineer."



Soft not brittle...........I'm a mech eng so I know these things :)
The collapses only looked weird to me until I found out how they were built.
Knowing that, collapse was not remotely surprising.

[Galileo]

I saw a few Youtube clips of Alex Jones claiming he never claimed the FDNY of being 'in on it'-but insisting they 'got an order' to implode Building 7.

Jones did claim on his website just he thought at the very least the FDNY was guilty of manslaughter. I have personally encountered Truthers who thought the FDNY planted explosives in the Twn Towers and in Building 7.

Is this disgusting opinion held by most Truthers towards the FDNY and NY Port Authority ?

To claim that such HEROES as the FDNY could have been in on 9/11 is an insult unlike any other...

Have Truthers taken to harassing or threatening firemen?

I would have a very difficult time debating any Truthers face to face, as I find their views so repellant, I might be inclined to speak with my fists..

The tendancy is widespread in the JREF nutter forum. Elsewhere it is mighty scarce.

:jaw-dropp

[dafydd]

The tendancy is widespread in the JREF nutter forum. Elsewhere it is mighty scarce.

:jaw-dropp

Does the truth movement consist entirely of the handfull of nutters that we have here?