Idiotic 'fraud' handling from credit card company

[chillzero]

So, I'm on the train on my way to work this morning, and I get a call.
When I answer it is an automated voice, telling me that it is calling from my credit card company, and wanting to verify some information about my card.

Riiiiggghhhtttt.

My credit card company regularly dump tons of information on me about fraud avoidance, and not giving out information over the phone. So I believe that they have a common sense approach to information sensitivity and confidentiality.

The voice - clearly audible to the person sitting next to me - asks me to press a button to confirm that I am <my name> and says it has information for me about fraud. Now the fact that my name is right bothers me more than a little, and I have also heard about phone scams that charge the person being called once they press buttons to accept options. There was no informaiton that enabled me to confirm that the call came from this company. There was no information given about whether I would be charged or not for the call. There was no indication that my card would be affected by my taking (or not taking) the call. It sounded like at best it would be an information call - remember not to give out your PIN, etc. At worst I suspected a phishing style scam (although I could see the number that rang me).

So, I hang up.

When I get to work I call my credit card company to notify them of this issue, and to give them the number that came up on my phone. I expect them to tell me that they are aware of this particular scam and thank me for my concern.

No.
I get bounced around a few different Indian ladies until I get one who tells me that yes, they send out automated calls to confirm that certain purchases made on my card were actually made by me. Because I did not complete the call, my card was temporarily frozen. I ask her does she not see the problem about doing this, which flies in the face of all their usual advice? She says that she will forward my complaint to the appropriate people, and then we sort out un-freezing my card.

I later find out that a colleague at work raised exactly the same complaint to the same company after getting the same call and also refusing to complete the call for the same reason - and her cards were also held over until she verified her purchases.

Other than the complaints already raised, what would people advise any further course of action should be? I was unable to get the woman I spoke to to get my number removed as a method of contacting me for fraud checking purposes, even when I explained to her why I thought this was a stupid thing for the company to do. Is it worth raising to an ombudsman, or anything? Should I make an independant complaint about this situation, and the fact that I was expected to verify private information with no way of telling a human person "please hold on until I am somewhere private / call back at xxx time"?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Unless you have hours to waste on this, I'd forget about it.

[Uncle Otto]

I've had one encounter with the security arm of the bank issuing my credit card. Someone had pulled my account number out of thin air and made a fake card. You can get everything you need off the internet apparently, right down to making the magnetic strip on the back of the card.

So then whoever it was attempted to make some purchases with it on the other side of the state. This set off flags at the bank because it was an unusual departure from my normal spending pattern, and they called me---but it was a real person, not a recording. Saved me no end of grief. They froze the card and cancelled it. They sent me a new card with a different account number three days later.

I most certainly would not have completed the call as you described it, and for all the same reasons. It's too easy to set up a scam using such a ploy. In your case I would call the security department of your issuing bank and ask that you be contacted by a real person next time something comes up. Then if it ever happens again, hang up and you call them using the number on the back of the card, to verify that they are legitimate and that there is a real problem with your account.

Also, check to see if your bank offers this type of protection as a standard feature on your account. Some do not I think. My card is with Chase Bank, and it's an included service for their card-holders.

[sadhatter]

I have to ask this.

Your card gets used and no one calls you, you find yourself going to pay for a meal, or other expense and your card limit is reached. You then have the awkward situation ( especially in the case of a meal) of having to find another method of payment, and then who knows how long in trying to rectify the issue, and get your money back.

Would you prefer this option?

I can understand your reluctance to give out the information on the first call, but now that you know what the appropriate number is, and that it is indeed not a scam, are you not armed with the information necessary to, in the future make a sound logical judgment as to the validity of the person/machine calling? Not to mention if your credit card company is similar to any i have worked for , this number would have been in the anti scam information they sent you.

The reason it is an automated system versus a person is exactly the reason we are talking about, fraud. Within the phone service industry it is common to only give as few human beings access to credit card numbers or other personal information as possible. Humans can steal your credit card number and machines cannot ( unless they were designed for this purpose. ) giving it to as many of the things that cannot steal the information, is simply common sense.

And as far as scams that charge you for pressing a button,, this is more of a myth of the phone service industry than anything. If someone has your credit card information and numbers relevant to make you make a charge, then why , if they were doing this for nefarious reasons are they going to have to ask your permission? And furthermore, if they are asking your permission without telling you the charge, how are they going to back up they did tell you what it was for to an investigator that is trained to find audio defects and detect forgery ( legitimate companies use third party verification systems. Which are an outside company that is paid to confirm people are making purchases. These records are kept indefinitely because people stating they did not agree to a service when they dislike it is very common. Without these tapes full service fees, regardless of time , up until the statute of limitations, have to be refunded. )?

So i applaud your skepticism in not taking the first call, armed with this knowledge you can now know that if your seeing that number, your getting a call from a legitimate source and it is being done for your benefit. And if your worried about people hearing this call in a public place, do not answer it. If you do not, chances are they will call back within 24 hours if not earlier.

[Miss_Kitt]

I could not find anything on Snopes, but I'm not aware of any way that simply pressing a key will put you on the hook for charges. Simply confirming your name would not be enough under any state law that I am aware of.

I have gotten phone calls like this, both mechanical and human, and it's standard practice by most card issuers to monitor for 'non-typical' usage--either location or type of merchant--to reduce fraud exposure. The company I used to work for made fraud-alert reports available to our client credit unions and small banks for just this purpose. I suspect large card issuers use Indian labor and/or automatic programs, and small banks/CUs use their staff members to call.

It may be that after you confirmed your identity, you would then have been connected to a human being; or, simply asked to confirm whether or not you made a purchase at X merchant on Y date. Again, without you giving any information other than a one-digit reply, I do not know any way a scammer could use that to charge you.

As other posters have indicated, you should have a fraud concern contact number from your issuer; if you don't feel safe replying to a robo-call, you should call that number and talk to them after declining to participate (as you did).

Just like your e-mail, your cellphone should be treated with care when dealing with an unknown party who contacts you. When in doubt, intiate contact yourself using what you know to be a valid number (as you did). Looks to me like you handled this right.

Regards, MK

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I have had similar experiences, including one where the company just suspended my card without any effort to contact me because I had used the card at a pay phone. "We did that Sir because that's what the crooks do to verify the card is valid." :boggled:

The best way for the company to deal with a possibly compromised card is for them to call you and ask you to call them back. This alerts you that there is a problem and lets you deal with the issue at your convenience before you attempt to use the card again.

[chillzero]

The phone scam is unrelated to the credit card. You get a call and are given reasonably valid sounding options, and when you press a number the call is then charged back to you at a high rate, and you are detained on the call as long as possible. This isn't new, and warnings about it were doing the rounds about 2 years ago at an office I worked at. I dont' remember the details and haven't checked snopes or anything else yet today (because I did at the time) and it was apparently a legitimate scam warning.

My credit card company advise me (needlessly) never to give out private information over the phone or in emails. My building society do similar, as do Paypal, also saying I will never be asked for my password, or any other verification information unless I call them - so I know I am speaking to a legitimate representative. This makes sense.

I'm sorry but to go against this very advice in calling me at 08:00am while I'm commuting to work on abusy train and expecting me not to be suspicious, is just ridiculous. There was never even any notification that we would be contacted in this fashion, nor the option to opt out.

And as for inconvenience, I've had my card stopped at a till before for 'unusual activity' (a large purchase when I usually spend less than £30, or in an unusual location away from home). They usually call the company, and I can give verification of my identity to a real live person on the spot, and continue with the transaction. I've also had my card used fraudulently, and I have 2 separate layers of protection for this so I know I'll get my money back on anything I query as not my own activity..... apart from the fact that I do as little as possible that might put my number out there along with my name in the first place - such as allowing anyone to listen in on a call on a busy train while I confirm my name and whatever else came next.

[chillzero]

The best way for the company to deal with a possibly compromised card is for them to call you and ask you to call them back. This alerts you that there is a problem and lets you deal with the issue at your convenience before you attempt to use the card again.
I have also encountered this, and have no problem with that either. There are plenty of established ways for credit card companies to deal with this sort of thing, than a ridiculous automated machine calling you.

Oh - and my card was not frozen for the activity - it was frozen because I cut off the call. Nice way to encourage people to be complacent about future calls about their cards.

[Professor Yaffle]

It does sound like a stupid way to handle it. When some purchases we made were being queried, we got a message on our home phone asking us to call the bank and ask for x in y department as a matter of urgency. That way, if you are calling them, you know you are dealing with the right people.

[Aepervius]

The phone scam is well known here around.

To be more precise on what happens :
* you get phoned by a free or normal numbers
* a voice says you some option and try to get you to hit one (any)
* if you do so, the voice ask you to patient a bit
* hitting the number actually started a redial process forwarding you to an expansive number (getting a cut over it).
* once the other number is connected it try to occupy you as much as possible

The problem was (is?) mostly that the redialing was actually silent, and you would not know you actually were forwarded to anotehr number , and start being billed for it.

[rwguinn]

This has happened to me a couple of times. First time, I hung up and immediately called the number on my card. It was indeed legit, and I programmed the number into my phone.
The second time, I was replacing a cell phone (laundry does not agree with them, apparently). The phone I bough did not have the features I needed, despite assurances. 10 minutes later, I replaced it-with a slightly different priced version. The card had barely been run (2nd time at the same place in 10 minutes) when the phone rang-"Bank Fraud Alert" appeared as the number on the phone, and I was assured it was legit...

[Almo]

I'm in the "This is a silly fraud-protection scheme" camp. They're just trying to automate it to save money. I undstand that concern, but I wouldn't trust a call from someone claiming to be my card company.

[blutoski]

I could not find anything on Snopes, but I'm not aware of any way that simply pressing a key will put you on the hook for charges.

Not on most phones. Many PBX/key systems support a sequence that links an inbound call to an outbound trunk for the purpose of transfers, and this can be done in error by a receptionist unfamiliar with the phone system. It's usually a 'reserved' local, like 77 or 99.

There was a scam awhile ago where the scammer would phone random businesses and ask to be transferred to 'local 99', which meant they had dialtone on the business' outbound trunk, and they could dial long distance, billing to the business, or impersonate the business.



Simply confirming your name would not be enough under any state law that I am aware of.

Not legally, no..... That's the nature of fraud.

[HawaiiBigSis]

Get a different credit card?

[NobbyNobbs]

I've avoided all of this by not owning a credit card.

[chillzero]

Get a different credit card?
Nope. I've worked hard to regain a decent credit rating, and have no intentions of messing that up with extra cards and stuff that I don't need.

[HawaiiBigSis]

Nope. I've worked hard to regain a decent credit rating, and have no intentions of messing that up with extra cards and stuff that I don't need.
Actually, I was thinking same type of card, different company...

One of my credit card companies has an option on their website to change how "fraud alerts" are handled; I can change when they notify me, and I believe I can change how they notify me (phone, email, etc.) It's possible the Indian lady doesn't have this pre-programmed into her script; maybe you could find it by noodling around.

I think you should send a real letter (by postal mail, not email) to the company attempting to point out the idiocy of their policies.

[Dave Rogers]

Nope. I've worked hard to regain a decent credit rating, and have no intentions of messing that up with extra cards and stuff that I don't need.

I wouldn't have thought that taking out a new credit card would affect your credit rating adversely, as long as you pay off the existing one in full before you cancel. There are even some zero interest balance transfer deals still available, in the UK at least. Switching between credit cards to get a better deal is seen as fairly normal behaviour; I do it all the time and haven't seen any problems with my credit rating. If you don't like the service you're getting, change the provider. It's the most effective way to complain.

Dave

[Foolmewunz]

I hang up on any calls generated by a computer (e.g. with a computer voice speaking to me - I can't tell if a computer is dialing for them). Period. If the concern is legit, they'll have to reach me by human. (And yeah, so what if I run the risk of them cancelling my card or suspending it - I have the contact number and will delightfully spend thirty minutes reaming them a new place to put Marquis de Carabas' headware. It's just a general and fairly good principal, taught to us all by those same people - THE BANKS AND CREDIT INSTITUTIONS!)

What I love over here is that my own bank and even MY OWN MOBILE SERVICE PROVIDER call and the phone shows the calling party's number as "Not Available". That particular conversation generally goes something like this:

FMW: Hello?
Them: May I speak to XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXXXXX (my three names in any old order, every time)
FMW: This is.....
Them: Hi, this is Xiao Jou at Standard Chartered Bank(PCCW) and we just calling becau-
FMW: Not it isn't.
Them: Wha?
FMW: You're not with Standard Chartered Bank(PCCW).
Them: Yes I am.
FMW: No you're not. I've been banking with them(been a client) for 9 years and am I sooper dooper preferred express priority customer. And my own bank/service provider would not call me from an unlisted number.
Them: Ohhhhhhh....
FMW: Bye-bye. (click)


I don't give a crap. I'm their customer and they don't have the common sense to put their own numbers on the screen (which I can recognize because of their exchanges)??? They can save their annoying offers.

[chillzero]

I wouldn't have thought that taking out a new credit card would affect your credit rating adversely, as long as you pay off the existing one in full before you cancel. There are even some zero interest balance transfer deals still available, in the UK at least. Switching between credit cards to get a better deal is seen as fairly normal behaviour; I do it all the time and haven't seen any problems with my credit rating. If you don't like the service you're getting, change the provider. It's the most effective way to complain.

Dave

It shows up credit searches when you apply for a new one. I have experien credit watch and get notifications every time something adjusts on my listing, and this would be one. And, that's not really a big deal, I know.
I might change, but I'd prefer to try and resolve any issues first. I think they should be made aware that this is a really stupid thing to do.

[Lothian]

Perhaps the answer is not to change your card but to change your phone. Or at least tell them that you are getting rid of your mobile and that you only want to be contacted by post.

[LTC8K6]

Dropping a credit card you've held for years is not good for your credit rating as far as I know.

[BenBurch]

I had a good experience with my bank - PNC - I charged $3500 on my debit card and about 3 minutes later the phone rang and it was a live person verifying the activity.

[Modified]

I got one of these from BoA. There were a couple of calls over two days. They were probably automated but I didn't pick up since I didn't recognize the number. A human eventually called and left a message.

[Loss Leader]

Other than the complaints already raised, what would people advise any further course of action should be?


Write your story up and send it on to The Consumerist (www.consumerist.com). Publicity on their blog actually tends to get results and this is exactly the kind of story they like.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I had a good experience with my bank - PNC - I charged $3500 on my debit card and about 3 minutes later the phone rang and it was a live person verifying the activity.

My wife had a similar sort of service from Sears Canada. She got a phone call saying some charges from the Sears store in Atlanta would show up on her next bill but not to worry as they had been identified as fraudulent and would be reversed (including credit charges) in the following payment cycle.

Some companies are much more sensible than others.

[GeeMack]

A huge phone company somehow dropped the apartment number from my billing address. They called to inform me that my bill was returned to them as undeliverable and asked me to verify my billing information. There was no identifying information on the caller ID, and even if there had been, caller ID can be spoofed. When I refused to give them any personal information, as any sane intelligent person would, their employee got all pissy with me, which is standard operating procedure for the monkeys who work at AT&T. It took me over 6 hours of calling various customer service departments, waiting on hold, and getting treated like crap by several AT&T employees (did I mention that is standard operating procedure for them?) to get them to verify that the call was indeed from a department at AT&T. Finally they corrected their error in my billing address and re-sent the bill.

Oh, no, my friend, the story doesn't end there. They tried to add a $5 fee for requesting a duplicate bill. Oh, and the bill arrived 3 days after the due date and indicated an additional small late fee was required. Resolving this required another few hours of listening to AT&T idiots treating me like dirt and doing everything in their power to prevent me from talking to the necessary people. There is nothing like trying to communicate with a multibillion dollar communication business if you want to find out just how crappy of a job they do at communicating.

And don't get me started on trying to report bogus caller IDs to the Feds to resolve literally years of getting calls in violation of the federal do-not-call regulations. There is not even an attempt to provide legal protection from this sort of fraud and abuse of the phone systems. Keep this in mind when you start trusting the companies who call you based on their caller ID information.

[Naddig74]

When calling phone/broadband etc companies about a problem, don't tell the first script-reader you talk to what the problem is. Simply ask to be put through to disconnections. The folk at disconnections have the power to move heaven and earth to keep you giving them money. I've avoided the runaround a couple of times this way.

[Moon-Spinner]

This very thing happened to me too, this Spring. I got a phone message about verifying info concerning my credit card. I ignored it because I thought it might be a scam. A week later I used my credit card and discovered the account was frozen. That's when I thought that maybe that phone call was perhaps legit.

A slight inconvenience, but it forced ME to call the credit card company, which is better than accepting a phone call from God-Knows-Who claiming to be from the credit card company. I was glad that they recognized some illegitimate purchases being done with my account, but I agree that them calling us should make us suspicious. The next time I get called from someone claiming to be from my credit card company, I'll kindly say that I'll call back, and use the number on my card, and go through that route.

[blutoski]

I hang up on any calls generated by a computer (e.g. with a computer voice speaking to me - I can't tell if a computer is dialing for them). Period. If the concern is legit, they'll have to reach me by human. (And yeah, so what if I run the risk of them cancelling my card or suspending it - I have the contact number and will delightfully spend thirty minutes reaming them a new place to put Marquis de Carabas' headware. It's just a general and fairly good principal, taught to us all by those same people - THE BANKS AND CREDIT INSTITUTIONS!)

What I love over here is that my own bank and even MY OWN MOBILE SERVICE PROVIDER call and the phone shows the calling party's number as "Not Available". That particular conversation generally goes something like this:

FMW: Hello?
Them: May I speak to XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXXXXX (my three names in any old order, every time)
FMW: This is.....
Them: Hi, this is Xiao Jou at Standard Chartered Bank(PCCW) and we just calling becau-
FMW: Not it isn't.
Them: Wha?
FMW: You're not with Standard Chartered Bank(PCCW).
Them: Yes I am.
FMW: No you're not. I've been banking with them(been a client) for 9 years and am I sooper dooper preferred express priority customer. And my own bank/service provider would not call me from an unlisted number.
Them: Ohhhhhhh....
FMW: Bye-bye. (click)


I don't give a crap. I'm their customer and they don't have the common sense to put their own numbers on the screen (which I can recognize because of their exchanges)??? They can save their annoying offers.

Probably the savings obtained from using an overseas call center are greater than the losses caused by a fraction of their sales targets refusing to take the call.

If the actual calling number showed up, you probably wouldn't recognize it (it would have some alien country/city/exchange combo), and probably not answer anyway.

ETA:
And note GeeMack's comment: he did see the correct information on Call Display, but refused to cooperate because he knows it can be spoofed anyway.

[WildCat]

It's happened to me before, like when I went to get gas but stopped the fillup because the gas station had no fluid in their squegee bin and I had to get the salt off my windows so I went to the next gas station.

Apparently using 2 different gas stations a few minutes apart triggers this.

[Foolmewunz]

Probably the savings obtained from using an overseas call center are greater than the losses caused by a fraction of their sales targets refusing to take the call.

If the actual calling number showed up, you probably wouldn't recognize it (it would have some alien country/city/exchange combo), and probably not answer anyway.

ETA:
And note GeeMack's comment: he did see the correct information on Call Display, but refused to cooperate because he knows it can be spoofed anyway.


Nope. These are local calls. There aren't many Cantonese speakers anywhere other than Guangdong Province and Hong Kong (well, San Francisco, Vancouver, and New York, but I doubt they're manning call centres there).
And these aren't even security related calls. Could be marketing. Could be their friendly past due notice. (I have this habit of double-paying my bills by mistake, then the next month it's like 35 HK$ - $4 USD and I figure they'll just ignore it, but they actually call for such ridiculous amounts.) I figure they just reckon that we're all deadbeats and if we see that it's them we won't answer, but we just leap on anonymous calls.(Which no one I know does.)

The more ridiculous is when it's done by the mobile service provider. You're a damned mobile phone company and you have a stealth listing? You're MY provider and don't have the courtesy to show me that you're calling? It boggles the mind.

[blutoski]

Nope. These are local calls. There aren't many Cantonese speakers anywhere other than Guangdong Province and Hong Kong (well, San Francisco, Vancouver, and New York, but I doubt they're manning call centres there).
And these aren't even security related calls. Could be marketing. Could be their friendly past due notice. (I have this habit of double-paying my bills by mistake, then the next month it's like 35 HK$ - $4 USD and I figure they'll just ignore it, but they actually call for such ridiculous amounts.) I figure they just reckon that we're all deadbeats and if we see that it's them we won't answer, but we just leap on anonymous calls.(Which no one I know does.)

The more ridiculous is when it's done by the mobile service provider. You're a damned mobile phone company and you have a stealth listing? You're MY provider and don't have the courtesy to show me that you're calling? It boggles the mind.

It's still hard to say if the trunk lines are local. If foreign trunks are cheaper, they'll be used.

Call display can say whatever the account owner wants it to (often they put on a tollfree# for the inbound queue system, they don't want you to phone back into the outbound caller's line) so if there's nothing shown, it's probably from a foreign switch.

VoiP is a major source of foreign trunks. The tel# may be local, but the switch could be anywhere. My employer is headquartered in Burnaby BC, has a call center in Montreal PQ, and their VoiP switch is in Buffalo New York USA.

When they phone to BC residents, the voip switch doesn't link call display information to the old Verizon BC switches properly, so they come up as mystery lines. Interestingly, the new Verizon switches in BC/AB can handle this and show the override call display info from the voip switch.

It's a cost saving measure, and results actually seem to vary from switch to switch, so it's hard to troubleshoot.

[KoihimeNakamura]

There was a call where if you said yes that could be used to charge you for a service other than they were biling you for.

[marting]

I got an autmated call just the other day from Citibank to verify I made a purchase. CID indicated Citibank and they stated my name and that they wished to verify a charge. I pressed a button to validate my name. They then asked me to verify a gas station charge I made the day before which I did.

I wondered why as it was a fairly small amount then realized I had bought gas twice at two different stations within less than 2 hours. Makes sense that that would raise an automated flag. In my case I had filled up a loaner then had to fill up my car after it was serviced.

While it could have been fraudulent, it obviously wasn't as they had the $ amount correct, they knew my name, and they knew I had a Citicard with certain matching digits.

Seems like a good system to me.

Years ago I had fraudulent charges posted as a result of skimming a debit/charge card. No red flags were raised then in spite of the fact the "card" was used in two places over 8,000 mi apart within 5 hours. Forunately I caught it by pure luck before too much damage was done but it still took a few weeks to fix and I had to file a fraud report and get a new card.

Scams exist and one must weigh the relative risks as they come up.

[lionking]

Slightly different I know, but I get super annoyed when my bank rings me, and then asks me to identify myself. "Hang on" I say "you rang me. Who are you?" "I'm from XYZ bank". "Well identify yourself then". Silence. "Do you want me to put you through to a supervisor?". "No thanks". Click.

[jmcvann]

You have a phone that is so loud other people can hear the person on the other end? I have never come across such a thing.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

You have a phone that is so loud other people can hear the person on the other end? I have never come across such a thing.

I think most of the phones I own (something under 10) will do that if you turn the volume up.

[manxman]

So, I'm on the train on my way to work this morning, and I get a call.
When I answer it is an automated voice, telling me that it is calling from my credit card company, and wanting to verify some information about my card.

Riiiiggghhhtttt.

My credit card company regularly dump tons of information on me about fraud avoidance, and not giving out information over the phone. So I believe that they have a common sense approach to information sensitivity and confidentiality.

The voice - clearly audible to the person sitting next to me - asks me to press a button to confirm that I am <my name> and says it has information for me about fraud. Now the fact that my name is right bothers me more than a little, and I have also heard about phone scams that charge the person being called once they press buttons to accept options. There was no informaiton that enabled me to confirm that the call came from this company. There was no information given about whether I would be charged or not for the call. There was no indication that my card would be affected by my taking (or not taking) the call. It sounded like at best it would be an information call - remember not to give out your PIN, etc. At worst I suspected a phishing style scam (although I could see the number that rang me).

So, I hang up.

When I get to work I call my credit card company to notify them of this issue, and to give them the number that came up on my phone. I expect them to tell me that they are aware of this particular scam and thank me for my concern.

No.
I get bounced around a few different Indian ladies until I get one who tells me that yes, they send out automated calls to confirm that certain purchases made on my card were actually made by me. Because I did not complete the call, my card was temporarily frozen. I ask her does she not see the problem about doing this, which flies in the face of all their usual advice? She says that she will forward my complaint to the appropriate people, and then we sort out un-freezing my card.

I later find out that a colleague at work raised exactly the same complaint to the same company after getting the same call and also refusing to complete the call for the same reason - and her cards were also held over until she verified her purchases.

Other than the complaints already raised, what would people advise any further course of action should be? I was unable to get the woman I spoke to to get my number removed as a method of contacting me for fraud checking purposes, even when I explained to her why I thought this was a stupid thing for the company to do. Is it worth raising to an ombudsman, or anything? Should I make an independant complaint about this situation, and the fact that I was expected to verify private information with no way of telling a human person "please hold on until I am somewhere private / call back at xxx time"?

Did the crushingly obvious simply evade you.

Change company to one with a different policy.

Too simple for you ?, you would rather chase around ombudsmen etc etc,
just be honest you want to scam some compensation thats all, what other point is there to ombudsmen etc.

[chillzero]

Did the crushingly obvious simply evade you.

Change company to one with a different policy.
Perhaps you missed the responses to that suggestion already.:rolleyes:

I see no need to further inconvenience myself and imapct my credit rating and not take a simple, low-effort opportunity to explain to a company why several people think this new method of doing something is a stupid one.

Too simple for you ?, you would rather chase around ombudsmen etc etc,
Who's chasing anything? I asked for advice on the best way to address somethign stupid that a company is doing. I've spent little effort on it since, and won't spend much effort on it in the future either.

just be honest you want to scam some compensation thats all, what other point is there to ombudsmen etc.
My, you are a charmer, aren't you?
I'm not after money - where on earth did you get that idea? And speaking of crushingly simple and obvious - I have no financial loss to be compensated for.:rolleyes:
Where's your evidence that I would ever 'scam' anything? Nice casual accusation to throw out there.

Anyhoo, I'll be compiling a letter to the company this week explaining the issues as discussed above. Thank you to those who provided constructive comments. Some of those will be useful.

[oggiesnr]

My card got cloned and then used in Hong Kong and my provider blocked it straight away. However it took threedays for the letter to arrive asking me to contact them. Inthe interimn I'd filled my van with diesel, eighty pound's worth and my card got rejected at the till! Fotunately it was a market day so I had the cash on me but if not ...

Steve

[Toke]

Hong Kong,
I have had my card eaten in an ATM twice there. :mad:
And had it expire the day before signing off in Cape town. :mad:

But it have never been blocked, a bit strange as I tend to use it in mysterious places.
The paper have an article on Danes on vacation getting their card blocked without explanation, so it is an international phenomenon.
Either I have been lucky, or my (small) bank have written me off as eccentric.

[Region Rat]

I got a call from my credit card company one evening a a couple of years ago. Not an automated message, but a real person. He said that there were some very large charges on my card and they wanted to verify information. Being the paranoid psycotic that I am, I got kind of rude with him and told him I didn't know who the heck he was and not to call me again. After I hung up, I tried to log on to my account on line, but the account was locked. Now I'm worried, so I called the support number, got a lady, and explained my situation. She looked it up and said, yes, there were some very large charges on my card and they tried to call to verify information. I explained meekly that a guy just tried to talk to me but I blew him off. She said I know, he's sitting right here. It turned out that someone had my card number and was buying up the store in Florida, and I am nowhere close to there. The card was cancelled and charges removed and all of that good stuff.

Bottom line, I'm not sure what else they could do, except make a call and tell me to call my card support number for assistance, and not try to verify information cold like that. With an automated message, that would seem to be the best way to go, although you would lose time finding the number and getting to a place to call. I wouldn't trust a number that they give me to call. What would be the point of that?

[Rocko]

What they need is a phone number on the back of the card itself, the literature the send out, their website etc. If they're worried that the card has been stolen or cloned, they then ring you and ask you to ring them back on the number. You can then verify it either by checking it and then doing so.

Alternatively, I suppose you could ask for info from the to verify they who they are - what's my DoB & postcode etc.

[chillzero]

Rocko - they do have that number on all cards. And yes, if you actually speak to a person you could get verification. You can't do anythign when they make a computer call you up.

I got a response to my complaint:
"<card> is at the forefront of combating credit card fraud and we are continually looking at new technology to allow us to keep one step ahead of a
fraudster.

It may help you to know, that from time to time we may wish to speak
with you as our fraud prevention systems can recognise unusual or abnormally
excessive use of a card and also known areas where card fraud takes place. The
purpose of speaking with you is to confirm your identity and that any spending
made recently on your account is genuine. This is part of our on-going campaign
to reduce fraud and in no way is a reflection of your credit worthiness."

I have yet to call back to discuss it as they then go on to request. They seem to have missed the point of my complaint.

[HawaiiBigSis]

Rocko - they do have that number on all cards. And yes, if you actually speak to a person you could get verification. You can't do anythign when they make a computer call you up.

I got a response to my complaint:
"<card> is at the forefront of combating credit card fraud and we are continually looking at new technology to allow us to keep one step ahead of a
fraudster.

It may help you to know, that from time to time we may wish to speak
with you as our fraud prevention systems can recognise unusual or abnormally
excessive use of a card and also known areas where card fraud takes place. The
purpose of speaking with you is to confirm your identity and that any spending
made recently on your account is genuine. This is part of our on-going campaign
to reduce fraud and in no way is a reflection of your credit worthiness."

I have yet to call back to discuss it as they then go on to request. They seem to have missed the point of my complaint.
Yep, you do seem to have gotten the boiler-plate "first contact" letter. I would definitely follow-up, since there's no indication that they understood your point.

[chillzero]

Tried following up and ended up arguing with a lady about whether or not my phone number should be on their database at all, and whether requesting that they do not give me these automated calls means I fully accept all responsibility for every charge, valid or otherwise, placed on my card. :eye-poppi

I managed to get her to back down on the latter, and to finally admit that this is not the sole, single and only possible way they have to contact me (as they have my email, house phone, actual address, and even the ability to send a simple text message that states "Please call your credit card company using the number on the back of your card").

I quit while I was ahead.

[Giggywig]

Tried following up and ended up arguing with a lady about whether or not my phone number should be on their database at all, and whether requesting that they do not give me these automated calls means I fully accept all responsibility for every charge, valid or otherwise, placed on my card. :eye-poppi

I managed to get her to back down on the latter, and to finally admit that this is not the sole, single and only possible way they have to contact me (as they have my email, house phone, actual address, and even the ability to send a simple text message that states "Please call your credit card company using the number on the back of your card").

I quit while I was ahead.
My company does it by text. Something like "A charge of $X was placed to card ending in XXXX from XXXX which could be fraudulent. Reply 1 to confirm, 2 to report suspect." Easy as pie.

[patchbunny]

For the second time in a year someone obtained the number to my Charles Schwab VISA and began a spending spree. Both times I was called immediately by a live person and asked to verify charges. I asked how they knew, and they pointed out thieves will commonly try a small charge (in this case an iTunes thingy for a buck) to verify the card works, then ring up larger amounts. This trips their flags, and they then contact the cardholder to verify if the card has been compromised. Overall I'm very happy with this bank.

I bought a lot of stuff from a lot of different places last week. Now I gotta figure out where they got my number from. :P

[marting]

I've taken to using virtual CC numbers on most all phone orders and internet accounts. I also use cash only at restaurants.

[Uncle Otto]

I've taken to using virtual CC numbers on most all phone orders and internet accounts. I also use cash only at restaurants.

Good move. The only time I will use a CC in a restaurant is if I'm in another country. That way you get the correct exchange rate. You just have to be careful.