What are the finest examples of 9/ll Truther stupidity that you've ever encountered?

[Titanic Explorer]

Truthers are not exactly the brightest bunch of people- They exhibit a shocking ignorance in elementary physics, as well as chemistry.

There are multiple competing conspiracies within the withering Truther movement- what are some of the most absurd assertions you've ever heard?

Tops on my list is one thing I found on this message board- We do have a resident no-planer, and he thinks no planes hit the WTC, and nobdy in NY or NJ actually saw the planes hit the towers. He also thinks all the videos of the planes hitting the towers are fakes. - and that what did crash were in fact holograms. He also asserts that all the plane wreckage was planted, the phone calls from the planes were fakes, and that no passenger remains were found at Ground Zero. These are typical no-planer beliefs, and are some hardcore tinfoil hat delusions...


Some other strange views I've heard from Truthers is the tiresome chesnut that 'jet fuel can't get hot enough to melt steel, so the towers couldn't have collapsed on their own'. Truthers fail to see the floors wouldn't have to melt- merlely sagging would be enough to pull each floor away from the outer walls, which would lead to an accordian collapse...

I have also noticed Truthers like to talk about thermite- but when pressed, they can't seem to define thermite- Some thought thermite was like plastic explosives...Yeesh....

Truthers also seem to feel that the south tower collapsing right next to Building 7, and a fire that raged all day inside Building 7 wouldn't have seriously damaged the building- so planted explosives caused the collapse!

Ever encounter Truther stupidity or theory that left you with your jaw agape?

What Truther comment or theory is worthy of the tinfoil crown?

[Fourbrick]

Truthers are not exactly the brightest bunch of people- They exhibit a shocking ignorance in elementary physics, as well as chemistry.......
Truthers also seem to feel that the south tower collapsing right next to Building 7, and a fire that raged all day inside Building 7 wouldn't have seriously damaged the building- so planted explosives caused the collapse!...

What Truther comment or theory is worthy of the tinfoil crown?


Maybe you are showing a shocking ignorance of what hit WTC7, and should get your owntinfoil hat for saying the South Tower collapsed next to WTC7. :D

[BigAl]

Truthers are not exactly the brightest bunch of people- They exhibit a shocking ignorance in elementary physics, as well as chemistry.

I nominate our own Redibis in the demonstrated ignorance of physics category.

I imagine if you found thermally expanded floor members, you might also be able to determine what location in the bldg they came from.

Did they find any of these thermally expanded floor members?
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6032219#post6032219

[Oystein]

I had one truther in a German social forum who claimed that Larry Silverstein made a huge profit, because he quoted the price he paid for the WTC in the millions and the insurances he received in the billions. Something on the order "WTC cost him 3.9 millions and he got 8 billions from insurances".

I still can't grasp to this day that anyone would think the biggest and most high-profile real estate in New York could be had at less than many a beach mansion in Malibu! 3.9 million is an average lottery win. He earnestly thought, Miss Erna Little, winning the lottery, could have bought the WTC! And that there would be insurance companies in this world that would insure buildings at 2000 times their purchase price!
(Of course he was additionally wrong on the insurance payouts for the Twin Towers, but may be excused for the wrong figure of 8 billion came from Wikipedia, when the true figure is somewhere around 4.7 billion IIRC).

So this dude was wrong by a factor of about 1750.


Same dude thinks a fighter squadron is the same thing as a couple of fighters on alert. We argued about that for about a dozend posts each - he claimed that because Andrews AFB has a fighter squadron or two, they had fighters on alert that could have been scrambled within 5 minutes. When I pointed out to him that fighter squadrons that are not on alert might take a liiiiiiiil longer, he declared ME the fool.

[Sabrina]

Nah, 911thology takes the cake with his insistence that mini-nukes were used to destroy the towers. Never mind the fact that no one died of radiation sickness, or that most of downtown Manhattan wasn't in fact obliterated by the blast wave, or that there were SURVIVORS found IN the wreckage... nope, it was mini-nukes.

I leave you to draw your own conclusions as to his sanity, or lack thereof. :rolleyes:

[CompusMentus]

Wood and Fetzers grand piano is the first to come to mind for me.

From a Real Deal Radio interview Fetzer hosted way back in 2006.

Judy W. had asked a friend to calculate the drag coefficients and it was reckoned that a Steinway would take 30 seconds to fall the height of one of the towers "because if the lid was open it would act as a parachute."

Monumentally crass.

Compus

[RedIbis]

I nominate our own Redibis in the demonstrated ignorance of physics category.

Please forward this doozy to the Stundies thread, but you might want to check that thread where even Dave had to admit that if thermal expansion of floor members occurred it would be discernible.

[Dave Rogers]

Please forward this doozy to the Stundies thread, but you might want to check that thread where even Dave had to admit that if thermal expansion of floor members occurred it would be discernible.

I see you didn't understand that, either.

Dave

[16.5]

Please forward this doozy to the Stundies thread, but you might want to check that thread where even Dave had to admit that if thermal expansion of floor members occurred it would be discernible.

There is one truther who claimed that Silverstein "made out like a bandit" but when asked to support that contention appears completely offended that anyone would dare question it.

Isn't that RIDICULOUS RED?????

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Claiming that pouring a billion dollars in rent into an empty non-revenue generating hole over 8 and a half years = "making out like a bandit" is pretty frakking stupid.

Just as stupid in fact as claiming it was mini-nukes or orbital ray guns.

[Thunder]

What Truther comment or theory is worthy of the tinfoil crown?

"we don't need facts, we only need doubt".

its either amazingly ignorant...or frightenly calculated.

you choose.

oh..and a few years ago, Truthers used to argue that it was
"highly suspicious" that Silverstein got terrorism insurance for the WTC. As if the WTC was never a target of terrorism before.

[BigAl]

Please forward this doozy to the Stundies thread, but you might want to check that thread where even Dave had to admit that if thermal expansion of floor members occurred it would be discernible.

The point isn't that Dave understands it. The point is that you don't.

Originally Posted by RedIbis
Wouldn't how they were affected by heat also help determine what location they came from? I imagine if you found thermally expanded floor members, you might also be able to determine what location in the bldg they came from.

Did they find any of these thermally expanded floor members? Did they recover Column 79?

[240-185]

Some samples of 9/11 stoopidity:

"Laws of Physics were broken on that day"
"Prove the calculations of the NIST are correct"
"No plane hit the WTC"
"If the Bush government pays the scientists at NIST, that means they are corrupted"
"Free fall speed"
"The bodies were there, not the plane"
Everything that troofers declare "FAKE", without explanation
"When we [troofers] present a global explanation of 9/11, you argue we can't provide evidence for it, that's a circular reasoning!"
Examining some chips of paint that came from the Twin Towers. Just doing this means that you already have your conclusion, independently from the crappiness of the Bentham paper.

[RedIbis]

The point isn't that Dave understands it. The point is that you don't.

What's truly stupid is that you don't think there would be any physical evidence of this key factor, namely, thermal expansion of the floor systems, that lead to the collapse of the bldg.

[Grizzly Bear]

What's truly stupid is that you don't think there would be any physical evidence of this key factor, namely, thermal expansion of the floor systems, that lead to the collapse of the bldg.
Since the changes in volume and linear length of materials is temperature dependent, and the temperature constantly has an effect on materials I think the proof of it "happening" is a no brainer. I think if you're going to show any skepticism about how much a factor it was in a collapse you'd be interested in more specifics than portraying a position where there's a doubt of it happening at all. Here's something to get you started when you want to discuss elsewhere: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/thexp.html

[RedIbis]

Since the changes in volume and linear length of materials is temperature dependent, and the temperature constantly has an effect on materials I think the proof of it "happening" is a no brainer. I think if you're going to show any skepticism about how much a factor it was in a collapse you'd be interested in more specifics than portraying a position where there's a doubt of it happening at all. Here's something to get you started when you want to discuss elsewhere: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/thexp.html

I didn't click your link, but I'm willing to bet you're again attempting to argue something I'm not debating.

What is the "it" that is "happening"? Please answer this specifically. But before you do, please know that I am not debating whether or not thermal expansion can occur. I'm questioning whether or not NIST has proven that it did occur, and that its occurence lead to the collapse of a single column, which in short order, lead to the collapse of the entire building.

I thought this exchange covering old ground would be a derail, but the fact that too many "debunkers" accept this chain of events without expecting any forensic support is truly one of the stupidest things I've encountered here.

[DGM]

I'm questioning whether or not NIST has proven that it did occur, .


Never mind.... (it's not worth it)

[ScottyMate]

No planers are right up there, but one of the strangest I found was a long vide series on Youtube on the channel "911thology". A man calling himself Dimiri claimed to be "a commissioned officer of the Soviet nuclear intelligence for 5 years", and was claiming that the WTC were brought down by nuclear devices in the foundations. The reason for there being nuclear bombs in the foundations was in case they ever needed to be demolished some day - where regular demolition would be impossible.

The plane that hit the Pentagon was in fact a stolen Russian missile launched from offshore. The "planes" that hit the towers were actually carrying nuclear devices. So to prevent a catastrophic airburst detonation over Manhattan, a high level decision was made by the US Government to nuke the towers (from the bombs planted in the foundation remember?) and bring them safely down to the ground. Phew....

Oh yeah, he said this naturally explained the cover up, and that Alex Jones and the regular Truth Movement are in fact also part of the cover up. All this can be found in the book he’s got on sale of course.

I had a few back an forth’s with this guy, and his interview series has since either been removed, or put on private.

[djlunacee]

Nah, 911thology takes the cake with his insistence that mini-nukes were used to destroy the towers. Never mind the fact that no one died of radiation sickness, or that most of downtown Manhattan wasn't in fact obliterated by the blast wave, or that there were SURVIVORS found IN the wreckage... nope, it was mini-nukes.

I leave you to draw your own conclusions as to his sanity, or lack thereof. :rolleyes:

We can not forget that because dictionaries world wide changed the definition of ground zero to specifically include WTC that was proof that the government did it, or that the nukes were built in as part of a contingency plan for the self destruction of the towers, they were planted underground, and the concussion wave didn't do much damage to the "bathtub", but was catastrophic at 1000 feet. You know what they say, "ignorance is bliss".


There is craziness in all the different versions of the twoof from every faction of the movement, no planers, CDers, it doesn't really matter they all live in this fantasy world.

Our very own Jammonious is the one you can't resist, I mean anyone who can say, that if you were to say "we saw the plane" as a group that it really does not include you, therefore your statement is invalid is an absolute moron. For someone to argue such things shows a definite break from the reality of the matter. Someone who argues that the sounds of a subway(below ground) or a passing bus, could be mistaken for the sound of jet, has no hold on reality, sanity or anything else that resembles a rational thought. It is rather sad when you think about it.

[djlunacee]

No planers are right up there, but one of the strangest I found was a long vide series on Youtube on the channel "911thology". A man calling himself Dimiri claimed to be "a commissioned officer of the Soviet nuclear intelligence for 5 years", and was claiming that the WTC were brought down by nuclear devices in the foundations. The reason for there being nuclear bombs in the foundations was in case they ever needed to be demolished some day - where regular demolition would be impossible.

The plane that hit the Pentagon was in fact a stolen Russian missile launched from offshore. The "planes" that hit the towers were actually carrying nuclear devices. So to prevent a catastrophic airburst detonation over Manhattan, a high level decision was made by the US Government to nuke the towers (from the bombs planted in the foundation remember?) and bring them safely down to the ground. Phew....

Oh yeah, he said this naturally explained the cover up, and that Alex Jones and the regular Truth Movement are in fact also part of the cover up. All this can be found in the book he’s got on sale of course.

I had a few back an forth’s with this guy, and his interview series has since either been removed, or put on private.

I know this all to well trust me. It was right after his venture into this forum that his videos went private. The former rooski thread here is an example of classic madness:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=171498

Then again he did flirt with my gone fishing avatar, so what does that tell you????

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I didn't click your link, but I'm willing to bet you're again attempting to argue something I'm not debating.

What is the "it" that is "happening"? Please answer this specifically. But before you do, please know that I am not debating whether or not thermal expansion can occur. I'm questioning whether or not NIST has proven that it did occur, and that its occurence lead to the collapse of a single column, which in short order, lead to the collapse of the entire building.

I thought this exchange covering old ground would be a derail, but the fact that too many "debunkers" accept this chain of events without expecting any forensic support is truly one of the stupidest things I've encountered here.

Instead of b****ing about it Red, why don't you conduct your own scientific test to prove NIST wrong. Or are you that lazy not to do tests yourself to prove that you're right?

[Dave Rogers]

What's truly stupid is that you don't think there would be any physical evidence of this key factor, namely, thermal expansion of the floor systems, that lead to the collapse of the bldg.

RedIbis, there's no need for this. You've already demonstrated that you're utterly ignorant of what thermal expansion is, to the extent that, when it's explained to you, you hear the complete opposite of the explanation. Since there's nobody new round here, nobody's learning anything new. I explained to you that thermal expansion is reversed when the temperature is reduced, and that only plastic deformation as a result of thermal expansion would be visible. I thought I probably didn't need to explain to you that many, many structural members were seen to have suffered plastic deformation, for which I apologise; I was wrong to underestimate the sheer breadth of your ignorance about the material you claim to be interested in. I also thought I probably didn't need to explain to you that plastic deformation as a result of thermal expansion isn't distinguishable from plastic deformation from any other cause, like for example the collapse of a large building; clearly, I've underestimated your ignorance here too. So, for assuming you're capable of elementary reasoning and have some basic knowledge about the subjects on which you feel the world's experts should defer to you, I apologise unreservedly, and I shall remember never to assume that you're able to understand anything anyone says ever again.

Dave

[BaaBaa]

What rhymes with 'babonnius'?

[Brainster]

1. Clunkety-clunk!
2. Box Boy Richard Gage's experiment that changed the world.
3. Truthburn
4. The "Week of Truth" where the Troofers sold a grand total of 800 copies of Shell Game.
5. The guy with the stackable office trays.

[Woody-]

My favorite example of stupidity is "concrete core" Christophera.

[Titanic Explorer]

My favorite example of stupidity is "concrete core" Christophera.

Have you noticed the number of Truthers that really have no understanding of how the Twin Towers were designed and constructed?

[Pardalis]

My favorite example of stupidity is "concrete core" Christophera.

That's not stupidity, it's insanity.

[Titanic Explorer]

That's not stupidity, it's insanity.

Many of the Truthers fancy themselves to be engineers...

[Titanic Explorer]

The most assinine theory I heard was one of the many anti-semitic chesnuts- the one that all the Jews were that worked at the WTC were told not come into work at the WTC on 9/11 (presumably contacted by Israel, who many Truthers think was behind 9/11)

The fact is MANY Jews (And Christians, atheists, Muslims, etc) were murdered that day in NY

[njslim]

Wood and Fetzers grand piano is the first to come to mind for me.

From a Real Deal Radio interview Fetzer hosted way back in 2006.

Judy W. had asked a friend to calculate the drag coefficients and it was reckoned that a Steinway would take 30 seconds to fall the height of one of the towers "because if the lid was open it would act as a parachute."

Monumentally crass.

Compus

Sounds like episode of MYTHBUSTERS

Does a grand piano fall faster with the lid closed ?

Love to see that one.....

[Bell]

Sounds like episode of MYTHBUSTERS

Does a grand piano fall faster with the lid closed ?

Love to see that one.....

What is it about pianos and falling? ALWAYS. Every. Single. Freaking. Time.

[jhunter1163]

Anyone remember "net force = zero"?

[Harpo]

Many of the Truthers fancy themselves to be engineers intelligent...

They're wrong!

[CORed]

I didn't click your link, but I'm willing to bet you're again attempting to argue something I'm not debating.

What is the "it" that is "happening"? Please answer this specifically. But before you do, please know that I am not debating whether or not thermal expansion can occur. I'm questioning whether or not NIST has proven that it did occur, and that its occurence lead to the collapse of a single column, which in short order, lead to the collapse of the entire building.

I thought this exchange covering old ground would be a derail, but the fact that too many "debunkers" accept this chain of events without expecting any forensic support is truly one of the stupidest things I've encountered here.

When the steel got hot, it expanded. When it cooled off, it contracted. Thermal expansion isn't some kind of hit-or-miss, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't phenomenon, it's an inherent property of all materials. So the idea that one has to look for evidence of thermal expansion in a building that was on fire is just plain stupid.

[patchbunny]

Dunno. How do you divide statements by the mentally ill from the terminally stupid? And how can you tell? Some people are just so out there.

Anyway, I've always loved the C-4 coated rebar on all the floor concrete.

[RedIbis]

When the steel got hot, it expanded. When it cooled off, it contracted. Thermal expansion isn't some kind of hit-or-miss, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't phenomenon, it's an inherent property of all materials. So the idea that one has to look for evidence of thermal expansion in a building that was on fire is just plain stupid.

Good lord for the tenth time, I'm not arguing the occurence of thermal expansion, I'm questioning how such a common occurence could cause the global collapse of a building.

I suspect that in nearly every fire in a steel framed building, some thermal expansion occurs. But in WTC 7 this leads to global collapse. Not only does NIST have to prove that this is what happened, they also have to prove that the fires got hot enough and burned long enough in the necessary locations.

I'm not saying their hypothesis is impossible, but if you wish to close the case on WTC 7, not requiring some extraordinary physical evidence to back up this hypothesis is just plain stupid.

[Dave Rogers]

I suspect that in nearly every fire in a steel framed building, some thermal expansion occurs.

Your tragedy is that you're probably incapable of understanding how, even when you've tried to sound informed and reasonable, you still end up saying something so pathetically stupid as this.

Dave

[Oystein]

...Not only does NIST have to prove that this is what happened, they also have to prove that the fires got hot enough and burned long enough in the necessary locations.

I'm not saying their hypothesis is impossible, but if you wish to close the case on WTC 7, not requiring some extraordinary physical evidence to back up this hypothesis is just plain stupid.

Actually, going back to standard scientific method, you can never positively proof a theory.
A theory is good and is/becomes the accepted incumbent, if it explains all the known observations with the least amount of unproven assumptions. In that regard, the NIST-theory is the accepted incumbent.

If you don't like it, you have two ways of bringing it down:

a) make a testable prediction from the theory (from the NIST-theory, not from any arbitrary "just asking questions" or from any ad-hoc truther intuitions), and run the test. If the test fails, you have cast some legitimate doubt on the theory, and it needs to be improved upon. Better yet, make a prediction from a point tha contradicts the theory, and test it; if test is successful, you have falsified the theory, and it needs to be improved.

b) come up with a different theory, show that it explains at least as many of the observed facts, and that it needs not more unproven assumptions. Then defend that new theory by having your opponents try to successfully run a falsifying test.


No theory explains everything, and no theory can hope that all predictions it makes will in practice be tested positive.
In this case, when a building collapses, it is so very likely that evidence gets destroyed or unrecognizable.


If you don't have as much faith in the NIST theory about WTC7 because you feel there are too many assumptions and too little positive proof, that's fine. I happen to take the full narative of the NIST report with a good dash of salt myself. However, it so far is the best theory we have, as it has not been falsified yet, and gets away with countably few assumptions. One of these would involve fire locations, durations and associated heat. None of that has been measured in situ, and precious little forensic evidence has been found, so yeah, we have unproven assumptions there, but none that would predict things we know did not happen.
Any rivalling theory we are aware of to date has introduced assumptions from which we can make falsifiable predictions, and these predictions have in fact been falsified.

[CORed]

Actually, going back to standard scientific method, you can never positively proof a theory.
A theory is good and is/becomes the accepted incumbent, if it explains all the known observations with the least amount of unproven assumptions. In that regard, the NIST-theory is the accepted incumbent.

If you don't like it, you have two ways of bringing it down:

a) make a testable prediction from the theory (from the NIST-theory, not from any arbitrary "just asking questions" or from any ad-hoc truther intuitions), and run the test. If the test fails, you have cast some legitimate doubt on the theory, and it needs to be improved upon. Better yet, make a prediction from a point tha contradicts the theory, and test it; if test is successful, you have falsified the theory, and it needs to be improved.

b) come up with a different theory, show that it explains at least as many of the observed facts, and that it needs not more unproven assumptions. Then defend that new theory by having your opponents try to successfully run a falsifying test.


No theory explains everything, and no theory can hope that all predictions it makes will in practice be tested positive.
In this case, when a building collapses, it is so very likely that evidence gets destroyed or unrecognizable.


If you don't have as much faith in the NIST theory about WTC7 because you feel there are too many assumptions and too little positive proof, that's fine. I happen to take the full narative of the NIST report with a good dash of salt myself. However, it so far is the best theory we have, as it has not been falsified yet, and gets away with countably few assumptions. One of these would involve fire locations, durations and associated heat. None of that has been measured in situ, and precious little forensic evidence has been found, so yeah, we have unproven assumptions there, but none that would predict things we know did not happen.
Any rivalling theory we are aware of to date has introduced assumptions from which we can make falsifiable predictions, and these predictions have in fact been falsified.

I'm certainly not a structural engineer, and I lack the expertise to have an informed opinion about the validity of NIST's hypotheses. However, the basic facts about WTC7 are: Building was hit by falling, burning debris from one of the bigger towers hit by a plane (I don't remember which, and I'm too lazy to look it up now), and caught fire as a result. A few hours later, the building collapsed.

Now, to anyone who's not bat guano crazy, the default hypothesis is that the damage from the debris, the fire, or a combination of the two caused the collapse. Even if NIST is wrong about the actual mechanism by which the debris and fire caused the collapse, that does not, absent evidence for some other cause for the collapse, constitute evidence that some diabolical, government-sponsored conspiracy, or Larry Silverstein insurance scam involving thermite planted in the building or a controlled demolition rigged in a few hours in a burning building did cause it.

Nearly 10 years after the disaster, the "truth movement" (if you can call a few hundred internet loons and their hangers-on a movement) can offer nothing more than argument from personal incredulity and a gross misunderstanding of basic physics to support their absurd fantasies.

[CORed]

I suspect that in nearly every fire in a steel framed building, some thermal expansion occurs.

ftfy.

[Dave Rogers]

ftfy.

Awwww. I was hoping he'd figure it out for himself; there's a first time for everything.

Dave

[X]

Let's see...

I have had Heiwa admit that a buidling will still stand even if all but one structural support were removed, regardless of the load bearing capacity of that support.

I also recall Terral (I've seen a few posts of his pop up on CTSTDT) insisting that heat transfer throughout a metal structure instantaneously to all points. So that in order to heat the steel in one area (like, say, above a fire) to any degree, the whole structure will have to heat up with it.

Jammonius is too easy...

[fess]

Good lord for the tenth time, I'm not arguing the occurence of thermal expansion, I'm questioning how such a common occurence could cause the global collapse of a building.

I suspect that in nearly every fire in a steel framed building, some thermal expansion occurs. But in WTC 7 this leads to global collapse. Not only does NIST have to prove that this is what happened, they also have to prove that the fires got hot enough and burned long enough in the necessary locations.

I'm not saying their hypothesis is impossible, but if you wish to close the case on WTC 7, not requiring some extraordinary physical evidence to back up this hypothesis is just plain stupid.

Ever talked to a firefighter? I,ve seen several concrete blocks walls fail because of steel trusses expanding.

[triforcharity]

Good lord for the tenth time, I'm not arguing the occurence of thermal expansion, I'm questioning how such a common occurence could cause the global collapse of a building.

I suspect that in nearly every fire in a steel framed building, some thermal expansion occurs. But in WTC 7 this leads to global collapse. Not only does NIST have to prove that this is what happened, they also have to prove that the fires got hot enough and burned long enough in the necessary locations.

I'm not saying their hypothesis is impossible, but if you wish to close the case on WTC 7, not requiring some extraordinary physical evidence to back up this hypothesis is just plain stupid.

Well, that is mostly true Red. Most fires in steel framed structures do cause some thermal expansion. BUT, it is minimal at best. Maybe a few cm. at the most. And usually not over large areas.

Now, the SFRM in 7WTC was rated for about 2 hours. This gives plenty of time for evacuations and for the firefighters to extinguish the fire. Now, when that fire is allowed to burn uncontrolled for 7 hours (3.5 Xs it's rated protection time) what do you expect to happen?

Just about any office fire will get hot enough to cause thermal expansion. Hell, a hot day in Florida causes thermal expansion in steel and concrete too.

Why is this such a suprise? Thermal expansion is deadly to steel framed structures. This has been known for years.

[WildCat]

The point isn't that Dave understands it. The point is that you don't.
Wait, RedIbis thinks once a length of steel thermally expands, it stays expanded even after it cools down again?

Really?

:boggled:

[Dog Town]

Thermal expansion is deadly to steel framed structures. This has been known for years.

It's so cute that twoofers think, since they've never seen, or heard of something, that it can't be true/real!

Timeless, really...

[RedIbis]

Well, that is mostly true Red. Most fires in steel framed structures do cause some thermal expansion. BUT, it is minimal at best. Maybe a few cm. at the most. And usually not over large areas.

Now, the SFRM in 7WTC was rated for about 2 hours. This gives plenty of time for evacuations and for the firefighters to extinguish the fire. Now, when that fire is allowed to burn uncontrolled for 7 hours (3.5 Xs it's rated protection time) what do you expect to happen?

Just about any office fire will get hot enough to cause thermal expansion. Hell, a hot day in Florida causes thermal expansion in steel and concrete too.

Why is this such a suprise? Thermal expansion is deadly to steel framed structures. This has been known for years.

I wonder if Dave will pounce on you for mostly agreeing and essentially phrasing it the same way I did, namely: "Most fires in steel framed structures do cause some thermal expansion." This is what I stated I simply suspected.

Also, you've proven to be one of the more calm and civil posters I've encountered here, so we can have a productive discussion absent the invenctive, regardless of your unfortunate baseball loyalties.

I don't think I can restate it any more possible ways that I'm not contesting whether thermal expansion occurred in WTC 7, I'm questioning whether it resulted in what NIST said, since as you pointed out, thermal expansion happens in fires, why did it bring the bldg down in this one, since it's never brought a steel framed high rise down before?

My final point on this is that you are suggesting that the fires burned for 7 hours, do you actually think it burned in one location for that long? Of course it didn't so why suggest that the fires burned twice their rating, when the fire had to move around the floors to consume more fuel?

[Oystein]

I wonder if Dave will pounce on you for mostly agreeing and essentially phrasing it the same way I did, namely: "Most fires in steel framed structures do cause some thermal expansion." This is what I stated I simply suspected....

Just to get this clear:

Do you suspect that some fires in steel framed structures do not cause any thermal expansion?

Or do you suppose that all fires in steel framed structures do cause some thermal expansion?

[Seymour Butz]

why did it bring the bldg down in this one, since it's never brought a steel framed high rise down before?

Because of the rare combination of long span floors, unfought fires,a composite floor system the didn't have the studs at that location, and connections that weren't designed to deal with thermal expansion.

It's all in the NIST report.

Of course it didn't so why suggest that the fires burned twice their rating, when the fire had to move around the floors to consume more fuel?

NIST used a rather sophisticated sytem of programs (FDS and FIS, IIRC) to predict the steel/concrete temps. This takes into account all factors like fire location and duration in any location as it moved about the floor, SFRM insulation, office compartmentization, etc.

If you have a better way of predicting the floor steel and concrete temps than what NIST used, feel free to present it.

[BigAl]

My final point on this is that you are suggesting that the fires burned for 7 hours, do you actually think it burned in one location for that long? Of course it didn't so why suggest that the fires burned twice their rating, when the fire had to move around the floors to consume more fuel?

Why do you assume that after an hour or two of fire, when all fuel is consumed the floor returns to ambient in minutes and not hours, many hours?

Can we say "heat soak"? Of course we can. Maybe you can't.

[Dave Rogers]

Well, that is mostly true Red. Most fires in steel framed structures do cause some thermal expansion. BUT, it is minimal at best. Maybe a few cm. at the most. And usually not over large areas.

I suppose RedIbis is right about one thing: this is also untrue. All fires in all structures cause thermal expansion. Other than some extremely exotic materials, any form of heating of any kind of structure causes thermal expansion. The belief among truthers that thermal expansion was made up by NIST is one of the most bizarre developments in the sorry saga of 9/11 truth.

Dave

[CORed]

Replying to OP here. There is so much in the truther world that is mind-boggling in its stupidity that it is difficult to choose, but I'm going to have to go with Jammonius refering to the plane in the videos as a "shadow thingy". Of course, the whole thread where he cited videos of the planes hitting the towers as evidence that no plane hit the towers was one of the most astounding exercises in self-debunking I have ever seen.

[grandmastershek]

too many to list.


but my fav is a guy i know in real life. it's been 10 months and he still thinks free fall is a speed. and just when he thought he had it, he started saying "accelerated free fall"; as if there is an unaccelerated free fall. now he's just back to calling it free fall speed.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

That "No Planes" were involved, but thousands managed see & hear the planes with their eyes & ears.

That "holograms" were used to disguise "missiles".

That Flight 93 was "shot down" near Shanksville, PA. (I live 20 miles North of the town & Flt. 93 wasn't "shot down". At Johnstown Airport, we only got Apache Helicopters & even they wouldn't have brought down Flt. 93, due to the fact that they fly slow to catch a plane going 500 mph. Beat that Truthers!)

You all know the rest! :)

[RedIbis]

I suppose RedIbis is right about one thing: this is also untrue. All fires in all structures cause thermal expansion. Other than some extremely exotic materials, any form of heating of any kind of structure causes thermal expansion. The belief among truthers that thermal expansion was made up by NIST is one of the most bizarre developments in the sorry saga of 9/11 truth.

Dave

Dave, Dave, Dave, semantics and strawmen are no way to have a civil discussion. Who said that NIST made up thermal expansion?

What's being questioned (I can't believe how many times I have to say this) is that thermal expansion causes column collapse and then column collapse causes global collapse.

But I can see why you want to avoid defending these unsupported claims.

[Oystein]

Dave, Dave, Dave, semantics and strawmen are no way to have a civil discussion. Who said that NIST made up thermal expansion?

What's being questioned (I can't believe how many times I have to say this) is that thermal expansion causes column collapse and then column collapse causes global collapse.

But I can see why you want to avoid defending these unsupported claims.

Do you have an alternative theory that explains all the known facts as well as the NIST model, and is better supported?

We're dying to hear it!


If you don't have any such theory, is it then fair to say that your personal incredulity about the NIST model is no better supported than the model itself?

[BigAl]

Dave, Dave, Dave, semantics and strawmen are no way to have a civil discussion. Who said that NIST made up thermal expansion?

What's being questioned (I can't believe how many times I have to say this) is that thermal expansion causes column collapse and then column collapse causes global collapse.

But I can see why you want to avoid defending these unsupported claims.

You could start by understanding what NIST said, not what you think they said. For starters, they didn't claim that the failure of a column initiated the collapse of WTC7.

[RedIbis]

NIST used a rather sophisticated sytem of programs (FDS and FIS, IIRC) to predict the steel/concrete temps. This takes into account all factors like fire location and duration in any location as it moved about the floor, SFRM insulation, office compartmentization, etc.


You have no more way of knowing how NIST calculated the failure modes as anyone else. It's not available to you, so you must take it as a matter of faith.

[funk de fino]

Dave, Dave, Dave, semantics and strawmen are no way to have a civil discussion. Who said that NIST made up thermal expansion?

What's being questioned (I can't believe how many times I have to say this) is that thermal expansion causes column collapse and then column collapse causes global collapse.

But I can see why you want to avoid defending these unsupported claims.

Yet again you have proved you have not even read the WTC7 report. This is too funny.

[Grizzly Bear]

Isn't there also something referred to as flash point, or ignition point which establishes a minimum temperature at which materials begin to, and sustain combustion? Something similar to the whole issue of why windows shatter (http://www.doctorfire.com/glass.html) in many building fires...

[Seymour Butz]

You have no more way of knowing how NIST calculated the failure modes as anyone else. It's not available to you, so you must take it as a matter of faith.

What are you babbling about?

NIST explicitly describes the failure mode.

[triforcharity]

Isn't there also something referred to as flash point, or ignition point which establishes a minimum temperature at which materials begin to, and sustain combustion? Something similar to the whole issue of why windows shatter (http://www.doctorfire.com/glass.html) in many building fires...

Yes, also know as their ignition point. All flammable materials have an ignition point. Suprisingly, paper has one of the highest of common materials. Plastic in general light at a lower temp than paper.

Suprising? Yes. True though.
http://www.economypoint.org/i/ignition-temperature.html

Here is a neat little link I love to use.

http://webbook.nist.gov/

[chippy]

I once called into a conspiracy theorist radio show because they were getting all cocky about how they're right and the skeptics are wrong. By far the dumbest thing I heard was another caller who said that someone ran a test where they dropped a bowling ball through all these sheets of glass and timed it, and apparently it was longer than the time it took for the twin towers to collapse, so doesn't that prove a conspiracy? And the two hosts, after hearing the question, were totally on board with it. Comparing the collapse of one of the most intricately-designed buildings in the world with a bowling ball breaking through glass. I believe this is where I say lol.

[Dave Rogers]

Dave, Dave, Dave, semantics and strawmen are no way to have a civil discussion.

Neither is convenient amnesia.

Dave

[bill smith]

I have an anecdote from the other side just for the balance.

This one always makes me laugh. It was about how small the fires really were in the Towers. I dropped a little bait by remarking that 'those fires could have been knocked down with two lines' Of course they puffed up their feathers and piled in saying how ridiculous that was and that the fires were massive. Grizzly was frantically waving his arms and warning them in the background to no avail ? I guess the PM's were flying too. Sigh....I really enjoyed hitting them between the eyes with the live audio of the fire chief on the 78th floor saying that ' there were only two isolated pockets of fire that they could knock down with two lines'

Grizzly seemed to get really mad when I said 'Good fishing today, eh Grizzly ' or words to that effect. There have been many such memorable occasions.

[SanityGap]

What's being questioned (I can't believe how many times I have to say this) is that thermal expansion causes column collapse and then column collapse causes global collapse.

But I can see why you want to avoid defending these unsupported claims.

Thermal expansion PLUS the fact that the yield strength of steel drops off dramatically at elevated temperatures. Over 800c it is reduced by 90%.

[Bell]

I have an anecdote from the other side just for the balance.

This one always makes me laugh. It was about how small the fires really were in the Towers. I dropped a little bait by remarking that 'those fires could have been knocked down with two lines' Of course they puffed up their feathers and piled in saying how ridiculous that was and that the fires were massive. Grizzly was frantically waving his arms and warning them in the background to no avail ? I guess the PM's were flying too. Sigh....I really enjoyed hitting them between the eyes with the live audio of the fire chief on the 78th floor saying that ' there were only two isolated pockets of fire that they could knock down with two lines'

Grizzly seemed to get really mad when I said 'Good fishing today, eh Grizzly ' or words to that effect. There have been many such memorable occasions.

Could you possibly locate the 78th floor for me?

[Oystein]

I have an anecdote from the other side just for the balance.

This one always makes me laugh. It was about how small the fires really were in the Towers. I dropped a little bait by remarking that 'those fires could have been knocked down with two lines' Of course they puffed up their feathers and piled in saying how ridiculous that was and that the fires were massive. Grizzly was frantically waving his arms and warning them in the background to no avail ? I guess the PM's were flying too. Sigh....I really enjoyed hitting them between the eyes with the live audio of the fire chief on the 78th floor saying that ' there were only two isolated pockets of fire that they could knock down with two lines'

Grizzly seemed to get really mad when I said 'Good fishing today, eh Grizzly ' or words to that effect. There have been many such memorable occasions.

Hehe

That one is pretty high on my list of truther stupidities.
I mean truthers misconstruing a statement about local conditions (78th floor, well below impact zone and the several floors that were heavily engulfed in massive fires) as being representative of overall conditions.

[Dave Rogers]

Ah yes, the classic truther stupidity of assuming that Oreo Palmer could see every floor of the South Tower from inside the 78th floor, and that his report that there were two isolated pockets of fire on the 78th floor therefore meant that there were no other fires on the 79th, 80th, 81st, 82nd,....

Poor bill smith, poster-boy for the Dunning-Kroeger effect. Even when he tries to be clever he ends up making himself look stupid.

Dave

[BigAl]

Hehe

That one is pretty high on my list of truther stupidities.
I mean truthers misconstruing a statement about local conditions (78th floor, well below impact zone and the several floors that were heavily engulfed in massive fires) as being representative of overall conditions.

Whenever What's-His-Name posts this crap I see 343 firemen crammed into one stairwell where they all died.

[bill smith]

Delete:

[excaza]

Jeez...It was only an anecdote for God's sake .I thought we were just sharing a few chuckles here..How defensive you all are.....Well maybe I would be too if I were you...lol

You were trying to be clever. It didn't work.

[Edx]

Stundie - arguing with Stundie is the most stupid truther Ive ever encountered.

Bill is a runner up though, it was a tough choice.

[Furcifer]

Anyone remember "net force = zero"?

Yes, I adopted him. I found him wandering around YouTube and brought him here. Good times.

Coincidentally Anders seems to be spouting a refined form of "in free fall, net force = zero"

It's goin viral! :D

[bill smith]

You were trying to be clever. It didn't work.

That's a very interesting minimum ten-minute delay between me deleting my post and you quoting the full text of it.

How would that work now with single poster-single reply ? It's odd isn't it ?

I can't imagine any normal poster taking ten minutes over such an inane reply either

Looks like I have another interesting anecdote for the future...

[TheRedWorm]

Maybe he quoted it, started to reply, but had something else to attend to? I routinely do that...

[bill smith]

You were trying to be clever. It didn't work.

That's a very interesting minimum ten-minute delay between me deleting my post and you quoting the full text of it.

How would that work now with single poster-single reply ? It's odd isn't it ?

I can't imagine any normal poster taking ten minutes over such an inane reply either

Looks like I have another interesting anecdote for the future...

[MikeW]

Truthers aren't stupid. They know when they're spreading fictions. They just don't care.

[Grizzly Bear]

Hehe

That one is pretty high on my list of truther stupidities.
I mean truthers misconstruing a statement about local conditions (78th floor, well below impact zone and the several floors that were heavily engulfed in massive fires) as being representative of overall conditions.

Looks like bills also having a few imaginary conversations going by the quote... I've had the guy on ignore for more than a year.

[excaza]

That's a very interesting minimum ten-minute delay between me deleting my post and you quoting the full text of it.

How would that work now with single poster-single reply ? It's odd isn't it ?

I can't imagine any normal poster taking ten minutes over such an inane reply either

Looks like I have another interesting anecdote for the future...

I was agonizing and agonizing over my reply, I wanted to make sure it was just right.

Actually I just got distracted, I'll be sure to ask your permission before replying next time. Let's hope your future anecdotes aren't as braindead as your last one.


I was agonizing and agonizing over my reply, I wanted to make sure it was just right.

Actually I just got distracted, I'll be sure to ask your permission before replying next time. Let's hope your future anecdotes aren't as braindead as your last one.

[bill smith]

I was agonizing and agonizing over my reply, I wanted to make sure it was just right.

Actually I just got distracted, I'll be sure to ask your permission before replying next time. Let's hope your future anecdotes aren't as braindead as your last one.


I was agonizing and agonizing over my reply, I wanted to make sure it was just right.

Actually I just got distracted, I'll be sure to ask your permission before replying next time. Let's hope your future anecdotes aren't as braindead as your last one.

I see ole'Red Worm was able to exactly predict what happened. Pretty good Red.. And there was me thinking that you are probably one of the professional bloggers who work for the Pentagon. ''Propaganda assets'' they call you I believe. (If you were one that is)

[excaza]

I see ole'Red Worm was able to exactly predict what happened. Pretty good Red.. And there was me thinking that you are probably one of the professional bloggers who work for the Pentagon. ''Propaganda assets'' they call you I believe. (If you were one that is)

Nice to see you're keeping it sane.

[Furcifer]

Looks like bills also having a few imaginary conversations going by the quote... I've had the guy on ignore for more than a year.

Wow, I just took him off ignore like 20 minutes ago. I thought something was being directed at me and I noticed good ol' bill smith's name and remembered I had him on ignore.

Doesn't look like we missed much.

[bill smith]

Nice to see you're keeping it sane.

Do you want fairly extensive data on cointelpro that includes such bloggers as I describe ?

[bill smith]

Wow, I just took him off ignore like 20 minutes ago. I thought something was being directed at me and I noticed good ol' bill smith's name and remembered I had him on ignore.

Doesn't look like we missed much.

Well hello there and goodbye again. Missing you already.

[Dog Town]

Do you want fairly extensive data on cointelpro that includes such bloggers as I describe ?

Please do, and make sure it's exactly, as you describe!
I love a good laugh!

[bill smith]

Please do, and make sure it's exactly, as you describe!
I love a good laugh!

I wasn't talking to you.

[KDLarsen]

The 9/11 section of the ATS forums. Jesus H. Christ, the ignorance is so thick you could cut through it with a plastic knife, which incidently is what I believe a large number of those posters are limited to use for their daily consumption at the psych ward.

[Dog Town]

I wasn't talking to you.

Dodge, for lack of evidence, noted!


Priceless!

[switchpoint]

The 9/11 section of the ATS forums. Jesus H. Christ, the ignorance is so thick you could cut through it with a plastic knife, which incidently is what I believe a large number of those posters are limited to use for their daily consumption at the psych ward.

Are you kidding? That's my favorite place!! I just had a twoofer laughing at me because I was "dumb" enough to suggest that an airplane is a solid object! (I think it may actually be a sock for Killtown as he/she is obsessed with Flight 93 crater).

We also have a rep from Pfft posting home made charts that "prove" Flight 175 would have vaporized (slight hyperbole mine) into thin air when it exceeded some certain speed. The place is great, its like an intellectual amuzement park. All you have to do is suspend reason and objectivety for a little bit and enjoy the fantasy.:)

[bill smith]

Are you kidding? That's my favorite place!! I just had a twoofer laughing at me because I was "dumb" enough to suggest that an airplane is a solid object! (I think it may actually be a sock for Killtown as he/she is obsessed with Flight 93 crater).

We also have a rep from Pfft posting home made charts that "prove" Flight 175 would have vaporized (slight hyperbole mine) into thin air when it exceeded some certain speed. The place is great, its like an intellectual amuzement park. All you have to do is suspend reason and objectivety for a little bit and enjoy the fantasy.:)

Do you want to provide a link so that we can check the accuracy of your remarks ? If not we will understand.

[switchpoint]

Do you want to provide a link so that we can check the accuracy of your remarks ? If not we will understand.

You need me to post a link so that you can find ATS? Really, just google above top secret forum. There's a thread about a NASA scientist and one thread about shanksville and flight 93, they are near the top.

Have fun!

[Sword_Of_Truth]

You want classic truther stupidity? How about the celebrity truther who repeatedly stayed up all night surfing truther websites and internet porn while this was waiting for him in the bedroom:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/Kilstryke/denise_richards.jpg

[Bell]

You want classic truther stupidity? How about the celebrity truther who repeatedly stayed up all night surfing truther websites and internet porn while this was waiting for him in the bedroom:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/Kilstryke/denise_richards.jpg

Boom chicka wah wah!

[djlunacee]

You want classic truther stupidity? How about the celebrity truther who repeatedly stayed up all night surfing truther websites and internet porn while this was waiting for him in the bedroom:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/Kilstryke/denise_richards.jpg

ding ding ding ding ding, we have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dog Town]

If not we will understand.
You must have a mouse in your pocket!:D

[KDLarsen]

We also have a rep from Pfft posting home made charts that "prove" Flight 175 would have vaporized (slight hyperbole mine) into thin air when it exceeded some certain speed. The place is great, its like an intellectual amuzement park. All you have to do is suspend reason and objectivety for a little bit and enjoy the fantasy.:)
Yeah, I continue to be amazed at that thread. Not to mention how a P-51 chart is apparently also valid for a Boeing 767 :boggled:

Also, I like how "Tiffany" keeps dodging the remarks that "she" is really one of Balsamo's socks.

[fess]

Hey, would you guys knock off all of this nonsensical crap for a moment, and get down to something with importance; like post # 93.:)

[djlunacee]

Hey, would you guys knock off all of this nonsensical crap for a moment, and get down to something with importance; like post # 93.:)

It has my attention...of course in Jammonious' world this would be a hologram

[triforcharity]

You want classic truther stupidity? How about the celebrity truther who repeatedly stayed up all night surfing truther websites and internet porn while this was waiting for him in the bedroom:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/Kilstryke/denise_richards.jpg

That doesn't make him stupid, that makes him gay.

[triforcharity]

It has my attention...of course in Jammonious' world this would be a hologram

Can you prove she is real? No videos that show her in real life though, as they could be just "blobby things"......:D

[WildCat]

Yeah, I continue to be amazed at that thread. Not to mention how a P-51 chart is apparently also valid for a Boeing 767 :boggled:

Also, I like how "Tiffany" keeps dodging the remarks that "she" is really one of Balsamo's socks.
Balsamo's pretending to be a girl now?

:dl:

[Titanic Explorer]

I caught another Truther debate online- A Truther dismissing the no-planers as being idiots asserted what really happened was that the planes 'were being flown by remote control'. Their proof?......nothing
The no planers and the remote controllers both deserve their own medal of stupidity...

[djlunacee]

Can you prove she is real? No videos that show her in real life though, as they could be just "blobby things"......:D

Don't ruin my fantasy...but let me see, the research....hmmm, really now like any of us need an excuse to watch Wild Things, again, as if...I believe I might have had to put the laptop away.

[240-185]

We said "inside job", not "blowjob" :D

[Bell]

We said "inside job", not "blowjob" :D

No no no, Sheen was giving an inside job :boxedin:

[switchpoint]

Yeah, I continue to be amazed at that thread. Not to mention how a P-51 chart is apparently also valid for a Boeing 767 :boggled:

Also, I like how "Tiffany" keeps dodging the remarks that "she" is really one of Balsamo's socks.

Oh, its actually better than that. He-she is insisting that all these diagrams are pretty much universal, all you need to do is go to the X axis, input the velocity numbers you need to prove your point and POOOF! instant facts! He-she presents him/herself as an aviation "expert" but can't seem to get any more info than I can when I google "Vg diagram". It is soooo funny.

[djlunacee]

No no no, Sheen was giving an inside job :boxedin:

Regardless, I have to say beyond a shadow of a doubt, Sheen was asleep on the job.

[Fonebone]

Do you want fairly extensive data on cointelpro that includes such bloggers as I describe ?

Fonebone < I would like to view the "data" on pentagon cointelpro.

I was under the impression most boil-sucking and was subcontracted to
PR outfits.
'......then they (Iraqi soldiers) threw the babies onto the cold concrete floor to die and stole their incubators ' ....

paraphrased from a Hill and Knowlton docudrama that created the outrage used to inveigle the
American public into supporting the stampede to liberate Kuwait

[Dog Town]

Balsamo's pretending to be a girl now?

:dl:

Capt. Boobie, pretending to be something he knows very little about? Sounds about right. I'll give him this, at least he's consistent!



Priceless.

[Titanic Explorer]

How widespread in trutherworld is the theory that the planes that hit the towers were being flown by remote control- and how on earth did Truthers come up with that fruitcake theory?

[Bell]

How widespread in trutherworld is the theory that the planes that hit the towers were being flown by remote control- and how on earth did Truthers come up with that fruitcake theory?

Remote control is the middle ground between the real word and the bat crap crazy missiles and holograms.

[Titanic Explorer]

Remote control is the middle ground between the real word and the bat crap crazy missiles and holograms.

Do they have proof that the planes were being flown by remote control?
Oh wait a minute, we're talking about truthers.....never mind
In their world view, the LACK of proof is in itself proof.

[Stellafane]

Hmm...the answer to the OP kind of depends on how precisely one defines "stupid." For example, consider the "Realistice" thread, perhaps the greatest vein of truther hilarity ever. However, it wasn't just stupid; as Pardalis points out it was also insane. Thus it falls into sort of a hybrid category "stupid/insane," along with the likes of Judy Woods, no-planers, CIT, and that ilk.

Then there's "stupid/offensive," as in things that aren't just stupid, they are massively insulting. Examples of this include those that believe the FDNY was in on it, that the 9/11 victims didn't exist, Killtown's body of "work," ad nauseum.

So it's kind of a challenge to come up with something that's simply pure, unadulterated stupid. After thinking about it a while, I think it's hard to top the story that some of the terrorists on 9/11 were driving around the streets of NYC in a van with (and even years later, I can't believe I'm about to write the following), a van with a picture of an airliner crashing into the WTC painted on the side!!!

[bill smith]

Hmm...the answer to the OP kind of depends on how precisely one defines "stupid." For example, consider the "Realistice" thread, perhaps the greatest vein of truther hilarity ever. However, it wasn't just stupid; as Pardalis points out it was also insane. Thus it falls into sort of a hybrid category "stupid/insane," along with the likes of Judy Woods, no-planers, CIT, and that ilk.

Then there's "stupid/offensive," as in things that aren't just stupid, they are massively insulting. Examples of this include those that believe the FDNY was in on it, that the 9/11 victims didn't exist, Killtown's body of "work," ad nauseum.

So it's kind of a challenge to come up with something that's simply pure, unadulterated stupid. After thinking about it a while, I think it's hard to top the story that some of the terrorists on 9/11 were driving around the streets of NYC in a van with (and even years later, I can't believe I'm about to write the following), a van with a picture of an airliner crashing into the WTC painted on the side!!!

This one you mean ?

http://www.whale.to/b/mm6dlz.jpg

[Sword_Of_Truth]

So it's kind of a challenge to come up with something that's simply pure, unadulterated stupid. After thinking about it a while, I think it's hard to top the story that some of the terrorists on 9/11 were driving around the streets of NYC in a van with (and even years later, I can't believe I'm about to write the following), a van with a picture of an airliner crashing into the WTC painted on the side!!!

U-Haul is known for having famous landscapes painted on their vans, like the Grand Canyon, the Hollywood sign and so forth. I believe they used to have one of the old New York skyline with an airplane flying over it.

The stupid isn't claiming it existed, the stupid is not understanding that there's nothing wrong with it.

This one you mean ?

http://www.whale.to/b/mm6dlz.jpg

Nice photoshop there, Billy.

Are you seriously putting that up as evidence for the claim?

[bill smith]

U-Haul is known for having famous landscapes painted on their vans, like the Grand Canyon, the Hollywood sign and so forth. I believe they used to have one of the old New York skyline with an airplane flying over it.

The stupid isn't claiming it existed, the stupid is not understanding that there's nothing wrong with it.



Nice photoshop there, Billy.

Are you seriously putting that up as evidence for the claim?

You mean that you don't recognise a pet goat tied to a stake when you see one ?

I told you before. You didn't really think that those conspiracy theories got started without help do you ?

[DGM]

You mean that you don't recognise a pet goat tied to a stake when you see one ?

I told you before. You didn't really think that those conspiracy theories got started without help do you ?
No, The were started by propaganda artist like you. Stop spreading lies.

[bill smith]

No, The were started by propaganda artist like you. Stop spreading lies.
This is a bit like soccer. I have my own personal marker. My own personal 'propaganda asset'. I should be flattered. Only kidding. lol

[Sword_Of_Truth]

You didn't really think that those conspiracy theories got started without help do you ?

Yes, I do.

[bill smith]

Yes, I do.

Well like George Bush said. ' Keep the Faith '

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Well like George Bush said. ' Keep the Faith '

With 2 million+ engineers, 11,000 New York Firefighters, dozens of peer-reviewed articles and reams of laboratory test data on our side, "faith" is not the word for it.

[bill smith]

With 2 million+ engineers, 11,000 New York Firefighters, dozens of peer-reviewed articles and reams of laboratory test data on our side, "faith" is not the word for it.

You don't have to be so defensive...

[TheRedWorm]

I think it appropriate that B.S. is posting in this thread.

[Titanic Explorer]

Another classic Truther stupidism is the mantra 'Bush did it'.
They accused Pres GW Bush of being too stupid to tie his own shoes, but then they accuse him of having masterminded a massive conspiracy. The 'Bush did it' Truthers tend to be the far left Truthers, and they are just as moronic as the far right Truthers.

[funk de fino]

This thread

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=180570


Especially some of the "thermite is the only........." posts

[bill smith]

Another classic Truther stupidism is the mantra 'Bush did it'.
They accused Pres GW Bush of being too stupid to tie his own shoes, but then they accuse him of having masterminded a massive conspiracy. The 'Bush did it' Truthers tend to be the far left Truthers, and they are just as moronic as the far right Truthers.

It's a pity in some ways that he was not convicted of that rape in 2002. Then we could just let him serve out his sentence.

Surely you all remember ? I mean how could something like that not be discussed at every breakfast table in America. The president....accused of rape..Filed with the Police and all..Girl shoots herself in the head..Story goes away...Anybody wanna say it's just Truther stupidity ?

I guess that's a 'no'...

[TheRedWorm]

And that means........what, that Bush is capable of rigging the towers to collapse at the exact floor that planes hit them?

[cantonear1968]

This is so weird because I was just today thinking of starting a thread for this very topic!

Thanks Titanic!

I've got 2. One guy said that "they" mistakenly shot down flight 93, which was scheduled to hit WTC7, so that's why they had to rig it for demolition on the fly, thus explaining Silverstein's "pull it" comment!

And...

I was having a debate with a truther (not much of one since he hand waved past everything and "govt lies' was his only response) when he made the claim that Tupac Shakur and Notorious B.I.G. were members of and killed by the Illuminati (who of course planned everything) because they were going to expose this super secret society.

Tupac and Biggie!!

I'm having a hard time believing him since this is so incredibly out there, but I have no reason to think he is anything but genuinely delusional!

Now off to read the others!

[Titanic Explorer]

This is so weird because I was just today thinking of starting a thread for this very topic!

Thanks Titanic!

I've got 2. One guy said that "they" mistakenly shot down flight 93, which was scheduled to hit WTC7, so that's why they had to rig it for demolition on the fly, thus explaining Silverstein's "pull it" comment!

And...

I was having a debate with a truther (not much of one since he hand waved past everything and "govt lies' was his only response) when he made the claim that Tupac Shakur and Notorious B.I.G. were members of and killed by the Illuminati (who of course planned everything) because they were going to expose this super secret society.

Tupac and Biggie!!

I'm having a hard time believing him since this is so incredibly out there, but I have no reason to think he is anything but genuinely delusional!

Now off to read the others!



Do they have proof?

[fess]

It's a pity in some ways that he was not convicted of that rape in 2002. Then we could just let him serve out his sentence.

Surely you all remember ? I mean how could something like that not be discussed at every breakfast table in America. The president....accused of rape..Filed with the Police and all..Girl shoots herself in the head..Story goes away...Anybody wanna say it's just Truther stupidity ?

I guess that's a 'no'...

And, this has what to do with 9/11? Or maybe you are suggesting that Bush thought he got away with mass murder, so he decided to try rape also? Did you get this from reading the ilk from Icke’s forum, or is it just more of your BS… B.S.?

Perhaps if you did actually research something, you would have found this passage from the courthouse documents;
“Sugar Land Police Department Captain Marcaurele said his department has no record of any complaints by Ms. Margie Schoedinger. Several attempts were made to contact Ms Schoedinger, she never returned any calls.”

[cantonear1968]

Do they have proof?

Proof?

From a truther?

Are you kidding?

That almost got included in this thread!

Cheers!

[cantonear1968]

I just remembered another one! The guy, and help me with name, who thought a million thermite tiles were installed in the WTC Towers!

Did he ever figure out how thermite was supposed to burn up!?

[Dog Town]

It's a pity in some ways that he was not convicted of that rape in 2002. Then we could just let him serve out his sentence.

Another fine twoofer example of, lock'em up and throw away the key, with ZERO evidence. Glad da Twoof "Movement" is tiny. Having any of those Stalinist nuts in charge of anything, would suck!

PS
You must be charged, and tried, to be convicted! But don't let that bother you, Jo'

[bill smith]

And, this has what to do with 9/11? Or maybe you are suggesting that Bush thought he got away with mass murder, so he decided to try rape also? Did you get this from reading the ilk from Icke’s forum, or is it just more of your BS… B.S.?

Perhaps if you did actually research something, you would have found this passage from the courthouse documents;

No this is just stuff I came across myself. What a disgusting family of snakes the Bushes are. No better man to carry out 9/11 than George W if you ask me.

Here's a few links on the subject though you and your collegues here will propaganda this away in no time. That is the nature of propaganda I guess..

http://www.truthalliance.net/Portals/0/Archive/Community%20Article%20Images/Detail5.jpg

http://www.thoughtcrimenews.com/bushrape.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH9hgiX5L_A video

[Titanic Explorer]

No this is just stuff I came across myself. What a disgusting family of snakes the Bushes are. No better man to carry out 9/11 than George W if you ask me.

Here's a few links on the subject though you and your collegues here will propaganda this away in no time. That is the nature of propaganda I guess..

http://www.truthalliance.net/Portals/0/Archive/Community%20Article%20Images/Detail5.jpg

http://www.thoughtcrimenews.com/bushrape.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH9hgiX5L_A video


Bush had nothing the do with 9/11. Only far left loons think he ordered 9/11.

[Unsecured Coins]

Killtown took offense to my quickie on Jesse Ventura when I said Ventura should stop calling himself a SEAl by posting a remark left at (in his words) the OFFICIAL SEAL SITE that had his name listed.

proving that reading comprehension and trutherness don't mix... he failed to notice the disclaimer at the bottom of the page


NavySEALs.com is a private web community of SEA Air Land athletes and Navy SEAL supporters.

It is not affiliated with the US Navy. The views expressed here are solely those of the owners, and members, of NavySEALs.com

[Dog Town]

Killtown
Where is that (I see faces in the smoke) nutjob these days?

[Unsecured Coins]

Hell if I know. Ain't my day to watch him

[triforcharity]

Hell if I know. Ain't my day to watch him

Last I heard of Killtown was on some obscure Daily Show forum IIRC.

BTW, I don't know what the F that thinng is in your avatar, but I love it. Cracks me up!!

PS. I think it's TruthersLie's turn. He got the short straw yesterday at the weekly NWO BBQ.

[Unsecured Coins]

Fizgig

[CompusMentus]

Killtown took offense to my quickie on Jesse Ventura when I said Ventura should stop calling himself a SEAl by posting a remark left at (in his words) the OFFICIAL SEAL SITE that had his name listed.
proving that reading comprehension and trutherness don't mix... he failed to notice the disclaimer at the bottom of the page


Killtown certainly wasn't at home when the bags of brains were handed out.

I always remember this:- "Killtowns 250 Smoking Guns" (http://killtown.911review.org/911smokingguns.html).

I love how, by definition, the need for a second "smoking gun" must negate the preceding one from number one and way on down through the list. A "smoking gun", of course, stands on it's own merit.

The abject failure of many 9-11 fantasists to come up up with the one elusive fact that blows open the 9-11 "case" after all these years is illuminating. Time to call it a day I think.

Compus

[Titanic Explorer]

Where is that (I see faces in the smoke) nutjob these days?

Is that one of the religious nuts who claimed to see the face of Satan in the smoke billowing from the WTC?

[The Platypus]

It's a pity in some ways that he was not convicted of that rape in 2002. Then we could just let him serve out his sentence.

Surely you all remember ? I mean how could something like that not be discussed at every breakfast table in America. The president....accused of rape..Filed with the Police and all..Girl shoots herself in the head..Story goes away...Anybody wanna say it's just Truther stupidity ?

I guess that's a 'no'...

It's just truther stupidity.

[bill smith]

It's just truther stupidity.

See hyperlink for 100% confirmation.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6140891&postcount=135 hyperlink

[Bell]

Is that one of the religious nuts who claimed to see the face of Satan in the smoke billowing from the WTC?

Killtown is an anti semite and a bastard who apparently turned his life's goal into making Val McClatchey's life miserable. Val McClatchey took the famous photo "End of Serenity" of the smoke plume of the UA93 crash.

[Oystein]

See hyperlink for 100% confirmation.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6140891&postcount=135 hyperlink

Confirmation of what - that a certain lady made a big claim, provided no evidence, but hoped to collect a cool 50,000,000 US$?

Oh by the way, Angela Merkel raped me when I was a minor.
How about that?

[Miragememories]

I see the witch hunt never ends.

MM

[cantonear1968]

I just remembered another one! The guy, and help me with name, who thought a million thermite tiles were installed in the WTC Towers!

Did he ever figure out how thermite was supposed to burn up!?

Just remembered. Jim Hoffman.

[Captain_Swoop]

Claiming that no aircraft were involved is the most stupid thing I have seen anywhere!
Not supporting the stupid claim is the second most stupid thing.

Before making a claim like that you would think they would have their ducks in a line.

[bill smith]

Confirmation of what - that a certain lady made a big claim, provided no evidence, but hoped to collect a cool 50,000,000 US$?

Oh by the way, Angela Merkel raped me when I was a minor.
How about that?

It's always interesting to watch the media in situations like this. You quickly learn that they are part of the problem these days and not part of the solution. You probably don't even know that Bush and his pals were served with a murder writ in 2004 by among others 400 9/11 family members .

Or is that another example of Truther stupidity ? 04:00 tick-tock-tick-tock....

[Captain_Swoop]

BTW, I don't know what the F that thinng is in your avatar, but I love it. Cracks me up!! .

Fizzgig from the Dark Crystal

[bill smith]

Just remembered. Jim Hoffman.

I think Jim thinks that the Pentagon was a set up the same as I do. A honeypot to attract conspiracy theories. I think I read somewhere that he thinks there may have been a real 757 with explosives fitted to blow any of the large parts like the tail to pieces on impact.

[Dog Town]

See post above this one, #153!

[fess]

No this is just stuff I came across myself. What a disgusting family of snakes the Bushes are. No better man to carry out 9/11 than George W if you ask me.

Here's a few links on the subject though you and your collegues here will propaganda this away in no time. That is the nature of propaganda I guess..

http://www.truthalliance.net/Portals/0/Archive/Community%20Article%20Images/Detail5.jpg

http://www.thoughtcrimenews.com/bushrape.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH9hgiX5L_A video

http://www.newnation.org/

Just a quick look at this “credible” news website should tell you a lot about why this story died a quick and painless death. Here is the description of the above news source;

“Racist 'online' news paper catering to white people.”

I must say B.S., if this is the type of “news” you read, some may question your research practices, not to mention your level of intelligence.

[fess]

I think Jim thinks that the Pentagon was a set up the same as I do. A honeypot to attract conspiracy theories. I think I read somewhere that he thinks there may have been a real 757 with explosives fitted to blow any of the large parts like the tail to pieces on impact.

And, not one of the aircraft maintenance crew would have noticed any of the explosives?

[Unsecured Coins]

And, not one of the aircraft maintenance crew would have noticed any of the explosives?

they were paid off... duh

[excaza]

I think Jim thinks that the Pentagon was a set up the same as I do. A honeypot to attract conspiracy theories. I think I read somewhere that he thinks there may have been a real 757 with explosives fitted to blow any of the large parts like the tail to pieces on impact.

What possible reason would there be to fake a plane crash, then blow up everything that makes it look like a plane crash? That's just stupid.

[bill smith]

http://www.newnation.org/

Just a quick look at this “credible” news website should tell you a lot about why this story died a quick and painless death. Here is the description of the above news source;

“Racist 'online' news paper catering to white people.”

I must say B.S., if this is the type of “news” you read, some may question your research practices, not to mention your level of intelligence.
Sure...be skeptical. But there is more than enough evidence there that tells you that the story is true.I never turned down a news source in my life by the way. I am usually able to tell what is what without rejecting an article by looking at the cover as seems to be the way in America.

[Titanic Explorer]

Killtown is an anti semite and a bastard who apparently turned his life's goal into making Val McClatchey's life miserable. Val McClatchey took the famous photo "End of Serenity" of the smoke plume of the UA93 crash.

From what i've seen, most Truthers are anti semite bastards

[bill smith]

From what i've seen, most Truthers are anti semite bastards
Who mentions Jews the most on the jref ? Debunkers or Truthers ?

[ShadowSot]

Who mentions Jews the most on the jref ? Debunkers or Truthers ?

Well since there are more "Debunkers" than "Truthers", and many Truthers do mention Jews, which prompt the Debunkers to mention them in response...

So... yeah.

[fess]

Sure...be skeptical. But there is more than enough evidence there that tells you that the story is true.I never turned down a news source in my life by the way. I am usually able to tell what is what without rejecting an article by looking at the cover as seems to be the way in America.

Please B.S., stop trying to prove that you are dumber than a broken brick. Your imbecilic, half-witted statements have certainly convinced me.
You call me a skeptic and claim that I only looked at the “cover”; well that is just another lie from a proven ****off. I posted the link to the web site, why don’t you read it and report back to everyone about the content…

[bill smith]

Please B.S., stop trying to prove that you are dumber than a broken brick. Your imbecilic, half-witted statements have certainly convinced me.
You call me a skeptic and claim that I only looked at the “cover”; well that is just another lie from a proven ****off. I posted the link to the web site, why don’t you read it and report back to everyone about the content…

Hmmm...I don't think I'll bother. You can post the links amd show people...if you dare of course. Watch this space folks.

[triforcharity]

Claiming that no aircraft were involved is the most stupid thing I have seen anywhere!
Not supporting the stupid claim is the second most stupid thing.

Before making a claim like that you would think they would have their ducks in a line.

Not to take away from the stupidity of No Planers, but the VicSim report, I my opinion, takes the cake. Not only on stupidity, but on the repulsive value too.

It would be better to just watch Unsecured Coins' video on the VicSim report here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KypRnzVcGus

Warning, NSFW language.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

You probably don't even know that Bush and his pals were served with a murder writ in 2004 by among others 400 9/11 family members .

It's sad that you believe that actually happened.

[TSR]

I posted the link to the web site, why don’t you read it and report back to everyone about the content…


You can post the links amd show people...if you dare of course. Watch this space folks.

.
BS: Read these two quotes and see if you can spot the problem...
.

[babazaroni]

There's a guy in an ongoing thread who says he is an engineer and claims that a YouTube video shows mathematically that the WTC towers should have taken a minimum of 42 seconds to collapse.

Here's the thread: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1199984&msg=1219184#msg1219184

And here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_j1jAv1j3U

He's quite persistent. I'm sure the engineers here could have much fun with him.

[The Platypus]

See hyperlink for 100% confirmation.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6140891&postcount=135 hyperlink

All you have shown is 100% confirmation that you believe every nutjob with a nutjob story on the internet without question.

Of course from lurking and reading your posts on this forum, I already knew that about you.

[triforcharity]

There's a guy in an ongoing thread who says he is an engineer and claims that a YouTube video shows mathematically that the WTC towers should have taken a minimum of 42 seconds to collapse.

Here's the thread: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1199984&msg=1219184#msg1219184

And here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_j1jAv1j3U

He's quite persistent. I'm sure the engineers here could have much fun with him.

Let me guess, "Clunkity-clunk?"

[fess]

Hmmm...I don't think I'll bother. You can post the links amd show people...if you dare of course. Watch this space folks.

So, you will use a web site as a resource to prove that Bush is guilty of rape, but you won’t read the material on the site?
Hmmmm, yes, I think I do see a problem here… Thanks for proving that what I said about you is a fact!
Stay tuned folks, I'm sure he will prove me right again.

[Captain_Swoop]

Not to take away from the stupidity of No Planers, but the VicSim report, I my opinion, takes the cake. Not only on stupidity, but on the repulsive value too.

It would be better to just watch Unsecured Coins' video on the VicSim report here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KypRnzVcGus

Warning, NSFW language.

AAAAH! Why did you subject me to that?

Poking around the 'VicSim' sewage produced this gem
vicsim or mock vicsim (http://stevenwarran.blogspot.com/2009/10/police-officer-vincent-danz-vicsim-or.html)
He argues that a police officer he knows to be real and killed at Ground Zero is in fact alive and living under a new identity somewhere along with his colleagues!

[cantonear1968]

I think Jim thinks that the Pentagon was a set up the same as I do. A honeypot to attract conspiracy theories. I think I read somewhere that he thinks there may have been a real 757 with explosives fitted to blow any of the large parts like the tail to pieces on impact.

Bill, is that your submission for the finest examples of truther stupidity that you've ever encountered?

[Dave Rogers]

Bill, is that your submission for the finest examples of truther stupidity that you've ever encountered?

If it's not his, it's certainly one of mine. Hoffman's suggestion is that a Boeing 757 really did hit the Pentagon, but a missile was used to blow the tail off just before impact so that conspiracy theorists would note the absence of impact damage from the tail and thus deduce that something other than a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon, and this would be used to discredit conspiracy theorists, because it was perfectly obvious all along that a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon so nobody could possibly believe anything else. As a piece of convoluted illogic, it's so perfectly formed that it's almost impossible even to articulate it correctly and clearly. It's diamond-encrusted, platinum-plated 24-carat stupidity.

Dave

[bill smith]

I think that they had planned to blow away all the conspiracy theories en bloc by suddenly comng out at the strategic moment with incontrovertible video of the 757 hitting the Pentagon.

But then they had two connected forced errors that made it pointless to bring out the Pentagon video. And as we all know by now there are well devveloped theories for all the 9/11 events. To show the plane now would have zero effect on any other theory and probably be completely counterproductive for the perps.

Especially now that more and more people are seeing the Pentagon for the set up that it is. And now we can have a better look at how we were conditioned and set up.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I think that they had planned to blow away all the conspiracy theories en bloc by suddenly comng out at the strategic moment with incontrovertible video of the 757 hitting the Pentagon.

But then they had two connected forced errors that made it pointless to bring out the Pentagon video. And as we all know by now there are well devveloped theories for all the 9/11 events. To show the plane now would have zero effect on any other theory and probably be completely counterproductive for the perps.

Especially now that more and more people are seeing the Pentagon for the set up that it is. And now we can have a better look at how we were conditioned and set up.

Why do you need a video of Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon when they picked up parts of the plane inside & out of the building? Unless you think they "planted" the parts, then you're not thinking outside the paranoid box.

Are you still not getting the big picture Billy?

We all know that you just come to JREF to get your jollies off. What's the big deal Bill? We all know you're paranoid just like the rest of the looney tunes at 9/11 Truth.

[aggle-rithm]

I think it's interesting that whenever there is a thread about stupid things that truthers say, several truthers always jump in and add more stupid things to the pile.

[cantonear1968]

Arrgghhh!!!!

******** truthers!!!

I absolutely hate them!!

I'm having a debate and the guy tells me he can defeat my argument simply using NIST's own conclusions. So it's a mostly civil debate of quotes from NIST papers, mostly having to do with the UL tests and the SFRM "shot gun" tests, and I just get him to the point where I point out how he's misinterpreting the results, about how it's not one buck shot going through the buildings but millions of pieces in the debris path of the airplanes that is striking the fireproofed trusses and he comes back with this:

"Well, I would suggest you watch the impact videos of WTC 2 then... You state it was a million pieces yet we saw the planes winds (sic) go through the outer column like a hot knife through butter, and we saw the NOSE come out the other side, INTACT...

Where is that million pieces, I mean you can watch it and see that it is CGI edited, no wonder it gives people like me who try to wake others up, then it gives people like you who, basically take orders, like a slave..."
(bolding mine)

What are the finest examples of 9/ll Truther stupidity that [I've] ever encountered?

No Planers!
Without a doubt!
Definitely No planers!

[Captain_Swoop]

Truthers are like Apollo Hoax Proponents. they see the whole thing as lots of isoleted items and facts. They latch on to one thing that only works if you disregard lots of other things.

[cantonear1968]

If it's not his, it's certainly one of mine. Hoffman's suggestion is that a Boeing 757 really did hit the Pentagon, but a missile was used to blow the tail off just before impact so that conspiracy theorists would note the absence of impact damage from the tail and thus deduce that something other than a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon, and this would be used to discredit conspiracy theorists, because it was perfectly obvious all along that a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon so nobody could possibly believe anything else. As a piece of convoluted illogic, it's so perfectly formed that it's almost impossible even to articulate it correctly and clearly. It's diamond-encrusted, platinum-plated 24-carat stupidity.

Dave

Obviously on the lower level of conspracy theories, even for delusional truthers, because I had never heard that one before.

And Bill, you support this conclusion!?

(I'd like to leave a laughing dog, but I don't feel I have earned that right since I haven't posted here very much yet!)

[KingMerv00]

That's a very interesting minimum ten-minute delay between me deleting my post and you quoting the full text of it.

How would that work now with single poster-single reply ? It's odd isn't it ?

I can't imagine any normal poster taking ten minutes over such an inane reply either

Looks like I have another interesting anecdote for the future...

Holograms were probably involved.

[Fonebone]

Arrgghhh!!!!

******** truthers!!!

I absolutely hate them!!

No Planers!
Without a doubt!
Definitely No planers!

Fonebone is a " truther " and a " No planer "

Fonebone says the WTC2 murder weapon was a cruise missile disguised a a Boeing 767.

Would you like to go " toe to toe" with Fonebone and his cruise missile evidence ?

An ass is still an ass even though he wears a lion's hide --Dryden

[carlitos]

:pigsfly

Am I right?

[KingMerv00]

Fonebone says the WTC2 murder weapon was a cruise missile disguised a a Boeing 767.

Quick googling tells me a cruise missle is around 6 meters long...how long is a jumbo jet?

[Titanic Explorer]

Fonebone is a " truther " and a " No planer "

Fonebone says the WTC2 murder weapon was a cruise missile disguised a a Boeing 767.

Would you like to go " toe to toe" with Fonebone and his cruise missile evidence ?

An ass is still an ass even though he wears a lion's hide --Dryden


any proof of a cruise missle?

[carlitos]

KingMerv00, You can see some of the theory here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5431133#post5431133).

[aggle-rithm]

Quick googling tells me a cruise missle is around 6 meters long...how long is a jumbo jet?

You have to take relativity and Lorenz transformations into account.

[The Charnel Expanse]

Anyone remember what used to be at http://www.stlouisrams.net ?
A guy claiming that one of the keys to understanding 9/11 was the propaganda psyop that occurred in Super Bowl XXXVI, which was clearly fixed in favor of the [gasp] Patriots [and he had the grainy, frame-by-frame gifs slowed down to ¼ their original rate and clearly showed calls blown by the refs in real time to prove it].

[dudalb]

All you have shown is 100% confirmation that you believe every nutjob with a nutjob story on the internet without question.

Of course from lurking and reading your posts on this forum, I already knew that about you.

Either that of bill is just a Troll who gets his jollies out of getting a rise out of us..a very strong possibility.

[cantonear1968]

Fonebone is a " truther " and a " No planer "

Fonebone says the WTC2 murder weapon was a cruise missile disguised a a Boeing 767.

Would you like to go " toe to toe" with Fonebone and his cruise missile evidence ?

Yes, fonebone. I absolutely would. Except I don't want to derail this thread, so please pick another place where you would like to discuss this.

Might I suggest Vienna? Birthplace of modern psychiatry?

BTW, how is Ace Baker after his "suicide" attempt?

[dudalb]

Fonebone is a " truther " and a " No planer "

Fonebone says the WTC2 murder weapon was a cruise missile disguised a a Boeing 767.

Would you like to go " toe to toe" with Fonebone and his cruise missile evidence ?

An ass is still an ass even though he wears a lion's hide --Dryden

Fonebone is crazy as hell.

[Titanic Explorer]

Fonebone is crazy as hell.

I think our resident no planer Jammy wins that award

[carlitos]

I like Fonebone's posts. Always double-spaced, refers to his nickname in the 3rd person, generally ends them with a relevant quote, occasionally amusing use of inequality signs < >, and he has an actually affirmative hypothesis (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=164034) about what actually happened on 9/11. Bic?

[Titanic Explorer]

One chestnut of Truther stupidity that ranks up there with the no planers is the one that argue that the calls made from the planes were fake. Some Truthers do think the real people were on the phones, but some government agents had them at gunpoint reading a script. . Other Truthers suggest the calls were government fabricated robocalls. Someone on this board thinks Betty Ong's call was fake.

And their proof would be..........?

Plus Truthers argue it's impossible for cellphone calls to be made at a high altitude- last time I checked, all the planes were at a very low altitude when they crashed....

Have Truthers come up with anything they see as evidence to support their theories that the phone calls were fakes?

[Bell]

Have Truthers come up with anything they see as evidence to support their theories that the phone calls were fakes?

"Mom? This is Mark Bingham!" (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/08/mom-this-is-mark-bingham.html)

[Titanic Explorer]

"Mom? This is Mark Bingham!" (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/08/mom-this-is-mark-bingham.html)

His mother explained that was his usual greeting on the phone, as he was a professional and it was a habit. She took the tone as serious, but didn't find him saying his full name as being a first...

[Furcifer]

Fonebone is a " truther " and a " No planer "

Fonebone says the WTC2 murder weapon was a cruise missile disguised a a Boeing 767.

Would you like to go " toe to toe" with Fonebone and his cruise missile evidence ?

An ass is still an ass even though he wears a lion's hide --Dryden

FTW?

[Dave Rogers]

Obviously on the lower level of conspracy theories, even for delusional truthers, because I had never heard that one before.

I think Hoffman is rather highly regarded among the truther community, despite the sheer implausibility of his bizarre paranoid fantasies. I once wrote a critique of his Attack Scenario 404 (http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/analysis/scenario404.html), but in retrospect it wasn't really necessary; nobody sane could conceivably take it seriously. In particular, he says that the explosives in the WTC were placed by a team of three technicians over about four weeks; if you divide this by the amount of explosives he claims were used (which you need to search for elsewhere on the site), they had to be averaging about one 40lb charge each every ten seconds. For four weeks.

And that's one of the things I find most entertaining about the truth movement. The idiocy doesn't stem from the rank and file; it's the intellectual leaders of the movement that are the most originally stupid.

Dave

[MikeW]

One chestnut of Truther stupidity that ranks up there with the no planers is the one that argue that the calls made from the planes were fake. Some Truthers do think the real people were on the phones, but some government agents had them at gunpoint reading a script. . Other Truthers suggest the calls were government fabricated robocalls. Someone on this board thinks Betty Ong's call was fake.
And it gets worse. Another theory says the calls were part of an exercise: people called their relatives, acted a role, scared them, just because it was a part of some scheduled exercise.

Idiots. Still, I suppose you can't blame them: they just have to find ways to make those inconvenient calls go away.

[Oystein]

...Someone on this board thinks Betty Ong's call was fake.

And their proof would be..........?
...

Have been over this with my personal truther buddy. His proof is: She is not panicking.
He thinks she should be crying and screaming and uttering dramatic words, because
a) she is a woman
b) she is going to die

To which I reply:
a) flight attendants are trained to remain calm in emergency situations - that's their number one skill, long before pushing juice and closing overhead lockers
b) She did not know at the time that the hijackers intended to crash

To which he replied: I WILL NOT CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION IF YOU DON'T RESPECT ME AND KEEP TWISTING DA TRUTH!!!

[Obviousman]

I think this would have to be a 10 on the lack-o-logic meter:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16026&view=findpost&p=198023

1. It is very unlikely that hijacked 757/767s hit the WTC and Pentagon.
2. It is provable that videos hitting the WTC are faked, much like the Zapruder film.
I'm sorry, but are you out of your mind? This is absolutely, utterly preposterous and an insult to the thousands of people who lost their lives that day! I saw the second plane hit the World Trade Center with my own eyes from a balcony in lower Manhattan. What is it exactly that you posit I, and thousands of other people in the five boroughs, saw happen that day?

Sorry, but it is impossible to discuss the evidence with people who think I am out of my mind.

When people unaware of the evidence oppose it with their "own experiences" there is no arguing with them, since their beliefs are contrary to the evidence.

There is NO DOUBT that videos of the event are faked. If you say they are true depictions, you are wrong. A 767 cannot fly 500+ mph at sea level without being torn apart by air resistance. A 767 cannot fly through a steel building at the same speed it flies through air. If you say you saw these things occur, you are delusional or mistaken.

[Oystein]

I think this would have to be a 10 on the lack-o-logic meter:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16026&view=findpost&p=198023

Dang! What a moron!

Wanted to reply, but...
The administrator is currently not accepting new membership registrations.

A little above the one you quoted:

Posted Today, 03:19 AM

View PostDean Hagerman, on 21 July 2010 - 11:06 PM, said:

View PostJack White, on 22 July 2010 - 12:56 AM, said:

2. It is provable that videos hitting the WTC are faked, much like the Zapruder film.




Jack you know I believe in the Zapruder film being altered

But how were all the dozens of films of the 2nd plane hitting the WTC faked?

Not only that but the 2nd hit was live on the air on I dont know how many stations

I am not an expert on 9-11 because I dont believe it was an inside job, but its impossible to fake all of those films Jack

With the Z-film we know it could have been altered, but with the all the films taken that day by amature let alone live news feeds, I just dont see how thats possible


Believe me...it IS possible through live feed editing planned in advance. Tell me, is it possible that when
you are watching a football game on tv and a yellow line appears on your screen showing first down yardage,
is that yellow line also actually on the stadium grass and seen by those present at the stadium? Same principle.

Tell me, can an aluminum airplane fly through a steel building at the same speed that it flies through the air?
That is what videos show. Can a 767 fly at sea level over 500 mph? That is what videos show, though pilots
and engineers say that is impossible. In dense air at sea level, a 767 would disintegrate at that speed.
If you do not know these things, you have not studied the evidence.

It is difficult to even converse with people who are not familiar with the latest information on 911.

Jack


Urrr...

Believe me...it IS possible - urrr... why should I believe a moron? Just because he pleads?

through live feed editing planned in advance - urrr... does that include all the amateur videos? How can you know in advance which New Yorkers will point a camera at the towers after the first hit?

Tell me, can an aluminum airplane fly through a steel building at the same speed that it flies through the air? That is what videos show. - urrr... no!? If the plane had flown through the building at the same speed, it would have exited the building at the same speed and we would have found the debris of the planes about a mile north and south of the towers. All the videos clearly show that most of both planes was entirely arrested within the buildings, i.e. brought to a full stop, with only some parts emenating at speeds a good deal slower than 500mph. That moron is plainly lying!

[aggle-rithm]

To which he replied: I WILL NOT CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION IF YOU DON'T RESPECT ME AND KEEP TWISTING DA TRUTH!!!

Oh, noes!

When a truther threatens to stop dragging your brain through a noxious cocktail of lies and stupidity, he's pulling out the BIG GUNS!

[Fonebone]

ftw?

ABF?

[Oystein]

Oh, noes!

When a truther threatens to stop dragging your brain through a noxious cocktail of lies and stupidity, he's pulling out the BIG GUNS!

Like I told earlier, I still get chuckles every time I recall that lengthy quarrel I had with the guy. Went on for something like 1.5 years. At one point I offered him 2000 Euros cash on the nail if he could present proof for some claim. He replied that he did not think I was serious. I said "well try me - find your proof, and if I don't pay you in cash, then you can call me names". He never even tried to pass anything by as proof.
So as our discussions went on (not just 9/11 CT, others as well), I offered him a few more 2000 Euro rewards for any serios references that would prove some more of his assertions (that the European Central Bank is a private organization; that Larry Silverstein made a profit on insurances; that Andrews AFB had alert birds on 9/11; that WTC7 fell in 6 seconds; that Pete Zalewski was ATC for both flights 11 and 175 and for Egypt Air flight 990 that was crashed on october 31, 1999).
He never got close to collecting any cash, and I think it is this public failure of his to back up his claims that made him give up debating me about half a year ago. In one or two cases he grudgingly admitted that his claims were probably false. But he never learned from his failures. It was always I who was twisting da truth in his eyes.

[excaza]

Can a 767 fly at sea level over 500 mph? That is what videos show, though pilots and engineers say that is impossible. In dense air at sea level, a 767 would disintegrate at that speed.

That would be a pretty glaring design flaw. I'd like to talk to those pilots and engineers so I can take their degrees away.

[grandmastershek]

LOL! i recently had a truther i know present the movie "dark side of the moon" as evidence of the moon landing hoax. and even after providing him withe ending of the movie he still doesn't get it.

[Titanic Explorer]

I think this would have to be a 10 on the lack-o-logic meter:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16026&view=findpost&p=198023

I wonder if any of the no planers understand that they need evidence to back their claims? Bear in mind many of these Truthers are mentally ill, and logic escapes them

[Captain_Swoop]

And that's one of the things I find most entertaining about the truth movement. The idiocy doesn't stem from the rank and file; it's the intellectual leaders of the movement that are the most originally stupid.
I am a relative neophyte at this 9/11 stuff but it is very similar to the Apollo Hoax.
A few 'at the top' think they see some kind of anomoly because of their lack of knowledge of rocket science, physics, engineering, astronomy etc and jump on this as some kind of 'smoking gun'. When it is explained by those with the knowledge they either close their ears and continue to twist the world to fit their flawed understanding or drop that 'smoking gun' and jump on another one. Most of the pro hoax crowd that post on BAUt or Apollohoax are just hangers on, parroting what they have gleaned from the 'leaders' but understanding even less.

Apollohoaxers never seem to wonder why all the worlds rocket scientists, engineers, astronomers, geologists etc don't doubt the Apollo record. It seems to be the same with Truthers.

A third similarity is the lack of support or evidence. 'It looks like' or 'it could have been' or appeal to autority are their stock in trade.

[aggle-rithm]

Was it Christopher7 who claimed that his experience building wood-frame houses qualified him to evaluate the failure of a 47-story skyscraper?

[Dog Town]

Was it Christopher7 who claimed that his experience building wood-frame houses qualified him to evaluate the failure of a 47-story skyscraper?

Affirmative!:jaw-dropp

[240-185]

I wonder if any of the no planers understand that they need evidence to back their claims? Bear in mind many of these Truthers are mentally ill, and logic escapes them
Precisely, they aren't able to understand how to make a demonstration. They believe they can revolutionize the way of arguing their case. The most ill of them say that asking evidence or backing their claims up is "shill's logic".

[KingMerv00]

ChristopherA claimed there was a documentary on the contruction of the Twin Towers produced by PBS. When a record of the documentary could not be found, he claimed PBS was in on the 9/11 attacks and had removed it from their archives. :(

[Dog Town]

ChristopherA claimed there was a documentary on the contruction of the Twin Towers produced by PBS. When a record of the documentary could not be found, he claimed PBS was in on the 9/11 attacks and had removed it from their archives. :(

Was that the one that he claimed showed a concrete core, with 4" re-bar, etc...?

[Bell]

Was that the one that he claimed showed a concrete core, with 4" re-bar, etc...?

Yep. Yes. Correct. Absolutely. You are right.

That and the faulty BBC illustration posted on the interweb.

Eta: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1540044.stm

[Oystein]

...
That and the faulty BBC illustration posted on the interweb.

Eta: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1540044.stm

Wow, what a fail!! :jaw-dropp

[Dog Town]

Yep. Yes. Correct. Absolutely. You are right.

That and the faulty BBC illustration posted on the interweb.

Eta: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1540044.stm

Yes, ta stoopid comes flooding back. The BBC might "really" be dis-info!:D

[CompusMentus]

Rosalee Grable (AKA the Webfairy) takes some beating in bat-crap stoopidiosityness, ie during a certain Fetzer/Webfairy interview this noisome medusa said that Edna Crinton jumped from the tower that day because she was hit by a "pain-ray" from a helicopter.

She also announced her theory that the supernanothermate was painted on the outside of the towers by UAV disguised as ducks or geese.

And.....that the crash site at Shanksville is home to a super-secret undergound goverment facility.

phew.....

Compus

[Dave Rogers]

ChristopherA claimed there was a documentary on the contruction of the Twin Towers produced by PBS. When a record of the documentary could not be found, he claimed PBS was in on the 9/11 attacks and had removed it from their archives. :(

Tony Szamboti had a similar delusion, claiming that Larry Silverstein stated quite openly in a TV interview that WTC7 was deliberately demolished for safety reasons and then refusing to believe that he simply conflated the famous "pull it" quote with his own misinterpretation of it. I'm not sure whether he still believes that the TV archives have been doctored, but I suspect he'll show up some time soon to declarify the matter.

Dave

[Titanic Explorer]

Was that the one that he claimed showed a concrete core, with 4" re-bar, etc...?

PBS was behind 9/11?
Of course! It all makes sense now!

[Titanic Explorer]

Rosalee Grable (AKA the Webfairy) takes some beating in bat-crap stoopidiosityness, ie during a certain Fetzer/Webfairy interview this noisome medusa said that Edna Crinton jumped from the tower that day because she was hit by a "pain-ray" from a helicopter.

She also announced her theory that the supernanothermate was painted on the outside of the towers by UAV disguised as ducks or geese.

And.....that the crash site at Shanksville is home to a super-secret undergound goverment facility.

phew.....

Compus



The deeper down the rabbit hole one goes, it's hard to seperate the stupid Truthers from the ones that belong in a psychiatric ward...

[Captain_Swoop]

Stupid truthers just parrot what the psychiatric patients originate.
Just like the Apollohoax or Holocaust Deniers.

[aggle-rithm]

PBS was behind 9/11?
Of course! It all makes sense now!

It's the whole NWO/Bush/Cheney/Popular Mechanics/PBS Co-Prosperity Sphere.

[bill smith]

Jeez...you guys talk about Truther stupidity ? Why don't you read your own recent posts ? I tell you the jref is a goner if you guys don't pull your socks up. And sooner rather than later.

[The Platypus]

Jeez...you guys talk about Truther stupidity ? Why don't you read your own recent posts ? I tell you the jref is a goner if you guys don't pull your socks up. And sooner rather than later.

HAHAHA! You think the jref will be gone just because skeptical people discuss and laugh at the multitude of examples of lunatic fringe stupidity and your in the lunatic fringe and don't like it? A guy in a wacky little cult is telling sane people to pull of their socks or else? LMAO!!!

That's quite ridiculous and hilarious and yet another fine example of 911 truther traitor stupidity.

[Disbelief]

Heiwa and his various analogies. I especially enjoyed his comparison of the towers to a spaghetti tower.

Terral and his height calculations at the Pentagon.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Jeez...you guys talk about Truther stupidity ? Why don't you read your own recent posts ? I tell you the jref is a goner if you guys don't pull your socks up. And sooner rather than later.

Billy, you've done just what you said you'd do & then some. You say that we should read our own posts, well we have the evidence. What evidence have you forked over or contributed to this forum? Oh that's right, you're here for attention because noone in the real world wants to hear BS fairy stories about 9/11 from an attention getting troll who thinks something "sinister by the government" happened that terrible day. You've got no respect for the dead!

[cantonear1968]

Would Ace Baker's fake suicide count in this thread? That was both stupid and funny!

[dafydd]

Jeez...you guys talk about Truther stupidity ? Why don't you read your own recent posts ? I tell you the jref is a goner if you guys don't pull your socks up. And sooner rather than later.

Another desperate attempt to gain attention.It worked though,I've answered you.Congratulations.

[BaaBaa]

LOL! i recently had a truther i know present the movie "dark side of the moon" as evidence of the moon landing hoax. and even after providing him withe ending of the movie he still doesn't get it.

I luuuurve that doc....after the first 10(?) minutes, I knew they were pulling a collective leg, when I kept seeing names from Kubrick movies attached to interviewees....

[Pinch]

Of the Cavalcade of Stupidity that is the Truther Movement, my vote has to go to Cap't Bob "Tiffany" Balsamo, the gender-challenged lead of the intellectually-lost and obtuse idiotic Wrong-Way Corrigans of PfT, when asked the question "...when a craft exceeds it's design limitations, how long can it be expected to survive?"

His stultifyingly moronic answer:

Again, it's not so much duration rather that when it hits its "design limits" it breaks. Period.

Most aviators, especially those with any experience taking an aircraft beyond its "design limits" know that statement is bull . The easiest and quickest - and apropos - refutation is Boeing's requirement to test the structural integrity of their aircraft parts to survive 150% beyond the "design limits" set by the aircraft architects. The 787 wing problems of late notwithstanding, Design News (http://www.designnews.com/article/316208-Boeing_s_Dreamliner_Struggles_Surprise_or_Predicta ble_.php) wrote in an article:


The wing static load tests will have to be performed again to make certain the wing can flex to the required 150% of design load without structural failure of the wing itself or damage to the join areas.


The 777 wing-flex test had a similar experience, snapping at 154% of its design. As Karl Sabbagh wrote in Twenty First Century Jet (http://www.amazon.com/Twenty-First-Century-Jet-Making-Marketing-Boeing/dp/0684807211), "Boeing's history is littered with examples of wings that have behaved above and beyond the call of duty".

Not exactly evidence that when a 787 or 777 wing reaches its "design limits, it breaks. Period"


Airbus (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/06/a-closer-look-understanding-th.html) is no different:


In February 2006, nearly a year after A380 had begun its flight test program, Airbus was conducting testing on MSN5000, the static test airframe when the wing "ruptured" during ultimate load testing. The wing was being flexed to 150% of limit load when the wing broke between the inboard and outboard engines.


There are examples everywhere of aircraft exceeding their "design limits" across every aspect of the aerodynamic spectrum and landing safely, sometimes with severe damage (Aloha flight 243 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243)) , sometimes with a popped rivets or two or three or sometimes with so little damage the aircraft is flying again within days of an inspection.


My personal experience (http://instapinch.com/?p=1003) includes being in an F-14 during one air combat engagement where we snapped 10 g's on the jet. The Navy had a 6.5 g limit for airframe fatigue restrictions (extend the service life of the airframe) - the advertised Grumman g limit was 8. We exceeded both of those, the latter being their "design limit" and the aircraft performed absolutely flawless. After an inspection of the aircraft and a dressing down from the Maintenance Officer for us, the aircraft was back on the schedule the next day.


Again, it's not so much duration rather that when it hits its "design limits" it breaks. Period.


Thanks for the laffs, Cap't Tiffany. Got any other tidbits of aeronautical derring-do up your skirt?

[The Platypus]

examples of truther stupidity, let's see:

How about the prediction that Bush would be the last president becoming dictator by over throwing the constitution and instituting martial law.

How about that any group of rich and/or powerful people that has a meeting, has to be some evil cabal of jooooz plotting to get us all.

How about their whole FEMA camp paranoid hysteria.

How about that some of them think the airplanes were holograms and hoaxes.

How about the laughable nano-thermite "paper" at a journal "bentham" that is such a shady and pathetically obvious scam.

How about their claims that HAARP is an US/NWO weather and natural disaster control machine.

Ron Paul... nuff said.

How about the idea that the entire gov't, media, and expert community are all lying, but they expect everyone to blindly trust some high-school dropout on the internet with spewing crazy things on some pathetic website.

How about that everyone who disagrees with them must be an "agent" paid just to follow them around the internet and disagree with them.

How about that they think they are defeating some super duper evil world dominating group by ranting online to people.

How about that they pass out pamphlets and such on street corners like rabid jehovah's witnesses.

How about that they think they are the "awake" ones and we are all "asleep"

How about the way they obsessively use the worth "truth" over and over while lying constantly and trying to peddle those lies like a snake oil salesmen.

How about that they are obsessed and often foaming at the mouth cult members calling everyone else "sheeple".

How about the way the minute you don't agree with them, you are accused of loving and agreeing with everything the gov't says and does.

How about the way they claim everyone else believes everything on tv, while they totally and immediately believe anything claimed on some nutjob website and especially anyone with a youtube video.

How about that they like to claim they've done "research", like noone can tell they only read the nutjob websites and regurgitate them.

How about how they call everyone else brainwashed, while most of them recite, word for word, the same stuff and everytime act like it's all new.

How about how they weave every event that happens into their ever growing plot.

Bohemian Grove, the campsite where rich and powerful supposedly gather to worship and sacrifice babies to an owl god statue and participate in alleged gay orgies... ummm wow. that's all i can say...

An oldie and goodie and one of my personal favorite, "just asking questions" LOL, ya right...

Then there's the ones with the particle beam space weapon.

When they lose it and start ranting how they are going to laugh at our executions for not believing them.

Seriously, i could easily go on all day and night...

[Oystein]

I luuuurve that doc....after the first 10(?) minutes, I knew they were pulling a collective leg, when I kept seeing names from Kubrick movies attached to interviewees....

Ah I remember the first time I saw it, probably the TV premiere on French/German culture channel Arte 8 years ago, I was in awe - in awe! Knowing what ******** Rumsfeld and Kissinger are, I really was close to believing the story. Not being a Kubrickk-affictionado, I did not catch any of the clues and had to wait for the end.

[Fonebone]

U-Haul is known for having famous landscapes painted on their vans, like the Grand Canyon, the Hollywood sign and so forth. I believe they used to have one of the old New York skyline with an airplane flying over it.

The stupid isn't claiming it existed, the stupid is not understanding that there's nothing wrong with it.



Nice photoshop there, Billy.

Are you seriously putting that up as evidence for the claim?

WRONG ! All of the UHAUL landscapes graphics had their brand red horizontal stripe
behind in the background of every scene used in the UHAUL entire graphic series of landscapes.
I cannot locate single truck without this broad stripe that spans the length of
the vehicles.


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.petragyocum.com/images/print/uhaul_view.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.petragyocum.com/print/uhaul_supergraphics.php&usg=__VnYPt1qti8rtSaNNpkmcLZG-3Qk=&h=600&w=930&sz=102&hl=en&start=4&itbs=1&tbnid=WvkrT233yRLUUM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=147&prev=/images%3Fq%3Du%2Bhaul%2Bvan%2Bgraphics%26hl%3Den%2 6rlz%3D1T4ADBF_enUS314US314%26tbs%3Disch:1

This utube video with a nyc police radio/audio states the van with the WTC tower commercial jet mural
was filled with explosives and they requested the bomb squad.
The police officer states the van occupants fled but were captured .
Then the officer states the van exploded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRWQxlnZQj4&feature=PlayList&p=F15C55CA837A6F4B&playnext=1&index=37

The greatest glory of a free-born people,
is to transmit that freedom to their children. __Havard

[triforcharity]

WRONG ! All of the UHAUL landscapes graphics had their brand red horizontal stripe
behind in the background of every scene used in the UHAUL entire graphic series of landscapes.
I cannot locate single truck without this broad stripe that spans the length of
the vehicles.


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.petragyocum.com/images/print/uhaul_view.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.petragyocum.com/print/uhaul_supergraphics.php&usg=__VnYPt1qti8rtSaNNpkmcLZG-3Qk=&h=600&w=930&sz=102&hl=en&start=4&itbs=1&tbnid=WvkrT233yRLUUM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=147&prev=/images%3Fq%3Du%2Bhaul%2Bvan%2Bgraphics%26hl%3Den%2 6rlz%3D1T4ADBF_enUS314US314%26tbs%3Disch:1

This utube video with a nyc police radio/audio states the van with the WTC tower commercial jet mural
was filled with explosives and they requested the bomb squad.
The police officer states the van occupants fled but were captured .
Then the officer states the van exploded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRWQxlnZQj4&feature=PlayList&p=F15C55CA837A6F4B&playnext=1&index=37

The greatest glory of a free-born people,
is to transmit that freedom to their children. __Havard

Really? Where is this report from the many many many people whom would have been in the area that were blown up with this bomb? Where is all the damage from this bomb?

Imagine that, no other evidence of it.

I wonder why that is.....

[aggle-rithm]

The police officer states the van occupants fled but were captured .
Then the officer states the van exploded.


Heh, heh!

What kind of explosives? Firecrackers?

Seriously, if you're close enough to actually witness a van full of explosives detonate, then you wouldn't be alive to talk about it.

Real high-power explosives aren't like in the movies. You can't outrun the blast wave.

[Captain_Swoop]

Are we talking about explosives destined for the towers or a seperate van load of explosives?

If it is the former then why would they be driving a van full of explosives fused and primed ready to explode if they were going to be placed elsewhere?

[bill smith]

WRONG ! All of the UHAUL landscapes graphics had their brand red horizontal stripe
behind in the background of every scene used in the UHAUL entire graphic series of landscapes.
I cannot locate single truck without this broad stripe that spans the length of
the vehicles.


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.petragyocum.com/images/print/uhaul_view.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.petragyocum.com/print/uhaul_supergraphics.php&usg=__VnYPt1qti8rtSaNNpkmcLZG-3Qk=&h=600&w=930&sz=102&hl=en&start=4&itbs=1&tbnid=WvkrT233yRLUUM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=147&prev=/images%3Fq%3Du%2Bhaul%2Bvan%2Bgraphics%26hl%3Den%2 6rlz%3D1T4ADBF_enUS314US314%26tbs%3Disch:1

This utube video with a nyc police radio/audio states the van with the WTC tower commercial jet mural
was filled with explosives and they requested the bomb squad.
The police officer states the van occupants fled but were captured .
Then the officer states the van exploded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRWQxlnZQj4&feature=PlayList&p=F15C55CA837A6F4B&playnext=1&index=37

The greatest glory of a free-born people,
is to transmit that freedom to their children. __Havard

Fonebone can you post that link to the police reports again ? It's not working. Thanks

[Fonebone]

Fonebone can you post that link to the police reports again ? It's not working. Thanks

Hmmmm--- not the first time my links have been corrupted--mox nix

here is the link url and the naked address to cut and poste if necessary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRWQxlnZQj4&feature=PlayList&p=F15C55CA837A6F4B&playnext=1&index=37

Also Google "911 mural van police audio " and similar variations for additional links.
The url is working so cut and paste if necessary--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRWQxlnZQj4&feature=PlayList&p=F15C55CA837A6F4B&playnext=1&index=37

[Bell]

Hmmmm--- not the first time my links have been corrupted--mox nix

Hmmmm... tells me something about the poster and his BB skills. Or lack thereof.

[bill smith]

Hmmmm--- not the first time my links have been corrupted--mox nix

here is the link url and the naked address to cut and poste if necessary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRWQxlnZQj4&feature=PlayList&p=F15C55CA837A6F4B&playnext=1&index=37

Also Google "911 mural van police audio " and similar variations for additional links.
The url is working so cut and paste if necessary--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRWQxlnZQj4&feature=PlayList&p=F15C55CA837A6F4B&playnext=1&index=37

Thanks . working fine now.

[Fonebone]

Thanks . working fine now.

-Fonebone< could you try the working link again-Seems to be broken once again
Paranormal gremlins ?? Or JREF skullduggery ...
Cut and paste link to prove youtube link integrity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRWQxlnZQj4&feature=PlayList&p=F15C55CA837A6F4B&playnext=1&index=37

[Bell]

What are the finest examples of 9/ll Truther stupidity that you've ever encountered?

Bill Smith and Fonebone trying to figure out how to get a YouTube link working.

Keep it up guys, great skit!

[Sword_Of_Truth]

WRONG ! All of the UHAUL landscapes graphics had their brand red horizontal stripe
behind in the background of every scene used in the UHAUL entire graphic series of landscapes.
I cannot locate single truck without this broad stripe that spans the length of
the vehicles.

So the U-Haul New York mural would have had the New York Skyline, the Twin Towers, a non-descript airplane and a big red band.

What's your point here, Fonebone? You appear to be implying that the presence of a red band prevents one from drawing a picture of the Twin Towers and an airplane.

That's bloody retarded, even for a truther.

This utube video with a nyc police radio/audio states the van with the WTC tower commercial jet mural
was filled with explosives and they requested the bomb squad.
The police officer states the van occupants fled but were captured .
Then the officer states the van exploded.


And where did this happen?

[Furcifer]

You know these guys have to think 9/11 was an inside job.

w3qFdbUEq5s

[Obviousman]

I posted this earlier, but boy - you have to follow the thread through 10 pages and see how ant-Semitic Jim Fetzer is, how he just self-promotes himself, repeats what he thinks is right, ignores evidence that contradicts him, attacks anyone who disagrees with him, won't debate factors he's called on and... well, you name it, he does it.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16026&st=90

The guy is a grade A buffoon. Someone mentions that they like how he thinks outside the box. That may be admirable at times, but Fetzer is not just outside the box, he's left the planet and heading off into space.

[aggle-rithm]

Someone mentions that they like how he thinks outside the box.

They like the fact that he thinks outside the box, or they like the way that he thinks outside the box?

Fetzer has got to be one of the most deluded people on the planet. How can someone who teaches critical thinking to our next generation of youth have such a slippery grasp of logic?

"You need a credit card to do that!!!!"

Sheesh.

[Captain_Swoop]

Sometimes the 'box' is there for a reason.

[CompusMentus]

.....Fetzer is not just outside the box, he's left the planet and heading off into space.


On one of his "radio" shows, I heard Fetzer interviewing Judy Wood. When asked by a caller during the phone-in section "why did the people jump" [from the WTC towers]? She answered that it was probably because they thought it was their best chance, that they thought they would be caught by nets on helicopters. Fetzer did not offer any alternative to counter this.

Also (it might have been the same show) another caller offered the scenario that the jumpers may have been thrown out by teams of "black ops". It's enough to know that Fetzer failed to castigate this caller for the idiocy.

I am on a yahoo mailing list that Fetzer regularly contributes to where he is often held to task about his views on 9/11. (FETZERclaimsDEBUNK@yahoogroups.com). He now tries to distance himself from his previous affiliations with Jones, Wood, Rosalee Grable et al. I must admit I have some fun reminding him of his previous endorsements of the more nutty aspects of those peoples "research". The mailing list is rather quiet at the moment but if anyone here would like to sign up just pop in and say hello.

Compus

[cantonear1968]

I just had a truther tell me that since I wasn't personally involved in the construction and subsequent investigation of WTC7 and it's collapse, then I am just taking NIST on "faith" and couldn't possible know what "really" happened!

No! Really! He thinks NIST and the entire engineering community is faith based!

But then he did mention that he had 1200 professionals to support his claims!

Oy vay!