It's not going to work, BP

[Elizabeth I]

Has anybody else seen the new BP TV ad with the good ol' boy who's "from around here" talking about how he's goin' to work real hard to clean up this here mess? Nobody cares more about this here Gulf Coast than he does!

Hello, BP? Talking crap in a southern accent doesn't make you any more credible than talking crap in a British accent.

And it doesn't make us like you any better, or feel any more inclined to forgive your incredible carelessness, arrogance and indifference.

[MarkCorrigan]

Ah BP, the soulless face of Britain. Keep on truckin' you amoral bastards.

[calebprime]

Why do you folks hate pretty green flower-petals?

And why won't you think of the CEO? He'd like his life back. Have you no pity for him? He's a person, too.

[phantomb]

What a slimy oily move!

[ShadowSot]

Why do you folks hate pretty green flower-petals?

And why won't you think of the CEO? He'd like his life back. Have you no pity for him? He's a person, too.

Great Shades of Chris Cocker Batman!
:P

[Quinn]

I have this vision of that guy being some anonymous, paper-pushing office drone until this mess went down, and someone in PR noticed that Drone #4275B was an authentic good ol' boy from down da bayou, at which point he was informed that if we wanted to remain in BP's employ, he would accept this promotion to the position of Head Cleanup Guy (chief duty: producing TV soundbytes).

[Elizabeth I]

I have this vision of that guy being some anonymous, paper-pushing office drone until this mess went down, and someone in PR noticed that Drone #4275B was an authentic good ol' boy from down da bayou, at which point he was informed that if we wanted to remain in BP's employ, he would accept this promotion to the position of Head Cleanup Guy (chief duty: producing TV soundbytes).

:D

[Tricky]

I don't know about that ad, but I know about another one. It featured Darryl Willis. He's a geophysicist that I worked with in the South Louisiana group. That was about ten years ago, and Darryl has advanced pretty far. He's not a paper-pusher He's the head of an exploration team and is making quite a name for himself. And yes, he truly is from Louisiana (as many of BPs staff are) and that really is his accent.

And yes, many of us are working nights and weekends and doing scut work to help clean up this mess. There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks. And yes, it is pretty hard on some people. It is a very depressing place and I think most of you are aware of what depression can do to your life.

If any of you think that BP people are being cynical and just trying to "PR" our way out of this mess, I suggest you visit our command center here in Houston. Do it some Saturaday night around 3AM. There will be lots of people there. Oh, and why don't you bike or walk there. You wouldn't want to use any gasoline, because that would mean we have to keep drilling oil wells.

[Alt+F4]

And yes, many of us are working nights and weekends and doing scut work to help clean up this mess. There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks. And yes, it is pretty hard on some people. It is a very depressing place and I think most of you are aware of what depression can do to your life.

If any of you think that BP people are being cynical and just trying to "PR" our way out of this mess, I suggest you visit our command center here in Houston. Do it some Saturaday night around 3AM. There will be lots of people there.

I agree with you Tricky, but BP should just stop the television ads, it doesn't help anything.

[Tricky]

I agree with you Tricky, but BP should just stop the television ads, it doesn't help anything.

It doesn't do any good with incredibly cynical people, but I think a lot of people out there don't realize that BP is composed of a whole lot of people like me and Darryl. We're not a bunch of faceless paper-pushers and we really do care.

Remember the Exxon method? After Valdez, there was stony silence and un-cooperativeness and little or no information given to the press. You really think that's the better way? Maybe it worked better to keep the stock up, but it BP has committed itself to being open and accessible about this. And compared to a lot of companies after a disaster, I think you would have to admit that they've been so. Our CEO is a household name now. Every time there is a story, there is a name attached, not "just Vice President of Technical Finagling". And people like Darryl Willis and whoever that guy was in the ad Elizabeth mentioned. (I hardly watch TV anymore. Too depressing.)

We are skeptics here, that is true. But skepticism is not synonymous with cynicism. Sure we want to portray our company in the best light possible, but I can say from first-hand knowledge that this is not some lie perpetuated by Wall Street. I know these folks. Lots of them. I am one. And I'm proud of the way my company has not run away from criticism, but has come through with the information, the people, and the cash to try to deal with this disaster.

I think, maybe a few years from now, when people can look back on this disaster without the harsh light of the TV cameras photographing the same dead bird thousands of times, maybe they will see it too.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Has anybody else seen the new BP TV ad with the good ol' boy who's "from around here" talking about how he's goin' to work real hard to clean up this here mess? Nobody cares more about this here Gulf Coast than he does!

Hello, BP? Talking crap in a southern accent doesn't make you any more credible than talking crap in a British accent.

And it doesn't make us like you any better, or feel any more inclined to forgive your incredible carelessness, arrogance and indifference.

I have to admit, I fell for it.

[Rolfe]

And you still think you were taken for a sucker by cynical PR, after reading Tricky's posts? Just because Elizabeth is cynical?

Rolfe.

[Cavemonster]

It doesn't do any good with incredibly cynical people, but I think a lot of people out there don't realize that BP is composed of a whole lot of people like me and Darryl. We're not a bunch of faceless paper-pushers and we really do care.

Remember the Exxon method? After Valdez, there was stony silence and un-cooperativeness and little or no information given to the press. You really think that's the better way? Maybe it worked better to keep the stock up, but it BP has committed itself to being open and accessible about this. And compared to a lot of companies after a disaster, I think you would have to admit that they've been so. Our CEO is a household name now. Every time there is a story, there is a name attached, not "just Vice President of Technical Finagling". And people like Darryl Willis and whoever that guy was in the ad Elizabeth mentioned. (I hardly watch TV anymore. Too depressing.)

We are skeptics here, that is true. But skepticism is not synonymous with cynicism. Sure we want to portray our company in the best light possible, but I can say from first-hand knowledge that this is not some lie perpetuated by Wall Street. I know these folks. Lots of them. I am one. And I'm proud of the way my company has not run away from criticism, but has come through with the information, the people, and the cash to try to deal with this disaster.

I think, maybe a few years from now, when people can look back on this disaster without the harsh light of the TV cameras photographing the same dead bird thousands of times, maybe they will see it too.

Tricky, it becomes a question of who the we're talking about when we're talking about BP.

Of course many of the employees, and even the highest levels of management may feel awful about this disaster and want to stop the damage as much and as quickly as possible.

But what remains, is that this same company downplayed threats when they wanted to get clearance to build these kinds of things in the first place, and that they did not have adequate plans in place to deal with what they knew was a very possible disaster. They knew that that particular well was a risk and purposefully decided to sacrifice safety measures to cut costs
(http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/damning_bp_memo_safety_too_costly_8jxxjRqjBM2uCYF4 ODJdCL)

They lied about the extent of the oil spilling out. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/06/20/2010-06-20_bp_memo_company_feared_100000_barrels_of_oil_co uld_spill_in_gulf_of_mexico_daily.html)

The company as a whole has behaved dishonestly and destructively. And with these ads, they are attempting to co-opt the real human emotions of their employees to help quell consumer distrust and ultimately get people buying their product again. By buying their product again, you vote with your dollars for the people at the top who allowed this to happen.

Tricky, I am in no way questioning your sincerity in feeling terrible about this disaster, but I'm puzzled that you don't mind that sincerity being harnessed to try to save the higher-ups who created this terrible situation.

[Elizabeth I]

I don't know about that ad, but I know about another one. It featured Darryl Willis. He's a geophysicist that I worked with in the South Louisiana group. That was about ten years ago, and Darryl has advanced pretty far. He's not a paper-pusher He's the head of an exploration team and is making quite a name for himself. And yes, he truly is from Louisiana (as many of BPs staff are) and that really is his accent.

And yes, many of us are working nights and weekends and doing scut work to help clean up this mess. There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks. And yes, it is pretty hard on some people. It is a very depressing place and I think most of you are aware of what depression can do to your life.

If any of you think that BP people are being cynical and just trying to "PR" our way out of this mess, I suggest you visit our command center here in Houston. Do it some Saturaday night around 3AM. There will be lots of people there. Oh, and why don't you bike or walk there. You wouldn't want to use any gasoline, because that would mean we have to keep drilling oil wells.

Tricky, I'm sorry I offended you. Of course there are decent people working for BP. There are decent people working for just about any company. I can't quite get into schadenfreude about the bankruptcy of one of my former employers because I know it means a bunch of good people are going througn a hard time.

And no need to create a strawman that I said anything about stopping oil exploration and production (I didn't, did I?)

But BP's record is not exactly golden (http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bps-dismal-safety-record/story?id=10763042&page=2).

As a southerner with a pretty pronounced accent myself, I resent it when people try to talk "lak me." Do I think that ad is cynical? Do I think it's exploitive? Hell, yes, I do.

And...well, what Cavemonster said.

Tricky, it becomes a question of who we're talking about when we're talking about BP.

Of course many of the employees, and even the highest levels of management may feel awful about this disaster and want to stop the damage as much and as quickly as possible.

Bt what remains, is that this same company downplayed threats when they wanted to get clearance to build these kinds of things in the first place, and that they did not have. They knew that that particular well was a risk and purposefully decided to sacrifice safety measures to cut costs
(http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/damning_bp_memo_safety_too_costly_8jxxjRqjBM2uCYF4 ODJdCL)

They lied about the extent of the oil spilling out. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/06/20/2010-06-20_bp_memo_company_feared_100000_barrels_of_oil_co uld_spill_in_gulf_of_mexico_daily.html)

The company as a whole has behaved dishonestly and destructively. And with these ads, they are attempting to co-opt the real human emotions of their employees to help quell consumer distrust and ultimately get people buying their product again. By buying their product again, you vote with your dollars for the people at the top who allowed this to happen.

Tricky, I am in no way questioning your sincerity in feeling terrible about this disaster, but I'm puzzled that you don't mind that sincerity being harnessed to try to save the higher-ups who created this terrible situation.

[TraneWreck]

It doesn't do any good with incredibly cynical people, but I think a lot of people out there don't realize that BP is composed of a whole lot of people like me and Darryl. We're not a bunch of faceless paper-pushers and we really do care.

[...]

I think, maybe a few years from now, when people can look back on this disaster without the harsh light of the TV cameras photographing the same dead bird thousands of times, maybe they will see it too.

We can separate your governing structure from the people who work in the company, just like we don't blame the soldiers for starting the wars in the Mid-East.

But what would really help BP in the PR department is not, say, lying about the amount of oil leaking from the pipe to limit liability (I trust your company's abilities enough to guess that they just didn't make a mistake and were thus off by a factor of 60-100). Or avoid lobbying for the release of international terrorists to secure drilling agreements. Or not running up 760 "Egregious" OSHA violations during the same period Exxon had 1.

I don't know at what level of the command structure folks start making the dangerous decisions, but a few commercials won't wipe away the record. We've decided that the primary legal obligation of corporations in the United States is to make money for the shareholders. I think that's a terrible decision, but fine, a lot of what went wrong in this disaster was BP pursuing their legal obligations (and skirting around some others). BP is obviously not remotely the only company doing this, they've just chosen a line of work that can result in thousands of people losing their livelihoods when something goes wrong.

But surely you can see why people are upset with BP expending dollars and efforts in a PR campaign, when dollars and effort could have forestalled this disaster. It's like a celebrity or politician going on TV and apologizing for cheating on their spouse: they're not actually sorry for the infidelity, otherwise they wouldn't have done it in the first place. They're sorry they got caught.

[WildCat]

As a southerner with a pretty pronounced accent myself, I resent it when people try to talk "lak me." Do I think that ad is cynical? Do I think it's exploitive? Hell, yes, I do.
Yeah, that British guy worked so well...

[Furcifer]

760 OHSA violations. This company has the option to adopt safety standards above OHSA standards and be exempt from inspection, and instead they have over $100 Million in fines, and quite likely Billions to pay to clean up the spill.

Whoever is responsible for making the decision not to adopt better standards, and not preventing these OHSA violations needs to be fired.

I know they are going to clean this up and I know they are going to pay for it. I want to know TODAY what they are doing to prevent this from happening and it better involve not getting any more OHSA violations.

My job as a Supervisor was to make sure there were no OHSA violations in my area. Before I turned on my computer I made sure there was nothing that could harm or injure my employees. If I found something I didn't leave until it was fixed. It had to be.

After the BP refinery in Texas City blew up on March 23, 2005, the U.S. Chemical Safety Board, an independent federal agency, concluded that the disaster was caused by “organizational and safety deficiencies at all levels of the BP Corporation. Warning signs of a possible disaster were present for several years, but company officials did not intervene effectively to prevent it.

If this company can't operate a safe work place, it doesn't need to operate. Neither do any of the other refineries that got 1500 Serious Citations. The whole industry needs some drastic changes.

So the next commercial I want to see is "Here's our new Head of Safety for North America and Environmental Engineering, and they will be hiring a whole new staff to go around to our all of our plants, tomorrow, so this this won't ever happen again"

Granted OHSA isn't exactly related to what happened in the Gulf, but a company that doesn't care about its employees sure as heck doesn't care about the public or the environment.

[ponderingturtle]

I don't know about that ad, but I know about another one. It featured Darryl Willis. He's a geophysicist that I worked with in the South Louisiana group. That was about ten years ago, and Darryl has advanced pretty far. He's not a paper-pusher He's the head of an exploration team and is making quite a name for himself. And yes, he truly is from Louisiana (as many of BPs staff are) and that really is his accent.

And yes, many of us are working nights and weekends and doing scut work to help clean up this mess. There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks. And yes, it is pretty hard on some people. It is a very depressing place and I think most of you are aware of what depression can do to your life.

If any of you think that BP people are being cynical and just trying to "PR" our way out of this mess, I suggest you visit our command center here in Houston. Do it some Saturaday night around 3AM. There will be lots of people there. Oh, and why don't you bike or walk there. You wouldn't want to use any gasoline, because that would mean we have to keep drilling oil wells.

And have pipelines leak and refineries explode, because you know maintenance is expensive.

[Darat]

...snip... , but has come through with the information, the people, and the cash to try to deal with this disaster.


...snip...

As ever I would say follow the money - there has never been any sign since the disaster happened that something has been delayed because BP was slow or reluctant to pay for it, money has been flowing out of BP faster that the oil spill itself, I can't think of any other company that has ever reacted in such a way to a disaster of their own making. It's set a very high benchmark for other companies to be measured against in future disasters (and there will be future disasters).

[Darat]

And have pipelines leak and refineries explode, because you know maintenance is expensive.

In BPs defence this was changing, a few years ago it certainly was a company that I considered would rather pay out a few million because someone died in a preventable incident rather than commit to spending several more million to ensure the incident couldn't happen.

[Cavemonster]

As ever I would say follow the money - there has never been any sign since the disaster happened that something has been delayed because BP was slow or reluctant to pay for it.

Frankly, this would be hard to know without actually being inside the confidential meetings being held there. This is a one of a kind disaster, so from the outside, it's impossible to know if possible solutions are being shot down or delayed because of reluctance to pay. The reason so much money is flowing out of BP is that the early attempts to stop the flow did not work. I don't attribute any nobility to it. They are dead as a company until they stop the oil from flowing out.

What we do know, from memos, is that of the 11 people killed in the blast, some of them may likely have survived if BP had bought the stronger shelters specifically designed to protect against such a blast, which they specifically declined to buy, instead opting for the cheapest shelters.

So we have a documentation of them putting profit above human lives in a gamble and losing those lives. I am less apt to give them the benefit of the doubt in their other actions.

[quarky]

If it was really cynical, wouldn't the spokesperson be a mega-babe in a bikini, holding a power tool and explaining the next move?

[MG1962]

If it was really cynical, wouldn't the spokesperson be a mega-babe in a bikini, holding a power tool and explaining the next move?

she would be firing a 50 cal machine gun

[Tricky]

Sorry, I haven't had a lot of time to participate more in this thread. For one thing, I have stated my position. For another, I recognize that a BP employee can hardly be unbiased. And for a third, I had to change my car oil and dump the old oil in the duck pond near my house. Being evil is a full time job.

[Stellafane]

From what I can see, BP ***** up and ***** up big. Everybody ***** up, from individuals to big corporations. It's what you do after you *** up that matters. It looks to me as though BP is handling this as well as, or better than, any other company has who's been in a remotely commensurate situation. They're an easy target and will be for quite a while. But in the end, I think of all the companies this could have happened to, we're lucky it's BP (if that last statement makes even a lick of sense).

As for the ad, damned if you do, damned if you don't, I think. If they said nothing, people would probably be on them for not caring. If they had some suit in a British accent talking down to us, we'd accuse them of elitism or something. If it's jes' plain folks, threads like this happen. All I know is, BP is sure pumping a lot of money into the US because of this. That may or may not compensate for anything, but it's at least a start.

Edited, breach of Rule 10.

[Elizabeth I]

All I know is, BP is sure pumping a lot of money into the US because of this.
So they're to be commended for doing the least they could do, which is to clean up the incredible mess their corner-cutting caused?

And what's wrong with someone with a neutral accent saying, "This and this and this are what we are doing"? There's no need to do the tug-at-the-heartstrings thing in a southern accent.

[Tricky]

And what's wrong with someone with a neutral accent saying, "This and this and this are what we are doing"? There's no need to do the tug-at-the-heartstrings thing in a southern accent.
There using people who are actually from the affected states. If you're from Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama, there's a pretty good chance you have a southern accent. As I said, in the one that used my friend Darryl Willis, that's what he actually sounds like.

[rwguinn]

So they're to be commended for doing the least they could do, which is to clean up the incredible mess their corner-cutting caused?

And what's wrong with someone with a neutral accent saying, "This and this and this are what we are doing"? There's no need to do the tug-at-the-heartstrings thing in a southern accent.
If you go looking for something to be insulted over, you can always find it.
And you definitely went looking if this accent offends you.

[steve s]

I heard a radio ad from BP in which they're reminding people that the employees at your local BP gas station are your neighbors, and if you boycott BP you'll be hurting them.

Steve S

[PogoPedant]

What's a neutral accent?

[ponderingturtle]

From what I can see, BP ***** up and ***** up big. Everybody ***** up, from individuals to big corporations. It's what you do after you *** up that matters. It looks to me as though BP is handling this as well as, or better than, any other company has who's been in a remotely commensurate situation. They're an easy target and will be for quite a while. But in the end, I think of all the companies this could have happened to, we're lucky it's BP (if that last statement makes even a lick of sense).

Moderated content removed.


The thing is that this is the third major **** up that they have had. They didn't seem to do much when their pipeline broke because they didn't bother to maintain it. Then when their refinery blew up killing a bunch of people they don't seem to have changed much after that.

So why should we think that this unlike the previous problems they have had from doing things in an improper manner will change anything?

[Stellafane]

So why should we think that this unlike the previous problems they have had from doing things in an improper manner will change anything?

Well, $10 billion (and counting) and a bit of negative publicity is probably fairly good motivation.

[Checkmite]

There using people who are actually from the affected states. If you're from Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama, there's a pretty good chance you have a southern accent. As I said, in the one that used my friend Darryl Willis, that's what he actually sounds like.


This. Come on, guys; BP employees in Louisiana are likely from Louisiana. The notion that BP went out of its way, or would even have had to go out of its way, to find someone specifically with a southern accent for PR sake isn't just cynical, it's kind of stupid. The spill is in the Gulf. You expect them to use someone from Minnesota for the ads instead?

If they did a commercial where Tricky was explaining that he would be there in the Gulf until the mess is cleaned up, would you be feeling all patronized?

[Tricky]

If they did a commercial where Tricky was explaining that he would be there in the Gulf until the mess is cleaned up, would you be feeling all patronized?
Probably. I have a southern accent. I'm from Alabama. Every summer when I was a child we'd go to my grandfather's cabin in Gulf Shores and play on the beautiful white sand beaches. I am heartbroken that those beaches are now dirty. I hope we will be able to make them recover. I'm sure going to try.

[Mycroft]

From what I can see, BP ***** up and ***** up big. Everybody ***** up, from individuals to big corporations. It's what you do after you *** up that matters. It looks to me as though BP is handling this as well as, or better than, any other company has who's been in a remotely commensurate situation. They're an easy target and will be for quite a while. But in the end, I think of all the companies this could have happened to, we're lucky it's BP (if that last statement makes even a lick of sense).

Moderated content removed.


Not entirely. What also matters is what steps you take not to **** to begin with. It's great that BP is making a huge effort to clean this up and is being very liberal with the checkbook for clean-up efforts and for people who's livelihoods were destroyed, but that's only a mitigating factor.
Edited, breach of Rule 10.


As for the ad, damned if you do, damned if you don't, I think. If they said nothing, people would probably be on them for not caring. If they had some suit in a British accent talking down to us, we'd accuse them of elitism or something. If it's jes' plain folks, threads like this happen. All I know is, BP is sure pumping a lot of money into the US because of this. That may or may not compensate for anything, but it's at least a start.

There is a lot of anger. While BP may be doing all the right things now, there is plenty of evidence that it was their egregious disregard for safety that caused the mess to begin with. I don't think doing all the right things after the fact absolves them of responsibility for negligence from before.

[PhantomWolf]

Meanwhile Halibuton is getting another free pass.....

[TraneWreck]

This. Come on, guys; BP employees in Louisiana are likely from Louisiana. The notion that BP went out of its way, or would even have had to go out of its way, to find someone specifically with a southern accent for PR sake isn't just cynical, it's kind of stupid. The spill is in the Gulf. You expect them to use someone from Minnesota for the ads instead?

If they did a commercial where Tricky was explaining that he would be there in the Gulf until the mess is cleaned up, would you be feeling all patronized?

Probably. I have a southern accent. I'm from Alabama. Every summer when I was a child we'd go to my grandfather's cabin in Gulf Shores and play on the beautiful white sand beaches. I am heartbroken that those beaches are now dirty. I hope we will be able to make them recover. I'm sure going to try.

This is the exact sort of psychology that leads people to charge opponents of the Wars with "hating the troops."

What's obnoxious about choosing a local worker to deliver the message is that it wasn't the workers that *** up in the first place. It was policy decisions at the top. THey tried having their goofy English and Swedish spokespeople have a go at it, and they embarrassed themselves. So now they're trying to immunize themselves from criticism by hiding behind the workers who 1) are trying to earn an honest living and 2) will really do everything they can to fix this disaster.

I feel the same level of eye-rolling annoyance (notice it's not "rage" or "anger") at the BP commercial as I do when criticisms of Donald Rumsfeld are met with, "So you want the terrorists to kill our soldiers?"

And no, the spill and the war aren't of the same magnitude, but the attempt to hide behind the non-decision makers is the same.

Edited, breach of Rule 10.

[TraneWreck]

Meanwhile Halibuton is getting another free pass.....

Absolutely.

At this point a Haliburton **** is about like another porn star claiming she hooked up with Tiger Woods. Just not a story anymore...

Edited, breach of Rule 10.

[Cavemonster]

Probably. I have a southern accent. I'm from Alabama. Every summer when I was a child we'd go to my grandfather's cabin in Gulf Shores and play on the beautiful white sand beaches. I am heartbroken that those beaches are now dirty. I hope we will be able to make them recover. I'm sure going to try.

Tricky, I'd really like your take on my point above, that BP as a company is using the honest feelings of employees like you as a shield to deflect anger directed at the upper management who caused this crisis. That's what's repugnant to me.

They're making arguments that boycotting the company will only hurt employees, but what option does that leave us with? The weapon that the general public has in a capitalist society to enforce it's will is to vote with our dollars. By this logic, we can never decide to stop patronizing any large business no matter how horrible the externalities they create are, because every large company has employees who genuinely care and need their jobs.

As someone else stated, it's similar to the tactic of twisting anti-war sentiment up with anti-troop sentiment.

[rwguinn]

Tricky, I'd really like your take on my point above, that BP as a company is using the honest feelings of employees like you as a shield to deflect anger directed at the upper management who caused this crisis. That's what's repugnant to me.

They're making arguments that boycotting the company will only hurt employees, but what option does that leave us with? The weapon that the general public has in a capitalist society to enforce it's will is to vote with our dollars. By this logic, we can never decide to stop patronizing any large business no matter how horrible the externalities they create are, because every large company has employees who genuinely care and need their jobs.

As someone else stated, it's similar to the tactic of twisting anti-war sentiment up with anti-troop sentiment.
How 'bout "The big wigs ********** up. Now it's up to us local folks to fix it"?

[Cavemonster]

How 'bout "The big wigs ********** up. Now it's up to us local folks to fix it"?

Ah, so those big wigs have been sacked?

[rwguinn]

Ah, so those big wigs have been sacked?
Well, the CEO, as well as the engineer/rep who was on the platform at the time, have been relieved of their duties...
Do you advocate cutting off your nose to spite your face, or is just people who actually do things, and thus occasionally make mistakes, that you hate?

[Furcifer]

Ah, so those big wigs have been sacked?

No, on the contrary, the CEO basically said everyone was following BP's company policy of skimping on safety and environmental measures until they are caught and fined or something blows up.

[Ferguson]

This is likely the ad in question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwfoOjnWdhQ&feature=related

[Cavemonster]

Well, the CEO, as well as the engineer/rep who was on the platform at the time, have been relieved of their duties...
Do you advocate cutting off your nose to spite your face, or is just people who actually do things, and thus occasionally make mistakes, that you hate?

Tony Hayward has not been relieved of his duties. He's not the point man for the cleanup capping effort, but Bob Dudley reports to him.

I think there is serious problem with characterizing the problem here as "occasionally mak(ing) mistakes". The risks were well known, investments in safety, prevention and preparedness were calculated. Regulation were very likely deliberately broken for the sake of profit. BP oil refineries were responsible for 97% of the wilful safety violations between 2007-2010. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP#2006.E2.80.932008:_Texas_City_refinery_fataliti es)




These people didn't accidentally leave the gas on or have a fender bender when not paying attention. They're on record throwing the safety of their own employees to the wolves, repeatedly. They wilfully and with full knowledge, gambled with the lives and livelihoods and environment that was not theirs to gamble with. This is not a momentary lapse of judgement.

[Cavemonster]

Well, $10 billion (and counting) and a bit of negative publicity is probably fairly good motivation.

They paid out nearly 1.5 billion just 5 years ago after a refinery explosion in Texas. Didn't phase them one bit. They continued the cost cutting and regulation breaking.

[Checkmite]

This is the exact sort of psychology that leads people to charge opponents of the Wars with "hating the troops."

What's obnoxious about choosing a local worker to deliver the message is that it wasn't the workers that *** up in the first place. It was policy decisions at the top. THey tried having their goofy English and Swedish spokespeople have a go at it, and they embarrassed themselves. So now they're trying to immunize themselves from criticism by hiding behind the workers who 1) are trying to earn an honest living and 2) will really do everything they can to fix this disaster.
Moderated content removed.

What a bunch of sanctimonious tripe. People like you refused to listen or belittled their earlier attempts at apologies from those very same "policy decision-makers at the top" as insincere. Who the hell in the company is left except the lower-level people? If those people, as you say "will really do everything they can to fix this disaster", why can't they be allowed to say so publicly on BP's dime? Do you think the "southern-accent-guy" in the commercial was lying about anything he said? If not, then get off your high-horse. At this point it sounds more like you're just looking for more reasons to be "outraged" at BP; I have a feeling you'd be up in arms like this over ANY PSA they made. Perhaps you'd like it better if they never said anything at all about what's going on?

[Tricky]

Tricky, I'd really like your take on my point above, that BP as a company is using the honest feelings of employees like you as a shield to deflect anger directed at the upper management who caused this crisis. That's what's repugnant to me.
Really, this crisis was, in all liklihood, caused by some poor decisions at a fairly low level. We drill hundreds of wells each year. Each well project has hundreds of people working on it. About all you can really blame upper management for is the general directive to control costs. At no time did management ever say or hint that we should do risky stuff in order to control costs. Just the opposite. But there is no possible way upper management can be in on every decision made. There are dozens made every day on every well.

Now like Tony, I'm not going to speculate on the actual cause of this until the final reports are in, but I can tell you two things that are almost certainly true. One, it was not one particular decision or part failure or contractor failure that caused this. It was many things. Two, decisions were made in committee by drilling engineers with input from other employees and contractors, but without input from upper management. It would be foolish for them to do so, because they are not specialists.

I know BP has has a string of accidents in the last few years. I cannot give you an answer on why this has happened, but it is not because BP values money more than safety. That is my honest opinion.


As someone else stated, it's similar to the tactic of twisting anti-war sentiment up with anti-troop sentiment.
And as some others have pointed out, we are trying to communicate. In spite of the fact that people are going to complain if a snotty Englisman speaks and they are going to complain if an sub-fluent English speaker subustutes "small people" for "the little guy", and they are going to complain if someone from the affected areas speaks with a southern accent, BP has never stopped communicating. They have not stonewalled. I can promise you that there has been no order from managemnt to "refrain from speaking to the press" and they have urged us to make sure we do not delete any significant documents.

The simple fact is that nothing we do is going to keep people from being infuriated. Everything we do will be criticized. We know that. We expect it. Still, we are working, as best we can, to win back trust. It won't come easy and it won't come soon, but we're not running and hiding. I'm not sure what more you want us to do.

Actually, I do know. Some people want us to go out of business. Nothing else will do for them. You really can't do anything for people like that.

[TraneWreck]

What a bunch of sanctimonious tripe. People like you refused to listen or belittled their earlier attempts at apologies from those very same "policy decision-makers at the top" as insincere. Who the hell in the company is left except the lower-level people? If those people, as you say "will really do everything they can to fix this disaster", why can't they be allowed to say so publicly on BP's dime? Do you think the "southern-accent-guy" in the commercial was lying about anything he said? If not, then get off your high-horse. At this point it sounds more like you're just looking for more reasons to be "outraged" at BP; I have a feeling you'd be up in arms like this over ANY PSA they made. Perhaps you'd like it better if they never said anything at all about what's going on?

Haha, what? What is my "high horse?" Being able to recognize a PR campaign? Yes, I continue to belittle their PR campaign because it's meaningless. I'm concerned with what actions they're taking. Blatantly lying about the amount of oil leaking is a bigger deal than an on-camera mea culpa.

Here's what I'd like to see from BP: "We are now drilling anticipatory relief wells on all of our deepwater rigs so nothing like this happens again."

Do you have any assurance that the shortcuts and lax oversight that led to this disaster aren't going on in other rigs? In every other rig?

This disaster occurred because of systematic abuse, neglect, and failure. BP lobbied to eliminate regulations, they bribed the regulators (and the regulators gladly accepted the bribes--many dirty hands here), and then when the disaster occurred they did everything they could to lie about the amount of oil spilling to reduce their liability.

Now there's a commercial with a worker dedicating himself to the clean up. This is an attempt by BP to use their workers as a smokescreen for their deviant, horrible corporate culture.

And we haven't even gotten into their role concerning the release of the Libyan terrorist.

I still don't understand the sanctimony here. When bad wars are fought, the troops are used to deflect criticism. When bad corporate culture is revealed, dedicated workers are used to deflect criticism. How is that "Feigned piety or righteousness; hypocritical devoutness or high-mindedness?" Where is the hypocrisy?

[Furcifer]

Here's what I'd like to see from BP: "We are now drilling anticipatory relief wells on all of our deepwater rigs so nothing like this happens again."


You want a company with BP's track record drilling MORE holes in the ocean floor :jaw-dropp

[TraneWreck]

I know BP has has a string of accidents in the last few years. I cannot give you an answer on why this has happened, but it is not because BP values money more than safety. That is my honest opinion.

Just as a though experiment, assuming for the sake of argument that BP really was taking shortcuts, misleading the public, expending millions of dollars lobbying for deregulation, a generally advancing profit over safety, what would have happened differently?

Would they have 1200 OSHA violations instead of 760? Would they still be lying about the amount of oil leaking out of the well? How would the Libyan situation have been handled? What would be different if they did value money more than safety?


The simple fact is that nothing we do is going to keep people from being infuriated. Everything we do will be criticized. We know that. We expect it. Still, we are working, as best we can, to win back trust. It won't come easy and it won't come soon, but we're not running and hiding. I'm not sure what more you want us to do.

If there was something BP could say to restore trust, then this wouldn't be a disaster. Words, regardless of the accent delivering them, won't change anything. Let's just observe the process. So far BP has only done well if Exxon is the model. Let's see if they stall payments in the courts for a decade, like Exxon, or if they actually pay for the damage they've caused.

That's the test.

[Darat]

...snip...

If they did a commercial where Tricky was explaining that he would be there in the Gulf until the mess is cleaned up, would you be feeling all patronized?


Nah if they used Tricky we'd know they were playing for the sympathy vote....

[ponderingturtle]

Tricky, I'd really like your take on my point above, that BP as a company is using the honest feelings of employees like you as a shield to deflect anger directed at the upper management who caused this crisis. That's what's repugnant to me.

They're making arguments that boycotting the company will only hurt employees, but what option does that leave us with? The weapon that the general public has in a capitalist society to enforce it's will is to vote with our dollars. By this logic, we can never decide to stop patronizing any large business no matter how horrible the externalities they create are, because every large company has employees who genuinely care and need their jobs.

As someone else stated, it's similar to the tactic of twisting anti-war sentiment up with anti-troop sentiment.

The problem is that if they can't sell gas at their stations they can just sell it on the open market. And it is not like they own the stations.

[Locknar]

I've had to edit several posts wrt Rule 10; let's watch the language folks...

[quarky]

Here's an idea for future spills:

A huge cruise liner ship is built; designed to gather surface slicks; separate the water, and run from the gathered oil.
The ship holds hundreds of paying tourists, that go along for the ride, in luxury.
The cleaning up pays for itself; the touristas have a good time, and feel like they're even helping.

There would be a special area on board wherein various birds and turtles and such were cleaned. The tourists could help with the task, if they wanted.

This ship needs to be built a.s.a.p.

[Checkmite]

Haha, what? What is my "high horse?" Being able to recognize a PR campaign?

No; just for being so outraged about it when it's really a non-issue. Most reasonable people, I believe, would allow that some kind of PR announcement is warranted or at least permissible given the circumstances. You, however, seem to think of it as evidence of how truly diabolical BP is. Your posts come off as if your finger is this close to the Caps Lock key.

[Tricky]

Here's an idea for future spills:

A huge cruise liner ship is built; designed to gather surface slicks; separate the water, and run from the gathered oil.
The ship holds hundreds of paying tourists, that go along for the ride, in luxury.
The cleaning up pays for itself; the touristas have a good time, and feel like they're even helping.

There would be a special area on board wherein various birds and turtles and such were cleaned. The tourists could help with the task, if they wanted.

This ship needs to be built a.s.a.p.What do you do with the ship in the many years between spills?

[TraneWreck]

No; just for being so outraged about it when it's really a non-issue. Most reasonable people, I believe, would allow that some kind of PR announcement is warranted or at least permissible given the circumstances. You, however, seem to think of it as evidence of how truly diabolical BP is. Your posts come off as if your finger is this close to the Caps Lock key.

Ah, I see. So the entire basis of your post was some sort of emotional projection. Notice what I wrote:


I feel the same level of eye-rolling annoyance (notice it's not "rage" or "anger") at the BP commercial...]

Yeah, that's "outrage." I would be less critical of BP if they had been honest about the spill from the beginning. Recall that they claimed 1,000 barrels were leaking a day and restricted access to their video feed. Once scientists were able to examine the video, weeks after the accident, they put the number much higher.

Here, a month after the accident, BP is still claiming only 5,000 barrels are escaping. Notice that with the caps, flow prediction is much better, and the scientists in this article are very right:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126809525

That's why I view the PR campaign cynically. Either BP is comically inept, which I doubt, or they were lying about the flow rate to reduce their liability. The EPA assesses fines based on the size of the spill. You do the math.

And yes, my fingers are very close to the cap key, my pinky is less than an inch away. It's just how my keyboard is built...

[ponderingturtle]

Ah, I see. So the entire basis of your post was some sort of emotional projection. Notice what I wrote:



Yeah, that's "outrage." I would be less critical of BP if they had been honest about the spill from the beginning. Recall that they claimed 1,000 barrels were leaking a day and restricted access to their video feed. Once scientists were able to examine the video, weeks after the accident, they put the number much higher.

And they still restricted access to their HD video feed, producing a lower quality video for the scientists to examine.

[Checkmite]

Yeah, that's "outrage." I would be less critical of BP if they had been honest about the spill from the beginning. Recall that they claimed 1,000 barrels were leaking a day and restricted access to their video feed. Once scientists were able to examine the video, weeks after the accident, they put the number much higher.

Here, a month after the accident, BP is still claiming only 5,000 barrels are escaping. Notice that with the caps, flow prediction is much better, and the scientists in this article are very right:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126809525

That's why I view the PR campaign cynically. Either BP is comically inept, which I doubt, or they were lying about the flow rate to reduce their liability. The EPA assesses fines based on the size of the spill. You do the math.

Quit with the obfuscation. Nothing in this thread has been about the PR "campaign"; all your ire has been directed specifically at this one commercial, which you seemed to claim was patronizing based on nothing more substantial than that the guy talking in it is a native of the Gulf region. All this talk about BP's initial public releases about the amount of oil or whatnot have nothing to do with this commercial being evidence of BP's villainism.

[richardm]

What do you do with the ship in the many years between spills?

Fill the boat with Norwegian and Japanese tourists. Modify the booms to have rotating knives and use them for culling whales. Run the engines off whale oil.

There would be a special area on board wherein seals and such were clubbed. The tourists could help with the task, if they wanted.

NB I suggest removing any BP logos before retooling the booms to avoid any potential PR difficulties; you wouldn't want the company to get a bad name.

[JimBenArm]

What do you do with the ship in the many years between spills?

You find board members of corporations and dip them in the water in front of the ship. Evidently, they are all slimy, oily creatures unworthy of the term "human".

[TraneWreck]

Quit with the obfuscation. Nothing in this thread has been about the PR "campaign"; all your ire has been directed specifically at this one commercial, which you seemed to claim was patronizing based on nothing more substantial than that the guy talking in it is a native of the Gulf region. All this talk about BP's initial public releases about the amount of oil or whatnot have nothing to do with this commercial being evidence of BP's villainism.

What on Earth are you talking about? Go read my first post in this thread. It is about the overall PR campaign, how useless it is in the face of BP's recent lies, and why I find it obnoxious in context.

You clearly have an emotional stake in this, for some reason, and are badly distorting my posts to fit this hysterical reaction of yours.

As for distorting, I welcome anyone to go read through this post again and see which of us is engaging in obfuscating behavior. But please, quote me at any point even mentioning the fellow in the commercial's accent. I never brought it up, not once.

You're just blindly hurling insults, often using words you don't really understand. You accused me of self-righteous hypocrisy (sanctimony), and when challenged, never bothered to explain what was hypocritical. I think you've seen other people use such words and found them impressive, but they have actual definitions and I assume you just want to insult me. I'd stick to four letters, were I you, less likely to make such childish mistakes.

[quarky]

What do you do with the ship in the many years between spills?

Weight-loss cruises, specializing in lipo-suction?

[quadraginta]

Weight-loss cruises, specializing in lipo-suction?


Bad idea. Imagine the PR consequences of a spill.

[Travis]

As far as I'm concerned calculating the flow rate from a video feed, HD or not, is just voo-doo science.

[Nogbad]

Ah BP, the soulless face of Britain. Keep on truckin' you amoral bastards.

:con2:

You guys love oil - we thought you'd be pleased to have so much of it.

[TraneWreck]

As far as I'm concerned calculating the flow rate from a video feed, HD or not, is just voo-doo science.

And yet the scientists who predicted the flow rate based on the video were proven very much correct by measurements taken when the oil was finally captured.

[Checkmite]

I think you've seen other people use such words and found them impressive, but they have actual definitions and I assume you just want to insult me.


Well shoot, you got me there.

[Elizabeth I]

Quit with the obfuscation. Nothing in this thread has been about the PR "campaign"; all your ire has been directed specifically at this one commercial, which you seemed to claim was patronizing based on nothing more substantial than that the guy talking in it is a native of the Gulf region. All this talk about BP's initial public releases about the amount of oil or whatnot have nothing to do with this commercial being evidence of BP's villainism.
Actually, that was me, and I stand by what I said. To me that commercial smacks of W in a flight suit on a carrier deck proclaiming "mission accomplished."

And my original post was something in the sense of a "last straw" thing - BP screwed around with the safety of people and the environment, repeatedly, and now that the thing has finally, inevitably blown up in their faces, they think that sending some guy out on a boat to cruise around and talk in a Southern accent should make us forgive and trust them and quit screaming for Tony Hayward's head on a platter.

[Travis]

And yet the scientists who predicted the flow rate based on the video were proven very much correct by measurements taken when the oil was finally captured.

I failed to mention that I think voo-doo is rock solid and irrefutable. :p

[I Ratant]

Ah, so those big wigs have been sacked?
.
The punishment of the innocent... those lower-tiered executives and worker bees has to done first, followed by the rewarding of the guilty.. the management types that did the foul deeds that resulted in the blow-out, despite warnings from below (the punished) about problems coming.

[I Ratant]

Fill the boat with Norwegian and Japanese tourists. Modify the booms to have rotating knives and use them for culling whales. Run the engines off whale oil.

There would be a special area on board wherein seals and such were clubbed. The tourists could help with the task, if they wanted.

NB I suggest removing any BP logos before retooling the booms to avoid any potential PR difficulties; you wouldn't want the company to get a bad name.
.
And include a trip along the Somali coast, with the passengers suitably armed to ward off boarders. :)
.
http://www.allsafedefense.com/Special_Pages/SomaliTourShip.htm
.

[TraneWreck]

I failed to mention that I think voo-doo is rock solid and irrefutable. :p

Who would argue with the gris-gris?

[Jekyll's Guest]

If it was really cynical, wouldn't the spokesperson be a mega-babe in a bikini, holding a power tool and explaining the next move?

she would be firing a 50 cal machine gun

God damn it!

I was going to do this pitch to BP in the morning, and you guys give it away for free.

I guess I'll have to go with the precocious, CGI tar-baby.

[Cain]

And yes, he truly is from Louisiana (as many of BPs staff are) and that really is his accent.

Buuuuuuuull****. By the sound of it I can not only tell he's a phony, but where he's really from. I backtraced it.

Edited profanity. See Rule 10.

[Jekyll's Guest]

Buuuuuuuull**** By the sound of it I can not only tell he's a phony, but where he's really from. I backtraced it.

http://goingconcern.com/_old/2009/08/27/mustache-ted-nugent.jpg

[funk de fino]

Frankly, this would be hard to know without actually being inside the confidential meetings being held there. This is a one of a kind disaster, so from the outside, it's impossible to know if possible solutions are being shot down or delayed because of reluctance to pay. The reason so much money is flowing out of BP is that the early attempts to stop the flow did not work. I don't attribute any nobility to it. They are dead as a company until they stop the oil from flowing out.

No, its just a bigger spill from a type of accident that has happened previously. Compare other companies reactions to previous spills and BP's reaction.

What we do know, from memos, is that of the 11 people killed in the blast, some of them may likely have survived if BP had bought the stronger shelters specifically designed to protect against such a blast, which they specifically declined to buy, instead opting for the cheapest shelters.

Shelters are part of the rig. BP hire the rig.

So we have a documentation of them putting profit above human lives in a gamble and losing those lives. I am less apt to give them the benefit of the doubt in their other actions.

Check all the other companies drilling in the US before you cast stones. Their spill plans were just as inadequate and they would be using the same rigs.

[funk de fino]

Actually, that was me, and I stand by what I said. To me that commercial smacks of W in a flight suit on a carrier deck proclaiming "mission accomplished."

And my original post was something in the sense of a "last straw" thing - BP screwed around with the safety of people and the environment, repeatedly, and now that the thing has finally, inevitably blown up in their faces, they think that sending some guy out on a boat to cruise around and talk in a Southern accent should make us forgive and trust them and quit screaming for Tony Hayward's head on a platter.

I think they probably want some morons to see that there is a US element to this disaster. As far as I remember there are 30,000 direct US BP employees.

At first they did not like the English "toff" talking down to them, now they do not like the "fake" yank talking to them.

[MarkCorrigan]

:con2:

You guys love oil - we thought you'd be pleased to have so much of it.

I'm British too. ;)

Tricky, I echo some of what has been said. I think that the overall management of the company BP are absolute amoral bastards who really don't care in the slightest. They rack up saftey violations like most people rack up breaths. It's a joke to think that they are in any way as bad as any company with less violations. Sure, they might well do a better job cleaning up the mess they made, but they still make a shocking amount of the total mess.

[quarky]

Probably. I have a southern accent. I'm from Alabama. Every summer when I was a child we'd go to my grandfather's cabin in Gulf Shores and play on the beautiful white sand beaches. I am heartbroken that those beaches are now dirty. I hope we will be able to make them recover. I'm sure going to try.

I wish I didn't know about your accent. Now, whenever I read a post of yours, I'll have to add the accent. And, if I'm ever admonished by you, in an official capacity, I'll be forced to add the Southern State Trouper attitude.

Back on topic,

I have complete trust that all forces are working at maximum effort. Its completely to their advantage to do so.

The blame game, if their is one, should be worked on a bit later so that it doesn't suck-up too much of B.P.'s resources, or the Government's brain power. I feel for Tricky in this, and not just as a suck-up.
I also love those waters, and have a southern hillbilly accent; though I can do new England college professor if I have to.

I ask this general question:
Has there ever been a peace-time effort of this scale to stop an environmental problem? I don't know, but I can't think of one off-hand.

And one specific question: The relief wells that are being drilled seem to be for the purpose of plugging up the hole. Why can't they be used to keep that pool on line; gather it in the usual way; relieve that pressure, etc.?
Seems like there's a lot of oil down there.

[Tricky]

I wish I didn't know about your accent. Now, whenever I read a post of yours, I'll have to add the accent. And, if I'm ever admonished by you, in an official capacity, I'll be forced to add the Southern State Trouper attitude.
Well, it's not pure southern. It's been modified by working for BP for thirty years. Think Andy Griffith doing the dead parrot sketch.

And one specific question: The relief wells that are being drilled seem to be for the purpose of plugging up the hole. Why can't they be used to keep that pool on line; gather it in the usual way; relieve that pressure, etc.?
Seems like there's a lot of oil down there.
That is indeed likely. The first thing, though, is to get the oil stopped and evaluate the damage as well as possible. One thing to note is that this was a field that was not yet being produced. Even had the well been completed, it would have been tested and shut-in (probably). Producing the field is a very complex science that requires that you tap certain parts first and others later in order to maintain formation pressure.

But in all liklihood, this well will never be used for production. There is probably a great amount of formation damage from the unrestricted flow. You see, oil flow in completed wells is restricted or "choked" for any number of reasons to optimize flow, or to keep the reservoir from collapsing from differential pressure between sections. It's a lot more complex than that, but I'm not qualified to give you a better description. However, if it looks like this well can be used, then it will. Shutting a well in is a temporary step and allows it to be re-entered.

[Tricky]

Buuuuuuuull****. By the sound of it I can not only tell he's a phony, but where he's really from. I backtraced it.
Right, Professor Higgins. You are familiar with every form of southern accent and you are certain that a person's accent cannot be modified by factors other than their place of birth. :rolleyes:

[JimBenArm]

Right, Professor Higgins. You are familiar with every form of southern accent and you are certain that a person's accent cannot be modified by factors other than their place of birth. :rolleyes:

My sister, born and raised in Kansas City, has lived in Louisiana for 30 years. She's picked up a bit of a Cajun accent over that time. Don't know if it's just an affect on her part, but it's there.

[Tricky]

Let's put the acrimony on hold for a few minutes. I agree, this is pretty funny.
2AAa0gd7ClM

[Howie Felterbush]

None of those people has Southern accents...

What are you trying to pull on us Tricky?

[Tricky]

I'm not trying to pull anything. It was Halliburton.

[Checkmite]

Actually, that was me, and I stand by what I said. To me that commercial smacks of W in a flight suit on a carrier deck proclaiming "mission accomplished."

And my original post was something in the sense of a "last straw" thing - BP screwed around with the safety of people and the environment, repeatedly, and now that the thing has finally, inevitably blown up in their faces, they think that sending some guy out on a boat to cruise around and talk in a Southern accent should make us forgive and trust them and quit screaming for Tony Hayward's head on a platter.

Oh, so YOU'RE the one, not him. I blame you for confusing me.

Anyway; where was I? Oh yes:

Most reasonable people, I believe, would allow that some kind of PR announcement is warranted or at least permissible given the circumstances. You, however, seem to think of it as evidence of how truly diabolical BP is. Your posts come off as if your finger is this close to the Caps Lock key.

Well no, you don't really appear to be ranting. But you certainly seem just as prone as I am to hyperbole. Again, the people who live in Louisiana are going to talk like people who live in Louisiana. Are you suggesting that, in order to appear "less smacking of mission accomplished", they should've flown in somebody from Michigan or New Hampshire to do the commercial, rather than the person who's actually in charge of the cleanup?

[Checkmite]

I'm not trying to pull anything. It was Halliburton.


Confirmed an employee of a major Corporation using the term "pull" in a matter related to demolition.

[I Ratant]

I'm not trying to pull anything. It was Halliburton.
.
LOL!
Betcha H. DID have a oar in there too!

[funk de fino]

I'm British too. ;)

Tricky, I echo some of what has been said. I think that the overall management of the company BP are absolute amoral bastards who really don't care in the slightest. They rack up saftey violations like most people rack up breaths. It's a joke to think that they are in any way as bad as any company with less violations. Sure, they might well do a better job cleaning up the mess they made, but they still make a shocking amount of the total mess.

The problem is if you actually look at the reports, most of the other companies had more violations and more repeat ones. The reporting of violations is skewed against BP. Funnily enough.

[TraneWreck]

Let's put the acrimony on hold for a few minutes. I agree, this is pretty funny.
2AAa0gd7ClM

I think we can all agree that the best thing to come out of this mess is the phrase "junk shot."

[ZirconBlue]

From my perspective, I'm not sure that any ads right now are going to go over well. My preferred action plan for BP: Continue busting your ass to stop and clean up the leak. Continue making sure compensation claims are made quickly and fairly to those impacted. Worry about rebuilding your image after the bulk of the clean up efforts are behind us.


There is nobody in the world who wants this cleaned up more than BP folks.

Let's not go overboard. We'll never know for sure without a Want-O-Meter, but I suspect that there are people whose livelihoods have been devastated by this disaster who "want" it more than BP folks.

What's a neutral accent?

The one newscasters typically adopt.

[Nogbad]

I'm British too. ;)



:) Ooops so you are

Obviously BP are gits - they are an oil company. I think it is compulsory or something.

[Tricky]

From my perspective, I'm not sure that any ads right now are going to go over well. My preferred action plan for BP: Continue busting your ass to stop and clean up the leak. Continue making sure compensation claims are made quickly and fairly to those impacted. Worry about rebuilding your image after the bulk of the clean up efforts are behind us.
Do you mean stony silence, or speak only when spoken to? Frankly I think most people appreciate communication.

Let's not go overboard. We'll never know for sure without a Want-O-Meter, but I suspect that there are people whose livelihoods have been devastated by this disaster who "want" it more than BP folks.
You think BP employees won't be devastated if the company, because it did a lousy job of cleaning up, is forced out of the US market? I'm sweatin' bullets, man.

The one newscasters typically adopt.They always sound phony to me. Who the hell really talks like that?

[ZirconBlue]

Do you mean stony silence, or speak only when spoken to? Frankly I think most people appreciate communication.

We've been getting plenty of communication that's reported on pretty much daily. I'm just talking about PR-type activities.


You think BP employees won't be devastated if the company, because it did a lousy job of cleaning up, is forced out of the US market? I'm sweatin' bullets, man.

I'm sure they will, and I'm sure you are. But, some of the Gulf Coast residents have already been devastated.

They always sound phony to me. Who the hell really talks like that?

I think I do. Not in newspeak, but in a general lack of accent.

[Rolfe]

I think I do. Not in newspeak, but in a general lack of accent.


Now I have to say that is delusional. Everybody has an accent.

Rolfe.

[Tricky]

Now I have to say that is delusional. Everybody has an accent.
I was living in Alabama when Jimmy Carter was elected. Some wag in a local paper said, "Finally, a President without an accent."

[Rolfe]

As far as I'm concerned, you all have American accents. I would struggle to separate you by state or region, but American, that I can recognise.

I recall as a child, a schoolmate saying how glad she was she didn't have a Scottish accent like her granny. In fact her granny was speaking Scots, not English, but at the time it was fashionable to discourage children from speaking their native tongue. I remarked that I rather suspected anyone from England would consider that both of us had Scottish accents.

The closer a particular accent is to your own, the finer you can place it. But everybody has an accent.

Rolfe.

[I Ratant]

Now I have to say that is delusional. Everybody has an accent.

Rolfe.
.
I spent a few years in Caroline County in VA. Not that far south from Wash. DC.
A couple years after moving to the DC area, I had to go back to Caroline for the draft physical for the Cuban Missile Crisis.
I found the local dialect nearly impossible to understand after only a few years away.
That Southern Drawl can be a killer for comprehension.
Didn't hear anything like it in the BP commercial.

[Elizabeth I]

Oh, so YOU'RE the one, not him. I blame you for confusing me.

Anyway; where was I? Oh yes:

Most reasonable people, I believe, would allow that some kind of PR announcement is warranted or at least permissible given the circumstances. You, however, seem to think of it as evidence of how truly diabolical BP is. Your posts come off as if your finger is this close to the Caps Lock key.

Well no, you don't really appear to be ranting. But you certainly seem just as prone as I am to hyperbole. Again, the people who live in Louisiana are going to talk like people who live in Louisiana. Are you suggesting that, in order to appear "less smacking of mission accomplished", they should've flown in somebody from Michigan or New Hampshire to do the commercial, rather than the person who's actually in charge of the cleanup?
Well, actually I work in PR, and yes, some kind of statement from the company would be, if not required, certainly strongly recommended. It always fascinates me why almost no one will follow the Tylenol model: admit responsibility, apologize, tell people explicitly what you're going to do (e.g., we will close the plant and cease production of Tylenol until we can figure out how this happened and how to prevent it in the future), then come back periodically and tell them explicitly what you have done and what kind of success your efforts have had. It worked for Tylenol and is still considered a textbook case of crisis communication, but unfortunately most companies seem to consider that stonewalling first and lying next is the way to go.

BP had their CEO whining about wanting his life back and people understating the rate of flow after the blowout, and then all of a sudden some guy from the south talking vaguely about booms and skimmers. I will admit that in the latest commercial they did give an estimate of how many gallons or barrels or whatever it was of oil, and that's a step in the right direction when it comes to communication. Again, I think it's too little, too late, and it looks to me as if they're trying to deflect criticism by having it delivered in a regional accent.

[Furcifer]

It always fascinates me why almost no one will follow the Tylenol model: admit responsibility, apologize, tell people explicitly what you're going to do (e.g., we will close the plant and cease production of Tylenol until we can figure out how this happened and how to prevent it in the future), then come back periodically and tell them explicitly what you have done and what kind of success your efforts have had.

Because they have no intention of doing so. I think we've come to a point in history where the companies weigh the cost and probability of the fine against operating in the margins.

People are too busy to remember. Are you going to pass a BP station when you need gas because of this? I bet statistically no you won't.

The bean counters know if they keep the price of unleaded at $0.99/g over the long weekend they will make up the difference by Easter 2011.

[ponderingturtle]

I'm sure they will, and I'm sure you are. But, some of the Gulf Coast residents have already been devastated.


But they are getting free oil handouts from BP, what more do they want?

[richardm]

But they are getting free oil handouts from BP, what more do they want?

If gasoline is really only 99c a gallon, how is that a bonus? In the UK it is £5.40 a gallon. Really BP should have a massive oil spill here where it would be properly appreciated.

[Tricky]

Since this thread is about the media and BP, I'm hoping this isn't too far off topic.

There was an accident at BP today. I witnessed it. Not a terrible accident. it was just a fender-bender in the parking lot, but it could have been avoided. One car was speeding, ignoring the clearly marked signs and running a stop sign at a cross-walk. It hit another car coming out the "drive-through" in the middle of the lot. Wouldn't you know it, the press was there immediately. The press was there immediately because the jerk that was speeding was a member of the press who was probably at our office reporting on what careless jerks BP are. (At least, that's what I'm guessing from the ID sticker from a local TV station. He spoke with a "neutral accent".)

Nobody hurt, no serious damage, fortunately. About all that might happen is that that car will be prohibited from parking in the deck, since I reported its tag number. I'm pretty sure you won't even see anything on the news about it.

[quarky]

Since this thread is about the media and BP, I'm hoping this isn't too far off topic.

There was an accident at BP today. I witnessed it. Not a terrible accident. it was just a fender-bender in the parking lot, but it could have been avoided. One car was speeding, ignoring the clearly marked signs and running a stop sign at a cross-walk. It hit another car coming out the "drive-through" in the middle of the lot. Wouldn't you know it, the press was there immediately. The press was there immediately because the jerk that was speeding was a member of the press who was probably at our office reporting on what careless jerks BP are. (At least, that's what I'm guessing from the ID sticker from a local TV station. He spoke with a "neutral accent".)

Nobody hurt, no serious damage, fortunately. About all that might happen is that that car will be prohibited from parking in the deck, since I reported its tag number. I'm pretty sure you won't even see anything on the news about it.

This is where I get all my news.

Are you blaming the press?

[richardm]

I haven't seen $0.99/gal gas in years. Well, I saw a sign for gas at that price yesterday, but it was a sign for a gas station that was torn down years ago. I think the current national average is around $2.80. Much higher in some places, lower in others, of course.

The bean counters know if they keep the price of unleaded at $0.99/g over the long weekend they will make up the difference by Easter 2011.

3bodyproblem must be spoiled ;)

[ZirconBlue]

3bodyproblem must be spoiled ;)

Maybe he meant $0.99 per gram.

[EHocking]

..Again, I think it's too little, too late, and it looks to me as if they're trying to deflect criticism by having it delivered in a regional accent.Sorry for just jumping in like this, but I read an interesting article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7900490/People-are-suspicious-of-foreigners-because-they-do-not-trust-their-accents-research-claims.html)today on the subject.
Shiri Lev-Ari, co-author of "Why Don't We Believe Non-native Speakers? The Influence of Accent on Credibility", said: "Accent might reduce the credibility of non-native job seekers, eyewitnesses, reporters or people taking calls in foreign call centers."

As part of the research, published in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, American participants were asked to judge the truthfulness of trivia statements by native or non-native speakers of English, such as, "A giraffe can go without water longer than a camel can."

Even though they knew the speakers were reciting from a script, they were less likely to believe what was said by those speaking with a foreign accent.

[quadraginta]

[quote=Elizabeth I;6144546]..Again, I think it's too little, too late, and it looks to me as if they're trying to deflect criticism by having it delivered in a regional accent.Sorry for just jumping in like this, but I read an interesting article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7900490/People-are-suspicious-of-foreigners-because-they-do-not-trust-their-accents-research-claims.html)today on the subject.
Shiri Lev-Ari, co-author of "Why Don't We Believe Non-native Speakers? The Influence of Accent on Credibility", said: "Accent might reduce the credibility of non-native job seekers, eyewitnesses, reporters or people taking calls in foreign call centers."

As part of the research, published in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, American participants were asked to judge the truthfulness of trivia statements by native or non-native speakers of English, such as, "A giraffe can go without water longer than a camel can."

Even though they knew the speakers were reciting from a script, they were less likely to believe what was said by those speaking with a foreign accent.


Sad to say, for much of the U.S. "Southern" is a foreign accent. :p

:(

[Furcifer]

3bodyproblem must be spoiled ;)

hehe, kinda subconsciously did that. It's $0.99/l right now. I was trying to imagine a cheap US price that would get people to buy. I suppose $1.99/g would do it.

[I Ratant]

Don't understand Frog Yards anyway.