Wristwatch Damaged by Heat at Stonehenge?

[Rodney]

I recently visited Stonehenge and was told by the tour guide, Steve Evans (http://steve-tourguide.com) that a few weeks ago his rather expensive watch stopped working there as he conducted an "inner circle" tour (walking among the stones -- not permitted on most tours). He says that he sent the watch for repairs, and was told that the repair cost would be 170 pounds (about 210 Euros or 275 American dollars), as the internal parts of the watch had been damaged by heat. He claims to be a skeptic about the paranormal, but says that he is unable to account for how his watch could have been damaged by heat.

[Furcifer]

Heat=evaporation=moisture?

[Giggywig]

Maybe he was telling what he though made for an interesting story so that you would recommend him to your friends?

[Monketey Ghost]

Maybe he's lying his wristwatch off.

[Moon-Spinner]

I suspect he's been telling that story for as long as he's been a tour guide.

[KingMerv00]

So the watch was damaged by heat but his wrist wasn't scorched?

[Apology]

Maybe he left it by the heater the night before and didn't notice it wasn't running when he got up. Or, maybe he's a typical tour guide for a mysterious woo place and knows that spinning a good yarn makes for better tips at the end of the tour. Only the all-knowing spirits of the stones know which it is.

[Jonquill]

Dodgy watch repairer?

[tsig]

I recently visited Stonehenge and was told by the tour guide, Steve Evans (http://steve-tourguide.com) that a few weeks ago his rather expensive watch stopped working there as he conducted an "inner circle" tour (walking among the stones -- not permitted on most tours). He says that he sent the watch for repairs, and was told that the repair cost would be 170 pounds (about 210 Euros or 275 American dollars), as the internal parts of the watch had been damaged by heat. He claims to be a skeptic about the paranormal, but says that he is unable to account for how his watch could have been damaged by heat.


Where would a tour guide get an expensive watch?

What kind of heat damage?

[TubbaBlubba]

Heat=evaporation=moisture?

Non sequitur. Evaporation makes something cooler. It's why you sweat.

[leon_heller]

How can heat damage the internal parts of a watch, without damaging the rest of it? What evidence is there that any part of the watch was damaged by heat? Did you see the repair bill? £170 for that sort of repair to a quality watch doesn't sound right, it should be a lot more.

[Apology]

So the watch was damaged by heat but his wrist wasn't scorched?

That explanation is far, far too simple. Must have been fairies.

[Mongrel]

Also add that 'expensive' isn't a synonym for 'well made' or 'robust'

[Hellbound]

What kind of heat damage?

Lasers.

I suspect sharks were inviolved.

Or at least really mean-tempered sea bass

[Akhenaten]

http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/AntiWatchHeatRound.jpg

[fuelair]

Lasers.

I suspect sharks were inviolved.

Or at least really mean-tempered sea bass

:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp "Telegram!:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp




Land Shark

[Skeptical Greg]

unable to account for = paranormal

Mystery solved ...

[ohp]

Well, typically, there's a lack of information. we don't even know what kind of watch it was do we? What if it was a coal fired watch?

It's quite possible to have some parts of something heat up more than others, or for a watch to heat up internally, and not transmit significant amounts of heat to the wearer. Both electronic and mechanical watches are a mix of insulators and metals of varying conductivity. You only need heat to build up on the wrong side of an insulator and a small amount of heat can do a lot of damage.

If it's an electronic watch, I'd go for a lithium battery short. If it's a mechanical watch, I'd go for it being left out in the sun, such that the face acts as a combination greenhouse and magnifying glass.

There you go, problem solved. Next!

[WanderingSkeptic]

Tour Guide + Tall tail = gossip and thus generates more punters

Its not paranormal, its just business.

[ohp]

Tour Guide + Tall tail = gossip and thus generates more punters

Its not paranormal, its just business.

I don't think a heat damaged watch is necessarily a tall tale. But lets look at it.... If you are a tour guide in the UK, and you own a watch, then should your watch break, the chances that it'll break at a historic monument are rather high.

I suspect it has a basis in fact, but has been blown up to seem more mysterious than it is.

[Bikewer]

A defective, shorted battery would account for the described condition.....

[Big Les]

I love giving guided tours, and I can see why so many tour guides get carried away and end up talking utter tosh. Because most of them do. Some tours of historic sites I've been on have been basically urban myth bingo. It would be fascinating to do a study to see how basically sound scripts morph into palpable arsegravy after just a few years in the re-telling.

The problem is a total lack of critical thought and an emphasis on the sensational. The basic, verifiable facts of even the most amazing site are usually very few. Hence the embellishment. Archaeologist's theories about a place are bad enough (though based on sound evidence) without resorting to folklore or just plain making stuff up.

As for Steve, he's a Blue Badge Guide. The last one I met was at pains to point out to me that telling 'a good story' was a lot more important than 'the facts'. He actually wanted me to weave him a story about the artefact he'd brought in for identification.

[WanderingSkeptic]

I don't think a heat damaged watch is necessarily a tall tale. But lets look at it.... If you are a tour guide in the UK, and you own a watch, then should your watch break, the chances that it'll break at a historic monument are rather high.

I suspect it has a basis in fact, but has been blown up to seem more mysterious than it is.
Perhaps you are correct ... but its the Stonehenge link that makes me highly suspicious

[ohp]

Perhaps you are correct ... but its the Stonehenge link that makes me highly suspicious

I bet if his car had broken down within 2 days of visiting stonehenge, that would the story that became embellished instead.

You probably find that's the story he told, until his watch broke, then he just upgraded.

[leon_heller]

It's a bit reminiscent of Geller's TV programmes during which viewers' non-working watches suddenly started working.

[Darat]

I recently visited Stonehenge and was told by the tour guide, Steve Evans (http://steve-tourguide.com) that a few weeks ago his rather expensive watch stopped working there as he conducted an "inner circle" tour (walking among the stones -- not permitted on most tours). He says that he sent the watch for repairs, and was told that the repair cost would be 170 pounds (about 210 Euros or 275 American dollars), as the internal parts of the watch had been damaged by heat. He claims to be a skeptic about the paranormal, but says that he is unable to account for how his watch could have been damaged by heat.

The answer to that is a simple "and?".

Also is there meant to be a link between his watch, some old stones that no one knows what they were used for, how they were used or why they were placed there and the paranormal?

[paximperium]

Sucker!!!

[shadron]

Nothing for it but that he continue wearing it until it starts back up in some future dive into the inner sanctum.

[George152]

Nanothermite !

[leon_heller]

Perhaps it's an early symptom of spontaneous human combustion, and he'll be found one morning done to a turn.

[Sledge]

Nothing for it but that he continue wearing it until it starts back up in some future dive into the inner sanctum.

:eek: Experience tells me it's best to remove watches and other jewellery before diving into someone's inner sanctum.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I see by "Britain's Highest Recorded Temperatures for Each Month of the Year, 1875 To 2006" at: http://www.torro.org.uk/TORRO/britwxextremes/maxtemps.php

That a high of 35.6C(96.1F) was recorded at Trowbridge, Wiltshire on 2 July 1976.

Scarcely enough to fry an egg. :cool:

[RoboTimbo]

If the watch had been heat damaged before and some effect of Stonehenge had repaired it, that might be interesting.

[fromdownunder]

If the watch had been heat damaged before and some effect of Stonehenge had repaired it, that might be interesting.

But everybody knows that broken watches only repair themselves in Crop Circles.

Norm

[Beanbag]

Quartz or mechanical watch? LCD or analog (with hands) if quartz? As said above, not nearly enough information.

FYI, figure the cost of a complete service of a high-grade mechanical watch to be roughly ten percent (one tenth) of the purchase price. That's assuming nothing stupid has been done to the watch, like letting it get full of sea water and then letting it sit for a few weeks.

Watches with LCD displays can have a "greenhouse" effect if the display is left facing the full sun on a hot day.

There isn't too much to be heat-damaged in a mechanical watch. Everything inside is either steel, elinvar, brass, or fused aluminum oxide (the friction jeweling). The oils might degrade at high temperature, and the shellac used to secure certain jewels in position might melt or soften, but I can't see any way of having a mechanical watch overheat on a wrist and the owners' hand still be attached to the arm. I mean, you'd notice that amount of heat.

Watches stop all the time for no apparent reason. Either that battery you put in four years ago finally died, or the cologne you wear has finally permeated through the gaskets and turned the lubricating oil to tar (this happens more frequently than you'd think).

Beanbag

[Olowkow]

Watches stop all the time for no apparent reason. Either that battery you put in four years ago finally died, or the cologne you wear has finally permeated through the gaskets and turned the lubricating oil to tar (this happens more frequently than you'd think).

...or, the oscillatory sphagnum energy of quantum granitic molecular balance of the spheres producing gravitational hermeticity only found at Stonehenge turns the metal parts to stone.

[Furcifer]

Non sequitur. Evaporation makes something cooler. It's why you sweat.

Even water resistant watches, defined by their ability to withstand about 30m of head, are notoriously bad at getting moisture in them.

So..heat makes you sweat which gets in the watch, sequitor ;)

"Heat damage" isn't exactly the way i would put it, but if repairman was legit he may have glossed over the middle part and said that was the cause. Especially if it was during a heatwave.

[Beanbag]

BTW, a lot of so-called "broken" mechanical watches can be magically re-started simply by holding them in your hands for a few minutes. Why? Well, the majority of wind-up watch stoppages are caused by poor or bad lubrication (i.e. the oil has "soured" or thickened to wax). People will put a full wind on the watch, which doesn't run, and they will put it aside. Now, if you hold a watch in your hands, you are doing two things to it: you're warming it (which causes the oils to thin and soften), and you're shaking it (it's impossible to hold a watch perfectly still), which introduces motion and oscillation in the system. In a lot of cases, you will reach a point where the oil gets warm enough where the induced motion causes the wheel train to break free and overcome the blockage.

This doesn't work for most quartz watches, however; just the ones you wind.

Beanbag

[Rodney]

The answer to that is a simple "and?".

Also is there meant to be a link between his watch, some old stones that no one knows what they were used for, how they were used or why they were placed there and the paranormal?
Possibly -- who knows? If the story as related happened to you, what would your reaction be?

[paximperium]

Possibly -- who knows? If the story as related happened to you, what would your reaction be?
Apathy and semi-amusement at being sold a nice tall tale during a vacation.
What was yours?

[Rodney]

Apathy and semi-amusement at being sold a nice tall tale during a vacation.
What was yours?
Interest in finding out more details and getting other people's opinions as to what may have occurred. I doubt if it was a "nice tall tale", although there might be a relatively simple explanation as to what happened.

[tsig]

Lasers.

I suspect sharks were inviolved.

Or at least really mean-tempered sea bass

You mean the dreaded land shark?

Candygram!!

[tsig]

:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp "Telegram!:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp




Land Shark

May there be a fuelair explosion.:boxedin:

[tsig]

Tour Guide + Tall tail = gossip and thus generates more punters

Its not paranormal, its just business.

You mean there was monkey business involved?

[Mojo]

Apathy and semi-amusement at being sold a nice tall tale during a vacation.
What was yours?Interest in finding out more details...


Did you ask him for more details?

[leon_heller]

Rodney is rather gullible. I remember having a lengthy discussion with him about the PEAR people's collective consciousness experiments, which he seemed to think showed meaningful results.

[Darat]

Possibly -- who knows? If the story as related happened to you, what would your reaction be?

As I said - just an "and?" - I wouldn't understand why he was telling me this, it would seem to have no connection to his job as a guide for an ancient monument.

[paximperium]

Interest in finding out more details and getting other people's opinions as to what may have occurred. Why are you asking people here about what happened to someone else?
Did you ask for more details?

I doubt if it was a "nice tall tale", although there might be a relatively simple explanation as to what happened.Yes.
1)He told a story to gullible tourist.
2)It never happened.
3)He was mistakened about the correlation
etc etc etc

[Darat]

Of course it could have happened when the Pandorica was opened - there was a lot of stuff flying around Stonehenge that night. Did he mention any of that?

[Pixel42]

Of course it could have happened when the Pandorica was opened - there was a lot of stuff flying around Stonehenge that night. Did he mention any of that?
I must admit that was my first thought. :D

I once did a coach tour of Tenerife with a tour guide who talked total ******** about Tenerife being Atlantis for most of the trip. And ISTR a tour of the Lake District which included a stone circle which also prompted some woo from the guide.

[Ladewig]

I doubt if it was a "nice tall tale",

Why do you doubt that possibility?

[Aepervius]

I recently visited Stonehenge and was told by the tour guide, Steve Evans (http://steve-tourguide.com) that a few weeks ago his rather expensive watch stopped working there as he conducted an "inner circle" tour (walking among the stones -- not permitted on most tours). He says that he sent the watch for repairs, and was told that the repair cost would be 170 pounds (about 210 Euros or 275 American dollars), as the internal parts of the watch had been damaged by heat. He claims to be a skeptic about the paranormal, but says that he is unable to account for how his watch could have been damaged by heat.

I have read that story somewhere else, maybe this forum. If it is the same (IF) then it all boil down to personal belief without any evidence.

[Fox]

His watch could've stopped working before he went to check the time you know? :p

[paximperium]

I'm betting he was struck by lightning but can't remember the event because of the insuing seizure and amnesia.

[DC]

Uri Geller can fix the watch much cheaper :D

[Spoons]

Perhaps you are correct ... but its the Stonehenge link that makes me highly suspicious

I once went the best part of a week without my mobile ringing (yes, I'm clearly a loser), then when I went for a walk I stopped at the pub for a pint. I went to take a leak and while at the urinal my phone rang.

Suspicious?

I now turn my phone off before I hit the mens room. Just in case.

Tour guides are often people who fancy themselves as entertainers, not just educators. There are people who report being told by tour guides that the Mayan calendar stuff means pending doom too. They are also full of it.

[Cuddles]

Even water resistant watches, defined by their ability to withstand about 30m of head, are notoriously bad at getting moisture in them.

Mine turned out to be quite good at getting moisture in it.:)

[MRC_Hans]

Mine turned out to be quite good at getting moisture in it.:)

'Watertight' usually means 'water cannot get out'.

On the story: Even if all is factual, it means little. There could be many explanations, all entirely naturalistic. Add a bit of fantasy and all is posssible.

Hans

[Dave Rogers]

I was at Stonehenge on Saturday - it's a good place to stop for a coffee on the A303 - and, although my watch was fine, the combination of a sunny day and a radical haircut the day before resulted in severe thermal damage to the skin on the tops of my ears. So there's at least some kind of existence theorem to work from.

Dave

[MG1962]

I am still getting my head around the fact somewhere in England could get hot enough in the first place

[Marduk]

I've experienced paranormal events at stonehenge
I was visiting with a g/f late one night and we saw unexplained lights, tall dark figures, heard rushing noises and a strange disembodied voice adressing us from the darkness

It was spooky
:D

Rodney is rather gullible.

No, hes a complete nonsense spouting woo, with no critical thinking skills
theres a difference
:D

[Spoons]

Apparently it's cosmic rays (or secondaries) screwing with the Toyota brakes, so maybe they're the culprit here too?

Cosmic Ray wrecked my watch. Can't trust him.

[Rodney]

Why do you doubt that possibility?
The way he presented the story. He was talking about the "Druids" who hang out at Stonehenge, and told the tour group that there was no evidence that they are descendants of the folks who built Stonehenge. He then stated that he was a skeptic about the paranormal, but that he had this interesting experience recently. He presented it briefly, with no mention of his services being available for "inner circle" tours of Stonehenge. When I asked him during a break for more details, he gave me a few and provided his e-mail address. I just e-mailed him yesterday, and will let you know if/when he responds.

[Spoons]

But whenever people want to present a paranormal idea and sound convincing they always seem to say something like that.
"I'm the last person to believe this stuff blindly, but..."

It does make the story sound a pinch better saying that, so I can see why they would.

[Dave Rogers]

He then stated that he was a skeptic about the paranormal, but that he had this interesting experience recently.

This is commonly known as "The Mark of Woo". Anyone saying "I don't really believe in this stuff, but..." is usually very much more of a believer than they like to think.

Dave

[Spoons]

*ahem*

[Dave Rogers]

Wow, I don't normally believe in synchronicity, but I can't explain the bizarre resemblance between those posts!

Dave

[tsig]

The way he presented the story. He was talking about the "Druids" who hang out at Stonehenge, and told the tour group that there was no evidence that they are descendants of the folks who built Stonehenge. He then stated that he was a skeptic about the paranormal, but that he had this interesting experience recently. He presented it briefly, with no mention of his services being available for "inner circle" tours of Stonehenge. When I asked him during a break for more details, he gave me a few and provided his e-mail address. I just e-mailed him yesterday, and will let you know if/when he responds.

Rodney, when you get an e-mail back from him saying there's millions of dollars in a secret foreign bank account don't send him that 5,000 dollars.

[ZirconBlue]

Also is there meant to be a link between his watch, some old stones that no one knows what they were used for, how they were used or why they were placed there and the paranormal?

Finally, the mystery has been solved! The purpose of Stonehenge has been revealed: to stop watches!


Or at least one particular watch.


Or maybe just one watch at random.

[LarianLeQuella]

Options:

1. Guy lies to make a buck

2. Something unexplained happened

Pick one. Should be easier than breathing to pick one with a great deal of certianty. And remember, we ALL lie. It's really as simple as that. Making excuses and getting all convoluted doesn't change the basics of human nature or the fact that supernatural stuff never happens.

[Skeptical Greg]

The way he presented the story. He was talking about the "Druids" who hang out at Stonehenge, and told the tour group that there was no evidence that they are descendants of the folks who built Stonehenge. He then stated that he was a skeptic about the paranormal, but that he had this interesting experience recently. He presented it briefly, with no mention of his services being available for "inner circle" tours of Stonehenge. When I asked him during a break for more details, he gave me a few and provided his e-mail address. I just e-mailed him yesterday, and will let you know if/when he responds.Why can't you just give us those few extra details while we are waiting ..

[Rodney]

Why can't you just give us those few extra details while we are waiting ..
I combined what he told the group and what he told me individually in the opening post. My point is that he did not say something along the following lines: "I can tell you categorically that there is some sort of weird energy at Stonehenge. However, you won't experience it unless you take one of the 'inner circle' tours with me. If anyone would like to do that, I can give you a really great rate if you sign up today."

[sackett]

An INNER CIRCLE tour? Well, goddammit, the whole thing's so obvious! In what direction did he walk? Clockwise? Anticlockwise? All he has to do to fix the #@%^&+ watch is walk the other way! Jeeze, why do people make things so damn COMPLICATED????

[Spoons]

A la la la la long, a la la la la long long le long long long... ooh yeah!

[Akhenaten]

An INNER CIRCLE tour? Well, goddammit, the whole thing's so obvious! In what direction did he walk? Clockwise? Anticlockwise? All he has to do to fix the #@%^&+ watch is walk the other way! Jeeze, why do people make things so damn COMPLICATED????





Antiwatchwise, you mean?

[Spoons]

Or was the tour guide Flavor Flav?

YEEEAAAAH BOOOYEEEEEEEEEE!

[fromdownunder]

I combined what he told the group and what he told me individually in the opening post. My point is that he did not say something along the following lines: "I can tell you categorically that there is some sort of weird energy at Stonehenge. However, you won't experience it unless you take one of the 'inner circle' tours with me. If anyone would like to do that, I can give you a really great rate if you sign up today."

[Emphasis mine]

Do I need to say more?

Norm

[Pixel42]

I combined what he told the group and what he told me individually in the opening post. My point is that he did not say something along the following lines: "I can tell you categorically that there is some sort of weird energy at Stonehenge. However, you won't experience it unless you take one of the 'inner circle' tours with me. If anyone would like to do that, I can give you a really great rate if you sign up today."
Just to let you know that at least one person following this thread actually read this post properly and realised you were clarifying that the tour guide did not say that, or anything like it.

ETA: for the record, neither of the woo spouting tour guides I encountered said anything like this either. The woo was just part of their standard patter.

[wardenclyffe]

Rodney,

Was he wearing his watch when he conducted the tour you were on?

Ward

[leon_heller]

He probably wears a cheap watch when he does tours. People might smell a rat if he was wearing his Rolex, or whatever.

[Aitch]

Ah, good ol' Stonehenge...

auvl-gVWZEo

[philkensebben]

Ah, good ol' Stonehenge...

I'm still waiting for the release of 'Lick my love pump'.

Ahh Stonehenge, yeah overrated. Tried stupidly driving past a couple of times, traffic is a nightmare. Amazing the lack of breakdowns :rolleyes:

[banquetbear]

I recently visited Stonehenge and was told by the tour guide, Steve Evans (http://steve-tourguide.com) that a few weeks ago his rather expensive watch stopped working there as he conducted an "inner circle" tour (walking among the stones -- not permitted on most tours). He says that he sent the watch for repairs, and was told that the repair cost would be 170 pounds (about 210 Euros or 275 American dollars), as the internal parts of the watch had been damaged by heat. He claims to be a skeptic about the paranormal, but says that he is unable to account for how his watch could have been damaged by heat.

...simple answer. The Pandorica caused it.

[Verde]

J
ETA: for the record, neither of the woo spouting tour guides I encountered said anything like this either. The woo was just part of their standard patter.

A couple of my kids' friends work as tour guides in Sedona (AZ) during the summer. It is practically written in their contract that they include a piece of woo in every sentence. They don't like it, but students have to eat sometimes.

I remember going to Stonehenge in the 70's when you could actually touch the rocks. A very impressive piece of human ingenuity. My watch would have been a cheap Timex back then; I don't recall any problems with it, other than the usual issue of never being able to rely on it to tell the correct time.

V.

[Kopji]

Oh comeon, we all secretly know the Truth! The watch was damaged by the focusing of cosmic power by Stonehenge on evil modern technology. The presence of the watch was offensive to the universe. Modern technology makes us less sensitive to the more wholesome energy of the ancients. Stonehenge made its voice heard.

We are all in denial.

I (well, my wife anyway) have quite a collection of 'burned out' watches in a cup in the bathroom. My own notion is that modern electronic watches are not made very well, even the expensive ones.

[leon_heller]

A couple of my kids' friends work as tour guides in Sedona (AZ) during the summer. It is practically written in their contract that they include a piece of woo in every sentence. They don't like it, but students have to eat sometimes.

I remember going to Stonehenge in the 70's when you could actually touch the rocks. A very impressive piece of human ingenuity. My watch would have been a cheap Timex back then; I don't recall any problems with it, other than the usual issue of never being able to rely on it to tell the correct time.

V.

If it had stopped, it would have been right twice a day. :)

[Soapy Sam]

My (approx $40) Casio has been running just dandy for over 4 years on the same battery. It's been above 45C here in the afternoons several days in the last two weeks.
Just makes the Stonehenge connection even more inexplicable.

[MrBooglemaumau]

I recently visited Stonehenge and was told by the tour guide, Steve Evans (http://steve-tourguide.com) that a few weeks ago his rather expensive watch stopped working there as he conducted an "inner circle" tour (walking among the stones -- not permitted on most tours). He says that he sent the watch for repairs, and was told that the repair cost would be 170 pounds (about 210 Euros or 275 American dollars), as the internal parts of the watch had been damaged by heat. He claims to be a skeptic about the paranormal, but says that he is unable to account for how his watch could have been damaged by heat.
I would be most interested to know how many people were on this "inner circle "tour.How many were wearing watches [expensive and inexpensive ].How many of those watches were affected in the same manner as the Tour Guide's watch.If even 1 extra watch was affected in this way I would say investigation is warranted.If none...then its just another yarn spun by a glib operator...I'm not holding my breath...

[dafydd]

Ah, good ol' Stonehenge...

auvl-gVWZEo

Stone'enge. The glottal stop is vital.

[dafydd]

The way he presented the story. He was talking about the "Druids" who hang out at Stonehenge, and told the tour group that there was no evidence that they are descendants of the folks who built Stonehenge. He then stated that he was a skeptic about the paranormal, but that he had this interesting experience recently. He presented it briefly, with no mention of his services being available for "inner circle" tours of Stonehenge. When I asked him during a break for more details, he gave me a few and provided his e-mail address. I just e-mailed him yesterday, and will let you know if/when he responds.

The druids never hung around Stonehenge.How did this guy get a job as a tour guide there?

[dafydd]

BTW, a lot of so-called "broken" mechanical watches can be magically re-started simply by holding them in your hands for a few minutes. Why? Well, the majority of wind-up watch stoppages are caused by poor or bad lubrication (i.e. the oil has "soured" or thickened to wax). People will put a full wind on the watch, which doesn't run, and they will put it aside. Now, if you hold a watch in your hands, you are doing two things to it: you're warming it (which causes the oils to thin and soften), and you're shaking it (it's impossible to hold a watch perfectly still), which introduces motion and oscillation in the system. In a lot of cases, you will reach a point where the oil gets warm enough where the induced motion causes the wheel train to break free and overcome the blockage.

This doesn't work for most quartz watches, however; just the ones you wind.

Beanbag

That is exactly what happened when Uri Geller appeared on the BBC program Nationwide circa 1973.He asked viewers to take a broken watch and hold it in their hands.Thousands of people all over the country did this and some watches started again for the reason given above.The BBC switchboard was flooded with calls about watches that had been brought back to life courtesy of Geller's amazing powers.He did the spoon and key conjuring and his reputation in Britain was made.The people I lived with at the time were sold.I took a Bic ballpoint pen,took out the innards,filled it with sand and plugged the ends.I immersed it in boiling water and managed to bend it.I left it on top of the television set and one of them found it. Spooky!

PS For our younger viewers,there were no digital watches back then in the dark ages.

[Mojo]

BTW, a lot of so-called "broken" mechanical watches can be magically re-started simply by holding them in your hands for a few minutes. Why? Well, the majority of wind-up watch stoppages are caused by poor or bad lubrication (i.e. the oil has "soured" or thickened to wax).


This is a possibility for the statement that the watch was "damaged by heat" if that was what caused the oil to sour. If a watch continues to run with inadequate lubrication it can damage the bearings. Or so my watch servicing guy tells me (of course he may have been trying to drum up business)

As you say it would only work with mechanical watches. Quite extraordinary that when Rodney asked the guy for further details he didn't bother to find out what sort of watch it was.

[dafydd]

A couple of my kids' friends work as tour guides in Sedona (AZ) during the summer. It is practically written in their contract that they include a piece of woo in every sentence. They don't like it, but students have to eat sometimes.

I remember going to Stonehenge in the 70's when you could actually touch the rocks. A very impressive piece of human ingenuity. My watch would have been a cheap Timex back then; I don't recall any problems with it, other than the usual issue of never being able to rely on it to tell the correct time.

V.

Ticka ticka Timex,tra la la!

[Beanbag]

This is a possibility for the statement that the watch was "damaged by heat" if that was what caused the oil to sour. If a watch continues to run with inadequate lubrication it can damage the bearings. Or so my watch servicing guy tells me (of course he may have been trying to drum up business)
No, he was giving you the straight dope. It just depends on the level of friction jeweling in the watch. The number of jewels represents the number of aluminum oxide (ruby) bearing surfaces in the watch. Three are non-rotational surfaces (the two pallet jewels and the roller table jewel), while the balance wheel typically has four (two "hole" jewels the pivots rotate in, plus two cap jewels that support the ends of the pivots), so on a 17-jewel watch, that leaves twelve jewels in which six wheels (or gears) rotate. All the other wheels rotate in brass or nickel-silver bearings.

The jeweled bearings are more lubrication-insensitive than the metal bearings, being the contact surfaces are smoother and harder. The pivots running in metal bearings need regular lubrication, however. Oddly enough, it isn't the soft bearing metal that wears away when the lubrication goes bad -- it's the hardened steel axle the wheel pivots on that gets worn away. Abrasive particles embed themselves in the soft bearing metal, and act like sandpaper on the steel pivot. You end up with a pivot that looks like a mushroom. I've worked on a few watches where you had to jiggle the wheel back and forth to get the pivot out of the hole. The mushroom head locked it in the hole.

With modern synthetic lubricants, it's not uncommon for watches to go ten or twenty years between cleanings (but that's pushing things: once every five years is the recommended schedule for service). The early watch oils were derived from natural sources (oil rendered from the jaw sacs of dolphins is a truly remarkable oil used for chronographs and chronometers, and it wasn't until recently that an equivalent synthetic oil was produced), and would start to go bad in a couple years.

Beanbag

[Rodney]

The druids never hung around Stonehenge.How did this guy get a job as a tour guide there?
I guess the "Druid" I saw there with a sign must have been a figment of my imagination. See http://www.stonehenge-druids.org

[Rodney]

Quite extraordinary that when Rodney asked the guy for further details he didn't bother to find out what sort of watch it was.
As surely you must know by now, Mojo, I specialize in the extraordinary. :)

[sackett]

Antiwatchwise, you mean?

And I'm glad that DOC has you on ignore.

I mean "blocked." I don't speak Christian very well.

[dafydd]

I guess the "Druid" I saw there with a sign must have been a figment of my imagination. See http://www.stonehenge-druids.org

http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/faqs/stonehen.html


No, neither the Druids nor the Celts built Stonehenge. Stonehenge was built long before the Celts arrived in Britain. But you don't have to take my word for it. Here are the opinions of a number of experts.

"No stage of the building of Stonehenge is later than about 1200 B.C., and any connection with the Druids, who flourished a thousand years later, is purely conjectural" (Jacquetta Hawkes ed., Atlas of Ancient Archaeology. New York: Barnes and Noble Books, 1994. 33).

The early belief that the monument was built as a temple for sky worship has never been definitively proved. Even more fanciful was an earlier notion that Stonehenge was connected with the Druids, a caste of Celtic priests" (Compton's Encyclopedia. )

The connection between the Druids and Stonehenge is a relatively modern invention.

[Akhenaten]

And I'm glad that DOC has you on ignore.

I mean "blocked." I don't speak Christian very well.





Typical attack the messenger Pharaoh mode. It should raise a red flag that whenever I bring in something widdershins the skep-ticks (and tocks) immediately go into a frenzy of denial. It just shows that I'm on the right track.

Seriously though, I can't believe how cruel some people are in this dark hour of my excommunication ignoringness blockage.*


*Yeah, my Christian sucks too, but then . . .

;)

[sackett]

...seriously though, I can't believe how cruel some people are in this dark hour of my blockage

A tablespoon of good old Metamucil in a cup of cool (not cold) water 1st. thing in the AM, and you'll be right as rain in a day or two.

I won't tell DOC, either.

Although I bet he could use it.

[shadron]

:eek: Experience tells me it's best to remove watches and other jewellery before diving into someone's inner sanctum.

False teeth too, I suppose. Dammit.

[LarianLeQuella]

I guess the "Druid" I saw there with a sign must have been a figment of my imagination. See http://www.stonehenge-druids.org

Sorry, was that meant to be a historical reference? I would say it's about as historicaly accurate as this: http://sca.org Everyone knows swords were really made from rattan!

[dafydd]

I guess the "Druid" I saw there with a sign must have been a figment of my imagination. See http://www.stonehenge-druids.org

When I first visited Stonehenge in the 1960's there was a display with a bunch of gibbering savages in animal skins and covered in woad,pulling a stone erect. You saw a modern Druid at Stonehenge,they have nothing to do with the ancient Druids,who left no records,we know nothing about them,other than in the writings of Julius Caesar,and believing what he said about them would be like believing Adolf Hitler on the subject of the Jews.

[leon_heller]

Here is a modern Druid I photographed at the recent St. Leonards Festival:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79459751@N00/4802489542/in/set-72157624522155370/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79459751@N00/4802488098/in/set-72157624522155370/

[dafydd]

Here is a modern Druid I photographed at the recent St. Leonards Festival:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79459751@N00/4802489542/in/set-72157624522155370/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79459751@N00/4802488098/in/set-72157624522155370/

They wear the nightgowns,but they all have socks and sensible shoes.That really tickles me.I bumped into a bunch of Belgian Druids at a Celtic festival.They knew nothing of the old Celts,they were just play acting.The whole festival was a farce,it had more in common with Braveheart than anything Celtic.

[dafydd]

Typical attack the messenger Pharaoh mode. It should raise a red flag that whenever I bring in something widdershins the skep-ticks (and tocks) immediately go into a frenzy of denial. It just shows that I'm on the right track.

Seriously though, I can't believe how cruel some people are in this dark hour of my excommunication ignoringness blockage.*


*Yeah, my Christian sucks too, but then . . .

;)

How can you go on,knowing that Doc has you on ignore? What a blow to suffer!

[Akhenaten]

How can you go on,knowing that Doc has you on ignore? What a blow to suffer!





I find strength in the words of the great Druid minstrel, Andrewlloydwebber:


Why waste your breath moaning at the crowd?
Nothing can be done to stop the shouting.
If every tongue were still the noise would still continue.
The rocks and stones themselves would start to sing:

Hosanna Hey Sanna Sanna Sanna Hosanna
Hey Sanna Hosanna!

[Ocelot]

Rodney,

Was he wearing his watch when he conducted the tour you were on?

Ward


Nah he'd left in in his pocket in the clothes dryer again.

[Rodney]

The connection between the Druids and Stonehenge is a relatively modern invention.
Did you miss Post # 63 on this thread? "He was talking about the 'Druids' who hang out at Stonehenge, and told the tour group that there was no evidence that they are descendants of the folks who built Stonehenge." See http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6199446&postcount=63

[dafydd]

Did you miss Post # 63 on this thread? "He was talking about the 'Druids' who hang out at Stonehenge, and told the tour group that there was no evidence that they are descendants of the folks who built Stonehenge." See http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6199446&postcount=63

Sorry,I did miss that.

[Akhenaten]

Did you miss Post # 63 on this thread? "He was talking about the 'Druids' who hang out at Stonehenge, and told the tour group that there was no evidence that they are descendants of the folks who built Stonehenge." See http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6199446&postcount=63





Was the word 'Druids' in quotes when he said it?

I think the point is that his credibility would have been much improved by not mentioning Druids at all, or if the subject was raised by others, by responding with words to the effect that there's been no such thing as Druids for millennia.

A predisposition to talk about Druids in the present tense, taken together with the watch story, is beginning to paint a bit of a picture here.

[dafydd]

I find strength in the words of the great Druid minstrel, Andrewlloydwebber:


Why waste your breath moaning at the crowd?
Nothing can be done to stop the shouting.
If every tongue were still the noise would still continue.
The rocks and stones themselves would start to sing:

Hosanna Hey Sanna Sanna Sanna Hosanna
Hey Sanna Hosanna!

Andrewlloydwebber was the minstrel.The ancient records tell us that those immortal words were penned by the bard TimRice.

[dafydd]

Did you miss Post # 63 on this thread? "He was talking about the 'Druids' who hang out at Stonehenge, and told the tour group that there was no evidence that they are descendants of the folks who built Stonehenge." See http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6199446&postcount=63

There is a very good chance that some modern Britons are descendants of the people who built Stonehenge.There were three versions of Stonehenge built between 3100 BC and 1600 BC.No Druids were involved.

[Akhenaten]

Andrewlloydwebber was the minstrel.The ancient records tell us that those immortal words were penned by the bard TimRice.





Thank you, sirrah. I was indeed forgetting my history.

[Marduk]

There is a very good chance that some modern Britons are descendants of the people who built Stonehenge.There were three versions of Stonehenge built between 3100 BC and 1600 BC.No Druids were involved.
Its recently been proven that we are all descended from the Beaker culture, later immigrations had very little effect on the genetics of the general populace.
;)

[Rodney]

A predisposition to talk about Druids in the present tense, taken together with the watch story, is beginning to paint a bit of a picture here.
His whole reason for mentioning the Druids was to point out to the tour group that there is a lot of speculation about Stonehenge, but little in the way of fact. And why, do you suppose, if he was trying to drum up business, that when I asked him for more details about his wristwatch stopping, he provided them, rather than launching into a discussion about the mysteries of Stonehenge and suggesting that I take an inner circle tour of the Pyramids?

[dafydd]

Its recently been proven that we are all descended from the Beaker culture, later immigrations had very little effect on the genetics of the general populace.
;)

Thank you.

[dafydd]

To get back on topic,are we all agreed that the watch was not stopped by mysterious forces emanating from the monument?

[Spoons]

I find strength in the words of the great Druid minstrel, Andrewlloydwebber:


Why waste your breath moaning at the crowd?
Nothing can be done to stop the shouting.
If every tongue were still the noise would still continue.
The rocks and stones themselves would start to sing:

Hosanna Hey Sanna Sanna Sanna Hosanna
Hey Sanna Hosanna!

I find strength in Toto:

Meet you all the way, (do doo doo)
Hosanna yeah!

[Spoons]

Its recently been proven that we are all descended from the Beaker culture, later immigrations had very little effect on the genetics of the general populace.
;)

Beaker? You mean like... the muppet? That is cool.

[Marduk]

Beaker? You mean like... the muppet? That is cool.

Its better in german
Glockenbecherkultur
:D

[Spoons]

I never appreciated what a powerful man Jim Henson was. Four-eye was blind, but now eye see.

[Blackwell]

<snip>The early watch oils were derived from natural sources (oil rendered from the jaw sacs of dolphins is a truly remarkable oil used for chronographs and chronometers, and it wasn't until recently that an equivalent synthetic oil was produced), and would start to go bad in a couple years.

Beanbag

So if my watch starts smelling fishy, I should have it serviced? Good tip! Thank you!

[Giggywig]

So if my watch starts smelling fishy, I should have it serviced? Good tip! Thank you!

Should that be mammaly?

[ZirconBlue]

I find strength in the words of the great Druid minstrel, Andrewlloydwebber:

Take out most of the vowels, and that begins to look like a Welsh name.

Andrwllydwbbr.

[Blackwell]

Should that be mammaly?

NO.

(la la la, I can't hear you.....)

[Apology]

Sorry, was that meant to be a historical reference? I would say it's about as historicaly accurate as this: http://sca.org Everyone knows swords were really made from rattan!

Stop giving away the secrets of our armament construction or I'll have to go all wicker on your a** :mad:

[Aitch]

I find strength in the words of the great Druid minstrel, Andrewlloydwebber:


Ah, Andrew Lloyd Webber - proof that the human race is descended from frogs (http://www.accesshollywood.com/content/images/81/230x306/81675_andrew-lloyd-webber.jpg).

[dafydd]

Stop giving away the secrets of our armament construction or I'll have to go all wicker on your a** :mad:

I always thought that the phrase "I am a Wiccan.'' was code for ''I am a basket case."

[Lucian]

Did you miss Post # 63 on this thread? "He was talking about the 'Druids' who hang out at Stonehenge, and told the tour group that there was no evidence that they are descendants of the folks who built Stonehenge." See http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6199446&postcount=63
I think your wording was just a smidgelet ambiguous. Did he mean that the modern "Druids" are not descendants of the builders of Stonehenge, who weren't Druids, or did he mean that the modern "Druids" aren't the descendants of real Druids? Both interpretations of your sentence seem possible, and the latter leaves open the possibility that Stonehenge was indeed built by Druids.

[dafydd]

I think your wording was just a smidgelet ambiguous. Did he mean that the modern "Druids" are not descendants of the builders of Stonehenge, who weren't Druids, or did he mean that the modern "Druids" aren't the descendants of real Druids? Both interpretations of your sentence seem possible, and the latter leaves open the possibility that Stonehenge was indeed built by Druids.

I took the latter interpretation,hence my earlier posts.

[Mojo]

As surely you must know by now, Mojo, I specialize in the extraordinary. :)


But not necessarily in the unexpected.

[Rodney]

I took the latter interpretation,hence my earlier posts.Yes, that's what I meant.

[Checkmite]

Obviously Stonehenge is a conduit designed to channel geolinear harmonic energy into watches, and modern expensive watches are too structurally weak to absorb and dissipate the energy efficiently enough.

[Akhenaten]

.



http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/Andrwllydwbbr.jpg

[Olowkow]

Perfect! I'm pretty sure that's the issue wherein they reveal the discovery of 500 buried Ameager Wands at Stonehenge in excellent condition. Some say that these may be the source of the energy that has been destroying wristwatches and causing them to run "counterwatchwisedly".**






**Or "antiwatchwisedly" for our clueless friends.

[Beanbag]

So if my watch starts smelling fishy, I should have it serviced? Good tip! Thank you!
It doesn't happen as often these days, but it used to be that somebody would bring in "great-grandad's watch" for service. When you popped the case, there would be a a distinctive, somewhat rank odor that told you the watch hadn't been serviced in over forty years. The source of the odor: whale oil, which used to be a significant component in some early watch oils. Hard to describe, but unforgettable. Not fishy, however, as Giggywig pointed out.

Beanbag

[Akhenaten]

Whale oil beef hooked.

[Akhenaten]

Perfect! I'm pretty sure that's the issue wherein they reveal the discovery of 500 buried Ameager Wands at Stonehenge in excellent condition. Some say that these may be the source of the energy that has been destroying wristwatches and causing them to run "counterwatchwisedly".**






**Or "antiwatchwisedly" for our clueless friends.





It's like the Forum is a Black Hole of Woo™, drawing in weird stuff from the surrounding spacetime; tended and defended by we valiant few - the Guardians of the Event Horizon.


Or something.

[dafydd]

Whale oil beef hooked.

What did they sing on the whaling ships at dinner time?......"Whale meet again,...''

[Andrew Wiggin]

:eek: Experience tells me it's best to remove watches and other jewellery before diving into someone's inner sanctum.

I've heard it said one should trim one's nails and use rubber gloves as well.

A

[Spoons]

i've heard it said one should trim one's nails and use rubber gloves as well.

A

never!

[Rodney]

Quite extraordinary that when Rodney asked the guy for further details he didn't bother to find out what sort of watch it was.
My tour guide just e-mailed me that "it's an analog electronic watch, I don't know which company made it but it's sold by Emporio Armami. There was no visual damage, but the inside workings melted, I felt nothing and noticed nothing unusual."

[Akhenaten]

My tour guide just e-mailed me that "it's an analog electronic watch, I don't know which company made it but it's sold by Emporio Armami. There was no visual damage, but the inside workings melted, I felt nothing and noticed nothing unusual."



my embiggening


I think that's one of those extraordinary claims that a whole heap of people are going to tell you require extraordinary evidence.

Put me down as not believing a word of it.

[RoboTimbo]

Ask him to send you a picture of the inside workings melted.

[Rodney]

Ask him to send you a picture of the inside workings melted.
Why would he have such a picture? He says that he sent the watch for repair and was told by the repairman that the inside workings had melted.

[Skeptical Greg]

Why would he have such a picture? ...

Indeed ...

[Akhenaten]

Why would he have such a picture? He says that he sent the watch for repair and was told by the repairman that the inside workings had melted.





Someone is telling porkies. Pics or it didn't happen.

[dafydd]

Why would he have such a picture? He says that he sent the watch for repair and was told by the repairman that the inside workings had melted.

Am I supposed to believe that there are mysterious forces at work in Stonehenge on the basis of that?

[Rodney]

Someone is telling porkies. Pics or it didn't happen.
So, if he supplies pictures showing that the inside workings of his watch melted, then his story is true?

[RoboTimbo]

Why would he have such a picture? He says that he sent the watch for repair and was told by the repairman that the inside workings had melted.

So, really, all you have is the guy's story then?

[Akhenaten]

So, if he supplies pictures showing that the inside workings of his watch melted, then his story is true?





Given that I could, right this very minute, go out into my garage, take to an old watch with a gas axe, photograph it and then post the pictures here, I'll leave it to you to figure out your own answer to that question.

[Hellbound]

You know, if the watch had ever been, say, left on the dashboard of the car in the sun...I could see this happening.

Not to mention the possibilities for some sort of chemical reaction if somethign was spilled onto or into the watch.

My question would be how is he sure it happened at Stonehenge?

[Resume]

So, if he supplies pictures showing that the inside workings of his watch melted, then his story is true?

Oh c'mon. This isn't serious question, is it?

[SimpleIrony]

One thing I've often been amazed at is how people with watches never seem to know what time it is. Have you ever noticed that? One of my favourite games to play is to ask people what time it is about 3 seconds after they have looked at their watch. 9 out of 10 times they need to look at their watch again.

As many posters have pointed out: watches can be damaged by their internal workings. And unless he looked at his watch twice while he was in the inner circle (or right before and after) then we don't know when it really stopped.

One other point: if it was really that odd for a watch to have the inner workings damaged by heat, why didn't he include the part where the watchmaker said, "Holy mo.....fo.... hell! How can this have happened!?!?!? never in my XX number of years fixing watches have I ever seen something like this!!! This thing should have burned off your wrist!!!! Is this some kind of a trick??? Did you take this thing apart and put it under a blowtorch?!? I'm almost afraid to touch it; it gives me the heeby-jeebies just thinking about it!"

Electronics melt from time to time. You'd think this would be common knowledge in 2010. That it happened to a tour guide working in Stonehenge isn't noteworthy.

[SimpleIrony]

Someone is telling porkies. Pics or it didn't happen.

You're not serious, are you? This one time I was dancing in a circle around a fire in a cauldron (don't ask) with about 50 people. When we stopped a giant flame spiral shot about 20 feet in the air. Amazingly no one had their camera focus on the cauldron ready to snap a picture of this happening. Does it mean it didn't happen? How about that shooting star I saw the other night? I've never once taken pictures of me having sex, does that mean I'm necessarily a virgin? Does that mean that anyone without pictures is a virgin?

You need to tweak your ******** metre. There is nothing impossible about a watch having its inner workings melted while on the wrist of a tour guide at Stonehenge. The only dubious part is that a circle of stone rocks is somehow involved.

[SimpleIrony]

Given that I could, right this very minute, go out into my garage, take to an old watch with a gas axe, photograph it and then post the pictures here, I'll leave it to you to figure out your own answer to that question.

You're the one who demanded pictures in the first place! Now you are getting after him because he asked if pictures would prove anything?

[Mojo]

Why would he have such a picture?


OK, how about an affidavit signed by someone with no relevant qualifications?

[dafydd]

One thing I've often been amazed at is how people with watches never seem to know what time it is. Have you ever noticed that? One of my favourite games to play is to ask people what time it is about 3 seconds after they have looked at their watch. 9 out of 10 times they need to look at their watch again.
.

I do that too.The reason is that they are working out how long they have until their next appointment.

[SimpleIrony]

OK, how about an affidavit signed by someone with no relevant qualifications?

That wouldn't prove anything either unless, "scientists agree" with it on irrelevant grounds.

[Hellbound]

That wouldn't prove anything either unless, "scientists agree" with it on irrelevant grounds.

That was an "in-joke" reference to some older discussions regarding Cayce, IIRC. I have severe doubts that Mojo was serious.

[Akhenaten]

You're not serious, are you?





Not overly. It's a pretty silly subject, after all.



This one time I was dancing in a circle around a fire in a cauldron (don't ask) with about 50 people. When we stopped a giant flame spiral shot about 20 feet in the air. Amazingly no one had their camera focus on the cauldron ready to snap a picture of this happening. Does it mean it didn't happen?





No. It means that you have no evidence to present that it happened.



How about that shooting star I saw the other night? I've never once taken pictures of me having sex, does that mean I'm necessarily a virgin? Does that mean that anyone without pictures is a virgin?





No, it means that straw men are made out of straw and that all of the red herrings aren't in the sea.



You need to tweak your ******** metre. There is nothing impossible about a watch having its inner workings melted while on the wrist of a tour guide at Stonehenge.





My asterisk meter (note the spelling) tells me that the tour guide would have a scar to go with his melted watch. I'd be interested in seeing a picture of that as well as some of the watch fondue.



The only dubious part is that a circle of stone rocks is somehow involved.





No, the watch melting without burning the wearer is the dubious part, regardless of where it is alleged to have happened.


You're the one who demanded pictures in the first place! Now you are getting after him because he asked if pictures would prove anything?





I piece of evidence ≠ proof. At the moment we have zero evidence.

I'm confident that the incident, as described, didn't happen. YMMV

[SimpleIrony]

I do that too.The reason is that they are working out how long they have until their next appointment.

Oh, I know. It's just kind of funny how you can work out how much time you have without noting what time it is. It's exactly like moving the milk to see if there is any orange juice behind it, and then having to check a minute later to see if you have any milk.

[dudalb]

I always thought that the phrase "I am a Wiccan.'' was code for ''I am a basket case."

I hope you are not confusing the SCA with Wicca.....Yeah, there are some Wiccans but there are also Christians, Jews,Hindus, Moslems, and Atheists.
People who enjoy Medieval culture and hitting each other on the head with sticks.....

[SimpleIrony]

Not overly. It's a pretty silly subject, after all.


Yes it is definitely silly.



No. It means that you have no evidence to present that it happened.

I'm glad we agree.


No, it means that straw men are made out of straw and that all of red herrings aren't in the sea.


I'm pointing out a lack of pictures doesn't prove anything. It's not a straw man since you said "Pics or it didn't happen". It's not a straw man if it exactly addresses the point you made.


My asterisk meter (note the spelling) tells me that the tour guide would have a scar to go with his melted watch. I'd be interested in seeing a oppicture of that as well as some of the watch fondue.

Not everyone lives in the States, it's spelled metre in... oh, crap, you're right. Not that type of metre, oops.

The inner workings of an electric watch melting wouldn't get so hot that you would get burned. There is a lot of insulation between the thin, easily melted parts and the outside of the watch.

I piece of evidence ≠ proof. At the moment we have zero evidence.
I'm confident that the incident, as described, didn't happen. YMMV

So you are justified in being sceptical (okay, that one I know is right), not in claiming it couldn't have happened without testing the watch. If it was a mechanical watch, it couldn't have happened without burning his wrist. A digital watch could have parts melt without the outside being any warmer than his wrist.

p.s. Loved the straw man, red herring comment by the way. I'm probably going to steal it in the future.

[Rodney]

You're the one who demanded pictures in the first place! Now you are getting after him because he asked if pictures would prove anything?
Exactly. On the one hand, if the tour guide does not have pictures of the melted inner workings of the watch (which, based on his story, he would not be expected to have), that conclusively disproves his story. If, on the other hand, he has such pictures, that proves absolutely nothing. Ain't "skepticism" wonderful?

[SimpleIrony]

That was an "in-joke" reference to some older discussions regarding Cayce, IIRC. I have severe doubts that Mojo was serious.

I didn't think he was serious. My comment wasn't serious either. I didn't know it was an in-joke, but I know that people with irrelevant degrees are used in justifying woo all the time. Just as "scientists agree" is used all the time to justify woo.

It seems I've run afoul of Poe's Law again.

[Akhenaten]

I'm pointing out a lack of pictures doesn't prove anything. It's not a straw man since you said "Pics or it didn't happen". It's not a straw man if it exactly addresses the point you made.





Exactly. On the one hand, if the tour guide does not have pictures of the melted inner workings of the watch (which, based on his story, he would not be expected to have), that conclusively disproves his story. If, on the other hand, he has such pictures, that proves absolutely nothing. Ain't "skepticism" wonderful?





You two are only just now, for the very first time ever, hearing the expression "pics or it didn't happen" are you?

Geeze Louise.




It seems I've run afoul of Poe's Law again.





Yup. Couple of times, I reckon.

[Hellbound]

I didn't think he was serious. My comment wasn't serious either. I didn't know it was an in-joke, but I know that people with irrelevant degrees are used in justifying woo all the time. Just as "scientists agree" is used all the time to justify woo.

It seems I've run afoul of Poe's Law again.

NO ONE expects Poe's Law!

Okay, well, maybe they do, but still :p

[Akhenaten]

p.s. Loved the straw man, red herring comment by the way. I'm probably going to steal it in the future.





No wukkers. Here's the picture that goes with it:


http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/RedHerring.jpg

[Ladewig]

The inner workings of an electric watch melting wouldn't get so hot that you would get burned. There is a lot of insulation between the thin, easily melted parts and the outside of the watch.

Wait... what?

[RoboTimbo]

Exactly. On the one hand, if the tour guide does not have pictures of the melted inner workings of the watch (which, based on his story, he would not be expected to have), that conclusively disproves his story. If, on the other hand, he has such pictures, that proves absolutely nothing. Ain't "skepticism" wonderful?

Do you believe that there is a watch that was melted and do you believe that it was caused by some influence of Stonehenge?

[SimpleIrony]

You two are only just now, for the very first time ever, hearing the expression "pics or it didn't happen" are you?

Geeze Louise.

Uhm, yes. I missed a joke I take it?

[SimpleIrony]

Wait... what?

I'm not sure what part was unclear. There are parts of a digital (I should have said digital and not electric) that can melt and damage the watch (connections and such). There are things that can go wrong in digital watches that can produce enough heat to melt those bits. Those parts can melt at a relatively low temperature, so low, that the back of the watch wouldn't be much warmer than it would get being worn on your wrist on a warm day.

I'm not talking the entire inner workings of a watch; I'm talking about minute easily damaged bits.

Maybe that's where the problem lies on this topic. The guy didn't say the watch was melted in the inside, he said, "damaged by heat". Enough heat can be generated inside a watch to "damage it by heat" without heating the outside of the watch more than it would be heated on a wrist on a warm day.

[RoboTimbo]

Rodney said the email told him that "the inside workings melted". If that's such a common occurrence, not as drastic as the wording makes it seem to a layman, there probably isn't much point to this thread.

[SimpleIrony]

Rodney said the email told him that "the inside workings melted". If that's such a common occurrence, not as drastic as the wording makes it seem to a layman, there probably isn't much point to this thread.

Oh, I see. The initial post said "damaged by heat" that's what I was basing it on. If the claim is that the insides melted on a large scale, then I agree that's got to be garbage.

[Rodney]

Do you believe that there is a watch that was melted and do you believe that it was caused by some influence of Stonehenge?
I believe the tour guide's story that: (1) His watch stopped working as he was conducting an inner circle tour of Stonehenge; and (2) He sent out the watch for repairs and was told by the repairman that the inner workings of the watch had melted.

I see three basic possible explanations here: (1) The tour guide's watch had been heat-damaged prior to his conducting a tour of Stonehenge, and it simply stopped working there; (2) The repairman falsely told him that the watch was heat-damaged to inflate the repair bill; and (3) Some influence at Stonehenge melted the inner workings of the watch.

[RoboTimbo]

Would you want more evidence for any one of those three possible explanations than the other two before you would give it any credence? Or do you think all three possibilities have equal chance of happening?

[Ladewig]

I'm not sure what part was unclear. There are parts of a digital (I should have said digital and not electric) that can melt and damage the watch (connections and such). There are things that can go wrong in digital watches that can produce enough heat to melt those bits. Those parts can melt at a relatively low temperature, so low, that the back of the watch wouldn't be much warmer than it would get being worn on your wrist on a warm day.

I'm not talking the entire inner workings of a watch; I'm talking about minute easily damaged bits.

Maybe that's where the problem lies on this topic. The guy didn't say the watch was melted in the inside, he said, "damaged by heat". Enough heat can be generated inside a watch to "damage it by heat" without heating the outside of the watch more than it would be heated on a wrist on a warm day.

I read this post as meaning
My tour guide just e-mailed me that "it's an analog electronic watch, I don't know which company made it but it's sold by Emporio Armami. There was no visual damage, but the inside workings melted, I felt nothing and noticed nothing unusual."

...that metal gears were melted, warped, or otherwise deformed by heat to require $275 worth of repairs. Perhaps I was inferring too much. In nay case, brand new E.A. watches sell in the U.S. for between $150 and $550.

[RoboTimbo]

I read this post as meaning


...that metal gears were melted, warped, or otherwise deformed by heat to require $275 worth of repairs. Perhaps I was inferring too much. In nay case, brand new E.A. watches sell in the U.S. for between $150 and $550.

That's the way I took it too. I would have thought the tour guide would have retrieved his damaged watch from the repairman if he wasn't going to have it repaired. Thus, he could take a picture of what damage it actually had. If he was going to have it repaired, he should have a written estimate showing what is wrong with the watch. If it was such unusual damage, why didn't the repairman make an issue of it with the tour guide?

Unfortunately, or conveniently, none of this seems to have happened. All we have is an anecdote with some nebulous wording about heat damage. Actually, all we have is an anecdote of an anecdote.

[Resume]

I believe the tour guide's story that: (1) His watch stopped working as he was conducting an inner circle tour of Stonehenge; and (2) He sent out the watch for repairs and was told by the repairman that the inner workings of the watch had melted.

I see three basic possible explanations here: (1) The tour guide's watch had been heat-damaged prior to his conducting a tour of Stonehenge, and it simply stopped working there; (2) The repairman falsely told him that the watch was heat-damaged to inflate the repair bill; and (3) Some influence at Stonehenge melted the inner workings of the watch.

Why do you believe the tour guide?

[David Wong]

I believe the tour guide's story that: (1) His watch stopped working as he was conducting an inner circle tour of Stonehenge; and (2) He sent out the watch for repairs and was told by the repairman that the inner workings of the watch had melted.

I see three basic possible explanations here: (1) The tour guide's watch had been heat-damaged prior to his conducting a tour of Stonehenge, and it simply stopped working there; (2) The repairman falsely told him that the watch was heat-damaged to inflate the repair bill; and (3) Some influence at Stonehenge melted the inner workings of the watch.

My trash can was knocked over when I went out to the yard this morning. I see three basic possible explanations here: (1) A strong wind knocked it over; (2) A raccoon or a dog knocked it over trying to get at the trash inside; (3) an alien spacecraft knocked it over while transporting to my dimension from the 10th dimension in order to abduct Bigfoot.


Got to be one of the three. I'm completely neutral as to which one, therefore I am a reasonable person.

[SimpleIrony]

I read this post as meaning


...that metal gears were melted, warped, or otherwise deformed by heat to require $275 worth of repairs. Perhaps I was inferring too much. In nay case, brand new E.A. watches sell in the U.S. for between $150 and $550.

Yeah, I see what you mean. There are a lot of electronics, though, that are more expensive to fix than to get a new one. Like if there were a couple of small connections that meant that the whole part had to be replaced (you know, like that green thingy). If the part had to be shipped in, and it required a fair bit of labour (and then let's face it, it's England home of some of the highest prices on earth), you can easily have very minor damage costing more than the watch.

The only reason I don't think it's all a lie is because it's such a terrible story, but I could be wrong.

[Ladewig]

Yeah, I see what you mean. There are a lot of electronics, though, that are more expensive to fix than to get a new one. Like if there were a couple of small connections that meant that the whole part had to be replaced (you know, like that green thingy). If the part had to be shipped in, and it required a fair bit of labour (and then let's face it, it's England home of some of the highest prices on earth), you can easily have very minor damage costing more than the watch.

The only reason I don't think it's all a lie is because it's such a terrible story, but I could be wrong.

Yes, it is possible that the battery shorted out and melted a plastic part. Of course, in such a situation, if I were the repairman, I would describe the problem to the customer as the battery shorted out and damaged some plastic parts.

I know that there was some mocking about photos several posts back, but I, for one, would like to see a photo. I want to see if steel gears are fused together or a plastic fiddly bit melted.

[Ladewig]

That's the way I took it too. I would have thought the tour guide would have retrieved his damaged watch from the repairman if he wasn't going to have it repaired.

I sure as hell would have. Do you know how much I could sell a Stonehenge-damaged watch for on e-Bay?!

[RoboTimbo]

I sure as hell would have. Do you know how much I could sell a Stonehenge-damaged watch for on e-Bay?!

Sweet! It doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to find someone who would buy a good story!

[SimpleIrony]

Yes, it is possible that the battery shorted out and melted a plastic part. Of course, in such a situation, if I were the repairman, I would describe the problem to the customer as the battery shorted out and damaged some plastic parts.

I know that there was some mocking about photos several posts back, but I, for one, would like to see a photo. I want to see if steel gears are fused together or a plastic fiddly bit melted.

That's a really good point. Heat damaged is about as specific as a doctor saying, "Your insides are sick."

Look, I think we can all agree on the really important issue here, which is: $275 American is way too much to spend on getting a watch fixed.

[David Wong]

Especially when your phone displays the time right on there.

[Skeptical Greg]

.............
Look, I think we can all agree on the really important issue here, which is: $275 American is way too much to spend on getting a watch fixed.And especially when you plan on continuing to expose it to the strange force that broke it in the first place...

[Rodney]

Why do you believe the tour guide?
Because he never suggested that I should take another tour of Stonehenge "to get the inside story" or anything similar to that, even after I asked him for more details about his watch. He came across as someone genuinely puzzled by a strange sequence of events, rather than a huckster.

[Resume]

Because he never suggested that I should take another tour of Stonehenge "to get the inside story" or anything similar to that, even after I asked him for more details about his watch. He came across as someone genuinely puzzled by a strange sequence of events, rather than a huckster.

He's a tour guide. His job is to pimp the tour, make it exciting, interesting, and it's certainly not out of the question that he might be prone to embellishing.

[Akhenaten]

My tour guide just e-mailed me that "it's an analog electronic watch, I don't know which company made it but it's sold by Emporio Armami. There was no visual damage, but the inside workings melted, I felt nothing and noticed nothing unusual."



my embiggening


I think that's one of those extraordinary claims that a whole heap of people are going to tell you require extraordinary evidence.

Put me down as not believing a word of it.





Ask him to send you a picture of the inside workings melted.





Why would he have such a picture? He says that he sent the watch for repair and was told by the repairman that the inside workings had melted.





So, if he supplies pictures showing that the inside workings of his watch melted, then his story is true?





Exactly. On the one hand, if the tour guide does not have pictures of the melted inner workings of the watch (which, based on his story, he would not be expected to have), that conclusively disproves his story. If, on the other hand, he has such pictures, that proves absolutely nothing. Ain't "skepticism" wonderful?





Rodney said the email told him that "the inside workings melted". If that's such a common occurrence, not as drastic as the wording makes it seem to a layman, there probably isn't much point to this thread.





Oh, I see. The initial post said "damaged by heat" that's what I was basing it on. If the claim is that the insides melted on a large scale, then I agree that's got to be garbage.





Uhm, yes. I missed a joke I take it?





That would be one way of putting it.

[Akhenaten]

I believe the tour guide's story that: (1) His watch stopped working as he was conducting an inner circle tour of Stonehenge;





This is indeed an extremely mundane aspect of the whole story, especially given the following:

My tour guide just e-mailed me that "it's an analog electronic watch, I don't know which company made it but it's sold by Emporio Armami. There was no visual damage, but the inside workings melted, I felt nothing and noticed nothing unusual."




An analogue watch has hands on the front of it. If an analogue watch stops, there is absolutely no guesswork involved in figuring out when it stopped.



. . . and (2) He sent out the watch for repairs and was told by the repairman that the inner workings of the watch had melted.






I think that's one of those extraordinary claims that a whole heap of people are going to tell you require extraordinary evidence.





Let's do the Time Warp again.



I see three basic possible explanations here: (1) The tour guide's watch had been heat-damaged prior to his conducting a tour of Stonehenge, and it simply stopped working there; (2) The repairman falsely told him that the watch was heat-damaged to inflate the repair bill; and (3) Some influence at Stonehenge melted the inner workings of the watch.





(1) As pointed out earlier, it's an analogue watch so there would have been a record of exactly when it stopped.

(2) You keep interchanging the terms 'heat-damaged' and 'melted as though they are equivalent. No wonder that poor SimpleIrony got a bit confused.

Telling a customer that the innards of his watch had melted would be a pretty silly lie. It's such an extraordinary claim and so easy to check that there would be little hope of getting away with it.

(3) Stonehenge is some big rocks. They do not exert any influence on anything other than gullible people. Or do you have actual evidence to the contrary?


Embiggen your horizons, Rodney.


(4)

Someone is telling porkies. Pics or it didn't happen.

[Akhenaten]

Yes, it is possible that the battery shorted out and melted a plastic part. Of course, in such a situation, if I were the repairman, I would describe the problem to the customer as the battery shorted out and damaged some plastic parts.

I know that there was some mocking about photos several posts back, but I, for one, would like to see a photo. I want to see if steel gears are fused together or a plastic fiddly bit melted.





That's exactly what I was getting at, as it happens.

'Pics or it didn't happen' was meant to be shorthand for 'there is a significant difference between some superficially minor but nevertheless terminal heat damage that might result from an internal short circuit and "the inner workings were melted" and some photographic evidence would go a long way towards clearing up the ambiguity.'

My bad.

[Akhenaten]

He's a tour guide. His job is to pimp the tour, make it exciting, interesting, and it's certainly not out of the question that he might be prone to embellishing.





Exackery.

[SimpleIrony]

An analogue watch has hands on the front of it. If an analogue watch stops, there is absolutely no guesswork involved in figuring out when it stopped.


D'oh! I missed that it was an analogue watch. Okay, I'm starting to move toward the fib camp.

(2) You keep interchanging the terms 'heat-damaged' and 'melted as though they are equivalent. No wonder that poor SimpleIrony got a bit confused.

Yes, that was the problem. People tend to go from less sensational to more sensational. It seemed like a person could hear "heat-damaged" and think "melted". The fact that the less sensational "heat-damaged" was mentioned at all suggested to me that there could be some true story lurking somewhere.

At this point, I agree that without photos we've got nothing.

[Akhenaten]

An analogue watch has hands on the front of it. If an analogue watch stops, there is absolutely no guesswork involved in figuring out when it stopped.



D'oh! I missed that it was an analogue watch. Okay, I'm starting to move toward the fib camp.





I'll bet you're a long way from being the first or last person to read/hear "electronic" and think "digital". Easy mistake to make, I reckon.




(2) You keep interchanging the terms 'heat-damaged' and 'melted as though they are equivalent. No wonder that poor SimpleIrony got a bit confused.





Yes, that was the problem. People tend to go from less sensational to more sensational. It seemed like a person could hear "heat-damaged" and think "melted". The fact that the less sensational "heat-damaged" was mentioned at all suggested to me that there could be some true story lurking somewhere.





Imprecision of language, redefining of words and equivocation are hallmarks of this kind of story. We all get caught out occasionally.



At this point, I agree that without photos we've got nothing.





Pics or it didn't happen, eh?

Yay! Another convert!

:D

[Ladewig]

If it were me, and I felt the need to tell the story to strangers, I would certainly have the actual watch in my pocket to show people.

This story teller has the only piece of tangible evidence in the history of the world that Stonehenge has inexplicable supernatural powers, and rather than document it, post photos of it online, offer it to universities to study, or even just show it to people, he simply tells stories about it to random tourists who visit the site.

[RoboTimbo]

If it were me, and I felt the need to tell the story to strangers, I would certainly have the actual watch in my pocket to show people.

This story teller has the only piece of tangible evidence in the history of the world that Stonehenge has inexplicable supernatural powers, and rather than document it, post photos of it online, offer it to universities to study, or even just show it to people, he simply tells stories about it to random tourists who visit the site.

I think he's probably very selective about which tourists he feels he can successfully tell it to. There were probably other things said during the tour that led the tour guide to choose Rodney as being someone who would be receptive to a yarn like that and would believe it with absolutely no evidence whatsoever. The tour guide was counting on Rodney to go forth and spread the word and the rest is history.

You have to hand it to that tour guide for being very perceptive and knowing which of his audience to target.

[Akhenaten]

If it were me, and I felt the need to tell the story to strangers, I would certainly have the actual watch in my pocket to show people.

This story teller has the only piece of tangible evidence in the history of the world that Stonehenge has inexplicable supernatural powers, and rather than document it, post photos of it online, offer it to universities to study, or even just show it to people, he simply tells stories about it to random tourists who visit the site.





That's a very good point. The last thing you'd do with a watch that had been affected in this way would be to have it repaired, thus destroying your extraordinary evidence of an extraordinary event. And you certainly wouldn't just throw it away, would you?

Makes me wonder where this watch might be.



ETA: What RoboTimbo said probably explains it better. :)

[SimpleIrony]

Pics or it didn't happen, eh?

Yay! Another convert!

:D

No, that's not what I'm saying.

I'll tell you what I'm saying when I think of something really clever to say that makes it seem like I was right all along. :p

Be patient, it might take me awhile.

[SimpleIrony]

I think he's probably very selective about which tourists he feels he can successfully tell it to. There were probably other things said during the tour that led the tour guide to choose Rodney as being someone who would be receptive to a yarn like that and would believe it with absolutely no evidence whatsoever. The tour guide was counting on Rodney to go forth and spread the word and the rest is history.

You have to hand it to that tour guide for being very perceptive and knowing which of his audience to target.

Really? I used to be a tour guide, and I told everyone during every tour about the strange things that happened to me in the house, and how I often felt like I was being watched.

All the stories that I told were 100% true by the way. (Probably why I gave the tour guide at Stonehenge the benefit of the doubt). I freaked myself out on a regular basis in that place.

I worked alone at night in an old, creaky, dark, dusty, poorly lit, and cold house. The doors were very loose on their hinges, and it was frequently windy, so they regularly slammed shut and echoed loudly. And it seemed like their was always some kind of weird wailing sound. The tour was about people being horribly murdered and disappearing under strange circumstances. You'd have to have no imagination at all to not find that place creepy, and I have a very active imagination. :scared:

Someone in nearly every tour said that they "felt something weird in that corner, staircase, etc." and chalked my heeby-jeebies up to some supernatural cause. Someone else in every tour scoffed.

So, to make a long story short. He didn't necessarily have to be all that perceptive to tell the story.

[RoboTimbo]

True. It would work just as well to tell everyone and just let the gullible ones spread the word.

[Rodney]

I think he's probably very selective about which tourists he feels he can successfully tell it to. There were probably other things said during the tour that led the tour guide to choose Rodney as being someone who would be receptive to a yarn like that and would believe it with absolutely no evidence whatsoever. The tour guide was counting on Rodney to go forth and spread the word and the rest is history.

You have to hand it to that tour guide for being very perceptive and knowing which of his audience to target.
You evidently missed Post # 63 on this thread -- http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6199446&postcount=63. To summarize the relevant portion of that post: The tour guide "was talking about the 'Druids' who hang out at Stonehenge, and told the tour group that there was no evidence that they are descendants of the folks who built Stonehenge. He then stated that he was a skeptic about the paranormal, but that he had this interesting experience recently. He presented it briefly, with no mention of his services being available for 'inner circle' tours of Stonehenge. When I asked him during a break for more details, he gave me a few and provided his e-mail address."

So, the tour guide did not choose me to tell the story to, he told the story to the entire group. And your comment about him having "absolutely no evidence whatsoever" implies that, if he had shown the group the watch, that would have been evidence of something paranormal happening. Obviously, it would not have been.

[RoboTimbo]

You evidently missed Post # 63 on this thread -- http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6199446&postcount=63. To summarize the relevant portion of that post: The tour guide "was talking about the 'Druids' who hang out at Stonehenge, and told the tour group that there was no evidence that they are descendants of the folks who built Stonehenge. He then stated that he was a skeptic about the paranormal, but that he had this interesting experience recently. He presented it briefly, with no mention of his services being available for 'inner circle' tours of Stonehenge. When I asked him during a break for more details, he gave me a few and provided his e-mail address."

So, the tour guide did not choose me to tell the story to, he told the story to the entire group. And your comment about him having "absolutely no evidence whatsoever" implies that, if he had shown the group the watch, that would have been evidence of something paranormal happening. Obviously, it would not have been.

Yes, I went back and read that he was addressing the entire group. Apologies. But the comment wasn't about him having absolutely no evidence, it was about you accepting it with absolutely no evidence.

[Hellbound]

By the way, Rodney, you can drop the bit about this not being an effort at financial gain by the tour guide. THe fact that he didn't tell the story and then try to use it to leverage some special tour doesn't remove that possibility. He told the story expecting the outcome that is currently happening: you are telling other people. I imagine many of the other visitors on that tour are doing the same. So now, there's this story about a watch melting at Stonehenge being spread around to friends and family, many of which will then decide on a trip there themselves. DOesn't matter if they believe the story enough...the telling of the story puts the idea of a Stonehenge tour in mind, the true believers will want to go, and even some of the unbelievers might want tot go to try and put it to the test.

It's free advertising, basically. Tour guides everywhere do this: talk about some wierd occurance (noises in the basement of the ghost house), histroical oddities (it was thought the president's mistress lived on the third floor), or hints of reward (Jesse James hid out here a after his last bank robbery. You know they never did find the money...).

[Rodney]

Yes, I went back and read that he was addressing the entire group. Apologies. But the comment wasn't about him having absolutely no evidence, it was about you accepting it with absolutely no evidence.
I'm only accepting that his account was accurate (based upon the way the whole situation developed), not that a mysterious force melted his watch.

[Rodney]

By the way, Rodney, you can drop the bit about this not being an effort at financial gain by the tour guide. THe fact that he didn't tell the story and then try to use it to leverage some special tour doesn't remove that possibility. He told the story expecting the outcome that is currently happening: you are telling other people. I imagine many of the other visitors on that tour are doing the same. So now, there's this story about a watch melting at Stonehenge being spread around to friends and family, many of which will then decide on a trip there themselves. DOesn't matter if they believe the story enough...the telling of the story puts the idea of a Stonehenge tour in mind, the true believers will want to go, and even some of the unbelievers might want tot go to try and put it to the test.

It's free advertising, basically. Tour guides everywhere do this: talk about some wierd occurance (noises in the basement of the ghost house), histroical oddities (it was thought the president's mistress lived on the third floor), or hints of reward (Jesse James hid out here a after his last bank robbery. You know they never did find the money...).
Pure speculation.

[truethat]

I recently visited Stonehenge and was told by the tour guide, Steve Evans (http://steve-tourguide.com) that a few weeks ago his rather expensive watch stopped working there as he conducted an "inner circle" tour (walking among the stones -- not permitted on most tours). He says that he sent the watch for repairs, and was told that the repair cost would be 170 pounds (about 210 Euros or 275 American dollars), as the internal parts of the watch had been damaged by heat. He claims to be a skeptic about the paranormal, but says that he is unable to account for how his watch could have been damaged by heat.

The sun? He's a tourguide walking around in the sun all day.

[SimpleIrony]

One point that got missed in the whole did it happen/did it not happen debate is that if there is a watch that got "heat-damaged" then it had to have been something inside the watch that caused it to happen.

Because if it did happen, and it was something external that caused the watch to melt, then as Akhenaten pointed out, he should have a significant burn to corroborate his story.

[Brainache]

Pure speculation.

HA!

So standard tour guide business practice is pure speculation, but invisible occult forces emerging from ancient stone circles to melt some guy's watch is a perfectly reasonable conclusion?

[RoboTimbo]

I'm only accepting that his account was accurate (based upon the way the whole situation developed), not that a mysterious force melted his watch.

And yet you posited three scenarios where it could have happened, one of which was some mysterious influence by Stonehenge.

With absolutely no evidence.

[Rodney]

HA!

So standard tour guide business practice is pure speculation, but invisible occult forces emerging from ancient stone circles to melt some guy's watch is a perfectly reasonable conclusion?
I'm sure you must have a massive amount of evidence demonstrating that "standard tour guide business practice" involves the guide throwing out an off-hand comment about his watch mysteriously stopping and then, when a tour participant asks for more information, never suggesting to that participant that he is available for another tour to explore that mystery. You do have that evidence . . . don't you?

[Rodney]

And yet you posited three scenarios where it could have happened, one of which was some mysterious influence by Stonehenge.

With absolutely no evidence . . .
. . . supporting any of the three scenarios.

[Foolmewunz]

. . . supporting any of the three scenarios.

"Supporting"? Not really.

"Allowing for any of the three scenarios" is more accurate.

More important, though, is that you're affording equal probability to the three, yet you've left off that it was damaged by the intense gaze of an invisible ogre, and all ogres are known to have radioactive vision.

So, actually, we now see that there are four possibilities. All with equal ratings in probability, too.

Or maybe not. Maybe some people are predisposed to believe in the wooish explanation.


ETA: Oops, sorry Robo - stepped all over your post. Beatcha by about a second, I think.

[RoboTimbo]

. . . supporting any of the three scenarios.
I wonder if you would answer this now, then:
Would you want more evidence for any one of those three possible explanations than the other two before you would give it any credence? Or do you think all three possibilities have equal chance of happening?

[Brainache]

I'm sure you must have a massive amount of evidence demonstrating that "standard tour guide business practice" involves the guide throwing out an off-hand comment about his watch mysteriously stopping and then, when a tour participant asks for more information, never suggesting to that participant that he is available for another tour to explore that mystery. You do have that evidence . . . don't you?

Why would I need evidence for something as mundane as a Tour Guide telling an anecdote that he hopes will be repeated by his audience? Is this first guided tour you have ever been on? Ever been to one of those old Castle tours? Or the Tower of London? Something like that?

[Resume]

Let's see.

A tour guide invents a story.

Versus.

"Energy" (or something) from a collection of stones melts the innards of a tour guide's watch.

Hmmm.

[Foolmewunz]

Or it could've been the Emporio Armani Hershey's Kisses Comemorative - with insides of chocolate.

[Ladewig]

I'm only accepting that his account was accurate (based upon the way the whole situation developed), not that a mysterious force melted his watch.

So no one in this thread believes that a mysterious force melted his watch, yet the thread lasted for six pages. Remarkable.

[Akhenaten]

<snip>

And your comment about him having "absolutely no evidence whatsoever" implies that, if he had shown the group the watch, that would have been evidence of something paranormal happening.





How the hell do you make that leap? Showing people a watch with some melted bits would have been evidence of his "interesting experience" not something paranormal. The tour guide, according to your story, is a self-confessed sceptic of the paranormal.

The leap to a paranormal explanation was made by Rodney, and not by the tour guide or RoboTimbo



Obviously, it would not have been.





Yes, obviously. So why did you just say that RoboTimbo was implying that it did?

[Akhenaten]

Post #1


I recently visited Stonehenge and was told by the tour guide, Steve Evans (http://steve-tourguide.com) that a few weeks ago his rather expensive watch stopped working there as he conducted an "inner circle" tour (walking among the stones -- not permitted on most tours). He says that he sent the watch for repairs, and was told that the repair cost would be 170 pounds (about 210 Euros or 275 American dollars), as the internal parts of the watch had been damaged by heat. He claims to be a skeptic about the paranormal, but says that he is unable to account for how his watch could have been damaged by heat.





Post #166

Exactly. On the one hand, if the tour guide does not have pictures of the melted inner workings of the watch (which, based on his story, he would not be expected to have), that conclusively disproves his story. If, on the other hand, he has such pictures, that proves absolutely nothing. Ain't "skepticism" wonderful?





Post #207

I'm only accepting that his account was accurate (based upon the way the whole situation developed), not that a mysterious force melted his watch.





Grows with the telling, doesn't it?

[Akhenaten]

. . . supporting any of the three scenarios.





Five.

You've left out both the 'made up out of whole cloth' and Teh Stick™ scenarios.

[Mojo]

He then stated that he was a skeptic about the paranormal, but...


It isn't as if this narrative device has never been used before. Whenever anyone says something like "I'm not [whatever], but..." you can be reasonably confident that the start of the sentence will be substantially undermined by whatever follows it.

[Rodney]

I wonder if you would answer this now, then:
I would want evidence for each of the three possible explanations before giving any one of them credence. While two of those explanations are relatively mundane, ruling the third one out on that basis is unscientific.

[Marduk]

I would want evidence for each of the three possible explanations before giving any one of them credence. While two of those explanations are relatively mundane, ruling the third one out on that basis is unscientific.

No, accepting some woo youve been told by someone who has a vested interest in your wallet is unscientific
and quite naive and gullible too

did he show you the watch ?
did he show you a report from a watch restorer ?
have you ever heard of a watch being damaged under the same circumstances ?

no
so we just have his word for it
actually
we have just your word for it
and you are not the most reliable person for being able to tell when youre being scammed are you considering some of your other woo beliefs

have you tried the burnt wood cure for cancer yet that you were so insistent was credible
lol
:p

[RoboTimbo]

I would want evidence for each of the three possible explanations before giving any one of them credence. While two of those explanations are relatively mundane, ruling the third one out on that basis is unscientific.

Interestingly enough, the two mundane explanations weren't the ones that prompted you to title this thread. What evidence did you ask him for that would substantiate some form of "energy" from Stonehenge being the cause? And how would you rule out elves being the cause? How would you rule out misaligned chakras as being the cause? How would you rule out an invisible alien directed energy beam? Witch's spell? God's ire? Demon possession? Voodoo doll?

In other words, how were you able to pinpoint the only fantastic explanation as being Stonehenge?

[ohp]

Well, I think this thread is going to go as far as it can. Shall we add this to the "stuff that probably had some basis in truth, and probably had a mundane explanation, but we await supernatural evidence with much anticipation" file?

I fear that even if it was a magical or alien force, the evidence has long been discarded in the bin of a watch repair shop.

If we're not careful this thread might turn into the basis of a half hour special that sits alongside the likes of "Bermuda triangle: We cover the same old ground", "the top 10 biggest digging machines" and "Was Hitler an alien?" on the kind of satellite channels that don't pay enough for serious investigative journalism.

[Marduk]

Has anyone thought to contact the tour guide and get his side of the story, perhaps he just mentioned the watch as a humourous observation and didn't intend anyone to take it seriously.

Maybe someone could contact the National trust and ask them if Mr Evans has reported the damage to his watch to them with a view to being compensated for the repair work, I am presuming that he was covered by the national trusts workers insurance which covers their employees. Or perhaps they have received other reports that would make his claim (as reported by Rodney) more credible.
:p