Game Over: 100 Million Americans Can't Be Wrong.

[AJM8125]

Math you can't argue with, or something like it:

In the recent Angus Reid Public Opinion survey of a representative national sample of American adults, 62 per cent of respondents disagree with the view that the “Sept. 11 incident was a big fabrication as a pretext for the campaign against terrorism and a prelude for staging an invasion against Afghanistan.” Far more Republicans disagree at 80 percent, compared to 66 percent of Independents and 55 percent of Democrats.

Consistent with this is that two-thirds of Americans (67 percent) agree with the government commission that investigated the events of Sept. 11, 2001, which concluded that an attack was carried out by 19 hijackers who were members of the al-Qaeda terrorist organization, led by Osama bin Laden. Though 12 per cent of respondents reject the commission’s findings, one-in-five Americans (21 percent) are undecided. In particular, 35 percent of Independents and 34 percent of Democrats do not accept the official version, compared to just 20 percent of Republicans.

These figures translate to about 100 million Americans that question or find fault with the official 9/11 story, far from a trivial number and far too many to dismiss as conspiracy nuts and part of the lunatic fringe. This is the important message that merits public appreciation.

http://www.truthistreason.net/100-million-americans-question-or-find-fault-with-the-official-911-story

Don't forget to stop by the the donation page!

[TexasJack]

Math you can't argue with, or something like it:



http://www.truthistreason.net/100-million-americans-question-or-find-fault-with-the-official-911-story

Don't forget to stop by the the donation page!

Well since about 60 million are in the 0-14 range...What I am thinking, my 2 year old niece has a right to be undecided. She's an American for god's sake.

[Zep]

By that same measure, you should all eat ****. Ten billion flies can't be wrong.

To properly mask profanity. Please see Rule 10 re: the auto-censor (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5669817&postcount=7).

[Scott Sommers]

I have always been confused about what these numbers could mean. I once spoke with a friend who is a Hillary Clinton Democrat from NY City. In the same conversation in which he roasted 911 Truthers as outsiders (outside of NY City) who come into the city to protest, he went on to talk about how evil Bush is because, according to Michael Moore, he was somehow involved in 911. When I pointed out this would also implicate Obama in some sort of wider conspiracy, since he has refused to investigate this claim, he promptly dropped the point as significant.

So as much as these claims of wider believe in a 911 conspiracy are even accurate, I don't know what they could mean. They certainly don't mean the same thing as believing the Iranian government fixed an election. They don't mean the same thing as believing the Chinese government used the army to murder more than a thousand students. what do they really mean?

[TexasJack]

I just find truther numbers to always be completely hilarious when it comes to these polls. First, they always push the undecided into their column. Since 21% are undecided, and 12% reject the commission report, suddenly 33% find fault with it or question it. So doing truther math, they take the entire US population, about 300 million, and divide it by 1/3. Hey, they got 100 million people on their side! What these morons fail to understand, is that polls are for ages 18 and up, not the entire US population. Plus undecided doesn't automatically mean you question the report, it could mean a variety of things like they don't know enough about it, haven't read it, etc.

12% in any US election is a colossal landslide.

Truthers, they are always good for a laugh.

[Oystein]

...
So as much as these claims of wider believe in a 911 conspiracy are even accurate, I don't know what they could mean. They certainly don't mean the same thing as believing the Iranian government fixed an election. They don't mean the same thing as believing the Chinese government used the army to murder more than a thousand students. what do they really mean?

I don't understand what you compare in these comparisons. Could you explain, please?

[Oystein]

The problem with such polls is of course that you are asking people for a verdict who are ill-informed about the case - as probably most Americans are. I'd guess the Average citizen remembers the images of fire, smoke and billowing dust, and has heard about the conclusion "19 Arab terrorists". The probably know little or nothing about the chains of evidence in between.

The poll therefore does not reveal any truth about the events, but rather a truth about how the events were presented by the media and how the media presentation has been percieved by the public.

In similar fashion, if you do a poll asking "do you think there is a god?", then maybe 80% will say "yes" in the USA, 50% in France and 20% in Russia (I am making these numbers up, just to make a point). Do those result inform us about the truth of a god's existence? Not at all.

[Scott Sommers]

I don't understand what you compare in these comparisons. Could you explain, please?

I keep getting told how the US government murders people in the streets. I get told this by people who post their names, phone numbers and addresses on the Internet. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was a bunch of children playing a game.

What do I mean with this comparison? When Iranian students were protesting election results and were posting twitter and Facebook posts about demonstrations, they were hiding their identity. I was part of international support that set my Facebook and Twitter clocks to Tehran time so that Iranian police who were monitoring these sites would get bogged down looking for all the posts coming from Iran. Do 911 Truthers act like this? Not at all. They post contact information on the Net.

Do 100 million Americans REALLY believe that Bush blew up the WTC buildings? Are you joking? My friend from NY believed this until it implicated Obama as well. So Bill Smith and Jihad Jane and the others can pretend that America is ripe for revolution because 100 million Americans agree that bush blew the WTC buildings.

But then We Are Change can't get more than 5 people out for a demonstration and it seems that none of thiose people are firefighters or demolition experts.

Does that clear up my garbled writing?

[Oystein]

...
Does that clear up my garbled writing?

Yes, thanks, and makes sense :)

[TexasJack]

The poll therefore does not reveal any truth about the events, but rather a truth about how the events were presented by the media and how the media presentation has been percieved by the public.

In similar fashion, if you do a poll asking "do you think there is a god?", then maybe 80% will say "yes" in the USA, 50% in France and 20% in Russia (I am making these numbers up, just to make a point). Do those result inform us about the truth of a god's existence? Not at all.

Of course, it's an argumentum ad populum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum). But it's funny how truthers use these polls to try show there is a broad base of appeal for their cause, when in reality the support is minuscule. They misrepresent the results of the polls entirely, just like they misrepresent the facts of 9/11.
I'll never forget at the height of the truther craze, they used a poll on numerous kook sites to declare 84% of the people believed 9/11 was an inside job. Of course the results showed nothing of the sort. And, as has been pointed out, the real proof is watching these idiots try to organize rallies and such, with dismal results.

It's just always funny to watch these guys work numbers is such an erroneous fashion.

[Cuddles]

A few posts have been removed to AAH. Please stay on topic.

[carlitos]

Sept. 11 incident was a big fabrication as a pretext for the campaign against terrorism and a prelude for staging an invasion against AfghanistanNo competent pollster would ask anyone for their opinion of the sentence above. Fabrication? Pretext? Prelude? Seriously, any findings from this are meaningless. If anything, the results could be interpreted like a reading comprehension test.

I put the above question through an online readability tester, and got:

Readable Score: 33 (The higher the score the easier the article is to read!)
Grade Level: 9

Now here is similar question from the 2006 Zogby poll. You are asked to agree / disagree with: "Bush exploited Sept. 11 attacks

Readable Score: 69 (The higher the score the easier the article is to read!)
Grade Level: 4

I think that these truthers get so used to their convoluted language, they don't even notice it anymore. Ask 10 people what "false flag" or "psyop" means, and let me know how you do.

[catsmate1]

100 Million Americans Can't Be Wrong.
Really?

[McHrozni]

I find their reasoning rather odd. Taking their claims at face value and assume that indeed, 38% of Americans can't be wrong about 9/11. But ... if they are right, then 62% of Americans must be wrong about 9/11.

They're essentially claiming that the opinions of 100 million people, through the sheer weight of superior numbers, trump the opinions of 200 million people (rounding the numbers to a rough estimate).

Typical truther stupidity, really. We should have a new category in dictionary: truther stupid.

McHrozni

[TexasJack]

OK, for fun let's just see how far off the truther number of 100 million is. First, there are about 300 million people in the U.S. We immediately knock off 70 million, ages 0-17, since they were not considered in the poll. That leaves 230 million. 12% of 230 million is 27.6 million, a far cry from their 100 million. Juxtapose that with the 67% that completely reject the notion "9/11 was a big fabrication as a pretext for the campaign against terrorism and a prelude for staging an invasion against Afghanistan," and you have 154 million rejecting that notion.

So the final score is 154 to 27. Sorry truthers, despite a loaded question (home field advantage?), you get trounced again.

[beachnut]

Math you can't argue with, or something like it:



http://www.truthistreason.net/100-million-americans-question-or-find-fault-with-the-official-911-story

Don't forget to stop by the the donation page!


In the end, truth is more important than new buildings. Worse than a hole in the ground is a hole in our national soul. We need Congress to authorize and fund a new 9/11 investigation.
Fund a new investigation, which the idiot will not understand? 8 years and he can't figure out 911.
Where is his fellow army of 100 million?

[sts60]

Since the National Science Foundation found that roughly a quarter of Americans believe the Sun revolves around the Earth, I think about a quarter of all U.S. Government funding of astronomy and space science should go towards geocentric studies.

As for Scott's experience, I've noticed that a lot of people seem to "believe" things very casually, without really thinking about either the basis for or the implications of said belief. "Oh sure, they faked the Moon landings." "Yeah, Obama never released his birth certificate." "Yeah, the government was involved in 9/11." But many people who say such things will, when pressed with hard factual information, or asked, "Have you thought what else would have to be true for this to be real...?", will backpedal or blow the whole thing off. They're not very attached to such beliefs, even though they may go back to repeating them.

In my experience, this phenomenon can be seen on many levels, not just national or planetary levels, but also right down at the neighborhood level. People hear something casually and believe it casually... and when they are corrected, they're rarely embarrassed by believing something dramatically wrong.

Of course, the true believers are another story. They cannot be dislodged from their beliefs with dynamite, and react very strongly when exposed to facts and reason. It's personal with them.

[uke2se]

When I hear truthers spout the "numbers" argument, I always think of the excellent South Park episode "Mystery of the Urinal Deuce".

Kyle: Anybody who thinks 9/11 was a conspiracy is a retard.
Cartman: Oh, really? Well, did you know that over one-fourth of people in America think that 9/11 was a conspiracy? Are you saying that one-fourth of Americans are retards?
Kyle: Yes, I'm saying one-fourth of Americans are retards.
Stan: Yeah, at least one-fourth.
Kyle: Lets take a test sample. (to Cartman) Theres 4 of us, you're a retard, and thats one-fourth.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

When I hear truthers spout the "numbers" argument, I always think of the excellent South Park episode "Mystery of the Urinal Deuce".

Kyle: Anybody who thinks 9/11 was a conspiracy is a retard.
Cartman: Oh, really? Well, did you know that over one-fourth of people in America think that 9/11 was a conspiracy? Are you saying that one-fourth of Americans are retards?
Kyle: Yes, I'm saying one-fourth of Americans are retards.
Stan: Yeah, at least one-fourth.
Kyle: Lets take a test sample. (to Cartman) Theres 4 of us, you're a retard, and thats one-fourth.

Read my signature. :D

[dafydd]

When are these one hundred million people going to take to the streets and demand a new investigation?

[Bell]

When are these one hundred million people going to take to the streets and demand a new investigation?

When Jersey Shore season two has ended. Maybe.

[dafydd]

When Jersey Shore season two has ended. Maybe.

A never ending soap,I presume?

[Bell]

A never ending soap,I presume?

Alas. No wonder "they" hate us.

[beachnut]

When Jersey Shore season two has ended. Maybe.
When Canada stops exporting Flashpoint.

[KingMerv00]

The bandwagon fallacy:

There are about 6 billion people on Earth. The most popular religion is Christianity which has 2 billion followers. Therefore, at least 66.6% of people are wrong about a fundamental question.

[The Almond]

I suppose we also have a problem with conflicting forms of evidence. On the one hand, you have a poll, albeit conducted with some clear bias. On the other hand, we have half a dozen truther rallies, campaigns, email/fax campaigns, and genuine new investigation campaigns all conducted within the last year that have failed miserably due to a) Lack of interest, b) Lack of people, c) A and B.

Let us take, for example,
1) NYCCAN fax campaign -- failed to achieve the laughably simplistic goal of 1000 faxes.

2) New Hampshire voting campaign -- failed to pass in vast majority of voting districts

3) Recent Truther rallies/lectures in a variety of states -- failed to attract more than 100 attendees.

So, there you have it, data to support that actual Truthers make up a vanishingly small demographic, on par with Scientology, and my own "The Almond is your New GOD" cult. Scientology has Tom Cruise, and my cult has great hats, so I don't know how much longer the Truthers can survive without requesting help from the evil Galactic Xenu.

[LightinDarkness]

Argument ad populum.

Truthers yet again show they are a textbook example of logical fallacies.

[Telltale Tom]

The bandwagon fallacy:

There are about 6 billion people on Earth. The most popular religion is Christianity which has 2 billion followers. Therefore, at least 66.6% of people are wrong about a fundamental question.

And they are all elligible to sign the ae911petition. We have a total of 10,000 signatures or 0.00016% of those eligible.

[Scott Sommers]

There are a number of incorrect and ill-informed statements in this post.

Unfortunately it is against forum rules to correct them.

Like what? That people believe things? Or that I have friends? Oh you must mean I'm worng when I imply there's a world indepent of your thoughts. I think reading my post again and assuming that you're not the center of the world will solve most of your problems.

[Scott Sommers]

I suppose we also have a problem with conflicting forms of evidence. On the one hand, you have a poll, albeit conducted with some clear bias. On the other hand, we have half a dozen truther rallies, campaigns, email/fax campaigns, and genuine new investigation campaigns all conducted within the last year that have failed miserably due to a) Lack of interest, b) Lack of people, c) A and B.

Let us take, for example,
1) NYCCAN fax campaign -- failed to achieve the laughably simplistic goal of 1000 faxes.

2) New Hampshire voting campaign -- failed to pass in vast majority of voting districts

3) Recent Truther rallies/lectures in a variety of states -- failed to attract more than 100 attendees.

So, there you have it, data to support that actual Truthers make up a vanishingly small demographic, on par with Scientology, and my own "The Almond is your New GOD" cult. Scientology has Tom Cruise, and my cult has great hats, so I don't know how much longer the Truthers can survive without requesting help from the evil Galactic Xenu.

This is my point. You ask people if they think Bush knew something about 911, their answer doesn't mean they're a Truther. For the most part, the answer addresses whether or not they still support the Bush Adminstration. Asking people to get up in the morning and drive down to the local school to vote for a new investigation is an altogether different matter.

And this is the fundamental difference between our friends here and those people who thing Bush and Cheney are sleazy guys. If you really believe that super-duper-nano thermite was used to blow up the WTC buildings you're nuts. If you really believe the Pentagon was not hit by a plane, you're nuts. It's just the end of the story.

So I can believe the poll results and I can still believe that no one cares about 911 Truth except, increasing, gangs of diagnosed mentally ill people and their white trash unemployed friends.

[carlitos]

Again I can't correct your mistakes as I will get a warning from the moderators and the post will be removed.

But I am sure you will recall my correction re the Iranian election.
In addition to being paranoid, it appears that you are a liar. Please correct the mistakes. There is no reason that this will violate forum rules. Address the argument, not the arguer.

[little grey rabbit]

In addition to being paranoid, it appears that you are a liar. Please correct the mistakes. There is no reason that this will violate forum rules. Address the argument, not the arguer.

The fact that the posts keep disappearing show that I am not a liar.

You can read them here.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=6210223
As you see there is little point in continue to point out the fallacy of Scott's analogies as they will just be removed and a warning given to me.

I agree, carlitos, I don't think it should violate forum rules, but it seems that it does.

[Java Man]

“Sept. 11 incident was a big fabrication as a pretext for the campaign against terrorism and a prelude for staging an invasion against Afghanistan.” Far more Republicans disagree at 80 percent, compared to 66 percent of Independents and 55 percent of Democrats.

Clearly 911 was a key event that fired up the invasion in Afghanistan. Coincidently just like the truther movement it too is still going on. Unlike the truther movement it isn't taking up a considerable percent of the budget and ehem your retirement benefits.

Was 911 created to justify the Afghanistan invasion? Doubtfully so. Was it abused in the benefit of promoting the invasion, yes.

In particular, 35 percent of Independents and 34 percent of Democrats do not accept the official version, compared to just 20 percent of Republicans.

What would you expect after the WMDs in Iraq that never were!?!? That doesn't make them truthers, just doubtful to some degree of what is said in the official version.

[The Platypus]

Even if we were to play along with this illogical BS for a second.

If the 100 million 911 kooks can't be wrong, what about the other 200 million people that are therefore against the 911 kook nonsense?

If you boldly claim that 100 million can't be wrong, how can the other 200 million be wrong?

Since this is just an attempt to sound convincing with some large number, than and even bigger number trumps, therefore 911 kooks still lose.

[carlitos]

The fact that the posts keep disappearing show that I am not a liar.

You can read them here.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=6210223
As you see there is little point in continue to point out the fallacy of Scott's analogies as they will just be removed and a warning given to me.

I agree, carlitos, I don't think it should violate forum rules, but it seems that it does.

It appears that this was because you were discussing the Iranian elections in a thread entitled "100 Million Americans Can't Be Wrong." You will note that scott's posts were also moved. Maybe you could start a thread on the Iranian elections?

[jaydeehess]

When Canada stops exporting Flashpoint.

beachnut, that is just trade retaliation for "Survivor" and "Big Brother":D

[jaydeehess]

Even if we were to play along with this illogical BS for a second.

If the 100 million 911 kooks can't be wrong, what about the other 200 million people that are therefore against the 911 kook nonsense?

If you boldly claim that 100 million can't be wrong, how can the other 200 million be wrong?

Since this is just an attempt to sound convincing with some large number, than and even bigger number trumps, therefore 911 kooks still lose.

Numbers don't lie. Obviously 100 million people are at least twice as wrong as 200 million! :)

[Sabretooth]

- so, 67% of Americans believe 2+2=4
- the other 33% believe 2+2=5

yes, 100 million Americans CAN be wrong.

[jaydeehess]

Clearly 911 was a key event that fired up the invasion in Afghanistan. Coincidently just like the truther movement it too is still going on. Unlike the truther movement it isn't taking up a considerable percent of the budget and ehem your retirement benefits.

Was 911 created to justify the Afghanistan invasion? Doubtfully so. Was it abused in the benefit of promoting the invasion, yes.



What would you expect after the WMDs in Iraq that never were!?!? That doesn't make them truthers, just doubtful to some degree of what is said in the official version.

Java Man , you fall for the conflation of events that the truthers promote and that GWB et al disabused the American public with. The Bush administration did indeed mention 9/11 and Iraq in the same breath but usually took great care NOT to accuse the Iraqis of direct involvement in the events of 9/11.
However, because GWB made these suggestions many Americans did and still do believe that Hussein was involved and thus the 911TM jumps to its conclusion that the 911 events were orchestrated to provide reason to invade both Afghanistan and Iraq. The major flaw in such reasoning is that if this were true then it is odd that the NWO/Illuminati, Zionists/ rogue American officials, did not deem it worthwhile to ensure that at least one of the hijackers be Afghani or Iraqi.

Given the abuse of information that the GWB administration promoted it is not unusual at all that many Americans do not believe anything that was said about the reasoning behind invading Iraq. That is however a very different story than the reasoning behind invading Afghanistan. OBL was in that country and the gov't there refused to take him into custody. The entire world watched the results of the 911 suicide hijackings and the vast majority agreed that the USA had a serious beef with Afghanistan over this.

Years later though it is obvious that the GWB really screwed up in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Rumsfeld SHOULD go down as one of the worst heads of the Defense Dept. in the history of the USA and Bush and Cheney share that blame as well.

Had the USA pushed forth in Afghanistan in the beginning and captured OBL and put a severe dent in , or killed al-Qada as an organization it would have set back Islamic terrorism a great deal. A concerted effort then to improve the status and well being of the common Afghani would have curtailed the recruitment of anti-American organizations. Instead feild commanders were ignored when they made suggestions, Rumsfeld's plans were to be followed instead. (Rummy apparently never heard of the idea that battle plans only survive until first contact), and instead of a great and sustained effort to improve common Afghani conditions there have been bombings of weddings and hit and miss (pun intended) efforts at improving infrastructure.

Iraq saw similar failings. The initial overrunning of the country was done with as few forces as could be expected to ensure this outcome. The police force was disbanded, the army disbanded, and there were not enough Americans in Iraq to control the borders and police the cities and anarchy resulted with factional infighting and an influx of anti-American fundementalist Islamic groups. The fundementalist Islamics hated Hussein for his western ways and considered him a bad Muslim, but with him gone and the borders wide open and Americans there, in the Holy land, of course they came to fight.

In short GWB= worst POTUS in history
Cheney = worst Vice Pres. in history
Rumsfeld=worst Sec. of Defense in history

Obama gets to inherit a complete balls-up and take the blame because people have short memories(Micheal Steele himself was quoted as saying that Afghanistan is a war of Obama's choosing,,,,:eek:)

[jaydeehess]

The fact that the posts keep disappearing show that I am not a liar.

You can read them here.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=6210223


.

Hmmm, you make the accusation that posts are "Disappearing" and then link to a place in the JREF forum where these disappeared posts can be found.
Your use of hyperbole is duly noted.

Your inability to recognize that they were off topic and thus moved(not caused to disappear) does not help your attempts to be taken seriously.

[Java Man]

Java Man , you fall for the conflation of events that the truthers promote and that GWB et al disabused the American public with. The Bush administration did indeed mention 9/11 and Iraq in the same breath but usually took great care NOT to accuse the Iraqis of direct involvement in the events of 9/11.

I never said they did. Afghanistan was a direct result of 911. The loss of government credibility was influenced by the WMD fiasco. Two unrelated events. The WMD issue I posted was in relationship to the undermining of govt. credibility not as a way to imply 911 lead to Iraq.

[beachnut]

I never said they did. Afghanistan was a direct result of 911. The loss of government credibility was influenced by the WMD fiasco. Two unrelated events. The WMD issue I posted was in relationship to the undermining of govt. credibility not as a way to imply 911 lead to Iraq.

Poor Taliban, too busy burning movies to send us UBL.

Saddam; failed to make it clear he was clean; or he hides WMDs very well.

911 truth asks for a new investigation due to ignorance; they will fail to understand a new investigation. 19 terrorists killed on 911. The topic of the thread, is a failed person who can't figure out reality. Not Saddam, not the Taliban's failure to help the US.

... Coincidently just like the truther movement it too is still going on. Unlike the truther movement it isn't taking up a considerable percent of the budget and ehem your retirement benefits.
... lol ... An anti-intellectual movement based on hearsay, lies and fantasy. The cult member must be so proud they are still going on.

[TSR]

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit
"The fact that the posts keep disappearing show that I am not a liar.

You can read them here."

It appears that this was because you were discussing the Iranian elections in a thread entitled "100 Million Americans Can't Be Wrong." You will note that scott's posts were also moved. Maybe you could start a thread on the Iranian elections?

.
"My posts are disappearing, and you can read them here"

Strange usage of "disappear."
.

[Orphia Nay]

Math you can't argue with, or something like it:



http://www.truthistreason.net/100-million-americans-question-or-find-fault-with-the-official-911-story

Don't forget to stop by the the donation page!

:newlol

The poll's creators tell a different story:

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/35252/most_americans_reject_9_11_conspiracy_theories/

Most Americans Reject 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
March 21, 2010

(Angus Reid Global Monitor) - Few people in the United States agree with some of the allegations that have been made in relation to the events of 9/11, according to a poll by Angus Reid Public Opinion. Only 15 per cent of respondents think claims that the collapse of the World Trade Center was the result of a controlled demolition are credible.

[...]

:)

Here's their link to the full poll:

http://bit.ly/d4DW9n

[Fonebone]

:newlol
The poll's creators tell a different story:
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/35252/most_americans_reject_9_11_conspiracy_theories/
:)Here's their link to the full poll:
http://bit.ly/d4DW9n

50 million FRENCHMEN can't be wrong

Listen to Sophie's words very carefully before you answer .
u-IP0DE2kTI
--or--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-IP0DE2kTI

[AJM8125]

That's a false frog operation.

[Miragememories]

66 million Germans couldn't be wrong in 1933 either.

Too funny.

MM

[DGM]

66 million Germans couldn't be wrong in 1933 either.

Too funny.

MM


Not really! Poor taste use of your "standard" reply. :(

[Miragememories]

Not really! Poor taste use of your "standard" reply. :(

Yes, well the aftermath of 9/11 was in poor taste as well.

MM

[DGM]

Yes, well the aftermath of 9/11 was in poor taste as well.

MM
I can agree with that to some degree (although I don't think we will agree on what parts).

[Miragememories]

I can agree with that to some degree (although I don't think we will agree on what parts).
Well apparently 2008 as was okay with you.

And the wars?...well they probably helped corporate profits.

I'm not sure what part of post 9/11 you have a problem with other than the 9/11 Truth Movement?

MM

[DGM]

Well apparently 2008 as was okay with you.

And the wars?...well they probably helped corporate profits.

I'm not sure what part of post 9/11 you have a problem with other than the 9/11 Truth Movement?

MM
As fun as it would be to hand you your ass right here, I think I'll let you do it yourself.

How exactly was the 2008 "market down turn" connected to 9/11? How did "corporate profits" fit into your equation?

We're all waiting, got something the rest of the world doesn't know about?

[JihadJane]

100 Million Americans Can't Be Wrong.

Why not?

[AJM8125]

66 million Germans couldn't be wrong in 1933 either.

Too funny.

MM

So, essentially you're saying 100 million Americans finding fault with the true narrative of 9/11 is like the German people's adoration for Hitler in 1933?

Too Funny.

[Pantaz]

That's a false frog operation.

The 9/11 forum always gives me a chuckle, but that line really got me! :clap:

[dafydd]

So, essentially you're saying 100 million Americans finding fault with the true narrative of 9/11 is like the German people's adoration for Hitler in 1933?

Too Funny.

Miragememories,you're a tonic.Keep it up,a career in stand-up beckons.

[Scott Sommers]

So, essentially you're saying 100 million Americans finding fault with the true narrative of 9/11 is like the German people's adoration for Hitler in 1933?

Too Funny.

I think he's making fun of you for saying 100 million Americans have this issue. I wish I didn't have to keep saying this - 911 Truth rallies get hardly any attendance. Almost anyone who does go is under 25, poorly educated, and probably affiliated with some sort of Christian group. There are no firefighters or construction engineers.

But don't believe me; take the 911 Truth challenge. Next time you're down at the bus stop and there's that honey sitting there waiting, just ask her what she thinks about Bush blowing up the WTC buildings. She how many dates you can get from her. Or better yet, walk into your nearest firehouse or police station and ask those guys what they think really happened on 911. Take a camera. Put it on Youtube. Let me know how things for ya', dude.

[sheeplesnshills]

"These figures translate to about 100 million Americans that question or find fault with the official 9/11 story, far from a trivial number and far too many to dismiss as conspiracy nuts and part of the lunatic fringe. This is the important message that merits public appreciation."

About 85% of Americans believe in a God but that says nothing as whether or not there he/she/it actual exists. Science and the Truth is not a democratic process.
Stupid people believe stupid things, foolish people believe foolish thing, and biased people believe biased things. It is an unfortunate characteristic of our species that we tend to believe things without having any evidence for that belief.

[sheeplesnshills]

"And the wars?...well they probably helped corporate profits."

Some gained, some lost but that happens when anything happens in this world, not just wars.

[dafydd]

Hey Taliban come gimme Bin Laden,daylight come an' i wan' go home.

[Mince]

These figures translate to about 100 million Americans that question or find fault with the official 9/11 story, far from a trivial number and far too many to dismiss as conspiracy nuts and part of the lunatic fringe.

These figures also translate to about 200 million Americans that don't think 9/11 was perpetrated or (intentionally) assisted by the U.S. Government. If 100 million people can't be wrong, how can 200 million people be wrong? Regarding the 100 million; I bet not many of them, despite having understandable questions, think the U.S. Government was directly responsible for the attacks.

[Telltale Tom]

These figures also translate to about 200 million Americans that don't think 9/11 was perpetrated or (intentionally) assisted by the U.S. Government. If 100 million people can't be wrong, how can 200 million people be wrong? Regarding the 100 million; I bet not many of them, despite having understandable questions, think the U.S. Government was directly responsible for the attacks.

If 100 million Americans support the truth then I wish they would be a bit more proactive and get more than 8,000 to sign the ae911truth petition. If 99.992% of the people who support the truth will not sign a truth petition then how will we ever find the truth. Its as if they don't care!

[dafydd]

Back on form Tom.

[JihadJane]

Approximately 90% of people inthe US believe in God. 70% believe in the devil.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Approximately 90% of people inthe US believe in God. 70% believe in the devil.

And what percentage of people think that you Truthers are crazy & paranoid JJ?

[Scott Sommers]

If 100 million Americans support the truth then I wish they would be a bit more proactive and get more than 8,000 to sign the ae911truth petition. If 99.992% of the people who support the truth will not sign a truth petition then how will we ever find the truth. Its as if they don't care!

Exactly!! I have always been a supporter of 911 Truth petitions and have signed many of them. It really is disappointing that we don't have the signatures of the hundreds of millions of American who support our cause. Perhaps they fear for their lives. We can only hope they follow the examples of those brave Americans, Dicki Gage, Judy Wood, and our JREF friend Tony Z.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Of course 100 million Americans can be wrong. They often are. More than that believe in some form or another of creationism.

This is simply the bandwagon fallacy (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/bandwagn.html) or argumentum ad populum.

(Sorry if this has already been pointed out.)

[JoeTheJuggler]

Exactly!! I have always been a supporter of 911 Truth petitions and have signed many of them. It really is disappointing that we don't have the signatures of the hundreds of millions of American who support our cause. Perhaps they fear for their lives. We can only hope they follow the examples of those brave Americans, Dicki Gage, Judy Wood, and our JREF friend Tony Z.

Consider the proposition, "The capital of the United States is New York".

There are people who actually believe this proposition is true. Would it matter at all how many people hold that opinion or even sign a petition calling for the investigation of the veracity of this proposition?

The proposition is still false, and any "investigation" would be pointless pandering to people with very dumb ideas.

[JoeTheJuggler]

And what percentage of people think that you Truthers are crazy & paranoid JJ?

I'm not sure, but I think JihadJane was making the same point I made. I think she was pointing out the fallacy in the OP's reasoning.

[TexasJack]

These polls are absurd to begin with, but I think AJM posted this thread to also show the absurdity of truther math. The poll indicates they have 12%, yet they add undecided, plus include little babies and children as the part of their 100 million.

[AJM8125]

These polls are absurd to begin with, but I think AJM posted this thread to also show the absurdity of truther math. The poll indicates they have 12%, yet they add undecided, plus include little babies and children as the part of their 100 million.

^Give that man a cigar.

[Sabretooth]

Consider the proposition, "The capital of the United States is New York".

Wait...are you saying it's not?! This is preposterous! Where's your proof and subsequent anonymous utube video?!

[TexasJack]

^Give that man a cigar.

Done

KUDpc04r_QM

[JoeTheJuggler]

These polls are absurd to begin with, but I think AJM posted this thread to also show the absurdity of truther math. The poll indicates they have 12%, yet they add undecided, plus include little babies and children as the part of their 100 million.

Ah--I didn't realize AJM is not a Truther. (Without knowing, it's hard to tell!)

At any rate, the poll and the math are moot. Even if 100 million were an accurate reporting of a reasonable poll, the argument that this has anything to do with establishing the truth is still flawed as an argumentum ad populum.

[TexasJack]

Ah--I didn't realize AJM is not a Truther. (Without knowing, it's hard to tell!)

At any rate, the poll and the math are moot. Even if 100 million were an accurate reporting of a reasonable poll, the argument that this has anything to do with establishing the truth is still flawed as an argumentum ad populum.

Absolutely, and this was pointed out previously (I know I also get lazy and don't read entire threads either). I think their motivation for lying about the numbers, however, is to show that with a large contingent of people in the U.S. questioning the Commission Report, 100 million, that a new investigation is warranted. But, as Scott has pointed out, even the real numbers (I estimated 27 million) are soft. Otherwise, you would see much more people at organized truther events. Instead, their biggest numbers at these events are only a few hundred.

[Myriad]

The odd thing is that there has been significant controversy over the siting of a new mosque near Ground Zero in NYC. You'd think if so many Americans believe it was the government's fault, there would have been at least a comparable level of controversy over the opening of a military recruiting station (http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/WbRcjBnoK1U/Military+Opens+Recruiting+Station+Near+Ground) in the same area. If the cries of protest over that outrage have been suppressed by the evil mass media, perhaps a Truther can point me to some of the no doubt numerous blog posts and YouTube videos raising their vehement objections.

Respectfully,
Myriad