true chiropractor story

[upgrayedd]

My mission here is to edify...the whole situation was very surreal.

So my wife goes to see a chiropractor last Friday, she doesn’t tell me this because of my distaste for them. She tells me when she leaves the appointment where she went, I asked why she went. She says she’s been having neck and arm pain for a long long time and just hasn’t told me about it. After an afternoon of cajoling her, I get her to go to a ortho who specializes in spines and pain management, and she calls to cancel her follow ups with the chiro.

Fast forward to yesterday, Tuesday. She sees the ortho, he says she likely has a herniated disc in her neck, and scheduled an mri for this Friday. Early Tuesday the chiro she saw on Friday, calls her and leaves a message. Message is all about how “he’s cool with the fact she wants to make an informed decision” but “he’s not cool with her not exploring the chiro side”. This is the same chiro, who said I had to come in with her because of something like she’s not balanced both of us need to be there…bottom line it sounded like a therapy session this guy was going to conduct.

Guy also stated as soon as his daughter was born he did a spinal adjustment on her. Because as we all know, sitting in the womb is such an unnatural position to be in. 0.o Also told her about the healing power of self, prayer….etc. she told me later there were antivax posters on the walls too.

Fast forward to last night. Lets call this place tom’s chiropractic. Well “tom” gave her a call at 9:30pm. Trying to convince her to reschedule her cancelled appointments, blah blah blah. “why did you cancel?” she sugar coated that answer for them, she said I wasn’t comfortable with chiro’s, instead of telling the truth that I thought they were all batcrap crazy.

Bottom line, both guys sounded like salesmen, not doctors. Any doctor I’ve been to, and decided to cancel an appointment or no longer go to see them, they NEVER called me back and tried to hard sell me on “the treatment".

i fully expect many tl:dr here, but meh.

[Kochanski]

Not surprised at all.

If (a really BIG IF) I was ever going to see a chiro, I would have two questions to ask before I did anything:

1. What is your view on subluxations?

If answer is they are the cause of all...I walk, chiro is deep in the land of woo-woo.

2. Do you practice informed consent?

Meaning do they inform patients of the dangers of cervical manipulation (ie stroke, paralysis, death). If they do not, I walk, chiro is dangerous in the extreme.

The fact that the chiro your wife went to see manipulated an infant should I think be grounds for criminal prosecution. The antivax posters should be ripped from the walls.

If the salesman/chiro continues to call, have your wife ask my questions, then let the chiro know that she has made an informed decision about chiro ;)

[upgrayedd]

saw some videos on their website, in which a few stated there are no side effects to chiropractic care, also they advocate going to a chiro 1st for any malady.....:rolleyes:

in regards to



1. What is your view on subluxations?

If answer is they are the cause of all...I walk, chiro is deep in the land of woo-woo.



here's some quotes from a few other videos


In this video, Dr. Colloca explains how nerve interference in the neck can lead to functional problems in the ear resulting in ear infections. He further explains how chiropractic can then help.


another....


In this video, Dr. Ohm describes how the birth process can be very traumatic to an infants spine. She explains the need to have a newborn's spine checked by a chiropractor to look for problems related to the birth process


also talking about how they treat "but not necessarily we can cure" asthma, bed wetting etc.... in kids

i think my wife is lucky i found out about this when i did

[upgrayedd]

of course the most important part.....


Dr. Mattia explains from his vast experience how chiropractic can help both the professional, and weekend golfer improve his/her game.
:confused:

[Kochanski]

saw some videos on their website, in which a few stated there are no side effects to chiropractic care, also they advocate going to a chiro 1st for any malady.....:rolleyes:

in regards to



here's some quotes from a few other videos



another....



also talking about how they treat "but not necessarily we can cure" asthma, bed wetting etc.... in kids

i think my wife is lucky i found out about this when i did

*Engage sarcasm mode*

Yes, we all know that videos are far more valuable than double blinded clinical studies in providing evidence.

*End sarcasm mode*

As far as birth trauma & the techniques these chiros are using to get your wife back in to treatment, I am afraid their connections to $cientology are showing.

[Blue Wode]

Early Tuesday the chiro she saw on Friday, calls her and leaves a message. Message is all about how “he’s cool with the fact she wants to make an informed decision” but “he’s not cool with her not exploring the chiro side”. This is the same chiro, who said I had to come in with her...

It's a practice-building scam:
"They force all patients to bring their spouse in so that they can also sign the spouse up for expensive treatment. They regularly beg for more referrals."

More...
http://chirotalk.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=cult&thread=3009&page=10#36309




It's also worth remembering that such chiropractors are often keen to get female patients' husbands to accompany them on the presumption that the husband is the main, or sole, breadwinner. They need to brainwash them into believing that the proposed (invariably numerous) treatment sessions are crucial to their wives' ongoing good health. A sort of slick walletectomy, if you like.

[upgrayedd]

wow, thanks blue

I lol'd when i opened the link, they are part of the maximized living network, so this point was extremely spot on.

thanks for the info!

[Wowbagger]

Not surprised at all.

If (a really BIG IF) I was ever going to see a chiro, I would have two questions to ask before I did anything:
3. What do you think of the germ theory of disease?

Many chiropractors like to downplay the role of the microbe in causing disease. The more they do so, the more into quack territory they likely are. The stronger they accept it, the more legit their practice is likely to be.

[Schrodinger's Cat]

I've worked in health care for the past 6 years. We would never try and do this to a patient who cancelled or wanted to transfer their care elsewhere. Most of our patients in my hospital now were referred here by other doctors who thought we could treat the patient better. We also refer patients out pretty regularly when we know of another hospital that, for instance, offers a clinical trial we do not.

[godless dave]

See if there's a professional association or something for chiropractors in your area. If so, report these sales practices to them and see what they say. I've been told that there are some chiropractors who think their treatments actually work and who try to regulate their profession.

But, there might not be any in your neck of the woods.

[Nanael]

I have a couple of comments to make regarding the persistance of the Chiropractor.

If he had made some adjustments on your wife in that first visit then he will be encouraging her to return because - a single treatment would no doubt prove somewhat ineffective , and if he knows you are a sceptic his fear of being accused of being ineffective in her treatment (which was incomplete) and telling people could be damaging to his business.

If however the first visit was simply detail taking and prechecks he is doing follow up as he feels his methods would prove helpful.

Or he could be a pushy guy!

In our country an MRI and Ortho consult would be very costly and would no doubt cost as much as monthly visits to a Chiro for 2 years.

I have a chronic neck condition due to being spear tackled and doing a lot of microscope work resulting in 'military neck' . I have found over the years when the pain gets too much to bear both chiro and physio treatments are equally effective.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Goodness, any doctor calling and trying to cajole any patient into coming is raises a big red flag no matter what their field. (Maybe with the rare exception of some doctor who has known a patient for years and has some reason to be worried the patient is in denial.)

[Southwind17]

I have a chronic neck condition due to being spear tackled and doing a lot of microscope work resulting in 'military neck' . I have found over the years when the pain gets too much to bear both chiro and physio treatments are equally effective.
Two questions:

You have "found over the years" meaning what - that something gradually changed regarding the effectiveness of one or both procedures?
"Equally effective" meaning what - you continue to have the pain or not?

[NoZed Avenger]

<snip>

- She sees the ortho, he says she likely has a herniated disc in her neck -

<snip>




Any chiro willing to try a manipulation on a possible herniation frankly scares me a bit.

[Southwind17]

Any chiro willing to try a manipulation on a possible herniation frankly scares me a bit.
I had (still have) a herniated disc in the lower back. Saw a chiro for a good few weeks in the absence of:

a diagnosis
knowing what chiro really is (I believe I got confused with orthopaedics!)

After experiencing no improvement I saw a physio, which led to an MRI.

I don't think the chiro treatment had any adverse effect, but it certainly wasn't money well spent (well, not so far as I'm concerned!) :o

What really rags me off is that here in Australia chiropractic is pretty much standard qualifying treatment in most private health schemes. Probably explains why there's an abundance of chiros dotted around just about every residential estate.

[Soapy Sam]

Goodness, any doctor calling and trying to cajole any patient into coming is raises a big red flag no matter what their field. (Maybe with the rare exception of some doctor who has known a patient for years and has some reason to be worried the patient is in denial.)

It would be unusual, I agree- but a "red flag"? Why?
Say a GP examines someone and diagnoses a serious problem which the patient then proceeds to ignore, is it unreasonable for the GP to conclude he maybe failed to get the message across and to make a follow up call?

I agree it might be unusual- but should it be?

[upgrayedd]

It would be unusual, I agree- but a "red flag"? Why?
Say a GP examines someone and diagnoses a serious problem which the patient then proceeds to ignore, is it unreasonable for the GP to conclude he maybe failed to get the message across and to make a follow up call?

I agree it might be unusual- but should it be?

i guess it's a case by case basis. if you know your patient is a diabetic and has said they're not taking meds and doing really bad things to themselves, i'd say it wouldnt be so unusual. in this case, a 20 minute office visit, and he's urging her to come in for the treatments after she cancels the follow ups.

i use the diabetic example because i myself am type 2, when i saw the following i went through the roof...


High blood sugar occurs when the glucose level in the blood rises above a normal level. High blood sugar imbalances can be a precursor to diabetes. Symptoms of high blood sugar levels are tiredness and excessive thirst. If the blood sugar level is high and continues to rise, the kidneys will produce more urine resulting in dehydration. Severe dehydration can induce a coma and possibly death. High blood sugar gradually damages the eyes, heart, kidneys, blood vessels, and nerves. The medical approach offers little past dietary guidelines and insulin.

The Maximized Living approach uses customized nutrition to make sure your body is receiving the right fuel and nutrients. However the most vital test is a scan of your Nervous system to ensure maximum nerve supply is reaching every organ of the body including the pancreas. If this communication is restored the body will not only heal itself but begin to function normally again.


so i can "cure" my diabetes with a spinal adjustment, i'll bet i need to buy their supplements as well to "heal" my pancreas

it's the m.o. for all of these people at maximized living as i've found out. he said she was really messed up and couldn't get better unless she came to see him.

i read that thread at chirotalk that was posted earlier, and all of the stories they were talking about with other maximized living dc's was parroted word for word by this guy. it's a script.

very very dissapointing

[Kochanski]

That Maximized Living site is scary.

http://maximizedliving.com/

It is just all kinds of wrong.

[Tomblvd]

I would never, ever consider calling patients who decided to go elsewhere.

The last thing I need in my practice are patients who are there who don't really want to be and had to be cajoled by slick talk back into the fold.

That is just asking for poor results and potential legal troubles.

But someone that desperate for patients needs to be avoided completely. And it wouldn't be wrong to share your story with friends and family.

[Nanael]

Southwind just answering your queries in an earlier post.

I pretty much have dull neck pain all the time, so often take panadol to control it, but about once a year I will do something minor like flicking head back while drying it with a towel, or slipping and causing neck to 'jar' ,that results in neck 'seizing' for some days.

I know most injuries like this are self limiting and will get better eventually but I find the most rapid recovery is achieved by physical manipulation by either a physio or chiropractor.

The chiropractor I go to is the only professional that required xrays before treatment (this showed the military neck.) Physios merely did a verbal assessment. Both gave me exercises I could use to reduce the injury.

The chiropractor did suggest ongoing 'maintenance' which I have not done for some time, but when I do, the amount of pain killers required is definately reduced. The only reason I don't do 'maintenance' now is the ongoing cost not covered by ACC.

I have never been actively pursued to continue chiro therapies. But as a past user would not be offended if a yearly reminder arrived in the mail.

I do agree however if it has been stated patient is not interested , being pushy is unlikely to gain patient confidence.

[Southwind17]

I know most injuries like this are self limiting and will get better eventually but I find the most rapid recovery is achieved by physical manipulation by either a physio or chiropractor.
In other words identical treatment. I don't think you're talking traditional chiropractic treatment are you, as in vertebral subluxation?