Mormons...a cult??

[J3K]

My girlfriend is Mormon, not by her choice, she doesn't believe in god and is forced to go to church, but to most, she is a mormon. And when the bad things about Mormons come along, she sticks up for them, with things like if Mormons are a cult. She says no, and says it's more like a rumor. But also, she is just a teenager, so the obvious might be hidden from her, or this area of Mormons are not cult like. Anyway, I was just wondering who, in here, believes the Mormons are a cult, and if so, can you give reasons why? I am curious.

edit: I was just talking with my girlfriend, showed her what I wrote, and she sorta kinda kinda sorta disagreed. She thinks by dictionary definition Mormons are a cult. But when it comes down to the rumors about animal sacrificing and such, it's not. I still want all of you peoples opinions though. Thanx.

Hi,

I'd recommend checking out the valuable information here

http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds.htm

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by J3K
My girlfriend is Mormon, not by her choice, she doesn't believe in god and is forced to go to church, but to most, she is a mormon. And when the bad things about Mormons come along, she sticks up for them, with things like if Mormons are a cult. She says no, and says it's more like a rumor. But also, she is just a teenager, so the obvious might be hidden from her, or this area of Mormons are not cult like. Anyway, I was just wondering who, in here, believes the Mormons are a cult, and if so, can you give reasons why? I am curious.

edit: I was just talking with my girlfriend, showed her what I wrote, and she sorta kinda kinda sorta disagreed. She thinks by dictionary definition Mormons are a cult. But when it comes down to the rumors about animal sacrificing and such, it's not. I still want all of you peoples opinions though. Thanx.

She's not a mor(m)on, it sounds like she is an atheist.

When people say cult, usually they mean "wacko-religion". Of course, all religion is a cult by that definition.

However, no one thinks mormons sacrifice animals or maidens or such...

[J3K]

I know she is not a mormon, sorry I said that like that. I was just speaking in a "what most think" sense, because being saying "I don't believe in god" in a mostly christian area, with very religious parents, isn't the best way to go.
And there are many rumors about mormons, at least around here, and animal sacrificeing is one of them.

[Franko]

UndercoverElephant your paranoia is destroying you.

You are allowing Fear and Pessimism to completely govern your existence.

I asked some friends about this Mormon business, but none of them have gotten back to me yet, and I didn't really take it all that serious to be honest.

[J3K]

Franko, UndercoverElephant???? I don't see a reply from him. I'm missing your point towards him. I anticipate hearing what your Mormon friends say though.

[Franko]

Franko, UndercoverElephant???? I don't see a reply from him. I'm missing your point towards him. I anticipate hearing what your Mormon friends say though.

Ohh, sorry “J3K”, that wasn’t directed at “You”. The other day my buddy UCE/Juggler, was explaining to me why we believed that Mormonism is actually a dark Satanic cult bent on bringing some sort of destruction to all of mankind. (prior to the ”real” destruction in 2012).

Apparently a website he found is the empirical evidence that this is gospel truth.

Tell me something though J3K ... from your extensive knowledge of Mormonism, do the Mormons secretly believe that God is female? What about Fate? Are Mormons Fatalists by definition?

[specious_reasons]

Mormonism, from what I've seen and read about it, is not significantly different from the majority of Christian denominations. About the biggest standout is the required missionary work, which hardly qualifies it for, in the "religous tolerance.org" speak, "high demand faith groups". On the other hand, it's hard to be a successful businessman in Utah if your not Mormon. Mormons seem to be very clique-ish.

By my own estimation, they're about as cult-like as any conservative evangelical church.

But they have the bonus of having super-secret underwear.

[J3K]

super secret underwear? lol what?

and Franko, I have no extensive knowledge, just curious about this subject. But as far as I know, they do not secretly worship a female god. Don't know about your other question though.

Originally posted by Franko
UndercoverElephant your paranoia is destroying you.

You are allowing Fear and Pessimism to completely govern your existence.

I asked some friends about this Mormon business, but none of them have gotten back to me yet, and I didn't really take it all that serious to be honest.

Erm.....can I assume you think I have taken on the identity of someone already posting in this thread, Frank? :D

NO SOCK PUPPETS FRANKO. STOP ACCUSING OTHER PEOPLE OF BEING ME.

And if you think what I told you about the mormons is wrong then you simply HAVE NOT DONE YOUR HOMEWORK, Frankyboy. ;)

[J3K]

So what have you said about mormons?

Originally posted by Franko
[B]

Ohh, sorry “J3K”, that wasn’t directed at “You”. The other day my buddy UCE/Juggler, was explaining to me why we believed that Mormonism is actually a dark Satanic cult bent on bringing some sort of destruction to all of mankind. (prior to the ”real” destruction in 2012).


Were we?

News to me.

I just told you what mormons believe the relationship between humans and Gods was......


Apparently a website he found is the empirical evidence that this is gospel truth.


No, Frank. That really is what mormons believe.

[J3K]

So what is it?

Specious :


Mormonism, from what I've seen and read about it, is not significantly different from the majority of Christian denominations.


:eek:

Then you didn't look hard enough.

Originally posted by J3K
So what is it?

"Whatever you say a thing is, it isn't"!

I don't see much point in distinguishing between religions, cults, political movements or anything else in this way, purely so you can pigeonhole things. Mormonism is a religion which has some cult-like characteristics. They believe humans are "Gods in embryo". They believe that the God of this Universe was once a human, and that righteous human beings can ultimately achieve God-hood in a Universe of their own. This particular belief is quite interesting because it pops up in various other unexpected places..... ;)

http://www.studentbodyworld.com/Q%20and%20A/what_is_the_fate_of_mormons.htm

[J3K]

I'm not looking to pigeonhole anything undercoverelephant, just wanted opinions and views on this subject. Thanx for the link though.

[shemp]

I want to know more about the super-secret underwear.

[HarryKeogh]

if there were 1000 mormons there would be a movement to stop them. since there are significantly more they are accepted by most. they preach that you too can be a god of a planet one day!! sign me up.

the wierdest thing to me is when you see a black mormon. if i was black i wouldnt want anything to do with that relgion.

[specious_reasons]

I'll have to find a reference to it, but supposedly elders of the LDS church are given special ummm... undergarments which only other church members are allowed to see. I don't know if there's any real proof of their existence, but it's one of those "too good not to be true" kind of things. :)

UCE:

Mormons don't differ from Christian demoninations in terms of how "cult-like" they are. That's all that was meant by that comment.

[HarryKeogh]

and for the definitive truth on mormonism please read this tract. i like it for it's non-biased viewpoint and for never coming across as "holier than thou"

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp

[specious_reasons]

As a sample:
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon013.htm
http://www.luciferlink.org/mugarments.htm

[Shroud of Akron]

my best friend is a devout mormon(i overlook this), and i have seen his "super secret" underwear. it's really nothing special, as he explained it to me, it's like a baptism for the elders. he has also told me about the god thing, he believes that he will become a god someday. he also used the god thing to try to convert me. furthermore, jesus is the god of this planet, god is his dad, and we are the children of jesus. jesus has a mother in heaven too, i do not know if this is mary. i do not think of LDS as a cult (i just think the founders took too much LSD), just as a way different sect of chritianity. the biggest turn off about LDS, is the whole thing about people that aren't white. if you're not white, it's because your ancestors did not listen to jesus when he came to them, and in retribution god burned them.

in summary, weird religion, not a cult.

[Crotchety Englishman]

cult is in the eye of the beholder - one man's cult is another man's Catholic church....

The mormons have a lot of influence in Hawaii. On the north shore of Oahu around Brigham Young University and the Temple, the neighborhoods are .....sanitized....?
There is little trash and yards are neat or some nice gentlemen from the church will call around and talk to you. If you rent space to students, you are vetted by the university and if they don't like you, no students will stay.

And this baptism thing is like :normal christianity"?

[The Fool]

Originally posted by HarryKeogh
if there were 1000 mormons there would be a movement to stop them. since there are significantly more they are accepted by most. they preach that you too can be a god of a planet one day!! sign me up.

the wierdest thing to me is when you see a black mormon. if i was black i wouldnt want anything to do with that relgion.
Frank.... Do you think UCE believes you may be a mormon in disguise? As a Black man do you have any personal opinion on this comment about Mormons/Blacks?

[SortingItAllOut]

Most evangelicals will tell you that the Mormon church is a cult.

What's makes one church a church and another a cult? I suppose it depends on where you stand.

The foundation of the Mormon church is an interesting one. I'm sure there are plenty of links out there via Google to find their history.


Take care,
Sort:)

[corplinx]

Weren't there some FBI stings in the southwest where young people were basically kidnapped by the LDS? I have a friend who is a cop in the southwest and he related a story about how a local sheriff was even helping in one town. Of course, this could be Snopes material. I have no idea of the authenticity.

[Blue Monk]

Personally I find the Mormons’ beliefs far more bizarre than that of mainstream religions.

I have, however, spent a great deal of time in Mormon churches when I was doing genealogical research. The churches I’ve been in have been no different than that of a Methodist of Baptist church as far as I could tell with only the occasional North American related art visible to suggest anything different.

And, in their defense, the few times religion has come up in my dealings with them, my atheism did not appear to be much of a problem for them. Perhaps they are a little more sensitive to the concept of tolerance.

Of course, my limited dealing with them make me far from an expert in the inner workings of their religion but the ones I have dealt with have all been so nice and normal that I can’t help but suspect that some of their beliefs or rituals that may even seem strange to me might have be blown out of proportion by certain people with their own ax to grind.

[muscleman]

geez, damn it. And the whole time i thought I was talking to adults. Damn it, just realize J3k is a kid, i bet scotth, ossai, and beleth are too..

GEEZ, are there any adult atheists? im starting to believe that even James Randi is a believer of God, look at this children, I mean he cant be as dum as u guys. Maybe he knows he is going to hell but is doing these because he makes money out of it (like many actors and actresses..)

O yeah, mormons is a cult. Nowadays, everyone need to observe and study a certain religion before joining it, make sure it produces truth, not something u just "feel like doing it"..Thats gay...and weak...

[ScottDYelich]

I was voted most likely to be a mormon...
but I am not.

Anyway, it's a religion, yes? cult, religion,
tax shelter, book club... does it really matter?

any group that ignores reality is only fooling itself.

People seem to ... naturally... default to being defensive when attacked. The only silly thing is often the attackers don't have any grounds to stand on. If someone accuses any religion of
being a cult, what does this really mean to the religion/cult as a whole? not a whole hell of a lot.

those who choose to be blind to one thing might as well be blind to everything.

Scott

[ScottDYelich]

muscle --

hit me with your best shot.

Let me ask you: What is it that you want?

Honestly... do you want to prove that God exists? tell us. once we know, perhaps we can address that issue and not play games.

No need to attack or defend -- we're just talking here. Realize that many people have many different perspectives and it isn't important to convert everyone -- we only need to get out what we feel is right... those who will agree will agree, and those who will not are not worth any ill will.

Scott

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by muscleman
geez, damn it. And the whole time i thought I was talking to adults.

Hmmm, that probably says a lot more about you than them.

Originally posted by muscleman
Thats gay...and weak...

How charming.

You know, there's still room in the kiddie pool.

Fool :


Frank.... Do you think UCE believes you may be a mormon in disguise?


It runs much deeper than that.

[J3K]

I'm a smart kid too. Just because I don't believe in god, and happen to be a kid, that doesn't make me dumb. I am very open minded to people who are religious, because there is no proof there is a god, and no proof there isn't. At this time, you take whichever belief you feel is more you. And I am one of the most mature kids you will ever talk too. I found Love and my future wife(call me immature all you want.) But anyway, what was the point of even coming in here, and repling with something to start an arguement? Doesn't show much for your being an "adult." And if this whole time you thought I was an adult, what difference does now finding out I'm 16 do? (Probably going to say "Well now I know why all that you have said has been so stupid".)
And your profile says student(so just assuming that is accurate) then you can't be too much of an adult. Unless you are 35 and returning to college or something.

[Skeptical Greg]

I find it interesting that we can have 33 posts in a thread about Mormonism, and no one brings up Joseph Smith.

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by J3K
I'm a smart kid too. Just because I don't believe in god, and happen to be a kid, that doesn't make me dumb. I am very open minded to people who are religious, because there is no proof there is a god, and no proof there isn't. At this time, you take whichever belief you feel is more you. And I am one of the most mature kids you will ever talk too. I found Love and my future wife(call me immature all you want.) But anyway, what was the point of even coming in here, and repling with something to start an arguement? Doesn't show much for your being an "adult." And if this whole time you thought I was an adult, what difference does now finding out I'm 16 do? (Probably going to say "Well now I know why all that you have said has been so stupid".)
And your profile says student(so just assuming that is accurate) then you can't be too much of an adult. Unless you are 35 and returning to college or something.

I'm with you 100% J3K.

In an open debate, your age is irrelevant, only the validity of your argument matters.

Muscelman's dismissal of your argument due to your tender years is probably a lot easier for him than dealing with them directly.

Perhaps if he had begun debating at an earlier age he would have developed more a sophisiticated style.

Unfortunately, age alone does not always bring wisdom.

[J3K]

Nah. if you want to get truely technical, he is right about one thing, and that is me not showing where things I say have been said. I don't have the time nor know how to quote people. I tell him to go back and read through post that obviously show him where he is wrong, or that he is making useless points, and he just throws all of this off because I want spoon feed him what has been said all in one post.

[Cinepro]

Hello everyone,

While I'm a new member of the forum, apparently I'm the only Mormon :cool: . I've spent the last few years becoming more skeptical, and learning more about "our" history, and trying to reconcile the two. But I thought I'd chime in on the topic at hand.

First, I wouldn't classify Mormons as a "cult". I've actually been reading "Releasing the Bonds" by Steve Hassen (a cult deprogrammer), and most of what I'm reading in this book doesn't seem to apply to the "Mormon Church" of today. (BTW, we prefer be referred to as Latter-day Saints, or LDS). We certainly have strict rules for worthiness, and there are strong social aspects to being a member of the group, but for the most part, I haven't found myself to be engaging in "cult like" behavior. The church is just too big to excercise cult-like control anymore. For the first 70 years (the Joseph Smith-Brigham Young- Polygamy period), I'm sure it was much more cult-like.

Maybe if you could be more specific about aspects of the religion that might be disturbing, it would help me understand what you're worried about.

The "secret underwear" is just a cotton undergarment that has some embroidered symbols that have meaning to church members that have been through one of our Temples. We wear it at all times as a reminder to be good. Some church members ascribe supernatural protection to the wearing of this undergarment (urban legends abound!), but that isn't really their purpose.

and we are the children of jesus Jesus is our spiritual brother, not father. So is Satan, for that matter.

The biggest effect your girlfriend's Mormonism would likely have on you, if she is faithful to the teachings of the Church, would be no sex before marriage, and she wouldn't drink, smoke or do drugs. If any of these things are important to you, then she'll either have to go against her (parent's?) religion, or you'll have to learn some tolerance and self control. Mormonism or not, it might be a good idea to excercise self-control in these areas as a teenager anyway, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

J3K, you mentioned that you might want to marry this girl? Since you imply that her parents are forcing her to go to church (who else?), you'll have to reconcile your athiestic beliefs with your future in-law's strong Mormonism. Try to learn as much as you can about the church so you can discuss the topic with them intelligently. If you can at least show that you understand their beliefs (without believing them yourself), you might be able to get along with them better. And happy in-laws make life much easier in so many different ways. There are lots of good, objective books about LDS history and beliefs. Or they might just go ballistic and make you elope. Good luck.

[specious_reasons]

Originally posted by Cinepro
Hello everyone,

While I'm a new member of the forum, apparently I'm the only Mormon :cool: . I've spent the last few years becoming more skeptical, and learning more about "our" history, and trying to reconcile the two. But I thought I'd chime in on the topic at hand.
(snip)

On another,much older, thread, a few forum members have revealed themselves as Mormon, or non-practicing Mormons. It's probably worth searching for...

[J3K]

Hello Cinepro. That was a nice post you wrote. And about the stuff directed towards me about my girlfriend. Yes I do plan on marring her. But about the smoking and drinking and sex subjects. She use to be a bad girl, drugs and all. Now she does none of that because of me. So, you see, it wasn't the church, but me that got her to change her ways. We do have sex, and sex before marriage is not something I agree with. I believe you should have sex only with people you really care about.
I agree with many of the Mormon's beliefs, as far as how to live your life and such. I disagree in some areas, but most are just common sense things that many people, religous or not, believe in. My girlfriend doesn't believe in god, she is technically atheist like me. We have long ago talked about our beliefs, and talked about whether or not they would effect our relationship or not. The only place they do effect our relationship is her parents, and when I have to sit back and watch my girlfriend hurt because she doesn't want to be going to church, listening to people talk about how you go to hell for this that and whatnot, and being forced to go EVERY DAY. Siminary(spelling?) I believe it's called. And because of how closed off her parents are, when she tried to talk to them about how she doesn't believe the same as the church, they just made her go more. So that's where problems come in. I will try and learn more about the religion for intelligant talk like you mentioned.
Oh yeah, she said that the "secret underwear" was like an undergarment that is worned because of how it is believed one should dress. Like how short shorts can be on girls and stuff. So the undergarment does an underneath cover of how much they believe should be covered.

[DrChinese]

Assuming that the Mormons are not a cult: then they are evidence that the Bible is not fixed. The Bible is a book which is the result of some significant amount of human intervention, and perhaps additional divine inspiration and intervention.

But the Bible has never stopped evolving, even though most Christians think its development ceased nearly two thousand years ago. The fact is, the Bible is a living document and the changes which have occurred during the 20th century are dramatic.

The rise of new churches is a manifestation of this fact. Is a new church a cult first? Before it becomes successful enough to be called a church?

[corplinx]

I have found one thing recently on the latter day saints. Apparently if you try leaving the church they give you hell about it and if mormons make up a large part of your business clients you can count on losing them.

So far being a mormon is "high demand" and also makes it hard to leave. Two signs of a cult.

Oh, and let's not forget they were founded by someone who exhibited all the traits of a cult leader.

[bluess]

I think Frederick Forsyth wrote a book about Joseph Smith and the one woman who divorced him. Can't remember the title or find it on Amazon...

I've a colleague who is Mormon, and who is much more willing to deal with a cultural Hindu then anyone else in my office. And while it's pretty easy to make fun of a religion started by a guy who transcribed two gold plates revealed to him and then removed from him by an angel, I don't see a lot of difference between that and the guy who came traipsing down the mountain with two stone tablets.

I think that a cult is more along the lines of the Heaven's Gate folks - where all sorts of techniques are used to limit a proselyte's contact with outside resources.

[hgc]

While the entire LDS church should not be thought of as a cult (definition particulars: mind-control, charismatic leader, elimination of history, cutting off from non-believers, ...) there are many cultish Mormon subgroups calling for a return to "traditional" ways. Of course the most visible of those lost traditions with Mormonism is polygammy. This was dropped so that Utah could be admitted to the Union as a state (I guess the USA forced God to change his mind on that one). Anyway, that plays in nicely to another common practice and motivation of cult leaders, and that's to bang all the chicks.