Business Astrology

[CFLarsen]

1000 posts, and not a single answer from Karen.

[Mogens Winther]

Karen, I would very much like to see you simply apply and take part in the 1 million dollar challenge.

James did offer Karen a test years ago - and here she actually did give an answer :


"Do not contact me again!! Karen Boesen"


Enjoy : http://www.skeptica.dk/mw/astrologi/randi.htm


/MW

[Rolfe]

Well, Karen's browsing here at the moment, perhaps she's just typing up her acceptance of the Challenge - and the answers to all those questions.

Then again, maybe not.

Rolfe.

[Karen Boesen]

MW: "Enjoy : http://www.skeptica.dk/mw/astrologi/randi.htm "

FYI: as ususal skeptica.dk `s websites about astrology are full of lies, manipulations, twisting of data etc. etc.

ENJOY!

[mroek]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
MW: "Enjoy : http://www.skeptica.dk/mw/astrologi/randi.htm "

FYI: as ususal skeptica.dk `s websites about astrology are full of lies, manipulations, twisting of data etc. etc.

ENJOY! But you, on the other hand, refuse to answer any questions whatsoever. Can you please point me to a reference (of which there has to be numerous, considering the seriousness of the crime) that points to the name of the murderer that works at skeptica.dk?

If you cannot back up this claim, you should not have put it forth in the first place. And again: Danish references (online) will be just fine, as I can read that with no problems.

Regards
-Øyvind

[jackmott]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
MW: "Enjoy : http://www.skeptica.dk/mw/astrologi/randi.htm "

FYI: as ususal skeptica.dk `s websites about astrology are full of lies, manipulations, twisting of data etc. etc.

ENJOY!

No response to my idea Karen?

[Zep]

Karen,

Are you going to respond to my most recent question about your unfounded accusations that Morgens Winther is Joseph Mengele's grandchild and also a Nazi? I'm taking it that your silence means you have no evidence to support it and do not retract from this accusation. I wonder what the laws are in Denmark regarding this sort of nasty accusation...

Are you going to tell Cleopatra exactly how much you charge for you to answer questions here? You made such a huge fuss to tell us all that is what is required to get answers from you, so how about showing Cleopatra your price list when she asks for it. If you don't give her some straight information, it means you never had any answers worth selling in the first place.

Will you inform us of a reference, any reference, to anything anywhere about the "murderer" scientist in the Danish Skeptics? If I don't hear from you immediately then I take it that this is just another totally nasty fairy-tale you have invented.

Really, Karen, this is getting to be the usual thing we can expect from you, isn't it. Do you have the faintest idea how completely silly and unprofessional you sound these days? And I wonder how your fellow astrologers in your own association, and indeed the rest of Denmark, would view this kind of behaviour if they knew of it... No wonder you tell them not to come here!

regards
Zep

PS. dann, here's Karen's words on the Joseph Mengele issue again:For instance the guy above, Mr. Winther, is the grandchild of Josef Mengele. One of the worst warcriminals in Europe during World War 2.But THE FACT is that Josef Mengele - Winthers grandfather - was a creep. Winther is a creep as well. I believe that it runs in the family. At least their methods are the same.

[dann]

I'm well aware of Karen Boesen's words, Zep. But when you ask her for proof, you should take into consideration what is relevant and what isn't. Mogens Winther's (or anybody's) grandparents? Boring! There must be a thousand skeptics with a grandfather guilty of everythng from misdemeanours to atrocities. What are you going to say to Karen Boesen if she is actually able to dig up dirt about somebody's grandfather? 'I stand corrected.'???
That would be absurd because the accusation itself is so stupid, not the lack of proof.
What would you do if she accused somebody of being gay? Or an atheist? Ask her to prove it?!
Unlike this one: "At least their methods are the same."
Now in this case evidence would be interesting!

[Zep]

Originally posted by dann
I'm well aware of Karen Boesen's words, Zep. But when you ask her for proof, you should take into consideration what is relevant and what isn't. Mogens Winther's (or anybody's) grandparents? Boring! There must be a thousand skeptics with a grandfather guilty of everythng from misdemeanors to atrocities. What are you going to say to Karen Boesen if she is actually able to dig up dirt about somebody's grandfather? 'I stand corrected.'???
That would be absurd because the accusation itself is so stupid, not the lack of proof.
What would you do if she accused somebody of being gay? Or an atheist? Ask her to prove it?!
Unlike this one: "At least their methods are the same."
Now in this case evidence would be interesting! I quite agree about the need for relevance, and I also agree that the subject per se is quite irrelevant to Karen's claims, etc. What is REALLY important is that Karen is in the habit of tossing up all sorts of wild and unsupported claims, baseless accusations and personal invective, and refuses to support it or even be challenged on it. It is obvious that all she wants is to be able to vent her spleen at us without fear of reprisal.

The reality which escapes her is that that sort of behaviour doesn't wash on this board, as you know. So, from the beginning of this thread we have been politely trying to examine her claims and facts in exactly the same way that we do for all our debates here. And suddenly Karen realised that she was on a sticky wicket, and so she reverted to just dodging-and-weaving (eg. wanting to be paid to answer), and sidetracking (eg. the Mengele issue). It's quite clear that she is hoping that we will all give up on her, so that she can then claim that she "bested us" with her arguments - like Kent Hovind, it would seem she thinks that whoever has the last word, no matter how crazy that word is, "wins" the argument.

And so a few of us here are quite happy to continue to dog her steps, to reiterate the questions in search of fair answers. Of which there's quite a few still outstanding!

Btw, Morgens did inform us that his grandfather was actually interned in a KZ. And I note that, although Karen has conceded en passant and very indirectly that Mengele really had nothing to do with Morgens' family, she has yet to come right out and say that to us. She has had no hesitation in the past in producing her supporting data... So one would start to think that she is actually incapable of admitting her errors...or perhaps she wants that commentary deliberately left on the record here so she can boast about it to her astrological friends for some reason. Either way, it needs to be definitely resolved, don't you think?

And if she accuses people of being gay, atheist, or even as she has done to me personally, of being stupid, then yes, I do think she needs to be made to put up or retract. It will be a new experience for her!

[MRC_Hans]

I guess I agree with both of you here ;).

1) Yes, it is completely irrelevant who somebody's grandfather was. A mass murderer's grandson (and son, for that matter), can be a great man, and vice versa.

2) Yes it deserves note that KB repeats something that has been denied, without backing it up. It is a clear demonstration of KB's level of honesty.

Moreover, it is very interesting to see this preoccupation with heritage. I thought that according to astrology, people's character was in their horoscope, not in their heritage?

Hans

[Oleron]

Originally posted by dann

I have to admit that I don't quite get this one:
I am not surprised that Karen Boesen accuses somebody of being the grandson of Joseph Mengele, infamous Nazi war criminal.
But what if he were?! Could you blame him for the atrocities of his alleged grandfather? Are we talking original sin?
Karen Boesen's accusation is absurd, no matter what!

Dann,

I agree. I don't give a flying fanny who MW's grandfather is.

What I'm trying to do is demonstrate that Karen seems to fling all these accusations at various people, then run away without backing up her claims.
I notice she has visited the board since my post and still hasn't addressed the issues raised by those here.
She has had her chance. She has lost this debate IMO.
More importantly, she has failed to demonstrate any evidence for business astrology. Indeed I think she has damaged what little credibility it had.

[dann]

Originally posted by Zep
(...) it would seem she thinks that whoever has the last word, no matter how crazy that word is, "wins" the argument.
Well, it's even worse than that. Remember this one?
As said by Simonsen earlier: " your folk ( astrologers etc. ) are woo-woo`s, the sort of people, who the nazists looked at as " minor people": You can complain from now on and until the day you die. Noone will ever listen to you! "
Very nice person this Simonsen. Maybe I should also mention that he calls himself a socialist.
One thing is that she invents a quotation. Another thing is that she, the wife of a self-proclaimed Marxist, tells her American and therefore, in her opinion, anti-socialist audience what I allegedly call myself. Her opportunism is also extreme.
I don't go around calling myself a socialist, but I don't try to hide the fact that I am no friend of capitalism.
In the context, however, I found it irrelevant.

[Mogens Winther]

Dann : Mogens Winther's (or anybody's) grandparents? Boring!

Exactly - as I wrote, it has nothing to do with this discussion.

The problem about heritage in astrology is however not simple, according to Mundane astrology, a nation as such may get a horoscope, which is defined by the birth horoscope of e.g. the constitution, or e.g. the dictator / president.

In case of the United States, the horoscope is July 4 1776,

in case of the Third Reich, the nations horoscope was defined as April 20, 1889. (birthday today).

So to speak, the German Reich became an aries similar to Hitler, Aries means a warrior. (Remember Gibers quote - "All Germans were like Mengele, more or less")...


The same simplification was done by Karen, when she did forecast an electional succes of the Danish Social democrates.

Applying the birthday of that old party, she could see no negative Social democrate transits during the recent election - however the election became the worst disaster to that party since the 1930-s.

http://www.skeptica.dk/mw/astrologi/randi.htm

/MW

[Darat]

Oh Karen's browsing again - can't wait for it....

[Jeff Corey]

I, for one, am waiting with bated breath for more news about you murderous, socialist, ankle-biting Danish skeptics with Nazi ancestry.
"Have you heard?
It's in the stars,
Next July we collide with Mars."

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
"Have you heard?
It's in the stars,
Next July we collide with Mars."

"Well, did you evah?
What a swell party this is"....

[Zep]

What say I make up a digest of outstanding questions that Karen has yet to answer? I'll leave out the ones that are not to do with Karen Boessen or Business Astrology, thus shortening the list a bit. Then we can leave them to be worked through each time we hear from Karen. At least she can't then accuse us of changing the subject.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Zep
What say I make up a digest of outstanding questions that Karen has yet to answer? I'll leave out the ones that are not to do with Karen Boessen or Business Astrology, thus shortening the list a bit. Then we can leave them to be worked through each time we hear from Karen. At least she can't then accuse us of changing the subject.

Be my guest! :)

[Zep]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Be my guest! :) Oh POOP! Someone was reading my posts...

[dann]

For the Danish/Scandinavian readers:

Annett Kofoed, one of the contributors to Karen Boesen's website presseofre.dk ('victims of the press'), is on TV Thursday, April 22.

Den halve sandhed
23:50-00:20 DR 2 (Underholdning)
Arbejdsmarkedet.
Lige siden Claus Hjort Frederiksen begyndte at doktorere på arbejdsløsheden i Danmark er det gået den gale vej med patienten. Den traditionelle kur virker ikke - arbejdsløsheden er steget.
Derfor har Den Halve Sandhed sat en flok alternative behandlere på sagen. Og der er store problemer i ministeriet. Auratyderen ser straks massive konflikter på ministeriets 2. sal. N. Den grønlandske shaman har kontakt med ånderne på Slotsholmen. Og numerologen fortæller hvad Beskæftigelsesministeriet bør hedde, hvis arbejdsløsheden skal ned.
Sendt første gang 16.4.
Genre Underholdning
Varighed 30 minutter

Enjoy!

[Zep]

Care to have a go at the English version for us oppressive monolinguists, Dann? :)

[Mogens Winther]

Annet Kofoed is the Danish numerologist, who refused accepting the JREF claim because those 1 mio Dollar were infected with negative energies. : http://www.randi.org/jr/060603.html

She, and a number of collegues, have apparently visited the Danish Ministry of Work -and - surprise, here they found several bad auras and spirits.

/MW

[Mogens Winther]

p.s.. Annets story starts in http://www.randi.org/jr/053003.html

[Zep]

Why did the Ministry even allow them on the premises? Surely they didn't ASK them to do testing, did they?

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Zep
Why did the Ministry even allow them on the premises? Surely they didn't ASK them to do testing, did they?

The Ministries are not closed off to the public, it's pretty easy to set up a meeting with someone and explain whatever it is you want to say/do. Not that they want to participate in everything, but as a whole, you can access the Ministries pretty easily in DK, especially if you come with a TV crew.

The Ministries didn't ask them to do the testing.

The Labour Market.

Ever since Claus Hjort Frederiksen (the Danish Secretary of Employment) began healing the unemployment in Denmark, it has gone the wrong way with the patient. The traditional cure doesn't work - unemployment is on the rise.

That is why "The Half-Truth" (the name of the program) has put a bunch of alternative healers on the case. And there are big problems in the Ministry. The aura seer spots at once massive conflicts on the 2nd floor of the Ministry. The Greenlandic shaman has contact with the spirits on Slotsholmen (an old, central area in Copenhagen, where the Ministries traditionally are housed). And the numerologer tells us what the name of the Ministry should be, if unemployment must go down.

It's billed as "entertainment"....just like horoscopes in the newspapers, and John Edward on TV...

[Zep]

O...K...

And what might be the general reaction of the Danish public to these sorts of shamaniac revelations?

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Zep
O...K...

And what might be the general reaction of the Danish public to these sorts of shamaniac revelations?

Indifference.

[Gardenfairy]

Originally posted by Zep

"And what might be the general reaction of the Danish public to these sorts of shamaniac revelations?"

The program is satire with a bit of Michael Moore journalism.

[Zep]

Originally posted by Gardenfairy
Originally posted by Zep

"And what might be the general reaction of the Danish public to these sorts of shamaniac revelations?"

The program is satire with a bit of Michael Moore journalism. Welcome, Gardenfairy!

OK, so if the program is satire, who is the one being satirised?

[CFLarsen]

Karen has this to say this morning on a Danish astrology forum about Mogens Winther:

"He tells one lie after another in Randi's forum. Much more than I have probably read. The lies are not challenged."

Certainly not by Karen. She has refused to challenge what she sees as "lies" with evidence that they are "lies".

[Zep]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
She has refused to challenge what she sees as "lies" with evidence that they are "lies". Can't this question be asked of her there as well as here? Has this astrologers' forum got its knickers so tightly in a knot that it won't even allow such obvious questions?

Perhaps a letter to the editor of a Copenhagen daily newspaper instead? That is, a non-Internet medium?

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Zep
Can't this question be asked of her there as well as here? Has this astrologers' forum got its knickers so tightly in a knot that it won't even allow such obvious questions?

Oh, this particular forum allows it. Karen doesn't answer questions there, either. On the other forum, Astrologyforum.dk, no critic is allowed to post. Only those who believe in astrology are allowed to post.

They are shutting themselves off to the world. They want to be free from critical voices.

Originally posted by Zep
Perhaps a letter to the editor of a Copenhagen daily newspaper instead? That is, a non-Internet medium?

Perhaps.

[Karen Boesen]

Zep,

you really are a little naiv guy. I have only read your threads very quickly, so maybe I have missed something.

But for your information ALL the astrological chatrooms have been opened for skeptics for years. No problem.
Not until Claus Flodin Larsen arrived. First of all he claims that American astrologers are threatening his life, after that he starts to terrorise the people in the chatrooms. He got a lot of warnings, which he ignored, and in the end he, and all of the other skeptics, were kicked out. I have nothing to do with that, but I think it was a reasonable decision. After all Claus Flodin Larsen is a psychopath. There is nothing you can do to make such a person behave normal.

Reg. your proposal contacting an editor of a Danish newspaper etc., I would love that. Could be really funny! If you think that we are not able to cope with that, you are REALLY wrong.

For instance Mogens Winther has twice been invited on TV to have a discussion with me. BOTH times he has refused to participate. One can only guess why.
Do you think that the guy is afraid of me? I think he is. What a coward!!

[mroek]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
For instance Mogens Winther has twice been invited on TV to have a discussion with me. BOTH times he has refused to participate. One can only guess why.
Do you think that the guy is afraid of me? I think he is. What a coward!! Karen, when it comes to cowardice I'd say that you're a strong contender for the big prize.

How about answering a couple of questions? I only know you from this thead, and as an outside observer I'd say you have been extremely evasive and you have refused to document your accusations.

Who is this murderer from skeptica.dk you have been telling us about? If you can't answer, or point me to somewhere I can find the answer myself, then you are nothing but a coward yourself.

Put up or shut up!

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
But for your information ALL the astrological chatrooms have been opened for skeptics for years. No problem.

Not true. Mogens Winther had been a thorn deep in the Danish astrologers' sides way before I got there.

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Not until Claus Flodin Larsen arrived. First of all he claims that American astrologers are threatening his life

Not true.

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
after that he starts to terrorise the people in the chatrooms.

Not true. I do asked questions about astrology, which the astrologers had a very hard time answering. E.g. what to do with the newly discovered objects, and if/how to incorporate them in the horoscopes.

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
He got a lot of warnings, which he ignored,

Not true. The rules were changed on-the-fly, whenever a critical question popped up.

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
and in the end he, and all of the other skeptics, were kicked out.

Partly true. Today, only those who believe in astrology are allowed to post on Christian Borup's forum, while I am the only one banned from the chairman of the Danish association of practicing astrologers's forum, simply because I complained that he violated his own rules not to abuse (my) personal information. He then invents a story of me providing false information, and bans me.

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
I have nothing to do with that, but I think it was a reasonable decision. After all Claus Flodin Larsen is a psychopath. There is nothing you can do to make such a person behave normal.

You are not qualified to determine whether people are psychopaths or not. You lack the education.

[Karen Boesen]

The only thing I want to reply to Claus Flodin Larsen is, that all he is saying are lies. Nothing new in that. And for your information Mogens Winhter has never been banned from any astrological chatroom.

Mroek: tell me ýour identity and the reason that you are SO interested in murderes.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
The only thing I want to reply to Claus Flodin Larsen is, that all he is saying are lies. Nothing new in that. And for your information Mogens Winhter has never been banned from any astrological chatroom.

Not true. Mogens Winther cannot post on Christian Borup's astrology forum.

Lie after lie after lie from you. No answers, only lies and insults. You are a fine example of how astrologers work.

[Karen Boesen]

CFL:"Not true. Mogens Winther cannot post on Christian Borup's astrology forum."

True! No skeptic is allowed to post on Borup`s forum NOW!
But that is because of you. The kind and honest skeptics, like for instance Morten Monrad Pedersen, were kicked out too, because the moderators on Borup`s forum did not want to spend their time of findind out, who were moderates, who were people like you, even though they hardly excist, etc. etc.

YOU Claus Flodin Larsen were the reason of that! NOONE ELSE!!!!!!!

[mroek]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Mroek: tell me ýour identity and the reason that you are SO interested in murderes. Your credibility is at stake here. You have told us that within the organization skeptica.dk there is a person that has committed murder. When asked to back up this statement and provide this persons name, you referred to "newspapers". Problem is, most of us don't have access to printed Danish newspapers. I therefore ask you to provide a web reference to this specific case.

I don't know any Danish skeptics, and I don't know how to assess their credibility, nor do I know how to assess your credibility. My only sources are this thread, which is highly subjective. Providing documentation is the only way to go, and so far you have failed miserably.

My name is Øyvind, BTW. I live in Norway.

[Darat]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
The only thing I want to reply to Claus Flodin Larsen is, that all he is saying are lies. Nothing new in that. And for your information Mogens Winhter has never been banned from any astrological chatroom.

Mroek: tell me ýour identity and the reason that you are SO interested in murderes.

But he must have been! You just said "...snip... and all of the other skeptics, were kicked out. ...snip..." :)

But now he wasn't banned.

(Edited to add)

And now I've just seen that you said he is banned. So in the course of three posts it went, he was banned, he wasn't banned back to he was banned! :D

Dear me, even on this tiny almost insignificant point you can't be consistent. LOL

[TheBoyPaj]

I think this is great. I mean, quite a lot of curious people (as in interested, not odd!) visit here to see what all the fuss is about. I'm quite confident they will read Karen's posts and come to the same conclusion as the rest of us!

[Cleopatra]

Hello Ms. Boesen.

How much money do you want in order that you reply to our questions?

[Karen Boesen]

Excuse me for asking this Darat: " But are you on drugs?"

Your mails seem a " bit " weird.

[Darat]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Excuse me for asking this Darat: " But are you on drugs?"

Your mails seem a " bit " weird.

No.

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Hello Ms. Boesen.

How much money do you want in order that you reply to our questions? Ms. Boesen,

Given the possible problems with distance, currency exchange, etc., might I ask, do you accept PayPal?

M

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
True! No skeptic is allowed to post on Borup`s forum NOW!

So, you admit that you lied when you said:

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Mogens Winhter has never been banned from any astrological chatroom.

Thank you for admitting that.

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
But that is because of you. The kind and honest skeptics, like for instance Morten Monrad Pedersen, were kicked out too, because the moderators on Borup`s forum did not want to spend their time of findind out, who were moderates, who were people like you, even though they hardly excist, etc. etc.

YOU Claus Flodin Larsen were the reason of that! NOONE ELSE!!!!!!!

Oh, I don't doubt that I might have been a factor in that decision. I did grill the astrologers pretty hard. Actually, it wasn't that hard....

However, I find it interesting that the astrologers prefer to shut those out they don't agree with as a group, instead of taking the time to find out who they thought were "friendly" enough.

It shows that they fear criticism more than open debate. My experience tells me they have every reason to fear criticism.

Originally posted by Darat
Dear me, even on this tiny almost insignificant point you can't be consistent. LOL

Inconsistency is the hallmark of a liar.

Originally posted by Mercutio
Given the possible problems with distance, currency exchange, etc., might I ask, do you accept PayPal?

It's OK, I can pay Karen, and you can pay me at TAM3.

[Karen Boesen]

Oh my dear CFL, you are manipulating again and again and again.

No, Mogens Winther was not kicked out nor was any other skeptic by name. I believe that you send about hundreds of mails - terrorism - to the people there every day. Just like a sick person acts. That forum is for people, who are interested in astrology, not for a person like you, who belongs in a pscychiatric hospital. You never understood that.

To the Norweigian skeptic. Maybe you yourself should stay out.
Who has asked you to comment on anything at all? Noone as far as I can see. Did you smell a sensation? Oh my god, that is really exciting isn`t it?

[Darat]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Oh my dear CFL, you are manipulating again and again and again.

No, Mogens Winther was not kicked out nor was any other skeptic by name. I believe that you send about hundreds of mails - terrorism - to the people there every day. Just like a sick person acts. That forum is for people, who are interested in astrology, not for a person like you, who belongs in a pscychiatric hospital. You never understood that.

To the Norweigian skeptic. Maybe you yourself should stay out.
Who has asked you to comment on anything at all? Noone as far as I can see. Did you smell a sensation? Oh my god, that is really exciting isn`t it?

It's actually very educational.

(Edited to add.)

If Claus had just wandered in and accused you of the behaviour you’ve shown here no one would have believed it for a second (look at the start of the thread when you were treated by many with politeness).

However you, by your posts have supplied evidence to support all of Claus’s claims about you.

[mroek]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
To the Norweigian skeptic. Maybe you yourself should stay out.
Who has asked you to comment on anything at all? Noone as far as I can see. Did you smell a sensation? Oh my god, that is really exciting isn`t it? This is an open discussion, anyone can participate. I take it that you are unwilling to back up any of your claims, then? One can only speculate as to why that is...

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
No, Mogens Winther was not kicked out nor was any other skeptic by name.

Yes, he was, as well as every other skeptic. All skeptics are banned from Borup's forum.

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
I believe that you send about hundreds of mails - terrorism - to the people there every day.

Hardly "about hundreds". And I hope you mean "posts" and not "mails". Those are not the same thing.

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Just like a sick person acts. That forum is for people, who are interested in astrology, not for a person like you, who belongs in a pscychiatric hospital. You never understood that.

But I am interested in astrology. I don't believe in it, but I am interested.

[jackmott]

Karen do you offer a money back gaurantee if your predictions are wrong?

[gmanontario]

Originally posted by jackmott
Karen do you offer a money back gaurantee if your predictions are wrong?

Well let's see an astrologer get something right first...:D

Never happen of course...

editted fir speling

[Suezoled]

http://www.lyricscafe.com/y/yankovic_al/yourhoroscopefortoday.html

Ah, REAL horoscopes... courtesy of Weird Al Yankovich

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by jackmott
Karen do you offer a money back gaurantee if your predictions are wrong?


Just to clairify, I won't require that. I just want to know how much does she want to in order she spends some time in replying to our questions just because she said that she must be hired in order to reply to questions.

[Karen Boesen]

Norweigian guy: "I take it that you are unwilling to back up any of your claims, then? One can only speculate as to why that is... "

Yes please do that! Together with the rest of the shepherds up there. Maybe you could also learn to speak a proper language over time.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Norweigian guy: "I take it that you are unwilling to back up any of your claims, then? One can only speculate as to why that is... "

Yes please do that! Together with the rest of the shepherds up there. Maybe you could also learn to speak a proper language over time.

Oh please Ms Boesen watch your mouth because we don't need much to start calling you " The Danish Maenad in menopause".

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Oh please Ms Boesen watch your mouth because we don't need much to start calling you " The Danish Maenad in menopause".

Karen was born on November 26th, 1947.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by CFLarsen


Karen was born on November 26th, 1947. I stand corrected. " A post-menopause Danish Maenad".

[Darat]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
I stand corrected. " A post-menopause Danish Maenad".

Lady?!

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Darat


Lady?! Argh you posted before I edited it.This is a proof that I am polite by nature it's the society that feeds those crocs :)

[mroek]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Norweigian guy: "I take it that you are unwilling to back up any of your claims, then? One can only speculate as to why that is... "

Yes please do that! Together with the rest of the shepherds up there. Maybe you could also learn to speak a proper language over time. Karen,
those insults are not up to your regular standards, but I guess that means you're not in an angry mood right now. Maybe this means you would be so kind as to tell me the name of this murderer in skeptica.dk. I'm still curious about that one.

[Zep]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Zep,

you really are a little naiv guy. I have only read your threads very quickly, so maybe I have missed something.My, what an extraordinarily big ego you have! I guess it's just lucky you have such a big head to put it in - lots of spare space there.

And what a pity you couldn't be bothered to make a greater effort to read posts here. I, and many other people, go to extraordinary lengths to try read and understand your posts, and to make some sense of them (which takes work - they are mostly pointless rants). So the very least you could do is make an effort to at least read our posts.

So you think maybe you have missed something? I'll let you answer that question yourself. (Hint: YES YOU HAVE)

[mroek]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
you really are a little naiv guy. I have only read your threads very quickly, so maybe I have missed something.Originally posted by Zep
So you think maybe you have missed something? I'll let you answer that question yourself. (Hint: YES YOU HAVE)
Zep, there is nothing more you can do. Karen said you were naive, and that means it must be true. After all, she sees naivety in abundance in her work every day. Assuming she has customers, that is....:D

[dann]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Zep,
you really are a little naiv guy.
Little (in Danish lille) is her favourite pejorative. We haven't yet been able to figure out why. I don't think she's much taller than James Randi.

[Mogens Winther]

As you may remember from our discussion above, Karen has repeatedly claimed she has studied for degrees in a.o. psychology :


”Karen Boesen subsequently studied for degrees in psychology and political science at the University of Copenhagen”
http://www.erhvervsastrologi.dk/english/konferencer/indhold.htm and http://www.erhvervsastrologi.dk/english/profil/indhold.htm


Her signature has even been


”exam. art. statskundskab/psykologi”.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010222075455/www.erhvervsastrologi.dk/analyser/larsen.htm
(Exam art was possible years ago and means the smallest degree possible in psychology).


This degree was claimed achieved at Copenhagen University (KU) :

”According to my papers from the University of Copenhagen”
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=35498&perpage=40&pagenumber=15

Karens reactions to our doubt were several – :

”Belive me my dear friend. That title will be used on my papers until the day I die. In fact I have all the proofs, which I need for using it. OK?”
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=35498&perpage=40&pagenumber=15


However – Copenhagen University (KU) has confirmed that KB does NOT have the claimed Exam Art Psychology titel.

Karens first explanation to that was that she did quit Copenhagen University, and then did continue at another University, called RUC. Danish source : http://www.astrologforeningen.dk/discus/messages/61/1677.html?mandagd05april20040132#POST22214



But now the RUC university has written that they have NEVER issued that title ”Exam Art Psychology” to anyone.


And surprise again ! - now KB has revised her signature within the old documents from :


København, den 21. april 1998
Karen Boesen
exam. art. statskundskab/psykologi.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010222075455/www.erhvervsastrologi.dk/analyser/larsen.htm


To :


København, den 21. april 1998

Karen Boesen har i 5½ år studeret statskundskab & psykologi på KU & RUC. Exam. Art.. http://www.erhvervsastrologi.dk/erhvervsastrologi/Nytdesign/Larsen%20Rejser.htm



- which means :


Karen Boesen has in 5 ½ years studied political science and psykology on KU and RUC. Exam Art.




Sure, Karen has studied, yes, and many many years, sure, but no indication of if she actually did graduate to the previously claimed degree in psychology.


So, Karen, let us now get an honest reply - do you still claim having an exam art degree in psychology ?


/MW

[CFLarsen]

I checked with my backups of Karen's sites, and can verify Mogens Winther's findings:

From the same page (http://www.erhvervsastrologi.dk\erhvervsastrologi\Nytdesi gn\Larsen Rejser.htm)

On March 11th, 2004, 08:32:28, it looked like this:
http://www.skepticreport.com/resources/kb-date01.jpg


On April 22nd, 2004, 22:25:00, it looked like this:
http://www.skepticreport.com/resources/kb-date02.jpg

It seems that Karen has finally 'fessed up: She does not have the exam. She now admits that she never did.

Gee, she must have been talking to that lawyer after all. Or realized that she couldn't pull off the scam anymore...

Mind you, by not changing the date of the document, she effectively is lying once again: She tries to make it look as if the document was updated on April 21st, 1998. It wasn't.

Karen, you are a liar. You are a fraud.

[Zep]

Well, I'm going to leave Karen's qualifications situation be - it looks to have been adequately covered already! :) Nor will I mention my own Bachelor of Science from a world-class university...conferred on me because I was "little" and "naive" and "stupid", of course.

Meanwhile, this weekend I will be making up a digest of outstanding questions that Karen has yet to address. Stand by...

Oh, and I'm sure Karen's lawyers would be pleased to see the public invective she has been spraying around here. Karen, have you seen what is happening to Winston Wu just now? Take note.

More soon!
zep

[Karen Boesen]

Laresen: "Karen, you are a liar. You are a fraud."

Franz Michaelis once made a long list of all the " words " you had been addressing to ALL people on the Internet, since you showed up. ALL of them have been called liers, frauds etc. etc. by you. As mentioned earlier you are a sick person.

By the way, why are you SO afraid by now? Any special reason for that??
I think there are.


__________________

[Karen Boesen]

Maybe, I should mention that Franz Michaelis is NOT an astrologer, he has never been an astrologer either.
He is a scientist. Language.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Franz Michaelis once made a long list of all the " words " you had been addressing to ALL people on the Internet, since you showed up. ALL of them have been called liers, frauds etc. etc. by you.

I think your limited English skills betray you here. What you have written means that I have called the many many millions who are connected to the Internet liars, frauds, etc. I'm sure you don't mean that.

I think I once posted a list of what astrologers have called me. You had nothing to say about that, if I recall correctly.

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
As mentioned earlier you are a sick person.

Yes, well, you are hardly qualified to diagnose people, Karen. Your academic fraud has been revealed, and by changing the way you sign documents, you have admitted to the fraud.

Did your lawyer advice you to, or did you realize yourself that the scam couldn't go on anymore?

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
By the way, why are you SO afraid by now? Any special reason for that??
I think there are.

I have to disappoint you again: I am not afraid. My life isn't ruled by fear, ignorance or superstition. I understand the reasons behind your wish for people to live like that - they are easier to control. Which is, I suspect, the reason why you spew such bile, here, and wherever you go.

You simply cannot abide the thought that there are people beyond your control.

[Karen Boesen]

Larsen: " have to disappoint you again: I am not afraid. My life isn't ruled by fear, ignorance or superstition. I understand the reasons behind your wish for people to live like that ...."

Another lie!! YOUR life is ruled by fear. You are living in cognito here in Denmark, because you claim - no evidence at all - that astrologers have treatened your life. You supply people with false information about your address etc. etc, because you are afraid that someone shall "visit" you. :):)
Once you wrote to an astrologer: "Don`t pay me a visit Leif!"

The poor guy got completely confused and answered: " How should I pay you a visit if I don`t know, where you live?"

So, yes, you are a very scarred person. Can you name those astrologers, who has treatened to kill you? Or whatever they have said.
Let us get some evidence.

[Darat]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
...snip...


Let us get some evidence.

Thank goodness you have come to realise we need to get evidence!

So why don’t we start with some of the evidence we are waiting for from you? Such as:

Evidence of this Danish murderer and sceptic you keep mentioning.
Evidence for your claim of Winther's grand parentage.

Or let me guess you believe you don’t need to provide evidence, only others do.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Another lie!! YOUR life is ruled by fear. You are living in cognito here in Denmark, because you claim - no evidence at all - that astrologers have treatened your life. You supply people with false information about your address etc. etc, because you are afraid that someone shall "visit" you. :):)

I do not live "incognito", I just don't generally tell people where I live. Pierre-Francois Bitsch, the chairman of the Danish Astrologers' Association, insisted that I provided my (then) address, when I signed up for his messageboard. He then broke the rules of never abusing the personal information.

I have not said that astrologers have threatened my life, but I have received threats from other believers in the paranormal, who did not appreciate that I criticized them.

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Once you wrote to an astrologer: "Don`t pay me a visit Leif!"

The poor guy got completely confused and answered: " How should I pay you a visit if I don`t know, where you live?"

Perhaps you can explain why Leif Mikkelsen was so interested in where I lived? What's with the obsession among astrologers to find out where their critics live?

I had several times asked him - and others - to respect my privacy. This was not respected. My wish to retain my privacy is also strengthened by the things astrologers (among others) have said to me. You, e.g. have threatened with physical violence, if you saw me.

My life is not ruled by fear. But I am cautious, and keep an eye out for incidents where it seems as if people want to seek me out personally. You, Leif and anyone else would do well to remember that.

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
So, yes, you are a very scarred person.

Not that many, actually.

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Can you name those astrologers, who has treatened to kill you? Or whatever they have said. Let us get some evidence.

Again, I have not said that astrologers have threatened to kill me. Pam Blizzard, owner of a message board about the psychic John Edward, has threatened to show up at my doorstep with her gun-totin' Marine husband. There have been others, with various threats.

It's interesting to note, that I have explained this to you before. Yet, you prefer to ignore that, and repeat your lies.

[Karen Boesen]

Larsen: " Perhaps you can explain why Leif Mikkelsen was so interested in where I lived? What's with the obsession among astrologers to find out where their critics live?"

Obsession!! What are you talking about. Before you started to hunt astrologers, who are all in the book, so are all the skeptics, this question has never been discussed.
So when you are talking about their critics, you are lying againg.

To the claim that I have treatened you, if I meet you, our are lying again too.

You told me that - after your fight in the KB-hallen, that I could expect such a visit too. Then I told you, that if you EVER showed up, when I was lecturing, OR if you interferred with my work, I should give you a "lot of beating"
Don`t forget that!!!!

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Obsession!! What are you talking about. Before you started to hunt astrologers, who are all in the book, so are all the skeptics, this question has never been discussed. So when you are talking about their critics, you are lying againg.

So, it is merely an obsession with where I live, eh? Why is that, Karen? Why is it so interesting to know where I live?

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
To the claim that I have treatened you, if I meet you, our are lying again too.

You told me that - after your fight in the KB-hallen, that I could expect such a visit too. Then I told you, that if you EVER showed up, when I was lecturing, OR if you interferred with my work, I should give you a "lot of beating"
Don`t forget that!!!!

I have never said anything about showing up for a "fight". I told you that you would never know when/if a skeptic - not just me, but anyone critical of astrology - would show up, to do just that: criticize astrology. You then invented a lie about police protection and blah, blah, blah.

You are the one living in fear, Karen. You fear an open debate, you threaten your critics with physical violence, and you will not refrain from inventing lies about them.

"Interference" can mean a lot. You seem to have expanded the possible circumstances, where you would give me a "lot of beating", as you so eloquently put it. Now, it isn't merely where you lecture. Now, it can be anytime, anywhere, where you deem that I "interfer" with your "work". Since you have expressed your concern with skeptics ruining the work of astrologers, I can see that I have every reason to be cautious.

[Mogens Winther]

And imagine, Karens collegue, ISBA astrologer and astrodetective Karl AAGe Jensen has declared the dawning of the Age of the Aquarius did start already back in 1999 :



"When the Moon is in the Seventh House, and Jupiter aligns with Mars ...

Then peace shall guide the planets, and love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius ...."



So how come, that these peaceful newage people behave so hysterical, so violent ?



/MW

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Mogens Winther
So how come, that these peaceful newage people behave so hysterical, so violent ?

That's a very good question.

In my experience, the very same people who expand on this Great New Knowledge (usually based on old nursery tales and superstitions) that has befallen the Chosen Few, and that will bring Peace, Joy and Harmony to Mankind, are the very same people who will crack at the slightest inquiry into their beliefs.

They claim to have strong beliefs, yet fold like a wet piece of paper if they are met with a single question that goes straight to the heart of their beliefs.

I am sure that psychologists will be able to explain this better. Contrary to Karen Boesen, I have no wish to perpetrate an academic hoax by claiming to have a degree in psychology.

[dann]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
So, yes, you are a very scarred person. Can you name those astrologers, who has treatened to kill you? Or whatever they have said.
Let us get some evidence.

Well, you can find some examples of Karen Boesen threatening CFLarsen - not to kill him, but still - if you go back to February 18 on this thread about business astrology:
dann 02-18-2004 12:52 PM
CFLarsen 02-18-2004 01:05 PM
Jaymz 02-18-2004 01:18 PM

PS Claus, at our next meeting in Skeptica you'll show us all your scars, won't you?

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
You are living in cognito here in Denmark...
Is that Cognito, a small hamlet(?) in West Jutland? Or is that inCognito, ergo sum?

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by dann
Well, you can find some examples of Karen Boesen threatening CFLarsen - not to kill him, but still - if you go back to February 18 on this thread about business astrology:
dann 02-18-2004 12:52 PM
CFLarsen 02-18-2004 01:05 PM
Jaymz 02-18-2004 01:18 PM

Evidence. Karen should try how it works.

Originally posted by dann
PS Claus, at our next meeting in Skeptica you'll show us all your scars, won't you?

(blush)....nope, not ALL!

[dann]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

Is that Cognito, a small hamlet(?) in West Jutland? Or is that inCognito, ergo sum?
No reason to make fun of anybody. That is the way you spell it in Cockney, too!

[Zep]

Bump!

Things that go bump in the solar system...

[dann]

Originally posted by Zep
(...)Meanwhile, this weekend I will be making up a digest of outstanding questions that Karen has yet to address. Stand by...
(...)More soon!
zep
We're looking forward to the list, Zep. I'm sure that Karen Boesen is, too!

[George]

Shush! Thought I'd bung this here out of the way. Hate to spoil a good wind-up. http://www.hpathy.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=2&TopicID=1344&PagePosition=1
Is KP an exellent Blaggard tormenting these muppets?

[Zep]

Originally posted by dann

We're looking forward to the list, Zep. I'm sure that Karen Boesen is, too! Heh! Alas, a crisis at work means I have had to put this plus a number of other tasks aside for a bit. But it hasn't been forgotten.

[Zep]

OK, list of outstanding KB questions planned to be done this weekend. Thor willing and the creeks don't rise...

[MRC_Hans]

Shouldn't be too difficult: Just list all questions asked here. No need to check if they were answered ;).

Hans

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by George
Shush! Thought I'd bung this here out of the way. Hate to spoil a good wind-up. http://www.hpathy.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=2&TopicID=1344&PagePosition=1
Is KP an exellent Blaggard tormenting these muppets? Do you think it's a wind-up? It can be hard to tell but it seems too elaborate. And Snoopy (why always the big letters?) says s/he has sent KP a remedy - personal contact? If this is a windup, like, total respect, man.

Rolfe.

[Zep]

No homeopathy here, please, folks. This one's for business astrology and Karen Boessen.

[Rolfe]

OK.

Rolfe.

[qII]

Originally posted by CFLarsen





astrologers have threatened to kill me. Pam Blizzard, owner of a message board about the psychic John Edward, has threatened to show up at my doorstep with her gun-totin' Marine husband. There have been others, with various threats.

------------------------------------------:)

i do agree w/kb that you belong in a psychiatric hospital.

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by olaf
------------------------------------------:)

i do agree w/kb that you belong in a psychiatric hospital. ...and how do your psychiatric credentials stack up to hers?

I used to work at a mental hospital...it very much bothers me when people ignorantly use the plight of these patients, about whom I very much care, as an insult--and an unfounded insult at that. It is rude, it is ignorant, it is quite simply uncalled for.

Fortunately, in this forum we have people who are able to see such talk for what it is.

[Virgil]

Originally posted by Mercutio
...and how do your psychiatric credentials stack up to hers?

I used to work at a mental hospital...it very much bothers me when people ignorantly use the plight of these patients, about whom I very much care, as an insult--and an unfounded insult at that. It is rude, it is ignorant, it is quite simply uncalled for.

Fortunately, in this forum we have people who are able to see such talk for what it is.


Mental illness is not a laughing matter. It is a complex disease. you don't laugh at people with diabetes do you?



Virgil

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Virgil



Mental illness is not a laughing matter. It is a complex disease. you don't laugh at people with diabetes do you?



Virgil

Such ilk who keep each other company, as Xanta does with Karen Boesen, are prone to laugh at anyone, it seems.

[dann]

Latest news!
Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Af Karen Boesen (kb) indsendt søndag, d. 23. maj, 2004 - 22:43:
(...)
Der er utrolig mange idioter, der kalder sig astrologer, folk, der hverken kan læse eller skrive. For mange år siden, begyndte jeg at undervise i astrologi, men holdt op efter et års tid. De mennesker, der føler sig "tiltrukket" af dette fag, er símpelthen for ubegavede.
(...)
Som bekendt, er jeg forlængs gået udenlandsk, i håb om at finde nogle gode kolleger. Det er også lykkedes. Især i USA, hvor man er langt mere slagkraftig end herhjemme.
/Karen

In my translation:

There are incredibly many idiots who call themselves astrologers, people who can neither read nor write. Many years ago I started teaching astrology, but I stopped after about a year. The people who feel "attracted" to this profession are simply too stupid.
(…)
As you know, ages ago I went abroad in the hope of finding some good colleagues. And I succeeded. In particular in the USA, where people are much more effective than in this country.

[Powa]

Originally posted by dann
There are incredibly many idiots who call themselves astrologers, people who can neither read nor write.

...snip...

The people who feel "attracted" to this profession are simply too stupid.
I've never thought I'd see the day I actually agreed with Karen on something. :D

[CFLarsen]

dann,

You got to tell the whole story..! :)

[MRC_Hans]

Since KB is accusing pepple of being illiterate, it is interesting to proof-read her entry:

Af Karen Boesen (kb) indsendt søndag, d. 23. maj, 2004 - 22:43:
(...)
Der er utrolig mange idioter, der kalder sig astrologer, folk, der hverken kan læse eller skrive. For mange år siden, begyndte jeg at undervise i astrologi, men holdt op efter et års tid. De mennesker, der føler sig "tiltrukket" af dette fag, er símpelthen for ubegavede.
(...)
Som bekendt, er jeg forlængsmissing t gået udenlandsk, i håb om at finde nogle gode kolleger. Det er også lykkedes. Især i USA, hvor man er langt mere slagkraftigmissing e end herhjemme.
/Karen 5 errors in this small piece of test. And, as we know, her literacy in English is even worse :rolleyes:.

Hans

[dann]

Six, actually. You forgot the comma after "udenlands(k)", Hans.
However, I don't find these mistakes very interesting. They only become funny if the context makes them so:

Franz Michaelis: ”Jeg ved ikke, hvem der har skrevet denne famøse mail, men det er ikke Karen. Stilen peger på en, der ikke er for god til dansk, måske er født i udlandet og/eller er mere matematisk end sprogligt begavet.”

Karen Boesen: "Os, der har været i disse fora en del år, kender det primitive dansk, der bliver skrevet, samt de evindelige citater, der sandsynligvis bliver anvendt så hyppigt, fordi vedkommende ikke er i stand til at formulere sig på dansk."

By the way, isn't it traces of nuts?!

[Karen Boesen]

Det var ret afslørende, at ingen af d`herrer er i stand til at tælle.

Tak for det!

[dann]

"It was quite revealing that none of the gentlemen are able to count.
Thank you very much!"

I don't know ....
I guess that Karen didn't notice Hans' red commas.

[Karen Boesen]

Man plejer da ellers at kunne lære en gorilla som dig at tælle.
Hvad er gået galt?

[dann]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Karen Boesen: "It is usually possible to teach a gorilla like you how to count.
What went wrong?"
You usually write hairy gorilla, Karen Boesen.
What went wrong?

[dann]

Don't get disappointed, Karen Boesen. This thread is not about me!
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40493

[Karen Boesen]

I plejer at tabe hårene, når I bliver ældre. Du ved, sådan med bare pletter hist og her. Sjældent noget kønt syn. Hvis det ellers kan blive værre.

[dann]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
"You guys usually lose your hair when you grow older. You know, bald spots here and there. Rarely a pretty sight. If it can possibly get any worse."
I don't know if she is talking about skeptics, men in general, or gorillas. I don't have any more time to translate other pearls from Karen Boesen's hand today, so I hope that some of the other Danes can take over from here!

[Karen Boesen]

Nå, men så fortsætter vi blot en anden dag. Hvorfor er du så ikke pillet af for længst?

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Well, but then we'll just continue some other day. Then how come you haven't buggered off long ago? Wheee! Karen is BAAAACK! Dazzling us with her witty remarks and impregnable argumentation.

... Here's one character who has dug herself a deeper hole than Roger Coghill :rolleyes:.

*yawn*

Hans

[Powa]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
... Here's one character who has dug herself a deeper hole than Roger Coghill :rolleyes:.
Well, if she digs any deeper, she'll soon be posting from China.

[Thomas]

Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Nå, men så fortsætter vi blot en anden dag. Hvorfor er du så ikke pillet af for længst?
This is an english forum Karen, so if you really want to debate on insult level, you should atleast do it in the language everybody understands here. Thank you.

[dann]

This one is so short and to the point, as usual, that I'll take it now:
Originally posted by Karen Boesen
Well, but then we'll continue some other day. So why didn't you scram a long time ago?

[Karen Boesen]

Det var skam ikke nødvendigt. Det var oversat af individet, der ikke kan tælle.

DU kan måske ikke læse?

[dann]

They just keep coming, but they aren't getting any better ...
Originally posted by Karen Boesen
That was not at all necessary. It was translated by the individual who cannot count.
Maybe YOU cannot read?

[CFLarsen]

Perhaps Karen is running out of steam?

[MRC_Hans]

Is it steam? I thought it was bile.

Hans

[Zep]

Please.

Don't tell me I have to go back and start tallying the outstanding questions list for Karen...

Did you go see the wedding, Karen? I thought it was a lovely ceremony, and I especially liked the views of Copenhagen - such a historic old city.

[dann]

Originally posted by Zep
Please.
Don't tell me I have to go back and start tallying the outstanding questions list for Karen...
Promises, promises ...

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Zep
Please.

Don't tell me I have to go back and start tallying the outstanding questions list for Karen...

Lists are good. Make the list, Zep.

[dann]

Today's self-contradiction:

I think you ought to see this one from a Danish discussion board for astrologers:

"Onsdag den 02. juni 2004 - 06:44
Følgetonen Eskild Rasmussen/Karen Boesen.
Min rådgiver har nu overdraget sagen til politiet. Personligt troede jeg faktisk, at den var for lille/ubetydelig til, at man her ville bruge tid på den. Men det var den altså ikke umiddelbart.
Politiet råder jo også over flere ressourcer, end vi andre. Det bliver spændende at se, hvad resultatet bliver.
/Karen Boesen"
http://www.astrologyforum.dk/log/discus/html/messages/1412/1041.html?1086151467

And this one eight hours later from another discussion board:

"Af Karen Boesen (kb) indsendt onsdag, d. 02. juni, 2004 - 15:06:
(...)
Jeg har aldrig kontaktet politiet, jeg har heller ingen intentioner om at gøre det fremover."
http://www.astrologforeningen.dk/discus/index.html

In my translation:

“My adviser has now handed over the case to the police. Personally I actually thought that it was too small/insignificant for them to spend any time on. But it turned out not to be so.
The police do have more resources than the rest of us. It will be exciting to see the outcome.”
&
“I never contacted the police, nor do I have any intentions of doing so in future.”

[dann]

We appear to have put a stop to Karen Boesen's slander of skeptics.
(For readers of Scandinavian languages: http://www.astrologforeningen.dk/discus/messages/1088/1485.html?1086764314)

Monday, May 31, at the bulletin board of the Union of Danish Astrologers I posted a request that anybody who had knowledge
1) of me expressing any opinion remotely similar to the one attributed to me by Karen Boesen in a false (!) quotation, or
2) of skeptics beating up astrologers or other believers in the paranormal, or threatening to do so,
as claimed by Karen Boesen here and elsewhere

"Karen Boesen
Business Astrologer
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 230
(...)
As said by Simonsen earlier: " your folk ( astrologers etc. ) are woo-woo`s, the sort of people, who the nazists looked at as " minor people": You can complain from now on and until the day you die. Noone will ever listen to you! "
(…)
__________________
Karen Boesen
02-18-2004 07:54 PM"

and

Karen Boesen
Business Astrologer
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 235
(...)
Claus Larsen, who is James Randi's assistant at congresses etc., has become famous/infamous in Denmark as he has now progressed to using physical violence against so-called "alternative" thinkers.
An extract from a Danish newspaper follows:

"FIGHT .....
The last 10 participants then experienced that Kurt Bertelsen quick as a flash snatched the little taperecorder from a critical member of the audience and gave it to Andre´ H. Corell. The critical participant then flew up and overpowered Andre´ H. Corell, aided and abetted by yet another person who held him down. After a short battle the two critical participants left with the taperecorder.. The remaining participants gaped in disbelief.......... "
korsholm@kristeligt-dagblad.dk

The two "critical" participants were respectively Dan Simonsen (Randi's translator) and Claus Larsen, both members of the Danish Sceptic Organisation
(...)
__________________
Karen Boesen
02-13-2004 08:48 PM


that they step forward in support of Karen Boesen's allegations.

I waited for more than a week. Since nobody claimed to have heard or seen me express opinions of that kind, nor to have experienced or seen Claus Larsen, me or any other skeptic beat up superstitious people or threaten to do so, on Tuesday, June 6, I concluded that:

"IN BOTH CASES KAREN BOESEN’S ALLEGATIONS TURNED OUT TO BE SHEER LIES AND FABRICATIONS. THERE IS EVERY REASON TO DISTRUST WHAT THIS WOMAN WRITES HERE AT THE READ THREAD (the name of the bulletin board of the Union of Danish Astrologers) OR ELSEWHERE. THE THINGS THAT SHE REFERS TO AS FACTS – OR EVEN ‘DOCUMENTS’ AS FACTS IN THE FORM OF OSTENSIBLE QUOTATIONS – MAY ON CLOSER EXAMINATION TURN OUT TO BE INVENTED BY HERSELF. THIS MEANS THAT YOU CANNOT HAVE CONFIDENCE IN KAREN BOESEN’S ALLEGATIONS!"

We have heard nothing from Karen Boesen since then, nor has anybody else supported her allegations.

[dann]

Ah, well, but we have heard news of Karen Boesen - and in English, for those of you interested in attending an international seminar on business astrology:
http://www.astrologforeningen.dk/discus/messages/85/653.html?
(Go to the bottom of the thread: Af Claus Houlberg (ch) indsendt onsdag, d. 23. juni, 2004 - 12:33 - there's even a photo of the culprit!)

[Anders W. Bonde]

"Why, exactly, is it that business astrologers are not jailed for fraud?" comes to mind...

[dann]

She's back!!!

"JREF Forums > JREF Topics > Latest Commentary Issues

(Moderated by: Darat, Diezel, kittynh, Linda, LuxFerum, Mercutio, MoeFaux, Patricio Elicer, Paul C. Anagnostopoulos, Phil, Raja, tim, Upchurch)
(Users Browsing this Forum: Karen Boesen, boeingJr, dann)"

[CFLarsen]

Perhaps Karen Boesen could explain the latest development on the Danish "Kommunikationsforum.dk"?

[BillHoyt]

Oooo, I like this quote:

"[M]any are beginning to consider the worldwide sceptic movement on a par with Hells Angels."

I can't think of a better bumper sticker for my hog. But I don't like to put bumper stickers on my hog.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by BillHoyt
"[M]any are beginning to consider the worldwide sceptic movement on a par with Hells Angels."

Of course, just another unsubstantiated claim from Karen. She does have a hard time sticking to the truth...

[sonofthor]

Originally posted by BillHoyt
Oooo, I like this quote:

"[M]any are beginning to consider the worldwide sceptic movement on a par with Hells Angels."

I can't think of a better bumper sticker for my hog. But I don't like to put bumper stickers on my hog.

Oh, brother....:o

This is like the Creationist saying, "Most sciencetist are skeptical of evolution".




Inspector Jacques Clouseau, "I will read you my opinion and tell you yours.."

[CFLarsen]

(whistles)

[Zep]

(Reads a good book. Again.)

[Burrell]

Quoting above

"[M]any are beginning to consider the worldwide sceptic movement on a par with Hells Angels."

Maybe it's a mute point but is it not a poor choice of words to contrast the skeptic movement to a group named after two things they do not believe in?

[Jeff Corey]

Not to quibble, but it's "moot", from an ancient English meeting, with the representatives of a shire to debate law. Probably from some Nordic derivation.
It can mean "subect to debate", or the converse, "settled, merely academic."
So a moot point is either settled or not.
As such, it seems to be a completely worthless word.
But that's a moot point.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
Not to quibble, but it's "moot", from an ancient English meeting, with the representatives of a shire to debate law. Probably from some Nordic derivation.
It can mean "subect to debate", or the converse, "settled, merely academic."
So a moot point is either settled or not.
As such, it seems to be a completely worthless word.
But that's a moot point. I always assumed it meant a point that was open for debate, a point so unclear that it needed to be taken to the moot.

Rolfe.

[Soapy Sam]

"I always assumed it meant a point that was open for debate, a point so unclear that it needed to be taken to the moot.

Rolfe"

Seconded. I assumed that too. I still do.

+

"Why, exactly, is it that business astrologers are not jailed for fraud?" comes to mind..."

Anders.


I presume for the same reason Financial advisors are not. Because merely being wrong does not prove they lied about their ability to be right.

[Anders W. Bonde]

Quite - and another possible reason might be that any businessman even remotely worth his salt would never admit to actually having used an astrologer's advice and would certainly not enjoy the publicity a lawsuit would generate. He would know it would simply be too embarrasing...My contention is that any businessperson seeking astrological advice already know, deep down, that it's a dead end...

(Edited 'cause I cain't tepy)

[CapelDodger]

from Anders W. Bonde:My contention is that any businessperson seeking astrological advice already know, deep down, that it's a dead end...There's a real "burning your bridges" feel to it, isn't there? No chance of a dramatic come-back after doing that publicly, and probably a belief in an after-life if done secretly. So perhaps it's more like eating your own gun - or portfolio, in this case.

[deBergerac]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
Not to quibble, but it's "moot", from an ancient English meeting, with the representatives of a shire to debate law. Probably from some Nordic derivation.
It can mean "subect to debate", or the converse, "settled, merely academic."
So a moot point is either settled or not.
As such, it seems to be a completely worthless word.
But that's a moot point.

In my dictionary the term ‘moot’ is not described as referring to cases that are settled and agreed upon. There is on the other hand an academic use of the word that refers to exercises and discussions of test cases.

[CFLarsen]

"Moot the Hoople"? :D

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by deBergerac
In my dictionary the term ‘moot’ is not described as referring to cases that are settled and agreed upon. There is on the other hand an academic use of the word that refers to exercises and discussions of test cases.
In my dictionary, that is the first definition, but "2. Law. Without legal significance, through having been previously decided or settled; of only academin importance."

[Mercutio]

Bump. In reading Lewis and his insider view of one scam, I was reminded of another scam. Any new folks who have not read this, it is long, but worth it.

[dann]

News from Karen Boesen today:

"(...)
Denne skeptiker er kendt for at overfalde serveringspersonalet på barer i New York, og - som det morsomste i den forbindelse - beskylder han astrologer for at være alkoholikere - for blot at nævne en smule her i farten. Nu kan jeg sandelig også se, at denne skeptiker har i sinde at fortælle mine klienter, hvorledes " jeg opfører mig ". Du gode gud! Manden må jo være forrykt. Med venlig hilsen Karen Boesen"

It is well-known that this skeptic (Claus Larsen) attacks waiters at bars in New York and - what is most funny in this context - he accuses astrologers of being alcoholics - just to mention a few things. Now I see that this skeptic intends to inform my clients about "my behaviour". God Almighty! The man must be insane.

I suppose that Karen Boesen leaves out her usual tirade about Claus Larsen being dead-drunk when he allegedly attacks waiters in N.Y. In the context it does not go very well with her allegations that Claus "accuses astrologers of being alcoholics".

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by dann
News from Karen Boesen today:

"(...)
Denne skeptiker er kendt for at overfalde serveringspersonalet på barer i New York, og - som det morsomste i den forbindelse - beskylder han astrologer for at være alkoholikere - for blot at nævne en smule her i farten. Nu kan jeg sandelig også se, at denne skeptiker har i sinde at fortælle mine klienter, hvorledes " jeg opfører mig ". Du gode gud! Manden må jo være forrykt. Med venlig hilsen Karen Boesen"

It is well-known that this skeptic (Claus Larsen) attacks waiters at bars in New York and - what is most funny in this context - he accuses astrologers of being alcoholics - just to mention a few things. Now I see that this skeptic intends to inform my clients about "my behaviour". God Almighty! The man must be insane.

I suppose that Karen Boesen leaves out her usual tirade about Claus Larsen being dead-drunk when he allegedly attacks waiters in N.Y. In the context it does not go very well with her allegations that Claus "accuses astrologers of being alcoholics".

Right. I hear he also eats babies, and washes them down with a good Chianti.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
...Why I remember one time in a bistro in NYC, being embarassed by Claus, who wasn't used to strong US beer, maniacically screaming at the poor waitress and attempting to bite her ankles until restrained by members of New York Area Skeptics...
This joke was the source of Ms. Boesen's information.

[Cleopatra]

:eek:

What if I start making jokes about Ms Boesen's sanity.

Lady, you are ridiculous.

[dann]

A brand new article about business astrology, but just for the Scandinavians, sorry (in Norwegian):
http://www.forskning.no/Artikler/2005/januar/1106229854.47

[dann]

With a new forum Danish astrologers appeal to what they call "real skeptics":

Skeptikerne
Skepsis betyder egentlig tvivl, men der er desværre alt for sjældent deciderede tvivlere på astrologiske fora, og hermed mener jeg folk, der både er skeptiske over for astrologien og over for afvisningen af den. Det er faktisk muligt at indtage dette standpunkt.
Disse rigtige skeptikere findes ganske givet – jeg har selv mødt mange af dem – men de brænder naturligt nok ikke for nogen sag og skriver følgelig heller ikke. Til gengæld har en gruppe astrologimodstandere med overvejende scientistisk baggrund bekæmpet astrologien. Her bør især astronomen Mogens Winther nævnes, der vel interesserer sig mere for astrologi end nogen astrolog. Han har sammen med andre fra Skeptikerforeningen udgivet bøgerne �Bedst af alle verdener� og �Håndbog i det alternative�. Nogle af disse skeptikere har været en kærkommen afveksling i diskussionerne. Vi synes fra Astrologiforeningens side, at det er forkert at bortcensurere astrologimodstandere og vil derfor på et tidspunkt oprette en undertråd, hvor disse diskussioner mellem tilhængere og modstandere af astrologien kan og SKAL foregå.
posted by Franz Michaelis at 3:43 AM 0 comments
http://astrologiforeningen.blogspot.com

In the meantime Karen Boesen is busy trying to bring down the old Danish Association of Astrologers and its forum Den Røde Tråd. It always annoyed her that she couldn't censor contributions from skeptics.
http://www.astrologforeningen.dk/discus/index.html
So far her website www.skeptico.dk, heralded for the autumn of 2004 or the winter of 2004-05, hasn't appeared.

[Powa]

Is this thread still alive? :D

Um, dann can you translate that for us Danish-challenged?

[dann]

"The Skeptics
Skepticism actually means doubt, but real skeptics are too rare in astrological discussion boards, in the sense of people who are skeptical when dealing with astrology as well as when dealing with the repudiation of astrology. It is actually possible to take this stand.

These real skeptics do exist - I have met many of them - but of course they are not zealous followers of a cause and therefore they also do not write. However, a group of opponents of astrology, mainly with a scientistic background, have been fighting against astrology. In particular the astronomer Mogens Winther, who is probably more interested in astrology than any astrologer, is worth mentioning in this context. With others from the Society of (Danish) Skeptics he has published the books "Best of All Worlds" and "Handbook of the Esoteric". Some of these skeptics have been a welcome change in the discussions. We from the Society of Astrology find it wrong to censor the opponents of astrology and at some point we will therefore make a thread where these discussions between the supporters and opponents of astrology can and MUST take place.
posted by Franz Michaelis at 3:43 AM 0 comments"
http://astrologiforeningen.blogspot.com

This, of course, means that they do not want skeptics to point out to them the mistakes they make in the other threads, but they would very much like to be able to say that critics of astrology are allowed to express themselves in their forum.

[Powa]

Originally posted by dann
This, of course, means that they do not want skeptics to point out to them the mistakes they make in the other threads, but they would very much like to be able to say that critics of astrology are allowed to express themselves in their forum.
Where they're going to be ignored. You know, like when you leave your children to play in your backyard and go do something else.

[dann]

Yes, I also go somewhere else when children point out the mistakes I make ... :)

[dann]

The Danish Association of Astrologers was dissolved yesterday, Saturday April 30
http://www.astrologforeningen.dk/

[steenkh]

Originally posted by dann
The Danish Association of Astrologers was dissolved yesterday, Saturday April 30

I wish this could be taken as good news, but they probably just disagreed internally. I do not see any slackening in the public belief in astrology!

[dann]

I'm not sure, Steen. Last Sunday one of the Danish astrologers sent these mails to two of the people (both of them astronomers) from Skeptica's list of people that jounalists can turn to for answers to questions about the paranormal.
http://www.skeptica.dk/dkskepsis/presselisten.htm It's a woman, but I want to stress that it's not Karen Boesen in this case:

"Fancy that the disgusting old men were actually able to attract 1 woman. Congratulations. Are you very ugly! Something must be wrong with you. But congratulations, you are now in the company of some very ugly old men. I hope that you are content. Maybe you ought to consider as a woman why they have drawn you into their disgusting company - maybe they need you to say Okay to everything that is not female. but maybe you don't think."

"Hi there, I would very much like to join your little club - then I could really tell you something about the devil - about people who cannot accomplish anything themselves - about people who hate all those who try to do alternative stuff and help other people.
I can really tell you about the bastards and animals who do everything in their power to ruin other people's lives - I can talk for hours about the dirty animals - but, of course, when they die they'll get what they deserve - they don't care about all living people - it is all about the miniature dick"
(It's even better in Danish!)

I cannot think of any other reason why an astrologer would start to rave like this right now. I mean, they successfully predicted that the new royal breeder would get pregnant this spring! I would have placed my money on the same bet, and I don't even know which sign she was born in, but still!

[dann]

Oh, I forgot the headlines!

"You are the only one" (i.e. you are the only woman on the list - apparently she didn't get all the way through the list)
and
"To the club of small dicks" (dick misspelled, even though it's just a three-letter word in Danish!)

[Mogens Winther]

"Warning : the Enemy is listening ! ! !"


Please let us draw your attention to the conference http://www.businessastrologers.com/NYHANNAH.htm of the International Association of Business Astrologers - ISBA - in Amsterdam at the end of May 2005.


For some time these astrologers have claimed that they would present a major breaktrough at that conference:

"To end on a positive note, I would like to mention that we in the ISBA - in the fields of business and financial astrology have many positive experiences. "

"Especially in connection with the approaching congress, we may experience an enourmous breakthrough."

Sure... ! We have been a looonngg time for that...

But this major soapbubble-breaktrough is so tiny and fragile that it should be kept a secret from all skeptics:

"But I had better wait telling you about this till later. These pages are read not only by our friends, but also by our enemies.“

- quoting ISBA "president" Karen Boesen at the Danish Astrologers Associations homepage on April 21st.

This hysteria about breaktroughs, that you have to keep a secret from the enemy, seems like a reminiscent of this old German Third Reich poster :
http://www.deutscher-tonfilm.de/afhm1.html

But now, on May 11th it appears that this expected "major breaktrough" only means that the conference will be visited by an international TV news channel - "reaching more than 100 million people".

And what exactly are these groundbreaking messages with which these astrologers want to enrich our world ? :

"Some companies use astrology to plan their future strategy and to hire people. Karen Boesen is best known for this kind of astrology. "

"However, she has also assisted employees in choosing a profession and picking favourable dates for writing job applications. Karen Boesen is the head of ISBA, the International Association of Business Astrologers."

A few examples of the kind of services that Karen Boesen has to offer those shady Scorpios who want to pick the profession best suited for them:

Karen Boesen: "All kinds of underground activities are by definition the domain of the Scorpio. Intelligence agencies, the fraud squad, espionage and detective agencies, to mention a few that would be very typical. Directors of funeral parlors are also to be found in the sign of destruction."

All this wonderful nonsense - and much more - is the basis of the upcoming conference in Amsterdam, May 2005.

It may be worthwile to read Boesen's presentation of her trade and the subsequent discussion with the international community of skeptics at:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?threadid=35498&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

So far Mrs Boesen and her association have refused to apply for the JREF prize and it is hardly to be expected that the promised major "breakthrough" will encourage them to do so.

http://www.skeptica.dk/dkskepsis/winther/randi.htm

"A new era of the magical explanation of the world is rising, an explanation based on will rather than knowledge. There is no truth in either the moral or the scientific sense." - Adolf Hitler.

best regards -


Dann and Mogens


members of www.skeptica.dk

[Zep]

Originally posted by dann
I mean, they successfully predicted that the new royal breeder would get pregnant this spring! I would have placed my money on the same bet, and I don't even know which sign she was born in, but still! Hey hey hey! - watch your talk, there, young man! Not so disrespectful, OK?

She's a TASMANIAN breeder! :D

Oh, and the talk in the women's magazines here for the last year or so (since they were married, actually) was about how soon the Prince and Princess were expected to have children. It seems clear this was her main official royal task in marrying Frederick - produce an heir or two now! So, given that they are two perfectly healthy people, such predictions would not really be predictions at all but were almost certain bets, as you said.

[dann]

Originally posted by Zep
She's a TASMANIAN breeder! :D Of course she is! Do you think I would have risked my money if she had a less fertile background?!Oh, and the talk in the women's magazines here for the last year or so (since they were married, actually) was about how soon the Prince and Princess were expected to have children.Yes, even the business astrologers didn't seem to think that she might aim at a career instead of having children ...

By the way, two astrologers, one of them Karen Boesen, complain that we don't link to their new discussion board: http://astrologiforeningen.blogspot.com/2005/04/skeptikerne.html
Funny that they don't link to this thread ...

[Zep]

Why don't YOU link it for them, Dann? :D And I wonder how long it will be before they cut it off again...

[dann]

It's much more fun to see them accuse us of being afraid of linking to their discussion board:
posted by Karen Boesen, 22 May, 2005 08:26
Gad vide, hvad det skyldes, at de ikke ønsker, at læseren skal besøge " Gratistråden " ? [= I wonder why they do not want the reader to visit the "Free Thread"?] This is now the third time I place a link in this thread to their discussion board since April 25, 2005: http://astrologiforeningen.blogspot.com/2005/04/skeptikerne.html
But Karen Boesen probably isn't to keen on having Danish astrologers see how she's made a fool of herself here ...

[MRC_Hans]

mmm, what a nice club. I have made a tentative reply to it, let's see if there is cencorship ;).

Man kan jo egentlig undre sig over, at astrologer skal testes af nogen, det være sig videnskabsmænd eller circusklovne. Hvorfor tester de ikke sig selv? Det er jo ikke just raketvidenskab at designe en test, og jeg er sikker på, at anerkendte videnskabelige publikationer gerne ville optage en vel-designet test, selvom den var lavet af astrologerne selv.

Så kan man naturligvis ikke vinde en million, men til gengæld måske noget anerkendelse, hvilket kunne gå hen og blive betydelig mere værdifuldt i det lange løb.

Med venlig hilsen,
Hans (aka MRC_Hans)
Translation: Actually, you may wonder why astrlogers need somebody to test them, be that scientists or circus clowns (KB just called Randi a circus clown), Why don't they go and test themselves? After all, it is not exactly rocket science to design a test, and I am sure scientific publications would accept a well-designed test, even it it was made by the astrologers themselves.

Of course, that won't win you a million, but instead some recognition, whicch might prove more valuable in the long run.

Best regards,
Hans (aka MRC_Hans)

... Wait for KB to soil me, hehehhe.

Hans

[dann]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
(KB just called Randi a circus clown) A circus clown and a conjuror, which, of course, makes him completely unreliable. Whereas Karen Boesen is not only an astrologer, but a business astrologer, i.e. she belongs to one of the most reliable professions known to man.
(By the way, she is usually very cautious when she might risk harming her own business. However, a few minutes ago I received an email from a friend of mine, a circus clown, who considered using Karen Boesen's services before his next job interview, but in view of her derogatory remarks about his profession he now swears that he'll never ever even consider reading another horoscope again!)

[dann]

Are you busy this weekend, Hans? http://www.businessastrologers.com/NYHANNAH.htm

[MRC_Hans]

Rather. Why?

Hans

[geni]

Originally posted by dann
Are you busy this weekend, Hans? http://www.businessastrologers.com/NYHANNAH.htm

600 euros?

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by geni
600 euros?

Oh, no - it's much cheaper than that.

"Single Lecture Participation" costs USD 40/Euro 30, while "Pre-Congress Special Evening Event Thursday" will set you back USD 200/Euro 150, but then you get a celestial dinner as well (presumably filled with hot air).

You can get on the train from Flensburg (http://www.db.de/site/bahn/de/start.html), by taking the night train.

You don't even have to order in your own name. Don't forget your best clothes, because there will be a TV-station present with a 100 million viewers.

You can even witness Karen Boesen walk on the water, during the "Astrological Boat Tour" USD 34/Euro 25 (non congress participants USD 40/ Euro 30).

Yep, it looks like it will be a fantastic show... ;)

[dann]

TAM3½?

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by dann
TAM3½?



...........NOT!

[exarch]

Hey, is that next weekend?
I'll be in Amsterdam next weekend for a martial arts meeting. Claus, we should totally do this. I also know a few nice pubs around the Prinsengracht.

Let me know if you have time for this.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by exarch
Hey, is that next weekend?
I'll be in Amsterdam next weekend for a martial arts meeting. Claus, we should totally do this. I also know a few nice pubs around the Prinsengracht.

Let me know if you have time for this.

I will.

[Jeff Corey]

Sometimes I really envy you Europeans. I'm guessing that for Claus to pop down to Amsterdam would be less hassle than for me to drive to Boston.
1. 72 miles to ferry( 1.5 - 2 hours),
2. 1.5 hour ferry ride, wait time about .5 hour, if lucky,
3. Three or so hours to Boston.
And that's the easy way.
Or, drive to airport and take plane, even more money and hassle.

[dann]

As always the meeting of the ISBA as described by Karen Boesen was incredibly successful. Wishful thinking seems to be her motive power in all situations.

She adds:
We discussed the skeptics very marginally during one of our lunch breaks. Nobody had any experiences with these people whom they tended to avoid in their respective countries due to an incredibly spiteful behaviour on their part. That is, feelings and not arguments are the driving force. Nobody knew Randi at all.

"Skeptikerne blev diskuteret meget perifert i en af vores frokostpauser. Ingen havde erfaringer med disse mennesker, som man generelt undgik i ens respektive hjemlande grundet i en utrolig ondskabsfuld opførsel fra disse personers side. Dette vil sige, at det er følelser, der er drivkraften og ikke argumenterne.Randi var der ingen, der kendte overhovedet."

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=12342477&postID=111418731086275288

How the business astrologers could avoid the skeptics due to their infamous spitefulness and yet have no experience with them whatsoever is hard to tell ...

[dann]

It is also interesting to notice what Karen Boesen doesn't mention:

1) The number of people who participated.
2) The number of skeptics who participated.
3) The TV station with an audience of 100 million who was expected to broadcast from the congress. Well, maybe they were there but just didn't think it worthwhile telling their viewers about it.
4) What happened to the "enormous breakthrough" that she expected in connection with the congress. Originally posted by Mogens Winther
"Especially in connection with the approaching congress, we may experience an enourmous breakthrough."(Karen Boesen) But that was probably not part of the reality of the conference. I guess it was just something that she read in a horoscope somewhere ... http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=12342477&postID=111416661854576742

[CFLarsen]

[i]How the business astrologers could avoid the skeptics due to their infamous spitefulness and yet have no experience with them whatsoever is hard to tell ... [/B]


[ironic mode]
You are not insinuating that Karen might be lying?
[/ironic mode]

[Zep]

Oh nononono! Karen is just...economical with the truth, shall we say...

:D :D :D

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Zep
Oh nononono! Karen is just...economical with the truth, shall we say...

:D :D :D

I would call it being excessively generous with the non-truths...

[MRC_Hans]

I like to call it "a creative view of reality".

Hans

[Darat]

I like my phrase "differently informed", more PC don’t you think? ;)

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Darat
I like my phrase "differently informed", more PC don’t you think? ;)

Absolutely. Only thing is, you're wrong.

Karen Boesen isn't differently informed. She has all the facts, she just chooses among them.

"Selective reality"? ;)

[Zep]

http://www.toonopedia.com/bonkers.jpg

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by dann
It is also interesting to notice what Karen Boesen doesn't mention:

1) The number of people who participated.
2) The number of skeptics who participated.
3) The TV station with an audience of 100 million who was expected to broadcast from the congress. Well, maybe they were there but just didn't think it worthwhile telling their viewers about it.
4) What happened to the "enormous breakthrough" that she expected in connection with the congress. But that was probably not part of the reality of the conference. I guess it was just something that she read in a horoscope somewhere ... http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=12342477&postID=111416661854576742 KB, who evidently follows this thread closely, quotes your questions, and complains about you not asking them over there. Then she writes this:

Mit bud er, vi nåede aldrig at få alle talt med, at der har været en 700 - 800 personer, der deltog i kongressen. Hvormange, der var skeptikere har jeg ingen anelse om, jeg vil tro, at de blev helt slået ud af vores gennemslagskraft, og derfor valgte ikke at bekende kulør.

Vi gik igennem Amsterdam i fakkeltog, folket jublede i gaderne og hang i vinduer og træer langs æresruten. Vi råbte slagord, som eksempelvis: " Længe leve astrologien - ned med skeptikerne. " Og lignende. Det faldt i folks smag. Klapsalverne bragede løs.

Presseopbuddet var stort og reportager følger i stort og småt hele juni måned igennem.

Under vores astrologiske bådtur måtte jeg desværre aflyse min normale performance, hvor jeg viser folket, hvorledes man går på vandet. Efter, at jeg har fået disse mærkværdige huller i fødderne, lader dette sig desværre ikke gøre mere.

Translation:

My ballpark figure, since we never managed to get a proper count, is 700-800 persons participating in the congress. How many skeptics were there, I have no idea; I assume they were so overwelmed by our force that they opted to not disclose themselves.

We marched through Amsterdam in a parade with lit torches, the people cheered in the streets and hung out windows and in trees along the honorary route. We chanted slogans, like: "Long live Astrology, down with the skeptics." People liked that. The applause was deafening.

The press attendance was large, and press issues will follow on big and small things in the coming month.

During our astrological boat-trip, I had to call off my usual performance where I show the populace how to walk on water. After I have been having these strange holes in my feet, I have unfortunately been unable to do this.

I always liked a sense of humor :).

The message in this might also be that we are taking KB all too seriously ;).

Edited to add: Perhaps somebody should tell KB that if the people she saw in the windows in Amsterdam were women, they are there for an entireley different reason...

Hans

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
I always liked a sense of humor :).

The message in this might also be that we are taking KB all too seriously ;).That's actually very funny! Maybe she's not all bad!

Rolfe.

[dann]

karen boesen said...
Vedr. skeptikere, der deltog i kongressen, tror jeg, at vi kan liste vedk. her. Vi udelader lige navnet. Det mest høflige.
"Concerning skeptics participating in the congress, I think that we can list that person here. We'll leave out the name. That is the polite thing to do.""Dear Mrs. Boesen,

Did you have a successful conference in Amsterdam? I am writing a magazine article about it, but I was only present on Thursday evening and Friday morning. Did the ISBA make important decisions or announcements I should know about?
Were there more reporters on Saturday and Sunday?

Kind regards,"

02 June, 2005 09:21The only journalist present at the ISBA congress was a skeptic??!

[Mogens Winther]

Boesen : "The press attendance was large, and press issues will follow on big and small things in the coming month."

translated mrs Boesen into normal English this always means : maybe one journalist or two.

This ISBA conference has been a total media coverage failure - checking www.worldnews.com (which covers 3000 news sources ) gives zero result.

So maybe business astrology is ruled by a falling star ?


/MW

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by dann
[i]"Concerning skeptics participating in the congress, I think that we can list that person here. We'll leave out the name. That is the polite thing to do." I don't get this? Why is it polite or leave out the name? If it is a private mail, the polite thing would be not to publish it. And if not, since the message is perfectly innocent, why should the sender not want his/her name mentioned?

Hans

[dann]

Don't even try to get it. There is nothing to get! Karen Boesen always enjoys to make a show of her alleged virtues. Last year she was toying with the idea that an email from the astrologer Jytte Koch Littau would prove a point she was trying to make about her accusations against Claus and me. However, being the virtuous person that she claims to be, she regretted not being able to post Koch Littau's email since she, the virtuous Karen Boesen, would never do a thing like that. Then she mailed it to me, and when I pointed out to her that Littau didn't actually say the things that Karen Boesen thought she did, she went ahead and posted it at Den Røde Tråd.
A couple of days later I got an email, addressed to both Karen Boesen and me, from Jytte Koch Littau, who had apparently been off-line for a week or so, thanking Karen Boesen for not posting the private email that she, unbeknownst to Littau, had posted in the meantime!
Unlike skeptics, Karen Boesen is just soooo very ethical!

[Zep]

The very fact that Karen is continually taking money off people and businesses for providing completely bogus and non-existent services suggests to me that she and ethics live on different planets, never to be aligned.

[dann]

I'm not really sure, Zep. I have a feeling that most of the people and businesses who would even consider buying Karen Boesen's services are the ones who try to make a living providing completely bogus and non-existent services for other people: numerologists, dowsers, little shops selling ear candles etc.
I mean, would people who are seriously interested in the things that the real world can provide go to a business astrologer?

When a few business men might seriously consider going to a business astrologer, I susptect that it's probably due to the unpredictability of the market economy - and they'd probably tend to do this only as a last resort immediately before filing a petition in bankruptcy.

It is my impression that the only really successful business astrologer in Denmark (i.e. the guy who is able to make real money selling his dubious services as an astrological investment adviser) primarily caters to the notoriously superstitious segments of rich people such as actors, people from the music industry etc., i.e. people who may make a lot of money in fields that tend to be very much out of their control. Even a successful actor can't bank on her popularity remaining the same for ever, and nobody really knows in which part of the music business money is to be made next year.
At least, that is the kind of celebrities that you hear him refer to as his clients, and you don't see him mingle with a lot of hotshot CEOs. (Not that it would bother me if he did. Those guys can afford whimsical behaviour. I don't have a lot of stocks and bonds anyway!)

[exarch]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
Sometimes I really envy you Europeans. I'm guessing that for Claus to pop down to Amsterdam would be less hassle than for me to drive to Boston.
1. 72 miles to ferry( 1.5 - 2 hours),
2. 1.5 hour ferry ride, wait time about .5 hour, if lucky,
3. Three or so hours to Boston.
And that's the easy way.
Or, drive to airport and take plane, even more money and hassle.How's this for coincidence? I may perhaps be going to Denmark in Juli, to the island of Langland, and unlike what you might think, that's about a 750-800 km drive (i.e. at least 7 hours, probably closer to 8 or 9), and depending on which route I take, it includes a ferry ride as well.

It may be only a short 1,5 hour ride to Amsterdam, but some parts of Europe really are quite far apart, although perhaps not by American standards.

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by exarch
How's this for coincidence? I may perhaps be going to Denmark in Juli, to the island of Langland, and unlike what you might think, that's about a 750-800 km drive (i.e. at least 7 hours, probably closer to 8 or 9), and depending on which route I take, it includes a ferry ride as well.*snip*But then, Langeland IS about as far out as you can get in Denmark ;). Have a nice trip, though. Bring reading matter.

Hans

[exarch]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
But then, Langeland IS about as far out as you can get in Denmark ;). Have a nice trip, though. Bring reading matter.
When looking for "Humble", Mappy keeps giving me directions to Humlebæk (Fredensborg-Humlebæk), which is another 150 km further away and an additional hour driving.

BTW, looking for Langeland didn't yield any better results. I actually had to Google both names in combination to stumble upon a web page of some guy selling his cabin by the lake, listing a few big towns in the neighbourhood that Mappy WAS able to find correctly.

But anyway, chances are I'll be in Denmark at the end of July.
Are there any business astrologers I can go bother while there?

[MRC_Hans]

For those without local knowledge: There is actually a town called Humble on Langeland. I don't know the original meaning of that name, but you will find that the place lives well up to the English interpretation.

There is an excellent Danish online map here (http://www.krak.dk/GRIDS/MAINPAGES/map.asp?Tagning=1.Fir_Fors/FA_Kort). It is in Danish, of course, but you should be able to find you way around it anyway, but I have zoomed in on Humble for you here (http://www.krak.dk/GRIDS/MAINPAGES/map.asp?mapnavfac=&mapnav=&ResultName=&ResultAdr=&tlf=&redZoom=false&redExtent=&mapx=&mapy=&job=&POSTNR_BY=5932+Humble&Adresse=&Tagning=4.2_Kort_Res%2FIK_by&stepinout=&scrolltop=0&mapserial=kortld.krak.dk%7C607843941%7C607571763%7 C60728145%7C61068367%7C641300000%7C603300000%7C427 50000%7C90250000%7C500%7C400%7C100000%7C100000%7C6 0898256%7C607707852%7C0%7C%7C%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0% 7C0%7C1%7Cff0000%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0&zoomlevel=4)

You can always bother Karen Boesen, of course, but she lives in Copenhagen.

Hans

Edited to add: The zoomed link may not work.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by exarch
When looking for "Humble", Mappy keeps giving me directions to Humlebæk (Fredensborg-Humlebæk), which is another 150 km further away and an additional hour driving.

Hint: If you drive 150 km an hour, you will be stopped by the police. ;)

And it's 231 km between Humble and Humlebæk (http://www.krak.dk/GRIDS/subPAGES/routeMap.asp?fhusnr=&thusnr=&fvej=&tvej=&fpby=5932%20Humble&tpby=3050%20Humleb%E6k&fvnr=&tvnr=&fastAdresse=&FastTilAdresse=&Tagning=3.RutP_Fors/KN_Kort&kunde=&rx=609144,720539&ry=6076865,6207351) (the latter has one of the finest modern art museums in the world, far better than MOMA).

Yeah, yeah: Facts.

[Darat]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Hint: If you drive 150 km an hour, you will be stopped by the police. ;)

And it's 231 km between Humble and Humlebæk (http://www.krak.dk/GRIDS/subPAGES/routeMap.asp?fhusnr=&thusnr=&fvej=&tvej=&fpby=5932%20Humble&tpby=3050%20Humleb%E6k&fvnr=&tvnr=&fastAdresse=&FastTilAdresse=&Tagning=3.RutP_Fors/KN_Kort&kunde=&rx=609144,720539&ry=6076865,6207351) (the latter has one of the finest modern art museums in the world, far better than MOMA).

Yeah, yeah: Facts.

I know the police tend to be fit but can they really cycle fast enough to catch up with and stop someone going at 150km/h?

[MRC_Hans]

I don't know what they do in your neck of the woods, but here the bikes they ride are made by BMW.

Hans

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
I don't know what they do in your neck of the woods, but here the bikes they ride are made by BMW.

Hans

You must excuse Darat. He still thinks the horseless carriage is a fad of the future. ;)

[MRC_Hans]

Yeah, just noticed he's in the UK. Soo sorry, Darat ;).

Hans

[Darat]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
I don't know what they do in your neck of the woods, but here the bikes they ride are made by BMW.

Hans

Of course - I forgot that Denmark is part of north Germany... :P

[MRC_Hans]

Just a friendly advice, pal: Don't EVER say that when any Danes are physically present, unless you are a really good runner.


Hans

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Just a friendly advice, pal: Don't EVER say that when any Danes are physically present, unless you are a really good runner.

It's OK - Darat still can't get over Lindisfarne.

[exarch]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Hint: If you drive 150 km an hour, you will be stopped by the police. ;)

And it's 231 km between Humble and Humlebæk (http://www.krak.dk/GRIDS/subPAGES/routeMap.asp?fhusnr=&thusnr=&fvej=&tvej=&fpby=5932%20Humble&tpby=3050%20Humleb%E6k&fvnr=&tvnr=&fastAdresse=&FastTilAdresse=&Tagning=3.RutP_Fors/KN_Kort&kunde=&rx=609144,720539&ry=6076865,6207351) (the latter has one of the finest modern art museums in the world, far better than MOMA).

Yeah, yeah: Facts.
I think it's something to do with the fact that the route they give you to Langeland (or at least to Rudkøbing) involves taking an additional ferry west-south-west from that slightly larger island to the east of Langeland, wheras the route to Humlebæk just takes the E47-E55 further north.
Unless the ferry manages to reach speeds of up to 150 km/h ;)
So the difference is not just the distance but also the slower speed of the ferry and likely also the time spent waiting for the ferry (which they probably didn't even include in their calculation) ...

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by exarch
I think it's something to do with the fact that the route they give you to Langeland (or at least to Rudkøbing) involves taking an additional ferry west-south-west from that slightly larger island to the east of Langeland, wheras the route to Humlebæk just takes the E47-E55 further north.
Unless the ferry manages to reach speeds of up to 150 km/h ;)
So the difference is not just the distance but also the slower speed of the ferry and likely also the time spent waiting for the ferry (which they probably didn't even include in their calculation) ... You can get to Langeland without using ferries, but Humlebæk is undoubtedly more interesting. There are some nice holiday flats in Rudkøbing overlooking the marina, though. However, I'm sure you will find Humble nice and unstressful ;).

Edited to add: Oh, and the E47-E55 north will take you past Copenhagen, so unless you choose the wee hours or Sunday morning, alow at least 30 minutes for traffic jams (MUCH more during rush-hours :eek: ).

Hans

[Zep]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Edited to add: Oh, and the E47-E55 north will take you past Copenhagen, so unless you choose the wee hours or Sunday morning, alow at least 30 minutes for traffic jams (MUCH more during rush-hours :eek: ).

Hans Do you mean to say all four Danish horse-carts and the single national shared car need to go to the same place at the same time EVERY day?

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by Zep
Do you mean to say all four Danish horse-carts and the single national shared car need to go to the same place at the same time EVERY day? Actually, I have no idea what those are doing, but a portion of the privately owned cars manage to fill up about 60 kilometers of three-lane motorways bumper to bumper for several hours every day. So aparantly a lot of us want to live a good distance from our work-place.

Hans

[Zep]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Actually, I have no idea what those are doing, but a portion of the privately owned cars manage to fill up about 60 kilometers of three-lane motorways bumper to bumper for several hours every day. So aparantly a lot of us want to live a good distance from our work-place.

Hans There's more than one car??? How do they fit them all in such a tiny country?

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by Zep
There's more than one car??? How do they fit them all in such a tiny country? I told you it was crowded.

Hans

[Powa]

Originally posted by Zep
There's more than one car??? How do they fit them all in such a tiny country?
Slovenia is even smaller than Denmark and even we have more than one car.

Sometimes it feels like all the cars we have are on the same road at the same time when I try to get to work.

[dann]

http://astrologiforeningen.blogspot.com/#111521745882784270 How ignorant can you get? Don't these peole know anything? I mean, one of them is a business astrologer! She ought to know that it's called The McDonalds Academy!

[CFLarsen]

From the link:

Omkring den første verdenskrig udviklede Alfred Witte en ny form for astrologi, hvor han forestillede sig hypotetiske planeter, der skulle ligge længere væk fra Solen end Neptun. Disse hypotetiske planeter blev tillagt deres egne egenskaber, og deres baner blev beregnet.

About World War I, Alfred Witte developed a new form of Astrology, where he imagined hypothetical planets, which were further from the Sun than Neptune. These hypothetical planets were endowed their own characteristcs, and their orbits were calculated.

If anyone doubted that Astrology is nothing but bunk, this is the final nail in the coffin.

Imaginary planets in imaginary orbits? Imaginary characteristics? And this produces trustworthy and correct horoscopes?

GIVE ME A FEGGIN' BREAK!

:hb:

[dann]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
These hypothetical planets were endowed their own characteristcs, and their orbits were calculated. Endowing hypothetical planets with their own characteristics isn't much different from endowing real planets with hypothecal characteristics ... and hypothetical effects.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by dann
Endowing hypothetical planets with their own characteristics isn't much different from endowing real planets with hypothecal characteristics ... and hypothetical effects.

Well, at least one can point to the mythological characteristics of, say, Venus and Mars. There are some historical reasons, be they ever mired in the darkness of mythology...

[Zep]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
From the link:





If anyone doubted that Astrology is nothing but bunk, this is the final nail in the coffin.

Imaginary planets in imaginary orbits? Imaginary characteristics? And this produces trustworthy and correct horoscopes?

GIVE ME A FEGGIN' BREAK!

:hb: *sigh*

Let's follow through on this, shall we?

1) How many extra planets did this person propose?

2) What were their characteristics - size, speed, orbits, periods, etc?

3) How close was he to the real thing?

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Zep
*sigh*

Let's follow through on this, shall we?

1) How many extra planets did this person propose?

2) What were their characteristics - size, speed, orbits, periods, etc?

3) How close was he to the real thing?


Cupido, Hades, Zeus, Kronos, Apollon, Admetos, Vulcanus and Poseidon. (http://www.astrologer.ru/Witte/biography_eng.html)

What a bunch of baloney.

[Zep]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Cupido, Hades, Zeus, Kronos, Apollon, Admetos, Vulcanus and Poseidon. (http://www.astrologer.ru/Witte/biography_eng.html)

What a bunch of baloney. *bigger sigh*

I know that already, Claus - the "TransNeptunians" and all that bilge. I just want to hear it from one of them...or leave the questions on record unanswered.

[pmurray]

Originally posted by Brown
Thank you for your reply. If one of the charts is a "founding chart," what is the other? Is it a "forecasting chart?" Does it go by another name?

As I understand it, the question of where the planets are in the sky at the moment an event occoured is of astrological interest. Thus, venus on the horizon can be taken to mean something different from venus an hour later that day, 15 degrees above the horizon. I think they call it "houses" or something.

So whatshername is saying that you can't do that second chart because a company does not have a moment of birth. This strikes me as wrong - wouldn't it be the moment the certificates of incorporation are signed?

In any case, it's shotgunning. Pull in so many factors and influences that anything han be justified in retrospect. The bible codes people are working the same thing.

[Zep]

The Nostradamus crowd have been doing precisely the same thing for MANY years.

[JAK]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
...
If anyone doubted that Astrology is nothing but bunk, this is the final nail in the coffin.

Imaginary planets in imaginary orbits? Imaginary characteristics? And this produces trustworthy and correct horoscopes?

GIVE ME A FEGGIN' BREAK!

:hb:
In the U.S., astrologers have been referencing imaginary planets for decades (if not centuries). Many american astrologers refer to the "American Ephemeris for the 20th Century 1900 to 2000 at Noon." Unfortunately, the planetary positions noted in this reference have been 30 degrees off since I first began verifying them astronomically in the late 1980s, early 1990s. Thus, whatever planets this book referenced were astronomically imaginary.

On a humorous note, if the LEGO birthdate was August 13th, and the astonomical positioning of today hold for the 1930s, then the Sun was in CANCER on August 13th, 1932 (or whatever year it was). Cancer has significant and distinct differences from Leo in astrology.

Of further convern, Pluto never ruled Scorpio until it was discovered circa 1930. For whatever reason, Mars, which was doing double-duty as the ruler of both Aries and Scorpio, was relieved of the Scorpio task. Why Mars? I dunno - Venus and Mercury also do double-duty.

NASA just posted the discovery of a new planet last month (late July). Will Venus or Mercury be relieved of one of their duties? If so, which one? For which sign? (When you are playing with imaginary planets, what difference does it make?!)

Clearly, astrology is suffering from the fallacy of false causes. To believe that the planets have any affect upon our lives is ludicrous.

Nevertheless, do any of the principles have merit? Do any of them produce systematic, reproducible results?

We shall see ... ;)

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by JAK
We shall see ... ;)

We're moving, moving... Nothing to see here, folks. We're moving, moving...

[JAK]

Originally posted by BillHoyt
We're moving, moving... Nothing to see here, folks. We're moving, moving...

Yes, you're right. This issue has moved. It has moved to the Challenge section. And a test is forthcoming.

[Meffy]

Please pardon my lateness in responding. This is just too good to miss out on.

Originally posted by dann
Last year she was toying with the idea...

Indeed. Here in North America there are two chains of stores whose very names memorialize what Ms. Boesen does:

http://home.comcast.net/~meffy/stuffs/kbtoys_kbkids_logos.gif

But as Triumph the Insult Comic Dog says: "I kid, I kid!"

[dann]

Re: Troværdighed på skeptica.dk

Skrevet af Anonymous User den 04.08.2005 05:18
Jeg selvfølgelig har jeg ret.
Men jeg vil også appellere til de mandlige læserer. Skeptikere er for 90% vedkommende mænd, at de forsøger at tage hensyn til kvinder og børn, inden de ruller sig ud.

Jeg underviste en kollega i formiddags, og jeg forespurgte, hvorfor hun ikke deltog i alle disse slagsmål.

Hun svarede ordret: " Det tør jeg simpelthen ikke! Jeg har familie, og jeg har ikke mindst børn. Kan du forestille dig, at der står en af disse militante skeptikere udenfor vores børns skole og venter på " at følge dem på vej "? Eller kan du forestille dig, at de skal mobbes i skolen, fordi deres mor er blevet kaldt sindsyg, kriminel etc. i det offentlige forum? Det vil jeg aldrig byde dem. Jeg er simpelthen bange! Vi taler jo om en militant bevægelse, når disse mennesker er på banen."

Velbekomme!!!

/Karen Boesen

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

You can find this, and more, from the business astrologer Karen Boesen at www.futureport.dk


Re: Reliability at skeptica.dk
Written by Anonymous User, August 4, 2005 05:18

Of course I'm right.
But I also want to appeal to male readers. 90 % of skeptics are men, that they try to show consideration for women and children before they rise to the occasion.

This morning I was teaching a colleague, and I asked her why she did not participate in all these fights.

She answered verbatim: "I simply dare not do so! I have a family, and what is more important, I have children. Could you imagine one of those militant skeptics outside our children's school waiting to "take them on their way"? Or can you imagine that they'll be harassed at school because their mother has been called insane, a criminal etc. in the public forum? I cannot expose them to that risk. I am simply afraid! We are talking about a militant movement, when these people are on the loose."

Good luck!!!!

/Karen Boesen
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


An appeal to all Danish skeptics!

Next week a new school year begins, and we are in dire need of your assistance.
We simply haven't got the manpower to pick up all the children of superstitious parents after school!
So far nobody has volunteered to wait outside the gates of Øresundsvejens Skole, DK-2300 København S, on Friday, August 19, for instance, so if any skeptics in that area are available on that date, please contact www.skeptica.dk

[Mogens Winther]

"I simply dare not do so! I have a family, and what is more important, I have children. Could you imagine one of those militant skeptics outside our children's school waiting to "take them on their way"? ...

- definitely a genuine Boesen - only Karen herself could construct such an association.


Nearly as wonderful as the recent newspaper comment by her Danish Collegue, Karl AAGe Jensen - who claims he has during 2005 been advising 70 companies in business astrology matters.

As Karl AAge tells in todays BT newspaper : if only these companies would not be so afraid of being exposed by those laughing skeptics - he would have a lot more customers.

"Ho ho ho ho... !"


best greetings

Mogens Winther.

[dann]

You didn't know that fear of skeptics is actually the driving force behind the success story of Denmark´s economy, Mogens?
http://netscape.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_46/b3858014.htm

But do we ever hear a word of gratitude from the CEOs or the Danish premier? Where are all the contributions to thank us for helping Danish industry stop squandering money for the salaries of business astrologers and other paranormalists? Or for the hours spent waiting outside school gates to pick up astrologers' children for a reality check?
Instead they prefer to think that the boom is all due to firing workers, paying minimum wages and cuts in social security!
"Now Denmark is the third-largest exporter of pharmaceuticals per capita and among the world leaders in biotechnology patents."All due to the fear of being associated with astrology and superstition! :)

[dann]

New article about business astrology in Dutch:
Astrologie in bedrijven en op de beurs
www.skepsis.nl/cover.html
and the Danish translation:
Erhvervsastrologi - et alternativ til plat og krone
www.skeptica.dk

[dann]

New book by Karen Boesen (editor), Anvendt Astrologi (Applied Astrology):
http://www.astrologyforum.dk/cgi-bin/discus/show.pl?tpc=1403&post=21277#POST21277