Double Standards Again...

[Skeptic]

Who gets automatic citizenship in israel?

"Israel shall give citizenship to all those who are ethnically jews, and can prove their jewishness in terms of their habits, language, and culture..."

So much for automatic citizenship. What about applications for citizenship? Who is not allowed to apply?

"Any body, except muslims, who meets the criteria below can become an israeli citizen..."

How about the presidency?

"The president of israel must be a jew".

Awfully racist laws, aren't they? Why wasn't israel condemned for them?

Well, the reason is that they aren't true. There are no such laws in israel. What I am quoting from is a law that was in force in Germany for decades after WWII, giving citizenship to ethnic Germans; the law of citizenship in Jordan, explicitly excluding jews; and the law of Egypt, making sure the president must be a Muslim. I just changed "German", "jew" and "Muslim" to "jew", "Muslim", and "jew", espectively.

I suggest that racist Jordan, Egypt, and Germany have no right to exist, and must be wiped off the face of the earth. After all, this is the only just punishment for racism... as long as the "racists" are jews, of course.

Okay, not really. But, never mind that none of you had CONDEMNED Germany, Jordan, or Egypt for "racism" for having these laws, while israel's law of return is universally condemend. How many of you have even HEARD about these laws?


Why this double standard? I suggest that it is for the same reason the jews were hated in the past for being against Communism, or Capitalism, or Christianity, or Rome, or progress, or nationalism, or country X, or its enemy, country Y.

For some people--like, on this forum, "A Unique Person" and "The Fool", among others--"Human Rights" has become not a concern, but a religion, the one true faith, the same way Communism, or Nationalism, or Christianity, etc., are for others. Once it is the one true faith, there must be a heretic, as well--and the heretic, those who must be punished for their "lack of respect for human rights" (or "killing Christ", or "spreading international Bolshevism", or...), is (of course) the jew.

This explains why "The Fool" and "A Unique Person" has so little concern for real human rights violations: what is important is not to improve human rights anywhere, but to protest one's faith (by bashing israel). This also explains why they couldn't care less about human right abuses elsewhere: what was important was to find a convenient heretic to display one's faith, and once the jews are found, there is no need to look any further.

[Dancing David]

You forgot to mention old deeds in the USA, in a town thirty minutes north of my town they still have deeds that will not allow the property to be sold to african amaricans, asians and I am sure members of the jewish faith.

I am not suprised that any nation in europe would have restrictive laws most nations have all sorts of weird restrictive laws. Fortunately the US on has two hundred years of stupidity to overcome.

In Nippon there are people who have lived there for multiple generations but they are not citizens.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Skeptic
Who gets automatic citizenship in israel?

"Israel shall give citizenship to all those who are ethnically jews, and can prove their jewishness in terms of their habits, language, and culture..."

So much for automatic citizenship. What about applications for citizenship? Who is not allowed to apply?


The only truly automatic citizenship is being born there.

You might qualify to be an Israeli citizen, but you wouldn't be one unless you formally applied for it.

Anyone with a Jewish grandparent who has not converted to another religion may become a citizen.

Note that this means that not all "right of return" Jews are Jews according to religious law.

[American]

Where I work the girls all got to have these paper towel dispensers that dispense paper towels without touching them. It's got a laser or something that knows when you want a towel. The men's room didn't have it- us guys were getting a raw deal. So I says to the regional site co-ordinator, can we get that too cause that's not fair, it's a double standard... the guy says to me yeah, that was already like that when we moved in, and I'm like so fix it already! Guy says he'll "look into it", and I'm like no that's not good enough, fix the damn paper towel dispenser. Week later-- I walk in after moring break to take a dump- guess what... there's a brand new automatic paper towel dispenser, BETTER than the one the girls room got. Now they be complaining soon that ours is all better and *****. Tough! Let's see how they like having the tables all turned on them.

[Mycroft]

Uhm, American, how is it that you know so much about what's in the womens bathroom?:p

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Skeptic
Who gets automatic citizenship in israel?

"Israel shall give citizenship to all those who are ethnically jews, and can prove their jewishness in terms of their habits, language, and culture..."

So much for automatic citizenship. What about applications for citizenship? Who is not allowed to apply?

"Any body, except muslims, who meets the criteria below can become an israeli citizen..."

How about the presidency?

"The president of israel must be a jew".

Awfully racist laws, aren't they? Why wasn't israel condemned for them?

Well, the reason is that they aren't true. There are no such laws in israel. What I am quoting from is a law that was in force in Germany for decades after WWII, giving citizenship to ethnic Germans; the law of citizenship in Jordan, explicitly excluding jews; and the law of Egypt, making sure the president must be a Muslim. I just changed "German", "jew" and "Muslim" to "jew", "Muslim", and "jew", espectively.

I suggest that racist Jordan, Egypt, and Germany have no right to exist, and must be wiped off the face of the earth. After all, this is the only just punishment for racism... as long as the "racists" are jews, of course.

Okay, not really. But, never mind that none of you had CONDEMNED Germany, Jordan, or Egypt for "racism" for having these laws, while israel's law of return is universally condemend. How many of you have even HEARD about these laws?


Why this double standard? I suggest that it is for the same reason the jews were hated in the past for being against Communism, or Capitalism, or Christianity, or Rome, or progress, or nationalism, or country X, or its enemy, country Y.

For some people--like, on this forum, "A Unique Person" and "The Fool", among others--"Human Rights" has become not a concern, but a religion, the one true faith, the same way Communism, or Nationalism, or Christianity, etc., are for others. Once it is the one true faith, there must be a heretic, as well--and the heretic, those who must be punished for their "lack of respect for human rights" (or "killing Christ", or "spreading international Bolshevism", or...), is (of course) the jew.

This explains why "The Fool" and "A Unique Person" has so little concern for real human rights violations: what is important is not to improve human rights anywhere, but to protest one's faith (by bashing israel). This also explains why they couldn't care less about human right abuses elsewhere: what was important was to find a convenient heretic to display one's faith, and once the jews are found, there is no need to look any further.

oh boo F*cking hoo loser.
As one of the most blatant offensive racists and liars I have ever had the misfortune to meet, you feel that you have a right to misrepresent my position on any topic you feel like... I care about human rights abuses anywhere. I have on numerous occasions condemned Palestinian organisations and Arab governments for racist policies....It is YOU that refuse to see racism on one side of this Issue. It is YOU who feels justified in making blatant racist attacks on palestinians......It is YOU who feels you have no obligation to site examples when you accuse me of something.

Please feel free to support your accusations with examples if you can (you can't, you never have been able to).. When I call you for racist statements I am more than happy to quote the statements.

Part of the price of taking on racists is that they tend to spam the board for a while afterwards crying about not being able to attack thier targets unchallanged....well, I say again...Boo F*cking hoo loser.

Your whining is giving me a headache.

[clk]

Originally posted by Mycroft
Uhm, American, how is it that you know so much about what's in the womens bathroom?:p

He's a janitor. To be more specific, I've heard that he just got promoted to assistant janitor, and he is making $8.00 an hour now. Way to go, American! We're all very proud of you!

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Skeptic


For some people--like, on this forum, "A Unique Person" and "The Fool", among others--"Human Rights" has become not a concern, but a religion, the one true faith, the same way Communism, or Nationalism, or Christianity, etc., are for others. Once it is the one true faith, there must be a heretic, as well--and the heretic, those who must be punished for their "lack of respect for human rights" (or "killing Christ", or "spreading international Bolshevism", or...), is (of course) the jew.



If you can think of a better group, I'd like to hear about them. Until then, Jews it is.
:p :p

[UserGoogol]

Some countries stand out more than others. Turkmenistan's government is a sick joke, and yet people tend to not think about it so much. Israel, to contrast, is deeply lodged in the public eye, and whatever civil rights gaffes they might have stand out.

Syria and Egypt don't stand out as much as Israel because their problems are so damned common in that area. A country which borders Israel is antisemetic? A Middle-Eastern nation is tied with Islam? Whoop-de-doo. But Israel, that's where you've got something unique.

I'm not really sure about Germany, though.

[Skeptic]

oh boo F*cking hoo loser.

Anoher instance of "The Fool's" method of argument in action.

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


If you can think of a better group, I'd like to hear about them. Until then, Jews it is.
:p :p

When all else fails, try sarcasm, eh, AUP?

[Skeptic]

I care about human rights abuses anywhere.

Oh really?

When was the last time you posted anything on this board condemning, say, the massacres of Rwanda or Sudan? How about what's going on in Mali? Nigeria seems to have trouble with human rights too, have you posted about that? Where are your posts about human rights abuses in Iran? China? Argentina? Chad? Tibet? Egypt? Libya? Syria? Peru? Russia? North Korea? Or a few dozen other countries I could name?

Of course, they don't exist, Mr. "I care about human rights everywhere". Care to prove me wrong? Want to count how many posts you have about "human right abuses" in israel as opposed to how many posts you have about human rights abuses in the rest of the world put together?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Skeptic
I care about human rights abuses anywhere.

Oh really?

When was the last time you posted anything on this board condemning, say, the massacres of Rwanda or Sudan? How about what's going on in Mali? Nigeria seems to have trouble with human rights too, have you posted about that? Where are your posts about human rights abuses in Iran? China? Argentina? Chad? Tibet? Egypt? Libya? Syria? Peru? Russia? North Korea? Or a few dozen other countries I could name?

Of course, they don't exist, Mr. "I care about human rights everywhere". Care to prove me wrong? Want to count how many posts you have about "human right abuses" in israel as opposed to how many posts you have about human rights abuses in the rest of the world put together?

I have posted on and started threads about human rights in other areas of the world. Have you?

[Chaos]

What I am quoting from is a law that was in force in Germany for decades after WWII, giving citizenship to ethnic Germans;

Would you care to give sources for that?

As far as I know, (and I should know, being a German) German citizenship is automatically granted if at least one parent already has German citizenship.
That is nothing out of the ordinary, and certainly not a reason to bash Germany yet again. As far as I know, every country in the world has either this rule or gives automatic citizenship to anybody born in the country.

[Cain]

Septic blathered:
When was the last time you posted anything on this board condemning, say, the massacres of Rwanda or Sudan? How about what's going on in Mali? Nigeria seems to have trouble with human rights too, have you posted about that? Where are your posts about human rights abuses in Iran? China? Argentina? Chad? Tibet? Egypt? Libya? Syria? Peru? Russia? North Korea? Or a few dozen other countries I could name?

Warning: self-evident fact ahead
On these type of topics people post threads that will generate discussion and debate. This is precisely why your idiotic rants often garner so many replies.

The human rights abuses of Islamic regimes (for example) are known -- if only vaguely -- to most people. Human rights abuses committed by Israel are not well-known, particularly in the United States, Israel's most important diplomatic and financial supporter by far. Worse, apologists such as yourself attempt to justify, rationalize, and excuse these atrocities.

Is anyone making excuses on behalf of Islamic states for their horrible human rights records? No, it's regarded as non-controverisal, and therefore not subject to intense discussion.

This explains why "The Fool" and "A Unique Person" has so little concern for real human rights violations: what is important is not to improve human rights anywhere, but to protest one's faith (by bashing israel). This also explains why they couldn't care less about human right abuses elsewhere: what was important was to find a convenient heretic to display one's faith, and once the jews are found, there is no need to look any further.

Slimey.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Skeptic, I consider you an OK guy, and I have given you a direct factual answer to your question.

Yeah Israel has a "double standard" or more precisely an ethnically preferential standard for citizenship.

However, the Israeli government has also given citizenship to a bunch of non-Jews, which is controversal among Jews.

Why get worked up about it? Are you itching to be an Israeli?

If you are not Jewish and male, convince an Orthodox rabbi to have you clipped and dipped. If female, dipped is enough.

You are then Jew enough to be Israeli.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred
Skeptic, I consider you an OK guy, and I have given you a direct factual answer to your question.

Yeah Israel has a "double standard" or more precisely an ethnically preferential standard for citizenship.

However, the Israeli government has also given citizenship to a bunch of non-Jews, which is controversal among Jews.

Why get worked up about it? Are you itching to be an Israeli?

If you are not Jewish and male, convince an Orthodox rabbi to have you clipped and dipped. If female, dipped is enough.

You are then Jew enough to be Israeli.

It's not that simple. Many of those non-Jews have been shunted off to the settlements to boost the numbers, an act that those Israelis responsible for this act should be ashamed of.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Skeptic


When all else fails, try sarcasm, eh, AUP?

Well, it's either that flogging the "strawman' fallacy again, but I think you beat me to it.

[Earthborn]

Awfully racist laws, aren't they?Sure, but that's nothing compared to the hypocritical laws in The Netherlands.

In the Netherlands, everyone is obligated to join the army, except the Frisians. Nice isn't it, that they are allowed to choose? Well, since Frisians are heavily discriminated against, and the army is often used against them, they would be crazy if they joined it. So they don't.

People who have served in the army get all kinds of benefits. Since Frisians would be crazy to join it, they are left out of all kinds of benefits. But they get the same rights as those Dutch people who were exempted on moral grounds to join to the army right? No, that's not true. The Dutch who did not serve in the army get the same benefits as those that did.

Because Frisians can't join the army without suffering abuse, they are effectively excluded from all sorts of regulations that are available to all the Dutch, whether they served the army or not, even though these are officially only for those that did.

Even though there are no laws that are officially directed at Frisians, it is awfully discriminatory, isn't it? Apperently it isn't strictly necessary to have laws specifically directed against a group of the population in order for them be interpreted in a way that results in severe discrimination. Why isn't the Netherlands condemned for it?

Well, the reason is it isn't true. There are no such laws in the Netherlands. What I presented is the situation in Israel. I just replaced 'Israel' with 'the Netherlands', 'Israeli' with 'Dutch' and 'Palestinian' with 'Frisian'.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


It's not that simple. Many of those non-Jews have been shunted off to the settlements to boost the numbers, an act that those Israelis responsible for this act should be ashamed of.

How is that "not that simple"? Once you're in, you're what the government says you are. Simple.

What's to be ashamed of? Settlements? Why is it a provocation to have Jews (or gentile Roumanians or whatever) move into the neighborhood?

If Jews or Roumanians moved into your neighborhood and someone objected, I am sure you would call it racist.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Earthborn
Sure, but that's nothing compared to the hypocritical laws in The Netherlands.

In the Netherlands, everyone is obligated to join the army, except the Frisians. Nice isn't it, that they are allowed to choose? Well, since Frisians are heavily discriminated against, and the army is often used against them, they would be crazy if they joined it. So they don't.


The Netherlands Army used against the Frisians? When was the last time the Frisians were surpressed by fire and sword? I would have thought in the sometime in the 1500s, but I am prepared to be corrected.

More information please.

[Ed]

Originally posted by Dancing David
You forgot to mention old deeds in the USA, in a town thirty minutes north of my town they still have deeds that will not allow the property to be sold to african amaricans, asians and I am sure members of the jewish faith.


I am sure that there are new deeds like that too. Are you suggesting that the government should tell you who you can and can't sell your personal property to? Those deeds have nothing to do with the government.

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred


The Netherlands Army used against the Frisians? When was the last time the Frisians were surpressed by fire and sword? I would have thought in the sometime in the 1500s, but I am prepared to be corrected.

More information please.

Did you notice the subtle glimmer of satire on Earthborn´s post? She is using Skeptic´s own methods against him. Not that I expect it to have any effect on our fellow poster...

[shemp]

I just want to say I'm amazed this thread has gotten this far without an invocation of Godwin's Law. (http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/g/Godwin_s_Law.html)

[Earthborn]

Shemp, you just had to bring that up didn't you? Nazi.

[NightG1]

Originally posted by Skeptic
Who gets automatic citizenship in israel?

"Israel shall give ....<snip due to extreme nausia>

Ah, yes. the return of the "Why don't people see" strawman. Only this time, instead of the "the left" its AUP and The Fool. Nice. I guess if you keep repeating a lie often enough, the hope is at some point the lie aquires the patina of truth - or something like that. Keep it up Skep.

[Earthborn]

When was the last time the Frisians were surpressed by fire and sword? I would have thought in the sometime in the 1500s, but I am prepared to be corrected.Well, they still get uppity now and then, with their suicide bombings and all that. They do this when Dutch people settle in the arid deserts of Friesland and pump up water for their own use, and then those Frisians complain that the Dutch don't share it. Well, boohoohoo... Let them draw their own wells.

And 'struggle for statehood' ? My foot! There is already a Frisian state and it is called Nord Friesland and it is just across the eastern border (in Germany). If they want their own state why don't they just move there?

God promised The Netherlands to the Dutch, and that means all of it!

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by Earthborn
Well, they still get uppity now and then, with their suicide bombings and all that. They do this when Dutch people settle in the arid deserts of Friesland and pump up water for their own use, and then those Frisians complain that the Dutch don't share it. Well, boohoohoo... Let them draw their own wells.

And 'struggle for statehood' ? My foot! There is already a Frisian state and it is called Nord Friesland and it is just across the eastern border (in Germany). If they want their own state why don't they just move there?

God promised The Netherlands to the Dutch, and that means all of it!


I went to a Frisian Liberation Organization Rally once but I couldn't understand a thing they were saying....it was almost like those Frisians have a different word for everything...;)

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Chaos


Did you notice the subtle glimmer of satire on Earthborn´s post? She is using Skeptic´s own methods against him. Not that I expect it to have any effect on our fellow poster...

Well I don't know what's really going on in the Netherlands, though I'm sure I'd hear of any fighting.

It's not always easy to tell between satire and impassioned political exaggeration.

In the USA, the Democrats even seriously blame Bush for bad weather. That sort of thing used to be a joke.

Is there really some situation with the Frisians, or is it all a joke and there is no Frisian situation?

Insane silliness unto murder is a good description of international politics these days, so how can I tell?

[Earthborn]

Is there really some situation with the Frisians, or is it all a joke and there is no Frisian situation?Okay, I admit. It is just a joke. The worst disagreement the Dutch have with the Frisians is that the Frisians think they have a seperate language that Dutch people can't understand, and that the Dutch say that the Frisians just have a different dialect and they can understand them just fine.

[American]

Originally posted by Earthborn
Okay, I admit. It is just a joke. The worst disagreement the Dutch have with the Frisians is that the Frisians think they have a seperate language that Dutch people can't understand, and that the Dutch say that the Frisians just have a different dialect and they can understand them just fine.


Do they both have automatic paper towel dispensers?

[jj]

Originally posted by American



Do they both have automatic paper towel dispensers?

Those things really discriminate against vampires, you know. It appears that quite aside from not reflecting in mirrors, they won't trip those light beams, and always have to walk out of the loo with wet hands!

Save the vampire hands! Ban light-activiated dispensers!

(Um, do I need to explain the sarcasm here?)

Between Skepdic, "american", and the parodies, I think this thread has run its run. In fact, I think it had collapsed before the first post.

Yes there are human rights violations in all sorts of places, I am in no doubt about that. Making silly word substitutions isn't going to help stop any of them.

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Earthborn
Well, they still get uppity now and then, with their suicide bombings and all that. They do this when Dutch people settle in the arid deserts of Friesland and pump up water for their own use, and then those Frisians complain that the Dutch don't share it. Well, boohoohoo... Let them draw their own wells.

And 'struggle for statehood' ? My foot! There is already a Frisian state and it is called Nord Friesland and it is just across the eastern border (in Germany). If they want their own state why don't they just move there?

God promised The Netherlands to the Dutch, and that means all of it!

I beg to differ. The "Frisian state" is called "Ostfriesland" (East Frisia), and it is not a state. It is the butt of a joke. Or, more correctly, of lots of lousy jokes. :D

"Why do East Frisians take a scissors with them when they go to bed?
So that, if a burglar breaks into their house, they can cut off his retreat."

And so on...

By the way, the Frisians can´t come here - we don´t want them. You can have the East Frisians back, too. :)

[epepke]

Originally posted by jj
Those things really discriminate against vampires, you know. It appears that quite aside from not reflecting in mirrors, they won't trip those light beams, and always have to walk out of the loo with wet hands!

Not to mention those electric hand dryers with the UV light bulbs in them.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Skeptic
I care about human rights abuses anywhere.

Oh really?

When was the last time you posted anything on this board condemning, say, the massacres of Rwanda or Sudan?

When was the last time someone poste to this board defending them?




How about what's going on in Mali? Nigeria seems to have trouble with human rights too, have you posted about that?

When someon like you starts denying it is happening.


Where are your posts about human rights abuses in Iran? China? Argentina? Chad? Tibet? Egypt? Libya? Syria? Peru? Russia? North Korea? Or a few dozen other countries I could name?

who should I direct my posts to? Can you direct me to the people that misrepresent, defend or rationalise these abuses? Just one little example "skeptic".....show me where I have double standards....where are the threads defending Chinas right to persecute people? The reason I don't challange Idiot racists on those issues on this board is that our resident Idiot racist is a one trick pony.



Of course, they don't exist, Mr. "I care about human rights everywhere". Care to prove me wrong? Want to count how many posts you have about "human right abuses" in israel as opposed to how many posts you have about human rights abuses in the rest of the world put together?
I'll do you a deal...you stop posting racist crap and I'll stop calling it racist crap. That seems pretty fair to me. Until then please don't think for one moment that your weekly self gratifying "look at me" thread is going to go unchallanged just because you follow it up with a "poor me" whine....grow up.

[Earthborn]

Originally posted by Chaos
I beg to differ. The "Frisian state" is called "Ostfriesland" (East Frisia), and it is not a state.Well, excuuuse me for misplacing Nord Friesland in Germany while it is in Denmark. Friesland, West Friesland, Ost Friesland, Nord Friesland... It is all pretty much the same thing to me.By the way, the Frisians can´t come here - we don´t want them. You can have the East Frisians back, too. :)Maybe we should send them all to Denmark. After all, the Danish speak just as funny. And Denmark isn't as densely populated, so there is more than enough room for them. After that we can build a fence around what remains of Friesland, which won't be a political border, just a protection against Frisian suicide bombers.

No, that won't be like a new Berlin wall, it's completely different: only a few percent of it is desiged to become a seven meter high concrete wall, the rest will just be a fence (just like the border between East and West Germany used to be). So stop calling it a 'Berlin Wall', leftists.

Did you know that they could have prevented all this themselves, if their terrorist leader Yilke de Vries had just accepted our offer of giving them 98% of what he demanded. He could have had 98%, if he wasn't so stubborn to demand the other 2% (including the cities, roads and waterwells) too.

:D <- For those who missed that this is meant as satire.

[jj]

Originally posted by epepke


Not to mention those electric hand dryers with the UV light bulbs in them.

Yeah, after that you have to grow new skin. Painful.

[rikzilla]

not-Originally posted by The Fool



oh boo F*cking hoo loser.
As one of the most blatant offensive racists and liars I have ever had the misfortune to meet, you feel that you have a right to misrepresent my blah blah position on any blah blah blah topic you feel like... I care about human rights blah blahracist, liar, blah blah blah racist liar blah blah blah I care blah blah you racist liar I care about human rights blah blahracist, liar, blah blah blah racist liar blah blah blah I care blah blah you racist liar I care about human rights blah blahracist, liar, blah blah blah racist liar blah blah blah I care blah blah you racist liar I care about human rights blah blahracist, liar, blah blah blah racist liar blah blah blah I care blah blah you racist liar anywhere. I have on numerous occasions condemned Palestinian organisations and Arab governments for racist policies...I care about human rights blah blahracist, liar, blah blah blah racist liar blah blah blah I care blah blah you racist liar .It is YOU that refuse to see racism on one side of this Issue. I care about human rights blah blahracist, liar, blah blah blah racist liar blah blah blah I care blah blah you racist liar It is YOU who feels justified in making blatant racist attacks on I care about human rights blah blahracist, liar, blah blah blah racist liar blah blah blah I care blah blah you racist liar palestinians......It is YOU who feels you have no obligation to site examples when you accuse me of something.I care about human rights blah blahracist, liar, blah blah blah racist liar blah blah blah I care blah blah you racist liar Your whining is giving me a headache.I care about human rights blah blahracist, liar, blah blah blah racist liar blah blah blah I care blah blah you racist liar I care about human rights blah blahracist, liar, blah blah blah racist liar blah blah blah I care blah blah you racist liarI care about human rights blah blahracist, liar, blah blah blah racist liar blah blah blah I care blah blah you racist liar I care about human rights blah blahracist, liar, blah blah blah racist liar blah blah blah I care blah blah you racist liar

The Fool-bot program exposed! :D

-z

[The Fool]

Originally posted by rikzilla


The Fool-bot program exposed! :D

-z
Its nice to see the symbiosys of Rickyboy and "skeptic" seamlessly stepping up to the plate as soon as the other runs out of original Ideas.

Come to think of it ricky boy, I can't remember you ever speaking out against the human rights abuses in chad...you must be a closet anti-semite too..;) Whats going to happen to you to when it dawns on Batman that robin is anti-semitic? It could get ugly between you two....

[shuize]

And here we see how much the Dutch care about human rights: Dutch to Deport Asylum Seekers (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&ncid=721&e=6&u=/ap/20040218/ap_on_re_eu/netherlands_immigration) It nice of the Dutch to take time out of their busy schedule to lecture the rest of the world on how things should be done.

(In defense of the Dutch, however, I'm sure things could be worse. At least they're not sending these refugees to Srebrenica.)

But I digress. Wasn't the subject of this thread "double standards?"

[a_unique_person]

In general, refugees around the world are having a tough time of it, and the supply of places for them far outstrips the demand. The logical thing is for the world to become a better place, so we don't get the refugees in the first place.

Apart from that, many people are illegal immigrants/economic refugees. That is, people who just want a better life. (And who doesn't?) It's a difficult problem and it's never going to be solved to everyone's satisfaction.

[Earthborn]

Originally posted by shuize
And here we see how much the Dutch care about human rights: Dutch to Deport Asylum Seekers (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&ncid=721&e=6&u=/ap/20040218/ap_on_re_eu/netherlands_immigration) It nice of the Dutch to take time out of their busy schedule to lecture the rest of the world on how things should be done. Wow, what a low blow below the belt. Pretty ignorant too.

A majority of people in the Netherlands is against this measure. City councils have done everything to prevent from being forced to dragging people out of their homes even providing refuge to people that might be deported defying the national government.
It should also be noted that these refugees were not systematically discriminated against, and many were tolerated for decades, with pretty much all the benefits everyone else has.

And you should note that there is a plan to deport these people. That plan will surely backfire when it is going to include families with children. There is a reason why they haven't been deported before.

And as a_unique_person said, this is hardly an issue that doesn't exist elsewhere in the world.(In defense of the Dutch, however, I'm sure things could be worse. At least they're not sending these refugees to Srebrenica.)In defense of the Dutch, they also had ten years of independent investigation into the incident, and a government fell because of it. A government fell because some members in it failed to prevent civilian deaths a long time before. I don't remember anything like that happening in, for example the USA or Israel, but prove me wrong if you can.

Sure it was too late. Nobody ever claimed the Netherlands were perfect.

[shuize]

Originally posted by Earthborn
Wow, what a low blow below the belt. Pretty ignorant too.

A majority of people in the Netherlands is against this measure.And yet it's happening. How ignorant of me for thinking so.

(By the way, this is unrelated to my sarcasm, but usually "a majority is ... a majority of people are...")

... It should also be noted that these refugees were not systematically discriminated against, and many were tolerated for decades, with pretty much all the benefits everyone else has.That's nice. But now they're being deported. How ignorant of me for thinking that an eagerness to talk down to the rest of us actually meant the Dutch cared about their own asylum seekers.

And you should note that there is a plan to deport these people... Great. A plan. I'm sure that'll make them feel so much better. Having a "plan" to deport them certainly must mean the Dutch know best about human rights and can return directly to lecturing the rest of the world. (Really, it's getting so that the Dutch are almost as bad as the Belgians ... who of course never ruled an African colony they didn't mind raping but now see fit to assert "universal jurisdiction" to judge everyone else...)

And as a_unique_person said, this is hardly an issue that doesn't exist elsewhere in the world. In defense of the Dutch, they also had ten years of independent investigation into the incident, and a government fell because of it. A government fell because some members in it failed to prevent civilian deaths a long time before. I don't remember anything like that happening in, for example the USA or Israel, but prove me wrong if you can.I wouldn't know about Israel, but governments don't "fall" in the USA. It has presidental elections every four years (every two for Congress). Very dishonest of you for trying to use the lack of a government collapse in the USA to try and show absence of concern for human rights, though.

But, as you'll no doubt have noticed by now, my point was not that these things don't happen outside of the Netherlands. Rather that despite your willingness to lecture the rest of the world on how things ought to be, you still have some work to do at home first. Thus the apparent "double standard."

[Earthborn]

but usually "a majority is ... a majority of people are..."Well excuse me for not using all the illogical expressions in a foreign language.

In fact that's so illogical, I bet it is wrong in English too.I'm sure that'll make them feel so much better.No it doesn't, and I did not claim it did.the Dutch know best about human rights and can return directly to lecturing the rest of the world.No, just a bit better than some others.who of course never ruled an African colony they didn't mind raping but now see fit to assert "universal jurisdiction" to judge everyone else...If you bothered to look into the history of the Belgian anti-genocide law, you'll see that it was instituted as a reaction to Belgian human rights violations in Africa. Some countries apperently admit they are not perfect. The Belgians just overstretched a little, and they know it.governments don't "fall" in the USA.Maybe they should. They also don't seem to have many independent and parlementary investigations into various failings of the government, especially when innocent lives are lost.

And yes, Israeli governments do sometimes fall. Usually not because some influential cabinet members turn out to be responsible for deaths, but usually when the many parties in a 'cabinet of National Union' disagree with eachother too much.But, as you'll no doubt have noticed by now, my point was not that these things don't happen outside of the Netherlands.And nobody ever claimed that they didn't.Rather that despite your willingness to lecture the rest of the world on how things ought to be, you still have some work to do at home first.Yes, of course. Some countries lecture the rest of the world while they have work at home, by promoting the international rule of law. Others by invading other nations and trying to force them into shape.Thus the apparent "double standard."The Dutch invented Double Standard. Just look at all the laws we have where things are defined as illegal, but where the government is obliged to keep a blind eye at. Gedoogbeleid: policies of tolerance. It's ridiculous, but it works.

However the Netherlands still does better in some areas than some other countries, and can (and should) point that out to others. After all, that's true of almost all nations on Earth.

[shuize]

Originally posted by Earthborn
Well excuse me for not using all the illogical expressions in a foreign language. Not a problem. I still do the same in Japanese.
In fact that's so illogical, I bet it is wrong in English too. I'll bet it's not. I know a majority of Dutch people think they is/are (which sounds better?) perfect English speakers, but just ask around. Besides, it was not meant as a dig against you. That's why I set it off in parenthesis.

Now back to the Australian-European double standards show.

[epepke]

Originally posted by Earthborn
Wow, what a low blow below the belt. Pretty ignorant too.

Welcome to a teensy, tiny, tepid, and toned-down taste of the kind of arguments that any US citizen who pays attention to anybody outside the US has to listen to every single day.

Consider yourself lucky that you aren't held personally accountable for those slave ships that the Dutch used to build way back when. And do I have to mention South Africa?

Yeah, it's not a big deal occasionally. Try experiencing it, non-stop, for thirty or forty years, every single time you talk to someone who isn't from the Netherlands.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by shuize
(By the way, this is unrelated to my sarcasm, but usually "a majority is ... a majority of people are...")
&lt;off topic&gt;A bit quick of the gun there; the case of the collective noun can be either plural or singular, depending on whether the collective noun refers to a single unit or a group of individuals, and to some extent on convention, as the use of the singular case with collective nouns is more common in American English than in <del>proper</del> British English. As the "majority" mentioned by Earthborn implies a group of people united in this instance, the usage of the singular is correct. Or not incorrect, if you see what I mean :)&lt;/off topic&gt;

Grammar stuff from the Oxford English Dictionary

[shuize]

Originally posted by BillyTK

&lt;off topic&gt;A bit quick of the gun there; the case of the collective noun can be either plural or singular, depending on whether the collective noun refers to a single unit or a group of individuals, and to some extent on convention, as the use of the singular case with collective nouns is more common in American English than in <del>proper</del> British English. As the "majority" mentioned by Earthborn implies a group of people united in this instance, the usage of the singular is correct. Or not incorrect, if you see what I mean :)&lt;/off topic&gt;

Grammar stuff from the Oxford English Dictionary Off the European-Australian double standards topic again for a moment.

My suggestion was to use "are" with the phrase: "A majority of people are ..." Not the phrase: "A majority is... " I would agree that in the second example "is" is acceptable. Perhaps my first parenthetical explanation was not clear.

Earthborn's phrasing was: "A majority of people in the Netherlands is against this measure." (emphasis mine)

The sentence: "A majority in the Netherlands is against this measure" sounds fine. The first version is painful to the ears.

If you don't think so, try the other example I followed up with above: "I know a majority of Dutch people think they is (sic) perfect English speakers, but just ask around."

Are you saying that is correct British English?

Now back to the regularly scheduled anti-US, anti-Israel program.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by shuize
Off the European-Australian double standards topic again for a moment.

My suggestion was to use "are" with the phrase: "A majority of people are ..." Not the phrase: "A majority is... " I would agree that in the second example "is" is acceptable. Perhaps my first parenthetical explanation was not clear.

Earthborn's phrasing was: "A majority of people in the Netherlands is against this measure." (emphasis mine)

The sentence: "A majority in the Netherlands is against this measure" sounds fine. The first version is painful to the ears.
The first version may sound painful to the ears, but that's a matter of convention; both are correct. A majority of people is still a majority of people, unless that majority of people are in disagreement with each other.

If you don't think so, try the other example I followed up with above: "I know a majority of Dutch people think they is (sic) perfect English speakers, but just ask around."

Are you saying that is correct British English?
I've checked my previous post and can find no such a suggestion, probably because your example here is of an entirely different nature to Earthborn's phrase. It's grammatically incorrect as the case of the verb is defined by the preceding pronoun 'they'—not by 'a majority of Dutch people'—which is always followed by the third-person plural case of a verb. I don't know why, it just is.

"A majority of Dutch people is perfect English speakers" would still be grammatically incorrect as the final bit of the sentence refers to lots of English speakers; however both "A majority of Dutch people is English speaking" and "A majority of Dutch people are English speaking" are both acceptable, although the former is less preferable in British English, and more common in American English (according to the OED).

And just to get really pissy, my preferred construction of your sentence would be, I know a majority of Dutch people who think they are perfect English speakers, but just ask around," but again, this is a matter of convention and familiarity, not that your construction is wrong.

[LFTKBS]

Originally posted by Ed
Are you suggesting that the government should tell you who you can and can't sell your personal property to?

I'm suggesting just that. (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/1981.html)

[shuize]

We're drifting still further from the topic ... but I'm sure I'm partially to blame.

Ed said:Are you suggesting that the government should tell you who you can and can't sell your personal property to?

LFTKBS responded by providing a link to Section 1981 of the U.S. Code.

Good luck enforcing that, LFTKBS. If I want to be a pr*ck and not sell my property to a minority just because he or she is a minority, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. The government cannot compel me to sell my property to someone against my wishes. (And before anyone tries to get technical, eminent domain laws are not used to compel sales between individuals.)

What the government can do, however, is refuse to uphold restrictive covenants when someone else tries to bar the sale of my property to a minority.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by epepke


Welcome to a teensy, tiny, tepid, and toned-down taste of the kind of arguments that any US citizen who pays attention to anybody outside the US has to listen to every single day.

Consider yourself lucky that you aren't held personally accountable for those slave ships that the Dutch used to build way back when. And do I have to mention South Africa?

Yeah, it's not a big deal occasionally. Try experiencing it, non-stop, for thirty or forty years, every single time you talk to someone who isn't from the Netherlands.


I am quoting this post because I like it and because I want to try to bring the discussion back on topic.