Ignoring the world

[daenku32]

American national introversion has made us so ignorant of the world around us, we don't know what they want. Our exports are pretty much entirely based on our perceived 'exceptionalism'. We only export the things we like to consume. If it's something we wouldn't consume, why would they? Right? Wrong. Until we start thinking what people in China or India want the best chance we have is if they become our cultural clones. That our business leaders and financiers are so much leaned towards conservatism is not helping to reach to the world.

[theprestige]

Evidence?

[Weak Kitten]

Um, I work the International Game Developer's conference here in San Francisco every year and there are lots of talks and round tables about "What Asia Wants in a Game" or "What Europe Wants in a Game". From what my friends in other industries say both television and movies are thinking and researching it too.

Also...aren't we one of the major world exporters of rice? I mean, I vaguely remember that the Japanese kanji for the U.S.A. includes the symbol for rice and roughly translates as "land of plentiful rice".

[quixotecoyote]

This may be one of those "speak for yourself" moments.

[Puppycow]

Also...aren't we one of the major world exporters of rice? I mean, I vaguely remember that the Japanese kanji for the U.S.A. includes the symbol for rice and roughly translates as "land of plentiful rice".

This is true. But Japan is extremely protective of its rice market, and does not allow cheap foreign rice in. So the US is excluded from that market.

[Loss Leader]

American national introversion has made us so ignorant of the world around us, we don't know what they want. Our exports are pretty much entirely based on our perceived 'exceptionalism'. We only export the things we like to consume. If it's something we wouldn't consume, why would they? Right? Wrong. Until we start thinking what people in China or India want the best chance we have is if they become our cultural clones. That our business leaders and financiers are so much leaned towards conservatism is not helping to reach to the world.


Even if this were true on an individual level, I don't think it holds true for the corporate world. Capitalist forces pretty much force us to shift our production towards world markets.

And the evidence I've seen tends to support that foreign nations sometimes feel inundated by too much American commercialism. Even Canada demands that their TV shows have "Canadian content." And I was given to understand that the collapse of East Germany was precipitated in large part by an acute desire in the East to have the products available in the West.

[BNRT]

This is true. But Japan is extremely protective of its rice market, and does not allow cheap foreign rice in. So the US is excluded from that market.

Tuna then? I'm quite sure I saw a tuna being caught in the US and then flown to Japan.

[Puppycow]

Tuna then? I'm quite sure I saw a tuna being caught in the US and then flown to Japan.

True. Japan is the biggest purchaser of tuna I believe.

One tuna can apparently fetch as much as $175,000 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8440758.stm). I don't understand why this is. That works out to over $700/kg, and most tuna does not retail for anywhere near that much in my admittedly limited experience. It's a mystery to me. Then again, much smaller truffles can fetch even more money than this tuna, so I shouldn't be too surprised.

[daenku32]

Even if this were true on an individual level, I don't think it holds true for the corporate world. Capitalist forces pretty much force us to shift our production towards world markets.

And the evidence I've seen tends to support that foreign nations sometimes feel inundated by too much American commercialism. Even Canada demands that their TV shows have "Canadian content." And I was given to understand that the collapse of East Germany was precipitated in large part by an acute desire in the East to have the products available in the West.

I grew up in Europe so I understand. However that is simply the case of us exporting the very same goods we consume by the masses.

I could just quote the trade deficit to prove the point about lack of exports that are designed for the foreign markets.

Just going by what is evident in discussions about the economy is that any ideas about improving the economy involve domestic markets and cheap imports. Even when things were good there wasn't much talk about foreign markets. The closest we get to real discussion on the matter is China's monetary manipulation, and even addressing that is criticized as 'anti' free trade.

I simply don't see US industries that are setup primarily with export business in mind. I could of course be missing these but like I mentioned, the trade deficit really speaks for itself. And then there is the 'gut feeling' I get from listening to people.

[BNRT]

True. Japan is the biggest purchaser of tuna I believe.

One tuna can apparently fetch as much as $175,000 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8440758.stm). I don't understand why this is. That works out to over $700/kg, and most tuna does not retail for anywhere near that much in my admittedly limited experience. It's a mystery to me. Then again, much smaller truffles can fetch even more money than this tuna, so I shouldn't be too surprised.

Very, very thin slices?

[Puppycow]

Very, very thin slices?

According to the article it's a couple of very upscale sushi restaurants, so I guess they just charge a lot for their sushi and cater to a wealthy clientele.

[Loss Leader]

There's another side to this. Nations that are producing products primarily for export, and not consuming the products themselves, tend to care less about the overall quality of the product. Would there be quite so much lead in toys out of China if Chinese kids would be playing with them, too?

I see no way to serve outsiders without coming to hate the outsiders just for not being you.

[Puppycow]

I see no way to serve outsiders without coming to hate the outsiders just for not being you.

:boggled:

I hope not. That would mean the Japanese all hate me. I work for a Japanese company serving Japanese customers and I don't hate them. It would also mean that every time you go out to a Chinese restaurant, all the people serving you hate your guts.

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

Tuna then? I'm quite sure I saw a tuna being caught in the US and then flown to Japan.

Soy is another good example. The U.S. is either the first or second largest soy producer (depending on which source you read... Brazil is other #1/#2). Although tofu and vegetarian products have become more popular recently, I would say soy is really not a major part of the diet for the vast majority of Americans. It is by and large an export crop.

There is also the fact that, for better or worse, much of what Americans consume has caught on. McDonald's. Hollywood. KFC. etc. But even those companies tailor to local tastes. McDonald's in Korea sells a shrimp burger and a few other "Korean" style dishes. Ditto in Japan, China, etc.

[Corsair 115]

American national introversion has made us so ignorant of the world around us, we don't know what they want. Our exports are pretty much entirely based on our perceived 'exceptionalism'. We only export the things we like to consume.


In 2009, the United States exported a total of $1.057 trillion worth of goods to other nations. Of that total, $760.2 billion (71.9%) went to fifteen specific countries. The top five recipient nations of U.S. export goods:

#1. Canada - $204.7 billion (19.4%)
#2. Mexico - $129.0 billion (12.2%)
#3. China - $69.6 billion (6.6%)
#4. Japan - $51.2 billion (4.8%)
#5. U.K. - $45.7 billion (4.3%)

Source: U.S. Census Bureau - Foreign Trade Statistics.

[MikeMangum]

I could just quote the trade deficit to prove the point about lack of exports that are designed for the foreign markets.

Uh, no. The trade deficit has absolutely nothing to do with the point the OP was attempting to make.

I think the explanation you are looking for to explain the trade deficit is the Comparative Advantage due to differences in the Cost of Labor.

[Loss Leader]

. Although tofu and vegetarian products have become more popular recently, I would say soy is really not a major part of the diet for the vast majority of Americans.


Then you'd be incorrect. My son is allergic to soy, and I have found it is in everything. Soy can be fractioned into oil, protein, flour and, significantly, lecithen. Soy oil is or may be in just about every bread in the US. If soy oil is the cheapest that day, it may be used in place of safflower, canola or other oils. I haven't bought bread in a supermarket for over a year because of soy oil.

Soy protein "beefs up" many prepackaged meals. Fake crab, bacon bits, chicken nuggets, and hot dogs usually have soy protein. It's popular in many protein shakes and energy bars.

Lecithen, however, is the big one. A compound that allows oil and water to mix, lecithen is present in egg yolk and soy beans. Using eggs in recipes, however, leads to early spoilage. So, many manufacturers use soy lecithen instead. In virtually every baking recipe that calls for an egg yolk, you'll find soy in the mass produced version.

I certainly agree with you that most Americans don't realize how much soy they're really eating - because tofu snacks are not big outside certain communities in the West Village. But soy is an absolute staple of the American diet. For example, soy constituted 69% of all of the edible fats and oils consumed in the US in 2009. In 2009, we produced 3.3 billion bushels of soybeans, and exported 1.2 billion, leaving over 2 billion bushels for domestic consumption.

As regards the size of that crop, we produce about 38% of the soybeans in the world. Skipping Brazil, which is the next largest grower, we produce more soy than every other country in the world.

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

I could just quote the trade deficit to prove the point about lack of exports that are designed for the foreign markets.

Aside from what MikeMagnum wrote (which is spot on), how do you know the trade deficit isn't due to too many imports (because of how much we consume), rather than a lack of exports?


I simply don't see US industries that are setup primarily with export business in mind.

Then we sure do a hell of a job without even trying. The U.S. is the 3rd largest exporter in the world, and the drop-off is pretty steep after us (Japan is the 4th and they export barely over half of what we do).

[daenku32]

Aside from what MikeMagnum wrote (which is spot on), how do you know the trade deficit isn't due to too many imports (because of how much we consume), rather than a lack of exports?




Then we sure do a hell of a job without even trying. The U.S. is the 3rd largest exporter in the world, and the drop-off is pretty steep after us (Japan is the 4th and they export barely over half of what we do).

If the business owners worked hard enough they could overcome the trade deficit. If the topic is comparative advantage, then we can easily overcome the trade deficits by pure will power alone. Apparently, US companies still lack that will power.

[Ziggurat]

Would there be quite so much lead in toys out of China if Chinese kids would be playing with them, too?

Why not? They put melamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine) in milk for domestic consumption (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal), which was far worse than most of the lead in toys that's shown up here.

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

If the business owners worked hard enough they could overcome the trade deficit. If the topic is comparative advantage, then we can easily overcome the trade deficits by pure will power alone. Apparently, US companies still lack that will power.

I don't know of many businesses whose growth strategy is "will power."

If citizens bought less stuff, we could also overcome the trade deficit. Buy less, import less, keep exports the same. That would fix the deficit, right? (That might not be so good for the economy, though... just one way that the trade deficit is misleading).

In other words, we could solve the trade deficit by ignoring the world.

You just successfully proved that the U.S. doesn't ignore the world enough!

[daenku32]

I don't know of many businesses whose growth strategy is "will power."

If citizens bought less stuff, we could also overcome the trade deficit. Buy less, import less, keep exports the same. That would fix the deficit, right? (That might not be so good for the economy, though... just one way that the trade deficit is misleading).

In other words, we could solve the trade deficit by ignoring the world.

You just successfully proved that the U.S. doesn't ignore the world enough!
People simply buying fewer imports would be the same as protectionism, which according to comparative advantage is a foolish venture. Additionally, it is the US corporations that determine for us consumers where our products come from. We hardly have a clue, or choice for that matter. The problem is that while we the consumers ignore the world, we buy whatever the US corporations sell us (regardless of where they were made, or by whom). Correcting the problems of importation from places where the currency is manipulated (like China), or where child labor is used, may be helpful, at the end the only way for us to grow the economy is through greater consumption of US goods by foreigners.

Until the private industry oligarchy that controls the vast majority of US wealth can divert their attention to serving the world with its demands (and stop trying to pretend those countries just want to be like us), we aren't going to see a sustained recovery.

Some conservative commentators have said that the unemployed would more motivated to go out and get jobs if we removed their public assistance. Starving bellies are a great motivator, they say. Yeah, well I'd like to hear someone make the similar argument regarding those who control the much greater portion of nation's wealth that either one of us. When can we make these people to literally starve for greater exports?

[daenku32]

Uh, no. The trade deficit has absolutely nothing to do with the point the OP was attempting to make.

I think the explanation you are looking for to explain the trade deficit is the Comparative Advantage due to differences in the Cost of Labor.

Should have posted this earlier, but if you want to talk about Cost of Labor, you are talking about Absolute Advantage. Many foreign nations do not have the resources to produce the very goods they need, but we do. Hence, labor costs are irrelevant as long as we import from them the goods they have an advantage in, and therefore supply them with US dollars. They can then turn around and use the US dollars to directly buy from us.

[RhodyDave]

I think it's more a case of American ignorance leading to national introversion, than the other way round.

[ZirconBlue]

I could just quote the trade deficit to prove the point about lack of exports that are designed for the foreign markets.


That doesn't "prove" anything. Trade deficits are much more complex than that. In addition to the differences in labor rates cited earlier, there are other factors, including currency exchange rates.


My son is allergic to soy, and I have found it is in everything. Soy can be fractioned into oil, protein, flour and, significantly, lecithen. Soy oil is or may be in just about every bread in the US. If soy oil is the cheapest that day, it may be used in place of safflower, canola or other oils. I haven't bought bread in a supermarket for over a year because of soy oil.

In theory, refined soy oil would not contain any soy protein, and would, therefore, be safe for him to consume (allergies being triggered by proteins). Of course, in your position I wouldn't risk it. My daughter was allergic to milk. (Thankfully, she outgrew that allergy.) So, I know all about having to thoroughly examine ingredient lists, looking for problematic, yet sometimes non-obvious, ingredients.

[Corsair 115]

Correcting the problems of importation from places where the currency is manipulated (like China), or where child labor is used, may be helpful...


U.S. imports, January through July, 2010:

Billions Pct. of
Rank Nation Of Dollars Total
-------------------------------------
1 China 193.9 18.1%
2 Canada 159.9 15.0%
3 Mexico 128.8 12.0%
4 Japan 66.0 6.2%
5 Germany 45.7 4.3%
6 U.K. 28.3 2.6%
7 South Korea 26.8 2.5%
8 France 21.9 2.0%
9 Taiwan 19.5 1.8%
10 Venezuela 19.0 1.8%
-------------------------------------
All nations 1,069.6 100.0% Canada and Mexico combined account for 27% (more than one-quarter) of all U.S. imports. In that same January through July, 2010, time period, Canada and Mexico combined took in $232.6 billion worth of U.S. export goods, or 32.5% (nearly one-third).

Clearly, via FTA and later NAFTA, the U.S. has decided its two neighbouring nations are where it wants to put much of its trade efforts.

[MikeMangum]

If the business owners worked hard enough they could overcome the trade deficit. If the topic is comparative advantage, then we can easily overcome the trade deficits by pure will power alone. Apparently, US companies still lack that will power.

Comparative advantage can be overcome by willpower alone. Got it.

[Skeptic]

If the business owners worked hard enough they could overcome the trade deficit. If the topic is comparative advantage, then we can easily overcome the trade deficits by pure will power alone. Apparently, US companies still lack that will power.

Yes, because the only thing needed to solve a big international trade problem is some WILLPOWER! Or, more precisely, the WILL to listen to YOU!

Because this is such an original concept -- "try to export things people in other nations would like to buy". I'm sure nobody else in America ever thought of that.

Thanks for the insight.

[daenku32]

Comparative advantage can be overcome by willpower alone. Got it.

You got that wrong. Comparative advantage means that any trade deficit can be overcome with willpower alone. You simply have to figure out what you have a comparative advantage in. That takes willpower.

[daenku32]

Yes, because the only thing needed to solve a big international trade problem is some WILLPOWER! Or, more precisely, the WILL to listen to YOU!

Because this is such an original concept -- "try to export things people in other nations would like to buy". I'm sure nobody else in America ever thought of that.

Thanks for the insight.

They may have thought of it, but they are too lazy to do anything about it. They are living fat and happy as it is.

[ZirconBlue]

They may have thought of it, but they are too lazy to do anything about it. They are living fat and happy as it is.

Yeah. Corporate executives are in the habit of ignoring possible revenue streams. Especially during a Recession. :rolleyes: