Cheer up an atheist?

[Lithrael]

Hi! I'm basically a hardline skeptic looking for a little cheering up. Feel free to point me at other threads or sites where this is already covered.

I always used to be happy with the idea of the transience of life and of all things in general. The idea of death being the end of the ride didn't bother me, and really, I still am not troubled by the idea of my own eventual nonexistence. However, all of a sudden I'm worried about the eventual end of everything. In a sun-dying, universe-ending kind of way. I don't know why I'm ok with transience on the short term and not on the astronomically long term...

All my troubles started when I watched Barefoot Gen (http://5x5media.com/eye/film/barefoot.shtml), a brutally graphic anime movie about the bombing of Hiroshima, written and directed by a survivor and based on his experience. It's been weeks since I saw it and it's still haunting me. The sight, even in cartoon form, of such abject horror, knocked me out of my comfortable little world, I guess. Real human suffering hits me very hard.

I was hoping that some of the atheists around here could offer some words... What encourages you to see life as a beautiful and worthwhile thing? When a spiritual or religious person sees cruelty and death, they might be soothed by the idea that it will be made up for in the afterlife. What soothes you?

What are your thoughts about the end of all things? The idea that in the (ridiculously) long run, everything here will end when the sun gives up? And the end of the universe itself? I believe that nothing is forever, and that it's ok that way; that there *is* a hell of a lot of time on the table and it should be enjoyed - but I would like to hear some pretty or comforting words about it!

Alternately, if you're confident we can get off the planet and bust sideways into a new universe before the end of all things, let me know!

By the way, I'm not looking for religion or spiritualism. It'd be nice to have that sort of comfort but I've tried, and I just can't buy it. It can be nice on a social level but I just don't have what it takes to believe that cosmic dad/force will take care of me. And no snarky comments on 'what it takes,' please. ;)

[Marquis de Carabas]

Welcome Lithrael!

I'm afraid I can't offer any huge comfort. I kind of think that's something each person has to come up with on their own. I find comfort in the things I enjoy... watching grown men in skates chase rubber disks with sticks, spending time with my family, being corrected for shoddy reasoning here at the JREF and learning because of it. Does it make up for all the suffering in the world? Probably not. Does it make my specific corner of the world much more bearable? Indeed. So what soothes me? The thought that the suffering, however great, will end one day, and there are moments of happiness worth treasuring.

Try our Humor (http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=47) section. Always cheers me right up. :D

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Cheer up an atheist?-Lithrael




Adopt a kitten :) don't let anything get it or you'll be even sader.

[scribble]

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
Cheer up an atheist?-Lithrael




Adopt a kitten :) don't let anything get it or you'll be even sader.

This sounds stupid, but there's some truth to it.

A lot of the value I find in life has come from being able to see how a life is created, grows and develops, and learns, and becomes a being with it's own personality and life.

Getting a kitten is a fine way to have this experience. Your local shelter is a great place to go.

[Wrath of the Swarm]

There's always the Theory of Eternal Return. The universe will eventually cycle through every configuration available to it and return inevitably to the beginning. Time is an endless cycle, without true beginning or true end, only the passing from one state to the next.

You may wish to seek out the Dune novels by Frank Herbert, although I would stop after God Emperor of Dune, myself.

I also recommend So You Want to Be a Wizard, Deep Wizardry, and High Wizardry. All deal with the problems of entropy.

[evildave]

Watch 'Monty Python's Life Of Brian'. Or most anything that starts with 'Monty Python'.

That'll cheer you up.

And darn you, making me go through that link also made me order 'Barefoot Gen' (among other DVDs). Maybe now I can do a triple-feature of 'Barefoot Gen', then 'Grave of the Fireflies', followed up by the whole 'Now and Then, Here and There' series. Just for variety.

[Wrath of the Swarm]

Don't mention "Grave of the Fireflies" in a thread about combatting the blues! Argh!

"Akira" always cheers me up. The power... the sheer power....

[elliotfc]

There is much beauty in the world. Just have to look for it.

-Elliot

[TruthSeeker]

Poetry helps.

Here's one:

When Death Comes
Mary Oliver

When death comes
like the hungry bear in autumn;
when death comes and takes all the bright coins from his purse
to buy me, and snaps the purse shut;
when death comes
like the measles-pox;

when death comes
like an iceberg between the shoulder blades,

I want to step through the door full of curiosity, wondering:
what is it going to be like, that cottage of darkness?

And therefore I look upon everything
as a brotherhood and a sisterhood,
and I look upon time as no more than an idea,
and I consider eternity as another possibility,

and I think of each life as a flower, as common
as a field daisy, and as singular,

and each name a comfortable music in the mouth
tending as all music does, toward silence,

and each body a lion of courage, and something
precious to the earth.

When it's over, I want to say: all my life
I was a bride married to amazement.
I was the bridegroom, taking the world into my arms.

When it is over, I don't want to wonder
if I have made of my life something particular, and real.
I don't want to find myself sighing and frightened,
or full of argument.

I don't want to end up simply having visited this world.

[TruthSeeker]

Or this one:

I will not die an unlived life
by Dawna Markova

I will not die an unlived life
I will not live in fear of falling
Or of catching fire
I choose to inhabit my days
To allow my living to open me
Making me less afraid
More accessible
To loosen my heart
So that it becomes a wing, a torch, a promise
I choose to risk my significance.
To live so that that which comes to me as seed
Goes to the next as blossom
And that which comes to me as blossom
Goes on as fruit.

[Atlas]

Hi Lithrael,

It strange when, from a world of light, we stumble through a doorway to darkness. It's comforting to know that we are just as close to finding our way out again. I agree with you, it feels a bit cheerless at the end of the universe. It's a place to visit when you're strong, and even then, you don't really want to dwell there for long. It saps the soul, if I may use that word. To regain your perspective, you have to feed your soul.

I'm with EvilDave on this one. Laughter is the key. Once I was slapped with the wet fish of absurdity my perspective on the end of the universe brightened. It was a late hour of darkness and the only light in the world shone through my own TV. An old Laurel and Hardy movie came on and I was surprised to find myself laughing uncontrollably, tears streamed down my face. One sleeps deep and well after convulsive laughter. With dawn and a refreshed spirit the universe seems to be doing just fine again.

Anyway, to the extent that you can, ponder that which troubles only when your soul is strong. Whatever it is that makes you feel strong and alive, do that.

Then when you dance round that rim of Charybdis, know this. The bloodiest, ugliest, most horrible wars and the worst atrocities have been a strange leaven that did their part in raising up this modern world. The destructiveness of the universe is manifest in us, and like the dying nova casting off the stuff of new worlds, everything reforms and it does so with wonderful with new elements. We had no way of knowing this world would appear out of all that came before.

There are a trillion twists and turns left in this universe and it's minds before it's done. It may yet offer escape to new dimensions. In the meantime, know that your thoughts are the tiny ponderings of a creature of the earth. The final outcome is just as likely wonderful in a way we cannot imagine. Accept that with a smile, if you will, and dwell on beautiful things closer to home. Imagine perhaps each flower and each blossom as you run through a limitless meadow. Each one is a universe of it's own. A universe whose moment of time is not eternal but whose moment of beauty is.

[Fishboot]

If atheism weren't so reliably agonizing I think I'd have a lot more suspicion of the underlying motives. Luckily I have the crushing weight of moral responsibility, the impotent outrage over wickedness unpunished and virtue unrewarded, the hideous opacity of the future, the dull nausea as I see the base dynamics of humanity foster evil after evil... these things tell me that evidence and reason are real whores. Too bad they're always there in the morning when I wake up.

[iain]

Originally posted by Lithrael
Alternately, if you're confident we can get off the planet and bust sideways into a new universe before the end of all things, let me know!Since most species on Earth last for a few million years (I think around 5-6 million is normal) and the sun isn't due to roast us for a few more billion years, with the end of the universe (whatever that might be) some time after that, I can't imagine that either humans or anything remotely like us will still be around to experience these things.

It doesn't really bother me that life on Earth has regularly come close to being wiped out every few hundred million years - it's the way it goes.

What does fill me with a sense of awe is the ability life has to cling on and reassert itself despite all the odds. Giant meteor strike? No problem - back on track in a million years. Volcanic activity? Bring it on.

If you're really concerned about the end of the Universe, bear in mind that we have no reason to think that what we perceive as the Universe is really all there is. Someone somewhere will probably still be around after our universe is long gone.

[Humphreys]

Originally posted by Lithrael
I was hoping that some of the atheists around here could offer some words... What encourages you to see life as a beautiful and worthwhile thing? When a spiritual or religious person sees cruelty and death, they might be soothed by the idea that it will be made up for in the afterlife. What soothes you?

I really try not to think about it. What use does it do? It's all screwed up and everyone is going to die...so what?

I'm off to go do stuff and have fun why I have the chance.

Seriously, just laugh about it and enjoy yourself. Laugh like a hysterical madman if you have to.

I like to use laughter as a defense mechanism.

[Humphreys]

Look, I'm shouting obscenities and banging my face into the desk right now. Can I promise it would make you feel better to do the same?

No, I can't. But why not do it anyway? It surely can't help to try.

Say, you could always visit "The restaurant at the end of the Universe", when the time comes.

[Lithrael]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts & ideas! I feel much better for having read them. It's easy to feel more alone than I really am, since I don't know anyone around here I can talk to about my doubts in a way that's.. er.. useful to me. It's unbelievably heartening just to hear from people with ideas about the world that are closer to mine. Thank you! I am officially cheered up. :D