Post WWII insurgent movements?

[Correa Neto]

Are there any records of nazi or facist guerrilla or insurgents in Germany, Italy after the end of WWII?
Any similar movement happened in occupied Japan?

If the answer is "no" would anyone risk a guess on the reasons?

No, I am not trolling neither making any intentional statement regarding current Iraq situation. Its just curiosity and lack of information.

[geni]

There were a few in Germany. I don't think they were were very sigtnificant. They managed a few assinations but thats about it as far as I know.

[LW]

Originally posted by Correa Neto
Are there any records of nazi or facist guerrilla or insurgents in Germany, Italy after the end of WWII?

Hitler had a guerilla program called Werwolf. The idea was that small cells would conduct terrorist strikes in areas occupied by the Allies. However, that program sizzled. In the end only few cells ever tried to actually do anything and I'm not certain if there was even one succesful attack.

In the end, the only areas with significant after-war resistance movements happened in areas occupied by the Red Army. I think that some Estonian and Ukrainian nationalist groups survived well into 50s and some individuals perhaps into 60s.

If the answer is "no" would anyone risk a guess on the reasons?

My guess is that Germany was so throughly beaten that everyone saw that resistance was pointless.

[Crossbow]

Thanks LW! I was going to mention the 'Werewolves' as well, but you got in there first with an excellent answer.

Anyway, if you ask me, after the Hitler suicide and how Emperor Hirito (I think that is spelled right) publicly surrendered, then there were very few who were so seriously devoted to their respective causes that they would fight on after they so badly lost the war.

P.S.: Fascism was never that popular in Italy to begin with, so I expect that is why there was very little post-war resistance there.

[Ian Osborne]

Originally posted by LW
My guess is that Germany was so throughly beaten that everyone saw that resistance was pointless.

They must've been pretty tired of fighting after a five-year war too. Plus there was no chance of foreigners coming over the boarder to attack the allies. Anyone fanatical enough to do so would've voluntarily joined the war long before, assuming their home country wasn't involved in it anyway...

[Flo]

Originally posted by Crossbow
Thanks LW! I was going to mention the 'Werewolves' as well, but you got in there first with an excellent answer.

Anyway, if you ask me, after the Hitler suicide and how Emperor Hirito (I think that is spelled right) publicly surrendered, then there were very few who were so seriously devoted to their respective causes that they would fight on after they so badly lost the war.

P.S.: Fascism was never that popular in Italy to begin with, so I expect that is why there was very little post-war resistance there.


Hirohito's speech prevented mostly suicides among the population and what remained of the military on the main island. The Japanese were homeless, starving, and lacked weapons to the extent that many families didn't even have kitchen knives left.

[Chaos]

From what I have heard, the Werewolf guerilla organization was more myth than reality.

The Soviets imprisoned a lot of people because they were "suspected" Werewolf terrorist - something like being expected to turn in lots of terrorists, but since there were none, they just locked people up and fabricated charges...

And, no, this is not meant to be a subtle hint at the USA post-9/11 - unless you want it to...


By the way, in one newsmagazine (TIME or Newsweek) article comparing post-WW2 Germany and post-war Iraq, it said that US post-war combat fatalities were something like 40-50 men.

They were not exactly guerilla groups, but some isolated Japanese soldiers or small groups of soldiers in the Philippines and elsewhere continued fighting for a long time - one soldier fought until sometime in the 1970´s, when the Japanese government tracked down his former commanding officer and flew him there to order him to surrender.

[LW]

Originally posted by Chaos

The Soviets imprisoned a lot of people because they were "suspected" Werewolf terrorist - something like being expected to turn in lots of terrorists, but since there were none, they just locked people up and fabricated charges...

A particularly nasty thing was how Soviets handled Polish Armija Krajowa. It was an anti-German resistance movement that was not under Soviet control. When the Red Army started to advance into Poland, AK units joined the forces with it and fought in a several joint battles against Germans. However, Soviets dubbed the movement as an anti-Soviet resistance movement, and imprisoned its members after a few battles. Armija Krajowa had never been particularly pro-Soviet organization, but that betrayal made it very quickly openly anti-Soviet. [And thus confirming in the eyes of Soviet high command the original decision to hold them as enemies.]

They were not exactly guerilla groups, but some isolated Japanese soldiers or small groups of soldiers in the Philippines and elsewhere continued fighting for a long time - one soldier fought until sometime in the 1970´s, when the Japanese government tracked down his former commanding officer and flew him there to order him to surrender.

I have forgotten the name of the last Japanese soldier, but he didn't exactly fight alone. He was a member of a small group but the other members died through the years. I think that in the end he was alone only for a year or so after his final companion died.

[crimresearch]

Last I checked, WWII was a world war fought on a number of fronts, by multiple participant nations, although I'm sure with enough sophistry, someone on the forum will be able to insist that it only involved US imperialist aggression against poor defenseless and peaceful Germany.

For a perspective on how defeated armies continued to resist after the formal cessation of hostilities, one could look at sites such as:

http://www.wanpela.com/holdouts/registry.html

Paul

[richardm]

Originally posted by Chaos
From what I have heard, the Werewolf guerilla organization was more myth than reality.


It is possible that such an organisation was in place at one point, though. It's recently been disclosed that the British had set up just such an organisation in towns and villages across Britain, in case of invasion. It seems likely that the Germans would do something similar.

It can only be assumed that by the time push came to shove in Germany, there didn't seem much point.

[Crossbow]

For those interested, one may want to read the below article which was written in regards to the US occupation of Iraq: but it does have some good data about the 'Werewolves' all the same.

Condi's Phony History
http://slate.msn.com/id/2087768/

...

In practice, Werwolf amounted to next to nothing. The mayor of Aachen was assassinated on March 25, 1945, on Himmler's orders. This was not a nice thing to do, but it happened before the May 7 Nazi surrender at Reims. It's hardly surprising that Berlin sought to undermine the American occupation before the war was over. And as the U.S. Army's official history, The U.S. Army in the Occupation of Germany 1944-1946, points out, the killing was "probably the Werwolf's most sensational achievement."

...

[Correa Neto]

Thanks for the info, guys.

Crossbow and Flo,

Hitler´s suicidal and Hiroito´s surrender surely may have been critical factors undermining post-war guerrilla / terrorist groups. I had not considered this option. Since the ideology needed these key figures, as soon as they admitted defeat, there was very little incentive left for resistance.

LW and Ian,

I had considered the possibility that the most fanatic ones were killed, tired or wounded in the war. However, I really expected a bit more terrorist acts. Specially when I remember for how long japanese kept fighting on some places.

External support, material and personel, also seems to have been a key issue. French resistance and the Partisans movments had it. Any eventual terrorist group in post-war Germany and Japan most likely had none or very little.

It surprises me how regimes that were supported by their people quickly lost support. On a second tought, actually I should not be surprised. Governments can loose support faster then they win. But it seems that religions can raise more fanatic followers then ideologies.

So, perhaps we can stay with the following:
- Key figures for the regime's ideology surrendered;
- Absence of external support;
- Resistance would be created by ideological reasons and not religion;
- The allied were not seem as conquerors, but as liberators for most of the people. This could be valid for Italy, since Mussolini lost a lot of support, but I´m not really sure of how much popular support Hitler had in Germany at the war´s latest years.
- The people were war-weary, they just wanted the war to end and have their lives back to normal (I´m not sure if this one would be a major issue when it comes to fanatics).

Each of the above would have different weights on Germany, Italy and Japan.

I wasn´t even thinking of Rice´s and Rumsfeld´s comparsions between Iraq and Germany. Actually I did not even remebered them (thanks for the ears up)... But, since the issue was raised...

Am I right to think that in tactical terms only, without making any ideological comparsion between nazi Germany and USA, French resistance may be a better comparsion to Iraq? In both cases there is external support and more motivation for an armed resistance.

[shemp]

Originally posted by Crossbow
For those interested, one may want to read the below article which was written in regards to the US occupation of Iraq: but it does have some good data about the 'Werewolves' all the same.

Condi's Phony History
http://slate.msn.com/id/2087768/

...

In practice, Werwolf amounted to next to nothing. The mayor of Aachen was assassinated on March 25, 1945, on Himmler's orders. This was not a nice thing to do, but it happened before the May 7 Nazi surrender at Reims. It's hardly surprising that Berlin sought to undermine the American occupation before the war was over. And as the U.S. Army's official history, The U.S. Army in the Occupation of Germany 1944-1946, points out, the killing was "probably the Werwolf's most sensational achievement."


...

Nice link Crossbow. If Condi and Rummy really believe this stuff, it's frightening. It's like Reagan's inability to differentiate between WWII facts and WWII movies. Scary that people like this are in positions of power.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Correa Neto
Am I right to think that in tactical terms only, without making any ideological comparsion between nazi Germany and USA,

Now you're taking all the fun out of it.