Tom Clancy can't write

[a_unique_person]

I have never read one of his books, and found myself on a couch next to one the other day, so I dragged out "Rainbow Six" and started reading.

What a maroon. The opening chapter must have used every cliche in the book of action/thriller writing. I felt no desire to read any further, or to read any one of his other books.

[JesFine]

I met him when about 12 years ago and it turns out he is a complete airhose too. So in case you were thinking you should give him a second chance if he is a nice guy, you shouldn't.

[WanderingKnight]

In Clancy's defense, Rainbow Six is probably near the bottom of any list of his work.

If you give him another chance, some of the early Jack Ryn books are far, far superior. The Hunt for Red October, Clear and Present Danger and The Sum of All Fears are My personal favorites, and many others would probably suggest The Cardinal of the Kremlin.

For non-Ryan books, Red Storm Rising is probabaly the best cold-war era depiction of a possible Non-nuclear exchange World War III as I've read.

[scribble]

Pulp fiction (anything you can buy at the checkout counter of the supermarket, by my definition) is always built on stereotypes and cliches. That's why it's so successful - it doesn't challenge anyone's thinking and it delivers on a tried and true formula.

[Ranb]

Originally posted by WanderingKnight
.........If you give him another chance, some of the early Jack Ryn books are far, far superior. ............

I have to agree that some parts of some of his books are entertaining. But as a former sub Sailor, reading about his subs and their crews is like reading a soap opera script. I usually skip over anything to do about subs in his books; too boring.

Ranb

[Hutch]

Originally posted by WanderingKnight
If you give him another chance, some of the early Jack Ryn books are far, far superior. The Hunt for Red October, Clear and Present Danger and The Sum of All Fears are My personal favorites, and many others would probably suggest The Cardinal of the Kremlin.

Concur, his last couple of Jack Ryan books were pretty much copies of each other, just exchanging China for Iran/Iraq. I never did get all the way through the last one (The Dragon and the Bear). Still, his knowledge of current US Military weaponry is pretty good and he can paint a battle scene fairly well.

[fishbob]

I can't remember which Clancy book, but it annoyed the cr!!p out of me - when he dragged on for several pages about the hangover resulting from the bad personnal life that caused the factory worker to make a less than perfect bolt which failed to hold some part of the the helicopter on at some critical time so that some plot point could be advanced.

[Giz]

I think his biggest flaw as an author (and he has a few) is where he tries to portray characters from different cultures. His idea of cultural differences seems to be that the characters order warm ale(if English), or saki (if Japanese) rather than having a beer.

Bit of a problem for an author specialising in international thrillers.

[Giz]

And another thing...

Why start a thread on Tom Clancy in the Literature forum!?

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Giz
And another thing...

Why start a thread on Tom Clancy in the Literature forum!?

Aaah...the high art of subtle literary criticism... :)

[Regnad Kcin]

Originally posted by Ranb
I have to agree that some parts of some of his books are entertaining. But as a former sub Sailor, reading about his subs and their crews is like reading a soap opera script. I usually skip over anything to do about subs in his books; too boring.An old friend of mine (who I haven't seen in ages) was Chief of the Boat for many years. At the time The Hunt for Red October was on the big screen he dismissed it as being so inaccurate a picture of life aboard a sub as to be, well, bad. Loved Das Boot though.

Come to think of it, I have another friend who is an attorney in the service, and you don't want to get him started on what he thinks about A Few Good Men.

[LW]

Originally posted by WanderingKnight

If you give him another chance, some of the early Jack Ryan books are far, far superior.

I used to like Clancy's books, up till Clear and Present Danger. I was pretty disappointed with it but continued with The Sum of All Fears that finally hit the bottom. After that I've read only Debt of Honor and that because it was the only book available at the time.

Now, I don't think I'll pick up any of his books anymore.

[Soapy Sam]

To be fair, he's better than Clive Cussler.

[ASRomatifoso]

Originally posted by JesFine
I met him when about 12 years ago and it turns out he is a complete airhose too. So in case you were thinking you should give him a second chance if he is a nice guy, you shouldn't.

Totally agree. I spoke to him on the phone about 10 years ago when he called for the CO of the sub I was stationed on at the time. I answered the phone with my usual spiel, ending with "May I ask who's calling, please"?

He says, "This is TOM CLANCY, with such an air of self-importance and smugness that it made me ill. I said, "I'm sorry, your name again, please". And he said it a little louder and enunciated a little more painfully this time, so I would realize that this was the huge literary star, TOM CLANCY on the phone and not just some schmucky insurance salesman (one and the same in this case:))

So, yeah, horrible writer, and based on my admittedly limited knowledge of him, not a person I would want to know.

[Chaos]

Originally posted by ASRomatifoso


He says, "This is TOM CLANCY, with such an air of self-importance and smugness that it made me ill. I said, "I'm sorry, your name again, please". And he said it a little louder and enunciated a little more painfully this time, so I would realize that this was the huge literary star, TOM CLANCY on the phone and not just some schmucky insurance salesman (one and the same in this case:))


So it is true that he was originally an insurance salesman?

Oh, my...

On behalf of the rest of the insurance industry, I would like to make it clear that insurance salesmen like this one have NOTHING to do with REAL insurance people like myself or Suezoled. Or even insurance broker employees like Graham.

[WanderingKnight]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
To be fair, he's better than Clive Cussler.

If I was to admit to being a fan of both authors, would that make me a bad person?

I like them for different reasons.... Cussler is a great "popcorn" author.... his books don't have a shred of believeability, but have always been a fun read....sort of a guilty pleasure like cheesy movies.

[Soapy Sam]

Medic! Feng Shui that man's bookcase, NOW!

[Lemastre]

Authors of successful series feel compelled to continue doing the successful thing. Eventually they may get as bored with it as the readers, but their publishers and their lifestyles keep them cranking away. Some of them venture into different genres, but their fans are offended, so it often fails. And some of them aren't talented enough to change course very successfully even if they wanted to.

[Iconoclast]

Originally posted by Regnad Kcin
I have another friend who is an attorney in the service, and you don't want to get him started on what he thinks about A Few Good Men.
Is that because...... we can't handle the truth?

[varwoche]

And the pope is catholic.

[tim]

Originally posted by varwoche
And the pope is catholic.

HE IS? OMG! :eek:

WanderingKnight? quote - "If I was to admit to being a fan of both authors, would that make me a bad person?" - end quote.
Well, I'm sorry, but yes, it would. If you WERE to admit it the forum rules require you have your eyes removed with red hot pincers for reading it, your tongue likewise for admitting it, and your hands cut off with a blunt hacksaw for holding the offending books. In the past transgressors also had their brains removed until a scientific paper from Mr Randi pointed out that in these cases the sinner's brain was already destroyed by reading the "books".
Now what where you about to say?

[Jaan]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
To be fair, he's better than Clive Cussler.

Clive Cussler is totally different. I doubt he's trying to be serious, and he's fun at times. I love how he uses rare cars (Stutz Bearcat) in his books for example. I put him in the same category as the Destroyer books ... remember the movie Remo Williams, The Adventure Begins? Same kind of cheezy over the top fun.

[jcon96]

I liked Clancy much more while I was in the service,but to be honest,in hindsight,he paints a much more gritty,hard charging life than it really was.We did not always go whistling down to a drop zone,K-Bar in our teeth and to belts of ammo slung over our shoulders...:)

[Ed]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I have never read one of his books, and found myself on a couch next to one the other day, so I dragged out "Rainbow Six" and started reading.

What a maroon. The opening chapter must have used every cliche in the book of action/thriller writing. I felt no desire to read any further, or to read any one of his other books.

Well, he could write one book: He did. The problem is that he keeps writing the same one over and over and over ...... Stephen King is sorta the same.

[Giz]

Originally posted by Ed


Well, he could write one book: He did. The problem is that he keeps writing the same one over and over and over ...... Stephen King is sorta the same.

Be fair, they say that everyone has one good novel in them. Tom Clancy just hasn't found his yet...

[Ed]

Originally posted by Giz


Be fair, they say that everyone has one good novel in them. Tom Clancy just hasn't found his yet...


:D

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Giz


Be fair, they say that everyone has one good novel in them. Tom Clancy just hasn't found his yet...

I think he has taken his "one good novel apart" and puts bits and pieces of it in every novel he wrote. You might call it "homeopathic writing quality". :D

[Krazy Miller]

I couldn't finish even 20 pages of RAINBOW SIX. It starts out on a plane right?

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by fishbob
I can't remember which Clancy book, but it annoyed the cr!!p out of me - when he dragged on for several pages about the hangover resulting from the bad personnal life that caused the factory worker to make a less than perfect bolt which failed to hold some part of the the helicopter on at some critical time so that some plot point could be advanced.

Lol! That's Tom Clancy!

I personally like Tom Clancy, even though I haven't read one of his books in about a half-dozen years. You're right, though. He does go into excruciating detail.

[Tez]

At least Cussler spends a lot of his money on something worthwhile - the real NUMA - rather than buying football teams or funding the GOP...

[rikzilla]

Well to be fair, "Red Storm Rising" came out when I was stationed in West Germany in the early 80's and it was a riveting read. I was working commo for 11th ACR @ Fulda and Clancy got everything in 11th ACR's order of battle just right. Since he started out so well I've ended up reading every book he writes. My favorite of all his novels would have to be "Cardinal of the Kremlin". By the time "Sum of all fears" came out he was just writing from a formula. I continued to read his books because, like Cussler's entertaining nonsense, he was still somewhat entertaining. Sadly I must agree with AUP's opinion of "Rainbow Six" it was bad...really bad....and I WAS a fan!

Stay well away from his latest, "The Teeth of the Tiger"...it was almost too embarassing to read. Of course, I'd love to see Al Qaeda, etc, dealt with with just that sort of "deniable extreme prejudice"...but c'mon! I mean really, he out Cusslers Cussler with that one!

Sadly, Stephen King has gone the same route. When an author can guarantee sales just by putting his name on a book his work is bound to suffer. Currently I'm reading through the epic historical novels of Sharon Kay Penman (http://www.sharonkaypenman.com/) a lady who's success has not as yet damaged her craft.

-z

[Chaos]

Originally posted by rikzilla
Well to be fair, "Red Storm Rising" came out when I was stationed in West Germany in the early 80's and it was a riveting read. I was working commo for 11th ACR @ Fulda and Clancy got everything in 11th ACR's order of battle just right.

He made several mistakes concerning the Germans there, however. For example, giving police officers military ranks. I think it is that way in America, but not here; our police has more bureaucratic-sounding names, that would translate as constable, inspector and such.
But you´re right, it is riveting. I can still remember the latest years of the Cold War, (I was born in ´77) and "the Russians have reached the outskirts of Hannover" has a more imminent meaning for me than for most Americans...

[Outcast]

Originally posted by Regnad Kcin
An old friend of mine (who I haven't seen in ages) was Chief of the Boat for many years. At the time The Hunt for Red October was on the big screen he dismissed it as being so inaccurate a picture of life aboard a sub as to be, well, bad. Loved Das Boot though.

Come to think of it, I have another friend who is an attorney in the service, and you don't want to get him started on what he thinks about A Few Good Men. Your friend was right about The Hunt for Red October. You are right about Das Boot. Hollywood could never make a movie like that. Ever see Grey Lady Down? Ask your friend the COB if he ever saw it. Worst sub movie ever made. Ever see Down Periscope with Kelsey Grammer? Great movie, what it lacked in accuracy it more than made up for with humor and catching the spirit of the sub service.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I have never read one of his books, and found myself on a couch next to one the other day, so I dragged out "Rainbow Six" and started reading.

What a maroon. The opening chapter must have used every cliche in the book of action/thriller writing. I felt no desire to read any further, or to read any one of his other books.

I got this same exact impression from another one of his books. I can't remember which one.

Stephen King usually gives me the same feeling. Except King can be quite creative at times. When he focuses on his characters, he does much better.

I've been reading the Dark Tower series. Book 4 (Wizard and Glass) was an excellent book. The others, so far, have been passable.

[TillEulenspiegel]

His work became product. Once that threshold is breached you can be pretty sure you will get a McDonald's offering , regardless of the area of endeavor.

[Kilted_Canuck]

Umm, I liked Rainbow Six...the first time I read it (5 or so years ago). I hadn't read much...adult fiction. I was still into cheesy, and I couldn't pick out a cliche. I tried reading it again a few months ago, but couldn't get past the first chapter (for obvious reasons).

I'm glad he wrote it, the Rainbow Six games are awesome.

[tim]

I think it's sort of like brain candy. You don't have to think to read his stuff. Take it on holiday when you want to relax. Then leave it there. :D :D :D

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I have never read one of his books, and found myself on a couch next to one the other day, so I dragged out "Rainbow Six" and started reading.

What a maroon. The opening chapter must have used every cliche in the book of action/thriller writing. I felt no desire to read any further, or to read any one of his other books.

I heard Clancy admitting on a radio interview that Rainbow Six was just a novelization of a computer game. They wanted something Clanciesque to give gamers and the book was there to promote the software. The entire book reads just like a game with each chapter being an individual mission with few, if any, ties to the next adventure. It's very choppy and hard to read, I've never managed to finish it and I'm a Clancy fan.

Originally posted by fishbob
I can't remember which Clancy book, but it annoyed the cr!!p out of me - when he dragged on for several pages about the hangover resulting from the bad personnal life that caused the factory worker to make a less than perfect bolt which failed to hold some part of the the helicopter on at some critical time so that some plot point could be advanced.

Actually, that's always been one of the reasons I like Clancy. I like that he shows that the world is made up of people, each individual in their own right and each affecting those around them in unknown and unforeseen ways.

[bignickel]

Red Storm Rising was my first Clancy book, and IMHO, his best.

It was just straight ahead battles - he didn't have to have all of the constant character dialogue that screws up his other books (cuz he's so lousy at it). He had played out some of the battles with Harpoon (the tactical naval game (Avalon Hill, I think)), and I loved his descriptions of warfare.

I read his other books after that. By the time he had an assistant National Security Advisor (or CIA analyst, or whatever he was at the time) interupt a private call between the President of the United States and the President of Russia on the red phone... and not go to prison for life (because he saved the world, natch)... bleh.

Now, a computer gaming magazine printed a chapter from Rainbow 6 (terrorists on the airline), and I was intrigued. I'd been playing CS for awhile, so it sounded interesting. My boss had read the book, so I asked him about it.

Guh. Spoilers follow:
















ENVIRONMENTALISTS are the evil terrorists?

Yeesh. As if they had ANY of the kind of money or organization to pull off anything.

Post-WTC, the whole premise of the terrorists being environmentalists just comes across as so incredibly naive, especially since at the time the book was being written, Al Queda had been carrying out attacks here and there. Including one plot which involved hijacking a French airplane and turning it into a missle....

[Outcast]

Originally posted by bignickel

ENVIRONMENTALISTS are the evil terrorists?

Yeesh. As if they had ANY of the kind of money or organization to pull off anything.

Pasadena Star-News, CA - Mar 29, 2004
LOS ANGELES -- Accused ecoterrorist Bill Cottrell pleaded not guilty Monday to charges he burned and defaced more than 100 SUVs last summer in an environmental ... San Diego Union Tribune, CA - Mar 15, 2004
By Typh Tucker. PORTLAND, Ore. – A fugitive radical environmentalist wanted in Oregon for setting fire to logging and cement trucks ... Katu.com, OR - Mar 15, 2004
... officials say Scarpitti has had connections with the Earth Liberation Front, a loose group of activists that the FBI has classified as an ecoterrorist group. .. Portland Tribune, OR - Mar 26, 2004
A group of Portland activists is passing the hat for former congressional candidate and accused ecoterrorist Tre Arrow, who was nabbed by Canadian police ...
Ecoterrorist (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ecoterrorist)
The list is endless.

[bangdazap]

Originally posted by Outcast


Ecoterrorist (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ecoterrorist)
The list is endless.
Yes, and they've killed more americans than bin Laden.

[BillyTK]

Tom Clancy can't write? Well he's not raking it in from moonlighting as a freelance plumber, that's for sure! And I wouldn't mind a bob or two from what he is raking in–I just wouldn't spend a single penny of it on any of his books. Which reminds me–has anyone read Tom Clancy's Netforce? I saw the tv movie adaption and wondered if its general cluelessness about everything was the result of bad editing, or Tom Clancy's writing?

[Chaos]

I think I read two of the netforce novels.

I say "I think" because I am doing my best to forget the experience. :(

[Giz]

Originally posted by Chaos
I think I read two of the netforce novels.

I say "I think" because I am doing my best to forget the experience. :(

Two! Did you not spot when one plot ended and the next began!?

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Giz


Two! Did you not spot when one plot ended and the next began!?

You mean Clancy's got more than one plot?

[bignickel]

Originally posted by Outcast

Ecoterrorist (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ecoterrorist)
The list is endless.

Burning SUVs and spiking trees...

compared to Clancy's 'ecoterrorists' who have:
1. organized silent network with
2. lots of money to buy
3. lots of white vans to set up
4. fake program to feed vagrants and
5. labratories to develop virus and hire
6. geneticist/biologists to develop super-virus (or whatever)
etc etc etc

You know, I think the other day I heard that some splinter group of Greenpeace had been working on their Death Ray with the help of renegade scientist Dr. X.

If only we'd paid attention when he screamed at the last scientific conference "Fools! I'll show you all!"

I just hope they don't hook up with the MIB. With their huge underground city under Area 51. That would certainly bite.