Democrats, where is the Liberal?

[Dancing David]

I consider myself a MOR liberal, and I guess that makes me a bomb throwing anarchist !

I ask the following, why have none of the democratic candidate come out in support of gay marriage? It really bothers me that all the dems are so scared of the issue! It makes me think that they are not liberals at all.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Dancing David
I consider myself a MOR liberal, and I guess that makes me a bomb throwing anarchist !

I ask the following, why have none of the democratic candidate come out in support of gay marriage? It really bothers me that all the dems are so scared of the issue! It makes me think that they are not liberals at all.

Because they want to be elected.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Dancing David
I consider myself a MOR liberal, and I guess that makes me a bomb throwing anarchist !

I ask the following, why have none of the democratic candidate come out in support of gay marriage? It really bothers me that all the dems are so scared of the issue! It makes me think that they are not liberals at all. THIS is the issue that makes you think that they aren't liberal?!? LOL!!

Remember, though...the Republicans labeled Bill Clinton a "liberal", so their definition is obviously screwed all to hell.

[Ignatius]

Political reality (what Grammatron said). Gay marriage is not a popular idea with the majority of the country right now. If a candidate were to speak out for gay marriage they would be playing right into the Republicans hands.

Rightly or wrongly "liberal" has become a dirty word. Democrats don't want Reagan vs. Mondale again. It is more important to win the election that to take a principled stand on one issue that you know is going to hurt you more than it helps. This is the same reason that Republicans don't run a presidential candidate that promises to overturn Roe v. Wade.

Of course, maybe they honestly don't believe gays should have the right to marry. My point it that even if they did, it probably isn't something they could win on.

[corplinx]

The real liberal just called it quits today.

[Ignatius]

Originally posted by corplinx
The real liberal just called it quits today.

Funny you mention that. I remember either reading an article or hearing about Howard Dean being basically having little choice but to sign some pro gay marraige thing back in Vermont. They quoted him as grumbling something about, "I certainly don't like it any more than the rest of you".

I can't seem to find anything about it now. He ran his campaign as being a liberal because it was working. My understanding was that he was a fairly moderate to conservative Democrat when he was Governer.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Ignatius


Funny you mention that. I remember either reading an article or hearing about Howard Dean being basically having little choice but to sign some pro gay marraige thing back in Vermont. They quoted him as grumbling something about, "I certainly don't like it any more than the rest of you".

I can't seem to find anything about it now. He ran his campaign as being a liberal because it was working. My understanding was that he was a fairly moderate to conservative Democrat when he was Governer. How do you balance that with the reports that he was "radically liberal"?

[Ignatius]

Originally posted by Zero
How do you balance that with the reports that he was "radically liberal"?

I think that he probably started running a little more to the left than he normally would have when doing so seemed to be working for him. I think that him taking an early stance against the Iraq war was what probably started the buzz about him being "radically liberal".
(I could just be wrong about my characterization of him as a right-leaning governer. I just remember hearing a couple of times on NPR)

[Clancie]

Dancing David,

Kucinich is for it.

Kucinich on Gay Rights (http://www.kucinich.us/issues/gayrights.php)

[Ignatius]

A quick google search on "conservative Governer Howard Dean" gave me this:

tompaine.com (http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9466)

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean has been portrayed by his Democratic presidential opponents as a man who is too angry, too loud and too Liberal. But according to a new book by the reporters who covered his administration, Dean's fiscal record and policies were those of a textbook conservative—and Dean would be proud to say so.
...
What Dean's speeches and Web site don't say, however, is that the architect of Dean's economic record was Richard Snelling, a socially liberal, fiscally conservative governor who publicly criticized the Reagan administration's deficit-creating policies in the mid-1980s—and was duly ostracized by the Reagan administration for doing so.

"He [Dean] didn't build the ship, but he was its captain," said William Gilbert, who was Snelling's longtime top aide as state Secretary of Administration. "He certainly was at odds with the more Liberal members of his own party. That's on the record. The fights he had with them were very entertaining."

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Grammatron


Because they want to be elected.

But *gosh* I thought people ran on the issues!

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Zero
THIS is the issue that makes you think that they aren't liberal?!? LOL!!

Remember, though...the Republicans labeled Bill Clinton a "liberal", so their definition is obviously screwed all to hell.

Oh, I would say that this issue is about the most harmless I can think of, there are plenty more... but most of them cross the line into the 'american core values'.

I think I would start with open bidding on the parts for military manufacture, doing away with almost all corporate subsidies, a flat tax, and tightening the EPA's control of emissions...

[Dancing David]

Well, when anyone who isn't a right wing nut case gets called liberal....

:)

[rustypouch]

Since when are there any liberals in mainstream American politics?

Last time I checked there was one right wing party and one extreme right wing party.

[BTox]

Originally posted by Dancing David
I ask the following, why have none of the democratic candidate come out in support of gay marriage? It really bothers me that all the dems are so scared of the issue! It makes me think that they are not liberals at all.

If this issue is the definition of a liberal then I am one - yikes!

[Zero]

Originally posted by Ignatius


I think that he probably started running a little more to the left than he normally would have when doing so seemed to be working for him. I think that him taking an early stance against the Iraq war was what probably started the buzz about him being "radically liberal".
(I could just be wrong about my characterization of him as a right-leaning governer. I just remember hearing a couple of times on NPR) His record, except on a few social issues, is remarkably moderate-to-right.

[corplinx]

I guess it depends on your definition of liberal. If by liberal you mean progressive, then yes, there is no liberal.

If by liberal you mean leftist/socialist, then all of the candidates fit the bill.

[Solitaire]

Originally posted by Dancing David
But *gosh* I thought people ran on the issues!
This is a popular delusion.
Right now it's more along the lines of who can beat Bush by being electable.
That means, no issues, no past history, and lots of negative ads.

P.S Dean Calls It Quits. (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7476C742-4043-46D6-A856-BD83FCBB58DB.htm) As a deanie-baby, I'm sorry to report this.

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by corplinx
I guess it depends on your definition of liberal. If by liberal you mean progressive, then yes, there is no liberal.

If by liberal you mean leftist/socialist, then all of the candidates fit the bill.

As someone who used to call myself a socialist, until I realized that i supported too many free market ideas, now I am a recovering socialist/communist, I wonder what you see as left leaning socialism in the Dems.

They are all weak on the enviroment,weak on educaton, weak on health care, none of them wants to tax corporations, tighten the SEC or anything I see as 'socialist'.

Yeah, the progessives bit the dust in the twenties.

[Zero]

Originally posted by corplinx
I guess it depends on your definition of liberal. If by liberal you mean progressive, then yes, there is no liberal.

If by liberal you mean leftist/socialist, then all of the candidates fit the bill. LOL!!!!

[Chaos]

Originally posted by rustypouch
Since when are there any liberals in mainstream American politics?

Last time I checked there was one right wing party and one extreme right wing party.

Hear, hear!

[Tony]

Originally posted by rustypouch
Since when are there any liberals in mainstream American politics?

Last time I checked there was one right wing party and one extreme right wing party.

Are you saying that, by default, the "right-wing" can't be liberal?

[Dancing David]

Great question!

The line has become mucked up,

there are social conservatives who propose less societal change as engineered by the goverment
there are fiscal conservatives who would like to spend less money

there are conservatives who support the agenda of the religous right :religous conservatives

there are conservatives who believe in social welfare: confued conservatives!

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by Dancing David
Great question!

The line has become mucked up,

there are social conservatives who propose less societal change as engineered by the goverment
there are fiscal conservatives who would like to spend less money

there are conservatives who support the agenda of the religous right :religous conservatives

there are conservatives who believe in social welfare: confued conservatives!

What about us godless (http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/library/scruton1.html) conservative-libertarians?

[Ignatius]

Originally posted by Kodiak


What about us godless (http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/library/scruton1.html) conservative-libertarians?

I'll admit that you threw a wrench in my happy little preconceived notions about conservatives when I first came here. I think that I have since had to adjust my views accordingly. Thanks.

(although your type is the exception, not the rule)

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by Ignatius


I'll admit that you threw a wrench in my happy little preconceived notions about conservatives when I first came here. I think that I have since had to adjust my views accordingly. Thanks.

(although your type is the exception, not the rule)

Wow! That's the nicest compliment I've received in quite a long time. I'm honored. :)

[Ignatius]

Originally posted by Kodiak


Wow! That's the nicest compliment I've received in quite a long time. I'm honored. :)

Well it's true so I had no problem saying it.
(just don't EVER take it easy on me because of it);)

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by Ignatius


Well it's true so I had no problem saying it.
(just don't EVER take it easy on me because of it);)

I've got an image to live up to now!

If anything, I'll be harder on you than everyone else! ;)