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svero
19th February 2004, 11:40 AM
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-02/20/content_1322785.htm

"WASHINGTON, Feb. 19 (Xinhuanet) -- Over 60 influential scientists have accused the Bush administration of systematically distorting scientific facts to serve its policy goals on the environment, health, biomedical research and nuclear weaponry at home and abroad, The New York Times reported Thursday."

WildCat
19th February 2004, 11:59 AM
Next thing you know, someone will accuse product liability lawyers of misusing science as well. ;)

Upchurch
19th February 2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by svero
"Over 60 influential scientists have accused the Bush administration of systematically distorting scientific facts to serve its policy goals on the environment, health, biomedical research and nuclear weaponry at home and abroad, The New York Times reported Thursday." What? A politician distorting the truth for his own ends? Maybe in places like China, but this is America we're talking about!




Sorry. I'm being a tad overly cynical.

Zero
19th February 2004, 12:01 PM
All those scientists must be MUCH more biased than industry scientists, because of the HUGE money that those anti-industry college professors get from...ummm...oh wait, that's where the argument breaks down, isn't it?

Some Friggin Guy
19th February 2004, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Upchurch
What? A politician distorting the truth for his own ends? Maybe in places like China, but this is America we're talking about!




Sorry. I'm being a tad overly cynical.


NNNNAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!! :D

Grammatron
19th February 2004, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by svero
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-02/20/content_1322785.htm

"WASHINGTON, Feb. 19 (Xinhuanet) -- Over 60 influential scientists have accused the Bush administration of systematically distorting scientific facts to serve its policy goals on the environment, health, biomedical research and nuclear weaponry at home and abroad, The New York Times reported Thursday."

Wow, all 60 of them? I am impressed.

Zero
19th February 2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Grammatron


Wow, all 60 of them? I am impressed. Wow, and ONLY 20 Nobel laureates!!:rolleyes:

Grammatron
19th February 2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Zero
Wow, and ONLY 20 Nobel laureates!!:rolleyes:

So? If I find the same or bigger number of scientist that agree with Bush you would agree right away? I sincerely doubt it. This thread is all but meaningless.

Zero
19th February 2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Grammatron


So? If I find the same or bigger number of scientist that agree with Bush you would agree right away? I sincerely doubt it. This thread is all but meaningless. Actually, it only takes ONE scientist to say it, if it is true...they just made sure that they covered the different disciplines.

And, of course, from what I have seen, it IS true. The Bush administration cherry-picks scientists from the list of "approved" scientists...those approved by industry and the Religious Wrong, of course.

Ignatius
19th February 2004, 02:27 PM
The headline from Fark:

"The Union of Concerned Scientists says the Bush administration manipulates and suppresses science. The administration points out that the Union of Bought and Paid for Scientists disagrees"

Also, there was a thread started about this topic in the Science and Math section you all might want to check out where headscratcher makes some interesting points.

deanerk
19th February 2004, 02:59 PM
So? If I find the same or bigger number of scientist that agree with Bush you would agree right away?

Huh??? You can come up with 60 influential scientists (20 of whom are Nobel leaureates) who would agree with scientific data that Bush himself collected on issues like global warming? If that was possible I'd have to agree with them...

pupdog
19th February 2004, 03:52 PM
This is the 3rd thread on this subject I've seen in the Forum (so far). And that's not counting earlier threads with the same comment.

So I'll repeat, this is not news--some of the same abuses were documented at

http://www.reform.house.gov/min . Also, they've been discussed in the pages on Science magazine.

I'm sure one can find scientists in full agreement with Bush, just as one can find scientists siding with Creationists. It's not the numbers, it's what they have to say that counts. Judge the evidence, not the speaker.

peptoabysmal
19th February 2004, 08:49 PM
I'd be interested to know if these scientists were most angered by supression of global warming information or supression of condom information. Doesn't this appear to be a clear stab at the US over the Kyoto treaty?

tamiO
19th February 2004, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Grammatron


So? If I find the same or bigger number of scientist that agree with Bush you would agree right away? I sincerely doubt it. This thread is all but meaningless.

Don't be silly. Even if you could find 60 scientists that agree with Bush, they wouldn't be real scientists. ;)

fishbob
23rd February 2004, 08:55 AM
Some historical perspective here:

commentary (http://www.iht.com/articles/130788.html)

In the 1930s, Trofim Lysenko postulated that hereditary changes to plants could be triggered by environmental changes - for example, by exposing seed grain to extreme temperatures. He insisted that this theory, which rejected widely accepted chromosome theories of heredity, directly corresponded to Marxism. He was rapidly promoted within the Stalinist hierarchy and in short order effectively became the science czar of the Soviet Union. Under him, bona fide geneticists were denounced as advocates of a doctrine synonymous with fascism. Lysenko was personally responsible for the deportation to the gulag of many talented scientists who didn't agree with his theories.