"9/11 Truthers are the real targets of the FBI"

[Orphia Nay]

Paul Craig Roberts was on Russia Today (talking about recent arrests of anti-war protesters with ties to terrorist organisations) and he created a conspiracy theory about conspiracy theorists.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/215772-Police-State-America-Paul-Craig-Roberts-Interviewed-on-Russia-Today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NyMs9y3WRg

6NyMs9y3WRg

At 3 min 10 sec: "I think the real target of the Homeland Security, of the FBI, are the 9/11 Truthers".

What's he trying to do? Shoot his movement in the foot? Aren't truthers paranoid enough already? :newlol

[Walter Ego]

Paul Craig Roberts was on Russia Today (talking about recent arrests of anti-war protesters with ties to terrorist organisations) and he created a conspiracy theory about conspiracy theorists.

At 3 min 10 sec: "I think the real target of the Homeland Security, of the FBI, are the 9/11 Truthers".

What's he trying to do? Shoot his movement in the foot? Aren't truthers paranoid enough already? :newlol

Roberts is not your run-of-the-mill truther. Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration and co-founder of "Reaganomics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Craig_Roberts)," he seems to have morphed into an extreme anti-"gubmint" libertarian (note the favorable mention of the ACLU in the video). He has flirted with trutherism since at least 2005.


Las Vegas Tribune July 29, 2005

Roberts said he hasn’t changed his political ideology or jumped from the Republican-conservative ship but "just can’t respect a party leadership who doesn’t respect the truth." "I guess the real story about 9/11 is about what the people are actually saying. I’ve gotten hundreds of emails in response to my columns and many of them talk about not getting the truth from the government or the media about what really happened at the World Trade Center. I know many qualified engineers and scientists have said the WTC collapsed from explosives. In fact, if you look at the manner in which it fell, you have to give their conclusions credibility."

http://www.wanttoknow.info/050908insidejob911#roberts

[Orphia Nay]

Thanks for the background on Roberts, Walter. :thumbsup: I was about to go looking for something like that. I know there was a thread about him a while ago.

[jhunter1163]

Hey, just because he's paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get him. :boxedin:

[T.A.M.]

Perhaps he has suffered a frontal lobe injury. It would account for so much.

TAM:)

[danrush]

Paul Craig Roberts was on Russia Today (talking about recent arrests of anti-war protesters with ties to terrorist organisations) and he created a conspiracy theory about conspiracy theorists.

Paul Craig Roberts belongs in Russia, better yet he belongs in Palestine when a 500 pound bomb crashes through his roof.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Perhaps he has suffered a frontal lobe injury. It would account for so much.

TAM:)

Or senility.

[Thunder]

At 3 min 10 sec: "I think the real target of the Homeland Security, of the FBI, are the 9/11 Truthers".


shoot!! they are on to us!!

we better take these Mo Fos out quick, before they can rally the troops and stage a counter-attack!!

SOT....you take out the LC boys.

Gravy....Alex Jones is all yours.

T.A.M......Craig Roberts is your man.

JHunter....you've got the CIT guys.

..sorry Orphia Nay...but Killtown is your assignment. Have fun. :)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I wanted Killtown. :(

[Thunder]

I wanted Killtown. :(

um.....ok....you can have David Von Kleist, one of the original truthers.

leave no blood.....but have fun. :)

[bill smith]

Paul Craig Roberts was on Russia Today (talking about recent arrests of anti-war protesters with ties to terrorist organisations) and he created a conspiracy theory about conspiracy theorists.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/215772-Police-State-America-Paul-Craig-Roberts-Interviewed-on-Russia-Today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NyMs9y3WRg

6NyMs9y3WRg

At 3 min 10 sec: "I think the real target of the Homeland Security, of the FBI, are the 9/11 Truthers".

What's he trying to do? Shoot his movement in the foot? Aren't truthers paranoid enough already? :newlol

Well even if the FBI round up all American Truthers that just leaves the rest of the world. And we will definitely get it to the American people what is happening. So I strongly suspect that this is just another transparent toothless threat.

You guys just don't get it. This CANNOT be put down. It will have to be adressed in the way we have demanded.

[Thunder]

It will have to be adressed in the way we have demanded.

not with my tax dollars. I would pick up arms before I let my tax dollars fund a Truther inspired new 9-11 Investigation.

[bill smith]

not with my tax dollars. I would pick up arms before I let my tax dollars fund a Truther inspired new 9-11 Investigation.

I'd say you will be ignored and they will go right ahead and spend your money anyway. So you may as well lock and load.lol

[Thunder]

I'd say you will be ignored and they will go right ahead and spend your money anyway. So you may as well lock and load.lol

good. perhaps I will. the 2nd Amendment is for us too......ya know.

[Dog Town]

It will have to be adressed in the way we have demanded.


You keep repeating the same thing! WHEN?



Pfft...never gonna get it...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/109234699fe7de0c94.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7037)http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/109234699fe7de0c94.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=7037)

[The Platypus]

Well even if the FBI round up all American Truthers that just leaves the rest of the world. And we will definitely get it to the American people what is happening. So I strongly suspect that this is just another transparent toothless threat.

You guys just don't get it. This CANNOT be put down. It will have to be adressed in the way we have demanded.

Ya we keep hearing all that huff and bluff, but really now, when? When is that going to happen... I'll tell ya when, never...

You just don't get it, you are in the lunatic fringe for a reason. There is no need to "put down" what your cult hasn't gotten off the ground in the first place... The majority of the world has long ago put you on their "ignore list" because it's impossible to take y'all seriously. Just look at you all, the things y'all say and how y'all behave, the arrogance, the aggression, the delusions of grandeur even...You kooks are your own worst enemy...nuff said...

[CHF]

It will have to be adressed in the way we have demanded.

Funny, that.

Every time I ask truthers to describe what they want their "new investigation" to look like it's obvious they've never thought about it.

[16.5]

Well even if the FBI round up all American Truthers that just leaves the rest of the world. And we will definitely get it to the American people what is happening. So I strongly suspect that this is just another transparent toothless threat.

You guys just don't get it. This CANNOT be put down. It will have to be adressed in the way we have demanded.

Threat?

Bill, the guy in the OP is about as threatening as you are. And he is one of you loons.

"We'll get them! The twoof will win out!.,.. Lets.... Oh, Halo Reach is out... Lets get them next week... Mom, can I get some more cheetos?"

[SRW]

Well even if the FBI round up all American Truthers that just leaves the rest of the world. And we will definitely get it to the American people what is happening. So I strongly suspect that this is just another transparent toothless threat.

You guys just don't get it. This CANNOT be put down. It will have to be adressed in the way we have demanded.

What threat? Who is threating anyone? How many Truthers have been tossed in prison for being truthers? Yes some have gotten them selves in trouble for other things, but not for their political beliefs. Seems that the FBI has missed quite a few of them if YouTube is any indication.

Although I am beginning to believe that there is only one truther on youtube who has been making the same statements for the past 5 years. Of course they do not seem to get much further from the same old same old here. I stopped looking in this sub forum around 07 but now see different names making the same tired old claims.

[Dog Town]

I stopped looking in this sub forum around 07 but now see different names making the same tired old claims.

Yes, we call them http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1092345c928e9ead6a.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4025)!

[SRW]

Yes, we call them http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1092345c928e9ead6a.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4025)!

Well that explains bill smith, who seems to have an opinion on everything but will not say it. I at first though he was a troll, but I guess he is a sock that is afraid to out him or her self.

[Fonebone]

shoot!! they are on to us!!

we better take these Mo Fos out quick, before they can rally the troops and stage a counter-attack!!

SOT....you take out the LC boys.

Gravy....Alex Jones is all yours.

T.A.M......Craig Roberts is your man.

JHunter....you've got the CIT guys.

..sorry Orphia Nay...but Killtown is your assignment. Have fun. :)

Who you going to 'sic' on Fonebone ?

[sheeplesnshills]

You guys just don't get it. This CANNOT be put down. It will have to be adressed in the way we have demanded.[/QUOTE]


Don't you need evidence first?:confused:

[Regnad Kcin]

You guys just don't get it. This CANNOT be put down. It will have to be adressed in the way we have demanded.I don't lol at very much, but...lol.

[Regnad Kcin]

And again...

Lol

[Thunder]

Truthers are in no position to demand ****.

[Regnad Kcin]

One more time...





























Lol

[Thunder]

Bill Smith- I will take up arms, before I allow one dime of my taxes pay for another 9-11 investigation.

[fitzgibbon]

shoot!! they are on to us!!

we better take these Mo Fos out quick, before they can rally the troops and stage a counter-attack!!

If I can have the Ace Baker file, I'll pay my way to L.A. and take him out with my Avid Dongle of Death! :D

[fitzgibbon]

I stopped looking in this sub forum around 07 but now see different names making the same tired old claims.

'The 'truth' movement's stuck in a Max Headroomesque feedback loop. Look for the duration between repetitions to decrease until their heads explode a la "Scanners"

http://jumptheturnstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/Scanners.gif

[Miragememories]

Funny, that.

Every time I ask truthers to describe what they want their "new investigation" to look like it's obvious they've never thought about it.
It is quite obvious that you haven't.

MM

[fitzgibbon]

It is quite obvious that you haven't.

MM

Take the lead, MM. Strike a pose! What's this newer, better, truthier investigation going to look like?

[Comrade Raptor]

It is quite obvious that you haven't.

MM


You want skeptics to do the work for you? That's pretty lazy. But, ok.

Done. Investigation concluded. We're right. Math wins, fatality.

[Thunder]

so when does the FBI secret assassination squad start working?

I can think of a few graves I'd love to spit on.

:)

[Unsecured Coins]

Bill Smith makes me giggle.

[cooperman]

One more time...





























Lol

These contributions are valuable. I sure hope that nobody moves these to "Abandon all hope".

[Regnad Kcin]

Being a relative newb to the forums, likely you don't know our Mr. Smith, do you.

[cooperman]

Being a relative newb to the forums, likely you don't know our Mr. Smith, do you.

I have seen him in action. He seems like a reasonable fellow.

[Fonebone]

Being a relative newb to the forums, likely you don't know our Mr. Smith, do you.

Smith is Nick Danger ? The viet nam war hero and toady that served with major Faraway's
fusiliers protecting a senior officers in-country R&R poolside cabana
commandposts ?
Naw - I'm skeptical.

[Bullwinkle2009]

Hi, Why do I suddenly think "Firesign Theater"?

[T.A.M.]

shoot!! they are on to us!!

we better take these Mo Fos out quick, before they can rally the troops and stage a counter-attack!!

SOT....you take out the LC boys.

Gravy....Alex Jones is all yours.

T.A.M......Craig Roberts is your man.

JHunter....you've got the CIT guys.

..sorry Orphia Nay...but Killtown is your assignment. Have fun. :)

Heh, how come I get stuck with the old guy...jeesh.

TAM:D

[Fonebone]

Hi, Why do I suddenly think "Firesign Theater"?

Conditioned response--
"Firesign Theater" is a all too common technique or modus operandi here at JREF used
to ridicule and make sport of truth seekers or
to disparage or soil the name of the honest citizens of courage investigating
the crimes of September eleventh 2001. Bic ?

[T.A.M.]

Conditioned response--
"Firesign Theater" is a all too common technique or modus operandi here at JREF used
to ridicule and make sport of truth seekers or
to disparage or soil the name of the honest citizens of courage investigating
the crimes of September eleventh 2001. Bic ?

SO by calling Frank Greening a CHEMIST, which is factually true, and then stating that he is not an expert in the relevant fields (fire safety, fire fighting, structural engineering), how am I "Disparaging" him or "Soiling" his name?

This oughta be good.

TAM:)

[Bullwinkle2009]

Hi, OK so "a tree grew all day and then fell over" or "If you push something hard enough it will fall over" have already been used? And somewhere the Giant Rat of Sumatra is reading this?

[Fonebone]

SO by calling Frank Greening a CHEMIST, which is factually true, and then stating that he is not an expert in the relevant fields (fire safety, fire fighting, structural engineering), how am I "Disparaging" him or "Soiling" his name?

This oughta be good.

TAM:)
Experts often cross fields-
You're a proctologist and you were able to diagnose my PTSD as a mental illness .

[Orphia Nay]

..sorry Orphia Nay...but Killtown is your assignment. Have fun. :)

I get someone that debunks himself and is so batcrap crazy that all the truther forums have banned him?!

You love me! You really love me! :blush: :D

[T.A.M.]

Experts often cross fields-
You're a proctologist and you were able to diagnose my PTSD as a mental illness .

ummm....

I am a GP.

As a GP (jack of all medicine, master of none) I could diagnose your PTSD, but would almost certainly send you to a Psychiatrist for confirmation and management. Also, I would not, WOULD NOT, perform your sigmoidoscopy.

However, calling a chemist an expert in fire safety, fire fighting, or structural engineering, is like allowing YOUR PLUMBER to do your sigmoidoscopy...GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

TAM:D

[cooperman]

SO by calling Frank Greening a CHEMIST, which is factually true, and then stating that he is not an expert in the relevant fields (fire safety, fire fighting, structural engineering), how am I "Disparaging" him or "Soiling" his name?

This oughta be good.

TAM:)

Frank Greening was a good enough authority when he was being cited by debunkers. That was before he joined here and expressed his ammonium perchlorate theory and got banned. Now, suddenly, he is not a relevant expert.

None of the main debunkers are experts in the relevant fields. Mark Roberts was a tour guide and RMackey is a NASA engineer.

[Aidoneus]

Frank Greening was a good enough authority when he was being cited by debunkers. That was before he joined here and expressed his ammonium perchlorate theory and got banned. Now, suddenly, he is not a relevant expert.

None of the main debunkers are experts in the relevant fields. Mark Roberts was a tour guide and RMackey is a NASA engineer.

And the NIST were...?

Oh yes.

Experts in the relevant fields.

[BigAl]

Frank Greening was a good enough authority when he was being cited by debunkers. That was before he joined here and expressed his ammonium perchlorate theory and got banned. Now, suddenly, he is not a relevant expert.

None of the main debunkers are experts in the relevant fields. Mark Roberts was a tour guide and RMackey is a NASA engineer.

And you are?

[PhantomWolf]

Frank Greening was a good enough authority when he was being cited by debunkers. That was before he joined here and expressed his ammonium perchlorate theory and got banned.

Perhaps you should enlighten yourself on the circumstances of his banning. Dr Greening (Apollo20) was a well respected member here and contributed to many good discussions, including several I was part of. However he was also strangely unstable and went off the rails after taking objection to other poster.

Here is his banning notice. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=117412)

Here is the thread discussing with his banning and time here. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=117442)

This had nothing to do with his views, and everything to do with his behaviour.

[Dave Rogers]

Frank Greening was a good enough authority when he was being cited by debunkers. That was before he joined here and expressed his ammonium perchlorate theory and got banned.

Ah, what a lovely example of truther hypocrisy we've got here. Now, let's see what cooperman has to say on the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy in another thread:

The OP is very deceptive in claiming that damage caused by the towers collapse contributed to 7's collapse.

And the actual post he was complaining about said that:

I tend to respnd with 'The towers fell, severely damaged building 7, a fire raged for hours, the building weakened, then collapsed, The end.

So, according to cooperman's notion of honesty, saying "A happened then B happened" is tantamount to claiming that A caused B, so that shouldn't be done when A didn't cause B. Yet here he is, doing exactly the same thing he criticised Titanic Explorer for doing. Because, as those of us who were here at the time know, Frank Greening's ban was nothing to do with any post he made on the subject of ammonium perchlorate, but in fact due to him contacting the employer of another member to try to pressure her into ceasing posting on the forum, a clear breach of forum rules.

So, cooperman, are you going to admit you were being dishonest there, by implying falsely that Frank Greening's ban was because of the opinions he expressed? Or are you going to withdraw your accusation against Titanic Explorer?

There's a third option, of course, but it's not exactly a respectable one.

Dave

[NutCracker]

Conditioned response--
"Firesign Theater" is a all too common technique or modus operandi here at JREF used
to ridicule and make sport of truth seekers or
to disparage or soil the name of the honest citizens of courage investigating
the crimes of September eleventh 2001. Bic ?

Just a reminder. The "honest citizens of courage" have no shred of evidende to offer. Not one iota. And no, a barrage of logical fallicies and distortions does not consitute evidence. And hunting "anomalies", real or perceived, does not constitute "investigating."


Just saying.


Oh, lest I forget, it takes "courage" to post on the internetz from mom's basement only within the realm of a paranoid fantasy.

[T.A.M.]

Frank Greening was a good enough authority when he was being cited by debunkers. That was before he joined here and expressed his ammonium perchlorate theory and got banned. Now, suddenly, he is not a relevant expert.

None of the main debunkers are experts in the relevant fields. Mark Roberts was a tour guide and RMackey is a NASA engineer.

1. Where did i ever call him an expert in firei safety, fire fighting, or structural engineering.

2. His paper is what it is. Argue the science of it if you wish.

3. I never said mark roberts was an expert. Mackey has fundamental engineering training so he has some expertise. I never said frank greenings opinion was useless, or even wrong, i merely said do not be parading him around like an expert in any of those fields.

If you think he is an expert in firefighting, fire safety, or structural engineering, please tell me, on what basis do you call him an expert?

TAM:)

[Dave Rogers]

Frank Greening was a good enough authority when he was being cited by debunkers.

Actually, no, he wasn't a good enough authority at all. Some of his work was well sourced, well constructed and well reasoned from premises to conclusions, and on its internal merits it was accepted as a good analysis of the collapses of the Twin Towers. Other parts of his work was less well constructed and drew more speculative conclusions, and this was less well received.

Where truthers go wrong is by assuming that reality is decided by decree. It's known as the Appeal to Authority fallacy, and they're so immersed in the belief that it's a reliable way to determine the truth that they're unable to perceive when others don't employ it. A theory based on evidence that is obviously fabricated or misinterpreted, and which doesn't even establish the feasibility of key components, won't be taken seriously even if it comes from a nuclear physicist of over twenty years' experience. And one based on verifiable, correctly represented evidence, which shows sound reasoning from premises to conclusions, will be - at the very least - taken seriously, even if it comes from a New York tour guide.

So, it's not a matter of counting the experts on one side and counting the experts on the other, and declaring victory to the bigger number. Although, for some very obvious reasons, the truthers lose that way as well.

Dave

[Regnad Kcin]

I have seen him in action. He seems like a reasonable fellow.Our Mr. Smith? Reasonable? Ho ho and ha ha.

[Regnad Kcin]

None of the main debunkers are experts in the relevant fields. Mark Roberts was a tour guide...To be a certified New York City tour guide one must be extremely knowledgeable and conversant on all manner of history, architecture, art, performing art, politics, transportation, notable and not-so noteworthy persons, all manner of minutiae, and on and on.

A very intelligent good friend of mine studied for his TG exam for much of a year and failed in his first two attempts. Mark Roberts, unless I'm misremembering, first time out scored higher on his than anyone.

[cooperman]

To be a certified New York City tour guide one must be extremely knowledgeable and conversant on all manner of history, architecture, art, performing art, politics, transportation, notable and not-so noteworthy persons, all manner of minutiae, and on and on.

A very intelligent good friend of mine studied for his TG exam for much of a year and failed in his first two attempts. Mark Roberts, unless I'm misremembering, first time out scored higher on his than anyone.

And? I am sure he was a good tour guide, but he wasn't an expert on building collapse.

You can't insist that 9/11 truthers must be experts in the relevant fields when your main men aren't.

[BigAl]

And? I am sure he was a good tour guide, but he wasn't an expert on building collapse.

You can't insist that 9/11 truthers must be experts in the relevant fields when your main men aren't.

I've never seen Mark be unable to cite a relevant expert source for anything he posts.

[PhantomWolf]

And? I am sure he was a good tour guide, but he wasn't an expert on building collapse.

You can't insist that 9/11 truthers must be experts in the relevant fields when your main men aren't.

Mark never claims to be an expert in engineering or building collapses, he defers to people that are experts in those subjects and reads and digests what they have to say on the matter. The sources that he lists and references ARE experts in their fields. What Mark has done is studied their work enough to understand it, summerise it, and apply it.

You garden variety 9/11 Truther ignores what the experts say and instead rely on the likes of Professors of Philosphy or totally uneducated film students. Even when they do manage to find someone with close to relevant in the required fields, 9 times out of 10, they don't actually bother using that expertise, but merely spout the same Truther miscomprehensions and rubbish as the rest, thus failing to actually apply any expertise to the issue.

[beachnut]

And? I am sure he was a good tour guide, but he wasn't an expert on building collapse.

You can't insist that 9/11 truthers must be experts in the relevant fields when your main men aren't.
As you are finding out your knowledge of physics is lacking, Gravy was able to understand physics and other topics; why? He must of been really good at comprehension, reading, and research. Good at critical thinking. Traits and skills not found in 911 truth.

He is more of an expert on building collapse than anyone in 911 truth. The reason is all of 911 truth is based on lies, hearsay, and fantasy. Gravy used evidence and facts; 911 truth uses zero evidence and makes up idiotic lies.

Your main men? 911 truth has zero experts, the so called experts are paranoid conspiracy theorist, no evidence for 9 years of complete failure.

The OP is about how paranoid 911 truth, as they make up stupid ideas. With leaders in 911 truth as paranoid as the OP exposes, no wonder 911 truth has failed for 9 years.

[dafydd]

Conditioned response--
"Firesign Theater" is a all too common technique or modus operandi here at JREF used
to ridicule and make sport of truth seekers or
to disparage or soil the name of the honest citizens of courage investigating
the crimes of September eleventh 2001. Bic ?

Honest citzens of courage,lol.Not one of these citizens has ever had the guts to post a complete theory here.Wht don't you oblige us?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=186203&page=9

[Thunder]

You can't insist that 9/11 truthers must be experts in the relevant fields when your main men aren't.

Our "main men", are Phd. level Engineers and Architects.

[ProBonoShill]

None of the main debunkers are experts in the relevant fields. Mark Roberts was a tour guide and RMackey is a NASA engineer.

Yet they both manged to make your truther heroes look like complete idiots during debates.

Speaking of experts, have you contacted the NCSEA (http://www.ncsea.com/Members.aspx),
the AIA (http://www.aia.org/),
the NDA (http://www.demolitionassociation.com/),
the NYPD (http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/home/home.shtml) or the FDNY (http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/home2.shtml)?

I'm sure they'd be happy to discuss your concerns with you, in between fits of laughter.