Ever wanted to know what DMT hyperspace looks and sounds like?

[bit_pattern]

This is about as close as you're ever going to get without going there yourself. Amazing stuff! :eek:

http://vimeo.com/13886600

[Spoons]

Awesome find, bit_pattern!

Takes me back... freaky, freaky memories.

[Halfcentaur]

This is quite similar to the place I seemed to have visited and the patterns I was seeing. If you haven't seen it, I would recommend the trip sequence from a movie called Blueberry, it almost gives me "flashbacks" as well.

[Spoons]

This movie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blueberry_(film))?

[Spoons]

Or this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ztU1bafTig)?

Says it is sometimes called Renegade instead of Blueberry.

[Halfcentaur]

Yes, that sequence. You must find a higher resolution example though, I implore you. There are some better ones on youtube, it's hard to find a high rez one without some silly techno music dubbed over it however.

The visual effects creator actually had experienced ayahuasca in South America, I am not certain if he did it for the film, or if it was just something he had experience with incidentally, but the authenticity of the experience he captured is striking.

I find the moment when things go beyond the animist visions in the sequence, when the point of view goes beyond his flesh deep inside his particles and atoms and the golden hue dominates the vision, to be the most similar to my own experiences with smoking mimosa extract. It's about 8 minutes or so into the final trip sequence in the film.

I am fascinated by the very specific regions this substance seems to target and stimulate. I think the entities I encountered had something to do with the processes involved with rudimentary facial recognition. It's difficult to discuss these things with people not given to woo.

The very real sense of being in a place where only moments before other humans from thousands or hundreds of years in the past had also been standing due to a difference in the flow of time there was so overbearing, it's hard to blame someone who isn't prone to skepticism for believing it to be real. The distinct meso-american aesthetic to the symbols and "architecture" of the designs also fascinates me, I think it's possible that these substances could very well have influenced these cultures into building and creating art to mimic these visions.

[Spoons]

It is fascinating stuff. I don't know how much research is done into this area, but I'd hate to think that research is being limited due to any sort of "recreational drug" negative connotations. Something as powerful as that really should be understood.

I've always had a thing for fractals, so for me it was no shock for my mind to kind of turn everything into a fractalised visual.

I will certainly be chasing up a high-res version of that. It's a very soothing scene to me.

To me the power of something like DMT is much more awe-inspiring when you appreciate it from a scientific perspective though anyway, rather than any sort of woo-like, "spirits are tapping" me kind of angle.

And yeah, I would expect that any culture that was more open and accepting of the usage of that sort of thing would encorporate themes from their internal experiences into a number of aspects of their culture.

[bit_pattern]

^^ I didn't see that coming! http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?pictureid=3817&albumid=536&dl=1286274705&thumb=1

This is quite similar to the place I seemed to have visited and the patterns I was seeing. If you haven't seen it, I would recommend the trip sequence from a movie called Blueberry, it almost gives me "flashbacks" as well.

I met the guy who directed Blueberry, Jan Kounen, at a shamanic conference in Peru a few years back

[Spoons]

^^ I didn't see that coming! http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?pictureid=3817&albumid=536&dl=1286274705&thumb=1

Heh heh, why is that? I hope I didn't sully my persona in another thread. ;)

That would've been a very cool experience, meeting the director. Nice.

[bit_pattern]

He was actually really boring, all he talked about was his films, but the ayahuasca certainly wasn't, it was brutal.

[Spoons]

Boring guy eh? Ah well. Can't win them all.

I would imagine it to be pretty savage. DMT is hugely powerful even in tiny amounts.

I still really hope to get to South America one day for the experience... I figure it's something that should be experienced at least once.

[23_Tauri]

Holy crap! I'm back in the jungle! :covereyes

When I would be first sinking into the ayahuasca I would find myself floating and turning in this place I could only describe as a cavernous space of stained glass fractals, with the sense of 'presences' all around me as I lost contact with linear time and space. This video is the nearest thing I have seen to that. I agree with Spoons in that I'm more interested these days in knowing where in my brain this stuff comes from and why, and more research should be done. DMT is far from 'recreational' IMO.

[23_Tauri]

I still really hope to get to South America one day for the experience... I figure it's something that should be experienced at least once.
I chose to get hit by the aya freight train 41 times. It's not for the faint-hearted and that video in the OP actually reminded me that I have definitely had enough now. :D However, I hope you get to go one day, Spoons.

I met the guy who directed Blueberry, Jan Kounen, at a shamanic conference in Peru a few years back
In Iquitos, right?

[bit_pattern]

^^ Yeah, a mad city! :eek:

Holy crap! I'm back in the jungle! :covereyes

When I would be first sinking into the ayahuasca I would find myself floating and turning in this place I could only describe as a cavernous space of stained glass fractals, with the sense of 'presences' all around me as I lost contact with linear time and space. This video is the nearest thing I have seen to that. I agree with Spoons in that I'm more interested these days in knowing where in my brain this stuff comes from and why, and more research should be done. DMT is far from 'recreational' IMO.

I interpreted that moment as going up into space and through weird portals and spaceships and docking bays before being taken into a city to be scanned by these pulsating alien beings... Good times!

[23_Tauri]

^^ Yeah, a mad city! :eek:
Moto-taxis ;)

I interpreted that moment as going up into space and through weird portals and spaceships and docking bays before being taken into a city to be scanned by these pulsating alien beings... Good times!
In my post, I first typed "space ship" but then changed the wording because really it was just a structured space, of light and vivid colour, and entities making that weird, fast "ka ka ka" noise. Sometimes I thought of it as a spaceship, sometimes a temple. It was the point at which I'd realise I'd drunk it again and I was in No Way Back city. :D

[welshdean]

Moto-taxis ;)


In my post, I first typed "space ship" but then changed the wording because really it was just a structured space, of light and vivid colour, and entities making that weird, fast "ka ka ka" noise. Sometimes I thought of it as a spaceship, sometimes a temple. It was the point at which I'd realise I'd drunk it again and I was in No Way Back city. :D


How long does the 'high' last for? Is it like acid where you can be gone for 8-12 hrs?

[23_Tauri]

How long does the 'high' last for? Is it like acid where you can be gone for 8-12 hrs?
With the brew I was drinking, about 4-5 hours. But of course you're in non-linear eternity during that time :D so it's irrelevant really.

We would drink at 8pm and the ceremony would last until midnight when the shamans stop singing icaros and light a kerosene lamp. Many participants would still be deep in the visionary state at that time. It can go on all night. I've had ceremonies where the mareacion (effects of the ayahuasca) lasts until dawn. That's one of the curious things about ayahuasca, is that the trip is always different. :eye-poppi

The thing about ayahuasca is you don't have to buy into all the spirit woo to get something really profound out of the experience, and the shamans I drank with stressed this. It's only since I came back and become more sceptical generally that I've viewed my ayahuasca experiences differently. In a way, a non-woo approach is even more intriguing .

[Spoons]

Well, I've lived quite a life, and I'm looking for the cleansing reset button. From the experience of DMT I think this would be the experience that I want and/or need.

Smoking DMT only lasted probably 15 minutes or so in the extreme end of it, but that's a wild guess (time lost relevancy), and afterwards it seemed like an hour or so. I was left wanting for more - it felt like my mind and soul was venturing out on a beautiful journey, meandering through it's own birth canals. I felt really at home and safe, like being wrapped in a warm blanket on a cold winters day - hard to explain, but strangely comforting, while still raw.

I was told afterwards that this chemical compound occurs naturally in the human brain and is released at two stages in the human life - at birth and at death. I wondered about that, and thought in a way that is very comforting, but I haven't looked it up recently and confirmed it. Anyone know if I was just being fed rubbish info there?

[Bloodtoes]

I read a lot about it a few years ago around the time I was getting into the less volatile psychedelics, but have forgotten much :-/. For what it's worth, moon landing denier and conspiracy nut Joe Rogan apparently loves the stuff. :rolleyes: So did 2012 "end of history" and TimeWaveZero crackpot Terrence McKenna. One thing I do remember was reading about a guy (a university researcher of some descript iirc) (edit: I believe it was Rick Strassman, the guy wrote DMT:The Spirit Molecule -- in fact I think that study is what the book is more or less about) who did experiments with DMT on volunteers back in the .. 80s? 70s? around then anyway. He was eventually shut down. The volunteers both reported uplifting and life-changing experiences, and being raped by lizard men. I guess being raped by lizard men would not be particularly uplifting, though perhaps life-changing.

As crazy as the experience might be, I can't see attributing any validity to it other than being the brain's own internal light show. Maybe some demonstration of how it goes about recognising patterns so well while trying to deal with this, whatever it is DMT does.

With regards to DMT being released at birth and death.. no idea if it's true. It's supposed to come from the pineal gland, but I've also read that any DMT released by that gland wouldn't make it into the brain's pathways the same way that it does when smoked anyway. That however, also may not be true. The implication seems to be that it does this to help prepare you for the journey to come or some such. Call me skeptical about that idea. There's no possibility that such a function could have evolved as a benefit of any kind, anyway -- people who die don't make babies regardless of what happens to them in their final moments. If it's true, it's just one of many things your body goes through as everything fails and ceases functioning. Also, babies and dead people aren't very reliable witnesses. And, at what part of birth? The moment you're spit out, or at some point while still in the womb?

The video had less things folding in on themselves than I was expecting. And where's the crazy 4d chrysanthemum I've heard so much about? :)

[23_Tauri]

I was told afterwards that this chemical compound occurs naturally in the human brain and is released at two stages in the human life - at birth and at death. I wondered about that, and thought in a way that is very comforting, but I haven't looked it up recently and confirmed it. Anyone know if I was just being fed rubbish info there?

Often cited as true in the psychonaut fraternity, (and something I swallowed whole in my more credulous days) but actually not proven:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_article2.shtml
A well-known factoid bandied about by psychedelic drug geeks is the idea that DMT, or some other psychoactive tryptamine, is produced by the pineal gland. When did this idea originate? And is it actually true?

[Weak Kitten]

Um, I hate to be a bother but could someone pleas tell me what DMT is? Is it some sort of theoretical faster than light travel or something? You all seem to be talking about drugs, what does that have to do with hyperspace?

[Spoons]

Often cited as true in the psychonaut fraternity, (and something I swallowed whole in my more credulous days) but actually not proven:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_article2.shtml

I wouldn't have expected that it'd been confirmed in any way, so that matches my expectations. It seems like a statement that would be somewhat difficult to confirm or deny, which makes it a perfect pseudoscience thing to say. I just thought it's worth checking among a relatively knowledgeable crowd.

Weak Kitten, I think the hyperspace was put in there more as an "emotional" descriptive, a kind of buzz word of psychedelia.

[gerdbonk]

Um, I hate to be a bother but could someone pleas tell me what DMT is? Is it some sort of theoretical faster than light travel or something? You all seem to be talking about drugs, what does that have to do with hyperspace?

Dimethyltryptamine

[23_Tauri]

I wouldn't have expected that it'd been confirmed in any way, so that matches my expectations. It seems like a statement that would be somewhat difficult to confirm or deny, which makes it a perfect pseudoscience thing to say. I just thought it's worth checking among a relatively knowledgeable crowd.
Oh, you flatterer, Mr Spoons! :blush: Really, I'm no expert, just use google like everyone else. But keep going with the flattery if you must. ;)

[Spoons]

Rule 1 of the FBI Stoolie Handbook. Become accepted within the crowd. Any way possible. Booyaa! ;)

[bit_pattern]

Um, I hate to be a bother but could someone pleas tell me what DMT is? Is it some sort of theoretical faster than light travel or something? You all seem to be talking about drugs, what does that have to do with hyperspace?

Nah, "hyperspace" is just a term people use when trying to express the inexpressable, it has nothing to do with hyperspace, it's just woo talk really.

Bloodtoes - Oh yeah, this **** attracts woo-mongers like flies to a carcass. When I was in Peru at this conference one of the events they had planned was a psychotelekinesis party or something, the guy promised we'd all be bending spoons with our minds by the end of the night. Biggest load of crap I've ever hasd the misfortune of sitting through :rolleyes:

Funnily enough though, for me, I went there fairly at receptive to woo, thinking I'd have some McKenna-esque awakening and see new levels of reality, not so. The medicine kicked my arse, I certainly don't feel inclined to try it again in a hurry, but I came out of it with a hard headed, rational, scepticism, I pretty much renounced the last vestiges of my hippy upbringing embraced the sort of 'establishment' reason that I'd spent my life rejecting. Strange how it works. Don't get me wrong, the stuff is powerful and I don't for a second doubt it's medicinal qualities, it's just that it gave me something so incredibly unexpected. So it does attract woo but I don't think i necessarily creates woo, if that makes sense.

[Spoons]

So it does attract woo but I don't think i necessarily creates woo, if that makes sense.
Makes perfect sense.

[23_Tauri]

Funnily enough though, for me, I went there fairly at receptive to woo, thinking I'd have some McKenna-esque awakening and see new levels of reality, not so. The medicine kicked my arse, I certainly don't feel inclined to try it again in a hurry, but I came out of it with a hard headed, rational, scepticism, I pretty much renounced the last vestiges of my hippy upbringing embraced the sort of 'establishment' reason that I'd spent my life rejecting. Strange how it works. Don't get me wrong, the stuff is powerful and I don't for a second doubt it's medicinal qualities, it's just that it gave me something so incredibly unexpected. So it does attract woo but I don't think i necessarily creates woo, if that makes sense.
Spookily, this is exactly what happened to me. I could've written this. Ayahuasca cut through my heaps of woo. It was only after ayahuasca that I discovered JREF forum, scepticism and the bright light of critical thinking. A hackneyed cliché in the world of aya is that "the medicine gives you what you need, not what you think you need". I have only learnt what this really means in the last 12 months.

[bit_pattern]

Hackneyed cliché??? http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=536&pictureid=3813 And here's me thinking I was being all eloquent and ****** :D ;)

[bit_pattern]

As crazy as the experience might be, I can't see attributing any validity to it other than being the brain's own internal light show. Maybe some demonstration of how it goes about recognising patterns so well while trying to deal with this, whatever it is DMT does.

I dunno, I guess it has to be seen to be believed but it goes a LOT deeper than patterns, the entity contact is incredibly eerie and I'd love to see real research threshed out on this phenomenon. Maybe it is all internally projected, I'd be happy to be convinced so if there were evidence that pointed that direction, but between DMT, ayahuasca and psilocybin (essentially an orally active DMT) I have had considerable entity contact that has convinced me that there is something to it. I suspect that in the not too distant future these compounds are going to give us new, scientific understandings of the nature of reality and the role the human mind plays in creating that reality. I wouldn't for a second be surprised to learn that there are all kinds of layers of reality we just can't see in our normal, waking state of consciousness. And that maybe aliens really are out there, but much closer than we ever suspected, existing in the same time and space but on a different vibrational wavelength of reality. But that's just me, lol :D

[23_Tauri]

Hackneyed cliché??? http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=536&pictureid=3813 And here's me thinking I was being all eloquent and ****** :D ;)
Awww... I didn't mean it like that. You were right on the money. I meant that people say it all the time but it is true!

[Halfcentaur]

I've heard it called hyperspace myself and feel the name is apt for the "dimensions" one visits.

I literally felt as if my head burst through the ceiling of our reality, and my head was in a higher dimensional space. If you could describe something fourth dimensional or something, it would have been like "where" I was. I was surrounded by over a dozen or more of these alien entities who were sort of sitting in the lotus position, arrayed around me like some council. They had flat diamond shaped tiki looking clay like masks for faces, (sort of like the video game character's face Q-bert) with 3 basic geometric circles symbolizing eyes and a mouth, sometimes triangles. on the surface of the mask, elaborate interwoven designs were spilling down the mask like wet paint that was arranging itself into new designs. The space in between myself and the entities, and all around us, seemed like an infinite chamber. But space and distance did not exist as it does here. It's difficult to put into words how this felt actually more real than reality. As if the chemical in our brains that causes us to project a reality was on overdrive, I was feeling more than ever before, I had senses for distance I had not felt before, more so than a mere cross wiring of smell and sight like on LSD. There was also a holographic multilayered geometric web connected to us all sort of, and there were clearly Incan or some other mesoamerican looking hieroglyphics arrayed around us in the space between things that were oscillating and rotating clockwise, as they rotated the details of the glyphs would shift into new designs.

I had the distinct impression that people had been coming here for thousands of years, and if I was only there a few moments before I arrived i would have seen ancient mescaleros or tribal shaman visiting the same place on their own experiences, like time there was on a totally different rate of flow, but we had to only be there one at a time or something.

Now, I neglected to mention the absolute overwhelming sensation of pure terror that had me unable to think or move and barely process what I was seeing. I felt like I was flattened under a torrent of emotion with the strength of a literal waterfall that was flattening me to the bottom floor of the river, if reality were a pool this waterfall was pouring into. I also got the impression the entities were regarding me, and almost about to communicate if I could only resist giving into complete astonishment. But I was mentally paralyzed by the emotional torrent, and all I could think was "what you are seeing is the most amazing thing you've ever seen before, but you've got to get past this insane terror and process what you're seeing later, just get through this and take it second by second". This seemed like a mantra I had to repeat, as surrendering to the torrent was not working and I almost worried I was going to be like this forever.

Within moments, the entities lost all interest in me, like I was a fly or insect on the ground, and I felt a little disappointed for squandering this. I began to sort of get past the insanely intense torrent of emotions and really process what i was seeing. I then opened my eyes and looked around the room in the real world, and everything was there and looked normal. My friend was looking at me and I felt like i had not taken a breath in twenty minutes. I laughed and closed my eyes and the hyperpsace world was still there, I could see them both, eyes open and I was here, eyes closed and was there in hyperspace. The next thing i knew it was over and i was blown away by what I just saw.

I had read about DMT when I was 14, and had always wanted to experience this sort of thing. Not until I was 29 had I finally found the mimosa smokable extract through a friend who extracted it, it was a bit of a grail for me. The funny thing was this specific trip was a total accident of sorts. I had tried the Dmt a few times and experienced nothing but a torrent of sensation which was a little terrifying that turned into a golden sense of ultimate surrender and connection with the universe upon surrendering to it.
I was worried actually i did not have enough when i got a lung full that instantly blasted me into another dimension.

Since then, I've been too wary from the "preflight jitters' to do such a strong dose again. It's the most simultaneously traumatic and beautiful experience I've had in some sense. It's been about 9 months, but i am glad to have experienced what i did. Virtual reality or not, I now know what it's like to meet a non human intelligence, and for that I am thankful. I would be open to exploring the chain of thought that there is some basis of truth in that these entities may exist, but for now I believe it is a very specific stimulation of neural regions, connected with the sense of another individual's presence, rudimentary facial recognition, and other psychological processes.

* I did not mean to get so in depth, I was texting this as a passenger in a car, apologies if it seems a bit disjointed in the pacing and spelling erros*

[Soapy Sam]

My drug of choice remains caffeine.
I heard Graham Hancock talk about DMT. His notion is , like bit_pattern's in post 30, that there actually is another reality, shared by shamans since way back through use of this , or similar drugs.
My suspicion is that all human brains are very similar and if you put the same chemicals in, you get similar output, whether behavioural or pseudo sensory.
I do wonder if the sense of "presence" is causally similar to the presence often reported during the (extremely common) experience of sleep paralysis. My parsimonious view is that the presence sensed in those cases is a normally not consciously accessible subroutine of one's own mind- probably the "I" we experience while dreaming, which is far less integrated with body image and sensory awareness than the waking "I".

In short, a crossed wire.

[23_Tauri]

@ Halfcentaur. Thank you for sharing. I can relate to much of what you describe, particularly the presence of entities and the simultaneous sense that this is the most terrifying and yet most beautiful thing that I have ever experienced, that it's more real than consensual reality. It is in this that DMT/ayahuasca is unlike other psychedelics, this 'realness'.

Following on from Soapy Sam's observation, the question remains whether what DMT allows one to experience is an alternate, parallel reality where these entities really do exist, or whether this is what happens when you open up previously unaccessed parts of the mind. Perhaps the former is the less challenging answer because it allows one to just say "oh well, there's this other place" and leave it at that. Now, I think more in terms of both everyday reality and DMT reality to both be equally valid and real constructs of the mind, not separate universes. I find it difficult to rationalise ayahuasca experience with my sceptical outlook to things generally.

Sensing the presence of entities seems similar to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet), whereby feeling of there being 'something in the room' can be produced through stimulating the brain with magnetic fields.

[Soapy Sam]

One word I never see associated with the implications of Persinger's work, is "torture".
But if targeted EM fields can cause one sensation in the brain, why not others?
The possibilities for interrogation are (I would think) at least intriguing enough to catch the attention of the sort of men who Stare at Goats.

[Spoons]

You know what really gets the attention of men who Stare at Goats?

Goats.