Evolution, the bible and Fairness

[Dancing David]

One day , sometime last month, I was discussing the evilution debate on a thread here. I think it was during UpChurch's rant about the MO legislature.

My darling wife suggested a fair solution, since the religous people wanted to intrude upon the teaching of science and basicaly rewrite the science texts, she suggested that scientists be allowed to rewrite the bible, and that it be used in all the churches.

Turn about is fair play, no?

[fishbob]

she suggested that scientists be allowed to rewrite the bible, and that it be used in all the churches. Nice idea, but will never happen. There is no fairness in the churches.

Here is the kind of deal you get from churches (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040227/ap_on_re_us/church_abuse&cid=519&ncid=716)

. . . a survey compiled by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice found 4,392 of the 109,694 clergy who served over that five-decade period faced allegations of abuse. The survey was overseen by the National Review Board, a lay watchdog panel the bishops formed at the height of the molestation crisis.

A source who has read both documents told the AP on condition of anonymity that the causes report places much of the blame on bishops. It says their "moral laxity" created an atmosphere that allowed the abuse problem to fester.

Dioceses nationwide received 10,667 abuse claims since 1950, according to the John Jay study. Of those, claims by approximately 6,700 were substantiated. About 3,300 were not investigated because the accused clergymen were dead.

A "molestation crisis" is what you get from churches.

[c4ts]

I could probably write some parts of the bible better than they were, but I'm no scientist.

[rachaella]

If I were to rewrite the Bible, the first thing I'd do is get rid of Leviticus.

[pgwenthold]

In the beginning, there was God. Well, there were other things, too, but since this story is about God, we'll just start with God. And God said, "Let there be physics." And so physics was created. And it was hard. Lots of really advanced calculus, and, just for measure, you have to be well-versed in non-Euclidean geometry.

After creating physics, there was nothing left for God to do, as physics led to the creation of the universe and all things in it. So he has spent the time since hanging out at events involving alcohol, disguised as your drunk uncle Cletus. He is most commonly recognized as the guy at the beginning of the conga line. Yea, these are the complete scriptures of our Lord. Anything else anyone tells you is made up *********.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by rachaella
If I were to rewrite the Bible, the first thing I'd do is get rid of Leviticus.
I would write the story Genesis Part 0. It would be one chapter long, the chapter one sentence in length, it would read like this:

<blockquote>1:1

Everything you are about to read is nothing but shameless lies.</blockquote>

[hammegk]

Or an even simpler solution: start the Theory of Evolution with the comment ""Well I'm a materialist physicalist so from that viewpoint God cannot exist, however I cannot conclusively prove that my worldview is for certain, THE worldview, so I must leave the option that it maybe wrong, and therefore my denial of God could consequently also be wrong."

Quoted words courtesy of voidx.


See how easy that is?


Looking even at Xianity, how many here (especially those with a Judeo-Xian background) truly believe at the 100% level -- Bible just trash fiction. 99.99999% doesn't actually = 100% imo.

[Brown]

It has been theorized that some early religious writings included the following ideas:

The Earth is a big ball.
The Sun is a star.
The Earth moves by revolving around the Sun, and also moves by rotating on an axis, and further moves by orbiting with the Moon.
Except for the Sun, stars are very, very far away.
All material things, even though they look different, are made of the same basic components.
The Earth is very, very old.
Marvelous creatures once roamed the Earth, but now they are all dead.
Slavery is morally evil.
Men and women ought to have equal rights in many areas.
Cruelty, being evil, is never condoned by God.
Do not confuse misfortune with divine punishment.

These writings, however, were rejected by the priests and church fathers as being "obviously wrong," and therefore not the Word of God. Or perhaps they were accepted, but the "obviously wrong" portions were edited to conform to the true intent of the Almighty.

[Wrath of the Swarm]

Originally posted by Brown
Slavery is morally evil.
Men and women ought to have equal rights in many areas.
Cruelty, being evil, is never condoned by God. I'm not sure you can lump these value judgments in with facts such as "the world is a giant ball".

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Hammy would have us start the Theory of Evolution with:

Well I'm a materialist physicalist so from that viewpoint God cannot exist, however I cannot conclusively prove that my worldview is for certain, THE worldview, so I must leave the option that it maybe wrong, and therefore my denial of God could consequently also be wrong.

Sounds good to me. I'd also add:

However, I have no idea WTF that has to do with the theory of evolution.

~~ Paul

[hammegk]

You probably don't; and that's part of the problem.

[Wrath of the Swarm]

There is no problem. Being a materialist doesn't rule out the possibility of minor 'gods', although it does basically rule out all those that commit genuine miracles. And none of this has anything to do with evolutionary theory.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by hammegk
Looking even at Xianity, how many here (especially those with a Judeo-Xian background) truly believe at the 100% level -- Bible just trash fiction. 99.99999% doesn't actually = 100% imo. Why exclude those with a Judeo-Christian background?

Anyway, why do you have such a hard time wrapping your mind around shades of grey? I honestly don't know understand how you function in your little binary black-and-white world. Real life must be a very scary thing for you.

[rachaella]

Originally posted by Yahweh

I would write the story Genesis Part 0. It would be one chapter long, the chapter one sentence in length, it would read like this:

<blockquote>1:1

Everything you are about to read is nothing but shameless lies.</blockquote>

You could even be more subtle

Please take what you read in the pages to come with a Jupiter-sized grain of salt.

[Some Friggin Guy]

"He suffered, died, and was buried.

"And on the third day, he rose again, as Rudy Welles told Oscar Goldman we can rebuild him. We can make him better; Stronger; Faster...

"And, lo did Jesus then become known as The Six-Million Dollar Man."

[plindboe]

It could use a disclaimer too.

"All characters portrayed within this book are fictitious and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental."

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Wrath of the Swarm
There is no problem. Being a materialist doesn't rule out the possibility of minor 'gods', although it does basically rule out all those that commit genuine miracles. And none of this has anything to do with evolutionary theory.
Others disagree; do you have faith the problem (and schism) is lessening in intensity?


Originally posted by Upchurch

Anyway, why do you have such a hard time wrapping your mind around shades of grey? I honestly don't know understand how you function in your little binary black-and-white world. Real life must be a very scary thing for you.

Why do you have such a hard time wrapping your mind around the concepts of Right and Wrong? Real life is sufficiently complex that your need to rationalize every decision to meet your whim-of-the-moment must be taxing (or per proverb, Interesting).


BTW, is the situation and conditions in Haiti evolution in action?

[Some Friggin Guy]

Originally posted by hammegk

Why do you have such a hard time wrapping your mind around the concepts of Right and Wrong? Real life is sufficiently complex that your need to rationalize every decision to meet your whim-of-the-moment must be taxing (or per proverb, Interesting).

I can't answer for anyone else, but I can answer for myself.

Too often, I have seen the words "good" and "evil" used without any regard to the truth behind them.

For example, Hilter is currently regarded as evil. While I will certainly not argue that, most non-persecuted Germans would have during his reign.

[Zero]

Originally posted by hammegk
Or an even simpler solution: start the Theory of Evolution with the comment ""Well I'm a materialist physicalist so from that viewpoint God cannot exist, however I cannot conclusively prove that my worldview is for certain, THE worldview, so I must leave the option that it maybe wrong, and therefore my denial of God could consequently also be wrong."

Quoted words courtesy of voidx.


See how easy that is?


Looking even at Xianity, how many here (especially those with a Judeo-Xian background) truly believe at the 100% level -- Bible just trash fiction. 99.99999% doesn't actually = 100% imo. What does evolution have to do with "God"? What does atheism have to do with either, in this context?

Do you actually have a point, or is this another broadcast from Bizarro World?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy

I can't answer for anyone else, but I can answer for myself.

Too often, I have seen the words "good" and "evil" used without any regard to the truth behind them.

For example, Hilter is currently regarded as evil. While I will certainly not argue that, most non-persecuted Germans would have during his reign. So, is there a standard by which all things are judged? Yea or nea? If not, then how would it be possible for any order (at all) to rise above the chaos?

In which case, although we may not be able to (clearly) ascertain it ourselves, there "must" be. And perhaps this is why we find the need for God and religion.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Iacchus
So, is there a standard by which all things are judged? Yea or nea? If not, then how would it be possible for any order (at all) to rise above the chaos?

In which case, although we may not be able to (clearly) ascertain it ourselves, there "must" be. And perhaps this is why we find the need for God and religion. There are psychological reasons for that outlook...religion is not the only way to answer those questions.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Zero

There are psychological reasons for that outlook...religion is not the only way to answer those questions. And yet without an exhaustive scientific study, it clearly seems to have that capability now doesn't it? ;)

[Zero]

Originally posted by Iacchus
And yet without an exhaustive scientific study, it clearly seems to have that capability now doesn't it? ;) Talking gibberish again? It suits you.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy


I can't answer for anyone else, but I can answer for myself.

Too often, I have seen the words "good" and "evil" used without any regard to the truth behind them.

For example, Hilter is currently regarded as evil. While I will certainly not argue that, most non-persecuted Germans would have during his reign.

Note that you did not "answer" my comment on Right and Wrong. Good v Evil is a different discussion, in that real world circumstances could force a Choice -- the lesser of two 2 evils -- as being Right. That does not make the (Wrong) dilemma you were forced to choose Right.

Did Good exist in Nazi Germany? I'd say yes too. Much much more Wrong, and in too many cases case Evil, occured imo.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Zero

Talking gibberish again? It suits you. Just another "retard" no doubt. ;)

[Zero]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Just another "retard" no doubt. ;) Look, if you ever post anything intelligent, let me know, ok? Until then, I'm gonna call it like I see it.