Benedict Arnold C.E.O.s- Kerry's take on U.S jobs shipped overseas

[michaellee]

John Kerry repeatedly uses the term "Benedict Arnold C.E.O.s" when speaking about U.S. companies that build offices on foreign soil and hire non-U.S. workers to fill the jobs Americans could be taking.

Why doesn't the media or anyone for that matter bring up the fact that Kerry's(wife Teresa's family) Heinz corporation has 22 offices located in the U.S., but also has 57, yes 57 offices all stock full of foreign workers in 57 different foreign countries? Is this not a bit hypocritical? Or is it just because he knows he can get away with making statements like this?

[crackmonkey]

Or that he gladly accepts donations from these Benedict Arnolds...

[specious_reasons]

NTW had a thread on this, too, I'll post my reply, minus the flame:

I haven't looked at the side of my ketchup bottle, but if you haven't noticed, Heinz,inc. is a global corporation. At least some of the product being made outside the US is being sold outside the US. Why is there a problem with this?

...and why should it be an issue, since Teresa Heinz isn't an executive OR a director in the company? She just has a lot of money and the name. I couldn't find her stake of ownership of the Heinz company, so I don't even know if she has an influence in the company as a stock holder.

BTW, as far as I can see, Heinz, inc has its corporate charter and headquarters in the US, which means they pay US taxes.

[Graham]

Heinz is a massive multinational corporation.

It would be a bit odd if they didn't have offices in other countries, don't you think?

Graham

[Zero]

Considering that they have #1 or #2 market position(according to their website) in over 50 countries, basically what they are doing is nothing different than what McDonalds does. It isn't a situation of an American company closing down American factories, and shipping foreign-made product back to US stores. The bottle of ketchup in my refrigerator was made in the USA.;)

[SRW]

Originally posted by Graham
Heinz is a massive multinational corporation.

It would be a bit odd if they didn't have offices in other countries, don't you think?

Graham


When the plant I worked at was shut down a new one opened in Ireland. And its your fault for job doing a job for $30,000 that I used to for... Oh never mind.

[specious_reasons]

It doesn't even matter if Heinz, Inc. made all of their products outside of the US and moved their headquarters to the Bahamas. Mrs. Heinz-Kerry does not represent the company in any significant fashion.

If anything, she's a significant stockholder, which I haven't even found proof of that.

[crackmonkey]

... and the fact that Kerry gladly takes funding from these 'Benedict Arnolds' with one hand while wagging his finger in their faces with the other hand? Typical Kerry...

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by Graham
Heinz is a massive multinational corporation.

It would be a bit odd if they didn't have offices in other countries, don't you think?

Graham

Well, I guess those companies which moved their HQ to other countries and hire foreign labor are also now multinational, too, then.

[specious_reasons]

Originally posted by crackmonkey
... and the fact that Kerry gladly takes funding from these 'Benedict Arnolds' with one hand while wagging his finger in their faces with the other hand? Typical Kerry...

...and who, exactly are these "Benedict Arnold CEOs" that you're writing about? C'mon, respond to my post...

Originally posted by LukeT
Well, I guess those companies which moved their HQ to other countries and hire foreign labor are also now multinational, too, then.

Are you referring to Heinz, Inc? The Heinz headquarters is in the US. Besides, I think I've already addressed the link between the Heinz company and Teresa Heinz.

BTW, you can find out exactly who gave "big money" to who:

www.tray.com

Find me one of these people and then I'll talk about Kerry's hypocrisy.

BTW:
Heinz-Kerry, Teresa
12/31/2003 $2,000.00
Pittsburgh, PA 15238
Heinz Foundation/Philanthropist -[Contribution]
JOHN KERRY FOR PRESIDENT INC.

[specious_reasons]

Oh - and it looks like most people who donated money in the '04 election, and listed their company as "heinz", "hj heinz" or "h.j. heinz" donated either to the company PAC or donated to....

Republicans.

[Lurker]

Crackmonkey, you are believing RNC spin points already.

Check out http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh022604.shtml for a detailed account fo what you read versus reality. That is, if reality is important to you.

Lurker

[crackmonkey]

A Benedict Arnold company that's supporting Kerry? Seagate, for one. The Howler is interesting... the fact that the offshore business wasn't performed EXCLUSIVELY by the firms connected to Kerry somehow exempts them from criticism? Only CEO contributions count as 'support' for a candidate?
Interesting spin...

[Evolver]

Originally posted by Lurker
Crackmonkey, you are believing RNC spin points already.

Check out http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh022604.shtml for a detailed account fo what you read versus reality. That is, if reality is important to you.

Lurker

You beat me to it, Lurker. Iwas going to post that link.

[crackmonkey]

Do you accept that site as being impartial? Do you suspend skepticism when politics are involved?
Do you seriously think that Kerry wouldn't take money from companies going offshore?

Read the entire article. I think it'll put your 'Howler' piece in a bit of perspective...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6884-2004Feb25.html

[specious_reasons]

Originally posted by crackmonkey
A Benedict Arnold company that's supporting Kerry? Seagate, for one.

What evil thing has Seagate done? The Seagate website is not very forthcoming.

[SRW]

Originally posted by specious_reasons


What evil thing has Seagate done? The Seagate website is not very forthcoming.


Seagate has been transferring most of their manufacturing jobs, overseas, Asia mainly. This has been going on for years.

[specious_reasons]

Originally posted by SRW

Seagate has been transferring most of their manufacturing jobs, overseas, Asia mainly. This has been going on for years.

Ok - so now we are getting somewhere. Seagate counts as a "Benedict Arnold" company. So, the non-hypocritical thing for Kerry to do would be to reject any donations from Seagate executives or it's employees?

[SRW]

Originally posted by specious_reasons


Ok - so now we are getting somewhere. Seagate counts as a "Benedict Arnold" company. So, the non-hypocritical thing for Kerry to do would be to reject any donations from Seagate executives or it's employees?

You don't see how the game is played do you?

If I were to donate $2,000 to Joe Buddits campain as myself Joe Voter, does it matter who I work for? No, does Joe Buddits have to know? Of course not.

How ever if I Larry finklestien owner of International Pipe and Ciramics or IP&C sent in a bag full of $2,000 checks from his employees with IP&C Stationary, do you think good old Joe Buddits knows that the money is really comming from IP&C?

[waitew]

Originally posted by specious_reasons
NTW had a thread on this, too, I'll post my reply, minus the flame:

I haven't looked at the side of my ketchup bottle, but if you haven't noticed, Heinz,inc. is a global corporation. At least some of the product being made outside the US is being sold outside the US. Why is there a problem with this?

...and why should it be an issue, since Teresa Heinz isn't an executive OR a director in the company? She just has a lot of money and the name. I couldn't find her stake of ownership of the Heinz company, so I don't even know if she has an influence in the company as a stock holder.

BTW, as far as I can see, Heinz, inc has its corporate charter and headquarters in the US, which means they pay US taxes.


BTW,if we were talking about a Bush would you have added the little,"which means they pay US taxes ",part..I think not...excuses,excuses!!Call it where you see it regardless of the letter next to the name!Until you can do that...shut up!!!.. & consistent.

[Regnad Kcin]

Originally posted by waitew
BTW,if we were talking about a Bush would you have added the little,"which means they pay US taxes ",part..I think not...excuses,excuses!!Call it where you see it regardless of the letter next to the name!Until you can do that...shut up!!!.. & consistent. And until you can be coherent...

[Regnad Kcin]

Originally posted by crackmonkey
Do you accept that site as being impartial?The Daily Howler primarily concerns itself with pointing out the inconsistencies and errors of the journalistic trade (not to mention the punditocracy). They display an admirable skeptical process in that their claims and charges are backed up (often to the point of overkill, IMO) with sources and evidence.

With this in mind, I've seen DH take the media to task over many things, including mistreatment of the current president and his administration.

[Graham]

Originally posted by Luke T.


Well, I guess those companies which moved their HQ to other countries and hire foreign labor are also now multinational, too, then.

Nice comeback, shame it has nothing to do with the matter in hand.

The Heinz corporation specifically is a massive, multinational corporation.

According to their website:

Heinz is the most international U.S.-based food company...with 150 number-one and number-two brands worldwide...Heinz brands are cultural icons, offering products for all age groups and tastes. Nearly 60 percent of the company's sales are outside the United States. The company's vision for the future is built on a commitment to leadership in brands and in profitability.

60% . . . outside the United States

If you take a look at a lot of their overseas offices, you'll notice they are producing local products for local markets. For instance, their facilities in South Africa are listed as:

H. J. HEINZ (Botswana) (Proprietary) LTD.
Formed 1988
Gaborone, Botswana

KGALAGADI SOAP INDUSTRIES (Pty) LTD.
Acquired 1988
Gaborone, Botswana

Factory: Gaborone
Major Product Lines: dishwashing liquid/laundry soap/toilet soap.
Brand Names and Trademarks: Botshelo/Kgalagadi/Marang/Ngwana/
Okavango/Olga/Oodi/Snow Kiss.

REFINED OIL PRODUCTS (Pty) LTD.
Formed 1987
Gaborone, Botswana

Factory: Gaborone
Major Product Line: vegetable oil.
Brand Name and Trademark: Olivine.

OLIVINE INDUSTRIES (Private) LIMITED
Acquired 1982
Harare, Zimbabwe

Factory: Harare
Major Product Lines: baker's fat/candles/canned foods/condiments/glycerine/
laundry soaps/margarines/protein meals/sauces/toilet soaps/vegetable oil.
Brand Names and Trademarks: Buttercup/Cartwrights/Colman's/Fortris/
Heinz/Helio/Holbrooks/Jade/Luna Candles/Olivine/Perfection/Ricco/Soyola.

CHEGUTU CANNERS (Pvt) LTD.
Established 1992
Chegutu, Zimbabwe

Factory: Chegutu
Major Product Lines: canned beans/ketchup/soup/vegetables.
Brand Name and Trademark: Heinz.

HEINZ SOUTH AFRICA (PTY) LTD.
Established 1995
Johannesburg, South Africa

HEINZ WELLINGTON'S (PTY) LTD.
Acquired 1997
Wellington, South Africa

Factories: Barvale; Benoni; Wellington
Major Product Lines: dehydrated vegetables/sauces.
Brand Name and Trademark: Wellington's

How much Botshelo dishwashing soap do you see on the shelves of Walmart?

Do you seriously think that just because Heinz is a US-based corporation they should be producing Botshelo and Kgalagadi in a factory in Missouri, shipping the raw materials in and the finished products back out to Africa?

Come on.

Graham

[Ed]

Originally posted by michaellee
John Kerry repeatedly uses the term "Benedict Arnold C.E.O.s" when speaking about U.S. companies that build offices on foreign soil and hire non-U.S. workers to fill the jobs Americans could be taking.



Got a better question for the media to ask.

Assuming the US companies are legally doing this, WTF made the tax laws? You? Me? Bush? No. The goddamn feeding at the public teat thousand term entitled pols like Mr. Kerry. If it is such a damn problem, where the hell was he, Mr. Elder Senate Statesman for that last 26 years?

[Zero]

Originally posted by Ed


Got a better question for the media to ask.

Assuming the US companies are legally doing this, WTF made the tax laws? You? Me? Bush? No. The goddamn feeding at the public teat thousand term entitled pols like Mr. Kerry. If it is such a damn problem, where the hell was he, Mr. Elder Senate Statesman for that last 26 years? Then you need to call to task your Republican majority as well...instead of singling out Kerry for it.

[Ed]

Originally posted by Zero
Then you need to call to task your Republican majority as well...instead of singling out Kerry for it.

Passage of the tax code was pretty bi-partisan. That is something they can all agree on: taking our money.

Anyhoo, Kerry brought it up.

[specious_reasons]

Originally posted by SRW

You don't see how the game is played do you?

If I were to donate $2,000 to Joe Buddits campain as myself Joe Voter, does it matter who I work for? No, does Joe Buddits have to know? Of course not.

How ever if I Larry finklestien owner of International Pipe and Ciramics or IP&C sent in a bag full of $2,000 checks from his employees with IP&C Stationary, do you think good old Joe Buddits knows that the money is really comming from IP&C?

I've been aware of this since 1996 - the first time I read Mother Jones' 400 - a list of the top donors. The #1 donor that year was a slimy billionaire who coerced the people doing business with him to donate money to Republican causes. (Just for balance, the #2 donor was Bill Lerach... a slimy lawyer who gives lots of money to Democrats to combat tort reform.)

But it doesn't answer the question: Is it hypocritical for Kerry to accept money from Seagate, since it has done something that Kerry has critized?

[epepke]

Originally posted by michaellee
John Kerry repeatedly uses the term "Benedict Arnold C.E.O.s" when speaking about U.S. companies that build offices on foreign soil and hire non-U.S. workers to fill the jobs Americans could be taking.

Why doesn't the media or anyone for that matter bring up the fact that Kerry's(wife Teresa's family) Heinz corporation has 22 offices located in the U.S., but also has 57, yes 57 offices all stock full of foreign workers in 57 different foreign countries? Is this not a bit hypocritical? Or is it just because he knows he can get away with making statements like this?

Hence Heinz 57.

You must have seen that teevee movie about Joe McCarthy, in which he uses Heinz sauce and then goes on to talk about 57 communists.

Actually, though, Heinz makes far more than 57 products and have for many decades. For a while, they put them into 57 arbitrary categories, but they gave that up some time in the 1970s.

[michaellee]

Wasn't Benedict Arnold admired as a War Hero and injured in battle before becoming a traitor? and some guy named Adolf was a WWI hero honored with all kinds of colorful medals too...

I digress.. can someone define Benedict Arnold C.E.O.? Can one earn a Master's degrees in this up and coming field? My new goal is to attain C.E.O. status at as many major corporations as I can. Then, one at a time, without thought to all of the hard work put in to attain that status; with complete disregard for: all the major stockholders, my wife and kids, and the newfound friendship with the Democratic party, I am going to outsource every job I can to as many foreign, underpaid, under productive workers as humanly possible all in an effort to make $3.2785 million per year instead of the paltry $2.590 million I made last year.

Only then will I have completed one of my life's goals, and I can now simply name my salary at another one of those evil multi-national U.S. corporations. Then I start again on my devine plan to keep the U.S. unemployment rate at record high levels while simultaneously gaining the admiration of our next President, Johnnie "Hero Heinz 57" Kerry. Teresa, please pass the ketchup.

[Zero]

Originally posted by michaellee
Wasn't Benedict Arnold admired as a War Hero and injured in battle before becoming a traitor? and some guy named Adolf was a WWI hero honored with all kinds of colorful medals too...

I digress.. can someone define Benedict Arnold C.E.O.? Can one earn a Master's degrees in this up and coming field? My new goal is to attain C.E.O. status at as many major corporations as I can. Then, one at a time, without thought to all of the hard work put in to attain that status; with complete disregard for: all the major stockholders, my wife and kids, and the newfound friendship with the Democratic party, I am going to outsource every job I can to as many foreign, underpaid, under productive workers as humanly possible all in an effort to make $3.2785 million per year instead of the paltry $2.590 million I made last year.

Only then will I have completed one of my life's goals, and I can now simply name my salary at another one of those evil multi-national U.S. corporations. Then I start again on my devine plan to keep the U.S. unemployment rate at record high levels while simultaneously gaining the admiration of our next President, Johnnie "Hero Heinz 57" Kerry. Teresa, please pass the ketchup. Are we to pretend this rant has some bearing on reality?

[michaellee]

No

[Zero]

Originally posted by michaellee
No Thank goodness...you sort of went off the deep end on that one.

[Tricky]

Just an update:

Snopes has sqashed this rumor now. (http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/heinz.asp)
Moreover, the Heinz Company's operations are not an example of the type of outsourcing that is currently a hot political issue (i.e., sending out work to offshore companies to provide services which a company might otherwise have employed its own staff to perform). Heinz is a U.S.-based global business which sells its products in dozens of other countries, and like other food companies it has to localize some of its production at factories located in its foreign market areas. (It makes little sense from either an economic or a freshness standpoint to be shipping fruits and vegetables and/or finished food products halfway around the world rather than producing them locally.) One wouldn't expect, for example, every can and bottle of Coca-Cola sold anywhere in the world — whether it be Australia, China, or Portugal — to be produced by U.S. bottlers.)

[specious_reasons]

Originally posted by Tricky
Just an update:

Snopes has sqashed this rumor now. (http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/heinz.asp)


I thought that we squashed it pretty well in this thread.