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Riddick
1st March 2004, 07:55 PM
my boss was dean of the university of nebraska business school for 20 years.

his daughter, last year as a junior, was the #1 collegiate physics student in the united states. she's now working on her doctorate in physics at the university of washington.

she's also a christian.

How you like 'dem apples?

P.S.
Galileo...christian.
Isaac Newton...christian.
Stephen Hawking...has kicked about the idea of God.
Da Vinci...converted when near death.
Michaelangelo...christian.

Phaycops
1st March 2004, 08:10 PM
A person's faith does not bear upon their ability to do sound science. The only problem is when someone's faith provides them answers that they then seek to prove, because this is not science. I call red herring.

Suezoled
1st March 2004, 08:16 PM
Yeah...so?

Oh, are you trying to say something like "Christians are smarter than aetheists/ agnostics/ Jewish/ Muslim/ Hindus/ Shintoists/ Buddhists/ Pagans/ Taoists/ Confucianists/ etc" because one person who happens to be part of a majority religion in the United States also is very good in physics this year? Who was she competing against, this contestant? Other US physics students, I am guessing, as the award was for "Best Physics Student in the US"? Does that make Christianity superior? A decent human being would say no, as the religion does not dictate the moral character of the person.

Uh huh. Can you try a little harder Riddick?

Oh, and the historical references: yes, research was done by people to prove the existence of god, and some folks got other conclusions, but it did not shake their faith. Good thing they never listened to the liminality of the Church (Galileo was put under house arrest for his assertions about such things as planetary motion, and was only treated kindly because he his was an influental house, and would have cause more trouble to boot him than to just keep an eye on him), and thus progress was made.

And people on the JREF board? Also kicked about the idea of god. And Riddick...some folks on this board believe.

Riddick
1st March 2004, 08:18 PM
still, isn't it a little bit disappointing she's not running around carrying the "atheist" flag?

Riddick
1st March 2004, 08:25 PM
i imagine she wasn't the only physics student in the competition.

i know how hard it can be for you guys to accept the notions of things. unfortunately, i don't have her score reports or her competitors on hand, so i can make a handy hyperlink to it.

you'll just have to believe :wink: what i tell you is true.

dmarker
1st March 2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Riddick
my boss was dean of the university of nebraska business school for 20 years.

his daughter, last year as a junior, was the #1 collegiate physics student in the united states. she's now working on her doctorate in physics at the university of washington.

she's also a christian.

How you like 'dem apples?

P.S.
Galileo...christian.
Isaac Newton...christian.
Stephen Hawking...has kicked about the idea of God.
Da Vinci...converted when near death.
Michaelangelo...christian.

Big deal. There are also brilliant physics students who practice hinduism, shinto, et. Does that mean anything?

By the way,
Einstein...Jew
Julius Salk, inventor of the polio vaccine, ...Jew
Thomas Jeferson...Deist

Who give a rat's behind? Seriously, if her work is good then her religion doesn't matter, if her work is bad her religion won't save her.

Dylab
1st March 2004, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by dmarker

Einstein...Jew


To be fair Einstein wasn't really a religious jew. He clearly stated that he didn't believe in a personal god.

I'm not sure but I believe Max Plank was also a Christian.


:tr:

Brian
1st March 2004, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Riddick
my boss was dean of the university of nebraska business school for 20 years.

his daughter, last year as a junior, was the #1 collegiate physics student in the united states. she's now working on her doctorate in physics at the university of washington.

she's also a christian.

How you like 'dem apples?

P.S.
Galileo...christian.
Isaac Newton...christian.
Stephen Hawking...has kicked about the idea of God.
Da Vinci...converted when near death.
Michaelangelo...christian.
I'm happy for this person. She's obviously quite gifted.
Hate the religon, love the religous.

Martin
1st March 2004, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by Riddick

Galileo...christian.
Isaac Newton...christian.
Stephen Hawking...has kicked about the idea of God.
Da Vinci...converted when near death.
Michaelangelo...christian.

On the other hand,

Riddick...christian.

Ah, well. Can't keep the pattern going forever.

Phaycops
1st March 2004, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by dmarker


Big deal. There are also brilliant physics students who practice hinduism, shinto, et. Does that mean anything?

By the way,
Einstein...Jew
Julius Salk, inventor of the polio vaccine, ...Jew
Thomas Jeferson...Deist



And let's not forget all the important scholarship done by the Muslims in astronomy and math.

Skeptic
1st March 2004, 08:45 PM
unfortunately, i don't have her score reports or her competitors on hand, so i can make a handy hyperlink to it.

So you don't have her tests, her competitors, or even what the details of the contest were, but you "know" she is the "top physics student in the country".

Quinn
1st March 2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Riddick
still, isn't it a little bit disappointing she's not running around carrying the "atheist" flag?

No. Why, is our collective lack of disappointment disappointing for you? If so, we could put on a little act where we pretend to get all huffy and flustered and say the kinds of silly, cartoonish things that some believers erroneously accuse us of saying, if it will make it easier for you. Here, I'll start.

*ahem*...

"What??? Well she's obviously not a REAL student of science then! This will never happen again once we succeed in our plot to force religion out of American society!"

There, did that help? I hope so, because it was quite fun for me -- kind of like living in a Chick tract for a moment.

C'mon everyone, it's fun! Who's next?

Phaycops
1st March 2004, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Quinn


"What??? Well she's obviously not a REAL student of science then! This will never happen again once we succeed in our plot to force religion out of American society!"


Hey, Quinn, are you still coming over later to have stem-cell slurpies? I have some more plans outlined to make schoolchildren all liberal gay communists!

Beleth
1st March 2004, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Riddick
still, isn't it a little bit disappointing she's not running around carrying the "atheist" flag? Not even slightly.

But it's obvious that that our lack of disappointment disappoints you.

Way to express those Christian morals, pal.

MLynn
1st March 2004, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Riddick
my boss was dean of the university of nebraska business school for 20 years.

his daughter, last year as a junior, was the #1 collegiate physics student in the united states. she's now working on her doctorate in physics at the university of washington.

she's also a christian.


There are many smart/together people who happen to be christians too. I hope she has examined why she believes the way she does. It might be interesting to talk with her. Riddick, you're feisty - I like you...

Riddick
1st March 2004, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Phaycops
And let's not forget all the important scholarship done by the Muslims in astronomy and math.
the muslims are the descendants of ishmael of the bible.

muslims believe in the same God.

Riddick
1st March 2004, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Beleth
Not even slightly.

But it's obvious that that our lack of disappointment disappoints you.
do you believe that?

Riddick
1st March 2004, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Martin


On the other hand,

Riddick...christian.

Ah, well. Can't keep the pattern going forever.
Riddick...christian.

Riddick is a world class slalom skier, holding an open class rating of 36th.

Martin
1st March 2004, 09:09 PM
Riddick is also an idiot.

Suezoled
1st March 2004, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Riddick

the muslims are the descendants of ishmael of the bible.

muslims believe in the same God.

heh. No they don't. If they did, they're be Christians and they wouldn't read the Koran.

Bjorn
1st March 2004, 09:45 PM
#1 physics student in nation is a woman ... :( well, that finally proves ..... whatever.

The Bad Astronomer
1st March 2004, 09:51 PM
Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Pride goeth before the fall.

Wrath of the Swarm
1st March 2004, 09:59 PM
Technically, the warning to "judge not" continues on to state that you'll be judged by the same standards you apply to others.

Judging justly isn't forbidden. The key is to question whether your own judgments are just or not.

espritch
1st March 2004, 10:05 PM
Just as a point, I was a Christian when I first went to college and was still right up to the end of my junior year.

When I was a child I spoke as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things. Just because she's a Christian now doesn't necessarily mean she will remain one. A lot of people loose their faith when they get to college and find out a lot of the things they were taught as children don't actually appear to jibe with reality.

Riddick
1st March 2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Suezoled
heh. No they don't. If they did, they're be Christians and they wouldn't read the Koran.
christians and muslims believe in the same god.

the muslims wrote the koran.

the muslims are the descendants of the family of ishmael, which is the family of abraham of the bible.

Riddick
1st March 2004, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Wrath of the Swarm
Technically, the warning to "judge not" continues on to state that you'll be judged by the same standards you apply to others.

Judging justly isn't forbidden. The key is to question whether your own judgments are just or not.
yes, my favorite verses, matt 7:1,2.

you had it mostly, but a slight variation: what its actually trying to get across is that christ will judge you according to the way you judged others.

so your place in eternity, to some degree, hinges on how you judge others.

(S)
1st March 2004, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Riddick
so your place in eternity, to some degree, hinges on how you judge others.
It's nice to know then that conservatives will get their comeupons ...

Checkmite
1st March 2004, 11:00 PM
I have never met, in my entire life, a single person - regardless of his or her own religious or areligious beliefs - who was disappointed, crestfallen, or even slightly annoyed that "so many Christians were big important scientists". It doesn't matter. Nobody cares.

(S)
1st March 2004, 11:06 PM
Snide remarks aside, what is the point of this?

It cannot be to justify Christianity through the achievements of [some of] its members. You will be hard pressed to find any atheist/non-theist/whatever of the opinion "All Christians are evil and their contributions to the world are meaningless." [And if you do, tell him he owes me another game of chess. But aside from him--] Very few non-theists have any problem with other people having religions. Their beliefs -- both the theists and the atheists -- are personal things.

Is it because you think that some poor, damned soul among us will see your list, think, "Well I'll be! Newton was a Christian, Newton was a bad-ass, and I want to be a bad-ass too, so I'd best renounce my life of sin and convert to Christianity!" That is rather unlikely. Almost to a man, we arrived at our beliefs in a personal way, not because it was the cool thing to do. Few are likely to be swayed away from their beliefs for the sake of peer pressure.

Is this then a pissing contest, a 'my belief system has larger genitalia than your belief system'? Well, then, let's make it interesting. We can appoint a council to officiate -- I'm sure it shouldn't be too hard to make an unbiased panel representing the full sprectrum of Earth's religions -- and set up official categories. We can judge the relative contributions of every major religion's members, with breakdowns for major sects and denominations of these religions, on a variety of categories. In the Sciences, Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, and Biology, are obvious main categories, perhaps with Astronomy, Geology, and a few others thrown in. The Arts also need to be addressed. Sculpture, Dance, Music, Painting, et cetera. Social contributions are a plus. Engineering? The architects of the tallest buildings, longest bridges, as well as significant machines [Airplanes, rockets, computers]. I'm sure with a few more categories, it could become quite a definitive measure of the worth of various belief systems. There are a few wrinkles to be ironed out, though. For instance, who gets da Vinci?

Kopji
1st March 2004, 11:18 PM
Jesus was Jewish.

LFTKBS
1st March 2004, 11:23 PM
Looking forward to calling up UNLincoln tomorrow.

T'ai Chi
1st March 2004, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Riddick
my boss was dean of the university of nebraska business school for 20 years.

his daughter, last year as a junior, was the #1 collegiate physics student in the united states. she's now working on her doctorate in physics at the university of washington.

she's also a christian.

How you like 'dem apples?

P.S.
Galileo...christian.
Isaac Newton...christian.
Stephen Hawking...has kicked about the idea of God.
Da Vinci...converted when near death.
Michaelangelo...christian.

Riddick,

I am a philosophical Daoist and I am happy for her accomplishments.

Kopji
1st March 2004, 11:46 PM
Hee hee...
To be an intelligent and successful woman in Nebraska must be tough enough without being an atheist too. :D

I agree with Tai Chi though. Good for her.

We'll be checking to see if this is really true, that's the problem with skeptics.

PS: Tha't quite a list of 'Christians'.

epepke
1st March 2004, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Riddick
still, isn't it a little bit disappointing she's not running around carrying the "atheist" flag?

No.

Next question?

neutrino_cannon
2nd March 2004, 12:07 AM
Science and Religion are only incompatable when one, the other or both are being very silly.

The fact that many of the greatest minds of all time belong to the most prevalant religion and not to mine (if it is one) comes as no suprise or disapointment, and in fact only reenforces my conviction that religion and science ought have nothing to do with each other. One who can practice faith and still be a very serious scientist is a ray of hope in an increasingly silly world.

Quasi
2nd March 2004, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Riddick
still, isn't it a little bit disappointing she's not running around carrying the "atheist" flag?

Not at all, three out of the four of the best scientists I know are theists, one a Mormon, one a Hindu and the other Xtian. All are well known in their fields and two hold faculty positions at the best science institutions, the other is in biotechnology industry. The question is whether they are good skeptics, regardless of faith. Right now in the US, skepticism is frowned on and irrational thinking is praised. This is the problem.

varwoche
2nd March 2004, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by Riddick
...his daughter, last year as a junior, was the #1 collegiate physics student in the united states. she's now working on her doctorate in physics at the university of washington.
she's also a christian.
Big deal, there's excess time to study when you're not smoking reefer, screwing the football team, and otherwise raising hell, no pun intended. :p

varwoche

Abdul Alhazred
2nd March 2004, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Riddick

the muslims are the descendants of ishmael of the bible.


A spurious genealogy fostered by Muhammad.

The Bible doesn't say so.

Whenever Arabs are mentioned in pre-Islamic antiquity, they are living in Arabia and not fighting anybody.

Tez
2nd March 2004, 01:09 AM
I'm with espritch on this one.

As a child your religion is a reflection of your upbringing.

I will be disappointed if this girl stays a physicist and a christian. I've known around 10 or so people who were christians (mostly born again, but a few strict catholics) when they started studying physics, but who were apostate by the time they ended grad school. Also known two orthodox Jews (wore the penguin outfits and everything!) who deconverted. In fact, I personally only know of one exception to this general trend (and I know a lot of physicists...) Interestingly, most become somewhat radical in their atheism, presumably because you feel annoyed at having been fooled half (or more) of your life...

So, go tell your boss he has likely condemned his daughter by letting her out into the real world of thinking people. Perhaps he should send her to a nice christian college (stacks of them in the states) where her soul will be safe, while her brain undergoes eternal torment...

Oleron
2nd March 2004, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Riddick
still, isn't it a little bit disappointing she's not running around carrying the "atheist" flag?

Yes it is.

Well, it's what you wanted to hear,isn't it?

I'm just gutted.

Oleron
2nd March 2004, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by Riddick

the muslims are the descendants of ishmael of the bible.

muslims believe in the same God.

Two religions for the price of one!

Why have you not listed all the smart Muslims? Or do Christians count as Muslims now?

slimshady2357
2nd March 2004, 05:10 AM
Riddick, I assume from your posts that if this person was an atheist, you would be very disappointed she was not carrying the 'christian flag'?

Why is that?

Why are you so intolerant of other people's beliefs? And why do you assume other people are as intolerant as you?

I'm just curious as to why you do not act like a christian.

Adam

Suezoled
2nd March 2004, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by Riddick

christians and muslims believe in the same god.

the muslims wrote the koran.

the muslims are the descendants of the family of ishmael, which is the family of abraham of the bible.

Muslims don't believe in the Christian god. they come from the same root stock, so to say, but their beliefs diverged as did their concept of god.

Anyone for a nice piece of ham? I got it on sale at the local grocery.... smoked and everything.

neutrino_cannon
2nd March 2004, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Oleron


Two religions for the price of one!

Why have you not listed all the smart Muslims? Or do Christians count as Muslims now?

Tangential to that, I have heard/read that during the crusades, the finest textiles that could be obtained were from the Middle East, and since many painters wishes to show Mary et al. dressed in fine, location appropriate textiles, they used these as guides when painting.

Only problem was, there were frequently koranic (is that a word?) inkings on the textiles, so often Mary et al would wear Allah's own slogans on their clothing. There is no God but Allah (God) and the like. Pretty funny if you ask me.

It would be like Bill gates being caught using an i-mac, or something like that.

Larspeart
2nd March 2004, 10:13 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Suezoled
[B]Yeah...so?

Oh, are you trying to say something like "Christians are smarter than aetheists/ agnostics/ Jewish/ Muslim/ Hindus/ Shintoists/ Buddhists/ Pagans/ Taoists/ Confucianists/ etc" because one person who happens to be part of a majority religion in the United States also is very good in physics this year? Who was she competing against, this contestant? Other US physics students, I am guessing, as the award was for "Best Physics Student in the US"? Does that make Christianity superior? A decent human being would say no, as the religion does not dictate the moral character of the person.


Um, no. I think what was being implied here was that a person CAN be a Christian AND smart AND in a hard science field. I don't think any implication was made that they are somehow smartER.

The attitude on this board is that the moment someone states they are Christian, they will never be taken seriously, and will thus forever be used only for ridicule.

Stinks of hypocrisy, especially amongst a board of so-called skeptics.

Suezoled
2nd March 2004, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Larspeart
(snipped)


Um, no. I think what was being implied here was that a person CAN be a Christian AND smart AND in a hard science field. I don't think any implication was made that they are somehow smartER.

The attitude on this board is that the moment someone states they are Christian, they will never be taken seriously, and will thus forever be used only for ridicule.

Stinks of hypocrisy, especially amongst a board of so-called skeptics. [/B]

It's already known you can believe Christian, AND be smart, AND be in a hard science. As for what Riddick is trying to say... he can clarify what he meant by starting the whole thing.

On this board some will ridicule Christians. But I really don't think most people care about one's personal belief system in terms of religion: if you're an assh*le like Riddick is acting, you're gonna get smacked.

And that is human reaction without hypocrisy.

Johnny Pneumatic
2nd March 2004, 11:09 AM
Riddick this is the science forum. Take your BS to R/P.

just for fun

Gould-atheist
Asimov-atheist
Darwin-agnostic
Dawkins-atheist

about 60% of scientists are atheist

Phaycops
2nd March 2004, 11:21 AM
What is all this about an "atheist flag"? What does it look like? Where can I get one?

Suezoled
2nd March 2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Phaycops
What is all this about an "atheist flag"? What does it look like? Where can I get one?


it sort of looks like Johnny the Homicidal Maniac when he is telling Squee a bedtime story.

Nyarlathotep
2nd March 2004, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Riddick
my boss was dean of the university of nebraska business school for 20 years.

his daughter, last year as a junior, was the #1 collegiate physics student in the united states. she's now working on her doctorate in physics at the university of washington.

she's also a christian.

How you like 'dem apples?

P.S.
Galileo...christian.
Isaac Newton...christian.
Stephen Hawking...has kicked about the idea of God.
Da Vinci...converted when near death.
Michaelangelo...christian.

Your point being? I gurantee that if she is the "#1 physics student" in the country (however you measure that), her physics work does NOT boil down to "goddidit". Her beliefs and her work are two seperate things.

as for your P.S. it is also meaningless. All of them but Hawking lived at a time when being an atheist was hazardous to ones health (and I know for a fact that Newton also beleived in things that were nutty even for his time, i.e. he was one of the last proponents of alchemy). As for Hawking, he HAS kicked about the idea of a god, but not as part of his work and the concept that he kicked around is much more deistic than Christian.

Nice appeal to authority though, bravo.

T'ai Chi
2nd March 2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
Riddick this is the science forum. Take your BS to R/P.

just for fun

Gould-atheist
Asimov-atheist
Darwin-agnostic
Dawkins-atheist

about 60% of scientists are atheist

I am aware that Asimov taught biochemistry, but what science did Asimov do actually?

ceo_esq
2nd March 2004, 12:54 PM
For anyone who's interested, one of the liveliest and most in-depth discussions we've ever had on the forum about the relationship between science and religion can be found in this thread:

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24015

Technically the floor is still open, if anyone feels inspired to revive the thread.

tedly
2nd March 2004, 12:55 PM
I was pulling vol 21 of the Skeptical Inquirer at the local U for a reply to another thread and fell across a note in issue 5 (Sep/Oct I think) that quoted a study in '96 that replicated a study in '16. Both showed that 40% of American scientists believed in god. Interestingly the take of the '16 study was that 60%!! didn't believe and that this spelled the end of TWAWKI.

About less than half of Americans belong to a Christian church, and slightly more than half to any religious organisation so scientists aren't much different from the population as a whole. [/blindingly obvious off]

(S)
2nd March 2004, 01:05 PM
Asimov did a little [bio]chem research [he worked on dyes that pilots would dispense if they were downed over water, so that they could be spotted from the air, during WWII].

He was mainly a 'proponent of science', though. He wrote books about science -- good books, not some of the glitter books they sell now -- that were easy to understand. Good to give laymen a decent understanding of physics, mathematics, chemistry, etc etc etc, and also good for any youngun's who are interested in science. If you have children, if you know children, if you occassionally pass children in the street, you owe it to them, to yourself, to their parents, to us, to humanity, to buy them copies of Asimov's books. I still have a copy of his book on physics, which I keep enshrined and pray to on a regular basis.

And if you're completely out of the loop [damn kids], he was also the greatest sf author who ever lived, ever.

Skeptical Greg
2nd March 2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Riddick

yes, my favorite verses, matt 7:1,2.

you had it mostly, but a slight variation: what its actually trying to get across is that christ will judge you according to the way you judged others.




Oh, so it doesn't have anything to do with how you treat others?


You are such a shining example, and remind me of one of the reasons I am not a Christian... I'm sure Jesus is proud of you...

Wrath of the Swarm
2nd March 2004, 03:06 PM
I would have to disagree with the claim that you can be a good scientists and a good Christian. Science and religious faith rely on totally different ways of thinking. They're not really compatible - I'm sure people who are really good at compartmentalization can keep them apart, but they can't be combined.

MLynn
2nd March 2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Bjorn
#1 physics student in nation is a woman ... :( well, that finally proves ..... whatever.

What. That women can kick butt in science, too?

Bjorn
2nd March 2004, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by MLynn
What. That women can kick butt in science, too? No, it proves nothing. Just like the fact that she is a Christian. :p

Ladewig
2nd March 2004, 06:21 PM
*ahem*...

"What??? Well she's obviously not a REAL student of science then! This will never happen again once we succeed in our plot to force religion out of American society!"

There, did that help? I hope so, because it was quite fun for me -- kind of like living in a Chick tract for a moment.

I would have posted sooner, but I figured if I were going to talk like a Chick tract character, I should dress as one too. Now that I am wearing my college-professor type tweed sport coat, rainbow flag label pin, and communist party armband, I'll have a go. "What?! I cannot understand it. We have proved that the religion of secular humanism is superior. She must be a closet atheist and anyone who disagrees is an atheiophobe."

Yahweh
2nd March 2004, 06:37 PM
#1 physics student in nation is a christian
Good for her :)

Zep
2nd March 2004, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by Riddick

Riddick...christian.

Riddick is a world class slalom skier, holding an open class rating of 36th. Wow! Those two points just go so naturally together like ...


ummm...


C'mon, folks - help me here.

Riddick
2nd March 2004, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by slimshady2357
Riddick, I assume from your posts that if this person was an atheist, you would be very disappointed she was not carrying the 'christian flag'?

Why is that?

Why are you so intolerant of other people's beliefs? And why do you assume other people are as intolerant as you?

I'm just curious as to why you do not act like a christian.

Adam
i've noticed how christians take the butt end of jokes around these parts.

so i thought i'd serve a little humble pie.

i'm sure you'll get used to the taste.

Wrath of the Swarm
2nd March 2004, 07:08 PM
Turn the other cheek, Riddick.

Not that you actually bother putting any of those teachings into practice... which is a large part of why "Christians" have such a poor reputation here.

Zep
2nd March 2004, 07:09 PM
So the top science student in the USA is (a) a girl, and (b) a Christian? Wow, what can I say? How about "I'm underwhelmed".

First, it really rocks that a girl is the top student in anything, let alone science. Kudos to her for that, at the very least.

Second, she's a "Christian"? Would that be a "Christian" like Hal or KittenNH? Or a "Christian" like Kent Hovind, Jack Chick or Fred Phelps? I take it you do understand the differences here... Yes? Or maybe you don't. No, guess you don't...

slimshady2357
2nd March 2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Riddick

i've noticed how christians take the butt end of jokes around these parts.

so i thought i'd serve a little humble pie.

i'm sure you'll get used to the taste.

I can assure you, I am already quite used to the taste :)

I cannot recall ever tasting it at the hands of a hypocrite such as yourself though.

Adam

espritch
2nd March 2004, 07:34 PM
I would have posted sooner, but I figured if I were going to talk like a Chick tract character, I should dress as one too. Now that I am wearing my college-professor type tweed sport coat, rainbow flag label pin, and communist party armband, I'll have a go. "What?! I cannot understand it. We have proved that the religion of secular humanism is superior. She must be a closet atheist and anyone who disagrees is an atheiophobe."

Wow! It's like you're chanelling Chick! :D :D :D

Jas
2nd March 2004, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Zep
So the top science student in the USA is (a) a girl, and (b) a Christian? Wow, what can I say? How about "I'm underwhelmed".

First, it really rocks that a girl is the top student in anything, let alone science. Kudos to her for that, at the very least.

Second, she's a "Christian"? Would that be a "Christian" like Hal or KittenNH? Or a "Christian" like Kent Hovind, Jack Chick or Fred Phelps? I take it you do understand the differences here... Yes? Or maybe you don't. No, guess you don't...

I think it would have been extra hard for her to succeed, being a girl (which can be quite an obstacle to begin with), and depending on what sort of Christian home she came from.

Quasi
3rd March 2004, 08:50 AM
Yes, all good points, it is intolerant christians, atheists and others that get me. Remember Mel Gibson insinuating his wife, who he admits is a better person than he is, is going to hell because she is not Catholic? I also know a guy who grew up in the Middle East who was told that all humans are born Muslim, but that they turn against the true faith... Ok, so they are all mutually exclusive. Are they all right? How can they all be correct? Solve that one, and there is a nobel prize in there for ya.

(S)
3rd March 2004, 10:46 AM
I'm sure we can pull [the misperception of] quantum mechanics in there some how. "The wave function of the One True Religion has not yet collapsed; it is both religion X and religion Y and religion Z simultaneously." Or something like.

Bjorn
3rd March 2004, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Quasi
Yes, all good points, it is intolerant christians, atheists and others that get me. Remember Mel Gibson insinuating his wife, who he admits is a better person than he is, is going to hell because she is not Catholic? If one is a catholic, and this religion believes that only catholics can go to heaven, isn't he just perfectly logical?

Personally, I'm more confused by people who seem to have some shopping-mall approach - 'Yes, I'm a catholic, but I still believe in reincarnation" ..... :con2:

Dragonrock
3rd March 2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Riddick

the muslims are the descendants of ishmael of the bible.

muslims believe in the same God.

I'm a decendant of a German jew, I'm also decended from a German catholic. Hitler was a catholic, so do I want to exterminate myself? I'm also a decendant of a Cherokee indian. That must mean I'm really confused. Of course I'm also a decendant of an osteichthyes so does that mean I can breathe water? Who a person's great grand parents are is not the sole determiner of what they believe.

Try asking a muslim what they believe, don't tell them what they believe based on who their daddy was.

Phaycops
3rd March 2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Riddick

the muslims are the descendants of ishmael of the bible.

muslims believe in the same God.

Ok, so I have realized what it is about this that bothers me. It's not ok to NOT believe in ANY god, but it IS ok to follow a (from your point of view) false prophet as long as you're sort of still on the right track? And why is this relevant information? If ANY god is ok, you must be some kind of Xtian I've never heard of before.

Oleron
4th March 2004, 02:42 AM
Originally posted by neutrino_cannon



It would be like Bill gates being caught using an i-mac, or something like that.

Why would he use an i-mac when he has Windows XP? After all he's the only one rich enough to afford the XP license.

Quasi
4th March 2004, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by Bjorn
If one is a catholic, and this religion believes that only catholics can go to heaven, isn't he just perfectly logical?

Personally, I'm more confused by people who seem to have some shopping-mall approach - 'Yes, I'm a catholic, but I still believe in reincarnation" ..... :con2:

Yes, Mel is being consistent, however Riddik believes that Muslims worship the same God. Oh, and that little thing about Jesus not being terribly important in Islam, and Xtians not believing at all in Mohammed? Hmmm, just a minor detail I guess. It is not christians who are questioned and or challenged at this site, but people who believe dogma which contradicts that which can and has been empirically proven false through direct experimentation. Therefore, Intelligent Design, Creationism are false, the tenets are disproven, and those who push them have some sort of financial agenda or are patsys of those who do. Same with homeopathy etc. Its garbage, and we will continue to bring up the same points which disprove those belief systems. Does this clear it up?

Lothian
4th March 2004, 03:33 AM
It is a ridiculous notion that because someone who topped an exam is a Christian it means that the whole of Christianity is correct. I trust she didn’t rely on the bible to workout any formula containing pi !

However could someone please explain to someone ignorant of American education.

How can someone be top in the USA. In the Uk there are many different exam boards all teaching and testing different syllabuses (syllabi ?).

Does every American Physics student take the same exam ?

Are the results published and how do you score ? In the UK you get a grade (A B C etc) each grade covering a range of marks. Actual percentages or scores are not given.

Interesting that 40% of American scientists believe in god, when the percentage of Americans believe in god is much much higher…. But the non believers must all be wrong because this girl is the best physics student…

Why pick on scientists beliefs? The bible is more a tale of morals than science. Perhaps we should start a list of Christian mass murderers. I’ll kick off – God.

Fishboot
4th March 2004, 03:50 AM
What's with all these weak flake responses to a post that posits that an unnamed woman at an unnamed school was the "#1 physics student in the nation last year" is a "Christian"? Name, college, criterion for "#1"-ness, criterion for "Christian"ness, please. Or omit the name, if you like.

I hope you aren't hanging your hopes on someone working on Big Bang science or something - no one would dispute that a Deist-ish Christian can do science, just a young-earth/ flood-was-real/ Satan-hid-dinosaur-bones-in-the-ground type.

Oleron
4th March 2004, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Riddick
my boss was dean of the university of nebraska business school for 20 years.

his daughter, last year as a junior, was the #1 collegiate physics student in the united states. she's now working on her doctorate in physics at the university of washington.

she's also a christian.

How you like 'dem apples?

P.S.
Galileo...christian.
Isaac Newton...christian.
Stephen Hawking...has kicked about the idea of God.
Da Vinci...converted when near death.
Michaelangelo...christian.

I know a Christian who is as thick as pigsh*t. So there.

(Well, it's as good as Riddick's argument!)

Mark
4th March 2004, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Suezoled


heh. No they don't. If they did, they're be Christians and they wouldn't read the Koran.

Christ was in the New Testament. Yes, Muslims do believe in the same OldTestament God.

Bjorn
4th March 2004, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Quasi


Yes, Mel is being consistent, however Riddik believes that Muslims worship the same God. Oh, and that little thing about Jesus not being terribly important in Islam, and Xtians not believing at all in Mohammed? Hmmm, just a minor detail I guess. It is not christians who are questioned and or challenged at this site, but people who believe dogma which contradicts that which can and has been empirically proven false through direct experimentation. Therefore, Intelligent Design, Creationism are false, the tenets are disproven, and those who push them have some sort of financial agenda or are patsys of those who do. Same with homeopathy etc. Its garbage, and we will continue to bring up the same points which disprove those belief systems. Does this clear it up? Clear up what? :)

The auditor inside me just wanted to point out that a man who believes in a religion, and boldly states that such-and-such are the consequences for those who don't - according to the religion - is at least consistent.

As for the rest of the quote, it's fine with me. :p

DangerousBeliefs
4th March 2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Riddick
his daughter, last year as a junior, was the #1 collegiate physics student in the united states. she's now working on her doctorate in physics at the university of washington.

You know, I've never heard of a collegiate ranking for students.

Perhaps, you could provide a reference?

If not, then I have a friend who is the janior for the President of MIT and his cousin's son is the #1 collegiate chemistry student in the United States.

And he's a homosexual pagan!

epepke
4th March 2004, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Riddick

i've noticed how christians take the butt end of jokes around these parts.

so i thought i'd serve a little humble pie.

i'm sure you'll get used to the taste.

It's "umble pie."

And you thought you were serving up what you thought was umble pie.

However, from the responses, it is overwhelmingly obvious that we don't give a wet slap.

If you want to counter Christians' being the butt end of jokes, come up with some good jokes with Atheists as the butt end. I must admit I haven't heard too many good ones, other than the "there is no light bulb" one.

J Coplen
4th March 2004, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Riddick
my boss was dean of the university of nebraska business school for 20 years.

his daughter, last year as a junior, was the #1 collegiate physics student in the united states. she's now working on her doctorate in physics at the university of washington.

she's also a christian.

How you like 'dem apples?



And who says she's the #1 physics student?

Mark
5th March 2004, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by DangerousBeliefs


And he's a homosexual pagan!

I'll bet he has some wild parties.

(S)
5th March 2004, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by epepke
If you want to counter Christians' being the butt end of jokes, come up with some good jokes with Atheists as the butt end. I must admit I haven't heard too many good ones, other than the "there is no light bulb" one.
A local priest and a pastor were fishing on the side of the road. They thoughtfully made a sign saying, "The End is Near! Turn yourself around now before it's too late!" and showed it to each passing car.

One driver who drove by didn't appreciate the sign and shouted at them, "Leave us alone, you religious nuts!"

All of a sudden they heard a big splash, looked at each other, and the priest said to the pastor, "You think maybe we should have just said 'Bridge Out' instead?"