NASA and the Space Shuttle

[Supercharts]

Other than putting the Hubble into orbit and repairing it I think this NASA program is a waste of money. If the US had spent the $'s on that super collider in Texas we would have had much more science and benefit.

[garys_2k]

Yeah, from a basic science pov its not a big player. Its a "shuttle," a way of going to and from a place. Its really not supposed to be a "science research" vessel in and of itself.

Besides Hubble, the Space Station wouldn't exist without it and we're way too early to see if that will yield any dividends for pure science.

I can't compare space work to the SCSC, different things.

[Mark]

We're not spending enough on science research in general. Taking money from NASA to play for something else is a silly idea; there are a LOT better places to take money from.

Use the money to feed and shelter people.

[Mark]

Use the money to feed and shelter people.

This idiotic comment has been effectively refuted so many times and in so many places, it almost defies belief that someone would still try to make it. The money spent on entitlement programs in this country is so VASTLY higher than what is spent on the space program, that even if we took every nickel NASA has, it would just be a drop in the bucket.

Plus, there is technology that we ALL enjoy as a result of space research...including medical benefits.

Try this link if you are interested in actually informing yourself, rather than just parroting bulls***.

http://www.fas.org/news/usa/2000/usa-001012.htm

[RichardR]

Originally posted by garys_2k
Yeah, from a basic science pov its not a big player. Its a "shuttle," a way of going to and from a place. Its really not supposed to be a "science research" vessel in and of itself.

Besides Hubble, the Space Station wouldn't exist without it and we're way too early to see if that will yield any dividends for pure science. Anyone want to tell me what benefits we have got from the space station so far? Apart from circular ones, such as we now know more about living in space.

----
Try this link if you are interested in actually informing yourself, rather than just parroting bulls***.
----


Yikes.

[Mark]

Yikes.

Yeah, sorry for the beligerant tone. It's just that I have head this canard so many, many times, it frustrates me no end. Still, that's no excuse for bad manners. My bad.

Anyone want to tell me what benefits we have got from the space station so far? Apart from circular ones, such as we now know more about living in space.

OK, since you don't want to go to the link by yourself...


3-D Biotechnology

Developed for Space Shuttle medical research, a rotating cell-culture
device simulates the microgravity of space. This allows researchers to
grow cells in three dimensions. The device may one day help
researchers find cures for dangerous infectious diseases and offer
alternatives to patients who need organ transplant surgery.


Artificial Heart

Technology used in Space Shuttle fuel pumps led to the development of
a miniaturized ventricular-assist pump by NASA and renowned heart
surgeon Dr. Michael DeBakey. The tiny pump, a mere two inches long,
one inch in diameter, and weighing less than four ounces, is currently
undergoing clinical trials in Europe, where it has been successfully
implanted into more than 20 people.


Blood Serum Research

An astronaut's body, once free of gravity's pull, experiences a
redistribution of body fluids that can lead to a decrease in the
number of red blood cells and produce a form of space anemia.
Monitoring and evaluating blood serum was required to understand these
phenomena. However, existing blood-analysis technology required the
use of a centrifugation technology that was not practical in space.
NASA developed new technologies for the collection and real-time
analysis of blood as well as other bodily fluids without the need for
centrifugation.


Artificial Limbs

Responding to a request from the orthopedic-appliance industry, NASA
recommended that the foam insulation used to protect the Shuttle's
external tank replace the heavy, fragile plaster used to produce
master molds for prosthetics. The new material is light, virtually
indestructible, and easy to ship and store.


Lifesaving Light

Special lighting technology developed for plant-growth experiments on
Space Shuttle missions is now used to treat brain tumors in children.
Doctors at the Medical College of Wisconsin in Milwaukee use
light-emitting diodes in a treatment called photodynamic therapy, a
form of chemotherapy, to kill cancerous tumors.


Taking Temperatures

Infrared sensors developed to remotely measure the temperature of
distant stars and planets for the Space Shuttle program led to the
development of the hand-held optical sensor thermometer. Placed inside
the ear canal, the thermometer provides an accurate reading in two
seconds or less.


Better Balance

Devices built to measure the equilibrium of Space Shuttle astronauts
when they return from space are now widely used by major medical
centers to diagnose and treat patients suffering head injury, stroke,
chronic dizziness and disorders of the central nervous system.


Faster Diagnostics

NASA technology was used to create a compact laboratory instrument for
hospitals and doctor offices. This device quickly analyzes blood,
accomplishing in 30 seconds what once took 20 minutes with
conventional equipment.


Land Mine Removal

The same rocket fuel that helps launch the Space Shuttle is now being
used to save lives -- by destroying land mines. A flare device, using
leftover fuel donated by NASA, is placed next to the uncovered land
mine and is ignited from a safe distance using a battery-triggered
electric match. The explosive burns away, disabling the mine and
rendering it harmless.


Tracking Vehicles on Earth

Tracking information originally used for Space Shuttle missions now
helps track vehicles here on the ground. This commercial spin-off
allows vehicles to transmit a signal back to a home base. Many cities
today use the software to track and reassign emergency and public
works vehicles. The technology also is used by vehicle fleet
operations, such as taxis, armored cars and vehicles carrying
hazardous cargo.


Rescue 911

Rescue squads have a new extrication tool to help remove accident
victims from wrecked vehicles. The hand-held device requires no
auxiliary power systems or cumbersome hoses and is 70 percent cheaper
than previous rescue equipment. The cutter uses a miniature version of
the explosive charges that separate devices on the Space Shuttle.


Byte Out of Crime

Image-processing technology used to analyze Space Shuttle launch
videos and to study meteorological images also helps law enforcement
agencies improve crime-solving videos. The technology removes defects
due to image jitter, image rotation and image zoom in video sequences.
The technology also may be useful for medical imaging, scientific
applications and home video.


Gas Gauges

A gas leak-detection system, originally developed to monitor the
Shuttle's hydrogen propulsion system, is now being used by the Ford
Motor Company in the production of a natural gas-powered car.


Product Labeling

NASA needs to identify, track, and keep records on each of the
thousands of heat-shield tiles on the Space Shuttle. This required a
labeling system that could be put on ceramic material and withstand
the rigors of space travel to be readable after a flight. NASA
developed high data-density, two-dimensional, machine-readable symbol
technology used to mark individual tiles. This novel method of
labeling products with invisible and virtually indestructible markings
can be used on electronic parts, pharmaceuticals and livestock -- in
fact on just about anything.


Keep Cool Under Fire

Materials from the Space Shuttle thermal protection system are used on
NASCAR racing cars to protect drivers from the extreme heat generated
by the engines. This same material is also used to protect
firefighters.


Fire Resistant Foam

A unique foam developed for Space Shuttle thermal insulation and
packing is now being used as thermal and acoustical insulation in
aerospace, marine and industrial products. Since it's also fire
resistant, it's being used as well for fire barriers, packaging and
other applications requiring either high-temperature or very
low-temperature insulation in critical environments. For example, use
of these foam products by airframe manufacturers such as Boeing,
Lockheed-Martin, and Airbus provides major weight savings, while
retaining good thermal and acoustical properties in the various
products.


Fire Sighting

A sensitive, gas infrared camera, used by NASA observers to monitor
the blazing plumes from the Space Shuttle's solid rocket boosters is
also capable of scanning for fires. Firefighters use this hand-held
camera to pinpoint the hotspots of wildfires that rage out of control.


Jeweler's Gem

Jewelers no longer have to worry about inhaling dangerous asbestos
fibers from the blocks they use as soldering bases. Space Shuttle
heat-shield tiles offer jewelers a safer soldering base with
temperature resistance far beyond the 1,400 degrees Fahrenheit
generated by the jeweler's torch.


Jet Stripping

NASA developed a tool that uses powerful jet streams of water to strip
paint and primer from the Space Shuttle's solid rocket boosters. A
commercial version of this water jet is now used to treat
turbine-engine components, airframe components, large aerospace
hardware, ships and other mechanical devices, using only pure water.
No hazardous chemicals are needed.


Quick Fit Fasteners

Fastening items in space is a difficult task. A Virginia company
developed a fastener that can be pushed on, rather than turned. These
quick-connect fasteners are flexible and strong, and have been used by
NASA astronauts since 1989. The product is now in use by firefighters
and nuclear power-plant repair technicians, and has other commercial
applications.


Computer Joysticks

Computer games can now be played with all the precision and
sensitivity needed for a safe and soft Space Shuttle touchdown. A
game-controlling joystick for personal computer-based entertainment
systems was modeled after controls used in shuttle simulators.
Astronauts used the joystick to practice runway landings and orbit
maneuvering.


Toys for Tots

Already successful with its Nerf toy products, Hasbro, Inc. wanted to
design a toy glider that a child could fly. Benefiting from NASA
wind-tunnel and aerodynamic expertise used in the Space Shuttle
program, Hasbro improved the flying distances and loop-to-loop stunts
of its toy gliders.


Slick Products

A lubricant used on the transporter that carries a Space Shuttle to
the launch pad has resulted in a commercial penetrating-spray lube,
which is used for rust prevention and loosening corroded nuts. It's
also a cleaner and lubricant for guns and fishing reels, and can be
used to reduce engine friction.

[Mark]

If the US had spent the $'s on that super collider in Texas we would have had much more science and benefit.

Btw, while I don't advocate robbing the space program to pay for it, cancelling the Super Collider---when it was very nearly completed---was one of the dopier decisions our government has ever made.

If I am not mistaken, they are buidling one in Europe.

[RichardR]

Originally posted by Mark
RR: Anyone want to tell me what benefits we have got from the space station so far? Apart from circular ones, such as we now know more about living in space.

Mark: OK, since you don't want to go to the link by yourself...

These are all touted as benefits of the space shuttle. I asked specifically about the space station. Maybe some of those are for the ISS specifically; it’s hard to be sure.

The problem I have with the ISS is the relatively small number of hours actual science that seems to have been performed in it. They have (as I recall), three people there, but only do an average of 19 man hours of science a week. That is six hours a week per person. I believe most of the time of the humans is taken up in just keeping the damned thing habitable for the humans. From NASA's website: (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/crew/year2/science/)

Expedition Four -- December 2001 to June 2002 -- performed 27 science experiments, while Expedition Five -- June 2002 to November 2002 -- participated in 25 science experiments, devoting more than 1,000 hours to research.

Divided by 52, I make that 19 hours per week. How much of this could be done with an unmanned space vehicle? And how much more science could have been done if the effort had been put into an unmanned vehicle which did not require so much resources to be allocated to merely keeping it habitable for the humans who live in it?

I have a few comments or questions on the benefits listed. I’m not being dogmatic on this, just questioning what the real benefits are and asking if this was the best way to achieve them. ie, I am looking at it skeptically.

3-D Biotechnology

Could this have been achieved using an unmanned vehicle at a fraction of the cost?

Artificial Heart

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, not the ISS. Could this have been achieved using an unmanned vehicle at a fraction of the cost?

Blood Serum Research

This does appear to be a benefit of the ISS.

Artificial Limbs

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, not the ISS. Could this have been achieved using an unmanned vehicle at a fraction of the cost?

Lifesaving Light

Could this have been achieved using an unmanned vehicle at a fraction of the cost?

Taking Temperatures

This appears to be e benefit of something other than the ISS or the shuttle, more a spin off from the Hubble of other astronomy project.

Better Balance

It does say “shuttle” and not the ISS, although I imagine this was actually a result of an ISS need.

Faster Diagnostics

Probably a benefit of the ISS.

Land Mine Removal

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, not the ISS. Could this have been achieved using an unmanned vehicle at a fraction of the cost?

Tracking Vehicles on Earth

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, not the ISS. Could this have been achieved using an unmanned vehicle at a fraction of the cost?

Rescue 911

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, not the ISS. Could this have been achieved using an unmanned vehicle at a fraction of the cost?

Byte Out of Crime

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, or of satellite improvements, not the ISS. Could this have been achieved using an unmanned vehicle at a fraction of the cost?

Gas Gauges

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, not the ISS.

Product Labeling

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, not the ISS.

Keep Cool Under Fire

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, not the ISS.

Fire Resistant Foam

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, not the ISS, although I could be wrong.

Fire Sighting

Probably a benefits of ISS.

Jeweler's Gem

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, not the ISS.

Jet Stripping

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, not the ISS.

Quick Fit Fasteners

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle or earlier NASA missions, not the ISS.

Computer Joysticks

"Computer games can now be played with all the precision and
sensitivity needed for a safe and soft Space Shuttle touchdown."

Phew, I’m glad we sorted that one out.

Toys for Tots

Are you kidding me?

Slick Products

Seems to be a benefit of the Shuttle, not the ISS.

[Torlack]

I think the space program is doing a lot of good, I just question this incarnation.

[Mark]

I'd have to do more reasearch to see what, if anything, has been a benefit of the space station all by itself. I'm willing to do that, but not today, I'm afraid; no time. On a philosophical note, anything that gets us out there in some extended capacity is better than nothing at all as far as I am concerned..

[scribble]

Originally posted by Whodini
Use the money to feed and shelter people.

F**cking commies.

[scribble]

Originally posted by Mark
[B]Yikes.
Anyone want to tell me what benefits we have got from the space station so far? Apart from circular ones, such as we now know more about living in space.

OK, since you don't want to go to the link by yourself...


Excuse me for pointing this out, but none of these are the result of flying shuttle missions. They are all the result of wanting to fly shuttle missions. They not only were all created right here on Earth, but we never actually had to leave the planet to come up with the ideas, either.

Don't get me wrong, I love space and the shuttle and the ISS and I wish our space program were doing more.

-Chris

[jj]

Originally posted by Whodini
Use the money to feed and shelter people.

Then we have no advances in science to help us cope with the needs of the growing population.

This silly statement has been refuted time and time again. Bear in mind, there is nothing wrong with feeding and sheltering people, but in fact the cost of the space shuttle has very small utility in that regard, and large payoffs in new ways to feed and shelter people, so you're arguing to create more starving and homeless.

Is that what you want?

[Thumbo]

Any science benefits are welcome, but secondary. We should go into space so that we can go into space. It's exploration and adventure; the first few faltering steps leading, I hope, to the habitation of the solar system and maybe even beyond. Semi-permanent habitation in earth orbit is just the one of the first baby steps.

Arguing the case for the space station on the basis of what it can do for us back on earth is like the Vikings treating North America as just an occasional source of lumber. Sort of valid for the moment, but totally ignoring the greater potential.

It's a big, intersting universe out there. Let's go live in it.

[Mark]

It's a big, intersting universe out there. Let's go live in it.

Well said, Thumbo!!!!!!

[Supercharts]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=624&e=1&cid=624&u=/ap/20030123/ap_on_sc/space_shuttle

[Jon_in_london]

There isnt enough money being put into big wastefull boasty- flag waving blue sky research projects. SIGN MY PETITION TO BRING BACK THE COLD WAR!!!!!

[Keneke]

Originally posted by scribble


Excuse me for pointing this out, but none of these are the result of flying shuttle missions. They are all the result of wanting to fly shuttle missions. They not only were all created right here on Earth, but we never actually had to leave the planet to come up with the ideas, either.

Yet they wouldn't have existed without the need for it on the shuttle. Even attempting to do something huge can offer beneficial, little, unrelated results.

[Kilted_Canuck]

Not much has come out of the ISS so far because it is still in construction. Wait until the darn thing is finished before you start saying that it was a waste of money.

[Plutarck]

Originally posted by Whodini
Use the money to feed and shelter people.

Actually this is a logical fallacy, not merely "wrong" as it is applied here: Short Term Versus Long Term (http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~lindsay/skeptic/arguments.html#short)

this is a particular case of the Excluded Middle. For example, "We must deal with crime on the streets before improving the schools." (But why can't we do some of both?) Similarly, "We should take the scientific research budget and use it to feed starving children."

Note that last one.

Originally posted by scribble


F**cking commies.


Yeah, heaven forbid we feed more starving people. Ohh we now have better building materials and we know that Venus or some un-livable planet has another moon, woo big deal.

[xouper]

bump