Indigenous Peoples Protest Alberta Tar Sands

[bikerdruid]

http://www.pitchengine.com/pitch/106329/
Indigenous Peoples of Canada and their allies from around the world are in Cancun at the COP-16 climate summit demanding real action to reduce fossil fuel pollution. Over twenty people with color-coded T-shirts that spelled out the words “Shut Down the Tar Sands” in both English and Spanish gathered in front of the Maya building to directly deliver their message to UNFCCC delegates. Participants included Indigenous community representatives from fossil fuel impacted community across Canada and the U.S., many carrying personal banners linking tar sands with the destruction of their territories.

[Beerina]

with the destruction of their territories

...without sufficient pay-yay-yayments to them. :rolleyes:

[bikerdruid]

...without sufficient pay-yay-yayments to them. :rolleyes:.
it runs a lot deeper than that.
people are dying downstream due to the pollution in their river.

[Newtons Bit]

.
it runs a lot deeper than that.
people are dying downstream due to the pollution in their river.

Sources?

[bikerdruid]

Sources?

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=e0fcc582-3fc3-4601-9d66-c0cf163a3cd3
Ft. Chip residents, activists protest oilsands intrusion

Mike Mercredi is ready to fight what he calls the "slow industrial genocide" that oil companies are waging on the people in his hometown of Fort Chipewyan.

Last year there were over 20 deaths in the community of 1,200 people. Many were cancer-related deaths, which Mercredi said are linked to the oilsands activities in nearby Fort McMurray.

"Let's put a lid on it and slow things down," he said. "The graveyard is getting full."

[Furcifer]

The tar sands are in the middle of nowhere. While I don't particularly like what's being done to extract the oil, but it's a fairly remote location and low risk. There's all kinds of strip mining and other dangerous activities going on around the world and yet they don't seem to be getting the international attention the sands are.

This is all about politics and nothing to do with preserving the environment. We have some of the most pristine and untouched land on the planet. The Europeans have no right telling us what to do with our land. We've got 100's of years of ruining the environment before we come close to what they've done to the planet in the name of progress.

This has nothing to do with preservation and everything to do with Canadian guilt. This is just political posturing for more aid donations, cheaper wood and orders for 1 000 000 EU made windmills.

Alberta and Ontario have been footing the bill for years. It comes as no surprise they are also the biggest polluters in Canada. That's the price we pay for processing commodities for consumption by the rest of the World.

Let's start taking into account the fact that these goods are being exported to the EU, Asia and the US. Then we'll see who's really responsible for the mess.

[bikerdruid]

The tar sands are in the middle of nowhere. While I don't particularly like what's being done to extract the oil, but it's a fairly remote location and low risk.

....................

Let's start taking into account the fact that these goods are being exported to the EU, Asia and the US. Then we'll see who's really responsible for the mess.

low risk to city dwellers, but death to local indigineous residents.
who is responsible is irrelevant.
the mining should be curtailed until it can be done safely.
the tar sands are the largest oil reserve on earth.
it's not going anywhere.

[Newtons Bit]

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=e0fcc582-3fc3-4601-9d66-c0cf163a3cd3
Ft. Chip residents, activists protest oilsands intrusion

Mike Mercredi is ready to fight what he calls the "slow industrial genocide" that oil companies are waging on the people in his hometown of Fort Chipewyan.

Last year there were over 20 deaths in the community of 1,200 people. Many were cancer-related deaths, which Mercredi said are linked to the oilsands activities in nearby Fort McMurray.

"Let's put a lid on it and slow things down," he said. "The graveyard is getting full."


So one person claims that it's linked to the oil sands. No medical study. No analysis of the water. No analysis of the air.

That's not a source, it's complete :rule10.

[Furcifer]

low risk to city dwellers, but death to local indigineous residents.
who is responsible is irrelevant.
the mining should be curtailed until it can be done safely.
the tar sands are the largest oil reserve on earth.
it's not going anywhere.

NB kinda pegged it in his post, there's no real correlation yet. I don't think the cancer rate is any higher than normal, even if it was it hasn't been determined to be a result of the sands operation.

I'm prepared to assume for argument it is going to cause some problems for the local residents. What it brings to the Canadian economy by ways of jobs and taxes offsets the impact to the environment. In a perfect world we could forget about it but this isn't a perfect world. This is a tiny remote part of Canada and right now the benefits outweigh the risks.

[bikerdruid]

http://www.numberswatchdog.com/news%2009/Study%20finds%20elevated%20cancer%20rates%20in%20F ort%20Chipewyan.htm



A new study into cancer rates in the remote northern community of Fort Chipewyan has revealed higher-than-expected rates of cancer among its 900 mostly Aboriginal residents.

The study, released February 6 by Dr Tony Fields of Alberta Health Services, found 51 cancers in 47 people between 1995 and 2006 in the community located 300 km north of Fort McMurray and downstream from major tar sands developments. Researchers expected to find just 39 cases, meaning cancer rates were 30 per cent higher than anticipated.

The study discovered higher rates in three specific types of cancers, including eight cases of blood and lymphatic cancers, seven of which have appeared in the last six years, two cases of soft-tissue cancers and three cases of biliary tract cancers, two of which were cholangiocarcinoma, a rare form of liver cancer which Dr John O’Connor, a family physician who practiced in Fort Chipewyan, first raised concerns about in 2003.

Despite the findings, Fields reassured the community that the numbers were not “causes for any alarm.”

“These could be due to chance. They could be due to increased detection of cancers. They could be due to increased risk in the community,” including lifestyle, occupation or the environment, he said. “Our investigation really can’t go any further in distinguishing these.”

Fields did recommend further study to determine if environmental factors were a contributing factor to the increased rates.

“Can we rule out that the environment is involved? No we can’t.”

[bikerdruid]

In a perfect world we could forget about it but this isn't a perfect world. This is a tiny remote part of Canada and right now the benefits outweigh the risks.

i guess that depends on where you live.
after all....it's only ducks and indians that are dying...:rolleyes:

[Furcifer]

i guess that depends on where you live.
after all....it's only ducks and indians that are dying...:rolleyes:

This becomes a valid argument when we run out of room here in Canada. In the mean time relocation is an option, jobs aren't.

I know, brutally callous on my part. There was a time I thought we could all live like hippies, but I was smoking a lot of pot at that time. Then the OSAP ran out and I learned the value of a job.

We need the jobs and the income the sands provide. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". We're talking about a very, very, very small percentage of the available land here in Canada providing a very, very large income to many, many people.

If you can come up with another means of supporting the people the sands provides for I'm all for shutting them down. Your solution is more of a problem than you're acknowledging.

[Furcifer]

“Can we rule out that the environment is involved? No we can’t.”

That's why I said for sake of argument it's to be expected. Anytime you bring industry to an area you tend to bring cancer. You also increase the quality of life and longevity.

[bikerdruid]

That's why I said for sake of argument it's to be expected. Anytime you bring industry to an area you tend to bring cancer. You also increase the quality of life and longevity.

how can industry bring cancer AND increase the quality of life and longevity??

[Newtons Bit]

http://www.numberswatchdog.com/news%2009/Study%20finds%20elevated%20cancer%20rates%20in%20F ort%20Chipewyan.htm



A new study into cancer rates in the remote northern community of Fort Chipewyan has revealed higher-than-expected rates of cancer among its 900 mostly Aboriginal residents.

The study, released February 6 by Dr Tony Fields of Alberta Health Services, found 51 cancers in 47 people between 1995 and 2006 in the community located 300 km north of Fort McMurray and downstream from major tar sands developments. Researchers expected to find just 39 cases, meaning cancer rates were 30 per cent higher than anticipated.

The study discovered higher rates in three specific types of cancers, including eight cases of blood and lymphatic cancers, seven of which have appeared in the last six years, two cases of soft-tissue cancers and three cases of biliary tract cancers, two of which were cholangiocarcinoma, a rare form of liver cancer which Dr John O’Connor, a family physician who practiced in Fort Chipewyan, first raised concerns about in 2003.

Despite the findings, Fields reassured the community that the numbers were not “causes for any alarm.”

“These could be due to chance. They could be due to increased detection of cancers. They could be due to increased risk in the community,” including lifestyle, occupation or the environment, he said. “Our investigation really can’t go any further in distinguishing these.”

Fields did recommend further study to determine if environmental factors were a contributing factor to the increased rates.

“Can we rule out that the environment is involved? No we can’t.”

So there WAS a study, and that study showed inconclusive results. In other words: there's no evidence for your claim.

[Madalch]

how can industry bring cancer AND increase the quality of life and longevity??

If you live in a tent through the Ft. MacMurray winter, eating what you hunt and wearing what you make, you will have a 0% chance of getting cancer. What is your quality of life and your life expectancy?

If you work in an oil-processing plant in Ft. Mac, live in an apartment and shop at Superstore, you may have a 5% chance of getting cancer. But what is your quality of life like, and how long will you enjoy it?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

If you live in a tent through the Ft. MacMurray winter, eating what you hunt and wearing what you make, you will have a 0% chance of getting cancer. What is your quality of life and your life expectancy?

If you work in an oil-processing plant in Ft. Mac, live in an apartment and shop at Superstore, you may have a 5% chance of getting cancer. But what is your quality of life like, and how long will you enjoy it?

Having been to "Fort McMoney" in February on a job, I can confirm that access to insulation and central heating technologies significantly impact the survivability of the local environment.

While there, I saw an indigenous person driving a pick up truck with a bumper sticker on it that said "Work Whitey, While I Go Have A Beer". Not all of them are upset by the presence of industry. This may in fact be a ploy to get more money.

[jayh]

Too often, when we see 'indigenous people protest...' there's a good chance that they are a convenient public face for an organization (of people living rather affluent lives elsewhere) with their own Luddite agenda. '... and their allies.. ' should really be '... and their handlers...'

[The Central Scrutinizer]

http://www.pitchengine.com/pitch/106329/
Indigenous Peoples of Canada and their allies from around the world are in Cancun at the COP-16 climate summit demanding real action to reduce fossil fuel pollution. Over twenty people with color-coded T-shirts that spelled out the words “Shut Down the Tar Sands” in both English and Spanish gathered in front of the Maya building to directly deliver their message to UNFCCC delegates. Participants included Indigenous community representatives from fossil fuel impacted community across Canada and the U.S., many carrying personal banners linking tar sands with the destruction of their territories.

Do the people who are "spaces" also get a t-shirt?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=e0fcc582-3fc3-4601-9d66-c0cf163a3cd3
Ft. Chip residents, activists protest oilsands intrusion

Mike Mercredi is ready to fight what he calls the "slow industrial genocide" that oil companies are waging on the people in his hometown of Fort Chipewyan.

Last year there were over 20 deaths in the community of 1,200 people. Many were cancer-related deaths, which Mercredi said are linked to the oilsands activities in nearby Fort McMurray.

"Let's put a lid on it and slow things down," he said. "The graveyard is getting full."


Evidence?

[qayak]

If you can come up with another means of supporting the people the sands provides for I'm all for shutting them down. Your solution is more of a problem than you're acknowledging.

I agree with your entire post except this part. The reason the oil sands are in production is because it is one of the largest reserves in the world, second only to Saudi Arabia, and the demand for oil has shot through the roof. Regardless of the jobs, the oil sands will not be shut down unless the demand for oil drops very significantly, or a clean energy alternative is found.

Only 20% of the oil is extracted from the sand, the other 80% is drilled and pumped out in traditional ways.

If people want to shut down the Tar Sands they need to look at their own consumption. I find it especially disingenuous that American politicians rail against the Tar Sands and yet the U.S. is the largest beneficiary of them.

As for the people claiming cancer, nothing supports their claim. Without support, there is no claim.

[keale]

I agree with your entire post except this part. The reason the oil sands are in production is because it is one of the largest reserves in the world, second only to Saudi Arabia, and the demand for oil has shot through the roof. Regardless of the jobs, the oil sands will not be shut down unless the demand for oil drops very significantly, or a clean energy alternative is found.

Only 20% of the oil is extracted from the sand, the other 80% is drilled and pumped out in traditional ways.

If people want to shut down the Tar Sands they need to look at their own consumption. I find it especially disingenuous that American politicians rail against the Tar Sands and yet the U.S. is the largest beneficiary of them.

As for the people claiming cancer, nothing supports their claim. Without support, there is no claim.

Im curious as to how these people would get supporting evidence?

[qayak]

Im curious as to how these people would get supporting evidence?

There have been, and continue to be, studies done. None support the claim.

They can also fund their own study, ask the government to fund one, or have some other body fund one.

I find it silly that people will use studies to support their opinion but will never allow a study to change their opinion. The cellphone causes cancer issue and EMF causes cancer issue are two such instances. There is nothing to support the claims. All evidence says the claim is wrong, therefore, to the best of our knowledge, the claim is wrong.

This issue is another such case. There is nothing to support the claim, therefore the claim is wrong and the Tar Sands do not need to stop over it.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

If people want to shut down the Tar Sands they need to look at their own consumption. I find it especially disingenuous that American politicians rail against the Tar Sands and yet the U.S. is the largest beneficiary of them.

The great irony is that the people who whine about the Tar Sands are the same ones who whine when gas prices go up.

[bikerdruid]

The great irony is that the people who whine about the Tar Sands are the same ones who whine when gas prices go up.
albertans pay a buck a litre for our own petrol.
(that's 3.80 per u.s. gallon.)

[The Central Scrutinizer]

albertans pay a buck a litre for our own petrol.
(that's 3.80 per u.s. gallon.)

Is that good?

[bikerdruid]

Is that good?

it is much higher than most americans pay for the same petrol.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

it is much higher than most americans pay for the same petrol.

Oh.

[CORed]

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=e0fcc582-3fc3-4601-9d66-c0cf163a3cd3
Ft. Chip residents, activists protest oilsands intrusion

Mike Mercredi is ready to fight what he calls the "slow industrial genocide" that oil companies are waging on the people in his hometown of Fort Chipewyan.

Last year there were over 20 deaths in the community of 1,200 people. Many were cancer-related deaths, which Mercredi said are linked to the oilsands activities in nearby Fort McMurray.

"Let's put a lid on it and slow things down," he said. "The graveyard is getting full."


Any real evidence that tar sand activity is responsible for the deaths? People die all the time, some of them of cancer. So, is there any evidence that carcinogens are in the air or drinking water in dangerous levels? Any evidence that cancer rates or cancer deaths are higher than expected in such a population? You know, actual evidence, not simply the fact that the locals are blaming every death or illness on an unpopular industrial activity?

[mike3]

This becomes a valid argument when we run out of room here in Canada. In the mean time relocation is an option, jobs aren't.

I know, brutally callous on my part. There was a time I thought we could all live like hippies, but I was smoking a lot of pot at that time. Then the OSAP ran out and I learned the value of a job.

We need the jobs and the income the sands provide. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". We're talking about a very, very, very small percentage of the available land here in Canada providing a very, very large income to many, many people.

If you can come up with another means of supporting the people the sands provides for I'm all for shutting them down. Your solution is more of a problem than you're acknowledging.

I hope you see the difference between "not living like hippies" and "making people die".

[qayak]

Any real evidence that tar sand activity is responsible for the deaths? People die all the time, some of them of cancer. So, is there any evidence that carcinogens are in the air or drinking water in dangerous levels? Any evidence that cancer rates or cancer deaths are higher than expected in such a population? You know, actual evidence, not simply the fact that the locals are blaming every death or illness on an unpopular industrial activity?

Exactly. Everyone wants to point at the oil industry because that's where the money is and where the money is, is where the lawyers make their money.

[Beerina]

it is much higher than most americans pay for the same petrol.

$3.80 vs. $3.08? Not that much higher. Talking heads are suggesting it'll get up to $5 this year.

[qayak]

$3.80 vs. $3.08? Not that much higher. Talking heads are suggesting it'll get up to $5 this year.

Alberta is lowest in Canada. The cheapest I have gotten a U.S. gallon in a long time is $4.43. Usually it is $4.62.

Of course, I have to buy premium for my vehicle so I actually pay $5.11. But, hey! That's the price for going fast!

Technically though, the U.S. pays way more for their fuel. What most people forget is that the U.S. military budget is taken up almost entirely in protecting their oil interests around the world. When you factor that in, I can't even imagine what they are paying for a gallon of fuel even without the cost of human life involved.

As for the Tar Sands, they aren't nearly as bad as fearmongers would have one believe.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

$3.80 vs. $3.08? Not that much higher. Talking heads are suggesting it'll get up to $5 this year.

We can only hope.