A Modest Fundraising Idea For JREF

[Richard Kirschman]

This is a plan to find, recognize and financially support people who have psychic powers. The greater the power, the greater the financial support they will receive.

After making a registration fee of say $10, psychics will be asked to identify in advance, a series of 5 or more 2 digit numbers that will be generated at random. If the psychic correctly predicts say 3 of the 5 numbers he/she will be awarded a financial support recognition of X dollars. If the psychics powers are great enough to predict 4 or 5 of the numbers the financial support will be significantly greater. That seems only fair.

If enough psychics are drawn to this plan one might repeat this search, perhaps on a daily basis if needed. There should, of course, be no limit to the number of times one can asked to be tested.

If this was sponsored by a non profit tax exempt organization with a long history of searching for people with psychic powers, it is arguably not a lottery if that's what you may be thinking.

And there is probably no shortage of experienced online organizations who, for a fee, will administer such important, and likely self funding research.

[Loss Leader]

It's against the law. Which law? Just about all of them.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

If this was sponsored by a non profit tax exempt organization with a long history of searching for people with psychic powers, it is arguably not a lottery if that's what you may be thinking.

How is it different than a lottery?

[Mirrorglass]

It's not. It is lottery. With the word "psychic" thrown in a few times.

[Loss Leader]

I like the fact that "This is a great idea" isn't even a choice in the poll.

[rjh01]

Not much different from the MDC bar the size. So is the MDC an illegal lottery?

Similar things
1. Both cost money to enter. The MDC has its costs paid for by the applicant
2. There is a prize for winning.
3. Both are claimed to be of skill not chance.
4. Both can be won by luck alone.

[Paradox74]

I like the fact that "This is a great idea" isn't even a choice in the poll.

I think that's the point he's trying to make...

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Not much different from the MDC bar the size. So is the MDC an illegal lottery?

Similar things
1. Both cost money to enter. The MDC has its costs paid for by the applicant
2. There is a prize for winning.
3. Both are claimed to be of skill not chance.
4. Both can be won by luck alone.

Good luck convincing the judge with that argument.

[Uncayimmy]

Not much different from the MDC bar the size. So is the MDC an illegal lottery?

Similar things
1. Both cost money to enter. The MDC has its costs paid for by the applicant
2. There is a prize for winning.
3. Both are claimed to be of skill not chance.
4. Both can be won by luck alone.

No money is paid to the JREF, which is essential for it to be called gambling. Incurring expenses is not an element in gambling. Paying money to the contest holder who in turn uses that for prize money is.

If it smells like gambling, it's gambling. Many years ago pinball machines were considered gambling because people could redeem their "free games" for cash even though "skill" is an element of pinball. Simply put, there's no way the proposal would pass muster as not being gambling, and in no way would the MDC be considered gambling.

[Darth Rotor]

Richard, porn raises money faster, and more effectively, and legally.

Suggest you pursue something along those lines.

[Mirrorglass]

So, who should play Randi in the official JREF porn film?

[Cuddles]

It's against the law. Which law? Just about all of them.

Well, coming from outside the US it wouldn't be against the law here, as long as it was properly licensed or whatever you need to set up a lottery. However, it doesn't need to be illegal to be a stupid idea. The fact that it's possible to make money by running a particular business, like gambling, does not mean that it's a sensible way for a small non-profit organisation to raise money. It makes just as much sense to suggest the JREF start up a cheese manufacturing conglomerate to raise money.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Well, coming from outside the US it wouldn't be against the law here, as long as it was properly licensed or whatever you need to set up a lottery. However, it doesn't need to be illegal to be a stupid idea. The fact that it's possible to make money by running a particular business, like gambling, does not mean that it's a sensible way for a small non-profit organisation to raise money. It makes just as much sense to suggest the JREF start up a cheese manufacturing conglomerate to raise money.

Good point.

[maddog]

It would make much more sense to start a JREF bacon manufacturing conglomerate. Just think of how much we could make off our own members!

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Am I the only one who thinks Richard won't be back?

[maddog]

Isn't one post enough?

[Wowbagger]

We could probably raise a little more money if we had a banner saying "Please Read: An Urgent Appeal from JREF founder James Randi", which would include a photo of Randi looking a little bit like a homeless bum.

[psionl0]

After making a registration fee of say $10, psychics will be asked to identify in advance, a series of 5 or more 2 digit numbers that will be generated at random. If the psychic correctly predicts say 3 of the 5 numbers he/she will be awarded a financial support recognition of X dollars. If the psychics powers are great enough to predict 4 or 5 of the numbers the financial support will be significantly greater. That seems only fair.

There is already a scheme like this in place. It is called LOTTO.

(I don't see too many "psychics" getting funding from it though).

[Loss Leader]

What we need to do is restrict JREF membership to only the most select individuals, and then charge $40.00 for the application fee and $25.00 for the membership certificate. Figure 67,000,000 people apply, 13,000,000 are admitted and 45% opt for the certificate, that's $2,826,250,000.00. And that starts to be some serious change.

[TubbaBlubba]

So, who should play Randi in the official JREF porn film?

Can we get Sean Connery?

[Richard Kirschman]

There was a touch of humor intended in my suggestion about a fund raiser disguised
as a psychic test. Not the first time I've failed in this regard.

If it had actually reached a court of law, we might have presented some judge an opportunity to comment on the existence of psychic powers as well as disguised lotteries. Oh well.

Richard

[Loss Leader]

If it had actually reached a court of law, we might have presented some judge an opportunity to comment on the existence of psychic powers as well as disguised lotteries. Oh well.


Unfortunately, the court it would have reached would have been a criminal one.

The jurisprudence on disguised lotteries is rather extensive. I doubt there's anything that can be said on the issue that hasn't already been sorted out decades ago.

[fuelair]

This is a plan to find, recognize and financially support people who have psychic powers. The greater the power, the greater the financial support they will receive.

.

This, [people who have psychic powers], is your actual problem. How can you support something that is non-existant?

No one has even come close to passing real/scientifically / statistics based tests on ANY psychic power (even, heaven(joke) forbid making someone pee with mental powers [psychic squeeze on the old bladder]).

There is nothing to collect for, no reason to believe such will show up. Give us an actual psychic/related to work with and fly this again - until then, makes no sense - been run up the flagpole and got no salutes.

[rjh01]

There was a touch of humor intended in my suggestion about a fund raiser disguised
as a psychic test. Not the first time I've failed in this regard.

If it had actually reached a court of law, we might have presented some judge an opportunity to comment on the existence of psychic powers as well as disguised lotteries. Oh well.

Richard

Thanks for coming back and making another post. How about visiting us frequently? You can contribute to any other thread that is interesting to you. If you want to talk about yourself feel free to do so here http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=64023