for those who want to debate the chiro quacks...

[HopkinsMedStudent]

http://www.chiroweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/open/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Health+Care+Discussion&number=1

Jump in and have fun. Of course, first you'll have to explain to them that the burden of proof is on them and not you.

[Phaycops]

Nah, I've got a brick wall right over there I could go and bang my head against if the mood strikes :D

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by HopkinsMedStudent
http://www.chiroweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/open/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Health+Care+Discussion&number=1

Jump in and have fun. Of course, first you'll have to explain to them that the burden of proof is on them and not you. My God, it's the homoeopaths all over again. I swear they get the vocabulary out of the same lexicon. First response to anyone expressing the slightest scintilla of doubt - "F**k off, troll".

The psychology of the people who promote these crackpot therapies must surely be a fascinating study for those with an interest in this area. Has anything been written up about it?

Rolfe.

[cbish]

Rolfe wrote:
The psychology of the people who promote these crackpot therapies must surely be a fascinating study for those with an interest in this area. Has anything been written up about it?

This has always fascinated me as well. I have an opinion that I've mentioned on other threads. I've always contended that this type of quackery was rooted in a deep spirituality. It could be, but not limited to, a formal religious conviction or some type of strong mystic belief. This is just what I've observed: People who are big into chiropractry, homeopathy, super foods, organic superiority, cryptozoology all have a deep spirituality that is threatened by mainstream science. They are emotionally bound to their "belief system" and science makes their belief system sound foolish. Therefore, science has to be fallable so they attack it.

[Rolfe]

I know what you mean, because the mind-set has much more in common with a belief system than with a rational world-view. However, it doesn't correlate with religious belief (many people with a "formal religious conviction" - including myself - consider it to be delusional nonsense, while many homoeopaths are as sneeringly dismissive of religious belief as anything I've seen on this forum), and I'd say it's not so much spirituality as a deeply-rooted wishy-washy-ism.

It has many of the aspects of a cult (http://www.angelfire.com/mb2/quinine/cult.html), and in many ways it's much closer to magic (http://www.bartleby.com/196/5.html) than religion. Phil Stevens has written an interesting article (http://www.csicop.org/si/2001-11/alternative.html) in which he observes that the propensity for magical thinking is deeply rooted in the human psyche, and that there may be an innate tendency to follow the rules of sympathetic magic - underlying rational, cause-and-effect reasoning.

What I see with many of the professional types (doctors, vets) is that they aren't the sharpest knives in the box, and they get frustrated when they realise that they can't cure everything. Instead of keeping their eye on the ball, they start casting around for "some other way", "science doesn't know everything" and so on. They sign up for a course, and find out all this "occult" knowledge that makes them cleverer and more knowledgeable than their peers who only took the regular education. They start to feel superior.

Then, I think, the main part of the course robs them of their critical facaulties. They start taking all the credit for the 70% or so of cases which would get better if you simply threw them out in the yard. They start seeing wonderful recoveries in the natural fluctuations of chronic disease. They start believing patients are better where they really aren't, and in many cases they can convince the patient (or even easier, the patient's owner) that there has been a great improvement. And they probably do buy into the story that the ones that die simply came to them too late.

So they've gone from being one of the blunter pencils, to being a member of a secret society that knows more than others, and from being frustrated at being unable to help a proportion of their patients, to being convinced that they're really helping these people (or animals). Looked at in that way, is it any wonder that they fiercely resist any suggestion that they're delusional nutcases?

But this is just my tuppenceworth. I'd dearly love to read something on this by a real psychologist or psychiatrist.

Rolfe.

[cbish]

Rolfe wrote:
the propensity for magical thinking is deeply rooted in the human psyche, and that there may be an innate tendency to follow the rules of sympathetic magic - underlying rational, cause-and-effect reasoning.

I didn't want to imply it was religious in basis. I think magic is a good term. Or mysticism. I wanted to include religion under that umbrella. The "science doesn't know everything" is huge in keeping their nose above water. I think a mystical mindset is empowering. It gives people a sense of control when in nature they really don't have any. I'd love to hear from a professional as well as to the psychology of this.