Man inside Patterson film's Bigfoot suit steps forward...

[JSFolk]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37009-2004Mar6.html


The Reliable Source

By Richard Leiby
Sunday, March 7, 2004; Page D03


Sasquatch Speaks: The Truth Is Out There

Now it can be told: Bigfoot isn't real!
So says Bob Heironimus, a retired Pepsi bottler from Yakima, Wash., who reveals to the Reliable Source that he donned a gorilla costume and appeared in the famous grainy film clip that helped fuel the Bigfoot craze in 1967 and is studied by Bigfoot, Sasquatch and Yeti investigators to this day.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by JSFolk
Now it can be told: Bigfoot isn't real!
So says Bob Heironimus, a retired Pepsi bottler from Yakima, Wash., who reveals to the Reliable Source that he donned a gorilla costume and appeared in the famous grainy film clip that helped fuel the Bigfoot craze in 1967 and is studied by Bigfoot, Sasquatch and Yeti investigators to this day.

All that proves is that one particular film was faked. You still haven't explained this guy: :p

http://www.bijoucollectables.com/lunchboxes/761.JPG

[Yahweh]

The Patterson film has been debunked long ago, but I still maintain my cheerful sentiment: A fun little hoax while it lasted :)

[Zep]

<h1>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SEND THIS STORY TO WINSTON WU, AND ASK HIS "OPINION"!!</h1>

I would really just LOVE to hear what he has to say in reply, if anything. {hugs self in anticipation}

[WildCat]

Oh yeah? Explain this (http://www.minotdailynews.com/daily/FMPro?-DB=page.one.a.fp5&-lay=main&-Format=detail2.html&story_two=3/3/2004|2&-Max=1&-Find)! ;)

[Zep]

Originally posted by WildCat
Oh yeah? Explain this (http://www.minotdailynews.com/daily/FMPro?-DB=page.one.a.fp5&-lay=main&-Format=detail2.html&story_two=3/3/2004|2&-Max=1&-Find)! ;) Sidetrack: This report is from a town called Minot, which is in...South Dakota? North Dakota? Florida? Tierra Del Fuego?

Give the foreigners a break and put a dot on the map! Thanks! :)

[espritch]

The sad thing is that even if he's telling the truth, the Bigfoot believers will never believe it. They'll just say he's lying to sell a book and will continue to treat the film as legitimate evidence. These kinds of stories are a lot easier to create than to kill.

[WildCat]

Originally posted by Zep
Sidetrack: This report is from a town called Minot, which is in...South Dakota? North Dakota? Florida? Tierra Del Fuego?

Give the foreigners a break and put a dot on the map! Thanks! :)
North Dakota, you had 1 right guess! I think I'd go nuts and start seeing things if I lived in N. Dakota also. I drove across S. Dakota last week, 410 miles (at least the speed limit is 75 mph, so I just set the cruise control at 80) of sheer boredom I assure you. But then, I didn't stop at the Corn Palace or the home of Laura Ingalls Wilder which would surely have been sheer excitement! :p

[WildCat]

I think this artist's conception of a hunter's encounter w/ a Bigfoot on a Georgia military base will convince even the most hardcore skeptics:

http://www.bfro.net/REF/IMAGES/GA_bf_manscale.JPG


Pretty convincing, huh?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I know Rouser2 believes in Bigfoot. So I doubt he will believe this guy.

[Archangel]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
I know Rouser2 believes in Bigfoot. So I doubt he will believe this guy.

To play devils advocate for a second, why couldnt this guy be lying (thats not to say he is)?

He didnt seem to have any details that couldnt have been made up, especially in light of the fact that (IIRC) the guy who took the film is now dead.

Is it possible that bigfoot exists? yes, but if it does there should be some physical evidence especially in light of the close encounters.

Is it likely? no, the lack of physical evidence does show a likelihood of there not being a large bipedal ape in North America (other than N.B.A. players that is)

[JamesM]

But, Heironimus says, "I was never paid a dime for that, no sir," and adds, "Sure I want to make some money. I feel that after 36 years I should get some of it."

Uh-huh.

I'm with Archangel. There is a fame and fortune (of sorts) to be had from claiming to be behind celebrated 'paranormal' phenomena, just as there is to claim to have experienced it.

In the absence of any proof of these claims, it would behoove us to be as wary of this testimony as I'm sure we would be if he was claiming that Bigfoot is real. None of which is to say that there is a large hominid wandering North America, or that the Patterson film is genuine, but these counter-claims don't become any more reliable just because it happens to agree with our prejudices.

[Correa Neto]

AHA!

A bigfoot encounter at a millitary base!

This makes sense, explains and prooves it all!

Bigfeet are either aliens or genetically-enginneered creatures built for war!!! :jaw:

[JamesM]

Originally posted by Correa Neto
Bigfeet are either aliens or genetically-enginneered creatures built for war!!!
In UFO reports at the more 'high strangeness' end of the scale, there are accounts where bigfoot-style creatures appear prominently.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by WildCat
Oh yeah? Explain this (http://www.minotdailynews.com/daily/FMPro?-DB=page.one.a.fp5&-lay=main&-Format=detail2.html&story_two=3/3/2004|2&-Max=1&-Find)! ;) My wife worked for the Minot Daily News back in 97-98. The most exciting thing she got to write a story on was farm that got destroyed by a tornado. After living there for a short time, I'm not suprised that someone would see bigfoot in Minot. It's boring there even by North Dakota standards. My hometown of Devils Lake, ND has a monster a'la Nessie rumored to be living in the lake. It capsized some canoes around 1900.

[cbish]

I have a co-worker who entertains us from time to time with his Bigfoot claims. My favorite is his claim of the secret Bigfoot skeleton stash in the basement of the zoology building at Humboldt State University.:D I'm not kidding. He swears it's true!:D :D

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Zep
Sidetrack: This report is from a town called Minot, which is in...South Dakota? North Dakota? Florida? Tierra Del Fuego?

Give the foreigners a break and put a dot on the map! Thanks! :)

North Dakota.

But the real question is whether Magilla Gorilla is Jewish. :p

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by WildCat
Pretty convincing, huh?

Seriously, can the existence or otherwise of gorilla sapiens sasquatchii be considered a paranormal claim? Likely he doesn't exist, but the claim of his existence is a very normal claim.

Yeah I know The Skeptical Inquirer shed much ink on the subject back in the day.

[Rolfe]

It's like that guy who said that he had proof that aliens from another galaxy had landed on Earth, therefore Randi had to give him the million bucks.

And intelligent alien life on another planet or even another galaxy is paranormal, or "having superpowers", exactly how?

Rolfe.

[Segnosaur]

Does this mean the end of the Yeti @ home project?

http://www.phobe.com/yeti/

[Phil]

Originally posted by JamesM


Uh-huh.

I'm with Archangel. There is a fame and fortune (of sorts) to be had from claiming to be behind celebrated 'paranormal' phenomena, just as there is to claim to have experienced it.

In the absence of any proof of these claims, it would behoove us to be as wary of this testimony as I'm sure we would be if he was claiming that Bigfoot is real. None of which is to say that there is a large hominid wandering North America, or that the Patterson film is genuine, but these counter-claims don't become any more reliable just because it happens to agree with our prejudices.
Well said James. Saved me some typing.

[Zep]

Oh, by the way...

Winston Wu told me that there have been 10,000 confirmed sightings of Bigfoot. Do the math:

One every day is 10000/365= 27.4 years

One every month is 10000/12= 833.3 years

Anyone got a copy of any Washington state newspapers for any day from around the year 1170? :)

(Have I posted this on another thread? Can't remember...)

[Archangel]

Originally posted by Zep
Oh, by the way...

Winston Wu told me that there have been 10,000 confirmed sightings of Bigfoot. Do the math:


Whilst I'd believe 10k sightings worldwide of superficially related creatures (ie yetis, yowies etc) I agree none are confirmed in the sense that we can conclusively provide evidence of a creature, technically he would be correct however in that they are confirmed stories of sightings (this is a smart arse comment, I know what he actually means).

Maybe he is including Native American folk tales of Wendigos & Shape-Shifters as well?

[Zep]

Originally posted by Archangel


Whilst I'd believe 10k sightings worldwide of superficially related creatures (ie yetis, yowies etc) I agree none are confirmed in the sense that we can conclusively provide evidence of a creature, technically he would be correct however in that they are confirmed stories of sightings (this is a smart arse comment, I know what he actually means).

Maybe he is including Native American folk tales of Wendigos & Shape-Shifters as well? No, Winston was quite specific - BIGFOOT or Sasquatch, and only in north-west America.

[tracer]

What's this thread doing in the Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology forum?

[kman]

My father worked for a TV station in Yakima in the late 60's and met Patterson on several occasions when he was brought in to be interviewed about the film. My father always thought it was a guy dressed up in an ape suit but this is the first he has heard of someone making such a claim.

I have been a lurker for a long time and this is my first post. I would classify myself as a materialist and do not remember ever believing in a 'higher power'.

-kman

[Phil]

Originally posted by kman
My father worked for a TV station in Yakima in the late 60's and met Patterson on several occasions when he was brought in to be interviewed about the film. My father always thought it was a guy dressed up in an ape suit but this is the first he has heard of someone making such a claim.

I have been a lurker for a long time and this is my first post. I would classify myself as a materialist and do not remember ever believing in a 'higher power'.

-kman
Good to see you posting, kman. Welcome.

I have not looked into the Patterson case as closely as some of you I'm sure, but there have been some things about it that strike me as interesting. I don't want to jeopardize my status as a good skeptic, but there are aspects of the case that just don't seem fully debunked to me. I know that doesn't prove that the image on the film is of a real Big Foot, and I would never support such a notion given only the film. Like everyone else, it's probably going to take a live animal or an intact carcass to convince me that sasquatch exists, but I've lost respect for many skeptics over the years that dismiss the supposed evidence as hoaxed without real evidence that it was hoaxed, if that makes any sense. There are two points in particular that I find especially interesting.

The first one is the idea that the image is obviously a man in an ape suit. Sure, maybe the Patterson film is a hoax. Maybe the image is of a man wearing a costume. But I recently saw a special (on the Discovery Channel I think) where a Hollywood special effects company tried to recreate the Patterson film. Now they used the same type of camera and film that Patterson used that day in the late 1960s, but they used 21st century special effects make-up techniques to create their "Big Foot". They shot from the same distance and from the same angles and at the same time of day. But when the films were compared, the 21st century recreation looked more like a guy in a costume than the 35 year-old film. Given this experiment, how can anyone conclude that the Patterson film is obviously just a guy in a costume?

The other thing that I find interesting centers around the other man (Gimlin?) that was with Patterson that day. I believe he has always adamantly professed to know nothing of a hoax. In fact, I've seen footage of him recognizing and entertaining the possibility that a trick was indeed pulled on him; that he might have been an unsuspecting patsy, though he still claims no fore-knowledge of any prank. Yet he has stated many times, and never recanted, that he was carrying a loaded, high-powered rifle on that day. Had Patterson been perpetrating a hoax at Gimlin's expense, wouldn't it seem a little foolish to send a man in an ape suit walking out in front of a very good shooter who just might believe he was seeing the trophy kill of a lifetime a few yards away?

Anyone have any thoughts, or care to share any information on these two points that I'm not aware of? As I said, I haven't researched the case in detail, so there is probably a lot I don't know.

[Archangel]

Originally posted by Zep
No, Winston was quite specific - BIGFOOT or Sasquatch, and only in north-west America.

Well at the time I said it I was willing to give Woo Wu, the benefit of the doubt, however a little bit of time has passed and I believe he might be a "little out there".


Originally posted by Phil
The first one is the idea that the image is obviously a man in an ape suit. Sure, maybe the Patterson film is a hoax. Maybe the image is of a man wearing a costume. But I recently saw a special (on the Discovery Channel I think) where a Hollywood special effects company tried to recreate the Patterson film. Now they used the same type of camera and film that Patterson used that day in the late 1960s, but they used 21st century special effects make-up techniques to create their "Big Foot". They shot from the same distance and from the same angles and at the same time of day. But when the films were compared, the 21st century recreation looked more like a guy in a costume than the 35 year-old film. Given this experiment, how can anyone conclude that the Patterson film is obviously just a guy in a costume?


If you remember the name of the show, let us know I saw the one they did on Crop Circles with the guys from MIT and it was very convincing evidence that theres a bunch of super-geeks out there making Crop Circles (I mean you'd have to be a super-geek to make a crop circle and then seed it with magnetised Iron filings fired out of a makeshift flame thrower)

Originally posted by Phil
The other thing that I find interesting centers around the other man (Gimlin?) that was with Patterson that day. I believe he has always adamantly professed to know nothing of a hoax. In fact, I've seen footage of him recognizing and entertaining the possibility that a trick was indeed pulled on him; that he might have been an unsuspecting patsy, though he still claims no fore-knowledge of any prank. Yet he has stated many times, and never recanted, that he was carrying a loaded, high-powered rifle on that day. Had Patterson been perpetrating a hoax at Gimlin's expense, wouldn't it seem a little foolish to send a man in an ape suit walking out in front of a very good shooter who just might believe he was seeing the trophy kill of a lifetime a few yards away?
[/B]

Maybe his friend was a really bad shot?

[Phil]

Originally posted by Archangel
. . . If you remember the name of the show, let us know I saw the one they did on Crop Circles with the guys from MIT and it was very convincing evidence that theres a bunch of super-geeks out there making Crop Circles (I mean you'd have to be a super-geek to make a crop circle and then seed it with magnetised Iron filings fired out of a makeshift flame thrower)

Maybe his friend was a really bad shot?
It was done by the BBC for Discovery Channel's television special called "X-Creatures". There is a lot of chatter between believers and skeptics about the show on the Internet, though I have not been able to find a link to the experiment film.

As to Gimlin being a bad shot, both men were avid outdoorsmen, and very experienced riflemen. Sure, there was a chance Gimlin would miss, but given his experience and the distance of the target, I wouldn't wager a life on it.

[Correa Neto]

X-creatures... I remember the recriation of the footage as well as an episode with a guy saying that there is a giant monitor lizard (9- or 12-m long) living in australian outback. He never said what's these overgrown geckos were supposed to eat.

As for bigfeet, yeti and similar, I would be happy with quality footage taken by some serious high-level wildlife photographer. Think about it- these guys spend years in the wild and never managed to film or picture a mistery animal? Not even a snapshot or a quick glance?

[uruk]

I wear size 15 shoes. I AM BIGFOOT!!!!!!!!!! oh yea I got hair on my back too.

[Archangel]

Originally posted by Phil

It was done by the BBC for Discovery Channel's television special called "X-Creatures". There is a lot of chatter between believers and skeptics about the show on the Internet, though I have not been able to find a link to the experiment film.

As to Gimlin being a bad shot, both men were avid outdoorsmen, and very experienced riflemen. Sure, there was a chance Gimlin would miss, but given his experience and the distance of the target, I wouldn't wager a life on it.

Cool, thanks for that Ill take a look for it.

The bad shot part was an attempt (albeit failed) at sarcasm.

[Kilted_Canuck]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
My wife worked for the Minot Daily News back in 97-98. The most exciting thing she got to write a story on was farm that got destroyed by a tornado. After living there for a short time, I'm not suprised that someone would see bigfoot in Minot. It's boring there even by North Dakota standards. My hometown of Devils Lake, ND has a monster a'la Nessie rumored to be living in the lake. It capsized some canoes around 1900.


Yeah, Minot's a bit south of where I am, and I know how boring this country can be.

In my dad's hometown (a small central saskatchewanian farmtown), his friend snuck up on some pickicers while wearing a very large, very puffy fur coat and a gorilla mask. To this day, the older part of the town's population still believes that this incident proves there's a Sasquach in the area.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by uruk
I wear size 15 shoes. I AM BIGFOOT!!!!!!!!!! oh yea I got hair on my back too.
Convert to another country's shoe size, the figures sound much more impressive.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by Kilted_Canuck



Yeah, Minot's a bit south of where I am, and I know how boring this country can be.

In my dad's hometown (a small central saskatchewanian farmtown), his friend snuck up on some pickicers while wearing a very large, very puffy fur coat and a gorilla mask. To this day, the older part of the town's population still believes that this incident proves there's a Sasquach in the area. Say "Saskatchewanian sasquatch" 10 times fast. Phil, can you think of a tongue twister for this?

[tracer]

Originally posted by Archangel
Maybe his friend was a really bad shot?
Or in on the hoax.


(Shouldn't this thread be in the "General Skepticism and the Paranormal" forum?)

[Phil]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
Say "Saskatchewanian sasquatch" 10 times fast. Phil, can you think of a tongue twister for this?
It's pretty much a tongue twister in itself, but I'll try . . .


Saskatchewanian sasquatch watched Sassy catch

A sassy watch won with a classy snatch

Then Saskatchewanian sasquatch watched Cassy scratch

A brassy watch donned with a sassy latch



Best I could do on short notice. Damn, tongue twisters is hard.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by Phil

It's pretty much a tongue twister in itself, but I'll try . . .


Saskatchewanian sasquatch watched Sassy catch

A sassy watch won with a classy snatch

Then Saskatchewanian sasquatch watched Cassy scratch

A brassy watch donned with a sassy latch

Best I could do on short notice. Damn, tongue twisters is hard. :clap: