Rapture question

[ADD Boy]

This just occurred to me... assuming there is a Rapture, wouldn't the people who are waiting for the Rapture not be considered for being taken up into heaven?

I mean, after all, they're committing the sin of presumption (assuming they know what God thinks), and if 12 years of Catholic school teaching has taught me nothing, it's taught me that at least Catholics believe the story of Adam and Eve is one that teaches that presumption is wrong.

I believe Jesus also said "Do not judge, and you will not be judged" (Matthews 7:1, Luke 6:37). I'm fairly certain that verse would apply to the Christian himself, not just to other people around him. So therefore, if the Christian is judging himself worthy for the Rapture, that seems to be a sin. How can the Christian presume he knows what God wants? Maybe God only wants Michael Jackson in heaven.

So, would God bring people into heaven even if they have committed these two grave sins?

[Zep]

Don't bother the RR folks with facts or logic. They find it hard to spell those words, let alone know what they mean. But they know sumthin' fer sure - they'n don' apply to THEM!!

[ADD Boy]

Whoops, you're right. I forgot the Christian mantra when Thomas Aquinus or Pascal's Wager or any other argument fails to justify their beliefs: "Well, you just have to have faith."

[MLynn]

My opinion based on what I've read in I Corinthians 15 (the resurrection chapter), is that it's not about "presumption" but about a promise and believing the promise. I live my life as if I will live to 93 like my aunt did. If I am "raptured" fine, if not I'm here to make my community a better place, and not just take up space (no rhyme intended). I sin but I have an advocate (I John 2:1-2/another promise plus peace).

[UserGoogol]

God will forgive them for assuming that they will be forgiven for their sins. Assumably.

[Riddick]

Originally posted by UserGoogol
God will forgive them for assuming that they will be forgiven for their sins. Assumably.
oh god that was witty. do you have more material like that?

[ADD Boy]

Originally posted by MLynn
My opinion based on what I've read in I Corinthians 15 (the resurrection chapter), is that it's not about "presumption" but about a promise and believing the promise. I live my life as if I will live to 93 like my aunt did. If I am "raptured" fine, if not I'm here to make my community a better place, and not just take up space (no rhyme intended). I sin but I have an advocate (I John 2:1-2/another promise plus peace).

But it doesn't bother you that you wouldn't have been raptured? I mean, doesn't that basically condemn you to Hell? What's the point? I'm not trying to argue, I'm honestly curious.

[ADD Boy]

Originally posted by Riddick

oh god that was witty. do you have more material like that?

Guys, let's not get hostile...

[MLynn]

Originally posted by ADD Boy


But it doesn't bother you that you wouldn't have been raptured? I mean, doesn't that basically condemn you to Hell? What's the point? I'm not trying to argue, I'm honestly curious.
I would be more than bothered! Being hell-bound wouldn't be inevitable, but it could mean I'd have to go through the "tribulation" (if interpretations of the Book of Revelation are correct). If I was "left behind" I would try and figure out why that was. My questions to myself would be, well, did Jesus pay the price for my sins or not? Am I not covered by the vicarious atonement? If God's promises aren't valid what do I do now? The questions for my would be myriad.

[MLynn]

Originally posted by UserGoogol
God will forgive them for assuming that they will be forgiven for their sins. Assumably.
Hi, UserGoogol, I appreciate your response - I'm not assuming anything. God has made promises in the Bible and I have chosen to continue to believe them based on my 3+ decades of study. Should I call God a liar after He has given the promise of salvation? I realize skeptics have problems with the validity of the Bible and I'm not offended by questions. I will always try to answer to the best of my ability even tho I suck as a debater. I'm a thinker.

[UserGoogol]

I don't think that comment was that snarky. Although I was savoring the circularness of it all, that's kind of the point of Christianity, isn't it? You can't get into Heaven by not being sinful, because it's too late. You're already sinful. You can only get into Heaven if God forgives you. You can act as if you're going to get into Heaven, but it's sinful to be presumptuous. But it won't make a huge difference in God's eyes, because you're already sinful.

(Of course, not all sects of Christianity believe this.)

That, and I have Haibane Renmei¹ (#) on the mind, and one of its more major plot points is the "Circle of Sin." Of course, Haibane Renmei mixes a healthy dose of Buddhism into the mix too, what with the creator not really being Christian in any way.

[MLynn]

Hi, UserGoogol - I didn't think your comments were snarky at all. I like your views, they're making me think "outside the box." I don't know about circles with regard to sin/rapture. Yes, I sin - but, that's why there is hope in the vicarious atonement of Jesus Christ and that's why the resurrection of Jesus is important. If Jesus is just a dead guy, I am lost because he's just another person who died - and I'm no better off. I'm not worthy to be "raptured" or go to whatever heaven may be. I am humbled to think that God would care so much to have a relationship with me (I'm speaking personally and cannot speak for anyone else) that He would make a way to pay for my sin so I could have a full life. It's those biblical promises that I adhere to and continue to study.

[the_ignored]

By around 2005, it seems, at least to those in this thread here (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1578664#post1578664).

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by the_ignored
By around 2005, it seems, at least to those in this thread here (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1578664#post1578664).
Bummer man :(

(I thought "date-setting" was discouraged on that website?)

I noticed a few of those folks mentioned the Mayan 2012 date... well, perhaps you should remind them of the differences (http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html) between the Gregorian Calendar and the Julian Calendar, 2012 may not be the correct year after all... (Oh, and I also thought Numerology and other sacriligious occult games were forbidden in the bible...)


...???... What the f*dge? (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1579202#post1579202):
I too have been waiting for March 2004 (3.5 years) since 28 Sept 2000 when WW3 started, (which incredibly was also the day the world finished its first 6000 years...... to the day).

[MLynn]

Any Xtian "setting" a date for the rapture or the end times is going to get a big embarrassment (whippet nods head) :(