GP owed an apology after all!

[Sundog]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113808,00.html

Any questions?

(Before anyone assassinates me, I'm only half serious.)

[Tony]

GP??


This is a victory for hedonism and freedom. :)

[Luke T.]

It's a sad state of affairs when someone is allowed to sell video of naked underage girls, but the father of one of those girls would probably go to jail for whipping his daughter black and blue for being in the video.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Luke T.
It's a sad state of affairs when someone is allowed to sell video of naked underage girls, but the father of one of those girls would probably go to jail for whipping his daughter black and blue for being in the video.

You are one dark mammajamma at times.

Let me get this straight. You think this is an INJUSTICE, that he'd go to jail?

Wanna rethink that?

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by Sundog


You are one dark mammajamma at times.

Let me get this straight. You think this is an INJUSTICE, that he'd go to jail?

Wanna rethink that?

My issue isn't so much with the guy who made the tape. It is with the judge.

I would have to give the benefit of the doubt about the guy who taped it saying he did not knowing the girl was underaged. I have my doubts about his veracity, but since there is no proof, I'd let him go.

But now that it is a known fact she is underage, I do not think the video should be allowed to be sold. Do you think it should be?

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Luke T.


My issue isn't so much with the guy who made the tape. It is with the judge.

I would have to give the benefit of the doubt about the guy who taped it saying he did not knowing the girl was underaged. I have my doubts about his veracity, but since there is no proof, I'd let him go.

But now that it is a known fact she is underage, I do not think the video should be allowed to be sold. Do you think it should be?

Sorry for not being clear. I mean, you really think it's an injustice that her dad would go to jail for beating her black and blue? I didn't think so.

I don't think should be sold, no. But neither do I think the makers were guilty of kiddy porn. That's where this kind of hysteria leads.

[bignickel]

This is a very stupidly written article.

No where in it does it actually state what the judge's decision was.

Am I supposed to trust Fox's headlines for critical info? I don't think so.

We need a better source of information before we can really comment on this. I assume better news agencies will cover this story.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by Sundog


Sorry for not being clear. I mean, you really think it's an injustice that her dad would go to jail for beating her black and blue? I didn't think so.


It seems like whenever parents begin to complain about MTV or rap music, or something along those lines, the ball gets chucked back into their court telling them that the welfare of the children is up to the parents. Both parents are having to work and somehow watching their teens at the same time. And now they can't even let their kids go to the beach unattended without worrying some slimeball is there to take advantage of them.

You better believe that if one of my daughters exposes herself to a videographer, I'm going to be raising some welts on her backside. And she won't be seeing daylight except to go to school for some time afterward.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Luke T.


You better believe that if one of my daughters exposes herself to a videographer, I'm going to be raising some welts on her backside.

Hmm. Okay, let's just say we have radically different parenting methods. Hope yours work as well as mine have.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by Sundog


Hmm. Okay, let's just say we have radically different parenting methods. Hope yours work as well as mine have.

Spanking is a last resort. If reasoning, explaining, discussing, compromising, planning, agreeing, non-physical consequences, and every other means has been exhausted, then I will resort to instilling the Fear Of Dad in them.

I'd rather they be afraid of me, then dead in a ditch because of a stupid act.

If they are about to get in a car with a friend who is drunk behind the wheel or about to leave wherever they are with some bonehead they've only known for an hour or two, and the thought "My dad will kill me" prevents them from doing it, then I am A-okay with that.

My kids will know, as my teenage son does now, that they can call me at 3 a.m., no questions asked, and I will pick them up and take them home from anywhere.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Luke T.


Spanking is a last resort. If reasoning, explaining, discussing, compromising, planning, agreeing, non-physical consequences, and every other means has been exhausted, then I will resort to instilling the Fear Of Dad in them.

I'd rather they be afraid of me, then dead in a ditch because of a stupid act.

If they are about to get in a car with a friend who is drunk behind the wheel or about to leave wherever they are with some bonehead they've only known for an hour or two, and the thought "My dad will kill me" prevents them from doing it, then I am A-okay with that.

My kids will know, as my teenage son does now, that they can call me at 3 a.m., no questions asked, and I will pick them up and take them home from anywhere.

Whatever works for you, I suppose.

I've always had extremely good luck with "My dad will be disappointed in me", and I have four teenagers now, two of them almost 17, and one other child slightly younger than 13. None of them has EVER been touched in anger. But we're derailing the thread...

But hey, it' my thread, so who cares?

[Luke T.]

How would you handle one of your underage daughters appearing in a naked video sold all over the world, knowing that maybe even your next door neighbor has a copy?

edited to add: I'll have to read your response later. I have to leave for now.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Luke T.



You better believe that if one of my daughters exposes herself to a videographer, I'm going to be raising some welts on her backside. And she won't be seeing daylight except to go to school for some time afterward.

That'd get her on-side. But how would you be if she said, "Da-a-a-ad! I could be doing this on camera and getting paid!"

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Luke T.
How would you handle one of your underage daughters appearing in a naked video sold all over the world, knowing that maybe even your next door neighbor has a copy?

edited to add: I'll have to read your response later. I have to leave for now.

Pretty much anything except beat her. That, to me, would be the end of the road and I'd know I'd failed as a father.

Number one, it won't happen, because I raised her right. But even if I accept the premise, I would do exactly nothing. All my children are smart enough to see the consequences of their actions and live with them. If it DID happen, they'd be kicking themselves so hard - because they'd understand the consequences - that a little talk would be all that's needed. But then again, we're not as hyperreactive about nudity as you seem to be.

This isn't theory, this is how we live. They don't mess up much, but when they do, they don't ever mess up the same way again. And they figure it out themselves, which will last a lot longer than any bruises will, and without the side-effect of destroying their father's credibility in their eyes.

All those right-wing ads suggesting it's wrong to try to be a friend to your children make me sick. I did it, it works, I'd match my children's development and moral character up to any children in America. And not one of them has ever been spanked, much less beaten.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Sundog


Pretty much anything except beat her. That, to me, would be the end of the road and I'd know I'd failed as a father.

Number one, it won't happen, because I raised her right. But even if I accept the premise, I would do exactly nothing. All my children are smart enough to see the consequences of their actions and live with them. If it DID happen, they'd be kicking themselves so hard - because they'd understand the consequences - that a little talk would be all that's needed. But then again, we're not as hyperreactive about nudity as you seem to be.

This isn't theory, this is how we live. They don't mess up much, but when they do, they don't ever mess up the same way again. And they figure it out themselves, which will last a lot longer than any bruises will, and without the side-effect of destroying their father's credibility in their eyes.

All those right-wing ads suggesting it's wrong to try to be a friend to your children make me sick. I did it, it works, I'd match my children's development and moral character up to any children in America. And not one of them has ever been spanked, much less beaten.

I pretty much agree. If I had a daughter and she turned up in a porn vid, I'd first ask her if she got paid, and second ask, "Now that all your friends are going to see you acting the slut, how do you feel?" Some kinds of punishment are best self-administered. In this case, the self-administered booting.

What ads are you referring to, SD?

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto



What ads are you referring to, SD?

First let me say I was wrong to characterize them as right-wing, though I think it's probably not that inaccurate.

We have ads, especially anti-drug ads, that equate being a friend to your children with being a soft-headed parent. Only tough love, they say, will work.

I say that is a complete load of horse byproduct.

But I fully realize not all kids are the same. I've been quite unbelievably lucky to have such great kids. Don't get me started...

[corplinx]

It reminds me of the Traci Lords problem. She was underage but was not marketed as an underage girl so it wasn't pedophilia to watch her porno. Her step-dad got a fake ID to get her into porn with.

The girls in girls gone wild are supposedly college girls so the viewer assumes that. This isn't a case of underage girls being exploited for being underage. However, the problem now is that people who get their jollies for looking at naked teens will now know to buy the videos. Should their sale be banned like the Traci Lords movies?

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by corplinx
Should their sale be banned like the Traci Lords movies?

Absolutely.

Well, you guys will be happy to learn that I talked about this topic with my wife, and she exercised a line item veto on the butt-whupping. She ok'd the grounding. :D

Another reason why two parent families are better for the kids. Checks and balances.

My wife added that we would have to form a two-parent Exploratory Committee to Determine Self-Esteem Issues with Our Adolescent Daughter.

God Bless America.

[Jude]

I've seen the videos, and I couldn't point out which girls were underage.

[SRW]

Originally posted by bignickel
This is a very stupidly written article.

No where in it does it actually state what the judge's decision was.

Am I supposed to trust Fox's headlines for critical info? I don't think so.

We need a better source of information before we can really comment on this. I assume better news agencies will cover this story.

From the article:
________________________________________________
Circuit Judge Michael C. Overstreet made his decision in ordering that defense lawyers be allowed to copy tape confiscated during a search of Francis' rented condominium last spring.

Prosecutors had tried to prevent the copying on grounds the videotape showing a girl "flashing" her breasts was illegal child pornography. Florida's child pornography law makes the depiction of "sexual conduct" illegal and defines that term to include physical contact. There was no physical contact in the video.
_________________________________________________

[Skeptic]

You better believe that if one of my daughters exposes herself to a videographer, I'm going to be raising some welts on her backside. And she won't be seeing daylight except to go to school for some time afterward.

I understand the sentiment, but offer an improvement: raise some welts on HIS backside as well.

[bignickel]

Originally posted by SRW

From the article:
________________________________________________
Circuit Judge Michael C. Overstreet made his decision in ordering that defense lawyers be allowed to copy tape confiscated during a search of Francis' rented condominium last spring.

Prosecutors had tried to prevent the copying on grounds the videotape showing a girl "flashing" her breasts was illegal child pornography. Florida's child pornography law makes the depiction of "sexual conduct" illegal and defines that term to include physical contact. There was no physical contact in the video.
_________________________________________________

Again: the judge's actual decision is not included. What is included is the circumstances his decision was made in, what the defence was trying to do (got a copy of evidence) and what the prosecutors were trying to do (prevent the defence from getting evidence).

You can try to read between the lines. However: I'm not reading between the lines of a Fox article.