Microcyn 60 disinfectant...?

[The Bad Astronomer]

In my school's newspaper today was a glowing article about a local company that makes a product called Microcyn 60, which they claim kills bacteria, virusus, spores, etc. It uses "ions" in the water to do this, from what I can tell.

The company is called Oculusis, and they have an article online about the substance (http://www.oculusis.com/731release.htm). The article is remarkably free of any real content, in my opinion.

Does anyone have any substantive knowledge of this thing? I am curious as to whether this is on the up-and-up or not. If not, I'll send it up to The Amazing One.

[bug_girl]

you can also report it to either the EPA or the FDA if it makes health claims. look under "enforcement action."

[(S)]

For some reason a non-toxic disinfectant makes me wary. If it can't even kill me, how can it kill germs?
/Are/ there many [other] legitimate disinfectants that are also so safe?

[geni]

Looking at the company's site (http://www.oculusis.com/) I don't belive them. It is posible to produce substances that kill germs and don't harm people but they are called antibiotics. This stuff claims to be able to destroy protien so it will be caperble of doing damage. It says it is super oxidesed. That means peroxides which are not good to say the least. The company is also pruducing an anti cancer drug which they claim can have an effct on AIDs some how I don't belive them. Pubmed turns up nothing which for a lisenced antiseptic I find odd to say the least.

The only site that links to the company site is an interview of the company owner. I can't link to the site due to copyright restriction but www.wallstreetreporter.com/linked/Oculusis.html+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 (http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:1PQ8wewDQFsJ:here is a link to the google cache (warning bandwith intensive it tries to run an audio file)

[patnray]

Originally posted by (S)
For some reason a non-toxic disinfectant makes me wary. If it can't even kill me, how can it kill germs?
/Are/ there many [other] legitimate disinfectants that are also so safe?

Yes. Ordinary detergent (for external use only...)

[patnray]

Very suspicious. No information about what is actually in it. "Super-oxidized" is all they say, which could mean almost anything. Probably peroxide, as geni says. Hydrogen peroxide is toxic and corrosive, but not harmful in low concentrations (and is a commonly used antiseptic).

Outside hospital settings, virtually any detergent is sufficiently antibacterial and removes protiens as well as fats and oils. It will facilitate the removal of viruses from surfaces, but does not necessarily kill them...

I'd want more information about what is actually in it before I would use it.

[Brown]

The use of "patented technology" in the article caught my eye. I could find no U.S. patents or published U.S. patent applications in the name of "Aquamed" or "Oculus Innovative" or "MicroMed Consulting." (The names "Oculus" and "Micromed" are not unique to particular companies.)

That doesn't mean these guys are liars. It just means that there are no published patent documents with the companies' names on them. U.S. Patents are issued in the names of individuals, not companies, and although it is permissible to list a company on a patent as an assignee, it is not required. Also, not all patent applications are subject to publication.

Aquamed Technologies has a published foreign patent application, No. WO 02/24208, which has an abstract that appears to pertain to the use of lignins for coating for medical devices and pharmaceuticals. The coating is purportedly to prevent thrombosis and rejection of medical implants and secondary infections. Perhaps this document describes the technology? I don't have enough of a chemical background to know for sure, but the application appears to describe something a bit different from what the article describes.

This foreign application cites to a US patent application (not an issued patent), which is not published.

You can read the application here (PDF) (http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=EP1328279&RPN=WO0224208&DOC=deb45b02a96019d28d46fdbc843ce3b35a).

Edited to add: there are no U.S. patents or published U.S. patent applications in the name of oculusis.

[geni]

The patent seems to refure to their "anti cancer anti HIV"L3 (http://www.oculusis.com/L3.htm) rather than the disifectant.

[TillEulenspiegel]

The article is not informative at all. I suspect that the product is a super saturated solution (%60 +) of H2O2 in a gel or water base. Oxigen is a metobolic posion for most organisms so..........

I'm not a chemist Bio or other otherwise so if I'm wrong don't slap me too hard.

[jj]

Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel
The article is not informative at all. I suspect that the product is a super saturated solution (%60 +) of H2O2 in a gel or water base. Oxigen is a metobolic posion for most organisms so..........

I'm not a chemist Bio or other otherwise so if I'm wrong don't slap me too hard.


eerrr....

Did you ever handle concentrated H2O2? Um, it's not, err, exactly, um, stable, to say the least. It can be used as propellant, in fact.

[geni]

Originally posted by jj
Did you ever handle concentrated H2O2? Um, it's not, err, exactly, um, stable, to say the least. It can be used as propellant, in fact.

This should make it very effective don't you agree? Give the person you are treating enough and you can stop worrying about whatever is causeing the problem and start looking for the number for the local decorators

[Charles Livingston]

Originally posted by Brown
The use of "patented technology" in the article caught my eye. I could find no U.S. patents or published U.S. patent applications in the name of "Aquamed" or "Oculus Innovative" or "MicroMed Consulting." (The names "Oculus" and "Micromed" are not unique to particular companies.)

That doesn't mean these guys are liars. It just means that there are no published patent documents with the companies' names on them. U.S. Patents are issued in the names of individuals, not companies, and although it is permissible to list a company on a patent as an assignee, it is not required. Also, not all patent applications are subject to publication.

Aquamed Technologies has a published foreign patent application, No. WO 02/24208, which has an abstract that appears to pertain to the use of lignins for coating for medical devices and pharmaceuticals. The coating is purportedly to prevent thrombosis and rejection of medical implants and secondary infections. Perhaps this document describes the technology? I don't have enough of a chemical background to know for sure, but the application appears to describe something a bit different from what the article describes.

This foreign application cites to a US patent application (not an issued patent), which is not published.

You can read the application here (PDF) (http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=EP1328279&RPN=WO0224208&DOC=deb45b02a96019d28d46fdbc843ce3b35a).

Edited to add: there are no U.S. patents or published U.S. patent applications in the name of oculusis.

Unless opted for early publication, US patent applications are not published until 18 months after the filing date. Thus, its very possible they have filed an application within the last 18 months and it just isnt public knowledge yet. Also, it would be rare for this type of application not to be assigned to the company and if assigned, the company would certainly be listed on the front page of the patent. You can search by assignee (it appears you already know that).

[Brown]

Originally posted by Charles Livingston
Unless opted for early publication, US patent applications are not published until 18 months after the filing date. Thus, its very possible they have filed an application within the last 18 months and it just isnt public knowledge yet. Also, it would be rare for this type of application not to be assigned to the company and if assigned, the company would certainly be listed on the front page of the patent. You can search by assignee (it appears you already know that). Generally correct. In this case, however, the patent application has been on file since 2000, and therefore was filed before the publication rules (which have not been in effect very long) went into effect. The patent will be published when it is issued, assuming that it ever is issued, but the patent application filed in 2000 will not be published in the ordinary course.

There are benefits to recording an assignee with the Patent Office, but there is a modest $40 fee associated with it and it is not legally required. Also, the named assignee might not be the actual assignee (this can happen when, for example, one company buys the assets of the assignee, including its patents).

It is possible that a patent has been issued for the technology to somebody named (for example) John T. Smythe. Perhaps Mr. Smythe works for Oculus but his assignment was not recorded, or perhaps his assets or his company's assets have recently been purchased by Oculus, or perhaps Oculus has taken an exclusive license to his invention. In circumstances such as these, the only name on the patent might be Mr. Smythe's, and the name of Oculus or its affiliated companies might not appear at all.

[TillEulenspiegel]

Originally posted by jj



eerrr....

Did you ever handle concentrated H2O2? Um, it's not, err, exactly, um, stable, to say the least. It can be used as propellant, in fact.

You know I remember when I was a kid there was a guy mane of Craig Breedlove who had the land speed record at the Bonneville salt flats with a car called spirit of America. He build a Spirit 2 and it was alcohol and peroxide powered. Jet no moving parts just two screens in the expansion manifold of the rocket. Think they were nickle and silver. Think they provided the catalyst for the ignition. Cool stuff

Edit to add:
Just googled the guy. He's still at it at 62. Making records in a jet powered car. Amazing
http://www.salon.com/people/rewind/1999/07/31/breedlove/

[jj]

Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel

Edit to add:
Just googled the guy. He's still at it at 62. Making records in a jet powered car. Amazing
http://www.salon.com/people/rewind/1999/07/31/breedlove/

Yep. When I was a kid I was an Art Arfons fan, he lived close to where I grew up and would hang around with fans at the dragstrips and chat about trying to set land-speed records.

I have no idea what's become of him. It would be safe, therefore, to assume I know of his biggest competitor :)

But I gather Craig is still around. This is good. For some reason I gather Art isn't.

[TillEulenspiegel]

SUNDAY!.............SUNDAY!....Don Gartlis explodes off the line with a nitro fueled injected funny car ! Sunday Sunday ! at US 30 Drag-way!

[patnray]

Concentrated hydrogen peroxide is quite toxic, corrosive, and even explosive. Could be other oxygen compounds, such as perchlorates or hypochlorites (bleach). But these are ordinary compounds and not necessarily safe...

[jj]

Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel
SUNDAY!.............SUNDAY!....Don Gartlis explodes off the line with a nitro fueled injected funny car ! Sunday Sunday ! at US 30 Drag-way!

***blink***

Where ARE you from? I've heard that very commercial on WHOT in Youngstown, Oh.

[geni]

Originally posted by patnray
Concentrated hydrogen peroxide is quite toxic, corrosive, and even explosive. Could be other oxygen compounds, such as perchlorates or hypochlorites (bleach). But these are ordinary compounds and not necessarily safe...

Well I was thinking of some of the super oxides of the group 1 metals but I wouldn't descibe these as safe either.

[Prester John]

If it has recieved some form of approval then presumably it has passed some form of independant testing by the Mexican ministery of health. This sort of testing is very easy to do.

However, the product would seem to be very effective, it can kill viruses, bacteria, spores and moulds. Now to me this is a varied group, with moulds and spores being quite resistant to disinfection. An agent that can kill these would, to me, be a relativley toxic agent, which runs counter to the companies claims of being non toxic.

Another red flag is the lack of information on the actual agent being used. What is it, what is its' mode of action ? There do not appear to be any references on Microcyn in Pubmed.

Being a microbiologist, i would want more information on the agent and its mode of action. The disinfectants we use in the lab are certainly not "non toxic" and if this agent does what is says and is "non toxic" then they will have a large market. Given the lack of actual information compared to the claims i would be very cautious.

If they are able to supply a sample to the UK i can do some basic testing on bacteria and bacterial spores to determine the effectiveness of the agent.
PJ

[TillEulenspiegel]

Originally posted by jj


***blink***

Where ARE you from? I've heard that very commercial on WHOT in Youngstown, Oh.

HEHE I think we all heard this type of commercial ( If you were alive in the '60s that is . Spent ( misspent? ) my youth in Chicago.

I could not make out anything but vague generality's. The description brought to mind H2O2 because it is anti microbial, I rinse my mouth out with %2 solution. There's also this whole exploding consumer market for Oxy this and Oxy that. What are those compounds? They don't appear to be bleaches ( from the commercials ) never had any so I don't know the ingredients.

[jj]

Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel
I could not make out anything but vague generality's. The description brought to mind H2O2 because it is anti microbial, I rinse my mouth out with %2 solution. There's also this whole exploding consumer market for Oxy this and Oxy that. What are those compounds? They don't appear to be bleaches ( from the commercials ) never had any so I don't know the ingredients.

As far as I could tell on the subject, there is, frankly, no information to be had.

Claims, yes. It could be soap.