Stupid Truther Memes: "Fire Can't Melt Steel"

[Walter Ego]

From a recent comment on one of my You Tube videos:

The meaning of this video: Some people would believe fire could melt steel, if a lot people told them that fire could melt steel.


(That truther's YT channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/JZJYRWO) also contains this gem, among others: "The government never tells us the truth about anything. So why do we believe them after the impossible has happened?")

Of all the stupid truther memes, "fire can't melt steel" has to be one of the dumbest. How do these clowns think steel is made? (Yeah, I know they're saying the fires in the WTC weren't hot enough to melt the steel but the steel didn't have to melt to lose it structural integrity and the statement itself is prima facie stupid.)

I've noticed in my limited contact with real live truthers that they just repeat catch phrases like this as if the mere repetition of the phrase proves something. It's obvious they've never given a moment's thought to what they're actually saying and if what they're saying even means anything.

I've got some other examples but I thought I'd let some of the other forum members chime in first.

What's your favorite stupid truther meme or catch phrase?

[Dog Town]

First time in history, never before, etc...

[DGM]

"free-fall speed" has always been my favorite.

[Oystein]

Fall/not fall into its footprint.
What is this magic footprint?
What would it prove?

[ozeco41]

"free-fall speed" has always been my favorite.
I'm not sure if this is what you meant but....

The implied claim that "free fall" always means CD and can never result from natural processes.

Many 'debunkers' seem to have fallen for that truther meme because we see lot's of arguments trying to disprove 'free fall' when the response could easily be "So what".

[DGM]

I'm not sure if this is what you meant but....

The implied claim that "free fall" always means CD and can never result from natural processes.

Many 'debunkers' seem to have fallen for that truther meme because we see lot's of arguments trying to disprove 'free fall' when the response could easily be "So what".
That too but. what exactly is the speed of "free-fall?

[grandmastershek]

80+ Pentagon videos.

Flight 93 was destined for WTC 7.

Black smoke means oxygen starved.

Aluminum can't cut steel.

[Julio]

Manoeuvres of AA77 are impossible for professional pilots


And I have to agree there: a professional pilot wouldn't have done it so badly.

[ozeco41]

That too but. what exactly is the speed of "free-fall?

Yes. Then add all the deceleration v less acceleration confusion. In fact all the basic relationships of V and A which 'they' regularly get confused.

[Architect]

I thought the one about steel wicking away heat so quickly that it could never fail was an obsolute corker.

[Macgyver1968]

"through the path of greatest resistance" is always a favorite of mine.

[Walter Ego]

That too but. what exactly is the speed of "free-fall?

Some of the dumber truthers (including, if I remember correctly, Jesse Ventura) have said "the speed of gravity," which is more of a knee-slapper.

While it can be cruel to laugh at genuinely stupid people, laughing at the willfully stupid is perfectly acceptable. They deserve our mockery.

[CompusMentus]

Hi-jackers still alive.

No hi-jackers names on a victim list.

Mobile phones don't work on aircraft.


Compus

[Dog Town]

It looks like a CD, but not really!

[JohnG]

Of all the stupid truther memes, "fire can't melt steel" has to be one of the dumbest. How do these clowns think steel is made?


Temper, temper.

[George152]

Temper, temper.

Well, that's the next step

[ProBonoShill]

"The buildings were brought down with explosives" has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard considering all the video available that disproves this claim.

[Oystein]

Hanjour was such a bad pilot that he couldn't land a plane.

D'uh - he never intended to!

[Dave Rogers]

Zero net force.

Dave

[JAStewart]

Silverstein1!11eleventy1!11

[CompusMentus]

Steel turned to dust.


Compus

[tsig]

Secret military weapons no one knows about.

[ElMondoHummus]

Of all the stupid truther memes, "fire can't melt steel" has to be one of the dumbest. How do these clowns think steel is made? (Yeah, I know they're saying the fires in the WTC weren't hot enough to melt the steel but the steel didn't have to melt to lose it structural integrity and the statement itself is prima facie stupid.)

Well Walter, it gets me too, but for a different reason than what you or anyone else here has mentioned. It bugs me because it's actually a corruption and oversimplification of the original argument. In other words, truthers had to dumb it down when it was pretty simple and straightforward to begin with.

Anyone else remember way back, when the argument wasn't just "fire can't melt steel", but "jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel"? That was the actual argument, and oddly enough had a real basis in fact, even though it was misapplied in the case of the Twin Towers. Back then, the notion was that jet fuel burning couldn't have gotten hot enough to have rendered the steel molten. And again, in open air, jet fuel by itself does indeed fail to reach that temperature. For context, we have to remember that even knowledgeable people like Thomas Eager referenced steel melting in the days immediately after the collapse, so that was indeed the dominant, accepted argument at the time, even alluded to in the FEMA BPR's, if I remember it right (someone correct me if I'm wrong). The truthers thought they had a point about jet fuel in regards to the structural steel of the towers. And on the surface, it's a legitimate point.

Of course, we know now that this is flawed even just in application to the specific case of the Twin Towers. We're aware of the fact that jet fuel was far from being the only combustant, and in fact was far from being the majority fuel available. Furthermore, we're all very aware of the fact that the columns never melted to begin with. So the entire idea was a red herring from the very start. Steel never melted, so therfore it's utterly irrelevant what could have caused such a phenomenon.

But taking the argument on it's own terms, I'm struck by how even something so simple as "jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel" - again, a true statement that's misapplied - is misunderstood by the very truther advocates who peddle the corrupted, oversimplified version. They took a statement that was jack-easy to remember and dumbed it down!! :eye-poppi

I'm flabbergasted by that. What in heaven's name is so hard about remembering the original argument?

And if the claim shifted to avoid the counterargument that jet fuel wasn't the only fuel available, why in God's name do they shift it in THAT direction?? Fire can't melt steel? What, they've never heard of a freakin' forge before??

I mean, the argument bugs me because it's so emblamatic of the utter ignorance too many truthers display. Knowing the origin and degeneration of the wording of this claim makes patently clear that the driving force behind 9/11 "truth" isn't learning what actually happened, but rather selling a mythic fiction in place of established history. Instead of realizing "Oh, steel didn't melt, and the claim is inapplicable to begin with", they morphed it into something so abysmally stupid that it's refutable even without reference to specifics about the Twin Towers. It's wrong period, nevermind how it's wrong in relation to 9/11 history.

That's what bugs me about this. It goes beyond the claim being wrong on its face. It's actually a representation of the basic avoidance of truth on the part of 9/11 conspiracy fantasists. It's a summation of ignorance.

[sheeplesnshills]

Saudi Pilots...........as if Saudis are somehow genetically incapable of flying planes.

[Edx]

Saudi Pilots...........as if Saudis are somehow genetically incapable of flying planes.

Sand people in caves can't fly, duh. They can barely speak, I mean I can't understand them? "Derka Derka Mohammad Jihad". Nonsense.

[grandmastershek]

"Pull It" is an industry term for bringing a building down with explosives.

[Edx]

"Pull It" is an industry term for bringing a building down with explosives.

You can't poe us, you need to set up another account ;)

[grandmastershek]

Its ridiculous to believe 9/11 was orchestrated by a guy from a desert cave.

[MikeW]

The PNAC called for a "new Pearl Harbour"
Rumsfeld "announced" the "missing" $2.3 trillion on 9/10 because he knew it was a "good day to bury bad news"
How could 19 <insert appropriate insult here> controlled by a man in a cave outwit the most powerful defence system in the world

...and it's not so popular these days, but I still fondly remember...

"The Pentagon is the best defended building in the world"

(And I suppose there's something related in the idea that "it's the Pentagon, it must have had more cameras", as though they qualify as a defence)

[DGM]

The PNAC called for a "new Pearl Harbour"


But, Was that "propitious"?




:boxedin:





:duck:

[Brainster]

What are the odds?

All the "Merry Pason" confessions, like Pull It or Bush's claim to have seen the first plane hit on the TV or Rumsfeld saying that a missile hit the Pentagon. Even better is when they claim that those confessions are a trap, a "honey pot" intended to draw attention and distract researchers.

[Brainster]

argggh! Dupe post

[A W Smith]

"multiple corroboration" of north of citgo witnesses,

[ElMondoHummus]

"The Pentagon is the best defended building in the world"

But you know it is! It's so well defended, pilots landing at DCA love flying close by to luxuriate in its safety!
g03VBCbb2q8&t=
SYV9rzPfJo4&
(2:28 and 0:46 marks respectively... sorry, YouTube time start index code doesn't wok with these yt tags, for some odd reason.)

[Sabretooth]

It looks like a CD, but not really!

This one is my fav right now.

It was a CD, but it was made to not look like a CD, and you can only tell the difference with grainy utube videos!!!!!11!!!!

[GlennB]

^ a lot of those ^ especially 'zero net force' and other references to Newton's 3rd law.

Plus - the smoke gushing from WTC7 was actually drifting up from WTC5+6

[Monza]

"Look at the video! It looks just like a controlled demolition!"

Well, first of all the towers collapse initiation was at the impact point, not at the base of the structure as in most (all?) controlled demotlitions. Second, a controlled demolition is still a demolition. What is the demolition of a building supposed to look like? The only noticiable artifacts of a controlled demolition are the ordered sequence of explosives, relative lack of damage of nearby structures and post-mortem evidence (demo cord, pre-cut structual members, etc.), none of which was present on 9/11.

[Hokulele]

"Pyroclastic clouds".

[alienentity]

Well, first of all the towers collapse initiation was at the impact point, not at the base of the structure as in most (all?) controlled demotlitions.

According to the vids I've seen, the detonations often run all over the buildings, in sequences, but not restricted to the base.

In any case, none of those things happened to the WTC buildings, further negating the truther argument.

[chipmunk stew]

"Cui bono?"

"False flag op"

"Just asking questions"

[Minadin]

I thought the one about steel wicking away heat so quickly that it could never fail was an obsolute corker.

We'd have a bunch of angry clients, wouldn't we?

[Dave Rogers]

It looked exactly like a controlled demolition in every respect, so it can only possibly have been a controlled demolition, and the fact that it didn't actually look very much like a controlled demolition at all just showed that it was an unconventional controlled demolition, because the conspirators wouldn't have been stupid enough to make it look exactly like a controlled demolition in every respect.

Dave

[Oystein]

"Made out like a bandit"

[achimspok]

It's amazing! Someone post a comment of an obvious completely uneducated idiot and lot of those super-engineers have a comment on it.

No guys, the cited one has nothing to do with "Truth Movement" whatsoever.

[Oystein]

It's amazing! Someone post a comment of an obvious completely uneducated idiot and lot of those super-engineers have a comment on it.

No guys, the cited one has nothing to do with "Truth Movement" whatsoever.

Do you mean to say that no one in the TM publishes the "can't melt steel" meme?

Well, go to the Petition Signers list of AE911T (engineers only in this case):
http://www2.ae911truth.org/supporters.php?g=_ENGSONLY_
Look up the statements of:

Aaron Ashkinazy
Shelton R. Hendriex
Joe P. Lackie
Vinnie Rossi
Michael T. Donly
Jeffrey C. Becker
Edmond (Monty) John Forbes
Peter E. Stutz
James N. Busby
Rhett C. Winter
Gary Anderson
Kenneth L. Keil
Bradley Pattee
Paul Briggs
Amanda Lea Taylor
Adam C. Sherman
Arman P. Arashvand
Amy J. O'Brien
Kathryn J. Pate
Jonathan S. Johns
Mark Basile
Matthew E. H. Petering
Alan Nakamura
James Raymond Catterall
Todd A. Smutz
Ashok Shah
Doug R. de la Torre
Eric Robert Lorenzo Catuccio


Out of 793 "engineers" on that list fooled by Gage to sign that fraud, no less than 28 (3.5%) make it very explicit that part of the reason they signed is that they have internalized the multiply stupid meme "fuel can't melt steel".


Maybe we should do a project: Go through the Signers list and count how many support which stupid meme. Discard all those who explicitly support a stupid meme. And see how many are left.

Then step two, contact them individually, and educate them about the stupidity of their public pronouncements.

[A W Smith]

"Powder monkeys"

[tfk]

It's amazing! Someone post a comment of an obvious completely uneducated idiot and lot of those super-engineers have a comment on it.

No guys, the cited one has nothing to do with "Truth Movement" whatsoever.


Are you an engineer, achimspok?

If so, what kind?
What is you specific professional work experience?
How long?

[NutCracker]

Do you mean to say that no one in the TM publishes the "can't melt steel" meme?

[snip]

Maybe we should do a project: Go through the Signers list and count how many support which stupid meme. Discard all those who explicitly support a stupid meme. And see how many are left.

Then step two, contact them individually, and educate them about the stupidity of their public pronouncements.


Let us not forget the honorable Prof. Dr. S. Jones singing marvelous tunes (http://www.bentham.org/open/tociej/articles/V002/35TOCIEJ.pdf) like "fire is not hot enough to melt steel" (in C sharp minor) and "the towers collapsed in near free fall" (in G minor). The article in the link also provides the atonal "the towers where designed for jet impacts" and "the core columns where massive."

[RedIbis]

Maybe we should do a project: Go through the Signers list and count how many support which stupid meme. Discard all those who explicitly support a stupid meme. And see how many are left.

Then step two, contact them individually, and educate them about the stupidity of their public pronouncements.

Go for it.

[Dave Rogers]

Go for it.

Yes, because people who say stupid things are always capable of understanding how stupid are the things that they say.

Dave

[Dog Town]

It looked exactly like a controlled demolition in every respect, so it can only possibly have been a controlled demolition, and the fact that it didn't actually look very much like a controlled demolition at all just showed that it was an unconventional controlled demolition, because the conspirators wouldn't have been stupid enough to make it look exactly like a controlled demolition in every respect.

Dave

Ahem, not quite as long winded, but... http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6750846&postcount=14

[Dog Town]

Faster than free fall!

Broke the laws of physics!

Police state!

Truth movement!

[Sabretooth]

Faster than free fall!

Broke the laws of physics!

Police state!

Truth movement!

Can they really call it a movement when it doesn't go anywhere?

:confused:

:D

[twinstead]

Can they really call it a movement when it doesn't go anywhere?


Oh, it's a movement alright. Just not the kind they think; it's the one that comes regularly if you eat enough fiber.

[aggle-rithm]

"They're taking away our constitutional rights!" when they couldn't name more than two constitutional rights if their life depended on it.

[aggle-rithm]

Faster than free fall!


At one point they tried to change it to "the speed of gravity", but someone pointed out that this is 186,000 miles per second.

[Sabretooth]

At one point they tried to change it to "the speed of gravity", but someone pointed out that this is 186,000 miles per second.

EuFAFPjbdy4

[George152]

At one point they tried to change it to "the speed of gravity", but someone pointed out that this is 186,000 miles per second.

Gotta change my logbooks.
At that speed I have absolutely no time in freefall.
Bummer

[BadBoy]

When I started browsing this forum, I think the most astonishing moment was when I followed a link to a video (loose change?) where a guy called Ace something was in all sincerity trying to propose that the planes never hit the buildings and the videos were all faked in realtime.

The reason I found it so astonishing was the guy seemed to be both articulate/knowledgeable and stupid/nuts at the same time and if he was acting devils advocate he was doing a very good job. :eek:

The more you know, the more you know you dont know.
The more I know about truthers, the more I know they dont know

[Fly Poster]

"never before has a high rise building collapsed from fire alone, yet on one day we see three"
- I hate that one, in fact any twoofer saying "we see" gets on my wick.

[Dave Rogers]

When I started browsing this forum, I think the most astonishing moment was when I followed a link to a video (loose change?) where a guy called Ace something was in all sincerity trying to propose that the planes never hit the buildings and the videos were all faked in realtime.

Ace Baker is quite an extraordinary case. There's a strong body of opinion in favour of the belief that he's actually mentally ill. He even went so far as to stage a mock suicide on a radio phone-in. In many ways he's quite intelligent, but he's a long way out of touch with reality.

Dave

[aggle-rithm]

"never before has a high rise building collapsed from fire alone, yet on one day we see three"
- I hate that one, in fact any twoofer saying "we see" gets on my wick.

When they say that I reply, "Can you think of anything else that may have happened that day, that never happened before? Maybe there's a connection."

[Oystein]

"They're taking away our constitutional rights!" when they couldn't name more than two constitutional rights if their life depended on it.

You get the same meme from many other CTs as well. Had the same thrown at me by someone takin in by EU/NAFTA woo. Same result: When pressed to name at least one such right, my resident wooist scrambled up two - and in both cases it turned out that that particular right was, in the context we were discussing (Treaty of Lisbon) not only upheld, but reinforced and extended to more citizens.

[Grizzly Bear]

it takes over 4,000 dgerees of consstant and fed temperatures to make steel unstable and this takes numerous hours, over 12 hours in an electric arc, gas or ingot oven.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=4466582#post4466582

[NutCracker]

When they say that I reply, "Can you think of anything else that may have happened that day, that never happened before? Maybe there's a connection."


I came across that one as well, once or twice. Loved it. The tone of the writing was as if out of the blue, without notice or warning, a skyscraper came tumbling down. Then another one. Then another one. Brilliant. For some reason it wasn't followed up by the near obligatory "coincidence? Don't think so." At such times there is a glimmer of hope in me that deep down they know that their arguments don't make sense.

[chipmunk stew]

When I started browsing this forum, I think the most astonishing moment was when I followed a link to a video (loose change?) where a guy called Ace something was in all sincerity trying to propose that the planes never hit the buildings and the videos were all faked in realtime.

The reason I found it so astonishing was the guy seemed to be both articulate/knowledgeable and stupid/nuts at the same time and if he was acting devils advocate he was doing a very good job. :eek:

The more you know, the more you know you dont know.
The more I know about truthers, the more I know they dont know
I believe that would be Ace Baker, the bard of 9/11 Truth, composer of this glowing ode to Judy Wood (http://www.acebaker.com/9-11/JudyWood/JudyWould.html), among other gems.

It is rather off-putting how someone can be coherent and articulate while also being so detached from reality.

[twinstead]

My favorite stupid truther meme is, "9-11 was an inside job".

[Maribat]

When I enrolled to "let's roll" pro cospiracy site the most rated word I heard there was "agenda". After several posts there I was accused of plotting some agenda. Then it was repeated with some regularity. Like -

9-11 and the war agenda

very un-American political and racial agenda called Zionism

in order to hide his real agenda, which is as the "bad guy."

destroying buildings in order to advance a government agenda.

[A W Smith]

Iron Sphericals

In my cereals!

General Mills was an inside jobby job!

3IWbThJpGXc

[CompusMentus]

One word....

Footprint.


Compus

[WhisperingEye]

I've always been fond of the "WTC elevator renovation as cover for planting explosives" bit. Or as I like to call it, "The Hans Gruber Effect"

[aggle-rithm]

An old one, from the Loose Change forums:

"We're in a crisis situation! We don't have TIME for dissenting viewpoints!"

[triforcharity]

"NFPA 921 says....." From Eric Liar......OOPS. Lawyer.

[Monza]

"Klunkity-klunk"

[JohnG]

"Klunkity-klunk"

Don't talk bunk!

[NYCEMT86]

"The firefighter were in on it"

"Jedi mind trick"

"Lasers from Space"

[Maribat]

Pentacon

[ihaunter]

pyroclastic

Still hear this every now and then. Generally, not used as an argument anymore, just as a commonly accepted description of the dust cloud for them. A big, scary word that none of them seem to know the meaning of.

[aggle-rithm]

pyroclastic

Still hear this every now and then. Generally, not used as an argument anymore, just as a commonly accepted description of the dust cloud for them. A big, scary word that none of them seem to know the meaning of.

I remember when some truther tried to modify Wikipedia so that "pyroclastic flow" meant what they wanted it to mean. As if they can alter reality that way....

[A W Smith]

I remember when some truther tried to modify Wikipedia so that "pyroclastic flow" meant what they wanted it to mean. As if they can alter reality that way....

Yes, that would have been cmatrix :dl:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pyroclastic_flow

[carlitos]

Yes, that would have been cmatrix :dl:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pyroclastic_flow

Oh my...

Most despicable truther meme - VicSims

[triforcharity]

I made a little note for Cmatrix about the the word pyro so that he doesn't get confused. ;)

[Barber Shop]

My favorite Truther meme is 'official version.'

It is an attempt to make it sound like everybody else is just drinking the 9/11 Commission Kool-Aid. It is a little verbal trick used by Truthers to depict others as naive.

But it actually comes from a multitude of sources and investigators. It is not just the 'official story' of the US government; it is actually the story accepted by many people and groups. It is the story that is most widely accepted, answers the most questions, fits best with the evidence, etc.

[triforcharity]

Heres another that is laughable.

"Black smoke means oxygen-starved fire".

This proves otherwise.

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20110121/BREAKINGNEWS/110121023/1-dead-in-Merritt-Island-tanker-truck-fire

I drove past it not to long ago. HUGE mess!!

Sent from my Blackberry on the Sprint Now Network

[grandmastershek]

No plane hit WTC 7.

[George152]

It was thermite.
NO.
It was thermate.
NO.
It was nanothermite.
NO.
It was hushaboom.
NO
It was thermite.
NO

[Andy Heron]

"Shady government operatives"