Their Return

[dafydd]

THAT'S exactly what I'd hope would happen. It would symbolize our equality.

Showing us that they are 'god' at all...

Would there be handicaps if they have four legs and four arms? Just out out of interest,how many people have signed up for this Moment Skyward nonsense? "Showing us that they are ''god'' at all'' is not grammatically correct and is meaningless. Is English your first language?

[dafydd]

What will the Christians do if Jesus doesn't show and Mithras turns up?

[dafydd]

My bet's on a huge four dimensional white mouse.

[Stray Cat]

Have you read about or heard of the 1942 west coast U.F.O. event wherein we fired tens of thousands of anti-aircraft rounds, at this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Battle_of_Los_Angeles_LATimes.jpg
Have you read any further than the misrepresented, sensationalistic reports written up by UFOlogists?... Supported by a heavily retouched photo that doesn't actually show anything? ;)

[Psiload]

Maybe like 12...?

An ambassador and a few personal guards...

*Ideally, I'd hope they bring some athletes to compete.

And again, how do you see that going over? When like a dozen gods show up and shatter the milinnenia-old monotheistic beliefs and devotions of billions of people? Do you honestly think it will all be brushed aside as we join hands(tentacles?) and head over to the hurdles and high jump?

And what if it turns out that the ET gods are three inches tall and 60 feet wide? How might that effect the day's track and field events?

You're obviously playing this out in your head like a bad sci-fi movie script... a rejected script. Seriously, it's embarrassing. Grow up already.

[Halfcentaur]

Alien 1: "Commander, these humans have been obsessing over finding life on another planet for over a century of their time now, they are constantly creating new stories of elaborate scenarios imagining us, while sending signals pleading for other species to communicate with them, even going so far as to send invitations into space within probes. We see them on the internet, bickering over the truth of our existence. Should we not say hello, sir?"

Alien 2: "No, lieutenant. You see, there are very specific protocols in place. They must accept on pretty much faith alone by looking at dozens of events in their history that we exist and are waiting for them to formally ask us in a large group to make contact. There are rules you know. The dots must be connected by those few insightful individuals willing to do so, who then must convince the rest of them to trust in these insights. And they must all ask us at the same time."

Alien 1: "Oh. I hope they make another Star Trek movie. "

[EHocking]

And this is where your Willful Ignorance takes over. Please stop using this phrase, it is quite obvious that you do not know what it means.

Your continual use of it, out of context, in your posts does nothing to enhance anyone's assessment of your debating skills here.

[Psiload]

In retrospect, I see this navy vet's 'story' as meaning "radar returns = airplanes...not 'birds' or heavy fog".

He said the radar returns were mistaken for something other than a Japanese Air Armada, and so the initial alarm was not sounded.

We don't need the bar stool blabber of a wannabe, because we have the real story.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20100227a4.html

SAN DIEGO (AP) An American pilot who dismissed initial reports of what turned out to be the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor has died at age 96.

Kermit Tyler was an Army Air Force first lieutenant on temporary duty at Ft. Shafter's radar information center in Hawaii on Dec. 7, 1941, when two privates reported seeing an unusually large blip on their radar screen, indicating a large number of aircraft about 210 km away and fast approaching.

"Don't worry about it," Tyler famously replied, thinking it was a flight of U.S. B-17 bombers that was due in from the mainland.



Have you read about or heard of the 1942 west coast U.F.O. event wherein we fired tens of thousands of anti-aircraft rounds, at this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Battle_of_Los_Angeles_LATimes.jpg

You sure do love confabulation, don't you?

[dafydd]

Have you read any further than the misrepresented, sensationalistic reports written up by UFOlogists?... Supported by a heavily retouched photo that doesn't actually show anything? ;)

Obviously not.

[dafydd]

How many people have signed up for this Moment Skyward?

[EHocking]

How many people have signed up for this Moment Skyward?35!
:dl:

:alien011:

[dafydd]

35!
:dl:

:alien011:

35 out of 7 billion. It's on a roll,they will have to come down now.

[Yeah_Right]

I'm not signing anything, if they come down and attack as in that Battle Los Angeles flick.

[tsig]

There were "6" star-like objects, and the ONE semetrical cloud they emerged from.

The thing that I find disagreement with, is that if a singular mistake, or god forbid a typo occurs then you and other think it is okay to toss the whole account...

Given, it is 'common' for people to misremember, make mistakes in recollection, or otherwise be incorrect about about an event or sighting, you are safe from ANY report...simply because no one has a 100% perfect memory.

And this is where your Willful Ignorance takes over.

No one is perfect, so NO REPORTS can be accepted as containing any truth.

I relayed another anecdote about a fake diamond I saw as a child. Have you made the phone call that would confirm or deny this story?

Phone #? Email? Address?

[dafydd]

Kota,have you been in touch with the Olympic organizers? If yes,please share the reply.

[King of the Americas]

...

You're obviously playing this out in your head like a bad sci-fi movie script... a rejected script. Seriously, it's embarrassing. Grow up already.

On second thought, THE BEST thing that could happen, is if they show up...but DON'T land. They just put on a show, then leave...

That would give you skeptics the opportunity to chill out a bit, and let it sink in that we are really not alone.

Then we could all talk about what to do next.

If they just showed up, in the flesh, I think that might redline too many people's freak-out-meter.

[King of the Americas]

Would there be handicaps if they have four legs and four arms? Just out out of interest,how many people have signed up for this Moment Skyward nonsense? "Showing us that they are ''god'' at all'' is not grammatically correct and is meaningless. Is English your first language?

I was thinking the whole event would lead us to making genetic modification as illegal as steriods...

[King of the Americas]

Phone #? Email? Address?

Did you find the number and make the call, yet?

[King of the Americas]

Have you read any further than the misrepresented, sensationalistic reports written up by UFOlogists?... Supported by a heavily retouched photo that doesn't actually show anything? ;)

I've only revently seen a History Channel summery of the event.

WHat do you mean the photo doesn't 'show' anything. The photograph WAS front page news, and clearly shows several lightes focused an a U.F.O...

2 things stick out in my head, the photograph and the fact that our military expended several thousand rounds above a civilian area, that suffered damages.

[King of the Americas]

35!
:dl:

:alien011:

I am going to repost it on another petition site.

You have to be on facebook, to sign this one.

Given I don't facebook, I haven't even signed it yet.

[TheGoldcountry]

All those people at the World Cup had their arms in the air, and that didn't bring them down. Maybe they hate vuvuzelas as much as some of us. What if the Olympic organizers use kazoos instead?

[bruto]

On second thought, THE BEST thing that could happen, is if they show up...but DON'T land. They just put on a show, then leave...

That would give you skeptics the opportunity to chill out a bit, and let it sink in that we are really not alone.

Then we could all talk about what to do next.

If they just showed up, in the flesh, I think that might redline too many people's freak-out-meter.I think it would be cool if they flew over and dropped money. No mantas from heaven though. From that altitude they become death rays.

[Stray Cat]

I've only revently seen a History Channel summery of the event.
Yes, the re-emergence of interest in the story probably has something to do with the multi-million dollar Hollywood movie being released.

WHat do you mean the photo doesn't 'show' anything. The photograph WAS front page news, and clearly shows several lightes focused an a U.F.O...
I don't think the photo was front page news. Though at least this time, it did appear in the newpaper.
And perhaps you could tell us how on a clear night, searchlights manage to leave such a distinct beam of light?
One of the comments at the time which questioned the theory that it was Japanese planes flying over, was why would the Japanese choose such a clear night when they were could so easily be seen. Now light when shone into clear skies doesn't leave a beam. Of course if the air were filled with AA explosive smoke, that would make the beams show up, but that would not be evident all the way down to ground level.

So we then look at how the beams of light managed to show so clearly. Looking at the poor quality of the negative, with it's grainy appearance and lack of detail, it is quite odd that the beams of light look smooth with very defined edges. Almost as if they were airbrushed on afterwards... go figure.

Now Frank Warren claims to have made prints from the original negative, which I presume means he has or at least had the original negative, but I've never seen any evidence to support this claim. If the original as reproduced by the LA times was available, then surely the records of the LA Times would also show the photographer's name, but again, we seem to have a photo that has no author, reproduced in a newspaper alongside several other photos that have various arrows, circles etc, superimposed on them, so why not 'enhance' the search light picture too?

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/ThePsychoClown/Battle-of-Blimp.jpg
Illustration: The Battle of Baghdad.

2 things stick out in my head, the photograph and the fact that our military expended several thousand rounds above a civilian area, that suffered damages.
So a couple of weeks after the attack on Pearl Harbour, a few days after a Japanese submarine had surfaced off the coast of LA and shelled an oil refinery, you think that the Coastal defence command wouldn't be a bit jittery?
That on that very night at about 3am, 2 illuminated weather balloons (capable of reaching 30,000 feet) were launched from Sawtelle Veteran's Hospital in Westwood and the Douglas Aircraft Plant Site in Santa Monica.

What is most likely taking all the evidence into account is that it was the balloons that were spotted and because of the high alert status at the time, some relatively inexperienced gunners opened fire. Not a single gunner at the time reported seeing any aircraft, balloons of flying saucers. They were blindly shooting up in the air and as the AA flack exploded, other gunners were shooting at it causing a chain reaction with everyone shooting at everyone else's flack. Eventually smoke build up may have lead to some people seeing faint images in the searchlight beams and leaving them with with a perception of seeing something slow moving, being shot at.

Certainly, it wasn't until years later that any talk of UFO's/Flying Saucers/Aliens comes into the story at all... but it takes time to develop a good myth as we all know.

[King of the Americas]

All those people at the World Cup had their arms in the air, and that didn't bring them down. Maybe they hate vuvuzelas as much as some of us. What if the Olympic organizers use kazoos instead?

Did the World Cup include "a moment skyward" to the program?

[King of the Americas]

...

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/ThePsychoClown/Battle-of-Blimp.jpg
Illustration: The Battle of Baghdad.


So a couple of weeks after the attack on Pearl Harbour, a few days after a Japanese submarine had surfaced off the coast of LA and shelled an oil refinery, you think that the Coastal defence command wouldn't be a bit jittery?
That on that very night at about 3am, 2 illuminated weather balloons (capable of reaching 30,000 feet) were launched from Sawtelle Veteran's Hospital in Westwood and the Douglas Aircraft Plant Site in Santa Monica.

...

Certainly, it wasn't until years later that any talk of UFO's/Flying Saucers/Aliens comes into the story at all... but it takes time to develop a good myth as we all know.

..there were "2" balloons...slow moving...that SURVIVED some 1,400 anti-aircraft shells? Wow, I'd always thought "balloons" were very light delicate things, easy to puncture...

If it was slow moving balloon, how would it have survived the barrage that put all that smack and smoke in the air, in order to be caught in the photograph???

Buddy, that doesn't make any sense, whatsoever.

But say it was a balloon, where is it? Did anyone see it rapidly descend once it was hit, and recover it?

And why would you post a picture that looks nothing like the original? (more mockery I presume).

Not everyone believes that it was balloons:

"...A strong editorial in the Washington Post on 27 February called the handling of the Los Angeles episode a "recipe for jitters," and censured the military authorities for what it called "stubborn silence" in the face of widespread uncertainty. The editorial suggested that the Army’s theory that commercial planes might have caused the alert "explains everything except where the planes came from, whither they were going, and why no American planes were sent in pursuit of them." The New York Times on 28 February expressed a belief that the more the incident was studied, the more incredible it became: "If the batteries were firing on nothing at all, as Secretary Knox implies, it is a sign of expensive incompetence and jitters. If the batteries were firing on real planes, some of them as low as 9,000 feet, as Secretary Stimson declares, why were they completely ineffective? Why did no American planes go up to engage them, or even to identify them?... What would have happened if this had been a real air raid?..."

Japan claims it never had any planes over the continental U.S.

Could you post a picture of one of those weather balloons, so we can compare it to the picture?

[carlitos]

And yet this silly request received serious responses. So the OP wants us to speculate how to entice an assumed non-human intelligent race that lives in the near proximity of earth to reveal themselves to us. Unfortunately they have hidden themselves so well that we only have fleeting glimpses of them and know nothing about their nature or motivations. I am still reading this thread sorry if this is currently irrelevant.

IF we assume that they are grooming us for fodder and DNA source material I would think that like attracting bird to land, or a raccoon to visit your porch you might place out a big bowl of food out in plain sight perhaps shine lights on it. Any large sporting event could also be applicable.

IF we assume that they are really super intelligent and are looking for peers not subjects. It would also be reasonable to also think that they will see through our clumsy attempts at appeasement and see us as the backwards race we are and not worthy of revelation yet. Perhaps they will reveal themselves once they have determined we have advanced far enough mentally. The appeasement / adoration you imply would clearly indicate to them that we are not ready.

IF we assume that they are a bunch of joy riding hot rods that get a kick out of coming down every now and them to buzz some small group out in the middle of nowhere. Then there is probably nothing we can due to entice them, they get their kicks out of being mysterious and don’t want the spot light. If they did they would have already taken center stage somewhere. The World Cup Finals would have been an excellent opportunity. As pointed out if they did descend it would turn ANY event into a major event and all eyes would be turned in that direction.

IF we assume that they are waiting for us to reach some sort of mental level that has abandoned superstition and that their revelation will not cause worldwide panic. I would imagine that they would be waiting for a large majority of us to adopt a scientific mindset instead of a superstitious one. The best way to get them to descend would be to have the majority of the world to abandon religions and convert all the Houses of Worship into sometime more useful like parking lots, brothels or play grounds.

IF we assume that they are allergic to or find poisonous the trace byproducts of the burning of fossil fuels then they will not descend until we move completely to alternate energy methods and then atmosphere had been cleansed through natural processes.

IF we assume that they are out there and want to deal with humans on a business level perhaps they are already doing that. But they know that by revealing themselves they will cause significant damage to the economy and cause significant instability in the political realm. This would not be a problem is the majority of the world was largely under the sway of say a large corporation or a one world government. They are waiting on the New World Order or Wal-Mart to come to power so they only have to negotiate one treaty instead of hundreds.

IF we assume that they have developed sensory organs that can detect the radio frequency range they will probably not descend until we abandon that technology or they develop filters that do not affect their ability to communicate.

IF we assume that they find the odor of concrete or asphalt offensive that would explain why they never actually land in cities or populated areas. To get them to descend we would need to tear down all the concrete structures and rip up all the asphalt and find alternate construction methods and materials.

IF we assume that they really don’t care what we do or think and are nothing more than lab animals or pets, I think that anything that we do would solicit no more than a note in a technicians log book or an ‘isn’t that cute’ from a more kind hearted individual… if they have hearts…

If we assume that they actually feed off the psychic energy generated by emotional turmoil the best way to get them to descend would be to establish world peace. This would cause them to starve and force them out. However if this is the case they would probably do something to destabilize the Peace that has been established by setting themselves of as the enemy that we can’t reach. Perhaps they would operate covertly with targeted assassinations turning body guards on their charges when they appear too reasonable, initiate riots to destabilize governments, plant evidence of WMDs to instigate wars, fund fundamentalist organizations of all stripes to keep us at odds with each other and destroy our common round, call in to talk radio shows…

Whee that was fun.

Well that would largely depend on three factors:

1. Why did they remove themselves from the surface?

2. Why have they chosen not to reveal themselves publicly before?

3. What is it they want from us ultimately?

At this time the evidence is tenuous regarding thier existance but we have granted that for the sake of discussion. Once we have established some real information not just speculation about at least one of the factors above perhaps we might stand a chance of coming up with a reasonable plan.

If we are just playing pretend we can have some fun with lots of plausible things that answer the question. However if you want to make this an actionalable plan then please provide for the board the data (not just speculation) you have regarding how you have arrived at an answer to the questions above.

[Stray Cat]

..there were "2" balloons...slow moving...that SURVIVED some 1,400 anti-aircraft shells? Wow, I'd always thought "balloons" were very light delicate things, easy to puncture...
On the whole they are. However, if they are somewhere around 30,000 feet and the AA batteries which were equipped with 3" guns could only reach a height of 25,000 feet, they would have survived without a scratch.

If it was slow moving balloon, how would it have survived the barrage that put all that smack and smoke in the air, in order to be caught in the photograph???
See above (that's the reply directly above, not simply take a moment skywards).

Buddy, that doesn't make any sense, whatsoever.
I know it won't make sense to you. Because you genuinely employ willful ignorance. If you looked at all the evidence, you would see that which is verifiable from records of the time.

But say it was a balloon, where is it? Did anyone see it rapidly descend once it was hit, and recover it?
If the balloon or both of them were what was seen, It/they wasn't hit, it/they was too high.

And why would you post a picture that looks nothing like the original? (more mockery I presume).
It's called recycling. I made that picture last year sometime when this case was discussed in Rramjet's UFO thread... Yes, a bit of mockery.

Not everyone believes that it was balloons:
Correct, not everyone believes it was balloons. I don't believe it was balloons either. I have no idea what it was. However, there is verifiable evidence to show that 2 illuminated weather balloons were released in the vicinity at about the time this kerfuffle started and therefore it is a more likely explanation than some aliens in a space ship. And furthermore, an explanation that has not been ruled out by those promoting a more exotic explanation.

"...A strong editorial in the Washington Post on 27 February called the handling of the Los Angeles episode a "recipe for jitters," and censured the military authorities for what it called "stubborn silence" in the face of widespread uncertainty. The editorial suggested that the Army’s theory that commercial planes might have caused the alert "explains everything except where the planes came from, whither they were going, and why no American planes were sent in pursuit of them." The New York Times on 28 February expressed a belief that the more the incident was studied, the more incredible it became: "If the batteries were firing on nothing at all, as Secretary Knox implies, it is a sign of expensive incompetence and jitters. If the batteries were firing on real planes, some of them as low as 9,000 feet, as Secretary Stimson declares, why were they completely ineffective? Why did no American planes go up to engage them, or even to identify them?... What would have happened if this had been a real air raid?..."
Hey go figure, when the Japanese submarine surfaced and started shooting at an oil refinery in LA 2 weeks before, the US military didn't even get a single retaliatory shot in and they didn't half get some stick for that. This time they made sure they shot lots (even though there may have been nothing there to shoot at). As for why no planes were sent up, well I guess the people on the ground at the time realised that the AA gunners were shooting at nothing or a balloon and decided not to bother. It's no surprise that the military didn't want talk about it... there was a war on you know.


Japan claims it never had any planes over the continental U.S.
No it doesn't. Japanese war records (examined after their surrender in 1945) mention at least one bombing raid on the US in 1942, 800 miles North of LA in Oregon.

Could you post a picture of one of those weather balloons, so we can compare it to the picture?
What you are seeing in the photo is not real. It is heavily airbrushed.

[Psiload]

I've only revently seen a History Channel summery of the event.

WHat do you mean the photo doesn't 'show' anything. The photograph WAS front page news, and clearly shows several lightes focused an a U.F.O...

2 things stick out in my head, the photograph and the fact that our military expended several thousand rounds above a civilian area, that suffered damages.


If you had taken the time to do some actual research, rather than blasting away with your confabulation cannon and jumping to your usual ET UFO ZOMGIES! conclusions, you would have discovered the following:

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/29/local/me-then29/2

Sirens wailed for an hour and 1,430 shells were fired at the supposed intruder. Five people died -- three in car crashes and two of heart attacks -- and scores were injured during the blackout. Some homes, cars and streets were damaged by shrapnel in the so-called Battle of Los Angeles.


I'm not even going to bother to ask you where you got your "tens of thousands of rounds", later revised down to "several thousand rounds" information, because I know exactly where you pulled it out of.

And if you had bothered to read the caption under the picture in the LA Times article which you posted, you might have learned something interesting. The "UFOs" you claim are shown in the picture? Yeah, well they are actually IFOs. They're IDed right in the caption under the picture.

"SEEKING OUT OBJECT - Scores of searchlights built a wigwam of
light beams over Los Angeles early yesterday morning during the
alarm. This picture was taken during blackout; shows nine beams
converging on an object in sky in Culver City area.The blobs of light which
show at apex of beam angles were made by anti-aircraft shells."

[King of the Americas]

...

What you are seeing in the photo is not real. It is heavily airbrushed.

The newspaper photograph, in the 1942 publication was airbrushed, and or featured a "balloon" flying at 30,000 feet, whereas the flack and smoke was at a mere 25,000 feet.

That's what you are saying?

So if, when we produce a picture of the weather balloon(s) in question, and they look NOTHING like the image with all the lights pointed toward it, will you then argue that the photograph itself was alter to NOT look like the balloons?

Or is that your argument to start, that a newspaper ran a picture of a balloon, doctered to look like a U.F.O., during a war...?

In summery, you think we shot 1,400 anti-aircraft at balloons that were tracked coming in from the Pacific...?

[Psiload]

The newspaper photograph, in the 1942 publication was airbrushed, and or featured a "balloon" flying at 30,000 feet, whereas the flack and smoke was at a mere 25,000 feet.

That's what you are saying?

So if, when we produce a picture of the weather balloon(s) in question, and they look NOTHING like the image with all the lights pointed toward it, will you then argue that the photograph itself was alter to NOT look like the balloons?

Or is that your argument to start, that a newspaper ran a picture of a balloon, doctered to look like a U.F.O., during a war...?

In summery, you think we shot 1,400 anti-aircraft at balloons that were tracked coming in from the Pacific...?


The LA Times never claimed that the picture showed enemy aircraft, weather balloons, or UFOs.

The caption under the photograph clearly identifies the blobs of light pictured to be bursting AA rounds.

[King of the Americas]

The LA Times never claimed that the picture showed enemy aircraft, weather balloons, or UFOs.

The caption under the photograph clearly identifies the blobs of light pictured to be bursting AA rounds.

Having never seen the original, I don't know what is or isn't in the picture.

At my first glance, it look like a saucer, with a nipple at the top, with smaller blob/lights surrounding it.

I didn't say what the LA Times claimed.

I asked questions.

What was 'tracked', and what were we shooting at?

Was it a balloon, aircraft, or something else/intelligent non-human U.F.O.?

My point in asking is that ALL the evidence points toward there being 'something' that caused the alarm, rather than nothing.

Something, as of yet unknown, caused our military to open fire over civilians, leading to several deaths.

What were the search lights pointing toward?

---

ETA:

http://www.theairraid.com/

Here's an excerpt from an article written for the Daily News by reporter Matt Weinstock. After the war he was talking to man who had served in one of those Army batteries and the gentleman recounted the following story.

"Early in the war things were pretty scary and the Army was setting up coastal defenses. At one of the new radar stations near Santa Monica, the crew tried in vain to arrange for some planes to fly by so that they could test the system. As no one could spare the planes at the time, they hit upon a novel way to test the radar. One of the guys bought a bag of nickel balloons and then filled them with hydrogen, attached metal wires, and let them go. Catching the offshore breeze, the balloons had the desired effect of showing up on the screens, proving the equipment was working. But after traveling a good distance offshore and to the south, the nightly onshore breeze started to push the balloons back towards the coastal cities. The coastal radar's picked up the metal wires and the searchlights swung automatically on the targets, looking on the screens as aircraft heading for the city. The ACK-ACK started firing and the rest was history."

Personally, I think claiming 'wires' being picked up on radar is bullbutter.

[EHocking]

Having never seen the original, I don't know what is or isn't in the picture.Yet asserted that it was a real occurance....:rolleyes:Personally, I think claiming 'wires' being picked up on radar is bullbutter.So as well as being a master stonemason and an expert on comparative religion, are you telling us that you are a qualified radar operator as well?

Or is this yet another of your beliefs disguised as unenlightened assertion?

For reference:
This is the root of the problem.

You have a tendency to accept things told to you or read by you at face value with little critical analysis, and then argue the point here as though the story you've heard or read is "true fact".

You then accuse anyone who disagrees with your "facts" as being ignorant.

[King of the Americas]

Yet asserted that it was a real occurance....:rolleyes:So as well as being a master stonemason and an expert on comparative religion, are you telling us that you are a qualified radar operator as well?

Or is this yet another of your beliefs disguised as unenlightened assertion?

For reference:

I stated that 'something' caused the event.

I am a novice lapidarian, and an amateur granite letterer.

I have not studied any one religion with any real zeal. I have however, seen and heard of many similarities, when I speak to those of different religions and backgrounds, when it comes to their belief in 'heavenly agents of god'...

This is what I know about radar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_cross-section

...now, that is.

[aggle-rithm]

Having never seen the original, I don't know what is or isn't in the picture.

At my first glance, it look like a saucer, with a nipple at the top, with smaller blob/lights surrounding it.

I didn't say what the LA Times claimed.

I asked questions.

What was 'tracked', and what were we shooting at?

Was it a balloon, aircraft, or something else/intelligent non-human U.F.O.?

My point in asking is that ALL the evidence points toward there being 'something' that caused the alarm, rather than nothing.

Something, as of yet unknown, caused our military to open fire over civilians, leading to several deaths.

What were the search lights pointing toward?



Well, if you feel that it MUST be an extraordinary explanation, then assuming that explanation is "heavenly agents" or ET's or whatever you want to call it is completely arbitrary.

As long as we're positing strange things with no basis in reality, why not say that it's an undiscovered species of whale that lives in the upper atmosphere?

In fact, I'm going to assume, for the sake of argument, that all these sightings were, in fact, strato-whales.

You're welcome to prove me wrong.

[King of the Americas]

Well, if you feel that it MUST be an extraordinary explanation, then assuming that explanation is "heavenly agents" or ET's or whatever you want to call it is completely arbitrary.

As long as we're positing strange things with no basis in reality, why not say that it's an undiscovered species of whale that lives in the upper atmosphere?

In fact, I'm going to assume, for the sake of argument, that all these sightings were, in fact, strato-whales.

You're welcome to prove me wrong.

You can call them flying purple people eaters, but that won't mean they answer when called...

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THE AIR:

-Over L.A. in 1942
-Over D.C. in 1952

I only know that it was 'something', advanced and non-human.

[JoeTheJuggler]

You can call them flying purple people eaters, but that won't mean they answer when called...

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THE AIR:

-Over L.A. in 1942
-Over D.C. in 1952

I only know that it was 'something', advanced and non-human.

You are confusing "know" with "believe".

[King of the Americas]

You are confusing "know" with "believe".

We KNOW that our jets and anti-aircraft fire didn't do much against them...

[GeeMack]

Well, if you feel that it MUST be an extraordinary explanation, then assuming that explanation is "heavenly agents" or ET's or whatever you want to call it is completely arbitrary.

As long as we're positing strange things with no basis in reality, why not say that it's an undiscovered species of whale that lives in the upper atmosphere?

In fact, I'm going to assume, for the sake of argument, that all these sightings were, in fact, strato-whales.

You're welcome to prove me wrong.


I always wonder why UFOlien believers are so closed minded. If their accepted explanation is something that has never been shown to exist and which can't be supported with anything other than pleas to their own incredulity, why stop with aliens? It could be anything for which there is an equal amount of, or more accurately, an equal lack of evidence.

I ask my pal, a believer in outer-spacelings, if sightings might be some extra-dimensional intelligent pigs beaming visions directly into the brains of the "witnesses" as a simple practical joke on those individuals. My pal says that's silly. I ask him if there's more evidence to support his idea, the notion that they're some kind of craft being piloted by an advanced technology. He says, "No, but..."

But what? Come on, guys. Be open minded. Be creative! :D

[King of the Americas]

...

... Be open minded. Be creative! :D

"How much stone can you move in an hour, and what techniques do you employ?"

[Sean84]

We KNOW that our jets and anti-aircraft fire didn't do much against them...

All of our most advanced weaponry is pretty useless when there's nothing to shoot at.

Since you don't know what was in the air it might as well have been nothing. No amount of wanting to believe it was super advanced alien whosawhatsits will make it so or magically become evidence of that.

Now if you'll excuse me, there are some squirrels in my backyard that demand the howitzer.

[Correa Neto]

We KNOW that our jets and anti-aircraft fire didn't do much against them...
Jets?
In LA Battle?

As for the AAA, what part of the maximum range x baloon altitude you are having problems understanding?

And what if I posted a picture of searchlights very similar to that one from the LA battle?
Would you be convinced the picture shown by UFOlogists as evidence shows nothing but the beams on clouds?

Heck, I can show you pics of a huge mothership floating within the clouds of Rio de Janeiro night sky...

[RoboTimbo]

Heck, I can show you pics of a huge mothership floating within the clouds of Rio de Janeiro night sky...

If you were to post that picture today, tomorrow KotA would remember having gone to Rio de Janeiro himself to take the picture.

You know what his memory is like.


Note: the preceeding was gentle mockery.

[EHocking]

I stated that 'something' caused the event.No. You defended a story that you incredulously believe, even after being shown that it was merely a story.

To whit;
...The photograph WAS front page news, and clearly shows several lightes focused an a U.F.O...

I am a novice lapidarian, and an amateur granite letterer.Besides the fact that I was being sarcastic, don't try to over egg your expertise, since we have better memories than yourself;
...I've only worked stone at two points in my life, in high school I used a forged steel chisel to split several hundred concrete patio stones. ...And in the past year or so, I've been lettering a piece of granite...

...Oh, and I've carved several figures out of white marble with a drumel tool.There's that memory of yours and your fine grasp of fact tripping you up again. Only worked stone twice in your life, and gave three examples of doing so....I have not studied any one religion with any real zeal. I have however, seen and heard of many similarities, when I speak to those of different religions and backgrounds, when it comes to their belief in 'heavenly agents of god'...Of course you have.:rolleyes:This is what I know about radar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_cross-section

...now, that is.But still asserted that anomalous radar signals are proof of aliens over Washington - even though you know nothing about radar. I suggest you widen your education from merely Wiki, but if you must, at start at first principles with Radar

[aggle-rithm]

I always wonder why UFOlien believers are so closed minded. If their accepted explanation is something that has never been shown to exist and which can't be supported with anything other than pleas to their own incredulity, why stop with aliens? It could be anything for which there is an equal amount of, or more accurately, an equal lack of evidence.

I ask my pal, a believer in outer-spacelings, if sightings might be some extra-dimensional intelligent pigs beaming visions directly into the brains of the "witnesses" as a simple practical joke on those individuals. My pal says that's silly. I ask him if there's more evidence to support his idea, the notion that they're some kind of craft being piloted by an advanced technology. He says, "No, but..."

But what? Come on, guys. Be open minded. Be creative! :D

Exactly what I was thinking. There is no attribute of Heavenly Agents that I can't just as easily find an explanation for in strato-whales.

All the ancient stories about gods? The exhaust of strato-whales stimiluates a very specific part of the brain and causes god-like hallucinations.

Impervious to anti-aircraft fire? Strato-whales are tough.

Flying in a way that defies the laws of physics? That's just how strato-whales roll.

It doesn't matter what the argument is. "But how do you explain...?" can always be answered by revealing yet another magical property of strato-whales.

[aggle-rithm]

I only know that it was 'something', advanced and non-human.

How do you know it was advanced?

Strato-whales aren't advanced. They are actually quite primitive (I've just decided). They can simply do things that humans can't.

Think of the starfish. Chop it into little pieces, and each piece grows into a new starfish.

Try that with, say, an amateur granite letterer. Makes a big mess, and no new granite letterers emerge.

Does that mean the starfish is more advanced?

[Stray Cat]

The newspaper photograph, in the 1942 publication was airbrushed, and or featured a "balloon" flying at 30,000 feet, whereas the flack and smoke was at a mere 25,000 feet.

That's what you are saying?
No, what I'm saying is that as there no record of what the photograph actually shows and there are quite obvious signs of it being heavily airbrushed, there is no way of knowing what it shows, or when it was taken. It may for all we know have been taken during the opening night of one of Hollywood's film premieres. It could well show the movie stars arriving at the Chinese Theater in the Goodyear Blimp and the AA fire could be added on top of the search light beam enhancements. There are so many other things it could be that are more likely than aliens in space ships.

So if, when we produce a picture of the weather balloon(s) in question, and they look NOTHING like the image with all the lights pointed toward it, will you then argue that the photograph itself was alter to NOT look like the balloons?
Why not set yourself the task of doing some real research and tracking down the original photographer and seeing if you can obtain the original unaltered negative and then we can talk about the photograph.

Or is that your argument to start, that a newspaper ran a picture of a balloon, doctered to look like a U.F.O., during a war...?
No, my argument is that you nor I know what has been doctored on that photograph and so there's no point speculating about it in order to support our pet theories. Personally I would go with the possibility that the photo originally showed a few very faint beams of light and a quite bright disc where the searchlight hit a cloud layer, but without the original unaltered photo, I wouldn't want to build a case on that speculation.

In summery, you think we shot 1,400 anti-aircraft at balloons that were tracked coming in from the Pacific...?
No.

[King of the Americas]

All of our most advanced weaponry is pretty useless when there's nothing to shoot at.

Since you don't know what was in the air it might as well have been nothing. No amount of wanting to believe it was super advanced alien whosawhatsits will make it so or magically become evidence of that.

Now if you'll excuse me, there are some squirrels in my backyard that demand the howitzer.

You are ignoring the jets' inability to catch the "D.C." U.F.O.'s...I never said anything about jets over L.A.

[bruto]

We KNOW that our jets and anti-aircraft fire didn't do much against them... "I shot into the air and nothing happened" is at best a very very weak argument for the thing you shot at being substantial! I don't know whether there's a fallacy named for Martin Luther's inkpot, but this is its equivalent. Spoiler for those whose religious education might be lacking.... Martin Luther is said once to have reported seeing the devil in his study. He threw his inkpot at him. When later questioned about the reality of his vision, he said it was proven by the inkstain on his wall.

[Pure Argent]

We KNOW that our jets and anti-aircraft fire didn't do much against them...

aUdB8gCMcXI

[Correa Neto]

If you were to post that picture today, tomorrow KotA would remember having gone to Rio de Janeiro himself to take the picture.

You know what his memory is like.


Note: the preceeding was gentle mockery.
Oh, well, its possible. But its also possible that someone will look at the pics and say "****! How foolish I was! Those were just spotlights and not an alien spacecraft!"

So, I present you The Battle of Rio de Janeiro!
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d150/AVCN/battleofRJ.jpg

And now, behold one of the humongous Mother ship I photographed!
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d150/AVCN/221.jpg

See? I can summon the aliens. No need for a moment upwards, or world peace initiative. Just send me money.

Of course, UFO creduloids may claim the LA Battle pic shows no UFO but they were actually there. Or maybe pull a Rramjet and lie, saying I adultered the pictures without ever caring to back the claim. Copies of the original files are available for whoever wants to check for photoshopping or Lightwaving.

To conform to Rule 10 re: the auto-censor.

[Psiload]

You can call them flying purple people eaters, but that won't mean they answer when called...

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THE AIR:

-Over L.A. in 1942
-Over D.C. in 1952

I only know that it was 'something', advanced and non-human.

Something = Pterodactyls. Advanced Pterodactyls.

Believe!

[aggle-rithm]

This morning when I was driving to work, I saw fireworks off in the distance.

"Fireworks?" I thought. "At 6:00 AM?"

I tried to look closer, but the fireworks disappeared. Then I saw a flicker of light in the same vicinity.

Only as I got within a hundred feet or so did I realize I was looking at a "marquis" message board, one that flashes programmable messages such as "lane closed ahead" or "Amber alert". It was dark and almost invisible against the sky behind it. What I had seen was reflections from car lights, made sparkly by the texture of the board.

It made me realize that no matter how many ways I can think of for the eye to be tricked into seeing something in the sky that isn't there, there are probably hundreds more that I hadn't thought of.

[aggle-rithm]

You are ignoring the jets' inability to catch the "D.C." U.F.O.'s...I never said anything about jets over L.A.

Jets can't catch strato-whales.

[King of the Americas]

Ah. I see you went back and reread the OP.

Psiload just posted that The Olympic Committee just added "a moment skyward" to the Opening Ceremonies, due to Dr. Michio Kaku's suggestion...

I have not confirmed this.

Personally, I couldn't be happier about this, or being in the same mindset as the good Dr.

I feel a little honored that I was on the right track.

SUCK IT SKEPTICS!

Well, you can suck it, as soon as I verify this is actually true.

[P.J. Denyer]

Alien 1: "Commander, these humans have been obsessing over finding life on another planet for over a century of their time now, they are constantly creating new stories of elaborate scenarios imagining us, while sending signals pleading for other species to communicate with them, even going so far as to send invitations into space within probes. We see them on the internet, bickering over the truth of our existence. Should we not say hello, sir?"

Alien 2: "No, lieutenant. You see, there are very specific protocols in place. They must accept on pretty much faith alone by looking at dozens of events in their history that we exist and are waiting for them to formally ask us in a large group to make contact. There are rules you know. The dots must be connected by those few insightful individuals willing to do so, who then must convince the rest of them to trust in these insights. And they must all ask us at the same time."

Alien 1: "Oh. I hope they make another Star Trek movie. "


You mean Julien May got it right all along. Cool, do we get psychic powers too? That would be cool!

[Psiload]

Psiload just posted that The Olympic Committee just added "a moment skyward" to the Opening Ceremonies, due to Dr. Michio Kaku's suggestion...

I have not confirmed this.

Personally, I couldn't be happier about this, or being in the same mindset as the good Dr.

I feel a little honored that I was on the right track.

SUCK IT SKEPTICS!

Well, you can suck it, as soon as I verify this is actually true.


I was joking.

Joke noun.

1. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.
2. A mischievous trick; a prank.
3. An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.
4. Informal
a. Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke.
b. An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office.

[P.J. Denyer]

I was joking.

And even if you hadn't been, KOTAS might have wanted to save the gloating until we'd seen if his alien gods actually put in an appearance on the day.

[Waterman]

And yet this silly request received serious responses. So the OP wants us to speculate how to entice an assumed non-human intelligent race that lives in the near proximity of earth to reveal themselves to us. Unfortunately they have hidden themselves so well that we only have fleeting glimpses of them and know nothing about their nature or motivations. I am still reading this thread sorry if this is currently irrelevant.

IF we assume that they are grooming us for fodder and DNA source material I would think that like attracting bird to land, or a raccoon to visit your porch you might place out a big bowl of food out in plain sight perhaps shine lights on it. Any large sporting event could also be applicable.

IF we assume that they are really super intelligent and are looking for peers not subjects. It would also be reasonable to also think that they will see through our clumsy attempts at appeasement and see us as the backwards race we are and not worthy of revelation yet. Perhaps they will reveal themselves once they have determined we have advanced far enough mentally. The appeasement / adoration you imply would clearly indicate to them that we are not ready.

IF we assume that they are a bunch of joy riding hot rods that get a kick out of coming down every now and them to buzz some small group out in the middle of nowhere. Then there is probably nothing we can due to entice them, they get their kicks out of being mysterious and don’t want the spot light. If they did they would have already taken center stage somewhere. The World Cup Finals would have been an excellent opportunity. As pointed out if they did descend it would turn ANY event into a major event and all eyes would be turned in that direction.

IF we assume that they are waiting for us to reach some sort of mental level that has abandoned superstition and that their revelation will not cause worldwide panic. I would imagine that they would be waiting for a large majority of us to adopt a scientific mindset instead of a superstitious one. The best way to get them to descend would be to have the majority of the world to abandon religions and convert all the Houses of Worship into sometime more useful like parking lots, brothels or play grounds.

IF we assume that they are allergic to or find poisonous the trace byproducts of the burning of fossil fuels then they will not descend until we move completely to alternate energy methods and then atmosphere had been cleansed through natural processes.

IF we assume that they are out there and want to deal with humans on a business level perhaps they are already doing that. But they know that by revealing themselves they will cause significant damage to the economy and cause significant instability in the political realm. This would not be a problem is the majority of the world was largely under the sway of say a large corporation or a one world government. They are waiting on the New World Order or Wal-Mart to come to power so they only have to negotiate one treaty instead of hundreds.

IF we assume that they have developed sensory organs that can detect the radio frequency range they will probably not descend until we abandon that technology or they develop filters that do not affect their ability to communicate.

IF we assume that they find the odor of concrete or asphalt offensive that would explain why they never actually land in cities or populated areas. To get them to descend we would need to tear down all the concrete structures and rip up all the asphalt and find alternate construction methods and materials.

IF we assume that they really don’t care what we do or think and are nothing more than lab animals or pets, I think that anything that we do would solicit no more than a note in a technicians log book or an ‘isn’t that cute’ from a more kind hearted individual… if they have hearts…

If we assume that they actually feed off the psychic energy generated by emotional turmoil the best way to get them to descend would be to establish world peace. This would cause them to starve and force them out. However if this is the case they would probably do something to destabilize the Peace that has been established by setting themselves of as the enemy that we can’t reach. Perhaps they would operate covertly with targeted assassinations turning body guards on their charges when they appear too reasonable, initiate riots to destabilize governments, plant evidence of WMDs to instigate wars, fund fundamentalist organizations of all stripes to keep us at odds with each other and destroy our common round, call in to talk radio shows…

Whee that was fun.

Well that would largely depend on three factors:

1. Why did they remove themselves from the surface?

2. Why have they chosen not to reveal themselves publicly before?

3. What is it they want from us ultimately?

At this time the evidence is tenuous regarding thier existance but we have granted that for the sake of discussion. Once we have established some real information not just speculation about at least one of the factors above perhaps we might stand a chance of coming up with a reasonable plan.

If we are just playing pretend we can have some fun with lots of plausible things that answer the question. However if you want to make this an actionalable plan then please provide for the board the data (not just speculation) you have regarding how you have arrived at an answer to the questions above.

Thanks Carlitos I was about to go back and dig this up.

I actually did try to play the game you told us you wanted to play and was essentially dismissed because none of my ideas conformed to the one you already had in mind. Please let me know why these ideas on the methods that could be employed to get them to descend will not work? Or why your method is any more reasonable? So far it appears that you are implying that they have some sort of Victorian Era style protocol for requiring ‘formal’ invitations and that they will be obligated to respond in some manner. Isn’t that a bit of selective anthropomorphizing? On what do you base this line of reasoning, other than you own sense of propriety?

[King of the Americas]

I was joking.

Removed personal comments

That is like giving someone a fake lottery ticket...

:(

[King of the Americas]

And even if you hadn't been, KOTAS might have wanted to save the gloating until we'd seen if his alien gods actually put in an appearance on the day.

I just want the 'opportunity' for such an event to occur, regardless of who or what gets the credit.

[EHocking]

You SUCK.

That is like giving someone a fake lottery ticket...

:(
As I noted somewhat earlier on this thread.

This is the root of the problem.

You have a tendency to accept things told to you or read by you at face value with little critical analysis, and then argue the point here as though the story you've heard or read is "true fact".

You then accuse anyone who disagrees with your "facts" as being ignorant.

[P.J. Denyer]

So the remake of 'V' should have gone-:

Exterior L.A. Present day

A giant spaceship appears in the sky, on the ground no one looks up or takes any notice.

Cut to

London, as above, giant spaceship, oblivious population

New York

Hong Kong

Paris

Tokyo

Interior Bad CGI Spaceship Control Room

Anna/Diana: "Bugger, no-one was looking up. Let's go invade somewhere else!"

THE END



(If the Sci-Fi Channel are reading this I'm avaliable for writting work!:D)

[dafydd]

Psiload just posted that The Olympic Committee just added "a moment skyward" to the Opening Ceremonies, due to Dr. Michio Kaku's suggestion...

I have not confirmed this.

Personally, I couldn't be happier about this, or being in the same mindset as the good Dr.

I feel a little honored that I was on the right track.

SUCK IT SKEPTICS!

Well, you can suck it, as soon as I verify this is actually true.

ROTFLMAO. You will believe anything,wont you?

[dafydd]

You SUCK.

That is like giving someone a fake lottery ticket...

:(

I own this tower in Paris that I would like to sell to you.

[RoboTimbo]

So, lets pretend...
You SUCK.

That is like giving someone a fake lottery ticket...

:(

You really take your pretending seriously, don't you.

[Psiload]

You SUCK.

That is like giving someone a fake lottery ticket...

:(

Wow.

I was just going for the cheap and obvious(or so I thought) stolen thunder joke. Thank you for running with it and taking to a whole other level of hilarity.

[dafydd]

Wow.

I was just going for the cheap and obvious(or so I thought) stolen thunder joke. Thank you for running with it and taking to a whole other level of hilarity.

This gets better and better.

[King of the Americas]

I DID say I hadn't confirmed anything.

Why should I be held responsible for someone else's joke/lie?

[dafydd]

I DID say I hadn't confirmed anything.

Why should I be held responsible for someone else's joke/lie?

And we are not responsible for your joke/lie. All square,shall we leave it at that?

[carlitos]

So, lets pretend for a moment that all the anecdotes ARE accurate, that history IS a depiction of gods descending from the heavens, and that this is what people are seeing when they witness a U.F.O. The debate is over they exist.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/1988bjhamilton.html

In October of 1988, I had an experience with some creatures I called "blue robots." They were living, sentient beings, wearing blue overalls even, but their movements were robotic in nature, and I was under the impression they were acting under orders, doing what they had been told by someone else. I went along with what they wished, knowing what was expected of me without the use of speech. I had total freedom of movement.
I was inside a circular metal room, about 20 feet in diameter, aboard what seemed to be a spaceship. I stood still and watched while the little blue robots swarmed all around me, only as tall as my waist. There were approximately six beings in my immediate vicinity and others running errands in other parts of the room. They were communicating with one another and very busily running back and forth, doing their work, which somehow involved me.

I knew they wanted to "operate" on me, and even though I couldn't be sure, I assumed it would be an easy, outpatient type of procedure. I had picked up this bit of information by listening and observing. I remained calm and patient, more curious than afraid.

...

I then realized that the hole being drilled was not into the back of a television set, but into the back of my head! Within the week, I had developed a lump in the same location on the back of my head. I went to a local doctor (a general practitioner) who said I had a cyst that could be removed with surgery, or I could just let it sit there and, if it bothered me, he could prescribe pain medication.

I let the cyst sit there for about 15 years--in 2003, I had a doctor remove it. It appeared to be a mass of fatty tissue (what a benign, sebaceous cyst would normally look like).

Why did the gods drill into Ms. Hamilton's head? What did they place there other than fatty tissue?

http://www.ufocasebook.com/1985strieber.html

Whitley Strieber is one of the most well known UFO researchers in the area of alien abduction, and alien implants. His well known book, "Communion" is a UFO classic. It was also made into a movie by the same name.

...
He was soon shocked to see a creature in his bedroom.

...
He recalled that he had been "floated" out of his bedroom and into a waiting UFO. He would see four different types of alien beings, one a small, robot type of being, secondly, a short, stocky type, the third was very slender and weak looking.

It had mesmerising black eyes that slanted, and the last being had black, button eyes.

He was subjected to medical testing by these aliens. One of these was the insertion of a needle into his brain, and another involved an object being inserted into his rectum.

Why did the gods anally probe Mr. Streiber?

[aggle-rithm]

I DID say I hadn't confirmed anything.

Why should I be held responsible for someone else's joke/lie?

Well, let's see:

Psiload just posted that The Olympic Committee just added "a moment skyward" to the Opening Ceremonies, due to Dr. Michio Kaku's suggestion...

I have not confirmed this.

Personally, I couldn't be happier about this, or being in the same mindset as the good Dr.

I feel a little honored that I was on the right track.

SUCK IT SKEPTICS!

Well, you can suck it, as soon as I verify this is actually true.

So, you did say it wasn't confirmed, then you clearly behaved as if you believed it were true. You then paid lip-service to verification, but didn't say you were going to verify whether it was true, but that it was true.

[King of the Americas]

Well, let's see:



So, you did say it wasn't confirmed, then you clearly behaved as if you believed it were true. You then paid lip-service to verification, but didn't say you were going to verify whether it was true, but that it was true.

If you got lip service from your girlfriend, you'd consider yourself served wouldn't you?

[King of the Americas]

And we are not responsible for your joke/lie. All square,shall we leave it at that?

What joke or lie would that be?

[dafydd]

What joke or lie would that be?

The gods descending from the skies,as if you didn't know.

[TheGoldcountry]

KotA, did you finally give up after Psiload defecated on your dream? I loved this thread. I'll miss it.

[aggle-rithm]

If you got lip service from your girlfriend, you'd consider yourself served wouldn't you?

And you say you're NOT a troll?

[King of the Americas]

KotA, did you finally give up after Psiload defecated on your dream? I loved this thread. I'll miss it.

Give up? Because someone said that a famous scientist already accomplished my goal?

Not hardly. One could best describe me as being "stubbornly dedicated" to whatever goal I set my mind to...

[King of the Americas]

And you say you're NOT a troll?

Is it trollish to be funny, now?

[dafydd]

Is it trollish to be funny, now?

No. When are you going to be funny?

[dafydd]

Give up? Because someone said that a famous scientist already accomplished my goal?

Not hardly. One could best describe me as being "stubbornly dedicated" to whatever goal I set my mind to...

Will you join us in our Moment Treeward?

[aggle-rithm]

Is it trollish to be funny, now?

A while ago you were complaining that no one was taking the discussion seriously.

Then you asked why you should be held responsible for someone else's joke.

I explained why, in all seriousness.

You replied with what you apparently consider to be a joke.

Ergo: Troll.

[EHocking]

Give up? Because someone said that a famous scientist already accomplished my goal?Can you still not tell the difference between fact and fiction. No famous scientist accomplished your goal - it was a joke.Not hardly. One could best describe me as being "stubbornly dedicated" to whatever goal I set my mind to...Yet you do so only by ignoring advice that would save you a great deal of angst.

To Whit:
Even if it isn't laughed at and rejected out of hand, it will be rejected merely by referring to the Olympic Charter (http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Olympic%20Charter/Charter_en_2010.pdf).

5. Any form of discrimination with regard to a country or a person on grounds of race, religion, politics, gender or otherwise is incompatible with belonging to the Olympic Movement..

Referring to a god or gods in a heaven or heavens is discriminatory, not just to many religious beliefs, but also to agnostic and atheist athletes as well as secular nations.

It is doomed to failure, and not just because of its initial stupidity.

[King of the Americas]

And you say you're NOT a troll?

That's RIGHT. 'I' am NOT a troll.

You on the other hand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Calling someone a troll, when they are trying to have a meaningful exchange could well be considered trolling.

I couldn't count the times people have "trolled" this thread.

I am simply not one to attempt to disrupt other people's serious exchanges, or draw people into emotional responses.

Is there another skeptic-version of trolling I don't know about?

[King of the Americas]

...

To Whit:
[/SIZE]

Now that "Olympic Charter" thing is new to me... Sorry I missed it.

That is a real obstacle to what I'd like to see happen.

[King of the Americas]

Will you join us in our Moment Treeward?

No thanks, but I'd invite you to START YOUR OWN THREAD, AND GET OUT OF MINE WITH THIS GARBAGE!

[King of the Americas]

http://www.ufocasebook.com/1988bjhamilton.html



Why did the gods drill into Ms. Hamilton's head? What did they place there other than fatty tissue?

http://www.ufocasebook.com/1985strieber.html



Why did the gods anally probe Mr. Streiber?

I have no answers for you, and as your questions have little to do with the OP...

I think you are a troll, trolling.

[carlitos]

I have no answers for you, and as your questions have little to do with the OP...



So, lets pretend for a moment that all the anecdotes ARE accurate, that history IS a depiction of gods descending from the heavens, and that this is what people are seeing when they witness a U.F.O. The debate is over they exist.

The question is how do we make contact, or otherwise 'invite' them back, so we can all meet face to face?




He was subjected to medical testing by these aliens. One of these was the insertion of a needle into his brain, and another involved an object being inserted into his rectum
Is the OP false or is your latest protestation false? Your gods anally probed a dude. It's one of the anecdotes, therefore it's true. That's what you said.

[bruto]

Now that "Olympic Charter" thing is new to me... Sorry I missed it.

That is a real obstacle to what I'd like to see happen.

Now some of us (dare I say who?) might think that a person who proposed a mass demonstration at the Olympic opening ceremony, but was unaware of the Olympic Charter, is lacking in organizational and cognitive skills. Oh, perish the thought!

[King of the Americas]

Is the OP false or is your latest protestation false? Your gods anally probed a dude. It's one of the anecdotes, therefore it's true. That's what you said.

The original wording of the OP has been 'amended'...

Or haven't you been following along?

[King of the Americas]

Now some of us (dare I say who?) might think that a person who proposed a mass demonstration at the Olympic opening ceremony, but was unaware of the Olympic Charter, is lacking in organizational and cognitive skills. Oh, perish the thought!

This is the first time I've seen that.

I was able to read it, once I saw it, and I don't know what organization has anything to do with it?

[dafydd]

Now that "Olympic Charter" thing is new to me... Sorry I missed it.

That is a real obstacle to what I'd like to see happen.

It's only been going since 1896,no wonder you missed it.

[Stray Cat]

This is the first time I've seen that.

I was able to read it, once I saw it, and I don't know what organization has anything to do with it?

It's OK KotA, if we're pretending that "they" are real, then it's no longer a religious matter. If God were to be scientifically proven he would no longer be a God really. So if we are pretending that "they" really exist, then we can also pretend that the Olympic committee would have no problem acknowledging them any more than they would sending an invitation to Obama to attend the opening ceremony.

Now getting the Olympic Committee to join in with your pretence... that's the hurdle that's going to be hardest to get across.

[dafydd]

No thanks, but I'd invite you to START YOUR OWN THREAD, AND GET OUT OF MINE WITH THIS GARBAGE!

And your Moment Skyward makes perfect sense! This is a public forum,you have no say as to who joins in.

[carlitos]

The original wording of the OP has been 'amended'...

Or haven't you been following along?

Nope. I'm still posting in this thread, with the opening post that starts "So, lets pretend for a moment that all the anecdotes ARE accurate, that history IS a depiction of gods descending from the heavens, and that this is what people are seeing when they witness a U.F.O. The debate is over they exist."

My question is - when the anecdotes involve anal probes, why would I invite these guys down to the Olympics? Could we get KY to sponsor it?

[dafydd]

Nope. I'm still posting in this thread, with the opening post that starts "So, lets pretend for a moment that all the anecdotes ARE accurate, that history IS a depiction of gods descending from the heavens, and that this is what people are seeing when they witness a U.F.O. The debate is over they exist."

My question is - when the anecdotes involve anal probes, why would I invite these guys down to the Olympics? Could we get KY to sponsor it?

They could land at a gay sauna.

[bruto]

This is the first time I've seen that.

I was able to read it, once I saw it, and I don't know what organization has anything to do with it?My point precisely. Here you are eagerly promoting a scheme in which a portion of the Olympic opening ceremony would be given over to an action of your specification, but it seems you omitted to do even the most basic sort of research, such as finding out how the Olympics are run, and by whom.

[carlitos]

This same level of careful thought and planning went into the World Peace Initiative (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=136827).

[dafydd]

This same level of careful thought and planning went into the World Peace Initiative (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=136827).

I missed that one,thanks. Top class entertainment.

[King of the Americas]

...

Now getting the Olympic Committee to join in with your pretence... that's the hurdle that's going to be hardest to get across.

Agreed.

[aggle-rithm]

Calling someone a troll, when they are trying to have a meaningful exchange could well be considered trolling.


OK...so you're idea of a meaningful exchange is:

If you got lip service from your girlfriend, you'd consider yourself served wouldn't you?

[dafydd]

It's OK KotA,

Now getting the Olympic Committee to join in with your pretence... that's the hurdle that's going to be hardest impossible to get across.

ftfy

[King of the Americas]

OK...so you're idea of a meaningful exchange is:

No that's a joke...

[dafydd]

No that's a joke...

Thank you for pointing that out. Laugh,I thought I would never start. Stick to your fantasy,that is funny enough. (Intentional) humour is not your forte.

[Stray Cat]

ftfy
It would certainly be intersting to point out to the Olympic Committee that on those very rare occasions that the Brits win any medals, they are encouraged to sing "God save the Queen" at the medal ceremony. Surely that's also breaching the non religious policy... In pretend world. ;)

I suppose "Non human entities with advanced technology save the Queen" wouldn't scan quite so well.

[dafydd]

It would certainly be intersting to point out to the Olympic Committee that on those very rare occasions that the Brits win any medals, they are encouraged to sing "God save the Queen" at the medal ceremony. Surely that's also breaching the non religious policy... In pretend world. ;)

I suppose "Non human entities with advanced technology save the Queen" wouldn't scan quite so well.

We could make a rap number out of it.

[Correa Neto]

No. "In this thread we pretend all anecdotes about them are true".

David Icke says the queen is one of 'them'. This also means 'they' already landed and are in control.
A moment skywards, WPI, SETI, they are all pointless. How would you like to be served?

I proclaim victory at this thread.

[dafydd]

No. "In this thread we pretend all anecdotes about them are true".

David Icke says the queen is one of 'them'. This also means 'they' already landed and are in control.
A moment skywards, WPI, SETI, they are all pointless. How would you like to be served?

I proclaim victory at this thread.

It's true. The game of let's pretend is over.

[dafydd]

Will you join us in welcoming our Reptilian overlords,Kota? I would if I were you,they can get pretty shirty.

[Stray Cat]

We could make a rap number out of it.
I was thinking maybe hip hop but of course in the UK we would prefer Chip Shop.

[dafydd]

I was thinking maybe hip hop but of course in the UK we would prefer Chip Shop.

No Salsa?

[Stray Cat]

No. "In this thread we pretend all anecdotes about them are true".

David Icke says the queen is one of 'them'. This also means 'they' already landed and are in control.
A moment skywards, WPI, SETI, they are all pointless. How would you like to be served?
Indeed, I hadn't thought of that one. :)

Surely if "they" were already here and we started looking skywards for someone to land, then that would upset the one's who were already here because they would see it as us wanting someone to come and save us from the one's who are already here... That could lead to a diplomatic incident of truly universal proportions... :jaw-dropp

[dafydd]

Indeed, I hadn't thought of that one. :)

Surely if "they" were already here and we started looking skywards for someone to land, then that would upset the one's who were already here because they would see it as us wanting someone to come and save us from the one's who are already here... That could lead to a diplomatic incident of truly universal proportions... :jaw-dropp

We would have to call in the Federation to sort that one out,maybe even the Inter Galactic Council Of Super Advanced Beings And Allied Stoneworkers.

[Jeff Corey]

Why did the gods anally probe Mr. Streiber?

They were the proctologists from Procyon.

[Sean84]

This whole looking up business is clearly just a front to pull off the world's largest pick-pocketing scam.

What other explanation could there be? That someone actually believes that looking up will cause aliens to come down and wrassle our greasiest Hungarian?

It's too absurd to even consider but it's so crazy that it just might work.

[dafydd]

This whole looking up business is clearly just a front to pull off the world's largest pick-pocketing scam.

What other explanation could there be? That someone actually believes that looking up will cause aliens to come down and wrassle our greasiest Hungarian?

It's too absurd to even consider but it's so crazy that it just might work.

The pick pocketing scheme might work but you can bet your life that the super duper gods will not descend.

[dafydd]

They were the proctologists from Procyon.

On the bum again,no doubt.

[aggle-rithm]

Indeed, I hadn't thought of that one. :)

Surely if "they" were already here and we started looking skywards for someone to land, then that would upset the one's who were already here because they would see it as us wanting someone to come and save us from the one's who are already here... That could lead to a diplomatic incident of truly universal proportions... :jaw-dropp

...and that's where thunder and lightning come from. ;)

[dafydd]

...and that's where thunder and lightning come from. ;)

I thought that thunder was the angels moving the furniture about.

[carlitos]

I thought that thunder was the angels moving the furniture about.

If you heard thunder yesterday, on Thor's day, that wasn't angels. God of Thunder was just having a go.

ETA - It's Thonor's Day on your little island, actually.

[dafydd]

If you heard thunder yesterday, on Thor's day, that wasn't angels. God of Thunder was just having a go.

ETA - It's Thonor's Day on your little island, actually.

Belgium's not an island :)

[yodaluver28]

I say that if the elusive heaven-dwellers won't descend today in order to help the Japanese, a moment at the Olympics won't mean anything to them either. And really, if they aren't willing to come down and apply their advanced technology to helping rebuild Japan, rescuing it's people, and neutralizing the nuclear emergency, who needs or wants them around anyway?

[tsig]

They could land at a gay sauna.

With.. a blimp.

[bruto]

I say that if the elusive heaven-dwellers won't descend today in order to help the Japanese, a moment at the Olympics won't mean anything to them either. And really, if they aren't willing to come down and apply their advanced technology to helping rebuild Japan, rescuing it's people, and neutralizing the nuclear emergency, who needs or wants them around anyway?Indeed, I've suggested this before, but KotA continues to resist it. If you take his anecdotes at face value, you'd have to conclude that they're just showoffs. Darting around the sky and allocating enormouse resources to slice up a bunch of rocks for temples. They're as useful to us as Lippizaners at a plow. Space fops and drama queens. Forget the Olympics, have your moment skyward in Paris or Milan. Maybe Dior will hire one.

[carlitos]

Belgium's not an island :)

Sorry - I was referring to Britain; based on name / flag combo I assumed Wales. Remember, no man is an island, but in a bathtub you can be a whole continent!

[Andrew Wiggin]

Our ancient ancestors may have made contact, but we certainly haven't yet.

Our ancient ancestors were smart enough to figure out how to draw down the flying saucers, which we aren't smart enough to do, while simultaneously being stupid enough to need aliens to tell them how to carve stone, which we ('we' apparently not including you, since you said you can't do it even with modern tools) have no problem doing.

[dafydd]

Sorry - I was referring to Britain; based on name / flag combo I assumed Wales. Remember, no man is an island, but in a bathtub you can be a whole continent!

No man is an island,he's a peninsula.

[Rramjet]

Sorry - I was referring to Britain; based on name / flag combo I assumed Wales. Remember, no man is an island, but in a bathtub you can be a whole continent!
...and it seems incontinent ...Wales is not an island either...

[Stray Cat]

Wales is not an island either...
Indeed it's a patch of land attached to the West of England and covers an area about the size of Wales. ;)

[Rramjet]

Indeed it's a patch of land attached to the West of England and covers an area about the size of Wales. ;)
Actually it covers an area precisely the size of Wales... :)

Sorry KoTa but regarding your original question I just cannot see what humans could possibly do that would sufficiently attract the gods (aliens, ETs, whatever term you want to use) to directly contact us. It seems to me that everything that can be tried to attract their attention has already been tried (from human sacrifice to peaceful prayer and the "contactee movement" to murderous warfare and trying to shoot them out of the skies - and even catastrophic natural disasters). Nothing has worked so far. It's all been done. We just have to accept that we have absolutely no power over the gods (if they exist at all - and yes I know, there is plenty of circumstantial evidence for ET - and even for your thesis - ET as god(s) - though that to a lesser extent - but it is all just that: circumstantial and therefore open to misinterpretation). If your thesis is correct, then they may indeed "return" (at least the possibility will always remain), but I just don't see that we can do anything to influence when or if that might be (perhaps if we survive long enough as a technological species to be able to directly threaten them - then perhaps they might "reconsider"? But who really knows...?

[Stray Cat]

Actually it covers an area precisely the size of Wales... :)
Yes, I know, I live quite near by :)

It is an English joke that "an area about the size of Wales" should be made into a recognised measurement as it is often used to describe large areas in the UK media (such as the amount of rain forest cut down on a daily basis).

[Rramjet]

Yes, I know, I live quite near by :)

It is an English joke that "an area about the size of Wales" should be made into a recognised measurement as it is often used to describe large areas in the UK media (such as the amount of rain forest cut down on a daily basis).
I wonder if "about the size of Wales" and "two to three football fields a minute" can be converted into one another... ;)

[carlitos]

Sorry - I was referring to Britain; based on name / flag combo I assumed Wales. Remember, no man is an island, but in a bathtub you can be a whole continent!
...and it seems incontinent ...Wales is not an island either...No ****, sherlock.

[Stray Cat]

I wonder if "about the size of Wales" and "two to three football fields a minute" can be converted into one another... ;)
Maybe, but I think you'd have to convert it by use of "the time it takes to boil an egg" instead of using the more traditional 'minutes' :)

[dafydd]

An English joke. The Welsh are the Irish who couldn't swim.

[23_Tauri]

Maybe, but I think you'd have to convert it by use of "the time it takes to boil an egg" instead of using the more traditional 'minutes' :)
Everyone knows that's three sedate perambulations around the kitchen table.... :p

[dafydd]

Maybe, but I think you'd have to convert it by use of "the time it takes to boil an egg" instead of using the more traditional 'minutes' :)

I asked an old farmer in Wales how far it was to the town. He said;
"Three cigarettes."

[dudalb]

If you heard thunder yesterday, on Thor's day, that wasn't angels. God of Thunder was just having a go.

ETA - It's Thonor's Day on your little island, actually.


The God Of Thunder is just trying to build a little publcity for when his movie opens in May.....

[Rramjet]

Maybe, but I think you'd have to convert it by use of "the time it takes to boil an egg" instead of using the more traditional 'minutes' :)
That would mean that the size of Wales is 1440 times two or three football fields per boiled egg divided by three (because I think it actually takes three minutes to boil an egg)?

[bruto]

That would mean that the size of Wales is 1440 times two or three football fields per boiled egg divided by three (because I think it actually takes three minutes to boil an egg)?A little longer to boil one too hard for copper tools.

[aggle-rithm]

...and it seems incontinent ...Wales is not an island either...

Nor is Rhode.

[EHocking]

Nor is Rhode.Rhodes is though...

[Andrew Wiggin]

Indeed, I hadn't thought of that one. :)

Surely if "they" were already here and we started looking skywards for someone to land, then that would upset the one's who were already here because they would see it as us wanting someone to come and save us from the one's who are already here... That could lead to a diplomatic incident of truly universal proportions... :jaw-dropp

Given I've seen claims that 'they' live underground or under the ocean, perhaps a 'moment dirtward' would be safer. Wouldn't want to piss off the indiginous space aliens by favoring the space aliens from space.

[Andrew Wiggin]

I asked an old farmer in Wales how far it was to the town. He said;
"Three cigarettes."

A little math, of the extremely rough sort, indicates that an area about the size of wales is a square with sides about as long as a crow flies in the time it takes to consecutively boil sixty eggs. Assuming a very motivated crow and soft eggs. Oh, and breakfast will be late this morning, as I'm making the eggs one at a time rather than throwing them all in the pot.

[Correa Neto]

Folks, at post 2356 I have already claimed victory on this thread.

You can continue posting at it, but please stop the mockery and dedicate yourselves only to praise my immense wisdom and marvel on how bright is the light of my knowledge, illuminating your path towards the Truth.

By the way, it was post number 2356.

2+3=5 5+6=11

5+11=16

1+6=7

7 as you should know, is the most mystical number.

I AM YOUR TIMELY TRUTH!

Send money to help my light illuminate the world.

[dafydd]

Nor is Rhode.

Is it red?

[dafydd]

A little math, of the extremely rough sort, indicates that an area about the size of wales is a square with sides about as long as a crow flies in the time it takes to consecutively boil sixty eggs. Assuming a very motivated crow and soft eggs. Oh, and breakfast will be late this morning, as I'm making the eggs one at a time rather than throwing them all in the pot.

And if you coddle the eggs?

[dafydd]

Given I've seen claims that 'they' live underground or under the ocean, perhaps a 'moment dirtward' would be safer. Wouldn't want to piss off the indiginous space aliens by favoring the space aliens from space.

The amount of times I've relieved myself onto the ground. I abase myself before our subterranean overlords.

[EHocking]

And if you coddle the eggs?They'll grow up to be wimps, thus the expression, "soft eggs".

[Andrew Wiggin]

And if you coddle the eggs?

Never coddle the eggs. Wales gets smaller if you do anything to make the eggs cook faster.

[Andrew Wiggin]

Grrr. I was thinking of poached eggs; it looks like coddled eggs actually take longer since they have to cook slowly, so either I find a less motivated crow or Wales would be larger. Now I'll have a lot of angry welch after me as their land randomly changes size.

[RoboTimbo]

Something seems to be missing from this thread.

[Crossbow]

Something seems to be missing from this thread.

I noticed that too!

Has 'KoA' abandonded support of his ET buddies?

After all, if they visited planet Earth again, then maybe they would vote for him in the next election and KoA could get slightly more than the eleven votes that he got the last time he ran for office.

;)

[Stray Cat]

Now I'll have a lot of angry welch after me as their land randomly changes size.
And if the size of Wales is not constant, how the heck are the Brazilians supposed to know how much rain forest to cut down every day?

[EHocking]

Something seems to be missing from this thread.bacon?

[tsig]

Grrr. I was thinking of poached eggs; it looks like coddled eggs actually take longer since they have to cook slowly, so either I find a less motivated crow or Wales would be larger. Now I'll have a lot of angry welch after me as their land randomly changes size.

No sweat! If the number of Welsh remains constant the as the land size decreases their size will also decrease so you'll be chased by midget Welshmen.

[dafydd]

No sweat! If the number of Welsh remains constant the as the land size decreases their size will also decrease so you'll be chased by midget Welshmen.

Dai bachs.

[Yeah_Right]

Something seems to be missing from this thread.

Sanity? Common sense? Critical thinking?

[Alice Shortcake]

Popcorn?

[Yeah_Right]

Popcorn?

With green beer for St.Patty's day.

[EHocking]

With green beer for St.Patty's day.Bigfoot has been canonised?

[Elizabeth I]

Never coddle the eggs. Wales gets smaller if you do anything to make the eggs cook faster.
That's right - eggs should never be coddled. Let them grow up the hard way like we did, I say!

[carlitos]

Dai bachs.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii40/nelliebear/car/th_mb.jpg

[Correa Neto]

Stop the mockery! Accept, embrace the timely truth I am presenting you or suffer the consequences.

I predict that if mockery continues, the mods, I mean the gods will come down from the sky and you will feel their wrath.

Your posts, like the Atlanteans, will be sunken in to the depths of AAH.

[King of the Americas]

Something seems to be missing from this thread.

Seriousness.

[gambling_cruiser]

Seriousness.
That one was missing from page one.

[GeeMack]

Something seems to be missing from this thread.
Seriousness.


The very first words from the very first post...

So, lets pretend for a moment [...]


Let's pretend? It was never serious. In fact, it was shown to be a dishonest opening gambit in an attempt to pursue an agenda. An agenda, by the way, which has since been shown beyond any reasonable doubt to be nonsensical. It was a sham. A lie.


Seriousness.
That one was missing from page one.


On that point there's nearly unanimous agreement.

[King of the Americas]

That one was missing from page one.

The discussion has been augmented or amended since then.

I sought 'serious' manners or techniques for a less advanced people to attract the attention and indeed attendance, of a more advance one.

I got what I could, but lost patients due to the overwhelming amount of derails, trolling, and outright ignorance of the material presented.

This thread is too long to invite new discussions or ideas to further the exchange, because no one is going to take the time to read 60 pages of mostly garbage.

This tread has run its course...

[carlitos]

"advanced"

"patience"

"thread"

Try harder with the trolling.

[Andrew Wiggin]

And if the size of Wales is not constant, how the heck are the Brazilians supposed to know how much rain forest to cut down every day?

That would be a possible reason for fluctuation in the price of tropical hardwoods.

[GeeMack]

[...] 60 pages of mostly garbage.


Maybe not mostly garbage, but certainly a plurality. By my calculation 740 posts out of 2420 is 30.5%.

[dafydd]

Something seems to be missing from this thread.

A sane topic to discuss?

[King of the Americas]

A sane topic to discuss?

Are you seriously suggesting the topic of "getting E.T. to return" is 'insane'...?

You are one ignorant individual.

IGNORE being the descriptive term used to describe anyone who capable of saying it is not sane to consider that humans aren't the end all be of of intelligence...

And after all the evidence that Rramjet and others have posted, how can anyone possible be 'certain' of none existence??? ALL the evidence(s) and anecdotes point in the opposite direction. People have seen 'them' throughout ALL of the ages. 'They' appear in EVERY form of media available

And you think it is insane to discuss manners of getting them to descend???

Have you ever heard of the "Willful Ignorance Fallacy"?

[Toke]

Have you ever heard of the "Willful Ignorance Fallacy"?

Is that the one you use to describe people who claim "People have seen 'them' throughout ALL of the ages. 'They' appear in EVERY form of media available" but without acknowledging that the elves have been around for ages before this newfangled flying saucer thing?

[bruto]

Are you seriously suggesting the topic of "getting E.T. to return" is 'insane'...?

You are one ignorant individual.

IGNORE being the descriptive term used to describe anyone who capable of saying it is not sane to consider that humans aren't the end all be of of intelligence...

And after all the evidence that Rramjet and others have posted, how can anyone possible be 'certain' of none existence??? ALL the evidence(s) and anecdotes point in the opposite direction. People have seen 'them' throughout ALL of the ages. 'They' appear in EVERY form of media available

And you think it is insane to discuss manners of getting them to descend???

Have you ever heard of the "Willful Ignorance Fallacy"?

Of course, nobody has heard of the Willful ignorance fallacy," except from you, since you made it up, and since you clearly have not quite grasped what distinguishes a fallacy from other errors. If there were such a thing as a "willful ignorance fallacy" you'd be oxymoronically guilty of it here.

That aside, Rramjet's postings have not contained anything that can really be considered evidence, and nobody here, as far as I know, has posited certainty that ET's don't exist. Only doubt of their presence, and a reasonable degree of assurance, bordering on certainty, that they are not what you think they are. There's a difference here, whether or not you understand it or choose to acknowledge it.

I don't suppose utter silliness can quite be characterized as insanity, but it's a difficult call, especially when the two principal choices are between craziness and stupidity.

[Georg]

"getting E.T. to return" does not logically follow from "consider that humans aren't the end all be of of intelligence"....
Considering is not knowing (at least not for me, but English is not my first language) and even if "they"´d exist (I personally very much consider the possibility of our planet not being the only place where life exists), "they"'d still have to have been/would have to get here first before "they" could return. The credible evidence presented for that is..uhm...still missing, doesn't matter how often you claim the opposite. People have erred, lied, hallucinated throughout ALL of the ages.

'They' appear in EVERY form of media available

Yes, sure. Mary and Jesus also "appear" quite often, from toasts to crap stains and people claiming to have seen apparitions of them etc. That still does not mean they are/were real. You being convinced "they" are/were here does not make it anymore true than other stories and legends people believe in.

[Georg]

Have you ever heard of the "Willful Ignorance Fallacy"?


Yes, I have. On this forum and from you only. Googling the phrase did not bring up other results either. Doesn't seem to be an established thing as you like it to be. Same problem as with the E.T.s visiting us........

[GeeMack]

Are you seriously suggesting the topic of "getting E.T. to return" is 'insane'...?


It's just as sane as suggesting the topic of "getting the goddess Isis to return". There is no objective evidence to support the previous existence of Isis as a genuine tangible entity, certainly not one that has the capability of returning. So no, it wouldn't be sane to consider, other than a fantasy thought experiment, how to get her to return.

You are one ignorant individual.


The uncivil personal attack, wholly devoid of any substantive or on-topic content, is noted.

IGNORE being the descriptive term used to describe anyone who capable of saying it is not sane to consider that humans aren't the end all be of of intelligence...


The inference that anyone has taken this position can be definitively described as a lie.

And after all the evidence that Rramjet and others have posted, how can anyone possible be 'certain' of none existence??? ALL the evidence(s) and anecdotes point in the opposite direction. People have seen 'them' throughout ALL of the ages. 'They' appear in EVERY form of media available


Rramjet hasn't posted a single bit of objective, quantitative evidence to support his ridiculous conjecture. It was suggested that he would do well to familiarize himself with the terms "argument from ignorance" and "argument from incredulity" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance), and see how those terms applied to his screeds. And after thousands of posts, those two fallacies still comprise virtually the entirety of his argument. There is no scientific legitimacy to the claim that "they" exist.

And you think it is insane to discuss manners of getting them to descend???


It is certainly not rational (as a synonym for the word "sane") to discuss manners of getting anything to descend that hasn't been shown to exist.

Have you ever heard of the "Willful Ignorance Fallacy"?


It seems to have been coined right here in this thread. It hasn't been defined, but appears to be an attempt to lend some legitimacy to comments like this...

You are one ignorant individual.


Consider the effort to have failed.

[Wolrab]

It's just as sane as suggesting the topic of "getting the goddess Isis to return".
That is exactly the topic!

[Toke]

That is exactly the topic!

You got that completely wrong, the idea here is to get the sea elves to ascent from Atlantis. ;)

[carlitos]

Of course, nobody has heard of the Willful ignorance fallacy," except from you, since you made it up, and since you clearly have not quite grasped what distinguishes a fallacy from other errors. If there were such a thing as a "willful ignorance fallacy" you'd be oxymoronically guilty of it here.

Yes, I have. On this forum and from you only. Googling the phrase did not bring up other results either. Doesn't seem to be an established thing as you like it to be. Same problem as with the E.T.s visiting us........


It seems to have been coined right here in this thread. It hasn't been defined, but appears to be an attempt to lend some legitimacy to comments like this...
The number one google result (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22willful+ignorance+fallacy%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) for the "willful ignorance fallacy" is this thread. LOL.

ETA - number two result is KotA's other thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=6969699).
:dl:

Serious question - who tagged this thread with "aliens" - LOLOLOLOL

[dlorde]

Are you seriously suggesting the topic of "getting E.T. to return" is 'insane'...?

You are one ignorant individual.

IGNORE being the descriptive term used to describe anyone who capable of saying it is not sane to consider that humans aren't the end all be of of intelligence...

And after all the evidence that Rramjet and others have posted, how can anyone possible be 'certain' of none existence??? ALL the evidence(s) and anecdotes point in the opposite direction. People have seen 'them' throughout ALL of the ages. 'They' appear in EVERY form of media available

And you think it is insane to discuss manners of getting them to descend???

Have you ever heard of the "Willful Ignorance Fallacy"?
Yah, totally agree. It's just the same with tree spirits. Maybe we could all hug a tree at the opening ceremony of the 2012 olympics, and get them out into the open? - then we can ridicule their stupid pointy hats.

[dafydd]

That's right - eggs should never be coddled. Let them grow up the hard way like we did, I say!

I like the texture of a coddled egg.

[dafydd]

Have you ever heard of the "Willful Ignorance Fallacy"?

No,because it is an inane term that you made up.

[Andrew Wiggin]

If I printed out all of KOTA's posts, and spread them out on the ground, they'd cover 2781 square feet, also known as an area a lot smaller than Wales. Just saying...

[Stray Cat]

If I printed out all of KOTA's posts, and spread them out on the ground, they'd cover 2781 square feet, also known as an area a lot smaller than Wales. Just saying...
Yes, but look at it this way... They would have to cut down an area of rain forest considerably smaller than an area the size of Wales to make the paper you used to print them out*.






*If they actually used rain forest trees for making paper.

[bruto]

If I printed out all of KOTA's posts, and spread them out on the ground, they'd cover 2781 square feet, also known as an area a lot smaller than Wales. Just saying...You're indulging in the wasteful inkjet © fallacy.

[Stray Cat]

Which is not the same as the 'wasteful rramjet fallacy', which is all about contributing in great depth on the UFO thread.

[RoboTimbo]

The OP was a "Let's pretend we're pretending" fallacy.

[Stray Cat]

Pretending to pretend is not always fallacious though so the "Let's pretend we're pretending fallacy" is a "Let's pretend we're pretending fallacy fallacy" :confused:

[RoboTimbo]

It's all so confusing, isn't it?

[Stray Cat]

It's all so confusing, isn't it?
It will all become clear as soon as "they return"... just as it was last time they were here. :jaw-dropp

[Georg]

It's all so confusing, isn't it?


If that was an answer to any of KotA's posts, wouldn't it be a perfect example of the "I pretend to be confused, so I don't have to admit that [insert woo of your choice] is definitely true fallacy"?*




*O.K., I admit I'm slightly drunk and I will go to bed now.

[Andrew Wiggin]

You're indulging in the wasteful inkjet © fallacy.

I thought it was the 'do I really need a hard copy of THIS?' fallacy.

[aggle-rithm]

There's a simple reason why "They" have not returned.

"They" owe me money.

About three-fitty.

[Cuddles]

And after all the evidence that Rramjet and others have posted

Yes, you certainly do like Rramjet, don't you. Let's ignore the total lack of evidence or rational argument from him for the moment, and simply point out one of his recent posts on this thread:
Sorry KoTa but regarding your original question I just cannot see what humans could possibly do that would sufficiently attract the gods (aliens, ETs, whatever term you want to use) to directly contact us. It seems to me that everything that can be tried to attract their attention has already been tried (from human sacrifice to peaceful prayer and the "contactee movement" to murderous warfare and trying to shoot them out of the skies - and even catastrophic natural disasters). Nothing has worked so far. It's all been done. We just have to accept that we have absolutely no power over the gods (if they exist at all - and yes I know, there is plenty of circumstantial evidence for ET - and even for your thesis - ET as god(s) - though that to a lesser extent - but it is all just that: circumstantial and therefore open to misinterpretation). If your thesis is correct, then they may indeed "return" (at least the possibility will always remain), but I just don't see that we can do anything to influence when or if that might be (perhaps if we survive long enough as a technological species to be able to directly threaten them - then perhaps they might "reconsider"? But who really knows...?

Sorry, but even your hero Rramjet thinks your idea is stupid, even though he believes in aliens as well.

[King of the Americas]

If I printed out all of KOTA's posts, and spread them out on the ground, they'd cover 2781 square feet, also known as an area a lot smaller than Wales. Just saying...

Is that ALL of my posts, or just the retorts in this thread?

Also, are you allotting for the 'length' of each post, or did you just figure one post per page?

Or did you just pull that number out of your bum, for a joke?

[dafydd]

Is that ALL of my posts, or just the retorts in this thread?

Also, are you allotting for the 'length' of each post, or did you just figure one post per page?

Or did you just pull that number out of your bum, for a joke?

This entire thread is a joke so when in Rome......

[Crossbow]

Is that ALL of my posts, or just the retorts in this thread?

Also, are you allotting for the 'length' of each post, or did you just figure one post per page?

Or did you just pull that number out of your bum, for a joke?

They will not return because they have never left!

Actually, I suspect that KoA is one of them since his logic is so 'out-of-this-world'.

;)

[The Shrike]

This UFO style craft was at Olympic games (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCYElo49dJI) before. Pretty good concerning the year it happened. Could do awesome one now days.

There might be pages devoted to this here in this thread, but has anyone noticed the length of this video? There's all the proof you need right there.

[King of the Americas]

There might be pages devoted to this here in this thread, but has anyone noticed the length of this video? There's all the proof you need right there.

I was 9, and I have no recollection of this...

No one seems to be freaking out, even when the E.T. dude shows up.

This gives me hope.

[Georg]

No one seems to be freaking out, even when the E.T. dude shows up.

It was a show, and people ware aware it was a show. Why should they freak out?
This gives me hope.

Regarding what?

[King of the Americas]

It was a show, and people ware aware it was a show. Why should they freak out?


Regarding what?

No...there WERE gasps, but no one totally freaked out. And I'll bet some weren't sure it WAS a show...

Hope that an even more modern crowd would greet heavenly visitors, openly just like this, at another Olympics.

[dafydd]

No...there WERE gasps, but no one totally freaked out. And I'll bet some weren't sure it WAS a show...

Hope that an even more modern crowd would greet heavenly visitors, openly just like this, at another Olympics.

They all knew it was a show.

[yodaluver28]

Since the games were held in LA, they apparently wanted something very Hollywood for the closing ceremonies and sci-fi/action films were huge at the time. Return of the Jedi had come out a year earlier, ET two years prior, and Star Trek III, Gremlins, Ghostbusters, and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom were all big hits that summer. So they went with the UFO/alien visit. I was only nine at the time but I remember finding it pretty cool. I don't recall anyone thinking it was real.

[Georg]

No...there WERE gasps,


I'm sure there are gasps during most good shows, if not, the performers would be quite disappointed.
So that proves what exactly?

but no one totally freaked out. And I'll bet some weren't sure it WAS a show...


Having a percentage of idiots people out of touch with reality in a large crowd is not too surprising either, there sure are some that think what Copperfield, Randi etc. are doing is the "real thing" as well.
So again, that proves what exactly?

Hope that an even more modern crowd would greet heavenly visitors openly just like this, at another Olympics.


...which has exactly nothing to do with whether they exist or not.....
Back to dreaming, eh?
KotA, I've smoked a fair share of weed in my life as well, but an important point is not letting that blur the line between "I wish it were so" and facts.

[King of the Americas]

...

...So again, that proves what exactly?

...which has exactly nothing to do with whether they exist or not.....
Back to dreaming, eh?
KotA, I've smoked a fair share of weed in my life as well, but an important point is not letting that blur the line between "I wish it were so" and facts.

It doesn't prove anything, other than people wouldn't totally lose it, if 'they' did descend.

This thread isn't about arguing whether or not they exist...

[dafydd]

It doesn't prove anything, other than people wouldn't totally lose it, if 'they' did descend.

This thread isn't about arguing whether or not they exist...

A total waste of time then. My time is my own to waste and you have been (unintentionally) amusing.

[Georg]

It doesn't prove anything, other than people wouldn't totally lose it, if 'they' did descend.


No, it doesn't even prove that, since most people in the audience were well aware that it was a show and not the real thing.


This thread isn't about arguing whether or not they exist...


A "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"-discussion then? Oh well......

[dafydd]

No, it doesn't even prove that, since most people in the audience were well aware that it was a show and not the real thing.





A "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"-discussion then? Oh well......

Any lobotomy patients in the audience might have thought that it was real.

[GeeMack]

A "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"-discussion then? Oh well......


It's a...

So, lets pretend for a moment [...]


... discussion. But if you don't pretend to the liking of the OP you might have to suffer being ignored.

[Georg]

Any lobotomy patients in the audience might have thought that it was real.


I was trying to express the same point, just a little bit more diplomatic, you know....political correctness and all that.... :)

It's a...

Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
So, lets pretend for a moment [...]

... discussion. But if you don't pretend to the liking of the OP you might have to suffer being ignored.


Well, if that's going to happen, there's still the "I will cry quietly into my pillow tonight" option (if that makes any sense in English, sometimes I'm still not sure if a direct translation of my mother tongue brings the point across).

[King of the Americas]

Orson Wells really screwed those people up...

This however, is a newer younger, more open minded generation. And as long as 'they' didn't come "guns a'blazen" I think everything is going to be just fine.

A LOT of "I told you so's"...probably more "I figured as much's"...

That said, I am sure there will be a fair amount of people seeking all kinds of religious instruction and or direction. "Is this 'God'?"

While I do believe 'them' TO be the God of the Bible, I think they are just technologically superior E.T.'s, that our ancestors mistook as "God".

[Georg]

Dream on.

[GeeMack]

Don't forget the OP has established the premise that none of his comments in this thread have any basis in reality. This is how all these posts must be read...

So, lets pretend for a moment that [...]

Orson Wells really screwed those people up...

This however, is a newer younger, more open minded generation. And as long as 'they' didn't come "guns a'blazen" I think everything is going to be just fine.

A LOT of "I told you so's"...probably more "I figured as much's"...

That said, I am sure there will be a fair amount of people seeking all kinds of religious instruction and or direction. "Is this 'God'?"

While I do believe 'them' TO be the God of the Bible, I think they are just technologically superior E.T.'s, that our ancestors mistook as "God".

[Georg]

Don't forget the OP has established the premise that none of his comments in this thread have any basis in reality.


Well, I guess that's not exactly what he wanted to express with saying

So, lets pretend for a moment that [...]


I think it was the only chance he saw to start a serious discussion about a topic that probably (haven't read the whole thread) no one except him takes serious at all. Didn't work out as planned, though.....:D


This is how all these posts must be read...


I'm afraid you are right.

[dafydd]

Orson Wells really screwed those people up...

This however, is a newer younger, more open minded generation. And as long as 'they' didn't come "guns a'blazen" I think everything is going to be just fine.

A LOT of "I told you so's"...probably more "I figured as much's"...

That said, I am sure there will be a fair amount of people seeking all kinds of religious instruction and or direction. "Is this 'God'?"

While I do believe 'them' TO be the God of the Bible, I think they are just technologically superior E.T.'s, that our ancestors mistook as "God".

Meanwhile,back in the real world...........

[Georg]

Meanwhile,back in the real world...........

Spoilsport :D.

[dafydd]

Spoilsport :D.

Ok. Permission to recommence troll baiting granted.

[Georg]

Ok. Permission to recommence troll baiting granted.

:relieved: . Thanks.

[King of the Americas]

:relieved: . Thanks.

You two know of course, that this behavior makes YOU both trolls, right?

[EHocking]

You two know of course, that this behavior makes YOU both trolls, right?He's Returned!

dafydd, Georg, were you looking skywards when you posted?

[dafydd]

You two know of course, that this behavior makes YOU both trolls, right?

As I said,when in Rome,do as the Romans do.

[dafydd]

He's Returned!

dafydd, Georg, were you looking skywards when you posted?

No,I was looking earthward in an attempt to make the super intelligent goblins appear. Didn't work.

[bruto]

I was intently looking bridgeward and.....by golly, this stuff works!

[Georg]

He's Returned!

dafydd, Georg, were you looking skywards when you posted?


To be honest, no. But I farted in their general direction. Seemed to have some effect.

[Yeah_Right]

To be honest, no. But I farted in their general direction. Seemed to have some effect.

Probably drove them back heavenward, holding their noses.

[Georg]

Probably drove them back heavenward, holding their noses.


So it's all my fault now? Well, at least KoTa has someone to blame now if his dreams do not come true.

[Rramjet]

Don't forget the OP has established the premise that none of his comments in this thread have any basis in reality. This is how all these posts must be read...

What KotA is putting to you GeeMack is a proposition. As I see it (and KotA will correct me if I am wrong): What if the god of the bible (or the gods of the “ancients”) were actually ET? What if such a god (or gods) had given mankind a “helping hand” - gave us a kick-start so to speak? If so, they seem to have disappeared from the scene. How then can we get them back to help us now (in the present day)?

What KotA has proposed seems to be a many faceted, interesting and legitimate topic for sceptical discussion. Now of course you may legitimately argue that his proposition does not have any basis in reality – but it is not legitimate to merely state the unfounded assertion as if the mere statement of it will somehow magically confer veracity on it. What you need to do therefore is justify (using evidence and logic) why you believe KotA’s proposition does not have any basis in reality. All I see people in this thread doing is indulging in denial, mockery and thinly veiled ad hominems. While it does not surprise me that JREF members consider this to be a legitimate way to conduct a debate – to outsiders looking in, I suspect it does JREF no favours at all. It may even lead some to consider that, if this is the best they have to counter KotA's propositions, then perhasp there is something in them after all.

[dafydd]

What KotA is putting to you GeeMack is a proposition. As I see it (and KotA will correct me if I am wrong): What if the god of the bible (or the gods of the “ancients”) were actually ET? What if such a god (or gods) had given mankind a “helping hand” - gave us a kick-start so to speak? If so, they seem to have disappeared from the scene. How then can we get them back to help us now (in the present day)?

What KotA has proposed seems to be a many faceted, interesting and legitimate topic for sceptical discussion. Now of course you may legitimately argue that his proposition does not have any basis in reality – but it is not legitimate to merely state the unfounded assertion as if the mere statement of it will somehow magically confer veracity on it. What you need to do therefore is justify (using evidence and logic) why you believe KotA’s proposition does not have any basis in reality. All I see people in this thread doing is indulging in denial, mockery and thinly veiled ad hominems. While it does not surprise me that JREF members consider this to be a legitimate way to conduct a debate – to outsiders looking in, I suspect it does JREF no favours at all. It may even lead some to consider that, if this is the best they have to counter KotA's propositions, then perhasp there is something in them after all.

There is nothing to them. This thread is just a knockabout respite from reality. We could discuss the leprechauns in my garden if you like. They are invisible but I know they are there. I believe that they are the real old gods. Would you take that seriously?

[Rramjet]

There is nothing to them. This thread is just a knockabout respite from reality. We could discuss the leprechauns in my garden if you like. They are invisible but I know they are there. I believe that they are the real old gods. Would you take that seriously?
No matter what I believed, it would not constitute reason for me to post unfounded denials, mocking language or abusive ad hominems. If your beliefs on the subject actually mattered to me (which they don't), I may post a logical refutation, probably also using historical evidence. No more, no less.

[dafydd]

No matter what I believed, it would not constitute reason for me to post unfounded denials, mocking language or abusive ad hominems. If your beliefs on the subject actually mattered to me (which they don't), I may post a logical refutation, probably also using historical evidence. No more, no less.

The denials are not unfounded. I cannot believe that you are taking this thread seriously. Lighten up. Your beliefs do not matter to me either. You might post a refutation but judging by your responses here and in other threads,it will not be logical. After all,you believe that UFOs=aliens. Will you be joining in Kota's moment skyward?

[bruto]

I'm not sure how the god of the Bible came into this, but if we're seriously intending to discuss that one, then an immediate problem arises: that god maintains consistently throughout that work that he is the only one. He is not part of some race of gods. In addition, despite the great deal of praise and worshipful attitude taken toward that god by the writers of the bible, and their pretty obvious willingness to attribute to him any virtue they could possibly get away with, they are quite silent on technological boosts and helping hands. About the best that god could do was to lay down the specs for the ark. If we stretch a point, we can give him credit for the natural polymers used to caulk it, but otherwise, there's not much evidence in the bible that that god had much interest in boosting his people's technology. Nothing the chosen people built or did appears to be outside the normal technological level of the time. If there were in fact many gods and the chosen people were not chosen, then the Bible is useless as a reference. If there was only one god and the Jews were his chosen people as it says, then any attempt to conflate him with KoTa's ET's is preposterous even by space-woo standards.

[dafydd]

deleted.

[Rramjet]

The denials are not unfounded. I cannot believe that you are taking this thread seriously. Lighten up. Your beliefs do not matter to me either. You might post a refutation but judging by your responses here and in other threads,it will not be logical. After all,you believe that UFOs=aliens. Will you be joining in Kota's moment skyward?
Oh ...I forgot to add ...posting lies is not particularly helpful either.

[Rramjet]

I'm not sure how the god of the Bible came into this, but if we're seriously intending to discuss that one, then an immediate problem arises: that god maintains consistently throughout that work that he is the only one. He is not part of some race of gods. In addition, despite the great deal of praise and worshipful attitude taken toward that god by the writers of the bible, and their pretty obvious willingness to attribute to him any virtue they could possibly get away with, they are quite silent on technological boosts and helping hands. About the best that god could do was to lay down the specs for the ark. If we stretch a point, we can give him credit for the natural polymers used to caulk it, but otherwise, there's not much evidence in the bible that that god had much interest in boosting his people's technology. Nothing the chosen people built or did appears to be outside the normal technological level of the time. If there were in fact many gods and the chosen people were not chosen, then the Bible is useless as a reference. If there was only one god and the Jews were his chosen people as it says, then any attempt to conflate him with KoTa's ET's is preposterous even by space-woo standards.
I suspect that KotA raised the issue of the god of the bible thinking in terms Ezekial. I don't think KotA is actually stating that "god" is ET, but his emmissaries might have been... and I also suspect that the "helping hand" is in terms of such things as the pyramids (globally et al.) and perhaps ancient Mespotamian culture (etc). I think his thesis is that what has come down to us, being decribed as "gods", might actually have been ETs - either maquerading as gods or simply being taken to be gods.

[dafydd]

Oh ...I forgot to add ...posting lies is not particularly helpful either.

Stop doing it.

[GeeMack]

What KotA is putting to you GeeMack is a proposition. As I see it (and KotA will correct me if I am wrong): What if the god of the bible (or the gods of the “ancients”) were actually ET? What if such a god (or gods) had given mankind a “helping hand” - gave us a kick-start so to speak? If so, they seem to have disappeared from the scene. How then can we get them back to help us now (in the present day)?


Actually the thread started as a game of let's-pretend, but we quickly learned that was a dishonest ruse. It was actually an attempt to pursue an agenda of using the opening ceremonies of the Olympics to call in some imaginary beings. It started out as a lie. But in the spirit of skepticism and to give the OP the benefit of the doubt even after the lie was exposed, many legitimate responses were offered. Many valid questions were asked early on to try to flesh out the thread and make it productive. For example I posted this...

I think whoever made up the scenario left out some very important points. All the responses so far have answered to the fantasy. Nobody said this, that, or the other thing was against the rules. Do these made up aliens understand English, French, Morse Code? Can they read sheet music? Are they able to perceive varying frequencies of light, radio waves, sound? Do they see everything in black and white, red and blue, a range of colors far beyond our own ability to see colors? Are they a million miles away, a thousand, hiding behind the moon, just outside our atmosphere but cloaked and invisible? Do we have to wait for them to come through a time hole or from another dimension? Can we send our request through that time hole or into that other dimension? Psychically? By smell? With shapes? Does a cake with varying thicknesses of layers mean something to these made up aliens? And that's just getting started.


The post was ignored, and I was treated with the same kind of flippant dismissal and ignorance as several other posters. Some examples...

You're new, so allow me to explain how wrong you are.

That you found the need to post, but not offer a solution reeks more of laziness, than intellectualism.

Clearly you don't want to play, so get out of way.

Start your own thread! This is a 'how to get the E.T's to descend', if the anecdotes are all correct, thread.

If you don't wish to take part, you may leave.

Your wit is only exceeded by your lack of originality.

It is no longer a wonder why I had you on my ignore list...

If you don't want to take part in the actual intended discussion, excuse yourself.

As retorts go, this one is neither funny, nor informative.

"Don't retreat, reload."

Take another shot buddy, I think you've got something useful in you, we just have to figure how how to get it past your ego.

Nothing I've asked for or of you has been dishonest or hidden.

I have repeatedly asked you to either take part in the intended discussion, or GO AWAY.

If you continue with your present course, you'll go back on my ignore list.

You sound a little paranoid, dude...

...Thank you for your input, regardless of how utterly useless.

If you don't wish to partake, go away.


The thread is filled with examples of the OP's displays of contempt for other members and disdain for their legitimate responses.

What KotA has proposed seems to be a many faceted, interesting and legitimate topic for sceptical discussion. Now of course you may legitimately argue that his proposition does not have any basis in reality – but it is not legitimate to merely state the unfounded assertion as if the mere statement of it will somehow magically confer veracity on it. What you need to do therefore is justify (using evidence and logic) why you believe KotA’s proposition does not have any basis in reality.


Absolutely not. The person making the claim that aliens exist is responsible for supporting it. The OP has described some ridiculous scenarios and made some outrageous claims about an alleged -- but not demonstrated -- reality. He has offered nothing but arguments from incredulity and ignorance to support those claims. It is not up to anyone else to show why a fantasy isn't real. It is up to the person describing something that appears to be a fantasy to show that it is real. This burden of proof thing is grade school stuff. People shouldn't get past about 12 years old without understanding it. Unfortunately too many do. And plenty of them believe in aliens.

All I see people in this thread doing is indulging in denial, mockery and thinly veiled ad hominems. While it does not surprise me that JREF members consider this to be a legitimate way to conduct a debate – to outsiders looking in, I suspect it does JREF no favours at all. It may even lead some to consider that, if this is the best they have to counter KotA's propositions, then perhasp there is something in them after all.


Nobody should be expected to counter a ridiculous proposal with anything other than ridicule. The OP took this thread directly down the path to mockery. The very first lines were...

So, lets pretend for a moment that all the anecdotes ARE accurate, that history IS a depiction of gods descending from the heavens, and that this is what people are seeing when they witness a U.F.O. The debate is over they exist.


And when people tried to play along according to that premise, they were treated with disdain and contempt and added to his ignore list one after the next. Any outsiders looking in to this thread will probably laugh at finding out some people so vigorously believe in aliens without a modicum of evidence to support those beliefs. As for "the best they have to counter KotA's propositions"? Again, the burden of proof for the existence of aliens is on the claimant. And given the complete lack of any such evidence, the proposition that anyone invest any effort into calling in something which has not even been demonstrated to exist is just flat out silly.

[dafydd]

Actually the thread started as a game of let's-pretend, but we quickly learned that was a dishonest ruse. It was actually an attempt to pursue an agenda of using the opening ceremonies of the Olympics to call in some imaginary beings. It started out as a lie. But in the spirit of skepticism and to give the OP the benefit of the doubt even after the lie was exposed, many legitimate responses were offered. Many valid questions were asked early on to try to flesh out the thread and make it productive. For example I posted this...




The post was ignored, and I was treated with the same kind of flippant dismissal and ignorance as several other posters. Some examples...


























The thread is filled with examples of the OP's displays of contempt for other members and disdain for their legitimate responses.




Absolutely not. The person making the claim that aliens exist is responsible for supporting it. The OP has described some ridiculous scenarios and made some outrageous claims about an alleged -- but not demonstrated -- reality. He has offered nothing but arguments from incredulity and ignorance to support those claims. It is not up to anyone else to show why a fantasy isn't real. It is up to the person describing something that appears to be a fantasy to show that it is real. This burden of proof thing is grade school stuff. People shouldn't get past about 12 years old without understanding it. Unfortunately too many do. And plenty of them believe in aliens.




Nobody should be expected to counter a ridiculous proposal with anything other than ridicule. The OP took this thread directly down the path to mockery. The very first lines were...




And when people tried to play along according to that premise, they were treated with disdain and contempt and added to his ignore list one after the next. Any outsiders looking in to this thread will probably laugh at finding out some people so vigorously believe in aliens without a modicum of evidence to support those beliefs. As for "the best they have to counter KotA's propositions"? Again, the burden of proof for the existence of aliens is on the claimant. And given the complete lack of any such evidence, the proposition that anyone invest any effort into calling in something which has not even been demonstrated to exist is just flat out silly.

Correct. We did our best,but to no avail. The mockery is entirely justified. After all,clowns are there to be laughed at and I get the impression that Kota enjoys being laughed at.

[RoboTimbo]

...What you need to do therefore is justify (using evidence and logic) why you believe KotA’s proposition does not have any basis in reality...

This is typical RrogicTM. The most outlandish propositions are valid until someone can prove to the woo's satisfaction that they're outlandish. The woo's dishonesty and deceit are overlooked.


*Note that I'm using KotA's term, "woo".

[bruto]

I suspect that KotA raised the issue of the god of the bible thinking in terms Ezekial. I don't think KotA is actually stating that "god" is ET, but his emmissaries might have been... and I also suspect that the "helping hand" is in terms of such things as the pyramids (globally et al.) and perhaps ancient Mespotamian culture (etc). I think his thesis is that what has come down to us, being decribed as "gods", might actually have been ETs - either maquerading as gods or simply being taken to be gods.Suspect what you will, it still doesn't make any more sense in your version than it does in his. Whether gods or their emissaries, they didn't give their chosen people a technological edge over the Greeks or the Egyptians. So we are back to my original objection to KotA's original thesis: if his anecdotes about gods from the skies, etc. are to be considered true, then those anecdotes themselves can be considered as evidence that those gods are essentially useless, at least in terms of technology. It's all flash and filigree, temples and altars and idols, no use to us except to facilitate our devotion to their greedy need for adulation. To hell with them. We're better off without them.

[Rramjet]

Suspect what you will, it still doesn't make any more sense in your version than it does in his. Whether gods or their emissaries, they didn't give their chosen people a technological edge over the Greeks or the Egyptians. So we are back to my original objection to KotA's original thesis: if his anecdotes about gods from the skies, etc. are to be considered true, then those anecdotes themselves can be considered as evidence that those gods are essentially useless, at least in terms of technology. It's all flash and filigree, temples and altars and idols, no use to us except to facilitate our devotion to their greedy need for adulation. To hell with them. We're better off without them.
I think you (and others here) have the wrong end of the stick my friend. I am neither defending nor denying KotA's claims. I am merely pointing out that he has a right to make them - and if he is incorrect then merely spouting vitriol, mockery, unfounded assertion and bullying abuse back at him (or me) will do nothing to change his (or my, or any other reader's) mind. In fact it may have precisely the opposite effect and drive people away from what JREF believes and alleges to in fact consider that if no-one can mount a considered rational arguement against him, KotA may have a point.

[gambling_cruiser]

I think you (and others here) have the wrong end of the stick my friend. I am neither defending nor denying KotA's claims. I am merely pointing out that he has a right to make them - and if he is incorrect then merely spouting vitriol, mockery, unfounded assertion and bullying abuse back at him (or me) will do nothing to change his (or my, or any other reader's) mind. In fact it may have precisely the opposite effect and drive people away from what JREF believes and alleges to in fact consider that if no-one can mount a considered rational arguement against him, KotA may have a point.
We'll miss those totally detached from reality, really!.

[Sean84]

<snip>
KotA may have a point.
You keep saying that but neither of you have bothered to make a damn point and present evidence for it.

[RoboTimbo]

I think you (and others here) have the wrong end of the stick my friend. I am neither defending nor denying KotA's claims. I am merely pointing out that he has a right to make them - and if he is incorrect then merely spouting vitriol, mockery, unfounded assertion and bullying abuse back at him (or me) will do nothing to change his (or my, or any other reader's) mind. In fact it may have precisely the opposite effect and drive people away from what JREF believes and alleges to in fact consider that if no-one can mount a considered rational arguement against him, KotA may have a point.

This is an unfounded assertion and we are right to dismiss it as such. This is simply you ignoring KotA's dishonesty and deceit while also ignoring what has been said to you. Go back and reread the posts that you skipped in arriving at your unfounded assertion.

Otherwise, it's just you sticking your fingers in your ears saying "LAA LAA LAA, you're all a bunch of meanines!" and no rational discussion can be had with you. At least try to address the arguments that have been raised.

[King of the Americas]

Suspect what you will, it still doesn't make any more sense in your version than it does in his. Whether gods or their emissaries, they didn't give their chosen people a technological edge over the Greeks or the Egyptians. So we are back to my original objection to KotA's original thesis: if his anecdotes about gods from the skies, etc. are to be considered true, then those anecdotes themselves can be considered as evidence that those gods are essentially useless, at least in terms of technology. It's all flash and filigree, temples and altars and idols, no use to us except to facilitate our devotion to their greedy need for adulation. To hell with them. We're better off without them.

They gave us the measure of time...calenders...quite useful.

What stopped Alexander's march East?

[King of the Americas]

Whoever wrote this is WRONG:

Absolutely not. The person making the claim that aliens exist is responsible for supporting it. The OP has described some ridiculous scenarios and made some outrageous claims about an alleged -- but not demonstrated -- reality. He has offered nothing but arguments from incredulity and ignorance to support those claims. It is not up to anyone else to show why a fantasy isn't real. It is up to the person describing something that appears to be a fantasy to show that it is real. This burden of proof thing is grade school stuff. People shouldn't get past about 12 years old without understanding it. Unfortunately too many do. And plenty of them believe in aliens.

---

First, "I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALIENS."

Second, 'I' am evidence that 'they' (non-human E.T. intelligent beings) exist. Rramjet has provided plenty of evidence from a variety of sources. There exists in EVERY form of media you can think of 'record' of non-human E.T. intelligence.

That said this thread is NOT about arguing upon whether or not it is intelligent to ignore so much information from such a wide range of sources throughout time. I've personally created a fallacy just for folks like you. It is called the "Willful Ignorance Fallacy".

This thread asks participants to 'accept' that all the anecdotes about a non-human E.T. existence are indeed true, and asks that retorts be focused on techniques or manners of inviting 'them' to descend (again, as it were).

I've provided another similar example about how an as of yet un-contacted tribe might flag down a plane passing over. How would or could the tribe let it be known to those in the L.W.B. to land?

If you are trying to argue that I haven't provided you enough evidence, then this thread isn't for you. Go away.

[dafydd]

I think you (and others here) have the wrong end of the stick my friend. I am neither defending nor denying KotA's claims. I am merely pointing out that he has a right to make them - and if he is incorrect then merely spouting vitriol, mockery, unfounded assertion and bullying abuse back at him (or me) will do nothing to change his (or my, or any other reader's) mind. In fact it may have precisely the opposite effect and drive people away from what JREF believes and alleges to in fact consider that if no-one can mount a considered rational arguement against him, KotA may have a point.

We can't go to Bedlam any more to see the inmates,this is the modern day equivalent.

[dafydd]

They gave us the measure of time...calenders...quite useful.

What stopped Alexander's march East?

A fever,which killed him.

[dafydd]

Whoever wrote this is WRONG:

Absolutely not. The person making the claim that aliens exist is responsible for supporting it. The OP has described some ridiculous scenarios and made some outrageous claims about an alleged -- but not demonstrated -- reality. He has offered nothing but arguments from incredulity and ignorance to support those claims. It is not up to anyone else to show why a fantasy isn't real. It is up to the person describing something that appears to be a fantasy to show that it is real. This burden of proof thing is grade school stuff. People shouldn't get past about 12 years old without understanding it. Unfortunately too many do. And plenty of them believe in aliens.

---

First, "I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALIENS."

Second, 'I' am evidence that 'they' (non-human E.T. intelligent beings) exist. Rramjet has provided plenty of evidence from a variety of sources. There exists in EVERY form of media you can think of 'record' of non-human E.T. intelligence.

That said this thread is NOT about arguing upon whether or not it is intelligent to ignore so much information from such a wide range of sources throughout time. I've personally created a fallacy just for folks like you. It is called the "Willful Ignorance Fallacy".

This thread acts participants to 'accept' that all the anecdotes about a non-human E.T. existence are indeed true, and asks that retorts be focused on techniques or manners of inviting 'them' to descend (again, as it were).

I've provided another similar example about how an as of yet un-contacted tribe might flag down a plane passing over. How would or could the tribe let it be known to those in the L.W.B. to land?

If you are trying to argue that I haven't provided you enough evidence, then this thread isn't for you. Go away.

You have provided no evidence.

[King of the Americas]

A fever,which killed him.

Ever read this:

329 BC:
Alexander the Great, via his historians: told of 2 strange
objects in the sky that dived repeatedly at his army as they
were attempting a river crossing. (Jaxartes River). The action
so panicked his elephants, horses, and men they had to abandon
the river crossing until the following day. They were described
as great silver shields, spitting fire around the rims.
Contributed by Thon"

---

If it is accurate, this is 'them' trying to deter or otherwise direct or misdirect an advancing army.