Quit Driving to lower gas prices

[lydever91]

To lower the prices of gas, can people go on a sort of strike, and not drive? It would take, what, two days? Walking isn't even that bad. Of course drive to work, but other than that, walk or ride a bike. Heck, it may even become a natural thing to some people who are overweight by making exercise fun.

[Emperor_Gestahl]

The only driving you could cease in protest without also lowering the GDP would be recreational driving.. Generally people don't just burn gas when they drive, there are other other economic activities taking place (working, shopping) the stopping of which would shrink the economy.

I doubt there'd be a big effect on gas prices in 2 days anyway. If the price of oil did fall much other countries would be right there to put a bid under it. Fuel conservation is a good general goal but OPEC and oil traders aren't going to be swayed by token protests.

[The True Scotsman]

To lower the prices of gas, can people go on a sort of strike, and not drive? It would take, what, two days? Walking isn't even that bad. Of course drive to work, but other than that, walk or ride a bike. Heck, it may even become a natural thing to some people who are overweight by making exercise fun.

What do you expect will happen when the "strike" is over?

[timhau]

Drive gas prices down by not driving for two days? Yeah, that'll teach Big Oil.

[The True Scotsman]

The only driving you could cease in protest without also lowering the GDP would be recreational driving.

I agree with your general point, but you seem to be discounting gasoline from GDP.

[LTC8K6]

To lower the prices of gas, can people go on a sort of strike, and not drive? It would take, what, two days? Walking isn't even that bad. Of course drive to work, but other than that, walk or ride a bike. Heck, it may even become a natural thing to some people who are overweight by making exercise fun.

Are you the one who keeps sending out those emails?

[PixyMisa]

As prices go up, people will drive less. Don't need to convince anyone of anything, it will just happen.

If only there were a field of study that examined influences of that nature...

[lydever91]

Are you the one who keeps sending out those emails?

No, I'm not the one sending out any e-mails. This was just an idea to try and lower gas, since the area I live in people don't need to drive to get to the store or the mall.

The bus fare is a dollar, and the bus goes through at least four cities around me within a half hour.

[KoihimeNakamura]

Generally speaking, I agree, but for example, I have to drive to work.
THe bus doesn't run when I need it to.

[Wirelight]

And besides, I drive a Buick

[MortFurd]

As prices go up, people will drive less. Don't need to convince anyone of anything, it will just happen.

If only there were a field of study that examined influences of that nature...
Do you really think so?
Come to Germany for a while. Gasoline is 1.50EUR per liter (approy. $7.84 per gallon.) People drive as they must. It doesn't stop them or noticeably change their driving habits. People like me who drive to so as to conserve gas are the exception, fast is better as far as most folks are concerned.

The Green Party has been pushing for (and getting) higher fuel taxes for years, and it hasn't changed to driving habits.

[timhau]

Generally speaking, I agree, but for example, I have to drive to work.
THe bus doesn't run when I need it to.

It sometimes doesn't do that, and even if it does, it doesn't always go where you want it to go, and even if it does, it usually takes the scenic route. I started thinking about the competitiveness of public transportation this fall when I rented a winter storage place for my motorcycle.

The bike is in a big warehouse in an industrial area, where a lot of people work. To get there from my home on a motorcycle, it takes 10-15 minutes. To get back home from there on a bus takes about 55 minutes from the second I step into the bus . The bus doesn't go directly to my home but to the central bus depot downtown, where I had to switch lines. What's worse, the bus doesn't go directly to the main bus depot -- instead it circles around the industrial area first and then makes a tour of a residential area nearby.

In other words, if I worked there and wanted to ride the bus instead of driving, I'd have to add at least an hour and 20 minutes to each and every workday; that doesn't include waiting for the bus when I depart for/from work, and also assumes I can make the switch from one line to another with practically no waiting time, as I did on my ride home. That's 6 hours and 40 minutes in a week, or an extra workday for every six days at work.

What's more, if I already own a car or a motorcycle and the insurance, maintenance, and depreciation costs are running anyway, using the bus is not only much more time-consuming, it's also more expensive. A bus ride is €2 a pop, which can go down 40% or so by using multi-ride cards; the amount of gasoline or diesel fuel I'd burn during a drive there costs only a fraction. If I already own a car, public transportation simply cannot compete; it could not compete even if it was free, if I put any value on my own time. Even if I didn't own a car, the time question and bus costs could make it worthwhile to buy a cheap old wreck just for driving to work.

[lydever91]

And besides, I drive a Buick

lol
I drive a little Geo, and prices are still too high for me to drive to school each day I have class.

Maybe we can all learn to maintain our own cars and try making home-made fuel? Sounds exciting to me :rolleyes:

[timhau]

Donald Duck tried that once and invented Duckmite. It didn't turn out well.

[psionl0]

A bus ride is €2 a pop, which can go down 40% or so by using multi-ride cards; the amount of gasoline or diesel fuel I'd burn during a drive there costs only a fraction. If I already own a car, public transportation simply cannot compete; it could not compete even if it was free, if I put any value on my own time. Even if I didn't own a car, the time question and bus costs could make it worthwhile to buy a cheap old wreck just for driving to work.I gather you don't have to pay for parking where you work.

[timhau]

I gather you don't have to pay for parking where you work.

I don't work there, that was a hypothetical. But no, I do assume that parking is free there. Parking space seemed to be in ample supply; this is not New York.

[welshdean]

I don't understand you Merricans. As at the time of posting the average gas price for you guys is $3/Gal. We in the UK are paying £6 ($9.50).
So shut up, stop moaning and pay a realistic price for your petrol.

[Ocelot]

As prices go up, people will drive less. Don't need to convince anyone of anything, it will just happen.

If only there were a field of study that examined influences of that nature...

If only. What do you think such a field would call the demand for a product that wasn't affected by price quite so much? I think price inelasticity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand#Selected_price_elastici ties) has a nice ring to it.

[Puppycow]

I've been on a driving strike for years and it doesn't seem to make any difference in the price of gas, but it has saved me individually a lot of money.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

To lower the prices of gas, can people go on a sort of strike, and not drive? It would take, what, two days? Walking isn't even that bad. Of course drive to work, but other than that, walk or ride a bike. Heck, it may even become a natural thing to some people who are overweight by making exercise fun.

If I can't drive, how am I supposed to get home from the pub?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

As prices go up, people will drive less. Don't need to convince anyone of anything, it will just happen.

If only there were a field of study that examined influences of that nature...

I bet we could even represent it on a chart!

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Do you really think so?
Come to Germany for a while. Gasoline is 1.50EUR per liter (approy. $7.84 per gallon.) People drive as they must. It doesn't stop them or noticeably change their driving habits. People like me who drive to so as to conserve gas are the exception, fast is better as far as most folks are concerned.

The Green Party has been pushing for (and getting) higher fuel taxes for years, and it hasn't changed to driving habits.

Then the taxes aren't high enough.

If people aren't cutting back on driving, they are cutting back in other places that you don't see.

[Loss Leader]

To lower the prices of gas, can people go on a sort of strike, and not drive? It would take, what, two days? Walking isn't even that bad. Of course drive to work, but other than that, walk or ride a bike. Heck, it may even become a natural thing to some people who are overweight by making exercise fun.


Won't work unless people never make up for the errands they missed for those two days. The packages that would have been delivered can never, ever make it to their destinations. The runs to the grocery store can't be made the day before the strike or ever after.

In general, it just will not work at all.

Lowering gas usage with more efficient transportation and more local sourcing (along with many other ideas), is the only way to lower the total cost of gas to the nation.

[The True Scotsman]

As prices go up, people will drive less. Don't need to convince anyone of anything, it will just happen.

Not necessarily. As Ocelot stated, gasoline is relatively inelastic. In the short run, no significant change will take place. In the long run, it is more likely that people will consume less gasoline (ie switching to better technology) than drive less.

[Puppycow]

Do you really think so?
Come to Germany for a while. Gasoline is 1.50EUR per liter (approy. $7.84 per gallon.) People drive as they must. It doesn't stop them or noticeably change their driving habits. People like me who drive to so as to conserve gas are the exception, fast is better as far as most folks are concerned.

The Green Party has been pushing for (and getting) higher fuel taxes for years, and it hasn't changed to driving habits.

Then the taxes aren't high enough.

If people aren't cutting back on driving, they are cutting back in other places that you don't see.

They are cutting back on driving actually.
498.6 liters in 1990, 442.6 in 2000, 353.9 in 2005. This is per capita.

http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-292.html

In the US, it is 1,618.6 in 1990, 1,630.2 in 2000, and 1,539.0 in 2005.

Looks like price is a pretty good predictor of consumption to me.

[TjW]

To lower the prices of gas, can people go on a sort of strike, and not drive? It would take, what, two days? Walking isn't even that bad. Of course drive to work, but other than that, walk or ride a bike. Heck, it may even become a natural thing to some people who are overweight by making exercise fun.

That's a great idea! CO2 is also a problem facing the planet. Perhaps you could go on a sort of strike for a couple of days, and not breathe? I know, people who try that initially complain and fuss, but after awhile they seem to get used to it, and other people say they look very natural that way.

[The Shrike]

I've always commuted to work on a bicycle for at least 50% of my trips. I do this for exercise, but mostly to reduce my own carbon footprint and the amount of money I spend on gasoline.

We've made some sacrifices to do this. When we moved to a new state several years ago, we bought a modest home 1 mile from my office and just a few blocks from what would be the kids' school. As I thoroughly enjoy living out in the country, it was a real sacrifice to settle for living in a suburban neighborhood in town. But our reward for making that decision has been . . .
*haven't sat in traffic commuting to work or school for 7 years and counting
*modern American family of four (in a very auto-centric part of the world, i.e., not friendly to walkers) survived four years with one car
*spend a tiny fraction of my monthly income on gasoline

In addition to those bulleted items, we might even add that our decision to keep costs down with out modest home and low travel expenses has allowed my wife to be a stay-at-home mom, which has saved us a fortune in child care and provided many other benefits.

The point? There are costs and benefits to any decisions about how people spend their lives. I like saving money relative to my cohort of suburban American families, but maybe we'd be significantly happier with a place in the country. More to the point, our ability to make the decisions we've made for our family has stemmed from our unique circumstances, e.g., my one salary is enough for us to get by, decent housing close to my office was affordable for us, etc. Our decisions are certainly not appropriate for everyone.

So if you (the individual) want to spend less on gasoline, then do so. But do it for yourself, not as part of some collective inertia to lower gas prices.

[blutoski]

Yeah, this 'protest plan' has been circulating in some form or another for longer than I've been alive. In the 1960s it was flyers. When I was a teenager it was faxes. By the end of the '90s I was getting them via email.

Snopes covers an earlier strain: [Gas boycott will help lower gasoline prices. (http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/nogas.asp)]

They cover the main points there.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Yeah, this 'protest plan' has been circulating in some form or another for longer than I've been alive. In the 1960s it was flyers. When I was a teenager it was faxes. By the end of the '90s I was getting them via email.

Snopes covers an earlier strain: [Gas boycott will help lower gasoline prices. (http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/nogas.asp)]

They cover the main points there.

Whenever I get those emails, I always hit "Reply All" and ask "Are people really stupid enough to think this would work"? I get some interesting replies from the true believers.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

They are cutting back on driving actually.
498.6 liters in 1990, 442.6 in 2000, 353.9 in 2005. This is per capita.

http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-292.html

In the US, it is 1,618.6 in 1990, 1,630.2 in 2000, and 1,539.0 in 2005.

Looks like price is a pretty good predictor of consumption to me.

Have they cut back on driving or have cars got more fuel efficient?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Have they cut back on driving or have cars got more fuel efficient?

Does it matter? :)

[blutoski]

Does it matter? :)

I suspect Jaggy Bunnet was responding to this claim:



They are cutting back on driving actually.
498.6 liters in 1990, 442.6 in 2000, 353.9 in 2005. This is per capita.

http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-292.html

In the US, it is 1,618.6 in 1990, 1,630.2 in 2000, and 1,539.0 in 2005.

Looks like price is a pretty good predictor of consumption to me.

So, literally, it's not explicit evidence of reduced driving, but it is evidence of reduced fuel consumption.

But since the overall claim is that the commodity gasoline has price/demand elasticity, I would say that being this specific is maybe deliberately missing the point.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I suspect Jaggy Bunnet was responding to this claim:

So, literally, it's not explicit evidence of reduced driving, but it is evidence of reduced fuel consumption.

But since the overall claim is that the commodity gasoline has price/demand elasticity, I would say that being this specific is maybe deliberately missing the point.

Yeah, I understood what he(?) was responding to. The whole point of the OP is that by quitting driving, we'll use less gas, therefore lowering prices. If we have more efficient cars, we still would use less gas, therefore lowering prices. So it doesn't really matter how you get there. :)

The whole thing is nonsense anyhow.

[blutoski]

Yeah, I understood what he(?) was responding to. The whole point of the OP is that by quitting driving, we'll use less gas, therefore lowering prices. If we have more efficient cars, we still would use less gas, therefore lowering prices. So it doesn't really matter how you get there.

My impression is that the market shifts to more efficient cars in response to higher gas prices. I believe this is well established historically.

Additionally, a shift to more efficient cars can be achieved through legislative means: mandated efficiency for licensing, sales/annual taxes on less efficient cars, and other mechanisms.

Different countries mix their mechanisms based on their values.



The whole thing is nonsense anyhow.

Do you mean the boycott proposal? I would agree with that.

[Almo]

Whenever I get those emails, I always hit "Reply All" and ask "Are people really stupid enough to think this would work"? I get some interesting replies from the true believers.

That's not just a totally Scrut thing to do, it's really funny as well. :)

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Yeah, I understood what he(?)

Hang on - I'll check.

Yep. you're right enough, carry on

was responding to. The whole point of the OP is that by quitting driving, we'll use less gas, therefore lowering prices. If we have more efficient cars, we still would use less gas, therefore lowering prices. So it doesn't really matter how you get there. :)

The whole thing is nonsense anyhow.

In a way it does - if we are driving less because the price of gas has gone up, then it suggests demand may be more elastic.

If we are simply driving the same amount in more efficient cars (assuming we are paying the same for those cars as the ones they replace) then it suggests demand is less elastic.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Yeah, I understood what he(?) was responding to. The whole point of the OP is that by quitting driving, we'll use less gas, therefore lowering prices. If we have more efficient cars, we still would use less gas, therefore lowering prices. So it doesn't really matter how you get there. :)

The whole thing is nonsense anyhow.

Not at all. I highly encourage all other road users to participate in this boycott, as I'm sure it will achieve its aims.

In fact I will go further and say they should extend the boycott. I would recommend boycotting driving between the hours of 7:30 and 9am and 5 and 6:30pm, concentrating in particular on boycotting any driving during those hours between my house and my work.

[NewtonTrino]

lol
I drive a little Geo, and prices are still too high for me to drive to school each day I have class.

Maybe we can all learn to maintain our own cars and try making home-made fuel? Sounds exciting to me :rolleyes:

Have you considered maybe this is because you are a student? Most students can't afford a car at all let alone worrying about gas.

[Soapy Sam]

As prices go up, people will drive less. Don't need to convince anyone of anything, it will just happen.

If only there were a field of study that examined influences of that nature...


Depends how much and how fast they go up.
When I were a lad, back in't Pleistocene, a gallon cost ... I have no idea, because we didn't own a car, because we couldn't afford one, because my dad was only a draughtsman in a local authority architect's department.

Nowadays, people in a job like that have two cars and maybe one for the kids.

So (let me do the math...) that suggests cars and fuel are actually a lot cheaper than they were in 1961, when I was six.
They may be pricier than in 1991 when I was thirty six.

Computers are cheaper too. Guess what one of those cost in 1961.
How about 1861?

So which baseline do we pick?
How do we decide what's an unacceptable cost?
For me, coffee at $3.00 a cup is unaffordable. I don't do coffee shops any more. Diesel at $7.30 a (US) gallon is steep, but still beats walking. Especially as my knees get older.
We all have our price.
The fact (in the UK at least) is that blaming oil companies for oil prices is naive. A succession of governments, New Labour and Tory have happily reaped the North Sea's harvest and spent it on...stuff.
As for thinking leaving the car home for 48 hours will bother BP, You know what they just spent fixing a hole in the ground?
On the other hand, leaving the car at home makes sense for many reasons. None of which have anything to do with oil prices. Try it.

[JoelKatz]

Suggesting that people not drive for two days is much more likely to actually reduce gasoline usage than suggesting that people not buy gas for two days.

If people don't buy gas on a particular day or two, they're near certain to just buy gas right before that and/or right after that. Their actual usage is almost certain not to change very much.

If people actually don't drive for two days, certainly some shifting will still occur. People will buy groceries, say, before those two days or after those two days. But most likely they'll eliminate a significant fraction of driving they otherwise would have done or at least reduce it through chore consolidation and the like.

So this is slightly more plausible than the "don't buy gas on X day" boycotts. However, how this could be expected to conceivably lower the price of gas by even a noticeable amount or for any significant period of time is somewhat baffling to me.

The claims that the supply flow 'bump' would cost the oil companies huge amounts of money are not only implausible but the consequences are precisely the opposite of what's claimed. If it's a one time loss, the oil companies would pretty much just have to eat that loss, but they would certainly not lower their prices in response. If oil companies lost a lot of money due to unpredictable bumps in the supply chain due to repeating this tactic, they'd likely raise their prices to compensate for the increased costs of stockpiling.

[23_Tauri]

Maybe we can all learn to maintain our own cars and try making home-made fuel?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is illegal, at least in the UK.

[lydever91]

I don't understand you Merricans. As at the time of posting the average gas price for you guys is $3/Gal. We in the UK are paying £6 ($9.50).
So shut up, stop moaning and pay a realistic price for your petrol.

We complain because our economy cannot handle the price of gas like yours can. Asians are making $2/hr. because their economy can handle it, ours cannot. Hmmm, if only we had a President who cared more...

[Puppycow]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is illegal, at least in the UK.

Maintaining your own car?

In the US, I know a few people do use used restaurant grease or the like as fuel, and it's legal too. However, obviously everyone cannot do this.

http://www.greasecar.com/

http://www.greasecar.com/article/one-mans-trash-another-mans-fuel

[The Central Scrutinizer]

We complain because our economy cannot handle the price of gas like yours can. Asians are making $2/hr. because their economy can handle it, ours cannot. Hmmm, if only we had a President who cared more...

What country do you live in? I live in the US, and things are not like you describe at all.

[lydever91]

I live in the U.S. too, but location is key.

Gas will be up to about $4 in not even a month, and there are currently no jobs available to anyone except people that are Wal-Mart material.

[The True Scotsman]

...and there are currently no jobs available to anyone except people that are Wal-Mart material.

Yeah, well I like candy.

[23_Tauri]

Maintaining your own car?
No, I meant putting home made fuel in your car. Government types don't like us avoiding paying tax.

In the US, I know a few people do use used restaurant grease or the like as fuel, and it's legal too. However, obviously everyone cannot do this.


Thanks. And to answer my own question, I have now had time to google and found this news story:
How to run your car on chip oil (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7047128.stm), which tells me that in the UK you can now make a max of 2,500 litres of bio-diesel at home legally.

[KoihimeNakamura]

You live in the Tacoma area?

[IchabodPlain]

As prices go up, people will drive less. Don't need to convince anyone of anything, it will just happen.

If only there were a field of study that examined influences of that nature...

Overly simplistic - of course, using some extreme example might make it look that way. For instance if gas is free, I might drive my car to the mailbox in front of my house to pick up mail. If gas is $1,000 per gallon, people wouldn't use gas and instead substitute other technologies (electric cars for all!).

The real question is what is the rate of change in the inverse relationship between the price of gas and consumption. So, how much less do people drive for every dollar (or more accurately, .10¢ or .01¢) a gallon of gas rises. For that, I don't think you'll see much change initially because gasoline has the characteristic of being inelastic, meaning people must use it, even taking into account realistic variations. As I said before, if the variations are wild (say $1,000 per gallon), people will look to other technologies which most closely resemble gasoline powered vehicles (i.e. electric cars).

I don't understand you Merricans. As at the time of posting the average gas price for you guys is $3/Gal. We in the UK are paying £6 ($9.50).
So shut up, stop moaning and pay a realistic price for your petrol.

I guess it's a cause and effect situation. By and large, America is less densely populated than most European countries and because of this, we have to drive more (I live in Orlando and though it's a big city, no rail and a crappy bus system).

Of course you could also argue that because America has enjoyed low fuel prices, we've been able to build less densely. Which came first? Probably a mix of both - Florida, for instance, was developed well after the automobile (and air conditioner) became popular, and so was designed with it in mind and because of fuel prices, we've had little reason to change.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I live in the U.S. too, but location is key.

Gas will be up to about $4 in not even a month, and there are currently no jobs available to anyone except people that are Wal-Mart material.

So you'll never be unemployed.

[WildCat]

To lower the prices of gas, can people go on a sort of strike, and not drive? It would take, what, two days? Walking isn't even that bad. Of course drive to work, but other than that, walk or ride a bike. Heck, it may even become a natural thing to some people who are overweight by making exercise fun.
I agree! Everyone else but me should walk or ride a bike to work. :)