The Marriage of Minds - 1243 / 343 / 567

[Iacchus]

I realize I'm being a bit redundant in my post here, but I just thought I should reiterate the symmetry that exists between the numbers 1 though 7, as well as the inherent synchronicity involved with the Book of Revelation. From the thread, Split Brain (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36937) ...


Originally posted by Iacchus

So, would it be fair to say that men are left-brain oriented and women are right-brain oriented? And that this is in fact why we have two sides to the brain?

Whereas when the masculine (1) versus feminine side (2) -- the man himself (12) -- is conjoined to the the feminine (4) versus masculine side (3) -- the woman herself (43) -- you have the bridegroom (5) and the bride (6) conjoined in marriage (7).

And in case you don't understand the significance of the numbers here, they also correspond to the man and the woman's parents or, the "in-laws" ... in conjunction with the bridegroom (5-12) and the bride (6-43) and the marriage (7-343).

1) The man's father.
2) The man's mother.
3) The woman's father.
4) The woman's mother.

5) The bridegroom.
6) The bride.
7) The marriage.

While here it should be noted that the man assumes the role of the woman's father in the relationship (3), and the woman assumes the role of the man's mother in the relationship (2), all of which is illustrated by the numbers 32 and 23 -- which, when "added" -- 320 + 023 -- equals 343 -- which, is 7 x 7 x 7.

Also, did you know that the woman clothed with the sun in Revelation 12 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?language=English&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+12) which, signifies The Advent of the New Church -- i.e., the relationship (7-343) between God the Husband (5/12) and the Church which is the Wife (6/43) -- occurs in the 43rd month following the testimony of the Two Witnesses in Revelation 11 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?language=English&version=KJV&passage=Revelation+11)?

Hmm ... There almost seems to be a sense of synchronicity to the whole thing now doesn't there? Perhaps the sense of synchronicity experienced between two minds?

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Iacchus
I realize I'm being a bit redundant in my post here, but I just thought I should reiterate the symmetry that exists between the numbers 1 though 7, as well as the inherent synchronicity involved with the Book of Revelation. From the thread, Split Brain (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36937) ...

[snip rest]



Wow. This is the best argument I have heard so far against gay marriage.

On the other hand 1243 (A243) is a monster O8 hand in a loose game. I'd suggest a limp-reraise from early position and a raise from late position, especially if the ace is suited.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Suddenly

Wow. This is the best argument I have heard so far against gay marriage.Not so much that as an argument in favor of heterosexuality. Which isn't to say aberations of nature don't exist, because they do. However, I don't think it's right to base everything on such aberations. Do you?


On the other hand 1243 (A243) is a monster O8 hand in a loose game. I'd suggest a limp-reraise from early position and a raise from late position, especially if the ace is suited. So, you're not at least willing to admit the relationship between the numbers here?

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Not so much that as an argument in favor of heterosexuality. Which isn't to say aberations of nature don't exist, because they do. However, I don't think it's right to base everything on such aberations. Do you?

I'm just saying this argument is as good as any as far as it's basis in reality. Or lack thereof.

Also, I favor all "aberations" of nature. I like things like elevators, cars, the internet, artificial limbs, modern medicine, bridges, and the like. F*ck nature. If you ever see me outside without a golf club I'm likely looking for a door to get back inside...


So, you're not at least willing to admit the relationship between the numbers here?

There is a relationship. Any low flop makes 1243 a lock for the low while free-rolling for the high. A good flop would be something like 567 with the turn and river being an A and a 2. You could get a lot of action from A2XX and wind up scooping the pot anyway, with the nut low and moron straight.

So, numbers do affect my life, at least when they are printed on little pieces of cardboard and the money is up.

I'm also a psychic. I can read the numbers and symbols on those pieces of cardboard sight unseen. Like last week two young guys raised and reraised from the start in a hand of texas holdem. An older guy called the raises reluctantly at first, and then with more enthusiasm, and then reluctantly again when the board read: 56688. I knew young guy #1 had AA, young guy #2 had KK and the older guy had 55. I announced my conclusion to others at the table before the hands were revealed, and I was correct!! Therefore I am psychic!!!

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Suddenly
Like last week two young guys raised and reraised from the start in a hand of texas holdem. An older guy called the raises reluctantly at first, and then with more enthusiasm, and then reluctantly again when the board read: 56688. I knew young guy #1 had AA, young guy #2 had KK and the older guy had 55. I announced my conclusion to others at the table before the hands were revealed, and I was correct!! Therefore I am psychic!!!

What, do you play with amateurs ? My friends and I practice with polygraphs so that no sign of emotion is ever allowed to leak out. Those who win don't even smile until they get back home.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by El Greco


What, do you play with amateurs ? My friends and I practice with polygraphs so that no sign of emotion is ever allowed to leak out. Those who win don't even smile until they get back home.

Doesn't matter!! My r00ling sooper seekrit l33t r33ding skillz will defeat such sad countermeasures.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Suddenly

I'm just saying this argument is as good as any as far as it's basis in reality. Or lack thereof.

Also, I favor all "aberations" of nature. I like things like elevators, cars, the internet, artificial limbs, modern medicine, bridges, and the like. F*ck nature. If you ever see me outside without a golf club I'm likely looking for a door to get back inside... What are you saying homosexuality is more natural than man's unnatural nature towards nature? :p And why is that?


There is a relationship. Any low flop makes 1243 a lock for the low while free-rolling for the high. A good flop would be something like 567 with the turn and river being an A and a 2. You could get a lot of action from A2XX and wind up scooping the pot anyway, with the nut low and moron straight.

So, numbers do affect my life, at least when they are printed on little pieces of cardboard and the money is up.

I'm also a psychic. I can read the numbers and symbols on those pieces of cardboard sight unseen. Like last week two young guys raised and reraised from the start in a hand of texas holdem. An older guy called the raises reluctantly at first, and then with more enthusiasm, and then reluctantly again when the board read: 56688. I knew young guy #1 had AA, young guy #2 had KK and the older guy had 55. I announced my conclusion to others at the table before the hands were revealed, and I was correct!! Therefore I am psychic!!! So, can you tell me what mumbo jumbo means?

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Suddenly
Doesn't matter!! My r00ling sooper seekrit l33t r33ding skillz will defeat such sad countermeasures.

Interesting... You should show us your skills sometime...

PS: Bring a lot of money with you - we don't take checks

[toddjh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
What are you saying homosexuality is more natural than man's unnatural nature towards nature? :p And why is that?

No, I think he's saying that sticking with what's "natural" is usually not as good as people think. Historically, there has been a direct correlation between our quality of life and our departure from our species' "natural" place in the world.

Jeremy

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Iacchus
What are you saying homosexuality is more natural than man's unnatural nature towards nature? :p And why is that? Nope, I'm saying nature is not by defintion a good thing, and in fact assuming the opposite is usually a good idea. I think people that in all circumstances that "nature=good" are suckers for marketing.


So, can you tell me what mumbo jumbo means?

It means what it says. Numbers are useful if I am building a bridge or taking El Greco and his friends' money in a pot limit omaha game. However, three-bong-hit theories that completely subjective numerical manipulation simply stand to show the proponent has too much time on his or her hands...

As far as the psychic thing goes, it means that what may seem magical to some who don't understand is mundane to those that do. I've been accused of being psychic, or even being a cheat because I can often, based on an opposing players betting patterns and mannerisms, name the hand that player holds. In fact, I've known good players who thought they were psychic when in reality they were making subtle judgements based on real data. Doyle Brunson once thought he may have ESP type powers, but being a smart guy Doyle realized that he was making judgments based on data without even thinking about it as he had seen so many situations so many times. Instead of an ordered internal thought process he would just "realize" what the other player was holding.

Likewise with this numerology. I've seen it done before, I'm aware someone can take any set of numbers and try to find the deeper hidden meeting. I've done it before (once I did it to pick up a girl in college), and I know what is going on. It's been explained to you in roughly every thread you start, but you don't care to listen for whatever reason. You lack Doyle's insight and do not realize that the patterns are always there, as long as you look carefully enough or manipulate the numbers enough. It is a parlor trick, no more important or meaningful on a spiritual plane than my knowing what cards El Greco is holding...

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by toddjh

No, I think he's saying that sticking with what's "natural" is usually not as good as people think. Historically, there has been a direct correlation between our quality of life and our departure from our species' "natural" place in the world.

Jeremy What are suggesting man doesn't live in harmony with nature? In which case I would have to agree. ;) So, can you site any other creatures, besides man, which are predisposed to doing this?

[toddjh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
What are suggesting man doesn't live in harmony with nature?

No. I don't think we have any choice but to live in harmony with nature, since nature is the only thing that I know for sure exists. Rather, I think that when most people call something "natural," they just mean that it's been done for a long time, or doesn't use modern technology.

My point is that our intuitive concept of "natural" does not usually correlate with things that improve our quality of life. The fact that you own a computer shows that you agree to a certain extent. Thanks to our "unnatural" lifestyle, pretty much every person in America lives better than any king did a thousand years ago.

In which case I would have to agree. ;) So, can you site any other creatures, besides man, which are predisposed to doing this?

Sure. My cats sleep on top of my heating vents to stay warm. In fact, they seek out modern conveniences whenever possible; they simply lack the capacity to make them. For that matter, I didn't make my heating vents either -- I just took up residence in the house after moving some electrons representing "money" around and signing a lot of papers.

Jeremy

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Suddenly

Nope, I'm saying nature is not by defintion a good thing, and in fact assuming the opposite is usually a good idea. I think people that in all circumstances that "nature=good" are suckers for marketing.I don't dismiss this entirely. ;)


It means what it says. Numbers are useful if I am building a bridge or taking El Greco and his friends' money in a pot limit omaha game. However, three-bong-hit theories that completely subjective numerical manipulation simply stand to show the proponent has too much time on his or her hands...So, are you one of those people who don't believe in meaning, and that there's no purpose in life?


As far as the psychic thing goes, it means that what may seem magical to some who don't understand is mundane to those that do. I've been accused of being psychic, or even being a cheat because I can often, based on an opposing players betting patterns and mannerisms, name the hand that player holds. In fact, I've known good players who thought they were psychic when in reality they were making subtle judgements based on real data. Doyle Brunson once thought he may have ESP type powers, but being a smart guy Doyle realized that he was making judgments based on data without even thinking about it as he had seen so many situations so many times. Instead of an ordered internal thought process he would just "realize" what the other player was holding. That's amazing! ...


Likewise with this numerology. I've seen it done before, I'm aware someone can take any set of numbers and try to find the deeper hidden meeting. I've done it before (once I did it to pick up a girl in college), and I know what is going on. It's been explained to you in roughly every thread you start, but you don't care to listen for whatever reason. You lack Doyle's insight and do not realize that the patterns are always there, as long as you look carefully enough or manipulate the numbers enough. It is a parlor trick, no more important or meaningful on a spiritual plane than my knowing what cards El Greco is holding... I agree, it all begins with recognizing the patterns, which do exist. ;)

[toddjh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
I agree, it all begins with recognizing the patterns, which do exist. ;)

And it ends (or it's supposed to...) with realizing that there are so many potential patterns, and so many opportunities for them to occur, that the fact that we do find them so often is absolutely meaningless. Especially when you consider that humans are predisposed (perhaps even biologically) to look for them all the time.

Jeremy

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by toddjh

No. I don't think we have any choice but to live in harmony with nature, since nature is the only thing that I know for sure exists. Rather, I think that when most people call something "natural," they just mean that it's been done for a long time, or doesn't use modern technology.

My point is that our intuitive concept of "natural" does not usually correlate with things that improve our quality of life. The fact that you own a computer shows that you agree to a certain extent. Thanks to our "unnatural" lifestyle, pretty much every person in America lives better than any king did a thousand years ago. But the fact of the matter is that we're not living in accord with the natural world.


Sure. My cats sleep on top of my heating vents to stay warm. In fact, they seek out modern conveniences whenever possible; they simply lack the capacity to make them. For that matter, I didn't make my heating vents either -- I just took up residence in the house after moving some electrons representing "money" around and signing a lot of papers.

Jeremy Yeah, the whole thing is about getting nature to succumb to our every convenience now isn't it? And there's no denying that this is what we've done. ;)

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by toddjh

And it ends (or it's supposed to...) with realizing that there are so many potential patterns, and so many opportunities for them to occur, that the fact that we do find them so often is absolutely meaningless. Especially when you consider that humans are predisposed (perhaps even biologically) to look for them all the time.

Jeremy Sort of like looking at hieroglyphics without a Rosetta stone, right? :)

[toddjh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
But the fact of the matter is that we're not living in accord with the natural world.

Can you point out one instance in which we're not subject to nature in every way? If we survive, we're doing so in accordance with nature. If we die off, we're doing the same. You make it sound like the universe has some kind of interest in our survival.

Yeah, the whole thing is about getting nature to succumb to our every convenience. And there's no denying that this is what we've done. ;)

I deny it. Nature isn't an entity that can be twisted or distorted; it's simply the system in which things exist. We, as a species, have learned to study that system and take advantage of it to a certain extent. Again, you sound as if nature has some inherent desire for things to go a certain way, and that we're somehow going against that.

Jeremy

[toddjh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Sort of like looking at hieroglyphics without a Rosetta stone, right? :)

More like looking at bird tracks in sand and trying to figure out what language they are.

I'm sure others have already asked you this, but I'll add my voice to theirs. Use your numerology to show something that someone doesn't already know, believe, or suspect. Give us some genuinely new information, and we'll be more willing to consider that this stuff isn't just mental masturbation.

Jeremy

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by toddjh

Can you point out one instance in which we're not subject to nature in every way? If we survive, we're doing so in accordance with nature. If we die off, we're doing the same. You make it sound like the universe has some kind of interest in our survival. Oh, there's no denying that nature is our mother, and yet that isn't to say it's not possible to rape and brutalize her. Are you suggesting this is natural?


I deny it. Nature isn't an entity that can be twisted or distorted; it's simply the system in which things exist. We, as a species, have learned to study that system and take advantage of it to a certain extent. Again, you sound as if nature has some inherent desire for things to go a certain way, and that we're somehow going against that.

Jeremy If we choose to treat our mother like a whore then I guess that's our business.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Sort of like looking at hieroglyphics without a Rosetta stone, right? :)

More like looking with an infinite amount of Rosetta stones leading to an infinite number of different translations. Thus, no set translation has meaning, as it is the simple result of a arbitrary choice whose only meaning is that it is chosen.

The mind's ability to spot patterns and make connections is the rosetta stone, but one that can lead to an infinite number of conclusions and that can be manipulated in the direction one wants to go. It is really ho-hum once you do it for a while. At least it is for most people...

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by toddjh

More like looking at bird tracks in sand and trying to figure out what language they are.

I'm sure others have already asked you this, but I'll add my voice to theirs. Use your numerology to show something that someone doesn't already know, believe, or suspect. Give us some genuinely new information, and we'll be more willing to consider that this stuff isn't just mental masturbation.

Jeremy Yep, "Here's our offer, take it leave it." I do believe I've found the trolls under the bridge ... ;)

[toddjh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Oh, there's no denying that nature is our mother, and yet that isn't to say it's not possible to rape and brutalize her. Are you suggesting this is natural?

More anthropomorphizing en route to straw man. Why do you think that nature "minds" anything we do? What does it mean to "rape and brutalize" nature? Did nature "rape and brutalize" itself during all those mass extinctions which took place time and time again millions of years before we even existed?

We're finding evidence that Mars was once a much more conducive place to life, and that it then became cold, dry, and mostly airless. Even if we do completely screw things up for ourselves (and I'm certainly not convinced we will), we're not doing anything that hasn't happened, probably countless times, with no human intervention at all. I see no evidence that nature gives a damn either way.

Jeremy

[toddjh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Yep, "Here's our offer, take it leave it." I do believe I've found the trolls under the bridge ... ;)

*shrug* You're the one trying to convince us. If you don't want to make an effort, then feel free to waste your time with all the numerology you want.

Jeremy

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by toddjh

More anthropomorphizing en route to straw man. Why do you think that nature "minds" anything we do? What does it mean to "rape and brutalize" nature? Did nature "rape and brutalize" itself during all those mass extinctions which took place time and time again millions of years before we even existed?

We're finding evidence that Mars was once a much more conducive place to life, and that it then became cold, dry, and mostly airless. Even if we do completely screw things up for ourselves (and I'm certainly not convinced we will), we're not doing anything that hasn't happened, probably countless times, with no human intervention at all. I see no evidence that nature gives a damn either way.

Jeremy Anyone see the ostriches go by? Or, was it a kangaroo! :D

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by toddjh

*shrug* You're the one trying to convince us. If you don't want to make an effort, then feel free to waste your time with all the numerology you want.

Jeremy Really? All I did was ask if you could recognize the pattern in the numbers I brought up? Or, perhaps I wasn't being that clear. Sorry ...

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Really? All I did was ask if you could recognize the pattern in the numbers I brought up? Or, perhaps I wasn't being that clear. Sorry ...

No, no. We recognize the pattern. What we would like you to make more clear is the answer to the following:


SO WHAT?

Why should we care about the patterns. What do they tell us about the universe that we do not already know?

I mean, I figured out that I can identify patterns in anything and connect them to other things as long as I look hard enough. Why are the ones you see so important that you feel you must explain them? Is it you think they are cool? Do they explain something important? What is it?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Suddenly

More like looking with an infinite amount of Rosetta stones leading to an infinite number of different translations. Thus, no set translation has meaning, as it is the simple result of a arbitrary choice whose only meaning is that it is chosen.

The mind's ability to spot patterns and make connections is the rosetta stone, but one that can lead to an infinite number of conclusions and that can be manipulated in the direction one wants to go. It is really ho-hum once you do it for a while. At least it is for most people... Unless of course you happen to have stroke of dumb luck. Hey, I'm not forcing you to believe anything. Believe what you want to believe. :)

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Suddenly

No, no. We recognize the pattern. What we would like you to make more clear is the answer to the following:

SO WHAT?

Why should we care about the patterns. What do they tell us about the universe that we do not already know?

I mean, I figured out that I can identify patterns in anything and connect them to other things as long as I look hard enough. Why are the ones you see so important that you feel you must explain them? Is it you think they are cool? Do they explain something important? What is it? And just before I leave, let me ask you this? What do you mean be "we?" What do you got a mouse next to your keyboard or something! :D

[toddjh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
And just before I leave, let me ask you this? What do you mean be "we?" What do you got a mouse next to your keyboard or something! :D

I think he is fair in speaking for a large majority of the posters here. And, just in case you dispute that, take it to mean him and me. :P

Jeremy

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by toddjh

I think he is fair in speaking for a large majority of the posters here. And, just in case you dispute that, take it to mean him and me. :P

Jeremy Yeah, but what would be the point in you people hanging out here if you weren't waiting for someone like me to come along? Hmm ... do I detect a drop of drool at the corner of your mouth?

Trolls! ... :D

[toddjh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Yeah, but what would be the point in you people hanging out here if you weren't waiting for someone like me to come along? Hmm ... do I detect a drop of drool at the corner of your mouth?

Trolls! ... :D

Sure, I admit my guilty pleasure in debating crackpots. But usually, I'm here because people have so many different takes on current events. It's interesting.

Also, I think you misunderstand what trolls are. Trolls lead with an inflammatory comment in the hopes of stirring up argument for its own sake, and the label usually carries the implication that they don't even believe the position they are taking in the first place. Since the leading comments are yours, well, take from that what you will.

Jeremy

[Silicon]

3,

83883 329292 2399-5 34934789 23439.


92349023 39 99200?

4 92388 727 728! (2837 38892 848;) )


2399 23988


-238907

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by toddjh

Sure, I admit my guilty pleasure in debating crackpots. But usually, I'm here because people have so many different takes on current events. It's interesting.This is all assuming I'm a crackpot that is. ;)


Also, I think you misunderstand what trolls are. Trolls lead with an inflammatory comment in the hopes of stirring up argument for its own sake, and the label usually carries the implication that they don't even believe the position they are taking in the first place. And yet I'm somehow reminded of those gnarly looking creatures which lie in wait under bridges just waiting to ambush ... sort of like a rites of passage thing.


Since the leading comments are yours, well, take from that what you will.

Jeremy And what would you call this post which is just above mine? Nothing inflammatory about this one right? No hint of mockery or ridicule? Of course it must be justifiable since it only requires the assumption that I'm crackpot. While I'm sure if I had walked away after the first couple of posts, and didn't get back for 24 hours, there would be whole slew of posts just like this one waiting for me when I got back, right? Please, tell me it aint so! ...

Nevermind, I'm not requiring the impossible here. :p

[Iacchus]

Oh and another thing, when you take a look at the original post -- which, is fairly well written I might add -- you can see how easily things get degraded around this forum. ;)

And then you have to ask, what does the whole rest of the thread have to do with it? ... Hey, not much!

[toddjh]

Originally posted by Iacchus
This is all assuming I'm a crackpot that is. ;)

It's not an assumption, it's a provisional conclusion that is consistent with all the available data: bizarre claims about the supernatural, no willingness to back them up with useful information, appeals to logical fallacies and poor understanding of probability. The case is convincing enough that the ball is in your court to show that what you say has any legitmacy. To be fair, I should say I am undecided regarding whether you are a crackpot or a simple troll, as you seem to possess some elements of both.

And what would you call this post which is just above mine? Nothing inflammatory about this one right? No hint of mockery or ridicule?

I don't know what to think of it. Assuming we're talking about the same message, it's in a numeric code I haven't bothered looking at yet. Your original post, on the other hand, has a clear meaning that can be easily dismissed, and has been by many people with a lot more experience with mathematics than yourself.

Anyway, this can get old real fast. You've failed to convince me and it's clear no one's going to convince you. I'm confident enough in others' ability to see your reasoning for what it is that I don't think it really needs any refutation, so unless there's something you need from me, I think I'll bow out.

Jeremy

[Iacchus]

The acceptance of an idea begins with the acceptance of its plausibility. And thus far I have witnessed very few people on this forum who are willing to at least consider it. Which is fine, because I really didn't expect much more than that. ;)

As for me being a troll or a crackpot, I am a skeptic in my own right, and I do know what I've witnessed here. So, if that spells out the nature of my irreverence towards you or anyone else, then so be it! Have you noticed that no else is lining up to take any cheap shots? (as it was initially). And neither did I come here to justify my beliefs to anyone.

By the way, I realize I'm going to have a hard time proving these things to anyone -- which, is why for the most part I don't bother -- but that doesn't mean it's without merit. And this is where you've got me all wrong!

It's so much easier to cultivate the obvious now isn't it? And so much easier to cultivate the innuendo when we don't have the means to grapple with something. Which, is another reason why I don't take the whole thing so seriously. What's the point in banging your head against the wall, right? ;)

[Zep]

You can find patterns ANYWHERE if you look hard enough and with enough unfetterred imagination.

For example, what does this look like to you, Iacchus? A bunny-rabbit, perchance?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Zep

You can find patterns ANYWHERE if you look hard enough and with enough unfetterred imagination.

For example, what does this look like to you, Iacchus? A bunny-rabbit, perchance? Either that or Toto. :D

By the way, it's how the pattern is impressed upon your imagination that determines what you do with it. Imagination by itself -- i.e., without some form of discipline -- simply won't cut it.

[Zep]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Either that or Toto. :D

By the way, it's how the pattern is impressed upon your imagination that determines what you do with it. Imagination by itself -- i.e., without some form of discipline -- simply won't cut it. Rubbish. You agree that you recognised a shape because YOU HAD SEEN THAT SHAPE BEFORE! It is something you already know about beforehand and are quite familiar with. In other cultures that don't have rabbits as a common sighting in life or in books (and that's not many re rabbits), this cloud looks like...well, just a cloud.

The strength of this desire for people to find these shapes and cling to them can be demostrated by asking you to look at this cloud and try NOT to see the bunny (or Toto). You will find it takes concious effort to do so (or you have to use tricks like turning the picture upside-down), because you are fighting your brain's desire to fixate on that known shape.

Now go back to your numerology with this newfound knowledge - that your brain is subconciously LOOKING for patterns in the numbers, EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE THERE AT ALL. Question: How would YOU eliminate that effect in your research?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Zep
Rubbish. You agree that you recognised a shape because YOU HAD SEEN THAT SHAPE BEFORE! It is something you already know about beforehand and are quite familiar with. In other cultures that don't have rabbits as a common sighting in life or in books (and that's not many re rabbits), this cloud looks like...well, just a cloud.

The strength of this desire for people to find these shapes and cling to them can be demostrated by asking you to look at this cloud and try NOT to see the bunny (or Toto). You will find it takes concious effort to do so (or you have to use tricks like turning the picture upside-down), because you are fighting your brain's desire to fixate on that known shape.

Now go back to your numerology with this newfound knowledge - that your brain is subconciously LOOKING for patterns in the numbers, EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE THERE AT ALL. Question: How would YOU eliminate that effect in your research? Now if you only left out the part about the rubbish, it might have triggered a different response in me. But you see both my conscious mind and, my subconscious mind know better. :p

[Zep]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Now if you only left out the part about the rubbish, it might have triggered a different response in me. But you see both my conscious mind and, my subconscious mind know better. :p So brittle are you. But do you have any intelligent response?

What I have said is demonstrably true (and has been for years). There are even credible hypotheses as to why this exists. It applies directly to your notions about finding meaningfulness in the patterns of numbers everywhere. Others do the same with the patterns in the arrangements of stars (they are called "constellations"), and call their divination techniques "astrology". Others cast shells, read animal entrails from sacrifice, study the flights of birds, read tarot cards, cast I-Ching, etc, etc.

Why is numerology any different or any more relevant or rational than any of these techniques?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Zep

So brittle are you. But do you have any intelligent response?

What I have said is demonstrably true (and has been for years). There are even credible hypotheses as to why this exists. It applies directly to your notions about finding meaningfulness in the patterns of numbers everywhere. Others do the same with the patterns in the arrangements of stars (they are called "constellations"), and call their divination techniques "astrology". Others cast shells, read animal entrails from sacrifice, study the flights of birds, read tarot cards, cast I-Ching, etc, etc.

Why is numerology any different or any more relevant or rational than any of these techniques? And yet all these things do have some degree of merit. And, just like the difference between a good doctor and a quack -- although I'm inclined to believe most are quacks -- it all depends on who's practicing it.

By the way, I wouldn't recommend wearing concrete overshoes when you go swimming, otherwise you might be in for a big shock. ;)

[Zep]

Originally posted by Iacchus
And yet all these things do have some degree of merit. And, just like the difference between a good doctor and a quack -- although I'm inclined to believe most are quacks -- it all depends on who's practicing it.

By the way, I wouldn't recommend wearing concrete overshoes when you go swimming, otherwise you might be in for a big shock. ;) No intelligent answer, I see. Succumbed to the fantasy world of voodoo and juju. Right.

I wouldn't recommend using numerology to guide you through life, otherwise you might be mistaken for a sick, sad no-hoper who won't take responsibility for themselves and make their own decisions. :p

Iacchus, logic and knowledge is wasted on you. You are the weakest link. GOODBYE.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Zep

No intelligent answer, I see. Succumbed to the fantasy world of voodoo and juju. Right.

I wouldn't recommend using numerology to guide you through life, otherwise you might be mistaken for a sick, sad no-hoper who won't take responsibility for themselves and make their own decisions. :p

Iacchus, logic and knowledge is wasted on you. You are the weakest link. GOODBYE. And when you die and all this concreteness vanishes into thin air, what then Kemosabe?

[Zep]

Originally posted by Iacchus
And when you die and all this concreteness vanishes into thin air, what then Kemosabe? I shall be dead and couldn't care less. I have no problem with that. Not that I'm rushing to get there either. And what has the Lone Ranger and his mythical Indian sidekick with the made-up name got to do with this?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Zep

I shall be dead and couldn't care less. I have no problem with that. Not that I'm rushing to get there either. Could it be because you're dead already? In the sense that you've already resigned yourself to it and really don't care?

So what's going to happen to your precious logic when you die? Will it cease to exist too, as if it never existed? So what's the big deal then? Why place so much emphasis on it now?


And what has the Lone Ranger and his mythical Indian sidekick with the made-up name got to do with this? It tends to conjurs up the notion of someone who thinks they're in charge -- i.e., the master of his own destiny -- which is a laugh. ;)

[Zep]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Could it be because you're dead already? In the sense that you've already resigned yourself to it and really don't care?

So what's going to happen to your precious logic when you die? Will it cease to exist too, as if it never existed? So what's the big deal then? Why place so much emphasis on it now?


It tends to conjurs up the notion of someone who thinks they're in charge -- i.e., the master of his own destiny -- which is a laugh. ;) No, I'm not resigned to death at all. My life will probably not be long enough to complete all that I would like to do. And I thought I said that I was in no rush to complete my span alive and indeed I intend to live as long as possible, but you didn't read that bit, it appears.

So what's going to happen to my precious logic when I die? What a numbnutz question, so here's a simple answer for you: It will go on being logic regardless, and your numerology will go on being airey-fairey claptrap.

The emphasis on logic allows us to move forward with confidence in what we have tested rigorously. Unlike numerology and the like, which has proven to be a burden and a drag on the collective intelligence of humankind. Oh, sorry - let me make it simple for you. It's a waste of time and effort.

But if you think it does have any validity, I do know of a place you can get paid lots for proving it so... Chicken to try?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Zep

No, I'm not resigned to death at all. My life will probably not be long enough to complete all that I would like to do. And I thought I said that I was in no rush to complete my span alive and indeed I intend to live as long as possible, but you didn't read that bit, it appears.

So what's going to happen to my precious logic when I die? What a numbnutz question, so here's a simple answer for you: It will go on being logic regardless, and your numerology will go on being airey-fairey claptrap.

The emphasis on logic allows us to move forward with confidence in what we have tested rigorously. Unlike numerology and the like, which has proven to be a burden and a drag on the collective intelligence of humankind. Oh, sorry - let me make it simple for you. It's a waste of time and effort.

But if you think it does have any validity, I do know of a place you can get paid lots for proving it so... Chicken to try? Dust in the wind dude!

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Zep

But if you think it does have any validity, I do know of a place you can get paid lots for proving it so... Chicken to try? It's too bad money has to have anything to do with it though.

Oh, I died and gave birth to myself by the way. And I was torn to bloody awful shreds ... that is until my grandmother finally stepped in and reconstituted me later. Huh? ...

http://www.dionysus.org/x0501.html


P.S. I admit that much of this stuff can be attributable to a certain visualization technique I was working on, in terms of overlaying a pattern over the subconscious mind, but there's no way I could have predicted what actually happened. Do you know why, because there is a greater spiritual reality by which these things are coordinated if, in fact you understood that's what the subconscious mind represents. ;)

Also, it's these very patterns which allow for an existence of a spiritual reality (its structure) which, is why it's necessary for some people to do this I guess? ... Of course you might say it sounds a lot like the chicken and egg thing, and even dismiss the idea of a spiritual reality altogether. However, the system was already there before I came along, and I'm just merely feeding information back into it and measuring the results when something occurs. So I'm just the guy in the middle in that respect. Got it? ...

[Zep]

Originally posted by Iacchus
It's too bad money has to have anything to do with it though.

Oh, I died and gave birth to myself by the way. And I was torn to bloody awful shreds ... that is until my grandmother finally stepped in and reconstituted me later. Huh? ...

http://www.dionysus.org/x0501.html


P.S. I admit that much of this stuff can be attributable to a certain visualization technique I was working on, in terms of overlaying a pattern over the subconscious mind, but there's no way I could have predicted what actually happened. Do you know why, because there is a greater spiritual reality by which these things are coordinated if, in fact you understood that's what the subconscious mind represents. ;)

Also, it's these very patterns which allow for an existence of a spiritual reality (its structure) which, is why it's necessary for some people to do this I guess? ... Of course you might say it sounds a lot like the chicken and egg thing, and even dismiss the idea of a spiritual reality altogether. However, the system was already there before I came along, and I'm just merely feeding information back into it and measuring the results when something occurs. So I'm just the guy in the middle in that respect. Got it? ... Dust in the wind dude!

[Some Friggin Guy]

It's threads like this that make me realize there is no need for peyote in the world.


This is cheaper, legal, and has the same effect on my mind. Much like a koala crapping a rainbow inside it.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Zep

Dust in the wind dude! Yes, if in fact that's all we are? ;)

I kind of like the grub analogy better myself. You know, What do grubs know? ... Who spend their day munching off the Tree of Knowledge, and yet don't know the first thing about being a butterfly. However they continue to fill themselves up, this big sack of knowledge that they are, in the hopes that their grubstake will last. Oh well, sooner or later they'll be laid to rest in their little coffins, only to find out -- if, they're lucky enough -- that death is just a beginning!

[Some Friggin Guy]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Yes, if in fact that's all we are? ;)

I kind of like the grub analogy better myself. You know, What do grubs know? ... Who spend their day munching off the Tree of Knowledge, and yet don't know the first thing about being a butterfly. However they continue to fill themselves up, this big sack of knowledge that they are, in the hopes that their grubstake will last. Oh well, sooner or later they'll be laid to rest in their little coffins, only to find out -- if, they're lucky enough -- that death is just a beginning!

Interesting analogy, Iacchus. The only problem is that grubs will NEVER know what it is like to be a butterfly. Nor will a butterfly ever know what it would have been like to have been a grub.

Grubs are beetle larvae. :D

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy

Interesting analogy, Iacchus. The only problem is that grubs will NEVER know what it is like to be a butterfly. Nor will a butterfly ever know what it would have been like to have been a grub.

Grubs are beetle larvae. :D So quick to point out the errors of my way huh? Have you tried looking it up in the dictionary? It says a grub is the soft wormlike larva of an insect ... Which, is the exact same thing that it says about a caterpillar. Nowhere does it say anything about a beetle.

[Some Friggin Guy]

No hard feelings, Iacchus. I'm just feeling like being a literalist.

As far as spirituality goes, I don't agree with you. Doesn't mean I don't think you have some valid ideas. I'm certainly not going to tell you you're wrong.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy

No hard feelings, Iacchus. I'm just feeling like being a literalist.

As far as spirituality goes, I don't agree with you. Doesn't mean I don't think you have some valid ideas. I'm certainly not going to tell you you're wrong. Actually I was about to concede I might be wrong here, after looking up the definition of "grub" on Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=grub). And there it was, "The thick wormlike larva of certain beetles and other insects." And yet nowhere had I seen a caterpillar specifically called a grub. However, when I scrolled a little further down the page there it was, a quote from Shakespeare, "Yet your butterfly was a grub." So I guess it would seem we were both right, Okay?

[Agammamon]

Originally posted by Iacchus
. . .So, can you tell me what mumbo jumbo means?


Oh, this is even better than an endorsement by a chiropractor for satire.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Sort of like looking at hieroglyphics without a Rosetta stone, right? :)

Comes back to my unanswered question. You are comparing numbers to something that order and pattern was intentionally inserted to. So my question remains, who put order and pattern into numbers, and by what method was it acheived. (Otherwise, your comparison is meaningless, a better comparison would be throwing paperclips across the floor, and looking for revelations into the history of the egyptians).


See the difference? In both the rosseta stone, and the paperclips, patterns exists, but the question is, what is the source and reason for the patterns.

[RussDill]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Unless of course you happen to have stroke of dumb luck. Hey, I'm not forcing you to believe anything. Believe what you want to believe. :)

Are you familiar with "one time pad encryption" and what it would mean if someone said they broke the encryption by dumb luck?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Agammamon

Oh, this is even better than an endorsement by a chiropractor for satire. Actually by insinuating Suddenly's use of mumbo jumbo I was trying to expedite a reply towards mine which, is no doubt what he was trying to imply. :p

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RussDill

Comes back to my unanswered question. You are comparing numbers to something that order and pattern was intentionally inserted to. So my question remains, who put order and pattern into numbers, and by what method was it acheived. (Otherwise, your comparison is meaningless, a better comparison would be throwing paperclips across the floor, and looking for revelations into the history of the egyptians).


See the difference? In both the rosseta stone, and the paperclips, patterns exists, but the question is, what is the source and reason for the patterns. So let me ask you this. Do you know what a mathematical equation is? And how is it that we go about determining these exist?