Ebert on the pledge issue

[zakur]

Yes, Roger Ebert, the movie critic from the Chicago Sun-Times.

Public prayer fanatics borrow page from enemy's script (http://www.suntimes.com/output/eb-feature/cst-edt-ebert05.html)
...

This is really an argument between two kinds of prayer--vertical and horizontal. I don't have the slightest problem with vertical prayer. It is horizontal prayer that frightens me. Vertical prayer is private, directed upward toward heaven. It need not be spoken aloud, because God is a spirit and has no ears. Horizontal prayer must always be audible, because its purpose is not to be heard by God, but to be heard by fellow men standing within earshot.

To choose an example from football, when my team needs a field goal to win and I think, ''Please, dear God, let them make it!''--that is vertical prayer. When, before the game, a group of fans joins hands and ''voluntarily'' recites the Lord's Prayer--that is horizontal prayer. It serves one of two purposes: to encourage me to join them, or to make me feel excluded.

Although some of the horizontal devout are sincere, others use this prayer as a device of recruitment or intimidation. If you are conspicuous in your refusal to go along, they may even turn and pray while holding you directly in their sights.

. . .

Because our enemies are for the most part more enthusiastic about horizontal prayer than we are, and see absolutely no difference between church and state--indeed, want to make them the same--it is alarming to reflect that they may be having more success bringing us around to their point of view than we are at sticking to our own traditional American beliefs about freedom of religion. When Ashcroft and his enemies both begin their days with displays of their godliness, do we feel safer after they rise from their devotions?

[arcticpenguin]

Go, Roger!

[shanek]

So, then, I take it he gave the court's decision Two Thumbs Up??? :D

[corplinx]

Some good thoughts no less.

[subgenius]

Its the "holier than thou" syndrome. The same one's are the most hypocritical. Its an attempt to divert attention from their actions.
"Some people got religion
but I can never tell,
Cause I'm all right when I'm with em
But when I'm not I'm bound for hell."
---Chris Codish

[fishbob]

He is right. Now he joins Joe Bob Briggs as my favorite movie reviewers.

[harrije]

"(5) And when you (my desciples) pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I (Jesus) say to you, they have their reward. (6) But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." --Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 6 (RSV)

(at the risk of being accused of citing scripture for my own purposes)

[kourama]

Originally posted by harrije
"(5) And when you (my desciples) pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I (Jesus) say to you, they have their reward. (6) But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." --Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 6 (RSV)

(at the risk of being accused of citing scripture for my own purposes)

"(5) And when you (my desciples) poo, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to squat and poo in the sidewalks and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I (Jesus) say to you, they have their reward. (6) But when you poo, go into your room and shut the door, turn on the fan, and poo to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." --Gospel of Mathphew, Chapter 6 (RSV)

I hate religion.

[edit. damn html tags grrr]

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I hate religion.
----


That is the skeptical/atheist attitude that we've come to know, enjoy, and be very very afraid of.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Whodini
----
I hate religion.
----


That is the skeptical/atheist attitude that we've come to know, enjoy, and be very very afraid of.

And that's the " paint everyone who doesn't agree with me, with the same brush " attitude, that we have come to enjoy from you..

[kourama]

Originally posted by Whodini
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I hate religion.
----


That is the skeptical/atheist attitude that we've come to know, enjoy, and be very very afraid of.

Aw, relax. :rolleyes:

[zakur]

Originally posted by Diogenes
And that's the "paint everyone who doesn't agree with me, with the same brush" attitude, that we have come to enjoy from you.. Are you saying you actually enjoy Whodini?

[c0rbin]

Whodini.

I think religion is speculation. How do you know which religion is valid?

If all are equally valid, how do you reconcile one that contradicts another?

An extreme example would be a religion that requires human sacrfice and another like Buddhism?

[Scorpy]

Originally posted by harrije
"(5) And when you (my desciples) pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I (Jesus) say to you, they have their reward. (6) But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." --Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 6 (RSV)

(at the risk of being accused of citing scripture for my own purposes)


If you want to persuade Christians, quote Paul or Revelations or the Old Testament. You're just wasting your time quoting Jesus to them. He's the last person they listen to.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by harrije
"(5) And when you (my desciples) pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I (Jesus) say to you, they have their reward. (6) But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." --Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 6 (RSV)

(at the risk of being accused of citing scripture for my own purposes)
Its a wonderful quote and a great answer to those who want public prayer in government, including the White House.

Originally posted by zakur
Are you saying you actually enjoy Whodini?


C'mon Bookworm, ya luv me.

;)

corbin,


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I think religion is speculation. How do you know which religion is valid?
----


Valid in what sense?

And where did I say any religion(s) was valid?


----
An extreme example would be a religion that requires human sacrfice and another like Buddhism?
----


That's not even a question?

[HarryKeogh]

That's not even a question?
___

hey, that isn't either!

Originally posted by HarryKeogh
That's not even a question?
___

hey, that isn't either!


Hence the subtle humor.
:)

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Scorpy



If you want to persuade Christians, quote Paul or Revelations or the Old Testament. You're just wasting your time quoting Jesus to them. He's the last person they listen to.

LOL.

[jasonmccoy]

I am scared of religion!