action / inaction - another free will question

[Graham]

So, (for the entertainment value of teasing these things out rather than any desire / expectation for resolution of theological issues if you prefer), would anyone care to comment on the following:

Assuming an all-knowing, all-powerful biblical god.

In any given human situation, we are told, god will not intervene because to do so would violate the participants' "free will"

Let us say the situation has possible outcomes A and B (assuming a very simple situation, for the sake of argument).

If God does not intervene, the outcome will be A.

If God does intervene, the outcome will be B.

Because of the "free will clause" God has the power to intervene in the situation but does not.

In effect, however, by choosing not to intervene God has chosen outcome A as surely as if he had intervened and chosen outcome B because God has "executive power".

In conclusion, therefore, the concept of free will is meaningless in a system containing an all-powerful God since even a decision taken by a person's supposed free will is controled by the God-being.

Is there a flaw in this reasoning?

Graham

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Graham


In conclusion, therefore, the concept of free will is meaningless in a system containing an all-powerful God....

Graham


This says it all for me...

[chulbert]

If God does intervene, the outcome will be B.

A better way to state this might be, "If God does intervene, the outcome will probably be B." It leaves some wiggle room for God to be wrong.

By interacting with the world, He becomes part of the system he is trying to predict and this causes a paradox. He will, so to speak, have to predict his own predictions in a never-ending recursive spiral into absurdity.

This is assuming that even your all-knowing, all-powerful God must still be logically consistent. No round squares, please!

[Graham]

Originally posted by chulbert


A better way to state this might be, "If God does intervene, the outcome will probably be B." It leaves some wiggle room for God to be wrong.

By interacting with the world, He becomes part of the system he is trying to predict and this causes a paradox. He will, so to speak, have to predict his own predictions in a never-ending recursive spiral into absurdity.

This is assuming that even your all-knowing, all-powerful God must still be logically consistent. No round squares, please!

I am assuming that, being all-knowing, a God would know what the outcome is going to be. There is therefore no "wiggle room" in that respect.

I like how you have phrased your second paragraph, btw.

Graham

[Iacchus]

So if we die and go to heaven, what's the point in keeping God from intervening? Unless of course that allows us to change our minds about something -- if, in fact that's necessary? Or, have I missed the point of your post?

[Graham]

Originally posted by Iacchus
So if we die and go to heaven, what's the point in keeping God from intervening? Unless of course that allows us to change our minds about something -- if, in fact that's necessary? Or, have I missed the point of your post?

I don't know what you mean.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Graham
Is there a flaw in this reasoning?

I would say that the flaw is in the very concept of God "not intervening". Whatever happens is His will, whether He does a miracle or not.

[Graham]

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred


I would say that the flaw is in the very concept of God "not intervening". Whatever happens is His will, whether He does a miracle or not.

But that was my whole point :confused: