US Presidents MUST be lawyers or soldiers?

[MikeSun5]

I was speaking with a Palin supporter yesterday and I mentioned she'd never be elected President because she's never been a soldier, nor has she studied law. Imagine my surprise when he brought up Warren Harding as an example of someone who had a similar backround and became President! Of course I had to research that little gem, and it turns out that both of us were only partially correct...

1.George Washington (F) military
2.John Adams (F) lawyer
3.Thomas Jefferson (X) lawyer
4.James Madison (X) lawyer
5.James Monroe (X) lawyer/military
6.John Quincy Adams (X) lawyer
7.Andrew Jackson (D) lawyer/military
8.Martin Van Buren (D) lawyer
9.William Henry Harrison (W) military
10.John Tyler (I) lawyer/military
11.James Knox Polk (D) lawyer
12.Zachary Taylor (W) military
13.Millard Fillmore (W) lawyer/military
14.Franklin Pierce (D) laywer/military
15.James Buchanan (D) lawyer/military
16.Abraham Lincoln (R) lawyer/military
17.Andrew Johnson (R) statesman
18.Ulysses Simpson Grant (R) military
19.Rutherford Birchard Hayes (R) lawyer/military
20.James Abram Garfield (R) lawyer/military
21.Chester Alan Arthur (R) lawyer
22.Grover Cleveland (R) lawyer/military
23.Benjamin Harrison (R) lawyer/military
24.Grover Cleveland (D) lawyer
25.William McKinley (R) lawyer/military
26.Theodore Roosevelt (R) stateseman/military
27.William Howard Taft (R) lawyer
28.Woodrow Wilson (D) scholar
29.Warren Gamaliel Harding (R) journalist
30.Calvin Coolidge (R) lawyer
31.Herbert Clark Hoover (R) humanitarian
32.Franklin Delano Roosevelt (D) lawyer
33.Harry S. Truman (D) military
34.Dwight David Eisenhower (R) military
35.John Fitzgerald Kennedy (D) military
36.Lyndon Baines Johnson (D) military
37.Richard Milhous Nixon (R) lawyer/military
38.Gerald Rudolph Ford (R) military
39.James Earl Carter, Jr. (D) military
40.Ronald Wilson Reagan (R) military
41.George Herbert Walker Bush(R) military
42.William Jefferson Clinton (D) lawyer
43.George Walker Bush (R) businessman/military
44.Barack Hussein Obama (D) lawyer

(D)- Democrat (F)- Federalist
(I)- Independent (R)- Republican
(W)- Whig (X)- Democratic-Republican

....so that's 61% Military, 59% Lawyers, and 30% were both. Only four U.S. Presidents (9%) were neither lawyers or soldiers.
So Mrs. Palin has a chance after all... :rolleyes:

[HumanityBlues]

I was speaking with a Palin supporter yesterday and I mentioned she'd never be elected President because she's never been a soldier, nor has she studied law. Imagine my surprise when he brought up Warren Harding as an example of someone who had a similar backround and became President! Of course I had to research that little gem, and it turns out that both of us were only partially correct...

1.George Washington (F) military
2.John Adams (F) lawyer
3.Thomas Jefferson (X) lawyer
4.James Madison (X) lawyer
5.James Monroe (X) lawyer/military
6.John Quincy Adams (X) lawyer
7.Andrew Jackson (D) lawyer/military
8.Martin Van Buren (D) lawyer
9.William Henry Harrison (W) military
10.John Tyler (I) lawyer/military
11.James Knox Polk (D) lawyer
12.Zachary Taylor (W) military
13.Millard Fillmore (W) lawyer/military
14.Franklin Pierce (D) laywer/military
15.James Buchanan (D) lawyer/military
16.Abraham Lincoln (R) lawyer/military
17.Andrew Johnson (R) statesman
18.Ulysses Simpson Grant (R) military
19.Rutherford Birchard Hayes (R) lawyer/military
20.James Abram Garfield (R) lawyer/military
21.Chester Alan Arthur (R) lawyer
22.Grover Cleveland (R) lawyer/military
23.Benjamin Harrison (R) lawyer/military
24.Grover Cleveland (D) lawyer
25.William McKinley (R) lawyer/military
26.Theodore Roosevelt (R) stateseman/military
27.William Howard Taft (R) lawyer
28.Woodrow Wilson (D) scholar
29.Warren Gamaliel Harding (R) journalist
30.Calvin Coolidge (R) lawyer
31.Herbert Clark Hoover (R) humanitarian
32.Franklin Delano Roosevelt (D) lawyer
33.Harry S. Truman (D) military
34.Dwight David Eisenhower (R) military
35.John Fitzgerald Kennedy (D) military
36.Lyndon Baines Johnson (D) military
37.Richard Milhous Nixon (R) lawyer/military
38.Gerald Rudolph Ford (R) military
39.James Earl Carter, Jr. (D) military
40.Ronald Wilson Reagan (R) military
41.George Herbert Walker Bush(R) military
42.William Jefferson Clinton (D) lawyer
43.George Walker Bush (R) businessman/military
44.Barack Hussein Obama (D) lawyer

(D)- Democrat (F)- Federalist
(I)- Independent (R)- Republican
(W)- Whig (X)- Democratic-Republican

....so that's 61% Military, 59% Lawyers, and 30% were both. Only four U.S. Presidents (9%) were neither lawyers or soldiers.
So Mrs. Palin has a chance after all... :rolleyes:

It's an interesting question but, how many presidents were black before Obama? It seems that under your method and calculations, based on past white presidents, Obama had a zero chance of becoming president.

[MikeSun5]

It seems that under your method and calculations, based on past white presidents, Obama had a zero chance of becoming president.

"Method and calculations?" You mean facts? ;)

Either way... Obama's chance of becoming president didn't get past zero percent until probably the 21st century. How many black candidates did you see before that? Did I miss some?

[MG1962]

Wait George W Bush's military experience was.......what exactly?

[Puppycow]

Harding is considered by many historians to be one of the worst presidents ever.
In fact, the 4 who were neither a lawyer nor a military man are IMHO all among the worst presidents ever.

Johnson was impeached
Wilson got us involved in WW I
Hoover: need I say more?
Harding was a corrupt empty suit

ETA:
Apparently Historians like Wilson better than I do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_St ates

[casebro]

Wasn't it Stephen Douglas, who ran against Lincoln, black?

[HumanityBlues]

"Method and calculations?" You mean facts? ;)

Either way... Obama's chance of becoming president didn't get past zero percent until probably the 21st century. How many black candidates did you see before that? Did I miss some?

Al Sharpton, Alan Keyes and Jessie Jackson as far as I can remember.

I didn't mean "Facts" because the OP didn't mention that all past presidents have been white males. I meant that you could use the OP's same methodology using other facts which he/she did not mention in the first place is all.

[BobTheCoward]

Wait George W Bush's military experience was.......what exactly?

Served as a pilot in the Air National Guard.

[Puppycow]

Wasn't it Stephen Douglas, who ran against Lincoln, black?

No.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_A._Douglas

In fact, he was quite a racist according to Wikipedia.
Before and during the debates, Douglas repeatedly invoked racist rhetoric, claiming Lincoln was for black equality and saying at Galesburg that the authors of the Declaration of Independence did not intend to include blacks. "This Government was made by our fathers on the white basis . . . made by white men for the benefit of white men and their posterity forever," he said.[15] Lincoln pointedly denied Douglas' assertion that the Declaration of Independence did not include minorities.[16]

Much of the debate was about the redefinition of republicanism. Lincoln advocated equality of opportunity, arguing that individuals and society advanced together. Douglas, on the other hand, embraced a democratic doctrine that emphasized equality of all citizens (only whites were citizens), in which individual merit and social mobility was not a main goal.[17]

[hgc]

Served as a pilot in the Air National Guard.

Disputed. Let's go with AWOL. But he still have some connection to the military, I guess.

[Newtons Bit]

Disputed. Let's go with AWOL. But he still have some connection to the military, I guess.

Got some none-faked documents proving that? Record of a court martial? Perhaps a record of a dishonorable discharge? That's what they do with people who go AWOL, isn't it?

[ApolloGnomon]

Served as a pilot in the Air National Guard.

. . . for certain definitions of "served."

[MikeSun5]

. . . for certain definitions of "served."

True...

For the sake of the OP though, the amount of time served wasn't really the point. A few early presidents volunteered for militias and stuff, but I included them under the "military" title anyway.

G.W. certainly played his military service up, landing on an aircraft carrier in a flightsuit and whatnot, so I thought the data mining was appropriate.

[Meadmaker]

Wasn't it Stephen Douglas, who ran against Lincoln, black?

You are probably confusing him with Frederick Douglas, a 19th century black man who was prominent in the abolitionist movement, but did not run for President.

Stephen Douglas, defeated Abraham Lincoln in the Senate campaign of 1858. (or 1856? I think '58), and also ran for President in 1860. Stephen Douglas was white, and favored continuation of slavery.

[Damien Evans]

Harding is considered by many historians to be one of the worst presidents ever.
In fact, the 4 who were neither a lawyer nor a military man are IMHO all among the worst presidents ever.

Johnson was impeached
Wilson got us involved in WW I
Hoover: need I say more?
Harding was a corrupt empty suit

ETA:
Apparently Historians like Wilson better than I do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_St ates

Yeah, I was gonna say...

[hgc]

You are probably confusing him with Frederick Douglas, ...

You might be confusing Frederick Douglas with Frederick Douglass. ;)

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Wait George W Bush's military experience was.......what exactly?

He was in the Texas Air National Guard.

On his watch, not a single Mexican warplane entered American airspace.

[Brainster]

Al Sharpton, Alan Keyes and Jessie Jackson as far as I can remember.

Dick Gregory and Shirley Chisholm as well.

[thaiboxerken]

A large portion of the population have served in the military. Add lawyers to that and what would that compare to this presidency list?

[Undesired Walrus]

You are probably confusing him with Frederick Douglas, a 19th century black man who was prominent in the abolitionist movement, but did not run for President.


Ah but he did run for Vice President, albeit without his knowledge.

[lionking]

I would expect a large proportion of people interested in public policy and lawmaking would be lawyers.

[Undesired Walrus]

Jed Bartlet was an economist.

[Noztradamus]

I was speaking with a Palin supporter yesterday and I mentioned she'd never be elected President because she's never been a soldier, nor has she studied law. Imagine my surprise when he brought up Warren Harding as an example of someone who had a similar backround and became President! Of course I had to research that little gem, and it turns out that both of us were only partially correct...

1.George Washington (F) military
2.John Adams (F) lawyer
3.Thomas Jefferson (X) lawyer
4.James Madison (X) lawyer
5.James Monroe (X) lawyer/military
6.John Quincy Adams (X) lawyer
7.Andrew Jackson (D) lawyer/military
8.Martin Van Buren (D) lawyer
9.William Henry Harrison (W) military
10.John Tyler (I) lawyer/military
11.James Knox Polk (D) lawyer
12.Zachary Taylor (W) military
13.Millard Fillmore (W) lawyer/military
14.Franklin Pierce (D) laywer/military
15.James Buchanan (D) lawyer/military
16.Abraham Lincoln (R) lawyer/military
17.Andrew Johnson (R) statesman
18.Ulysses Simpson Grant (R) military
19.Rutherford Birchard Hayes (R) lawyer/military
20.James Abram Garfield (R) lawyer/military
21.Chester Alan Arthur (R) lawyer
22.Grover Cleveland (R) lawyer/military
23.Benjamin Harrison (R) lawyer/military
24.Grover Cleveland (D) lawyer
25.William McKinley (R) lawyer/military
26.Theodore Roosevelt (R) stateseman/military
27.William Howard Taft (R) lawyer
28.Woodrow Wilson (D) scholar
29.Warren Gamaliel Harding (R) journalist
30.Calvin Coolidge (R) lawyer
31.Herbert Clark Hoover (R) humanitarian
32.Franklin Delano Roosevelt (D) lawyer
33.Harry S. Truman (D) military
34.Dwight David Eisenhower (R) military
35.John Fitzgerald Kennedy (D) military
36.Lyndon Baines Johnson (D) military
37.Richard Milhous Nixon (R) lawyer/military
38.Gerald Rudolph Ford (R) military
39.James Earl Carter, Jr. (D) military
40.Ronald Wilson Reagan (R) military
41.George Herbert Walker Bush(R) military
42.William Jefferson Clinton (D) lawyer
43.George Walker Bush (R) businessman/military
44.Barack Hussein Obama (D) lawyer

(D)- Democrat (F)- Federalist
(I)- Independent (R)- Republican
(W)- Whig (X)- Democratic-Republican

....so that's 61% Military, 59% Lawyers, and 30% were both. Only four U.S. Presidents (9%) were neither lawyers or soldiers.
So Mrs. Palin has a chance after all... :rolleyes:

It's hard to see the military giving any relevant qualification below field-grade (O-4) rank ie Major or Lt Commander

In the 20th Century that would cut the "military men" down to McKinley (just marginally), Theodore Roosevelt, Truman. Eisenhower, Nixon, and Ford.

[Gawdzilla]

served as a pilot drunken dodger in the air national guard.

ftfy

[C_Felix]

Going off of the thread's title:
US Presidents MUST be lawyers of soldiers?

(This is a joke)
I guess this is in the part of Constitution with the "parents must be US citizens".

[TragicMonkey]

I think the sample is skewed because so much of America's early (and middle) history was full of warfare (there were always Indian wars going on, for example) and at the same time higher education wasn't nearly as common as it is today. The law was one of the few professions that required much education, and naturally education would be a boost to getting a party nomination. It's not like there were people running around in 1830 with masters degrees in political science.

[Ranb]

It's hard to see the military giving any relevant qualification below field-grade (O-4) rank ie Major or Lt Commander

If you think of the presidency as a popularity contest, then it is relevant. :)

Ranb

[hgc]

I think the sample is skewed because so much of America's early (and middle) history was full of warfare (there were always Indian wars going on, for example) and at the same time higher education wasn't nearly as common as it is today. The law was one of the few professions that required much education, and naturally education would be a boost to getting a party nomination. It's not like there were people running around in 1830 with masters degrees in political science.


True that. Obama is the first president too young for the draft era. Chances are better than ever that we will see non-military presidents.

[hud]

Reagan?

Assigned to "AAF Public Relations and subsequently to the 1st Motion Picture Unit" hardly qualifies him as a "soldier." He was exempted from active duty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan#Military_service

WWII is going to skew the numbers because the whole damn country was military, in one way or another. Many women were WAACs, for example.

I am not saying this as a criticism of Reagan, by the way.

[JoeTheJuggler]

"Method and calculations?" You mean facts? ;)

No, even though it was simple, you had a method that excluded a great many other criteria/characteristics.

What if you'd asked how many presidents served in Congress? How many presidents were state governors? How many presidents were Catholic?

Different method, different results.

[JoeTheJuggler]

He was in the Texas Air National Guard.

On his watch, not a single Mexican warplane entered American airspace.

On the other hand, he was doubtless responsible for quite a bit of Colombia's product entering the state.

[TragicMonkey]

On the other hand, he was doubtless responsible for quite a bit of Colombia's product entering the state.

Coffee, of course! Rich, delicious coffee! That goes up your nose and makes your brain tingle! Coffee!

[Spindrift]

He was in the Texas Air National Guard.

On his watch, not a single Mexican warplane entered American airspace.

Proof?

[JoeTheJuggler]

FWIW, the standard way of describing the 3 branches of the U.S. government is that the Legislative Branch makes the law, the Judiciary interprets the law, and the Executive enforces the law.

So, no surprise that the Chief Executive is often someone with legal and executive experience. But again, quite a few also have been state executives and federal legislators too.

Was there any difference in the early days (say the 18th century) between being a lawyer and being an educated statesman?

[Spindrift]

I was speaking with a Palin supporter yesterday and I mentioned she'd never be elected President because she's never been a soldier, nor has she studied law. Imagine my surprise when he brought up Warren Harding as an example of someone who had a similar backround and became President! Of course I had to research that little gem, and it turns out that both of us were only partially correct...

So they think comparing Sarah Palin to Warren Harding is a good thing?

[Alt+F4]

I was speaking with a Palin supporter yesterday and I mentioned she'd never be elected President because she's never been a soldier, nor has she studied law. Imagine my surprise when he brought up Warren Harding as an example of someone who had a similar backround and became President!

Yikes! Someone thinks that a comparison with Harding is a good thing for a political career.

[Alt+F4]

So they think comparing Sarah Palin to Warren Harding is a good thing?

We think alike! :D

[Ladewig]

I was speaking with a Palin supporter yesterday and I mentioned she'd never be elected President because she's never been a soldier, nor has she studied law.

Did you mean if she had been a medium to high ranking officer she would have a better understanding of leadership and if she had studied law she would have a better understanding of how to avoid logical fallacies? Or do you mean that the populace is too simply minded to understand that the roles and responsibilities of the office could be accomplished by someone not practiced in either?

If the latter, I am going to have to disagree. If we could wave a magic wand and change her resume to include both military service and a law degree AND every other statement she has ever made remains the same and every other decision she has made remained the same, I would still classify her as unelectable.

[Noztradamus]

If you think of the presidency as a popularity contest, then it is relevant. :)

Ranb

Well if it's Presidential Idol, then look for a tall man with nice hair - wins every time. In elections where an incumbent President was not running. McKinley was the last short winner (But he had the better hair). Martin van Buren was the last bad hair winner.

[dudalb]

In answer to the OP.
Nah, you can also be a sailor....Kennedy, Carter,(who was an Annapolis grad) Ford, Nixon and Bush Sr for instance were all in the Navy.
Bush Jr was in the Air Force, I guess, so you can also be an Airman...
No Marine has made it yet to the Oval Office.....

[Darth Rotor]

Wait George W Bush's military experience was.......what exactly?

He earned his wings as a fighter pilot and you didn't.

Next stupid question?

[MikeSun5]

I think the sample is skewed because so much of America's early (and middle) history was full of warfare (there were always Indian wars going on, for example) and at the same time higher education wasn't nearly as common as it is today. The law was one of the few professions that required much education, and naturally education would be a boost to getting a party nomination. It's not like there were people running around in 1830 with masters degrees in political science.

The sample is most definitely skewed by history, even though most ALL of America's history was full of warfare. ;) I'd be surprised to find a President who served an entire term while none of our military engaged in any kind of fighting. We love to fight. Always will. That's why, IMO, military service is always mentioned when listing a candidate's accolades. Nobody wants a leader who can't fight. (that last sentence is only partially sarcastic)

No, even though it was simple, you had a method that excluded a great many other criteria/characteristics.

What if you'd asked how many presidents served in Congress? How many presidents were state governors? How many presidents were Catholic?

Different method, different results.

...well, the "method" was in place in order to answer the question "How many Presidents were lawyers or soldiers?" Service in Congress, service as governor, or their religious affiliations didn't address my question.

Did you mean if she had been a medium to high ranking officer she would have a better understanding of leadership and if she had studied law she would have a better understanding of how to avoid logical fallacies? Or do you mean that the populace is too simply minded to understand that the roles and responsibilities of the office could be accomplished by someone not practiced in either?

My "solider or lawyer" response was somewhat tongue-in-cheek because most Palin supporters tend to ignore logical arguments. As far as your questions, I didn't "mean" either, but I do think that there are things that soldiers and lawyers can bring to a position requiring knowledge of leadership and lawmaking policies. Your second question kind of puts my thought process into clearer terms...

...on that note, I'm not even sure if I'm convinced that a President can do the job without certain qualifications. I guess the question now is what would be the absolute bare minimum of experience/education/etc. that would be acceptable in order to run the United States? College grad? Previous political office?

The OP kind of (unintentionally) began as a Palin-bash, but I just wonder if a degree in journalism plus a partial term as governor of a state with less than half the population of the county I live in would be enough to run this joint.

[dudalb]

He earned his wings as a fighter pilot and you didn't.

Next stupid question?

I am not a big fan of Dubya at all, but consider the sniping at his military record to be pretty petty.

[Whiplash]

Disputed. Let's go with AWOL. But he still have some connection to the military, I guess.

Got some none-faked documents proving that? Record of a court martial? Perhaps a record of a dishonorable discharge? That's what they do with people who go AWOL, isn't it?



*crickets*

[Ladewig]

...on that note, I'm not even sure if I'm convinced that a President can do the job without certain qualifications. I guess the question now is what would be the absolute bare minimum of experience/education/etc. that would be acceptable in order to run the United States? College grad? Previous political office?

I, personally don't need to see a college degree to consider someone qualified. I think I would insist on some experience in an executive branch of government - one has to know how to deal with budgets. I disliked many of R. Reagan's decisions, but I will not say he floundered or was in over his head. His 12 years as governor of a big state served him much more than being a first lieutenant making army films while stateside.

............

[geni]

Politicians need connections. Lawyers tend to move in the circles where such conections can be made. Their ah day job also gives them a better idea of how the system works than your average citizen.

They also have the ability to make their working hours more fexible than most. This is important when starting out in politics since it allows you to spend time dealing with the political stuff while still earning a living.

They have the abillity to drop in and out of their careers with less effort than it would take say an engineer. This lowers the risk involved with the first steps into politics (about the only other groups that can claim this are teachers and to an extent doctors).

So lawyers are in a better position to get into politics and once in have the skills and connections to rise faster.

The millitry stuff is probably a mix of the way US voters seem to like a millitry background combiened with enough conflict to make sure such people are not in short supply. Someone with a millitry pension is again in a better position to be politicaly active without earning a living and if they have paid attention they should have picked up a fair idea how the system works and a few contacts.

About the only other groups you might even expect to be represented are party PR men (essentially proffesional polticians) , Teachers and union officials.

[Ladewig]

About the only other groups you might even expect to be represented are party PR men (essentially proffesional polticians) , Teachers and union officials.

And actors and professional wrestlers.

[BeAChooser]

Harding is considered by many historians to be one of the worst presidents ever.

Well he may have been corrupt, but do you remember the recession of 1921? Probably not and that's likely due to Harding. It was an extremely sharp deflationary recession following World War I. Unemployment rose over 700% in one year (to nearly 12% according to one source). Production fell 23% and the stock market dropped 18%. Yet within two years, it was over, unemployment had returned to what was considered full employment and the economy was booming. What happened to make this possible? President Harding cut government spending by 40%, instead of massively increasing it. He lowered taxes and reduced regulation which helped America's entrepreneurs and capital create jobs and push the economy to recover. Harding's free market policies (and then Calvin Coolidge's) led to the Roaring Twenties, known for technological advances, women's rights, the explosion of the middle class, and some of the most rapid economic growth in American history. All of this without a stimulus. Too bad Obama is only corrupt and not a Harding. :D

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Wait George W Bush's military experience was.......what exactly?

Oh geeze, not this again.

He flew F-106's. How many hours in supersonic fighter jets have you logged? How many types are you rated for? Is the answer to either greater than zero?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

On his watch, not a single Mexican warplane entered American airspace.

If Russian planes based out of Cuba had tried something, Lt. Bush would have been on the first line of defense.

[BeAChooser]

He flew F-106's.

Actually, he flew F-102's. Far more dangerous.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0185.shtml

According to the Air Force Safety Center, the lifetime Class A accident rate for the F-102 was 13.69 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours, and the rate was especially high during the early years of the plane's service. ... snip ... Compared to the F-102's lifetime accident rate of 13.69, today's planes generally average around 4 mishaps per 100,000 hours. For example, compare the F-16 at 4.14, the F-15 at 2.47, the F-117 at 4.07, the S-3 at 2.6, and the F-18 at 4.9. Even the Marine Corps' AV-8B, regarded as the most dangerous aircraft in US service today, has a lifetime accident rate of only 11.44 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours. The F-102 claimed the lives of many pilots, including a number stationed at Ellington during Bush's tenure. Of the 875 F-102A production models that entered service, 259 were lost in accidents that killed 70 Air Force and ANG pilots.

[Mikemcc]

Wait George W Bush's military experience was.......what exactly?Going to Oxford University... ;)

[Spindrift]

Well he may have been corrupt, but do you remember the recession of 1921? Probably not and that's likely due to Harding. It was an extremely sharp deflationary recession following World War I. Unemployment rose over 700% in one year (to nearly 12% according to one source). Production fell 23% and the stock market dropped 18%. Yet within two years, it was over, unemployment had returned to what was considered full employment and the economy was booming. What happened to make this possible? President Harding cut government spending by 40%, instead of massively increasing it. He lowered taxes and reduced regulation which helped America's entrepreneurs and capital create jobs and push the economy to recover. Harding's free market policies (and then Calvin Coolidge's) led to the Roaring Twenties, known for technological advances, women's rights, the explosion of the middle class, and some of the most rapid economic growth in American history. All of this without a stimulus. Too bad Obama is only corrupt and not a Harding. :D
Don't forget the really good stuff: Prohibition, the rise of organized crime, xenophobic immigration laws, the repression of unions, the Teapot Dome and other scandals and that capstone to all the good times of the 1920's, the start of the Great Depression. All of that without a stimulus.

[BeAChooser]

Don't forget the really good stuff: Prohibition, the rise of organized crime, xenophobic immigration laws, the repression of unions, the Teapot Dome and other scandals and that capstone to all the good times of the 1920's, the start of the Great Depression. All of that without a stimulus.

Prohibition was the result of ill-considered do-gooding, much like modern day democrats and much of what they espouse. Harding essentially demonstrated no position on prohibition and went along for the ride. Coolidge personally opposed prohibition and said so. He said "any law that inspires disrespect for other laws - the good laws - is a bad law." And while he did his job to enforce the law, few federal initiatives with regards to enforcing the law occurred during his term.

The rise of organized crime was a direct result of prohibition.

"Xenophobic" isn't the word I'd use to describe the immigration laws of that era. The laws merely sought to preserve the distinctive American culture that had resulted from earlier European immigration and protect wages. Maybe we could do with a little more such legislation … unless we want to end up a mirror image of Mexico with all it's problems.

Perhaps union membership fell because people decided they didn't need them? Or perhaps they were "repressed" because of their many clear links to communists at the time? And by the way, it was Harding who freed Debs after years of incarceration.

Teapot Dome was a mess … one left by Harding (remember, I'm not defending him from charges of corruption) … but Coolidge cleaned it up. Coolidge also continued the smart policies of tax cuts and restrained government spending that Harding started … which is why the economy was so good in the 20s. Infact, as a result, between 1922 and 1929, the country experienced amazing prosperity. Real GNP grew at nearly 5% a year and unemployment fell from about 7% to 3%. And that happened despite the fact that in 1922 there was another sharp recession/depression (unemployment reached nearly 12%) and there was a 14 month long recession that began in 1926.

And the Great Depression? The blame for that lies squarely on Hoover and Roosevelt's shoulders … who turned an ordinary recession into a deep depression through high taxes, massive stimulus and government takeover of the private sector.

:D

[MikeSun5]

"Xenophobic" isn't the word I'd use to describe the immigration laws of that era. The laws merely sought to preserve the distinctive white American culture that had resulted from earlier European immigration and protect wages. Maybe we could do with a little more such legislation … unless we want to end up a mirror image of Mexico with all it's problems.

fixed that for ya. :)

[BeAChooser]

fixed that for ya. :)

Here's my response to you:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/print/255320 "Two Californias"

[Ladewig]

Prohibition was the result of ill-considered do-gooding, much like modern day democrats and much of what they espouse.

Riiiiiight. Because these days, its the right wing that wants to legalize marijuana and it's those damned do-gooding lefties that want to keep it outlawed by the nanny state.

[leftysergeant]

Got some none-faked documents proving that? Record of a court martial? Perhaps a record of a dishonorable discharge? That's what they do with people who go AWOL, isn't it?Got an OER to show that he wasn't just a useless toad in the road, a sorry excuse for an officer, more useful when he wasn't near the flight line, incapable of flying his airplane from San Antonio to Andrews without digging a smoking hole?

[MikeSun5]

Here's my response to you:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/print/255320 "Two Californias"

I see... so your worry that the US is going to end up like Mexico "with all its problems" stems from one angry white person's account of driving through a 20-mile section of California. Okay. Duly noted.

I would point out that ramshackle housing and poverty-like conditions are not uncommon in our country. Conditions which can many times be found on reservations that are home to the ONLY non-immigrants in this country.

I live in South Florida, where there are MANY communities that are predominantly one nationality or the other, and don't use English as their primary language. It's commonplace in large American cities now, and I believe the xenophobia shown in articles like the one you linked to will one day die out just like racism will. Hopefully that author's children won't be as offended by the Spanish spoken and the "Caribbean" appearance of the poor that happen to live near their farmhouse.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

He flew F-106's. Actually, he flew F-102's. Far more dangerous.

A common mistake. F-106's were a follow-on development of the F-102.