Adult education

[Fluffy]

Returning to education for adults really worth it?

Are adults who flunked school first time only kidding themselves by going back to school again? Is it best to start with a few basics study programs or aim higher and try something new? Do you think less of somebody who returns to education?

Whistler.

[bug_girl]

i LOVE having adult students in my classroom. they are there to get an education, are are really focused on learning. they also have life experiences to share in class discussions that are very educational for the 18-21 yr old traditional students.
Typically adult students are A students.

[Fluffy]

Originally posted by bug_girl
i LOVE having adult students in my classroom. they are there to get an education, are are really focused on learning. they also have life experiences to share in class discussions that are very educational for the 18-21 yr old traditional students.
Typically adult students are A students.
Even those that came away from education with little to no exams?

[bug_girl]

sorry, don't understand the question. i can only answer from a USA, higher ed perspective. My experiences, which included quite a few students who were drop outs or had terrible highschool preparation, were uniformly positive.
only negative is that adult students can be kind of high maintenance in terms of demands for instructor time. that's because they want to KNOW. And that's ok by me.

[Brown]

I earned two university degrees, and then returned to the university more than a decade later as a full time student. I took something new, and it was one of the hardest subjects offered by the school. I graduated at the top of my class.

As a result, I was able to be far more "marketable" than I was before. My quality of life changed dramatically for the better.

Heck yes, it was worth it.

[Chanileslie]

I think it is always worthwhile. A person can choose to better themselves. Also, an adult who mayhap as a child did not do so well in school, now is able to focus better and may be able to learn more. I don't think anyone is ever a lost cause.

[MLynn]

Some of the most "together" people I've met were self-educated or had gone back to school for degrees, or just to learn something new. I say, "go for it" :)

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Whistler
Returning to education for adults really worth it?

Are adults who flunked school first time only kidding themselves by going back to school again? Is it best to start with a few basics study programs or aim higher and try something new? Do you think less of somebody who returns to education?

Whistler.

Well, as an adult who is going back to school I have to say that it is well worth it. For one, not all adults going back to school flunked out the first time. I, for example, did well in school the first time but due to circumstances in my life, never continued into college. A mistake to be sure, but one that I am remedying.

Secondly, I have noticed that there seems to be far less laziness and general screwing off by my fellow adult students than by the ones who are actually college age (though this is just my observation). I think it's because we are in school because we WANT to be, and are paying for the privelige, rather than because our parents demand it. I also think that the fact that we have been out in the real world, of work, where a deadline is a deadline and you are judged on results rather than effort, that makes us a little better to cope with the demands of college coursework than some younger students.

Just my two cents.

[sackett]

And adults who enroll in college or university are 100% guaranteed to be motivated.

I'm of the opinion (you knew I'd give you my opinion) that higher education is really not for the young, certainly not the often very young kids who arrive as callow freshmen. Why, I ask, are they expected to go to college and be successful at it? How many of them can concentrate at that age? How many of them have any clear idea of what they want to study? How many of them are any better than griping pains in the neck in a classroom?

Good old Winston Churchill said that youth is the time for adventure. He said, in effect, Young people! Now is the time to see the world! Now is the time to travel, to rough it, to challenge your capacities! You will never be better prepared for it!

I don't remember college as much of an adventure; it felt like a job most of the time -- and as for graduate school! omigod! that airless, lightless, subterranean half-existence! I think I survived it by making myself artificially old; a sad waste of life.

But if society and my own instilled expectations had been different, if it had been all right to put off college until, say, the age of 30, wow! what a difference!

[Loon]

As an adult who is going back to school soon (just how soon and what exactly for are up in the air...), I can't say I see a problem with going back to school.

If you botched high school or whatever, the best way to make up for it is to go back and get all the fun knowledge that you never got the first time. Hell, you could go get C's geometry and konw it better than I do (I got A's 12 years ago) because it's fresher. There's no reason not to go back- you're going to be X years older with or without the education.

Brown, your story gives me hope.

sackett, I wish I'd talked to someone like you when I was 18.

[Oleron]

Originally posted by Brown
I earned two university degrees, and then returned to the university more than a decade later as a full time student. I took something new, and it was one of the hardest subjects offered by the school. I graduated at the top of my class.

As a result, I was able to be far more "marketable" than I was before. My quality of life changed dramatically for the better.

Heck yes, it was worth it.

Well done Brown, it's good to hear this.

Is it not a bit of a risk though?
It could have worked out differently for you if:
(1) You returned to full-time education and performed poorly.
(2) You graduated top of the class but employers refused to take you seriously because of lack of experience etc.

I suppose (1) is in your own hands but (2) has caught a few people out. I don't know much about the employment situation in USA but in Ireland experience is king. I know of 2 people who obtained good useful degree's in their youth, couldn't get a job commensurate with their qualifications and returned to University to become PhD's (one in biochemistry and the other in physics).
They returned to the job market only to find that employers were offering them the same jobs as before. The biochemistry guy is now working in a warehouse for hazardous chemicals - basically a storesman. The physics guy is working in a telecoms company, good enough job but irrelevant to his academic training.
What really irks these guys is that some of my other friends left school with virtually no qualifications, got menial jobs but after 10-15 years of solid plodding are now in middle to senior management.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking education. In fact quite the opposite, if anyones to blame it's the employers for not having the insight to spot potential.
I am also painfully aware that Irelands economy is only now progressing to a point where it can sustain a large number of high end jobs. Up until 10 years ago we were arguably a '2nd world' economy.
I'm just wary that you need to commit time and money to getting education and you need to check if the career you are pursuing values education more than simple time served.

[Brown]

Originally posted by Oleron
Well done Brown, it's good to hear this.

Is it not a bit of a risk though?
It could have worked out differently for you if:
(1) You returned to full-time education and performed poorly.
(2) You graduated top of the class but employers refused to take you seriously because of lack of experience etc.Gee, you almost sound like my parents. They supported my plan to return to school but privately had their reservations. When they saw how things turned out, they were very pleased that the gamble had paid off.

When I returned to school as an adult, I had a meeting with one of my former college deans, and he said something that I thought was pretty thoughtless. He said that I didn't have to be at the top of my class. Well, I don't settle for mediocrity, and I took this remark as a challenge. Maybe he didn't believe in me, but I believed in myself.

Besides, I got a good look at my classmates. I figured I was at least as smart as they were, and probably a harder worker and definitely more mature. So I thought I had a good chance to do well.

As I mentioned, my area of study was a tough one, and the vast majority of students wash out (i.e., they quit without getting a degree). My starting class had over 700 students in it, and my graduating class had just over 100. I knew the wash-out rate was going to be high, and I was determined not to wash out. After a couple of semesters, I realized I wasn't going to wash out, and that I would actually have a chance to set the pace for everyone else. And I came out on top.

I toyed with the idea of going back to the dean with my college transcript in my hand and rubbing his nose in it (but I didn't).

After I graduated, lack of experience was my biggest obstacle, but with a little persistence (and the help of a good head-hunter), I found something to my liking. My combination of degrees is so rare and valuable that some people were willing to look past my lack of experience. Now that I have experience, I could probably find a job anywhere in the country with little difficulty.

[cbish]

Whistler wrote:
Do you think less of somebody who returns to education?

I read an essay last year by John Erskine. The basic jist was; as a memember of a society, you have a moral responsibility to be as intellegent as possible.

So, to answer your question, I would say no.

My experience.
When I left high school, I had the grades to go straight to university but not the money. So I went to community college for two years and then transfered. It was a good experience. I was pretty immature out of high school and I probably would have flunked out of university once I discovered beer and realized they didn't keep roll. At the CC every class had a huge range of age. I was shocked to see people bring their children to class. I learned quickly to look for rings before I tried to smooze a girl. To be quite honest, I had to adapt quickly. They just weren't interested in the immature actions and attitudes of an 18 year old 'boy'.

When I transfered, I was again shocked and disappointed. I was back with a population of my peers who had not had the same experiences I had. They were still chasing each other down the halls and dog piling. It was definitely a regression. Other CC transfers I have spoken to have mentioned the same thing.

Grant it, I agree I would be a much better student now than I was then but I do think college is a young persons game. It's alot easier when you don't have responsibilities. It would be very difficult for me now and would be a strain on my wife and children. A former roommate of mine is currently at Purdue with his wife and two children. I see how they live their life compared with mine, and I don't know if I could do it.

[Oleron]

Originally posted by Brown
Gee, you almost sound like my parents.

As I get older I am definitely sounding more like my dad and I swore that would never happen!
Anyway, back to my pipe and slippers...

[Fluffy]

Originally posted by Brown
I earned two university degrees, and then returned to the university more than a decade later as a full time student. I took something new, and it was one of the hardest subjects offered by the school. I graduated at the top of my class.

As a result, I was able to be far more "marketable" than I was before. My quality of life changed dramatically for the better.

Heck yes, it was worth it.

You give me something to aim for. Not a degree I don't think I am as clever as you. I decided to go back to school and gain a proper education. I will give it my best shot. I'm starting at the bottom of the educational ladder and will climb each educational rung of that ladder as I can.

I will sign up for a class on Monday.

Thank you.

[sackett]

Originally posted by cbish
Whistler wrote:

. . . . but I do think college is a young person's game. It's a lot easier when you don't have responsibilities. . . .

Alas, you've identified a serious conflict: living a life fit for youth versus adult obligations.

Earlier I cited Winston Churchill, but in my enthusiasm I didn't cite him quite candidly. He was exhorting upper-class young Englishmen of the Edwardian era to go out and have adventures, not middle- or working-class youths of today -- much less rural proletarian hobbledehoys like me.

I still like the idea of putting in a few years of life before embarking on college if you can -- a big if for the poor, god knows.

Your community college experience sounds like mine. Let's all bless the CC system!

[cbish]

sackett wrote;
I still like the idea of putting in a few years of life before embarking on college if you can --

I agree. I think it depends on the maturity level. There are definitely high school students who are mature enough right now to attend college. I know 50 year olds who are perpetually 19.

In my case, it would have helped me to start a year or two later. I was on the young side of maturity at 18.

The thing is though, what are you going to do? If you enter the work force and start pulling down a pay check, then you're going to start buying crap; obtaining responsibility. Perhaps this is where the military comes in.My god-son is a high school senior & is very young. I suggested to his folks he do a couple of years in the military before embarking to school. In retrospect, I probably would have benefitted from this experience, then move on to college after my brain ripened.;)

[sackett]

What a subject line! I hope there's a door prize for the 1,000,000,000th. person to wish that!

Some German youths still embark on a Wanderjahr, either before college or after, or during it: a year or so spent seeing the world. I've encountered them as far away as New Zealand, bopping along with everything they possess in a gym bag, footloose, unfocused, grubby, happy (as far as you can tell with Germans), and temporary. They seem to be doing what young folks do best, when the world allows it. They aren't part of any workforce, unless they get a job picking fruit for a week or so; they're on vacation from responsibility; they seem to be making damn good use of their immaturity. Do I wish I could have done that? Do I envy them? resent them? You have no conception.

But if I had it to do etc., I'd enlist in the army at 18, earn some GI Bill, and then go to college -- exactly what many of the WW2 generation did. A few years of growing up aren't much of a postponement; hell's afire, once we've grown up, we're stuck with it!

[sackett]

Where I work in a college of engineering, we have an uncommon number of adult grad students -- VERY adult, grandparents in some cases. They're taking time out from successful careers (mostly in the automobile industry) to earn another degree. I like the idea of returning to college later in life, perhaps two or even three times. Most of us aren't autodidacts, and we need the classroom to help us learn; I'm not sure I fully trust a self-administered education anyway.

[Beanbag]

I used to be a programmer. Didn't have a degree in it, just knew how to cut code and make things work. Didn't like the fact that the technology changed completely every three years, and you would have to scrap a lot of what you'd developed. Plus, I could see what I called inshoring (the opposite of offshoring), where a company would actually import a group of programmers from another continent, house them cheaply, and pay them next to nothing to cut code.

So, when my technology base went stale and I had to go back to school, I went to watchmaking school instead. I got a degree in Horological Technology at the age of 42, graduated with a perfect 4.0 GPA, and went to work (eventually) for a major international jewelry company. I'm making more money now than I ever did as a defense industry tech or programmer, the industry's pretty much recession proof (time get bad, more expensive watches come in to get repaired; times get good, more expensive watches get sold and need adjustments), and since I work on only one brand, parts are not (usually) an issue. I made a conscious decision to go for the luxury market, where a cheap watch starts at about $2000 US. Work has never been slow, and the ridiculous import/export regulations mean that the work can't be offshored (they tax the watch both going out and coming back in, even if it's just going out for repair).

The bunch in watch school was a mixed bag. We had kids just out of high school who, just like me when I was in college the first time, spent more time partying than studying. Then, there were the folks like me, coming from another career. One guy just retired from the Navy after something like 25 years.

The "oldsters" were as a rule entirely focused on their education. They didn't accept the usual excuses from the college administrators, who were used to being able to buffalo high school kids. I told one records administrator (who had lost a transcript that I'd hand-delivered to her personally) that it was a good thing she had an academic position, because she'd never be able to cut it in the real world. The watchmaking and jewelry instructors all came from the industry, so what we learned was tight, focused, and always useful. Even the Applied Business Practices course (required) was useful. About the only "fluff" class I had to take was Business and Professional Speaking, taught by the Theater department, of all things. Even that had some useful content, and I made the experience enjoyable by determining what direction the instructor wanted the discussions to go, and deliberately steering the class in some other direction.

My personal opinion is that college is wasted on most people below the age of 26. I certainly didn't have it together before then. Society forces a four-year window of opportunity to get your education between 18 and 22. Anything after that becomes a lot more complicated. I was lucky that I had the resources available to completely unplug my life and move to where the watchmaking school was located in less than two weeks. If I had been married or had other responsibilities, it would never have been possible.

Regards;
Beanbag

[sackett]

Originally posted by Beanbag
. . . . I told one records administrator . . . that it was a good thing she had an academic position, because she'd never be able to cut it in the real world. . . .

Not just administrators, of course. I recall griping to a friend with long experience in academia about professors who obviously wouldn't survive anywhere but in a university. "Yes," she agreed, "they're already institutionalized."

I don't know that college is wasted on people under the -age- of 26, but it's probably of little use to people who lack the -maturity- of at least a 26-year-old.

[Fluffy]

I have signed up for some classes.

Basic English to start with and a basic computer course.

I have already been to my english class and learnt most people use the words licence and license, practise and practise wrong.

It is.
I have a car licence. I have am licensing you to do this.
I practised piano every night. The doctors practice is large.

It is not much but its a big step for me.:D

Whistler.